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44 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I had to google “big ass paddle”, as I wasn’t sure exactly what you meant.  Couldn’t find any “big ass paddles” on Google, but Amazon appears to stock regular “ass paddles”.  Seriously.  Have a look:

https://www.amazon.com/Leather-Punishment-Spanking-Whipping-Products/dp/B01L37WPDS

This is purely a tongue-in-cheek post...oops... :-)

Haha, Lol! :-) 

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VOICEMEMO: UPDATE MARK #2 24-09-18 Hi all,  Another message from me on the boat Maverick. It have been incredibly heavy. I’ll talk you trough this bizarre storm from the start of it until now.

Incredible to see Gregor's boat still happily sending out position reports. Looks for all the world like it's trying to spell something ....

This very nice drawing of the 18 GGR boats that started today, was created by Jacques Taglang.

Posted Images

The old guy is getting tortured being on the left side of that Low with Slats below it pointing more north and going quicker . That Low will start contracting midweek leaving them a lot closer together and with initially a light easterly flow followed at weeks end with a High forming west of Gibraltar that will bring a Northerly flow across their race track. All in all a couple of weeks of weather the old guy could have done without.

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17 hours ago, Joakim said:

I don't think so. Yes you get only about 4 HP, but that is enough for 5 knots. E.g. in this propeller test Sun Odyssey 34.2 + MD2030 was tested at different speeds. At 5 knots the consumption was about 1 l/h. At 6 knots it was 1.4-2.2 l/h depending on the propeller. At 1500 rpm the speed was 3.5-5.1 knots and the autonomy 5.5-6.4 M/litre.

Max-Prop had one of the highest consumptions (1.2 l/h at 5 knots and 2.2 l/h at 6 knots). They sponsored a propeller for Mark. E.g. France Helices consumed only 0.9 l/h at 5 knots and 1.57 l/h at 6 knots. Folding propellers had clearly lower consumption than feathering ones. Is there room for a folding one in a Rustler 36?

34.2 is a bit lighter boat, but I wouldn't expect much more for a Rustler 36.

I don't have a Rustler 36 in my VPP, but Swan 37 (S&S) is not that far. It has 445 N drag at 5 knots. So it would need only 1.2 kW propulsive power. With 50% propeller efficiency that would be 3.1 HP at propeller shaft. That is in calm and with perfect hull finish.

Sounds about right. I have a Beta 28 in my 35' tank. Flexofold 2 blade prop. at 1200 rpm 4 knots, at 1800 rpm 5knots. Around a 1 L/h at 4 knots and not a lot more at 5knots. They it rapidly becomes a game of diminishing returns. 

 

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11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The old guy is getting tortured being on the left side of that Low with Slats below it pointing more north and going quicker . That Low will start contracting midweek leaving them a lot closer together and with initially a light easterly flow followed at weeks end with a High forming west of Gibraltar that will bring a Northerly flow across their race track. All in all a couple of weeks of weather the old guy could have done without.

Looks like there is a split occurring. I guess Heede thinks he is better off going for the long way round which should have better conditions and tack/gybe for his rig. Winds looking lightish for the next few days but there are a succession of systems slamming into Biscay/ Channel 

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How much do VDH and Slats know about each other? What is the ground team allowed to tell them about their competitors? During the last month they are not allowed to give coordinates from the tracker. Can they still give bearing and distance to a competitor? What about sog and cog? DTF?

Tactically quite a big difference if they know all that. E.g. will Slats follow VDH to west or try to keep closer to shore.

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Mark #Slats (via satellite) THINKING ABOUT RETIRING FROM IF I CANNOT WEATHER SAFETYFIRST /"Réfléchissant à me retirer si je ne peux pas parler météo sécurité en premier"

 

I wonder what he is really saying here? Has he received a message from race control restricting what he is allowed to receive on HF?

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29 minutes ago, spyderpig said:

I wonder what he is really saying here? Has he received a message from race control restricting what he is allowed to receive on HF?

An _unverified_ story since yesterday:
Dutch telecommunications authority has forbidden Slats for transmitting on ham radio frequencies as he is not a licenced ham radio operator and callsign he used is fake.

If so, his comment on retiring is questionable as he gets storm warnings from Don anyway and can still receive weather reports on ham bands if he has a team of licenced hams. It's always legal to receive ham communications.

Perhaps he run out of water.

