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OK...so I've nearly sobered up... and want to say a few things to the SA team that have followed the Voodoo story. Firstly  - Thank you for your support and input! From the outset I've put though

I was on shore for my live interview show, and then live with the ABC Grandstand radio for the start.  Channel 7 has full rights to all live vision - so there was really no point going on the wat

I have received dozen emails/private messages about my tracker for this year. I have updated to new Windy version and I hope it will work on boxing day https://gis.ee/sh/

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31 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe I'm ignorant but the RO doesn't have exclusive rights to Sydney Harbour other than a Govt approval to start a race and enjoy a temporary maritime exclusion zone to conduct it in. 

Therefore it has nothing to sell or licence other than access to its own property be it interlectual or physical or that of competitors via the SI for the duration of the race.

Therefore anyone with the necessary capital could do their own production in competition to Channel 7 and air it via any means they like, including giving a rival TV channel a feed.

Didn’t many years ago we had 2 channels showing the start ? 

 

I thought it was chanel 2 and or Chanel 10 or 7.

 

It would be good to get back to the old days of putting in general interest stories and suction’s into the broadcast that also show the general public what’s involved in getting the boats to the starting line. Things like - let’s go shopping for the crew, - what’s the difference between the biggest / smallest boats on the inside, - what different tech tools do the big boats have compared to the little boats, - talk to the crews that have had to travel more distance to get to the race than the race itself etc. 

 

Chanel 7 could very easily run a 2 hr broadcast of the start and the general public could learn more about the sport and generate new sponsors for adds as well for future years.

 

just my thoughts

 

pulpit

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12 minutes ago, pulpit said:

Chanel 7 could very easily run a 2 hr broadcast of the start and the general public could learn more about the sport and generate new sponsors for adds as well for future years.

 

Same advertising time/revenue over two hours halves the adverts and when other than this & Cricket TV's are just about all turned off so no real revenue loss.

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8 hours ago, pulpit said:

Didn’t many years ago we had 2 channels showing the start ? 

 

I thought it was chanel 2 and or Chanel 10 or 7.

 

It would be good to get back to the old days of putting in general interest stories and suction’s into the broadcast that also show the general public what’s involved in getting the boats to the starting line. Things like - let’s go shopping for the crew, - what’s the difference between the biggest / smallest boats on the inside, - what different tech tools do the big boats have compared to the little boats, - talk to the crews that have had to travel more distance to get to the race than the race itself etc. 

 

Chanel 7 could very easily run a 2 hr broadcast of the start and the general public could learn more about the sport and generate new sponsors for adds as well for future years.

 

just my thoughts

 

pulpit

I have done just that before the start every year for the past seven........ 

9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe I'm ignorant but the RO doesn't have exclusive rights to Sydney Harbour other than a Govt approval to start a race and enjoy a temporary maritime exclusion zone to conduct it in. 

Therefore it has nothing to sell or licence other than access to its own property be it interlectual or physical or that of competitors via the SI for the duration of the race.

Therefore anyone with the necessary capital could do their own production in competition to Channel 7 and air it via any means they like, including giving a rival TV channel a feed.

The CYCA signed some sort of agreement for all visual rights about 12 years ago......... 

I risk getting sued going against them so I need the CYCA to get themselves out before I can do anything.... 

But yes letter stating that I should be doing more are helpful! The CYCA think they did a good job on social media this year, which they did..... but there is good/ok and great... so saying to do more social isn’t enough, they need someone who knows that they are doing :) 

10 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

The issue for Nic is the incumbent is a rather large media broadcast company. The amount of ads in the start coverage shows it is an important revenue stream for CH7.

The quality of the broadcast is irrelevant to them really, its just another contract.

So CH7 can outmuscle NIC anyday on bidding rights due to their database of punters paying for ads.

The trick I see is convincing CYCA that Nic could do the social media broadcast where 7 have the rights to the FTA broadcast . 

The Channel 7 social media footprint for this race was non existent.

This means you have a strong argument for a disruptor like Nic, but  CYCA willl have to force CH7 to drop the 'exclusive' clause in their contract to all video. This will only happen when the contract is renewed or retendered. 

I just wrote a letter to CYCA expressing the advantages  and impact I see that social media is playing to the sailing fraternity, and how I believe it complements the FTA broadcast  as we all have the FTA on as well. 

I also went onto say how social media can provide more engagement as it offers fill in and puff pieces throughout the duration of the race. There is no impact to FTA rights after the start until  the finish line.

 My 2 cents.

 

Edit: Nic, just remember that in every industry the innovator or game changer has always been from outside the industry. They might be an incumbent, but they are always too big and inflexible to adopt new technologies, in a lot of cases they never do.That's your secret to getting a foot in the door.

 

 

:) thanks - doing what I can! 

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36 minutes ago, sailorgirl218 said:

:) thanks - doing what I can! 

Nic, 

Lateral thought.

Start a social media campaign announcing new innovation using the S2H. The crux of it is you create a need for every average punter on Sydney Harbour to stream video to you.. They get paid if you use their video. Pay them a flate rate of $xx for very yy mins of video. You'd have dozens of people all willing to "send"their facebook live to you if there is a chance they can earn potentially hundreds of dollars.It would also improve the quality as if it ain't streamed,  the punter gets nuttin.

Announce as part of the campaign that $10K that will be paid out in total for the live stream at $ xx a minute used. It would be money well spent to have a veritable team of videographers all trying to outdo each other for good quality video to earn themselves a nice chunk of the money (paid out in the week after post proof of ownership). 

Design the whole campaign around this stream to AoSG someting, and ensure it's open to every punter out there in the spectator fleet and shore with a phone with a camera. Has to be dumb as dogshit for people to access and use, like Facebook Live. Don't do your own app unless there is no commercial option left.

