Jump to content

Who really believes tariffs are good business


Recommended Posts

Just now, Olsonist said:

Yes, China sucks Australia dry and they pay world prices for the stuff they buy. We invade Iraq to the tune of a couple of trillion and we pay world prices for the oil we buy. I'm a little confused but it seems like China came out ahead in that.

We have a lot of iron ore & coal to sell yet. In fact the environmental movement is a far greater threat to our exports than China is at this point in history.

China is also a growing purchaser of high quality foodstuffs from us. As they get richer, they're likely to buy more.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Wrong! Guess who's price went up? BOTH! I had a $10k budget.  the import was $7500, the domestic were $10k, so, I was going to buy domestic. The DOMESTIC is going up, estimate is 1

My biggest and quite real complaints about China are: their own protectionism their rampant IP theft As for globalism itself, that ship sailed quite awhile ago. The invention of

Agreed - the corporations probably didn't expect to get ripped off as they did, and no argument the Chinese have engaged in industrial espionage on a huge scale. Tariffing their products incorpor

Posted Images

6 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

We have a lot of iron ore & coal to sell yet. In fact the environmental movement is a far greater threat to our exports than China is at this point in history.

China is also a growing purchaser of high quality foodstuffs from us. As they get richer, they're likely to buy more.

FKT

We're agreeing. I'm saying (sarcastically, ironically, whatever) that you and China are acting like adults. We on the other hand are governed by idiots. Advantage Australia.

I'm a big fan of mercantilism. Neocon American Exceptionalism doesn't work. Shitstain isn't smart enough to be a Neocon but he is stupid enough to be an American Exceptionalist.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Olsonist said:

We're agreeing. I'm saying (sarcastically, ironically, whatever) that you and China are acting like adults. We on the other hand are governed by idiots. Advantage Australia.

Yeah I know.

I'm active on another forum top-heavy with manufacturing types in the USA. It's amazing what some of those people believe about tariffs.

Well, believed. At least a few have seen the light when the domestic manufacturers of steel, aluminium et al price-matched the new tariff increases. We told them that would happen but they didn't believe us. Nett result, less sales, end users/consumers take it in the arse and the Govt pockets the tariff money.

It's a win-win really. For someone.

I have the advantage of living through Australia's high tariff period and seeing what it did to us.

Still and all I have to say I approve of putting it to the Chinese because they *are* mercantilist bastards with no respect for IP or anything else they can get away with. Though they're also prepared to take a much smaller profit margin than USA companies are, it would seem, so they'd still eat your lunch in a lot of exported goods.

Our exports may take a hit in the short term if they have problems selling the stuff they make from it, but they really need to learn that playing 'heads I win tails you lose' has consequences.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tariffs are easy to believe in. They're the economic equivalent of Shitstain's wall and they're intended for the same audience.

I completely agree about China and IP. Funny thing is that SV law firms compliment the Chinese patent system. It could be that they just want the legal work.  I don't understand that right now but maybe eventually I will. I have noticed that a lot of big companies are exiting China as it's just not a level playing field.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tariffs can protect individual industries, and applied carefully targeted in order to not launch a trade war is the work of artists. 

 Trump is using them as a broad bludgeon, and he's probably making a mistake. 

 From the Chinese perspective they have a choice, fight like hell or knuckle under. The mistake Trump may be making is in viewing this in the same way he views negotiating with subs on a construction project. In the regular business world people regularly knuckle under IF they can still see a way to make a profit by doing so. It's a whole nuther games for political leaders. They regularly balk at losing face. 

 The Chinese will be strongly tempted to rationalize this as something that will undermine Trump's base. When the prices at Walmart jump 25% (and more) his lie that the Chinese are paying this tax will be exposed, and exposed to a key demographic of Trump's support. And Trump's position is already tenuous. 

How that demographic reacts is what they will be looking for. Trump is taking a huge gamble whether he knows it or not. His base forgives his lying because it irritates "liberals" and they have been conditioned into abject hatred of "liberals", so they actually like the lies. How they will react if they are faced with the fact that he's now lying to them? Imposing a tremendous tax increase on them while telling them he is cutting their taxes? The true cultists will certainly be able to ignore that, but how many of his supports have really drunk the Kool Aid? 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Tariffs can protect individual industries, and applied carefully targeted in order to not launch a trade war is the work of artists. 

 Trump is using them as a broad bludgeon, and he's probably making a mistake. 

 From the Chinese perspective they have a choice, fight like hell or knuckle under. The mistake Trump may be making is in viewing this in the same way he views negotiating with subs on a construction project. In the regular business world people regularly knuckle under IF they can still see a way to make a profit by doing so. It's a whole nuther games for political leaders. They regularly balk at losing face. 

