Jump to content

Sydney To Hobart 2018


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 3.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

OK...so I've nearly sobered up... and want to say a few things to the SA team that have followed the Voodoo story. Firstly  - Thank you for your support and input! From the outset I've put though

I was on shore for my live interview show, and then live with the ABC Grandstand radio for the start.  Channel 7 has full rights to all live vision - so there was really no point going on the wat

I have received dozen emails/private messages about my tracker for this year. I have updated to new Windy version and I hope it will work on boxing day https://gis.ee/sh/

Posted Images

1 hour ago, trt131 said:

It is amazing the number of WO haters out there that have already decided the protest (if there is one held) and already have decided the penalty (if any).  Just because you read it on the internet does not make it true.

You giving Shang a tutorial on the RRS I find very funny. I also find hilarious that many WOXI Fans automatically think anyone not a WOXi Fan is a WOXI Hater. Keep me laughing pinhead.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Can someone supply a direct link to said rule for AIS, I've looked everywhere on the CYC Hobart Docs pages & nothing apart from it must be onboard or something .... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, overlay said:

Believed being the operative word.

He could check Marine Traffic to confirm his belief

But it was the smarter answer. Turns around the burden of proof instead of admitting it outright. The same answer could be the saving grace for every other boat without working AIS, like e.g. Infotrack.

I don't know if AIS unit on sailboats have any selftest to make sure it's working correctly in both directions but what i gather from @jack_sparrow 's posts a technical problem is not far fetched.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, paps49 said:

That's interesting, Alive finishing ahead of schedule just dragged Itchi's finish window back from after midnight to 9.20pm.

Alive actually arrived a bit later than forecast all morning and Ichi has always been around 9.00pm in that period. Ichi never had a after midnight finish except from spot SOG and DTF's from Alive and or Ichi being a bit out of whack. Average out a few tracker results to get a better idea of handicap deltas.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Alive actually arrived a bit later than forecast all morning and Ichi has always been around 9.00pm in that period. Ichi never had a after midnight finish except from spot SOG and DTF's from Alive and or Ichi being a bit out of whack. Average out a few tracker results to get a better idea of handicap deltas.

I beleive you but Ichi was showing 1 am on the 29th most of this morning or am I looking in the wrong place? Time to beat in red, no?

 

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, paps49 said:

I beleive you but Ichi was showing 1 am on the 29th most of this morning or am I looking in the wrong place? Time to beat in red, no?

 

That was because the reference was from the boats that had finished.  That was the time to beat them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I'm sleep deprived and feeling fucked. Could be worse though..also smell, be salt encrusted, windblown and sunburnt.

But in that case you would have the benefit of knowing you did something!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

What it says. Course Over Ground.  The course is not the bearing. Bearing is direction the boat is pointing. Course is the direction the boat is going relative to the planet. They are not always the same thing, and understanding that is navigation 101 stuff.

Hmmmm - about navigation 101 - the direction the boat is pointed in is the heading.  Bearing is yet another thing.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, random said:

So I am assuming that the silence means that there is no issue between WOXI and the Race Committee.

Nothing to see here?

Remember a few years back when Ragamuffin broke the line and nothing happened?

Link to post
Share on other sites

"“You haven’t won the race if, in winning the race, you have lost the respect of your competitors.”

I wonder if anyone at Hamo or in the Oatley family cares about the loss of respect that comes from (everyone) knowing that the face of their "win" is ...uh... a little loose on little things like rules, sportsmanship, integrity....

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Marty6 said:

I don't know if AIS unit on sailboats have any selftest to make sure it's working correctly in both directions but what i gather from @jack_sparrow 's posts a technical problem is not far fetched.

First my comment on a technical problem being not far fetched was in the context of interweb AIS trackers recieving a signal due to output power loss via coax cable/connections. For a boats close by even with that power loss, a technical problem becomes a bit far fetched. Having a technical problem occur in Sydney Harbour with a myriad of AIS station recievers close by and 2 hours before the start off Bradley Head, the far fetched ratchets up.