 

Rob sits in a nice aircon office with a multi-tile display. The central website thingy everyone is streaming video to would need to be hashed out, but in essence Rob can pick and choose which video to flick to a set of 3 live broadcast channels.

Nic does her pre-race interview shore based stuff, then sits in a boat tearing around doing the live voice over and sailor talk about boats, tactics. She can see the 3 video sources Rob has up and running and can pick which one to suit her voiceover. 

You could even do this in competition in a way with CH7, but let's see it as a concept idea to impress CYCA  for now. (Which will be how high were the numbers of engagements of course) 

If Drones and more local video is available from NIc's boat, well all the better. 

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The copyright issue is horrid. I'm not a lawyer, but I have brushed against some IP issues in the past, and having a look around I don't think Nic has a hope without Channel 7 providing the lead.

It seems that if you run a sporting event copyright law covers your event. Even if it is run in a public space. There is a get out for fair use, and news, but if you are using it to make any sort of commercial use, you are in trouble. Nic has no chance as she is clearly professional. (She might be on the breadline, but being Sailor Girl is her life.) 

It gets even worse. Quite a few cities worldwide are enforcing copyright on images of the city. Sounds insane, but Sydney does this. If you want to take pictures or video of Sydney for commercial gain, you need to buy the rights to do so. In principle, commercial video of an event around the harbour needs a license from the Harbour Trust. If you get married on trust land around the harbour you have to buy the rights to do so.  $250. Part of the mess is that you have to provide evidence of public liability insurance (even to do your wedding photos you need $10million insurance cover.) If you want to do commercial video, film production or the like it escalates. I would expect Seven have paid up here.

But back to the race. Channel 7 have the rights to the RS2H up to and including 2020 and they bought the entire kaboodle. It includes "broadcast television and online, mobile, social and digital platforms, including global online rights and mobile rights to live stream."  I wonder if the race needs Seven's permission to run a Facebook page or Twitter stream.

Part of what Seven will insist on is that the CYCA enforce the copyright. Since Seven bought a license to it, they expect that they really do have exclusive rights. So anyone creating a commercial stream of competing content is considered to be violating the copyright held by the race organisers, and the race organisers will be expected to go after any violators. Not doing so would almost certainly violate the contract with Seven. The CYCA most certainly will play things very carefully. They might love what Nic does, but they rented their soul, and until the lease is up, Seven calls it. 

It seems that it is common for big media to buy all the rights, even if they have no intention of using them. Heck, they will buy up the rights and never use any of them. I deeply suspect that some very big media have bought the rights to some sports that compete with their mainstream sports with the intent of killing them off, by starving them of any future media coverage. The sports entity is thrilled to get the money, only to discover they have true a Faustian bargain. 

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1 hour ago, Francis Vaughan said:

t seems that if you run a sporting event copyright law covers your event. Even if it is run in a public space. There is a get out for fair use, and news, but if you are using it to make any sort of commercial use, you are in trouble.

Francis that "copyright" intrrpretation in effect says no one other than Channel 7 can cover the race from start to finish. However we all know that is not the case. Your reasoning is solid if the holder of any rights controls the "arena" for a sporting event. However last time I looked the CYCA and Channel 7 don't control Sydney Harbour on the 26th December (other than being afforded  a maritime exclusion zone) or anywhere between there and Hobart.

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7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Francis that "copyright" intrrpretation in effect says no one other than Channel 7 can cover the race from start to finish. However we all know that is not the case.

True. I'm just guessing a lot of this. No doubt anyone can do coverage for "news" purposes. There is good case law on that. Although one often sees the same footage with a little 7 logo in the corner. Clearly there are deals done, and probably a lot of quid-quo-pro between the channels. (I have observed this first hand when there was a bushfire that reached my property. The three commercial channels all had reporters and cameras, and they were all sharing everything, including a shot I took with my phone of a water bomber dropping water over me. One of them interviewed me and the rest just set up cameras next to one another and recorded. No-one batted an eyelid and it was clear this was SOP.) 

When the ABC cover the race later there may be some other deal done. Since we don't know what the terms of Seven's contract are we are not going to be privy to the boundaries of what they have control over. Maybe the contracted period ends sometime after the start. It isn't as if Seven take much interest after the start. They clearly focus on the concentrated spectacle of their logo leading the pack. 

But I think when it comes to commercial exploitation of the race outside of news and fair use provisions, the CYCA own the entire race, end to end. How they choose to enforce or control that is their call. Seven would appear to have bought rights to some but not all of that. I'm sure if asked they would say what part of the race is Seven's. 

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22 minutes ago, Francis Vaughan said:

  But I think when it comes to commercial exploitation of the race outside of news and fair use provisions, the CYCA own the entire race, end to end. Seven would appear to have bought rights to some but not all of that. I'm sure if asked they would say what part of the race is Seven's

My read is all Channel 7 have bought is not rights to the race, but only what the CYC can furnish them to help cover the race and that is exclusive access to their property or anything they have exclusivity to being their real estate, vessels, any data they have not put into the public domain and anything that is assignable such as access to competitors and their vessels via SI's. Outside that and which still leaves a lot of broadcast scope and opportunity, anyone could run in competition to Channel 7 in my opinion.

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8 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Nic, 

Lateral thought.

Start a social media campaign announcing new innovation using the S2H. The crux of it is you create a need for every average punter on Sydney Harbour to stream video to you.. They get paid if you use their video. Pay them a flate rate of $xx for very yy mins of video. You'd have dozens of people all willing to "send"their facebook live to you if there is a chance they can earn potentially hundreds of dollars.It would also improve the quality as if it ain't streamed,  the punter gets nuttin.