 The Chinese will be strongly tempted to rationalize this as something that will undermine Trump's base. When the prices at Walmart jump 25% (and more) his lie that the Chinese are paying this tax will be exposed, and exposed to a key demographic of Trump's support. And Trump's position is already tenuous. 

How that demographic reacts is what they will be looking for. Trump is taking a huge gamble whether he knows it or not. His base forgives his lying because it irritates "liberals" and they have been conditioned into abject hatred of "liberals", so they actually like the lies. How they will react if they are faced with the fact that he's now lying to them? Imposing a tremendous tax increase on them while telling them he is cutting their taxes? The true cultists will certainly be able to ignore that, but how many of his supports have really drunk the Kool Aid? 

 

They might realize they are as expendable as everyone else.

Depressing stuff.........

Trumphausen by proxy.  :unsure:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shitstain is just using tariffs as an extension of his wall. This is purely for domestic political consumption. If you're rational and you're getting into a trade war with China, you need allies AND NOT A SECOND FRONT WITH EUROPE. There is no depth here. There are no layers of nuance. This is simply something he can watch on Fox News every night, knowing that his base is watching as well. And while we're at it, let's attack Iran!

Colbert had that term Truthiness, the quality of seeming or being felt to be true, even if not necessarily true. That we have a border and immigration issues gives the wall a certain truthiness. That we have trade problems with China gives tariffs a certain truthiness. But they're still monumentally stupid policies.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Olsonist said:

 I have noticed that a lot of big companies are exiting China as it's just not a level playing field.

 

It never was. The sad fact is, in a vast majority of cases, the Chinese didn't really steal the IP,  the US companies *gave* it to them in the pursuit of lower manufacturing costs there while holding their retail sale prices. Result, increased margin, greater profits.

In the short term.

Then the Chinese set up their own companies and used that IP to build competing products.

An idiot could have seen that coming, lots of people did, but you know, quarterly profits were great, bonuses were fantastic.

Too bad about things 5 years down the track.

Now they're finally wising up that the IP is worth a lot (and Chinese promises are worth zero), maybe they'll keep high tech manufacturing a lot more tightly held. At least then the Chinese will have to engage in bona fide industrial espionage instead of violating licensing agreements & patents WRT IP handed to them on a plate.

So yeah, one could make a case for tariffs, but the way Trump has gone about it is idiotic. Tariffing Canadian aluminium for example.

China has a list of US products lined up for increased tariffs now. Going to be interesting seeing Trump's next move. Could be a lot of cheap made in China stuff for sale for the rest of us.

FKT

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Olsonist said:

If you're going to compete against China in the Pacific, you will need something like the TPP. If you piss off and on allies then they'll turn towards China who is if nothing else a consistent and reliable trade partner. Or you can trust your boy Shitstain. He seems like a completely stable genius. Or maybe this guy, or his son.

image.png.86dee1d96df1811ce835b64a5cf1ad8d.png .   image.png.c99e63d7bcaf67e41396c829b0fb11ac.png

The bolded part is a pretty good summary of the Koch-$pon$ored propaganda that I posted. Naturally, I agree.

The rest is back to your normal pattern of abject cluelessness as a basis for gossip about me. .

Link to post
Share on other sites

A regrettable answer to the topic question:

Both US Senators From Florida
 

Quote

 

...

Still, perhaps the best indicator of how bad trade policy is encouraging more of the same is the fact that farming lobbyists are now asking for more protection from foreign agricultural goods, even as the same industry is pushing the Trump administration to end the trade war with China.

"President Trump's drive to raise tariffs on imports has shifted money from the pockets of consumers to the profits of producers in the manufacturing sector—notably steel, aluminum, and autos," write Gary Clyde Hufbauer, and Euijin Jung, researchers at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, a trade policy think tank. "These actions have now inspired farm state lawmakers, in alliance with local agricultural producers, to seek their own barriers, raising the price of tomatoes, bell peppers, blueberries, and other produce."

They point to two things. First, the Trump administration's decision last week to end a decades-long deal with Mexico that effectively raised tariffs on imported tomatoes. As I wrote last week, this means that the juicy red fruits coming across the southern border will now be subject to a 17.5 percent tariff. More than half of all tomatoes consumed by Americans come from Mexico, and the new tariffs could result in a price increase of as much as 85 percent, according to an analysis from Arizona State University. These changes will also jeopardize jobs in Arizona in order to protect farmers in Florida.

 

Second, there's a bipartisan proposal from Sens. Bill Nelson (D–Fla.) and Marco Rubio (R–Fla.) that would allow the executive branch to impose new import duties on Mexican-grown blueberries, bell peppers, and other produce if American growers complain about unfair competition.