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It was my understanding that once around the Horn Don McBoatyface was enforcing the no external assistance rule so weather forecasts only and no more positions of other boats or weather routing.

This would indicate some terse words. We will find out tomorrow as Heede and Slats on GGR FB live Wednesday at 1000 UTC

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6 minutes ago, Texcom said:

An _unverified_ story since yesterday:
Dutch telecommunications authority has forbidden Slats for transmitting on ham radio frequencies as he is not a licenced ham radio operator and callsign he used is fake.

That might make a few cruisers who have scant regard for rules sit up and take notice.

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

That might make a few cruisers who have scant regard for rules sit up and take notice.

So true

Quote

https://goldengloberace.com/day-198-mark-slats-closes-to-within-50-miles-of-vdh-in-nail-biting-race-to-the-finish/

...National telecommunication authorities have often turned a deaf ear to unlicensed operators using made-up call signs while at sea. But this may be coming to an end following a warning from one National regulator to a GGR skipper. They warn: “You use an amateur callsign and are making connections with amateur radio operators. The call sign letters are not registered, and thus illegal. I ask you to stop. If you have a legal amateur callsign then I urge you to present it”.

Fair warning both to unregistered GGR skippers and to legitimate Ham radio operators communicating with them. In Britain, the Ham Radio net is controlled by OFCOM, which recently revoked more than 500 licences for non-compliance. This includes communicating with unregistered Ham radio operators. The maximum penalty is 6 months in prison, a £5,000 fine and loss of their licence.

GGR skippers have been using this free communication system to gain weather forecasts and maintain contact with their teams, which is allowed under the Race Rules, It is the responsibility of each skipper to ensure that they abide by National and International regulations. Such transgressions may not affect the outcome of the Race unless broadcasts have included position reports of GGR yachts which are not allowed. Should that be proved, then skippers face an immediate 48 hour penalty for the first offence, followed by disqualification.

 

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3 hours ago, Texcom said:

An _unverified_ story since yesterday:
Dutch telecommunications authority has forbidden Slats for transmitting on ham radio frequencies as he is not a licenced ham radio operator and callsign he used is fake.

If so, his comment on retiring is questionable as he gets storm warnings from Don anyway and can still receive weather reports on ham bands if he has a team of licenced hams. It's always legal to receive ham communications.

Perhaps he run out of water.

He always has the option of using marine frequencies.  All he has to do is get his shore weather man to stroll down to a marina and borrow a HF set. 

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The responsibility for this entire communication catastrofuck rests squarely on the shoulders of the RO. Poorly worded sailing instructions, competitors penalised and in one case DSQ while rules are constantly made up on the go. We now have a case of Slats at races final weeks effectively shut out from having any weather information (assuming he hasn't marine sources at hand) to the finish. If he seeks to either contact or a acknowledge contact via HAM then he surely must penalised then DSQ?

In effect the RO in now trying to enforce something not enforced to date and clearly impacting on just one competitor. Interestingly the RO is enforcing an equipment usage provision, yet does not even have a HF radio at HQ.

This is on a matter that does not appear explicitly in the SI's and has clearly not been the subject of any pre race briefing, of which there were many. The underlying reason it has come about is total ignorance of the RO about the communication platform he put in place or what today's standard is. In fact it didn't even dawn on him untill the fleet was over half way around that competitor positions were being openly shared and transmitted. In terms of that adding to their safety percieved or otherwise, probably a smart and proper thing that they did.

The RO's NoR and SI's essentially drove competitors away from a marine network  where they are already appropriately certified and have a vessel call sign to a largely unregulated amateaur HAM network. This is away from the existing marine Digital HF network for both weather and SAR under GMDSS. A network not allowed by the RO as while the HF bit existed 50 years ago the digital bit didn't excite him as much as GoPro's.

This self endulgent fantasy that is more weird marketing plan than race should end at this edition. It has already put boats in number to the bottom, luckily with no loss of life though more luck than good management on his behalf. It has an disprortional SAR cost that others have paid for.

He should just fuck off.

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54 minutes ago, littlechay said:

He always has the option of using marine frequencies.  All he has to do is get his shore weather man to stroll down to a marina and borrow a HF set. 

Providing he is licensed, providing he takes the boat out of the marina to get good reception and probably at a ungodly hour to get decent propogation. Or he could take it home and run the risk of being caught for illegaly operating a ship station ashore and is a hefty fine and or jail time in some countries. 