Announce as part of the campaign that $10K that will be paid out in total for the live stream at $ xx a minute used. It would be money well spent to have a veritable team of videographers all trying to outdo each other for good quality video to earn themselves a nice chunk of the money (paid out in the week after post proof of ownership). 

Design the whole campaign around this stream to AoSG someting, and ensure it's open to every punter out there in the spectator fleet and shore with a phone with a camera. Has to be dumb as dogshit for people to access and use, like Facebook Live. Don't do your own app unless there is no commercial option left.

 

Rob sits in a nice aircon office with a multi-tile display. The central website thingy everyone is streaming video to would need to be hashed out, but in essence Rob can pick and choose which video to flick to a set of 3 live broadcast channels.

Nic does her pre-race interview shore based stuff, then sits in a boat tearing around doing the live voice over and sailor talk about boats, tactics. She can see the 3 video sources Rob has up and running and can pick which one to suit her voiceover. 

You could even do this in competition in a way with CH7, but let's see it as a concept idea to impress CYCA  for now. (Which will be how high were the numbers of engagements of course) 

If Drones and more local video is available from NIc's boat, well all the better. 

Not possible because of the below. I am not able to stream ANY moving pictures live and there is an embargo until two hours after the start. 

7 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

The copyright issue is horrid. I'm not a lawyer, but I have brushed against some IP issues in the past, and having a look around I don't think Nic has a hope without Channel 7 providing the lead.

It seems that if you run a sporting event copyright law covers your event. Even if it is run in a public space. There is a get out for fair use, and news, but if you are using it to make any sort of commercial use, you are in trouble. Nic has no chance as she is clearly professional. (She might be on the breadline, but being Sailor Girl is her life.) 

It gets even worse. Quite a few cities worldwide are enforcing copyright on images of the city. Sounds insane, but Sydney does this. If you want to take pictures or video of Sydney for commercial gain, you need to buy the rights to do so. In principle, commercial video of an event around the harbour needs a license from the Harbour Trust. If you get married on trust land around the harbour you have to buy the rights to do so.  $250. Part of the mess is that you have to provide evidence of public liability insurance (even to do your wedding photos you need $10million insurance cover.) If you want to do commercial video, film production or the like it escalates. I would expect Seven have paid up here.

But back to the race. Channel 7 have the rights to the RS2H up to and including 2020 and they bought the entire kaboodle. It includes "broadcast television and online, mobile, social and digital platforms, including global online rights and mobile rights to live stream."  I wonder if the race needs Seven's permission to run a Facebook page or Twitter stream.

Part of what Seven will insist on is that the CYCA enforce the copyright. Since Seven bought a license to it, they expect that they really do have exclusive rights. So anyone creating a commercial stream of competing content is considered to be violating the copyright held by the race organisers, and the race organisers will be expected to go after any violators. Not doing so would almost certainly violate the contract with Seven. The CYCA most certainly will play things very carefully. They might love what Nic does, but they rented their soul, and until the lease is up, Seven calls it. 

It seems that it is common for big media to buy all the rights, even if they have no intention of using them. Heck, they will buy up the rights and never use any of them. I deeply suspect that some very big media have bought the rights to some sports that compete with their mainstream sports with the intent of killing them off, by starving them of any future media coverage. The sports entity is thrilled to get the money, only to discover they have true a Faustian bargain. 

All above is completely correct, but the 7 copyright only covers the start. 

If you knew the full deal you would be as horrified as I am. 

Why I said above that I need your support while I am half in and half out so to speak. 

There is no way around it in the short term but to work with them.

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1 hour ago, random said:

What is the definition of 'the start'?  Is there a number of minutes before and after?

Surly you can quote the RRS about that? 

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16 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Surly you can quote the RRS about that? 

given the context that start is used in here , Ch 7 coverage , it is in fact a very good question .

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2 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Nic, I know its not possible at this stage, hence why I said treat it as sales pitch to CYCA.

Sorry if I didn’t read properly.

Also hard now as sharing information or advice on plans probably means that it will get taken off me and produced in house, like on the Big Boat Day, and now with the finish.... 

Our info is our only IP really, and the CYC is on a path to use their internal staff to replicate what they pick and choose alongside 7’s coverage. 

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At media briefings and at the race briefing we are told no live vision of anything to do with “racing” from the moment we are on the water at midday, through until 3pm. 

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3 hours ago, hoppy said:

For someone to run an unofficial stream of the race, they will have to film from outside the exclusion zone

No media boats are in the exclusion zone from 10 minute gun, maybe before. Media can travel along the boundary with either bravado or a permit from Roads and Maritime Services.

3 hours ago, hoppy said:

and a drone will have them in trouble with the police.

CASA governs drones. Commercial gain work need to be licensed and certified. If CASA treat Sydney Harbour as a restricted zone on the day (like an airport) you will need to make application for flight authorisation incl lodging risk assessment plan. Helicopter ditto.

Copyright is a legal right usually time limited that grants the creator of an original work exclusive rights to its use and distribution. The subject-matter must be expressed in a material form like a publication or recording. Copy right does not protect information, ideas, concepts, styles and methods. It only protects the expression of ideas  A musician automaticaly has copywrite the moment they put pen to paper. A Channel 7 broadcast would enjoy copyright. A Channel 2 broadcast would  enjoy copywrite and not collide with Chanel 7's copywrite. If CYC enjoy overarching rights in perpetuity via copywrite to determine who records and distributes something that is not yet created and then put on for free and in a public space I find interesting. There might be more bluff and bluster than substance here.