"It would enable growers in a single region of, for example, Georgia or Florida, to raise national prices of bell peppers, blueberries, tomatoes, and other produce at a moment's notice," the PIIE analysts warn.

The rolling back of the free trade consensus in Washington is a sea change that goes well beyond the tariffs Trump has imposed on China, Europe, Canada, and elsewhere. Unfortunately, as this week has demonstrated, opposition to tariffs does not always translate into advocacy for free trade—but can easily morph into an argument for more protectionism, provided it's the right kind of protectionism.

There is no such thing, but as long as the president is determined to use trade policy to pick winners and losers, every industry has an incentive to try to be on the side of the winners.

 

That last sentence sums up why protectionist policy is a crony capitalists delight.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw the dumbest thing ever the other night.  The MSNBC panel called the tariffs a hidden tax on consumers. The expert's reasoning was that the manufacturer, exporter and reseller will all just pass the tariff along to the customer.  His exact words were "The chinese won't be paying the tariff, we will."

On the same network in a later segment they opined that the economy was not benefiting workers. The evil corporations were making too  much money and should pay higher salaries and tax. 

Predictably , this time no one said "The corporations won't be paying the wage or tax increase, we will"

liberals are hypocrites and stupid. I rest my case.

 

  • Downvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I saw the dumbest thing ever the other night....liberals are hypocrites and stupid. I rest my case.

I just saw something really stupid, too!  Dude, you don't seem to be thinking clearly.  Nothing is provable about "liberals" nor "conservatives".  Blah blah blah.  You have ~aptly named yourself.  More apt would be "Spouting Divisive Malarkey"

31 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:

That last sentence sums up why protectionist policy is a crony capitalists delight.

Attaboy, Tom.  No shit.  The thread title doesn't capture it all.  Good business for whom?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I saw the dumbest thing ever the other night.  The MSNBC panel called the tariffs a hidden tax on consumers. The expert's reasoning was that the manufacturer, exporter and reseller will all just pass the tariff along to the customer.  His exact words were "The chinese won't be paying the tariff, we will."

What's dumb about the truth?

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Sort of. I know of - because I worked for or with them - multiple corps where the Chinese illegally acquired information including US government funded research data. They'd have a local production requirement and steal the info when nobody was looking. They'd have someone who knew what he was doing go to work for a corp and steal all the info. They'd hack computer systems.Now - a bunch of this was because US management rubes assumed everyone played fair, and that the enemy was domestic. But the narrative that a majority gave them willingly is false.

Agreed - the corporations probably didn't expect to get ripped off as they did, and no argument the Chinese have engaged in industrial espionage on a huge scale.

Tariffing their products incorporating stolen IP or products based on factories producing knock-off copies is quite justifiable IMO. Let them scream. If US importers scream too, great, but they won't, they'll just pass the price increase on to the consumers.

Tariffing basic raw materials like aluminium is stupid. Especially if it comes from another First World country. That's just an attempt to gain a concession somewhere else (Canada) or protect domestic producers from their own inefficiency.

FKT

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Agreed - the corporations probably didn't expect to get ripped off as they did, and no argument the Chinese have engaged in industrial espionage on a huge scale.

Tariffing their products incorporating stolen IP or products based on factories producing knock-off copies is quite justifiable IMO. Let them scream. If US importers scream too, great, but they won't, they'll just pass the price increase on to the consumers.

Tariffing basic raw materials like aluminium is stupid. Especially if it comes from another First World country. That's just an attempt to gain a concession somewhere else (Canada) or protect domestic producers from their own inefficiency.

FKT

Yep. Hit them hard for IP. Stick them with a tariff for shitty enviro standards and even shittier labor laws. 

Doing it because you think the other party pays it, and it’s free money? Height of stupidity.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I saw the dumbest thing ever the other night.  The MSNBC panel called the tariffs a hidden tax on consumers. The expert's reasoning was that the manufacturer, exporter and reseller will all just pass the tariff along to the customer.  His exact words were "The chinese won't be paying the tariff, we will."

On the same network in a later segment they opined that the economy was not benefiting workers. The evil corporations were making too  much money and should pay higher salaries and tax. 

Predictably , this time no one said "The corporations won't be paying the wage or tax increase, we will"

liberals are hypocrites and stupid. I rest my case.

 

The Chinese don't pay the tariff regardless.  It is paid by the importer.  Then, of course, it is passed on to the consumer.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Chinese have done very well over the past 30 years with tariffs....as has Wall Street and the US elected leaders that sold this country down the drain allowing the current state to exist

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

For a totally selfish look at tariffs, Canada has dropped its 10% tariff on US-made boats. Works for me because we bought a boat in upstate  last fall just before all this nonsense started - yes tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum were for national security reasons. The tariff drop will save me the equivalent of US$6500. Yay!