Maybe yacht club or volunteer rescue crowd a better bet?

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I'm a bit lost. Mark Slats doesn't have a license for HF radio HAM frequencies? But he has a license for HF radio Marine frequencies? What about his shore team? What about other GGR entrants?

Why would he be penalized in GGR for using HAM? Does the NOR or the Sailing Instruction (are the SI online somewhere???) say something about a HAM license?

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HAM not mentioned in SI's. They are on GGR web site. Shore Team have HAM license, Slats doesn't. Mistake on his behalf. Boat will have a Marine Ship's Licence/ Call Sign. That would have been checked by RO  He would only get penalised by GGR if he was caught using HAM without a licence or getting positions of other boats just listening on either HAM or Marine Band.

RO obviously never checked HAM licences even though for other than boat to boat communications they are really forced to use HAM not Marine HF voice as those stations have all but disappeared (with use now of digital HF that they are not allowed to use) thus reducing scheduled marine recieve voice only weather forecast opportunities, especially non English speaking.

A circular story of dumbfuckery.

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You mention SI again. Have you seen it? I have tried to find it many times from the GGR web site, but can only find the NoR? Could someone give a link?

Slats has been communicating with his shore team for six months. If he doesn't have a license, why hasn't he been penalized already? What I can understand from the day 198 story on the GGR web site, GGR is not interested in the license. Just not receiving positions etc.

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NOR requires:

"Radio operator's license for all types equipment fitted, Radio Station License". According to that Slats should be penalized for just having a radio equipment without a license. Nothing to do with using it.

How can it have taken more than six months to notice this?

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27 minutes ago, Joakim said:

NOR requires:

"Radio operator's license for all types equipment fitted, Radio Station License". According to that Slats should be penalized for just having a radio equipment without a license. Nothing to do with using it.

 

How can it have taken more than six months to notice this?

It hasn't taken six months to notice this. I understand that it was widely known, at least by those who understand ham licensing. The Netherlands authorities eventually heard about it and ordered him to stop.

It is not unusual for some cruisers to invent ham callsigns, but I know of several shore stations on the ham networks who check the validity of callsigns calling in and refuse to talk to those faking it. This is to protect their own license. 

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1 minute ago, Joakim said:

I meant GGR/Don noticing a clear breach of the NOR. Likely he will give  no penalty. Or maybe he has known for a long time, but has kept low profile in order not to wake up authorities.

I don't think that it is a breach of NOR. He is surely licensed for the equipment installed on the boat. Most modern radio gear can transmit outside of the bands that it is licensed for. It is quite likely that Don doesn't understand HAM licensing and/or didn't know that Slatts had a made up call. 

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe yacht club or volunteer rescue crowd a better bet?

I don't know any such HF coast stations in Europe.

---
Slats sure can sail to France if he has water to drink. He gets stormwarnings from Don, he gets old school 2MHz MF voice weather and warnings from Canaries and Azores in English (perhaps not yet daytime coverage), he can make a HF call via Cape Town Radio(like VDH uses to do, I wonder if DSC is really forbidden) and if he has any idea of french numbers he gets weather for VDH (it's very clear and slow). His ham team can still transmit weather for him but he cant reply or ask anything.
He is complaining about...if he loses contact with hs hamteam he loses personalized weather forecast  Or he never had a personal ham team and lost already personal service by hams.

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29 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

French HAM operator saw the gap closing to the old guy and dobbed him in. :-)

Lol. Ham operators believe VDH neither has a valid call sign. The one his team uses when calling him isn't french and he doesn't use it himself but 'Jean-Luc'.

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9 minutes ago, Texcom said:

Lol. Ham operators believe VDH neither has a valid call sign. The one his team uses when calling him isn't french and he don't use it himself but 'Jean-Luc'.

LOL yep the French have a reputation for flouting the rules and their radio authorities don't seem bothered about it. It comes down to national administrators tolerance, and culture. 

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50 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

French HAM operator saw the gap closing to the old guy and dobbed him in. :-)

It’s a great conspiracy theory, one pushed by some of the unwashed landlubber mob in the GGR FB comments.  Old nationalistic rivalries of the Continent die hard!  Except that Slats isn’t a Limey, as some Frogs on FB thought... :-). 