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26 minutes ago, sailorgirl218 said:

Sorry if I didn’t read properly.

Also hard now as sharing information or advice on plans probably means that it will get taken off me and produced in house, like on the Big Boat Day, and now with the finish.... 

Our info is our only IP really, and the CYC is on a path to use their internal staff to replicate what they pick and choose alongside 7’s coverage. 

Funny thing is SG the CYC do a horrid job of managing their online media. I wrote a Clarke and Dawe style sketch re the WOXI protest and posted it here. Just for fun I also posted it on the RSH FB page and it appeared there all be it briefly. Yesterday I posted it again but as a comment on another post. Its still there......621362617_RSHfacebook.thumb.JPG.9245db017ebab7ca92220fcf5a08a4db.JPG

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5 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

The way you keep bringing it up it would want to be the greatest written work ever posted to the internet.

Yeah, sorry it's the first thing I have ever written that's genuinely funny.

But it's also pretty funny it's still there no?

Edit. Have you read it? It's probably a bit local but many in here enjoy Clarke and Dawes stuff.

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^^^^ Hoppy, had a good chat with Matt Allen at Shippies and his assessment is that we've got at least a 15% improvement to be made based on our limited time & budget, while his assessment of his own program was 5%. Personally, I'd say the biggest area for upside for the Hobart was our helm time management....we suffered "Hobart syndrome" with helmsmen hanging onto the wheel too long and not rotating often enough.I also reckon our watch system was less than efficient - 6 hrs on, 3 off. As for the sail cross overs and polars...all good. I keep saying it - the secret is Adrienne C - not just her interpretation of the gribs, but her communication skills and collaborative approach to tactical input. I've been around awhile, but learned a truckload from her approach.

As to what happens with Voodoo, well there are suggestions that the Transpac would be a good event to target - but that's up to Hugh.....

In the meantime we'll be having a laugh and a few frothies at Geelong....

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Technically the watch system was 3 watches of 5 crew....3 hrs on, 3hrs standby (on deck), 3 hrs off. The reality was 6 hrs on, 3 off unless there was a sail change (all hands). The result was a race of attrition with all hands on deck from the morning of the 2nd day (approaching tasman to the finish)....personally I got by with very little effective sleep...couple of hrs at best. Not ideal.

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20 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

CASA governs drones. Commercial gain work need to be licensed and certified. If CASA treat Sydney Harbour as a restricted zone on the day (like an airport) you will need to make application for flight authorisation incl lodging risk assessment plan. Helicopter ditto.

Fun fact, Sydney Harbour is always a restricted zone, class R? air space, this is due to the Airport pushing down the boundaries for the helicopters and sea planes. So drone flights over Sydney Harbour always require a flight plan and CASA approval, and thus a license! Seems hard core but there you are!

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8 hours ago, hoppy said:

If the official 50th Transpac shirt doesn't get Hugh wanting to race, nothing will.

 

M485412519.SKY-1_2400x.jpg?v=1545327673

 

It would be good if there is a bit of an Aussie invasion for the race.

 

I see there is already a record number of entries for the race, 90. Rio 100 will be racing, so it would be good if a few Aussie 100's make it. Only 2 TP52's. Plenty of scope for a few 60+ footers. 

 

https://yachtscoring.com/current_event_entries.cfm?eid=4758

I’m keen! 

Let me at it :)

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5 hours ago, hoppy said:

So you will cover the race if the organisers give you the shirt?

 

If you do cover the race, I expect you to be wearing the shirt for the start...

I need airfares, accomm, my manager to say yes, a sponsor and a shirt :) 

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5 hours ago, JonRowe said:

So drone flights over Sydney Harbour always require a flight plan and CASA approval, and thus a license! Seems hard core but there you are!

And last time I looked the CYC or their appointed broadcaster do not control airspace over Sydney Harbour on the 26th, much as they like to tell people they do by some copywrite cockwobbling.

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

And last time I looked the CYC or their appointed broadcaster do not control airspace over Sydney Harbour on the 26th, much as they like to tell people they do by some copywrite cockwobbling.

Just less likely to get drone clearance when the air is full of major broadcast helicopters.

Trust me - I tried this year to get a drone up.... 

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17 minutes ago, sailorgirl218 said:

Just less likely to get drone clearance when the air is full of major broadcast helicopters.

Trust me - I tried this year to get a drone up.... 

Putting aside say Rolex etc helo, either Channel 7 must have had a lot of helos up or god forbid, what scoundrels were buzzing around ignoring the CYC/Channel 7's copywrite?

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Here are some capital metro rating stats for Channel 7's One hour start coverage and by way of comparison the Cricket (Melbourne Boxing Day). Seems Hobart dropped out on their AIS.

Pretty good for a non-mainstream sport.

5 City Metro Total -  377,000 (856,000)

Sydney - 139,000 (197,000)

Melbourne - 82,000 (290,000)

Brisbane -  73,000 (166,000) 

Adelaide - 33,000 (97,000)

Perth - 50,000 (106,000)

https://tvtonight.com.au/2018/12/wednesday-26-december-2018.html

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4 hours ago, paps49 said:

Exactly, 7 have jumped the shark, so to speak. They know not what they have.

They know and they also know exactly how to cover it.

7 invented in-car footage and lead the world in putting cameras in race cars and beaming that live.

They know that the hobart is a difficult sport to cover that's why they do what they do. Year's of doing it and other sports has lead to the coverage we have today.

The public (non sailors) don't give a shit as long as they see who got out of the harbour first.

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3 hours ago, Feilberg said:

7 invented in-car footage and lead the world in putting cameras in race cars and beaming that live.