You won't be hearing from me for six weeks or so. Heading to Antigua tomorrow with the admiral to help friends take their Jeanneau 40 to the Azores and Portugal. After that back to the GWN to bring my own into Canada.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

You won't be hearing from me for six weeks or so. Heading to Antigua tomorrow with the admiral to help friends take their Jeanneau 40 to the Azores and Portugal.

Actors say "break a leg" so is "break a keel" an appropriate sendoff?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/13/2019 at 10:07 PM, Olsonist said:

Shitstain is just using tariffs as an extension of his wall. This is purely for domestic political consumption. If you're rational and you're getting into a trade war with China, you need allies AND NOT A SECOND FRONT WITH EUROPE. There is no depth here. There are no layers of nuance. This is simply something he can watch on Fox News every night, knowing that his base is watching as well. And while we're at it, let's attack Iran!

Colbert had that term Truthiness, the quality of seeming or being felt to be true, even if not necessarily true. That we have a border and immigration issues gives the wall a certain truthiness. That we have trade problems with China gives tariffs a certain truthiness. But they're still monumentally stupid policies.

I think he believes the Chinese can be beaten into submission as easily as a drywaller at a large project. 

 What the Chinese believe? Most likely that they can not afford to lose face. It's a culture thing...and especially not to a baboon, and a baboon who is likely to be gone in two years. They can also rationally believe a temporary loss of exports carries a benefit. China is aware if a need to boost their domestic markets, being overly dependent on exports is a vulnerability, and a temporary glut will drop prices in China. They can also believe price increases in the US will lessen the chance Trump will survive the next election. 

 I'm at a loss as to how the Chinese could come to believe that they would wish to help Trump by handing him a victory. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know much about it.  I have not been to China.  My son and my ex have spent substantial time there.

I know a few facts.  They have more millionaires than exist in the USA.  They also have a lot of poverty and an aging population.

I believe it was brilliant for Tricky Dick to let them into the world of nations.

Perhaps if they gave little don a little sumpin sumptin ...  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hasher said:

I don't know much about it.  I have not been to China.  My son and my ex have spent substantial time there.

I know a few facts.  They have more millionaires than exist in the USA.  They also have a lot of poverty and an aging population.

I believe it was brilliant for Tricky Dick to let them into the world of nations.

Perhaps if they gave little don a little sumpin sumptin ...  

They have more English speakers than the US as well. They have more top 10% students than the US has students. Etc

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

They have more English speakers than the US as well. They have more top 10% students than the US has students. Etc

They have more cute girls than we have people . . . nearly 

Around 50 million of them study calligraphy 

Most of them are fine folks . . 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Costs of the Trade War

Quote

In dollar terms, the cost of the trade war is easy enough to calculate: The U.S. Treasury has collected about $18 billion in revenue from the tariffs Trump has imposed since June 1 of last year.

Heh. Calling tax revenue a "cost" will no doubt trigger a few people.

Other answers include businesses that took years to build and...
 

Quote

 

What have we lost in the trade war? Trust.

Between the heads of nonprofits that otherwise share a common goal of improving the lives of poor mothers and babies, but now wonder who is scamming whom. Between long-time allies like the U.S. and Canada. Between soybean buyers in China and farmers in the United States—people who never met each other and never will, but who trusted in the almost magical power of supply and demand to ensure both got what they needed, when they needed it, even on the opposite side of the world.

The president cannot be trusted not to lie about the most basic reality of his trade policy. Even after signing a trade deal with Mexico, Trump betrayed that trust with more tariffs. Why should China trust him? And what happens when a global superpower and a rising rival can't trust each other?

 

(With apologies for more Koch-$pon$ored Trump cheerleading, of course.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Those R senators have it rough, almost an entire lunch!

 

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) told reporters the party spent “almost our entire lunch” 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Those R senators have it rough, almost an entire lunch!

 

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) told reporters the party spent “almost our entire lunch” 

To be fair, their average lunch lasts about eight hours.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sean said:

Governing by National Emergency declarations again. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/447374-trump-plans-to-declare-new-national-emergency-to-impose-tariffs

Trump plans to declare new national emergency to impose tariffs

Sounds kinda Imperial.  Didn't we used to have a bunch of principled folks who objected to such things when President Obama acted like an Emperor?

Where'd they go?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure where they went but expect a tweetstorm, Marketplace is starting to refer to them as, wait for it, “taxes.” Doh!

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Larry Kudlow, 2016 -

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/06/06/politics/kudlow-trade-incalculable-damage-economy/index.html

“Lower tariffs equals lower taxes equals growth. In the 1930s high tariffs, Smoot-Hawley tariffs, equals high taxes, equals depression. It’s that simple. Too many Republicans on the campaign trail are flirting with protectionism. Trump is the worst, but he’s not the only one.”