Testing transmit and receive at sea is limited to receive only and if that is in order for a reasonable (max distance of say 15 mile on a 100') you can assume transmit is generally in order, in so far as any coax cable/connector losses may be involved. 

For a program like WOXI's every communication and data device/network would be properly tested before leaving the dock. In fact every program regardless of budget should be doing so, particularly those that utilise AIS PLB's. In the case of AIS and VHF sharing the same coax cable and antenna it would involve testing with a Power Meter to measure the forward power (from the device to the coax) and the reflected power (from the coax back to the device) with and without antenna. 

  .   

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Boatbeard said:

Yep, but it's a lovely way to lose your grip on reality... ;)

Clearly, I have much to learn.  Sunday party is when it all starts to get blurry for me...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Swanno said:

Remember a few years back when Ragamuffin broke the line and nothing happened?

Now that you mention it, yes.  But this is a little more interesting isn't it?

An OCS is an Oooops.   Switching off the transmitter is cheating.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

J Vila said he turned it on and believed it was on the whole race. Should have coached Ricko. Fucking cheaters. 

Source please I don't believe that is close to what he said.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, trt131 said:

SS I usually appreciate your comments on rules on this forum however in this case you have already made up your mind a boat is guilty of a breach without hearing any facts except a comment MR made when asked about their "tracker".  The AIS or any other equipment does not come under the Class Rules as this was not a Class event where there is a Class technical committee.  A Race Committee "may" protest a boat but it is mandatory.  It is amazing the number of WO haters out there that have already decided the protest (if there is one held) and already have decided the penalty (if any).  Just because you read it on the internet does not make it true.

People should read what is written, not what they think is written. That, or perhaps they don't understand all the actions of a Protest Committee.

One action of the protest committee could be to 'dismiss' the protest. The point I was trying to make (obviously not clearly enough for all) is that if it doesn't get a ruling then there will always be some who assume guilt. Assuming that guilt, even if not proven or ruled on, giving the "defendant", in this case WOXI no opportunity to prove their innocence.

There was a 69 case in Hong Kong a couple of years back where the boat retired and the case was dropped (the case book says it should have continued). That skipper is still called a cheat behind his back(I have personally heard people doing it). What these people fail to realise is that maybe he was/is but EQUALLY he never got the opportunity to argue and prove he was innocent - it cuts both ways.

To not follow the process is fair on no one.

And your statement "A Race Committee "may" protest a boat but it is mandatory" doesn't make any sense. May means they can but don't have to, mandatory means they have no choice.

I would not attempt to judge the result of any protest where I didn't have all the facts to hand (remember "Facts Found" is a vital part of the protest process) but I still say it would be best for all AND remove all the clutter and scuttlebutt. It would also certainly be more likely to show to the world that due process was being followed.

And "WOXI hater?" Most certainly not. I think what they have done with the old girl to keep her competitiveness against the young pretenders is remarkable and AIS on or off she still beat them all to Constitution Dock and for, I would reckon, a fraction of the cost. For any boat to achieve 9 (I think) line honours in a race where the conditions can vary as much as a RSHYC is worthy of note.

Anyway, it will be what it will be.

At the moment I am just hoping that Privateer can duplicate our finish of a couple of years ago (slipped to 5th at last look). Either way she looks to have a good chance of extending the Cookson yard's string of top 10 finishes over the past decade. More Cooksons have achieved a top 10 finish than the 100 footers over the last 10 years but a huge margin.

I would also NOT be un-delighted to see Chutzpah take the win. A popular boat & crew and would be good to see.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

To be fair that equipment lives in Vila's part of the boat so perhaps he should be wearing more of the heat for this?

If it was switched off by "whoever", he is the one person who could not deny "knowledge" of it. He knows what happened.