Correct except Channel 7 in conjunction with inventor whose name escapes me..late 70's? So good was it CBS got rights and had it NASCAR within 5 minutes. Stan Honey's stuff with AC is closest comparison I can think of.

 

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Correct except Channel 7 in conjunction with inventor whose name escapes me..late 70's? So good was it CBS got rights and had it NASCAR within 5 minutes. Stan Honey's stuff with AC is closest comparison I can think of.

 

My point is there's no point doing anything different in the coverage. It rates for an hour and no one really cares. 

To invest anymore would be a complete waste and the audience is so small it's never going to give a return.

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On 1/2/2019 at 3:30 PM, hoppy said:

A brief summary...

maxi blah maxi blah blah maxi blah AIS blah AIS blah... Many SA posters are like ch 7 with their focus.

 

Are you able to enlighten us as to why the live stream has become nothing more than ch7 and the usual culprits were shut out of streaming? I vaguely recall that for the previous race, both the CYCA and you streamed independent footage.

Ch 7 and the WO syndicate are bosom buddies.  From the WO webpage:
WO.jpg.08a65a5ebd7096319d5447efd54c91cb.jpg

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3 hours ago, Feilberg said:

My point is there's no point doing anything different in the coverage. It rates for an hour and no one really cares. 

To invest anymore would be a complete waste and the audience is so small it's never going to give a return.

Interesting.

Look at the viewing figures posted re Cricket and SH and then think about how little they spend on one v the other. Similarly with their excellent Supercar coverage as you say.

Your ideas re building an audience are certainly "refreshing" .

 

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35 minutes ago, paps49 said:

Interesting.

Look at the viewing figures posted re Cricket and SH and then think about how little they spend on one v the other. Similarly with their excellent Supercar coverage as you say.

Your ideas re building an audience are certainly "refreshing" .

 

Lol the audience has an attention span of the sea mark.

The total views are about the same as breakfast television which seems right.

 

 

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OK, if we accept that the coverage is just a "colour & movement" entertainment interlude exercise for the Free to Air masses, that still doesn't explain why there isn't a brilliant online delivery to compliment the Rolex sponsorship. 

Rolex & CYCA have the resources to provide a focussed package that would address the international sailing audience...but the deal struck with Ch7 appears to be the block....pretty questionable media rights management on CYCA's part.

Again, maybe Rolex are happy with their post production edited package that they flog to FOX and others....emphasising the elite nature of the sport (and their product)...something WS (and CYCA) is also happy to encourage.

As long as sailors are compliant and continue to accept this presentation of our sport....we'll continue to be used in this way. 

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1 hour ago, Couta said:

OK, if we accept that the coverage is just a "colour & movement" entertainment interlude exercise for the Free to Air masses, that still doesn't explain why there isn't a brilliant online delivery to compliment the Rolex sponsorship. 

Rolex & CYCA have the resources to provide a focussed package that would address the international sailing audience...but the deal struck with Ch7 appears to be the block....pretty questionable media rights management on CYCA's part.

Again, maybe Rolex are happy with their post production edited package that they flog to FOX and others....emphasising the elite nature of the sport (and their product)...something WS (and CYCA) is also happy to encourage.

As long as sailors are compliant and continue to accept this presentation of our sport....we'll continue to be used in this way. 

The rolex footage normally comes out a few weeks after the race. They do a nice job of it and they have full control unlike live feeds.

I'm sure you'll get your 30 seconds of fame.

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Couta it's not a spectator sport. If you follow the race you follow the data. Tracker and standings.

Can you imagine how boring onboard footage would be. You'd hear winches movin and see the sails.

If you want to be a rockstar you should try the americas cup 

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3 hours ago, Couta said:

OK, if we accept that the coverage is just a "colour & movement" entertainment interlude exercise for the Free to Air masses, that still doesn't explain why there isn't a brilliant online delivery to compliment the Rolex sponsorship. 

Rolex & CYCA have the resources to provide a focussed package that would address the international sailing audience...but the deal struck with Ch7 appears to be the block....pretty questionable media rights management on CYCA's part.

Again, maybe Rolex are happy with their post production edited package that they flog to FOX and others....emphasising the elite nature of the sport (and their product)...something WS (and CYCA) is also happy to encourage.

As long as sailors are compliant and continue to accept this presentation of our sport....we'll continue to be used in this way. 

Offshore racing, like sex, is really only interesting for the participants. But there are plenty of short films showing both available on the interwebs I am told.

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20 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Here are some capital metro rating stats for Channel 7's One hour start coverage and by way of comparison the Cricket (Melbourne Boxing Day). Seems Hobart dropped out on their AIS.

Pretty good for a non-mainstream sport.

5 City Metro Total -  377,000 (856,000)

Sydney - 139,000 (197,000)

Melbourne - 82,000 (290,000)

Brisbane -  73,000 (166,000) 

Adelaide - 33,000 (97,000)

Perth - 50,000 (106,000)

https://tvtonight.com.au/2018/12/wednesday-26-december-2018.html

The general public only watch the Hobart start hoping for a train smash. The Australian Cricket team have that covered this year. I listened to the start on ABC radio during the cricket lunch break. (fuck having a TV on the boat) It was pretty good. 

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50 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

The general public only watch the Hobart start hoping for a train smash. The Australian Cricket team have that covered this year. I listened to the start on ABC radio during the cricket lunch break. (fuck having a TV on the boat) It was pretty good.

I don't know that they are hoping for a train wreck. Given there hasn't been one so far is not suggesting good odds. I get the impression that many punters find a bit of a zen like quality in the coverage that suits a Boxing Day vegetative state. (Goes with the cricket.) Amazing how many experts in offshore sailing suddenly appear around a BBQ. Reminds me of the AC. For a few days (or in this case, hours) there is a sudden interest in things sailing on the water. A certain familiarity in the event, big thing with a 7 logo, and a few other nice big boats with funny names. It panders to the Aussie conceit that we are a first rate water loving nation. 