He wants to stop trading with China. He wants to stop trading with Mexico. Lord knows who else he wants to stop trading with. These are huge trading partners of ours. There are political issues that need to be resolved, but you never cut off your nose to spite your face, do you? That’s what Trump is doing. Too many Republicans are flirting with protectionism. Protectionism is anti-growth, protectionism, protectionism led to the depression of the 1930s.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rat's ass said:

“Give us a protective tariff and we will have the greatest nation on earth,”  Abraham Lincoln  

The fake liberal dullards should be celebrating, only they aren't. :lol: 

 

Worst president in history- including Trump. Lincoln had a chance to get rid of the South and didn't.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rat's ass said:

“Give us a protective tariff and we will have the greatest nation on earth,”  Abraham Lincoln  

The fake liberal dullards should be celebrating, only they aren't. :lol: 

 

Sifting thru ancient texts to find words to promote an otherwise unsupportable position is bit like ... bible thumpers.

What is a “fake liberal dullard”? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Rat's ass said:

Your a funny little bigot with no balls. Maybe you should have been a comedian instead of an assclown. Seriously..:rolleyes: 

You realize that you sound mentally ill, right?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

You realize that you sound mentally ill, right?

People are mentally ill through no fault of their own.

The Rat is willfully stupid.

It's different.

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:
44 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

You realize that you sound mentally ill, right?

People are mentally ill through no fault of their own.

The Rat is willfully stupid.

It's different.

He could be both

-DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

He could be both

-DSK

His rambling non-sequiturs, his  obsession with Hillary  and other clearly delusional statements  (e.g. calling everybody a "bigot" when nothing bigoted has been said), all point to somebody grappling with an out of control pysch. pathology. 

He's like Nanny Govt was-- clearly sick in the head. I stopped seeing Nanny Govt as a venomous, hate filled wacko and started seeing a sick person.  Made me wish I could do something nice for him or get him some help.  Same with Dum-fuk-joe/Rat's ass-- the guy is clearly a gibbering crazy person.  Somebody needs to bake him some cookies or lasagna, maybe mow his yard-- do something for him, because he clearly is not well.  At any rate, first rule with delusional people is to wall off the crazy, so I'm putting the poor guy on ignore. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Clove Hitch said:

His rambling non-sequiturs, his  obsession with Hillary  and other clearly delusional statements  (e.g. calling everybody a "bigot" when nothing bigoted has been said), all point to somebody grappling with an out of control pysch. pathology. 

He's like Nanny Govt was-- clearly sick in the head. I stopped seeing Nanny Govt as a venomous, hate filled wacko and started seeing a sick person.  Made me wish I could do something nice for him or get him some help.  Same with Dum-fuk-joe/Rat's ass-- the guy is clearly a gibbering crazy person.  Somebody needs to bake him some cookies or lasagna, maybe mow his yard-- do something for him, because he clearly is not well.  At any rate, first rule with delusional people is to wall off the crazy, so I'm putting the poor guy on ignore. 

A lot of righties seem to have deep-seated social maladjustments (I'd suggest that almost all of them do). Their love of authority just for the sake of authority, and their obvious resentment of any social reinforcement, make me think that they've had to deal some rather bad stuff in their early lives.

We can see for example that a lot of Trump's mental problems stem from his lack of paternal approval, his father actually drove his brother to suicide. And Trump believed that being this kind of overbearing dishonest asshole is good..... and righties who want a punisher of a father-figure love him.

The fact that there are enough of them to forge a successful political party (with the assistance of voter suppression, packing courts, and serious voter apathy) is the disturbing thing about America. What they don't see, is that they are the product of the social changes in the US over the past 50 years that they despise and want to undo. If the standard of a relatively happy, relatively well-adjusted family life, with commensurate priorities, had remained the average, there wouldn't be so many hateful fuck-heads in the USA today.

-DSK

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

They have no shame. 

Mexico Agreed to Take Border Actions Months Before Trump Announced Tariff Deal

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/08/us/politics/trump-mexico-deal-tariffs.html

Excerpt -

The deal to avert tariffs that President Trump announced with great fanfare on Friday night consists largely of actions that Mexico had already promised to take in prior discussions with the United States over the past several months, according to officials from both countries who are familiar with the negotiations.

Friday’s joint declaration says Mexico agreed to the “deployment of its National Guard throughout Mexico, giving priority to its southern border.” But the Mexican government had already pledged to do that in March during secret talks in Miami between Kirstjen Nielsen, then the secretary of homeland security, and Olga Sanchez, the Mexican secretary of the interior, the officials said.