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59 minutes ago, Texcom said:

I don't know any such HF coast stations in Europe.

---
Slats
He is complaining about...if he loses contact with hs hamteam he loses personalized weather forecast  Or he never had a personal ham team and lost already personal service by hams.

Surely he and VHD have had a personal weather routing service since the start and should both be disqualified from the race for cheating?

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55 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Surely he and VHD have had a personal weather routing service since the start and should both be disqualified from the race for cheating?

"I don't know any such HF coast stations in Europe."
Private, yacht club or volunteer rescue, like such stations in USA, Aus and NZ.


I prefer to see routing as an act of telling someone where to go. Personalized weather forecast as a forecast for areas the boat might sail.

Routing or weather forecast, it's not that easy.
We have seen several cases when routing didn't work well, even when given by RO, who can text to an entrant anytime.
A ham radio sched is usually once a day. Someone is trying to interpret by voice on a noisy HF channel non-perfect weather forecast model for a slow sailing boat.
Uku is a good example, he gets fine forecast and he is stuck waiting for winds.

Race? On a recent video Don called it 'Golden Globe Adventure' ;)

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GGRC ANNOUNCEMENT

We are in radio support team of GGRC surprised by fact of illegal HAM RADIO operation by Mark Slats  and resulting instruction by Golden Globe Race administration: 
https://www.facebook.com/goldengloberace/posts/2204442783142441

So, we have decided to check also validity of callsigns used by other GGR participants to make sure we do legal HAM RADIO communication to some of them. 

Uku Randmaa Golden Globe Race 2018 appeared to have valid Amateur License ES1UKU, issued by Estonian Telecom authorities.

However, when we checked validity of callsign J6LJV, used by Jean Luc Van Den Heede – we have got following reply from St Lucia National Telecommunications Regulatory Commission. 

CTO Mr. Alden St Clair has responded – “This call sign is not recorded in our database.” (see the copy of the correspondence attached)

This response of authorities means that HAM RADIO operation using callsign J6LJV by Jean Luc Van Den Heede during whole race was illegal. 

Therefore, we have to share this information to HAM RADIO community and also looking now for Golden Globe Race administration reaction to discovered facts.

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4 hours ago, Joakim said:

Mark Slats doesn't have a license for HF radio HAM frequencies?  What about other GGR entrants?

According to a ham chat it seems Igor, Randma and Lehinen have legit ham callsigns. They can't be sure of VDH(is not valid, check previous post by littlechay) and Kopar. Kopar used a hungarian callsign from the begin though. According to him also his HF transmitter is broken.

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Quote

https://www.facebook.com/goldengloberace/posts/2204554199797966

The HAM Call signs of Both Mark Slats and JL VDH were presented to GGR as valid call signs.at the start of the GGR to secure their Green Cards

I dont buy this. Several ham operators have told, Slats used his name as callsign and only started using callsign PI3MS late october or early november.

Well, both presented fake documents so I suggest an one hour penalty box below 20 South.

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11 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Are they dead yet? Shit sorry, wrong thread...

No.  Busted for illegal telecommunications!  :-)

Call in the ITU!  (Who has ever heard of the International Telecommunications Union before?  Few, I bet.). There’ll be a hanging (or a firing squad in Geneva, or wherever it is in Switzerland that the international airwaves bureaucrats reside...punishment: receiving and transmitting Morse Code weather broadcasts at 60 wpm...below 20N...for an hour...for each infraction... :-)

1E65B8A6-3516-4DE4-BD5F-2239C669BA60.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Things are just getting deeper and deeper in the vortex of stupidity. ......

They sure are. The entire concept for the race was retarded from the start. They should just have had AIS.

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1 hour ago, Texcom said:

Well, both presented fake documents so I suggest an one hour penalty box below 20 South.

I would Mad Don in a small box on Antarctica...oops he has already done that. Probably the root cause behind all this.

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36 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

No.  Busted for illegal telecommunications!  :-)

Call in the ITU!  (Who has ever heard of the International Telecommunications Union before?  Few, I bet.). There’ll be a hanging (or a firing squad in Geneva, or wherever it is in Switzerland that the international airwaves bureaucrats reside...punishment: receiving and transmitting Morse Code weather broadcasts at 60 wpm...below 20N...for an hour...for each infraction... :-)

1E65B8A6-3516-4DE4-BD5F-2239C669BA60.jpeg

Not to mention the CCIR

 

disclaimer - I was a Telecommunications engineer for a bit over 20 years in a previous life heavily involved in network planning and therefore spectrum management ... tedious but necessary stuff. 