 

2 minutes ago, overlay said:

Wild Oats XI navigator Juan Vila told the Daily Telegraph that he had turned the AIS on and believed the system had been on for the entire race, which could point to a malfunction.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/news/wild-oats-xi-wins-sydney-to-hobart-yacht-race-amid-drama/0be96e16-cf5f-4d2b-b9ad-dd75f1cfa28f

Interesting.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

And your statement "A Race Committee "may" protest a boat but it is mandatory" doesn't make any sense. May means they can but don't have to, mandatory means they have no choice.

SS, yep I missed a word there I should have said "but is not mandatory"

My comments about WO haters were not directed at you at all but it is amazing how many immediately jumped on the bandwagon.

I agree the best outcome would be a hearing then some facts can come out instead of the speculation that is swirling around the ether.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, overlay said:

Both Harburg and now Cooney have said they wont protest WO cheating. Both showed a level of dignity and sportsmanship sadly missing from

the Oatley camp.

I don't think it would be their place to launch a protest. The AIS is a safety device, not designed to aid competitors in making tactical decisions, rather to prevent collisions... that said, it has dual use. But Harburg and Cooney, although disadvantaged, have no leg to stand on in regards to racing. Just simply a compliance issue. I do firmly believe the race committee should look into it as it is a 'safety' compliance issue. The club has a 12 hour window to do spot inspections after the race and they should start with that. They have been made aware of the possible infringement, they should be made to act! If system is faulty, so be it, but if it was turned off as implied, the book should be thrown at them!

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn’t any protest have to prove it was intentionally switched off/not working?

There was a certain boatbuilder/champion sailor in the 80s/90s whose HF/SSB used to stop working in the Sydney Hobart. No position reports or weight off the rail.

Nothing happened to him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, lahana said:

But Harburg and Cooney, although disadvantaged, have no leg to stand on in regards to racing. Just simply a compliance issue. I do firmly believe the race committee should look into it as it is a 'safety' compliance issue.

Interesting concept. Competitors can't protest non-compliance with SI's, only the RC.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said Lahana.

 

And if they don't the interweb might just bite them on the arse.

2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Interesting concept. Competitors can't protest non-compliance with SI's, only the RC.  

Not maybe strictly can't just shouldn't have to.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, paps49 said:

If it was switched off by "whoever", he is the one person who could not deny "knowledge" of it. He knows what happened.

 

Interesting.

I also read the same statement by Vila in an earlier version of the abc.net.au article (the current one does not contain it). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, PITA said:

Clearly, I have much to learn.  Sunday party is when it all starts to get blurry for me...

Many live in that haze for the whole week...  A unique volunteer run event where everyone is partying together weather from a TP52 or a Castle 7.5  and anything between.  The racing still seems pretty serious but the vibe very non corporate...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Boatbeard said:

Many live in that haze for the whole week...  A unique volunteer run event where everyone is partying together weather from a TP52 or a Castle 7.5  and anything between.  The racing still seems pretty serious but the vibe very non corporate...

Ok, we get it you did a Lincoln Race, start a thread.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Interesting concept. Competitors can't protest non-compliance with SI's, only the RC.

There are plenty of things in sailing instructions that competitors can protest about, mark roundings, loose lifelines, not doing penalties etc. etc.  If its a rule it can be protested unless it is specifically stated that that item can only be protested by the RC.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bayboy said:

BJ and Comanche wont make a complaint as they were fairly beaten...

Very true so it is up to the RC to establish if the winner was legal just as in any similar Pro sport.

 

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bayboy said:

BJ and Comanche wont make a complaint as they were fairly beaten...

Well BJ has already made a public complaint, but make a protest you are correct. Maybe they are also being good citizens and protecting us all from a repeat of Richo's squeals from last year.   