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4 hours ago, Feilberg said:
4 hours ago, Feilberg said:

Couta it's not a spectator sport. If you follow the race you follow the data. Tracker and standings.

Can you imagine how boring onboard footage would be. You'd hear winches movin and see the sails.

If you want to be a rockstar you should try the americas cup 

The rolex footage normally comes out a few weeks after the race. They do a nice job of it and they have full control unlike live feeds.

I'm sure you'll get your 30 seconds of fame.

Really? Thanks for that update...and here I was after a lifetime of playing the game at virtually every level (yeah I had my chances at AC status and tampered with the 5 rings circus) thinking I was in a mass spectator sport....so thanks for setting me straight...and me a marketing man...can't believe I didn't pick up on this sooner!

The point I was making is that it's the sponsors who dictate the medium...and the message. For Rolex it's about associating it's product  with "elite performance". In our game that WOXI and Comanche...the biggest, fastest and richest. The rest of the fleet give them some context...that's it. Coverage is commensurate with brand association. 

As long as CYCA (and WS for that matter) are happy to take the money from Rolex, our sport will be presented to the mass public as "Elitist". 

My question is....Is that what we want? Is it in the best interests of the sport (or the event)?

What do the sailors actually get from a Rolex sponsorship?

Personally, I don't think that sailing being viewed as elitist is going to attract more people to the sport....and in that respect Rolex (and WS) are damaging the participation at grass roots level.

At the very least, its clear that the Sponsors and event owners are actively preventing any coverage that risks undermining the "Elite performance" message....keeping the event "On Brand"....last thing they want is for coverage of an "everyman & everywoman" accessible event!!

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2 minutes ago, Couta said:

Really? Thanks for that update...and here I was after a lifetime of playing the game at virtually every level (yeah I had my chances at AC status and tampered with the 5 rings circus) thinking I was in a mass spectator sport....so thanks for setting me straight...and me a marketing man...can't believe I didn't pick up on this sooner!

The point I was making is that it's the sponsors who dictate the medium...and the message. For Rolex it's about associating it's product  with "elite performance". In our game that WOXI and Comanche...the biggest, fastest and richest. The rest of the fleet give them some context...that's it. Coverage is commensurate with brand association. 

As long as CYCA (and WS for that matter) are happy to take the money from Rolex, our sport will be presented to the mass public as "Elitist". 

My question is....Is that what we want? Is it in the best interests of the sport (or the event)?

What do the sailors actually get from a Rolex sponsorship?

Personally, I don't think that sailing being viewed as elitist is going to attract more people to the sport....and in that respect Rolex (and WS) are damaging the participation at grass roots level.

At the very least, its clear that the Sponsors and event owners are actively preventing any coverage that undermines the "Elite performance" message....keeping the event "On Brand".

Ha nice!

If the RSHYR is not the elite level of offshore yacht racing i don't know what is. Maybe the rolex fastnet race. Could also be the rolex middle sea race.

Anyway even if you are racing a 7.4knt shitbox your doing that elite race and so it should be.

Not everyone gets to do a hobart or fastnet etc. It is at that level of our sport.

I don't know how you can get your vision across but if you've got the coin there will be someone willing to take it of you in pursuit of your vision. 

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19 minutes ago, Couta said:

As long as CYCA (and WS for that matter) are happy to take the money from Rolex, our sport will be presented to the mass public as "Elitist". 

Personally, I don't think that sailing being viewed as elitist is going to attract more people to the sport....and in that respect Rolex (and WS) are damaging the participation at grass roots level.

Couta you are not alone. The view that the CYC/Rolex/100' Club are doing exactly that and strangling the S2H is starting to get some traction, to the extent it was the subject of an article in a traditional broadsheet, The Australian last weekend.

There are more (100) on the wait list for this year's Fasnet than show up to a S2H and where there will be one 100' at best.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

 They should start the S2H like a pursuit start, with the start times calculated for all boats leaving the harbour at the same time.

It will become must see TV.... 

That and the vision of ambulances all rushing to Watson's Bay.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

They should start the S2H like a pursuit start, with the start times calculated for all boats leaving the harbour at the same time.

Surprisingly good ideas can come from unexpected directions sometimes.

And think how motivated everyone would then be to keep their AIS transmitters operating as the maxis thunder through the smaller boat fleet...

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12 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Couta you are not alone. The view that the CYC/Rolex/100' Club are doing exactly that and strangling the S2H is starting to get some traction, to the extent it was the subject of an article in a traditional broadsheet, The Australian last weekend.

There are more (100) on the wait list for this year's Fasnet than show up to a S2H and where there will be one 100' at best.

Fastnet is operating in a way bigger market and it's not an annual race so plenty of pent up demand and time to raise budgets facilitates entries.

And the idea that ocean racing isn't elitist at pretty much every level is laughable, Rolex or not.  Turning media and public attention away from 100 footers to say TP52s is hardly a move to sell the sport by showcasing the little Aussie battler.  Imagine what the Ichi Ban, Celestial, Zen or even Voodoo budgets were to do the race...  Even a 40 footer costs many tens of thousands to campaign in this event.  When did we last see any significant 6ksb participation in Sydney-Hobart?  Long gone.

 

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1 minute ago, DickDastardly said:

Fastnet is operating in a way bigger market and it's not an annual race so plenty of pent up demand and time to raise budgets facilitates entries.