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4 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Not to mention the CCIR

 

disclaimer - I was a Telecommunications engineer for a bit over 20 years in a previous life heavily involved in network planning and therefore spectrum management ... tedious but necessary stuff. 

Yes - quite necessary.  Without it, would be chaos for sure.

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4 hours ago, Texcom said:

I dont buy this. Several ham operators have told, Slats used his name as callsign and only started using callsign PI3MS late october or early november.

Me neither. The RO thought pre-race Ham was something you had on Xmas day.

Tex who is this Golden Globe Radio Club? Is it a HAM net someone instigated like Suzy but no longer in the race but was also being used by other English speaking contests? Bunch of HAM dudes who set out to make contestants life a bit more comfortable so they didn't go bananas?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2204554199797966&id=1751709878415736

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Me neither. The RO thought pre-race Ham was something you had on Xmas day.

Tex who is this Golden Globe Radio Club? Is it a HAM net someone instigated like Suzy but no longer in the race but was also being used by other English speaking contests? Bunch of HAM dudes who set out to make contestants life a bit more comfortable so they didn't go bananas?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2204554199797966&id=1751709878415736

 

Seems Russian; lifted from their FB page :-

 

Golden Globe Radio Club (GGRC)
Golden Globe Radio Club (GGRC) unites ham radio operators willing and able to establish radio communication to any vessel or expedition around the Globe, where are other means of communication are absent or not available, including emergencies and rescue situations.
Страница создана для общения людей, которые- интересуются радиосвязью с яхтами, экспедициями, путешественниками и т.д., которые хотят получать информацию из первых рук, сами используют радиосвязь в экспедициях и путешествиях,- будучи радиолюбителями, обеспечивают связь со своими друзьями-путешественниками, организуют мероприятия и экспедиции в труднодоступных местах нашей Планеты.
Contacts | Контакты: GoldenGlobeRC@gmail.com
Copyright | Права собственности на материалы. Reposting to other pages are allowed only as sharing of original post by Golden Globe Radio Club. Own description or comment can be added. All materials (text, images, audio, video, etc) from Golden Globe Radio Club can be used free of charges, but reference to the GGRC page https://www.facebook.com/GoldenGlobeRC/ must be provided, must be active and good visible.
Публикация информации на других страницах осуществляется только в виде репоста на оригинальный пост в группе Golden Globe Radio Club с собственными комментариями и/или описанием. Использование всех материалов (тексты, картинки, аудио, видео и т.д.) разрешено, но обязательно указание источника в виде линка на страницу группы https://www.facebook.com/GoldenGlobeRC/. Линк должен быть активным и хорошо видимым.
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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

French HAM operator saw the gap closing to the old guy and dobbed him in. :-)

Maybe new legislation just announced  in this field here made some office clerks look what was going on in practice and noted Slats;
500 pound fine awaiting him.
https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stcrt-2018-67906.html

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Good find. So Uku centric but they also follow adventure things other than just the GGR.

As Uku centric they are first to declare: "Uku Randmaa Golden Globe Race 2018 appeared to have valid Amateur License ES1UKU, issued by Estonian Telecom authorities. "

However, ham community knows better. Uku Randmaa got his callsign while sailing near Australia. He doesn't have any idea of basic ham communications, it's obvious he never passed a ham exam.
I suggest "Golden Globe Radio Club" immediately stops HF ham communications with him as he doesn't qualify as a ggr ham radio operator, according to NOR

Quote

NOR
REGISTRATION PACK by 27 th APRIL 2018. (Official Competitor)
Part 1: Skipper. A. First aid course certificate, B. Survival course certificate, C.
Signed medical test certificate and pathology results (FORM TBA 28th FEB. 2018), D.
Family doctor details, E. Marine Radio operators license, F. Ships Radio station
license and call sign, G. Ham license if applicable.

NOR 4.4 License
Each Entrant must hold all licences and registration certificates required by their
national authority (Shown on the yachts registration papers) including but not
limited to, Boat operators licence, Radio operator's license for all types equipment
fitted, Radio station License, EPIRB and PLB reg. certificates and Boat registration
papers. French Entrants do not need any FFV Licenses.