The centerpiece of Mr. Trump’s deal was an expansion of a program to allow asylum-seekers to remain in Mexico while their legal cases proceed. But that arrangement was reached in December in a pair of painstakingly negotiated diplomatic notes that the two countries exchanged. Ms. Nielsen announced the Migrant Protection Protocols during a hearing of the House Judiciary Committee five days before Christmas.

And over the past week, negotiators failed to persuade Mexico to accept a “safe third country” treaty that would have given the United States the legal ability to reject asylum seekers if they had not sought refuge in Mexico first.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

We can see for example that a lot of Trump's mental problems stem from his lack of paternal approval, his father actually drove his brother to suicide. And Trump believed that being this kind of overbearing dishonest asshole is good.....

Way back when Trump first came to prominence and it became clear what sort of lowlife he was I said that his father must have been a real piece of work to make him that way.

Apparently I was right.

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Way back when Trump first came to prominence and it became clear what sort of lowlife he was I said that his father must have been a real piece of work to make him that way.

Apparently I was right.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Tariffs were never going to happen. Pure distraction exercise. 

If His Lardassness were to be backed into a corner on this whole deal, he might have thrown caution to the wind (yes I know that is not an option) and imposed tariffs on Mexico, or Alberta, or Gondwanaland. There are no limits to this loon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump Says He’ll Raise China Tariffs If Xi Won’t Meet at G-20

Quote

 

Of the tentative meeting with Xi, Trump said: “We’re expected to meet and if we do that’s fine, and if we don’t -- look, from our standpoint the best deal we can have is 25% on $600 billion.”

Trump added: “If we don’t have a deal and don’t make a deal, we’ll be raising the tariffs, putting tariffs on more than -- we only tax 35% to 40% of what they said then they had another 60% that’ll be taxed.”

For some Chinese experts, this sounds again like a trick. "Trump wants to use maximum pressure to force China to come back to the negotiation table. And if there’s no meeting between the two leaders, Trump will put the blame on China," said Zhou Xiaoming, a former Mofcom official and diplomat.

If Trump carries out his threat to extend the 25% charge to all imports from China, it will start hitting vital communication tools and everyday consumer goods.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-10/trump-says-he-ll-raise-tariffs-on-china-again-if-xi-skips-g20

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

It appears “Tariffs” are the entirety of his international diplomacy and negotiating plan. 

Your Congress & Senate can take his toy away any time they have the balls to do so, so it's not all on him.

FKT

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
52 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

It appears “Tariffs” are the entirety of his international diplomacy and negotiating plan. 

Your Congress & Senate can take his toy away any time they have the balls to do so, so it's not all on him.

FKT

Congress certainly has their role as a co-equal part of the government (though, President Trump has made it clear he prefers to be more Imperial).

That said, we were told they guy is a master negotiator - a brilliant businessman.  All he knows is lying, bullying, and empty threats.

Sadly, there is a sizable portion of the US willing to overlook those traits because "Hillary was worse!" or "He makes Liberal heads explode!"

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Your Congress & Senate can take his toy away any time they have the balls to do so, so it's not all on him.

FKT

Congress is almost ready, but it seems the Senate has been Mitchified.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

And yet they stil support him...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rural-voters-tired-and-frustrated-with-trump-but-sticking-with-him/ar-AACLyQ7?ocid=spartanntp

They should just change the headline to "Trump supporters are still dumb as fuck."

As Ron White likes to say “you can’t fix stupid.”

Link to post
Share on other sites

Customs fraud is thriving thanks to Trump's trade war

Quote

 

Through the first four months of 2019, imports from China are down 12 percent from the comparable period last year — from $162 billion to $143 billion. Meanwhile, over the same period, U.S. goods imports from the world increased slightly from $804 billion to $807 billion.

That’s paltry import growth for a robust economy, but suggests that at least some of the goods, components and raw materials that U.S. retailers and manufacturers are foregoing from China can be sourced elsewhere. It may also mean that Chinese-made products are being transshipped and relabeled as originating in other countries. 

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/448205-customs-fraud-thrives-thanks-to-trumps-trade-war?rnd=1560365803

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of people used to believe tariffs are good business
 

Quote

 

...

A 2015 Monmouth poll found that only 24 percent of Democrats believed free trade agreements were good for the United States. But when Monmouth asked the same question last month, the pollster found that support for trade deals has risen to 55 percent among Democrats. The Pew Research Center says that 72 percent of Democrats believe the North American Free Trade Agreement has been beneficial for the United States.

...

 

So, uh, Dunce Cap Tip to Trump.

Biden and Harris seem to have noticed the change and reacted. Others are slower to change...