And the idea that ocean racing isn't elitist at pretty much every level is laughable, Rolex or not.  Turning media and public attention away from 100 footers to say TP52s is hardly a move to sell the sport by showcasing the little Aussie battler.  Imagine what the Ichi Ban, Celestial, Zen or even Voodoo budgets were to do the race...  Even a 40 footer costs many tens of thousands to campaign in this event.  When did we last see any significant 6ksb participation in Sydney-Hobart?  Long gone.

 

Spies this year and credit to the aussie battlers that got a boat to the line. If you are going to race offshore ie. Bluewater point score, hobart is not that big a step up.

You can rent rafts, PLB and if you're doing the poverty pack the crew bring their own gear. 

Big one next year. Get involved

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

They should start the S2H like a pursuit start, with the start times calculated for all boats leaving the harbour at the same time.

Ch7 can give the small boats coverage as we watch all of the starts and just imagine what it would be like seeing Gunrunner approaching the final mark with the whole fleet trying to run them down.

It will become must see TV.... 

Call it Sydney Bumper Boats!

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51 minutes ago, Couta said:

Really? Thanks for that update...and here I was after a lifetime of playing the game at virtually every level (yeah I had my chances at AC status and tampered with the 5 rings circus) thinking I was in a mass spectator sport....so thanks for setting me straight...and me a marketing man...can't believe I didn't pick up on this sooner!

The point I was making is that it's the sponsors who dictate the medium...and the message. For Rolex it's about associating it's product  with "elite performance". In our game that WOXI and Comanche...the biggest, fastest and richest. The rest of the fleet give them some context...that's it. Coverage is commensurate with brand association. 

As long as CYCA (and WS for that matter) are happy to take the money from Rolex, our sport will be presented to the mass public as "Elitist". 

My question is....Is that what we want? Is it in the best interests of the sport (or the event)?

What do the sailors actually get from a Rolex sponsorship?

Personally, I don't think that sailing being viewed as elitist is going to attract more people to the sport....and in that respect Rolex (and WS) are damaging the participation at grass roots level.

At the very least, its clear that the Sponsors and event owners are actively preventing any coverage that risks undermining the "Elite performance" message....keeping the event "On Brand"....last thing they want is for coverage of an "everyman & everywoman" accessible event!!

Fuck all this crap - what we really want to know is - were the bundy jugs handed over at Customs House?

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23 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

Fuck all this crap - what we really want to know is - were the bundy jugs handed over at Customs House?

Yes but couta wasn't there so little box with the best "business at the front, party at the back" mullet took it. If i recall correctly he was pretty keen on the cups of tea at the time. I'm sure couta knows where that and the other thousand cups of tea ended up that night lolz.

 

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1 hour ago, Feilberg said:

Spies this year and credit to the aussie battlers that got a boat to the line. If you are going to race offshore ie. Bluewater point score, hobart is not that big a step up.

You can rent rafts, PLB and if you're doing the poverty pack the crew bring their own gear. 

Big one next year. Get involved

Signed up already

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1 hour ago, DickDastardly said:

Fastnet is operating in a way bigger market and it's not an annual race so plenty of pent up demand and time to raise budgets facilitates entries.

And the idea that ocean racing isn't elitist at pretty much every level is laughable, Rolex or not.  Turning media and public attention away from 100 footers to say TP52s is hardly a move to sell the sport by showcasing the little Aussie battler.

True Dick bigger market and bi annual. The point was  the Rolex branded events don't rely on a 100'er fest with the exception of the S2H. Therefore by default the smaller boats get a bit more time in the sun.

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@EddyAllTime


Only gave me 10 down votes today and that's the sum your activity on the site, well done mate.

I bet your Mom's proud as punch how her little Eddy turned out, bless her.

 

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25 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

True Dick bigger market and bi annual. The point was  the Rolex branded events don't rely on a 100'er fest with the exception of the S2H. Therefore by default the smaller boats get a bit more time in the sun.

Mate the hobart race doesn't give a shit if the 100s turn up or not. The race never relies on a couple of show ponies.

What you perceive is out of touch with reality.

The hundred footers ended up here because we have a series of races here that is attractive and as soon as Neville built Alfa Romeo / Shockwave 100 it was on. 

 

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4 minutes ago, paps49 said:

@EddyAllTime


Only gave me 10 down votes today and that's the sum your activity on the site, well done mate.

I bet your Mom's proud as punch how her little Eddy turned out, bless her.

 

Thats more like it Eddy get the whole load away.....doesn't that feel better?

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25 minutes ago, Feilberg said:

Mate the hobart race doesn't give a shit if the 100s turn up or not. The race never relies on a couple of show ponies.

What you perceive is out of touch with reality.

The hundred footers ended up here because we have a series of races here that is attractive and as soon as Neville built Alfa Romeo / Shockwave 100 it was on

 

Couldn't give a shit. Explain then why the CYC upped it from 80' to 100'?

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50 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Was there a smaller max length prior to 80, or was it the IOR maxi rating of 70ft

Never recall it smaller than max IOR rater after late 1960's then to IMS in 1990's. Increase I think was from 80 IRC to 98' in early 2,000's then 98 to 100' in 2009 to accommodate Shockwave and overseas boats to join the new WOXI.

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3 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

When did we last see any significant 6ksb participation in Sydney-Hobart?  Long gone.

 

Agreed, but is that not exactly because the focus has shifted towards the elite end of the sport?  There has been so much focus on the 100' ers and the millionaire/billionaire owners that all the average punter knows about the results is the line honours winner.  What chance does a 6ksb have for any glory or recognition?