 

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1 hour ago, Texcom said:

As Uku centric they are first to declare: "Uku Randmaa Golden Globe Race 2018 appeared to have valid Amateur License ES1UKU, issued by Estonian Telecom authorities. "

However, ham community knows better. Uku Randmaa got his callsign while sailing near Australia. He doesn't have any idea of basic ham communications, it's obvious he never passed a ham exam.

How does one get a call sign “while sailing near Australia”?  And why is it “obvious he never passed a ham exam”?

I did do a quick callsign look up (qrz) and found nothing, but not sure if they’re are other sources for look up?

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

How does one get a call sign “while sailing near Australia”?  And why is it “obvious he never passed a ham exam”?

I did do a quick callsign look up (qrz) and found nothing, but not sure if they’re are other sources for look up?

Perhaps he got some kind of temporary licence to operate an amateur radio. (GGRC will tell us?). He didn't have any idea of ham frequencies, modes(basic stuff like USB/LSB) or how to call other ham radio operators. 

Some governments offer online list of valid ham callsigns.

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2 hours ago, Texcom said:

Perhaps he got some kind of temporary licence to operate an amateur radio. (GGRC will tell us?). He didn't have any idea of ham frequencies, modes(basic stuff like USB/LSB) or how to call other ham radio operators. 

Some governments offer online list of valid ham callsigns.

That’s odd after all this time (and I think Uku, or maybe it’s Tapio, is a marine surveyor so presumably pretty knowledgeable about marine stuff) he wouldn’t know about ham freqs, various modes, etc.  It also seems a bit odd to me that for a retro race, GGR wouldn’t require a ham license, but I guess that’s outside their purview, ultimately.

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17 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

 It also seems a bit odd to me that for a retro race, GGR wouldn’t require a ham license, but I guess that’s outside their purview, ultimately

Retro?? Jud they didn't use HAM in 1968 race or has it been in any significant ocean race I can recall. They used marine band frequencies in 1968. What would be their justification for requiring HAM today?

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15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Retro?? Jud they didn't use HAM in 1968 race or has it been in any significant ocean race I can recall. They used marine band frequencies in 1968. What would be their justification for requiring HAM today?

Oh, I just assumed ham freqs were used in 1768, er, 18, I mean, 1968.  (Why, specifically, would marine band freqs have been used, I wonder?  Probably because was no ham community of any size then that knew or cared...)

I hear Jeanne Socrates (currently) talking to hams here and there so I assumed that’s how it was done back then.

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47 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

 (Why, specifically, would marine band freqs have been used, I wonder?  Probably because was no ham community of any size then that knew or cared...)

Marine frequencies were sole source of vessel to land station and vessel to vessel communication including land station,(Govt, SAR etc) weather broadcasts then. Exactly that same arrangement exists today plus other means like satellite. The only difference between 1968 and today is with introduction of digital two way paging (DSC) to HF around 15 years ago, no-one is compelled to maintain a listening watch to HF voice transmissions anymore, be that land station or ship. Other than that identical.

Ham has nothing to do with the marine HF network. HAM non Govt,  is geeks in basements, some have big basements though. Would be less users today than 50 years ago is my guess. HF Radio antennas in suburbs were not a rarity 50 years ago. Interference by suburbia to transmission/receive quality, smaller house lots etc has seen their demise as well as user interest. Some Cruisers rely on HAM as cheaper sets, licensing cheaper etc. You can pick up HAM frequencies on Marine set. You can't get Marine on HAM set. Or if you can you can only transmit what you are licensed for. 

images (16).jpeg

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Oh, I just assumed ham freqs were used in 1768, er, 18, I mean, 1968.  (Why, specifically, would marine band freqs have been used, I wonder?  Probably because was no ham community of any size then that knew or cared...)

I hear Jeanne Socrates (currently) talking to hams here and there so I assumed that’s how it was done back then.

Jeanne is on her radio 24/7. I think she gets lonely at sea :) Back in the day nobody would have carried enough battery, or had the charging capacity, to support the amount of chat that she does.