Quote

Other Democrats may have a harder time making that shift, particularly those on the party's left flank. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) has already published a trade platform that calls for more "Buy America" programs and, as Trump often does, criticizes America's trade deficit. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) has criticized Trump's steel and aluminum tariffs for not being protectionist enough, and she opposes Trump's NAFTA rewrite for the same reason. Both Vox and The New Republic have described her strategy as trying to "outflank" Trump on trade.

Trying to "outstupid" Trump on trade is a terrible idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Treasury Department Is Entrenching Trump's Nonsense View of Trade Deficits
 

Quote

 

Don Boudreaux, an economist at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, says the report's focus on bilateral trade deficits is "completely untethered to economic reality." In an interview this week with Reason, he compared the Treasury Department's scrutiny of bilateral trade deficits to astrophysicists giving serious consideration to a geocentric model of the solar system.

But such is the gravitational pull of Trump-style economic nationalism, which posits that trade deficits are proof other countries are taking advantage of the United States.

Peter Navarro, Trump's top trade advisor, argued in a recent Wall Street Journal op-ed that lowering America's trade deficit would boost growth. In fact, no such correlation seems to exist for other countries around the world. As I've previously written:

In 2017, for example, the United States recorded GDP growth of 2dogballs percent and ran a trade deficit of about $502 billion. But look at other countries that had similar growth rates. France grew at 2.16 percent but had a trade deficit of $18 billion. Germany grew at 2.16 percent too, but ran a trade surplus of $274 billion.

The same is true at the higher end of the growth scale. Ireland grew by 7dogballs percent and had a $101 billion trade surplus in 2017; India grew by 7.17 percent with a $72 billion trade deficit. It's also true at the bottom. Italy's economy grew by a mere 1.57 percent with a $60 billion trade surplus; the United Kingdom grew by 1.82 percent despite a $29 billion trade deficit.

 

But maybe the best evidence of faultiness of the Trump administration's view of trade deficits comes from the very Treasury Department report that's meant to bolster the Trump administration's worldview.

On the first page, the report highlights how the United States' trade deficit with China grew to a record high of $419 billion in 2018. "A key driver of this increase was a sharp decline in U.S. exports to China in the fourth quarter of 2018, a time when U.S. imports from China were sustained," the report says.

The fourth quarter of 2018, of course, is the first full quarter after Trump imposed two rounds of tariffs on Chinese imports—the first in July and the second, larger set in August—with the expressed intent of reducing America's trade deficit. The opposite occurred.

 

I'm as sorry as usual for posting more Koch-$pon$ored Trump cheerleading.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a cite from the link above

 

RCEP is seen as a mechanism for China to draft the rules of Asia-Pacific trade, following a US retreat from the region as it withdrew from another trade pact at the start of President Donald Trump's administration.
Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/protectionism-slammed-as-southeast-asian-leaders-rally-to-trade-pact-11653370

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rather than start another trade/tariff thread, here is some reasonable analysis of the Trump administration's trade policy approach, and the USMCA from a Canadian perspective.

"From NAFTA to USMCA and the Evolution of US Trade Policy" by Dan Ciuriak.

From bro-in-law's eco-think tank.  Not much there with which I would disagree...

Can you believe it?  Tariffs still don't make sense?  Neither does "weaponization" of relationships.

Enjoy,
b

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

I struggle to believe it's a coherent vision and I think the author spends too much time treating this product of Trumpworld as an actual vision; in short it's the oh so typical normalization of Trumps incompetence.

It's much, much more important to look at Trump as optics. Trumps selling an image of reindustrialization to the US people - he's selling the image of steel making. Whatever the foreign policy objectives if the goal is to re-industrialize the US why is there very little being done with in the US to support this goal? Similarly if the goal is generational conflict with and containment of China - why is there so little being done to prepare for this inside the US?

Trump lives in a gilt world.    He cannot tell true alloy from pot metal with electroplate.   Of course there is no substance to his trade policy.    He’s a little terrier that barks at everything,    By accident he occasionally barks at a thief instead of the Mailman.    He does nothing to help protect the Amazon package, at worst the thief accidentally steps in some dog shit.  His base love to listen to him bark, and don’t think the shit smells.      

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump calls India’s tariff hike ‘unacceptable,’ demands its withdrawal

Quote

India slapped higher tariffs on 28 U.S. products following Washington’s withdrawal this month of key trade privileges for New Delhi. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/us-india-trade-donald-trump-on-indias-tariff-hike-on-us-goods.html

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Taxi drivers (actually GrabPay) here in Singapore think a trade war will be won by China. As they say, China has been poor recently and is not afraid. Are you?

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Taxi drivers (actually GrabPay) here in Singapore think a trade war will be won by China. As they say, China has been poor recently and is not afraid. Are you?