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On a topic unrelated to the WOXI AIS controversy, I found the video coverage of the finishes so far to this race to be frustrating and disappointing. It appears that Nic was working for a couple of different masters (The RSH and herself?) and she was required to cover, out in the water, only WOXI's finish for an excruciatingly long period of time, while, meanwhile, there was a real race brewing behind Nic and WOXI between Comanche and Black Jack.  She then came abhors, now working for RSH as she explained to people who were apparently writing her on her Facebook page about why she sin't covering C and BJ out in the water. Then they appeared from around the corner, and she got them mixed up. Maybe I am spoiled by the recent excellent on board, from the air, and from the sea coverage of the VOR and Route de Rhum finishes, which were quite exciting. Not meant to be a knock against Nic, who is knowledgeable and personable,  and contractually bound to apparently multiple organizations, but the camera person;s shots were also out of focus, cut off heads of people on the boats during closeups and on shore interviews of the finishers. I went back and watched Channel7 (why does it show studio shots instead of on the water?, not to mention the commercials, previously noted; and why not use a split screen during commercials? ), abc, whatever sources I could find but it was sketchy and incomplete. This is a huge and popular event; why is the in race live coverage such crap?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

On a topic unrelated to the WOXI AIS controversy, I found the video coverage of the finishes so far to this race to be frustrating and disappointing. It appears that Nic was working for a couple of different masters (The RSH and herself?) and she was required to cover, out in the water, only WOXI's finish for an excruciatingly long period of time, while, meanwhile, there was a real race brewing behind Nic and WOXI between Comanche and Black Jack.  She then came abhors, now working for RSH as she explained to people who were apparently writing her on her Facebook page about why she sin't covering C and BJ out in the water. Then they appeared from around the corner, and she got them mixed up. Maybe I am spoiled by the recent excellent on board, from the air, and from the sea coverage of the VOR and Route de Rhum finishes, which were quite exciting. Not meant to be a knock against Nic, who is knowledgeable and personable,  and contractually bound to apparently multiple organizations, but the camera person;s shots were also out of focus, cut off heads of people on the boats during closeups and on shore interviews of the finishers. I went back and watched Channel7 (why does it show studio shots instead of on the water?, not to mention the commercials, previously noted; and why not use a split screen during commercials? ), abc, whatever sources I could find but it was sketchy and incomplete. This is a huge and popular event; why is the in race live coverage such crap?

I think you have a point - up to a point. The VOR coverage is/was excellent but they had OBRs, a custom built studio and editing suite and a budget to run all that.

They (VOR) have constantly raised the bar in terms of covering what is a difficult sport to cover and yes, I agree, we have been spoilt, Our expectations have been lifted.

And don't forget VOR had 7 boats to cover not 80+

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

On a topic unrelated to the WOXI AIS controversy, I found the video coverage of the finishes so far to this race to be frustrating and disappointing. It appears that Nic was working for a couple of different masters (The RSH and herself?) and she was required to cover, out in the water, only WOXI's finish for an excruciatingly long period of time, while, meanwhile, there was a real race brewing behind Nic and WOXI between Comanche and Black Jack.  She then came abhors, now working for RSH as she explained to people who were apparently writing her on her Facebook page about why she sin't covering C and BJ out in the water. Then they appeared from around the corner, and she got them mixed up. Maybe I am spoiled by the recent excellent on board, from the air, and from the sea coverage of the VOR and Route de Rhum finishes, which were quite exciting. Not meant to be a knock against Nic, who is knowledgeable and personable,  and contractually bound to apparently multiple organizations, but the camera person;s shots were also out of focus, cut off heads of people on the boats during closeups and on shore interviews of the finishers. I went back and watched Channel7 (why does it show studio shots instead of on the water?, not to mention the commercials, previously noted; and why not use a split screen during commercials? ), abc, whatever sources I could find but it was sketchy and incomplete. This is a huge and popular event; why is the in race live coverage such crap?

Thinking similar things.  If it wasn't for Nic we would have much less than we got I fear...  Nic was going off the tracker and RSH standings which at around that time fell over for many of us - so until the boats got close the standings showed C ahead of BJ and a big black sail in the distance looks like another big black sail until the boats get close...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, shanghaisailor said:

I think you have a point - up to a point. The VOR coverage is/was excellent but they had OBRs, a custom built studio and editing suite and a budget to run all that.