 

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We have a sail boat race up front, with each playing to their strength: Slats going shortest route even though it will be upwind and VDH sailing more miles but going downwind to save his rig.  With the delta in the DTF under 100 miles, after 26,000 miles of sailing, these 5ktSBs are giving what they've got

Meanwhile, in the South Pacific, on the edge of the Southern Ocean, the Bendy Toy that came to the rescue for GGR is passing by the location where Suzie dismasted and VDH did his pitch pole.  Alizes II is Beneteau Oceanis 43 and his cruising buddy is is a Jeanneau Sun Fizz 43.  These Longue Route boats seem to be having far less trouble than the GGR designs.

Capture bendy toy.PNG

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It's interesting to run the tracker backward and see where the still-contending boats were a long time ago...

VDH has been leading since CoGH.

Slats has been in second since then also (as soon as Peche dropped out).

And Uku has been third among the boats still racing since then as well.

So the last time any interesting "racing" occurred among boats that are still racing was shortly after Tapio and Kopar rounded CoGH together.  They actually "raced' head-to-head very closely all the way to Cape Leeuwin, at which point Kopar finally broke away and got to Hobart first by a couple days.  I can't remember what held Tapio up.  That couple days turned into a massive advantage for Kopar because he got out of Hobart with decent tailwinds and by the time Tapio got to NZ, he was in a month-long upwind saga.

None of the boats still racing have changed position relative to each other since Kopar passed Tapio off Leeuwin.

No wonder the most interesting thing going on is discussion of the validity of their HAM handles.

The tracker might briefly show Slats "passing" VDH in the coming hours, but VDH should then get into some nice reaching/running conditions to extend his lead.  I still think that, barring breakdown by VDH or some new penalty, the interesting race now is between Uku and Kopar for third.  And I'm honestly increasingly interested in Tapio's saga with the barnacles, etc...  Really hoping he can get around the Horn without getting slammed, and then curious to find out a couple months later just how much food he brought along.

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28 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

So the last time any interesting "racing" occurred among boats that are still racing was shortly after Tapio and Kopar rounded CoGH together.  They actually "raced' head-to-head very closely all the way to Cape Leeuwin, at which point Kopar finally broke away and got to Hobart first by a couple days.  I can't remember what held Tapio up.  That couple days turned into a massive advantage for Kopar because he got out of Hobart with decent tailwinds and by the time Tapio got to NZ, he was in a month-long upwind saga.

Tapio was suddenly forbidden for cleaning barnacles, so barnacles were the reason Kopar broke away. Tapo also got a storm before Tasmania which slowed him. He sailed in and from Hobart(no motor or broken). While he was in Hobart, Susie and Kopar were waiting storm to calm down, Tapio has a chance but was too slow.

Kopar has reoccuring steering problems but it's very hard to know his actual situation (compare: he was running out of water for weeks), he isn't telling much. Uku is almost as mysterious.

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Marine frequencies were sole source of vessel to land station and vessel to vessel communication including land station,(Govt, SAR etc) weather broadcasts then. Exactly that same arrangement exists today plus other means like satellite. The only difference between 1968 and today is with introduction of digital two way paging (DSC) to HF around 15 years ago, no-one is compelled to maintain a listening watch to HF voice transmissions anymore, be that land station or ship. Other than that identical.

Ham has nothing to do with the marine HF network. HAM non Govt,  is geeks in basements, some have big basements though. Would be less users today than 50 years ago is my guess. HF Radio antennas in suburbs were not a rarity 50 years ago. Interference by suburbia to transmission/receive quality, smaller house lots etc has seen their demise as well as user interest. Some Cruisers rely on HAM as cheaper sets, licensing cheaper etc. You can pick up HAM frequencies on Marine set. You can't get Marine on HAM set. Or if you can you can only transmit what you are licensed for. 

 

Hold on.  What?

How could marine frequencies have been the only source of vessel to land station and vessel/vessel comms then — and that’s certainly not the case now.   I’m licensed (and definitely not a geek and not in a basement...don’t even have a basement in my seaside cabin  :-) ) for 3-30 megs and my ham radio —land and vessel-based— has been opened up and, yes, I know that only true emergency comms are allowed on marine freqs.  But surely 50 years ago anyone going to sea with a ham radio was communicating on whatever ham frequency they wanted (and those with marine radios did same on marine freqs)?

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8 hours ago, Applespider said:

I think it would be very amusing if Slats and VDH conspired to highlight the farce by agreeing to meet up and sail across the line together. Not least since I’m reasonably sure that GGR don’t have capability to organise a photo finish :P

Or even better, sail outside the marks that signify the line.....