China media has for weeks and months said China can not win this trade war by compromise. They would rather take a big hit and suffer in the short term, but ultimately outlast the opponent. How would Xi suddenly u-turn on that? It's not going to happen. And now China revealed some of their trade war tools. For example accepting payments for exports in Euro only. Trump has nothing up his sleeve to deal with that, or has he???

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ato said:

And Singapore cabbies are always right!

I ALWAYS listen to what cabbies have to say. I will say that Sing is either in a slowdown or will be shortly based on cabbie-net. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Raz'r said:

trade war will be won by China

of course it will , Asians understand long term , as in decades .......

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, ato said:

What happened at G20? Xi made Trump do a deal?

From NZ Herald

US President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping agreed to a new cease-fire today in a year-long trade war during their meeting on the sidelines of a conference in Japan, averting, at least for now, an escalation feared by financial markets and the business community while negotiations continue.

Trump said US tariffs in place against Chinese imports will remain, but that new tariffs he's threatened to slap on billions worth of other Chinese goods will not be triggered for the "time being".

He announced US and China would restart stalled trade talks, saying, "we're going to work with China where we left off."

End

China will win this pissing match Donnie is simply making all the right noises for his retarded base who still believe they are winning..

They are much like mushrooms

Kept in the dark and fed bullshit

They love  it.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Will the Duopoly Limit Unitary Executive Power To Tax?

Not holding my breath waiting for that to actually happen.
 

Quote

 

A bill introduced this week by Sens. Tom Carper (D–Del.) and Tim Kaine (D–Va.), and Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D–Fla.) would place new limitations on two laws that currently allow presidents to unilaterally impose tariffs for supposedly "national security" purposes.

The legislation targets Section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962—which Trump invoked last year to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum imports under thinly justified national security grounds—and to tariffs imposed under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which Trump was intending to use against Mexico last month before backing down. Under the bill, presidents would retain the power to impose tariffs for national security reasons, but those tariffs would automatically lift after 120 days unless they receive congressional approval.

 

Or, on the 119th day, a new PANIC will emerge to threaten national security. Which seems a whole lot more likely to me.

Quote

The bill could be an important check against the White House's ongoing threats to hit imported cars and car parts with tariffs. The Commerce Department has provided the president with a framework for using Section 232 tariffs—by stretching the definition of "national security" to ridiculous lengths. Trump has so far declined to take action. Also noteworthy is Trump's seemingly out-of-nowhere announcement Wednesday that he could consider tariffs against Vietnamese imports.

Uh huh. And the same group who won't say there's anything ridiculous about a Cherry Blossom emergency are going to suddenly decide to stop abusing "emergency" powers?

Quote

The bill also provides an interesting political test for congressional Democrats, who have so far been content to criticize Trump's trade war without taking substantial action to stop it. Democrats on the campaign trail have also stepped up their criticisms of Trump's trade policies, but a recent survey by The Atlantic found that only one candidate (John Delaney) in the 25-person field favored getting America back into the Trans-Pacific Partnership—a good reminder that the political left remains as skeptical of trade as much of the Trumpian right.

Who's John Delaney? Someone that Dave Barry invented like Harvey Heckman?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh look - Trump doesn't like our exports of aluminium

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/trump-airs-concern-at-surge-in-australian-aluminium-exports-20190703-p523un.html

Now keep in mind that Australia is a high cost country, higher wages, better working conditions and at least as strong environmental laws as the USA. Plus we have a trade imbalance in your favour.

Yet Trump is still upset.

And some of you wonder why we think tariffs are simply a protectionist move with nothing to do with fair trade?

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Oh look - Trump doesn't like our exports of aluminium

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/trump-airs-concern-at-surge-in-australian-aluminium-exports-20190703-p523un.html

Now keep in mind that Australia is a high cost country, higher wages, better working conditions and at least as strong environmental laws as the USA. Plus we have a trade imbalance in your favour.

Yet Trump is still upset.

And some of you wonder why we think tariffs are simply a protectionist move with nothing to do with fair trade?

FKT

I’m not sure he even knows it’s protectionist. He was raised on a “those  who get paid more are winning” which of course doesn’t hold with global trade.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Spent 3 hours yesterday doing price increases again. 

So Trump tells me that China is paying the tariff on newly imported goods, then tell me why you and I are paying more for all of the old stock that gets a price increase too?

Another pay increase for Sol's best Americans. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Fat Point Jack said:

Spent 3 hours yesterday doing price increases again. 

So Trump tells me that China is paying the tariff on newly imported goods, then tell me why you and I are paying more for all of the old stock that gets a price increase too?

Another pay increase for Sol's best Americans. 

Of course China doesn't pay tariffs.  Tariffs are paid in the US by the importer.