They (VOR) have constantly raised the bar in terms of covering what is a difficult sport to cover and yes, I agree, we have been spoilt, Our expectations have been lifted.

And don't forget VOR had 7 boats to cover not 80+

 

I understand that (re the VOR, SS). I am only talking about the coverage of the finishes by the media, not any of the during-the-race photography by the OBRs and the VOR studio. There were numerous helicopters in the air during daylight at the start and the finishes so far, and I imagine there are some boats as well as the start was well covered with the unfortunate advertisers interruption;  yet the best we could see was what Nic on a cell phone with a camera  person in a run about showed us,  and Channel 7s pathetic coverage? 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Boatbeard said:

Thinking similar things.  If it wasn't for Nic we would have much less than we got I fear...  Nic was going off the tracker and RSH standings which at around that time fell over for many of us - so until the boats got close the standings showed C ahead of BJ and a big black sail in the distance looks like another big black sail until the boats get close...

Agree. My point: with 80 plus boats, some International boats, billionaire owners, and millions of fans, this is the best the RSH can do?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Ichi NW of Cape Raoul doing <12kts with around 25nm to go and 2 hours 20 to do it in with breeze now due to die any time. The maths work, will the weather work.  

What is the tide doing at the moment?

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, hoppy said:

you guys are so fucking boring..... 

There's a fucking race still going on. 

Couta on Voodoo looks to have finished and I think realistically,  it is probably only Winning Appliances and Ichi who can knock them off 3rd on IRC. 

 The wind at Dennes Point and Hobart town has dropped from 14 to 8 since WOX went through and the trend looks to be continuing. This will slow WA and Ichi, but will it be enough for Couta?

 

race isover, WOXI won...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Total thread drift: I missed the Black Jack and Comanche live finish (such as it was/was not covered from the air/water) because I went to see the Peter Jackson movie of remastered WWI footage of the British/Australian./NZ soldiers; his grandfather was one,  "They Shall Not Grow Old." It was only showing in the US on Dec. 17 and Dec.27 (today here) and only in two theaters in town, only two shows per day. I don't know why.  He clearly spent a ton of money and a lot of time on the movie, and i don't know how he can recoup it with these limited showings, but it was interesting and well done.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

I understand that (re the VOR, SS). I am only talking about the coverage of the finishes by the media, not any of the during-the-race photography by the OBRs and the VOR studio. There were numerous helicopters in the air during daylight at the start and the finishes so far, and I imagine there are some boats as well as the start was well covered with the unfortunate advertisers interruption;  yet the best we could see was what Nic on a cell phone with a camera  person in a run about showed us,  and Channel 7s pathetic coverage? 

That's what I was meaning but not expressing very well. The VOR is a well funded (commercial) operation while the Sydney Hobart (Rolex apart) is rather more shoestring. 

And before I get any trolling on that statement, what I mean it is a yacht race run by a yacht club not an event that was backed by two large auto manufacturers with a media budget to match. As For "7" they are a commercial TV station which would only cover the event (budget wise) to the extent they would receive advertising returns to cover the cost.

Now if sailing had the sort of fan base soccer or Aussie Rules had perhaps "7" might provide (invest in) better and more comprehensive coverage.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would you bother going to Hamilton Island race week if WOX1 is racing or any other boat that Ricko or Vila are on. You would have to abide by the rules & SI's etc, but you would have to expect after this that you couldn't win or fare well in a protest.

My guess, Vila will be toast.

The sad part about it, like last year is that only the boat's name gets struck off, not the people.

The boat is being used like a hooker, spend money on her, fuck her and then walk away. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

So we have this boat race, boats finish, all the results are fed into a computer and  ... wal lah!

And the winner is ....!

Give me a fucking break!

I have won races on handicap and although I took the trophy, didn't feel a sense of achievement.  It's calculated, you can get lucky with the weather on the day.  Didn't feel like the best sailor.

Link to post
Share on other sites