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3 hours ago, littlechay said:

Meanwhile, in the South Pacific, on the edge of the Southern Ocean, the Bendy Toy that came to the rescue for GGR is passing by...These Longue Route boats seem to be having far less trouble than the GGR designs.

3 hours ago, tama_manu said:

 

That is a sacrilegious, heretical statement you are making.  You remember Galileo and other famous sacrileges committed throughout history, and the dire price they all paid?  Do you think it’s safe to speak your mind against the Mighty (and, now suddenly expensive!) Rustler 36?  :-)

Galileo:

Found guilty of heresy, Galileo was condemned to imprisonment rather than death.

He was given an opportunity to recant however, and not spend the rest of his life in a cold, dark dungeon cell. At the time, Galileo was already 70 years old and in poor health.  At his daughter’s urging, he agreed to recant. Wearing the robes of a penitent, he told the Inquisition that he “cursed any heresies which he may have espoused in the past.”

Galileo hoped his old friend Pope Urban would help him, and in the end, he did. Galileo was placed under house arrest rather than prison. Having avoided burning at the stake, one could say he got off with a mere slap on the wrist. He was forced to retire to his estate in Florence, a defeated and dejected man. Although in his own house, he could neither write, teach nor travel without the Church’s permission.  There he remained till his death.

The Catholic Church finally lifted the ban on Galileo’s works over a century later in 1758.”

https://paulwandrews.wordpress.com/2017/04/25/galileo-faced-science-deniers-in-the-catholic-church/

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37 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

That is a sacrilegious, heretical statement you are making.  You remember Galileo and other famous sacrileges committed throughout history, and the dire price they all paid?  Do you think it’s safe to speak your mind against the Mighty (and, now suddenly expensive!) Rustler 36?  :-)

Galileo:

Found guilty of heresy, Galileo was condemned to imprisonment rather than death.

He was given an opportunity to recant however, and not spend the rest of his life in a cold, dark dungeon cell. At the time, Galileo was already 70 years old and in poor health.  At his daughter’s urging, he agreed to recant. Wearing the robes of a penitent, he told the Inquisition that he “cursed any heresies which he may have espoused in the past.”

Galileo hoped his old friend Pope Urban would help him, and in the end, he did. Galileo was placed under house arrest rather than prison. Having avoided burning at the stake, one could say he got off with a mere slap on the wrist. He was forced to retire to his estate in Florence, a defeated and dejected man. Although in his own house, he could neither write, teach nor travel without the Church’s permission.  There he remained till his death.

The Catholic Church finally lifted the ban on Galileo’s works over a century later in 1758.”

https://paulwandrews.wordpress.com/2017/04/25/galileo-faced-science-deniers-in-the-catholic-church/

Such is the power of superstition.

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

How could marine frequencies have been the only source of vessel to land station and vessel/vessel comms then — and that’s certainly not the case now.

 

I didn't say that. My reference was to competitors gear in the 1968 race. It wasn't HAM. See my reference to cruisers for today and why some use HAM. The geek/basement reference was to try and convey the difference to someone who was clearly having difficulty understanding why HAM wasn't mandated for this race.

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8 hours ago, tama_manu said:

We have a sail boat race up front, with each playing to their strength: Slats going shortest route even though it will be upwind and VDH sailing more miles but going downwind to save his rig.  With the delta in the DTF under 100 miles, after 26,000 miles of sailing, these 5ktSBs are giving what they've got

I disagree.

It is actually getting to  be quite an interesting battle between two routing methodologies and experience, not strength versus weakness.

Slats has elected to go the traditional slow boat max VMG approach, albeit less comfortable. The alternative is to grind Heede down from behind with his superior boat speed. Trouble is that wastes the easting advantage he has been building on for weeks.

The old guy is taking the less conventional approach of sailing more miles trying to set up a position to the west of the prevailing HP systems and so get a better finish approach. Biscay in winter going the wrong way can get very ugly. Currently doing that however he is getting slaughtered on VMG.

I don't believe Heedes busted rig has pushed him towards this approach but would still be employing it if his rig was 100%. It just so happens it is also a more rig friendly approach.

I think the prospects of a couple of lead boat changes may occur between here and the finish looking ahead to the weather.

A lot of cruisers should be watching this to get an education in voyage planning alternatives.

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