Media hype has taken over the race.  The Fastnet, comparatively at least, has way less media coverage and the Caribbean 600 has effectively zero coverage outside the region.  Despite that, the C600 has still attracted ~70 entries this year including a few 30 something footers and quite a few 40 something footers. Only one superyacht this year and a couple of Maxi 72s make up the other end of the spectrum.  It is clearly not as respected and prestigious as the S2H but comparable in participant numbers.

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7 hours ago, Couta said:

My question is....Is that what we want? Is it in the best interests of the sport (or the event)?

What do the sailors actually get from a Rolex sponsorship?

So ...anyone want to have a crack at actually answering the question?

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

Seems strange they never rounded up and went straight to 100.

back in the IOR days I recall there was always interest in the pocket maxis as well as the maxis. I recall being a fan of the pockets but can’t remember any names of them. Freight Train or similar rings a bell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxi_yacht

Quote

The IOR had upper and lower rating limits of 16 feet (4.9 m) and 70 feet (21 m), so a yacht designed and built to exceed the maximum limit of 70 feet (21 m) rating was known as a maxi.

 

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36 minutes ago, Couta said:

So ...anyone want to have a crack at actually answering the question?

Some pretty nicely edited footage of the boat you were on / own to watch on YT when it’s boring at work & a Rolex watertight backpack. Two strappin’ not allowed. 

 

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

Seems strange they never rounded up and went straight to 100.

back in the IOR days I recall there was always interest in the pocket maxis as well as the maxis. I recall being a fan of the pockets but can’t remember any names of them. Freight Train or similar rings a bell.

Capping it at under 30metres = 98’ seemed more sensible to me but hey...

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11 hours ago, Feilberg said:

Mate the hobart race doesn't give a shit if the 100s turn up or not. The race never relies on a couple of show ponies.

What you perceive is out of touch with reality.

The hundred footers ended up here because we have a series of races here that is attractive and as soon as Neville built Alfa Romeo / Shockwave 100 it was on. 

 

I think Warro’s 100 was the first. But I stand to be corrected. 

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10 hours ago, hoppy said:

Before the 100's it was the 80's. It's a long time since the race didn't care about the "maxi" class.

That is true. Apollo, Bumblebee, Kialoa, Nivana, Windward passage, Ballyhoo, The Condors, the Biggest boats have always got the headlines. The press have always given them the lions share of the attention. Throw in a story about the smallest battler in the fleet, Syd doing his 243rd race and some hot chick doing her first race and that was the coverage. Apparently the general public have never been interested in a well sailed mid fleet boat. 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

That is true. Apollo, Bumblebee, Kialoa, Nivana, Windward passage, Ballyhoo, The Condors, the Biggest boats have always got the headlines. The press have always given them the lions share of the attention. Throw in a story about the smallest battler in the fleet, Syd doing his 243rd race and some hot chick doing her first race and that was the coverage. Apparently the general public have never been interested in a well sailed mid fleet boat. 

Until they win. 

 

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What you don't realise is the cyca absolutely understand the bulk of the fleet is your not the maxis it the other 75 boats, everyone knows it that competes or is involved in the race. 

Sure over the years that bulk mid fleet yacht has got bigger and more expensive thats life.

The only people making it all about the maxis is the media.

What did you expect?

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12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Couldn't give a shit. Explain then why the CYC upped it from 80' to 100'?

It was to bring it in line with the fastnet and rating rules of the time  time plus 98ft why? 100 is such a better number.

The upper limit now is above 30m but you can't race IRC.

if you've dropped 75 million euro on a 45m performance sloop and you're loony enough to do it, you can.

 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Throw in a story about the smallest battler in the fleet, Syd doing his 243rd race and some hot chick doing her first race and that was the coverage. Apparently the general public have never been interested in a well sailed mid fleet boat. 

I must admit, I do get upset these days not getting to read a story about how Grant Wharrington has once again had to sell the family home so he could afford to take his boat to Hobart.

 

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1 hour ago, Feilberg said:

What you don't realise is the cyca absolutely understand the bulk of the fleet is your not the maxis it the other 75 boats, everyone knows it that competes or is involved in the race. 

Sure over the years that bulk mid fleet yacht has got bigger and more expensive thats life.

The only people making it all about the maxis is the media.

What did you expect?

Wait. I didn’t realise that the CYCA understands that most of the fleet arn’t hundred footers? Good post. Are you channeling Randumb?

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59 minutes ago, Feilberg said:

It was to bring it in line with the fastnet and rating rules of the time  time plus 98ft why? 100 is such a better number.

The upper limit now is above 30m but you can't race IRC.

if you've dropped 75 million euro on a 45m performance sloop and you're loony enough to do it, you can.

 

We had Mari-cha on the line with us in the ‘99 race. They started 5 mins in front of the fleet. They were still getting in the way in the prestart. It was like a apartment building on its side beltching Gaulosises smoke from all the French rock stars on board. 

 

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31 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Wait. I didn’t realise that the CYCA understands that most of the fleet arn’t hundred footers? Good post. Are you channeling Randumb?

I don't even know who that is.

The cy is my club i think they do a great job.

The sailing office has plenty on but if you're a 10m boat or a 100fter you get the same treatment.

Hard but fair.

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2 hours ago, Feilberg said:

What you don't realise is the cyca absolutely understand the bulk of the fleet is your not the maxis it the other 75 boats, everyone knows it that competes or is involved in the race. 

Sure over the years that bulk mid fleet yacht has got bigger and more expensive thats life.

The only people making it all about the maxis is the media.

What did you expect?

Oh really? I didn’t get that impression when they couldn’t get me off the phone quick enough, with pretty much a fuck you on the way out. 

 

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2 hours ago, Feilberg said:

I don't even know who that is.

The cy is my club i think they do a great job.

The sailing office has plenty on but if you're a