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J/27 vs. Tartan Pride 270 vs. Impulse 26


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Yes, another one of these threads...

The Requirements:

  • $10,000 price tag

  • Trailerable by F-150 one mile from yacht club to house. Boat will not travel on trailer; it’s just a cheap winter storage option with the advantage of being able to work on the boat in my own driveway. Some lower overhead utility lines (lower than the standard 13’6’ or whatever it is) but these boats will make it

  • Lighter wind capable boat

  • Comfortable enough to be used for day sailing

  • no need to ever spend the night on the boat

  • no need for a kitchen on the boat

My Opinions:

  • Easy to handle is better (easier than a 40’ IOR boat anyways)

  • Faster is better

  • Cabins are moldy caves for storage purposes

  • Outboard engine is the preferred method of auxiliary propulsion

These boats are all in the same size range and all have a base PHRF NE of 126. Looking for insight on build quality, sailing characters, comfort on deck, any quirks about the boats, etc.

From Sailboatdata:

  J/27 Tartan P270 Impulse 26
LOA           27.50       26.83       26.00
LWL           23.50       23.42       21.58
Beam             8.50         8.50         8.42
Draft             4.90         4.92         4.58
Disp 3800 lbs 3800 lbs 2750 lbs
Bal 1530 lbs 1762 lbs 1305 lbs
Sail area 364 405 327
PHRF NE 126 126 126
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The J27 is a giant killer in the light and very heavy stuff sailing phrf. Does ok in the mid ranges but nothing special. The impulse, great in light air and flat water. Don't know much about the Tartan.  If price and condition were equal between the Impulse and J I would choose the J.  My .02

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I race against some well sailed J27's and they are very hard to beat in PHRF, but when you look at the specs in the original post, I like the potential of the Tartan 270.  More sail area, same displacement, more ballast, deeper keel.  But, I have first hand evidence of the success of J27's.

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At this stage in the life of these boats,  it's be down to the condition of them,  for me.

I really like J-27s but am not familiar with the TartanPride - good looking boat and the inboard rudder is nice - depending on your venue.  Probably well-built too - most Tartans I've seen were.

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Build numbers reported

J/27                                        211

Impulse 26                              40

Tartan 270                              18

 

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Related to the condition,  the actual construction might be worth considering.

At this age,  again - all will be showing signs of age.  The J,  for instance is balsa-cored.  If it wasn't properly cared for there could easily be wet core issues.

The other two ?   I think the Impulses were all foam-cored,  I know my 21 is,  anyway. 

Don't know about the Tartan - I like that 2 spreader rig, and according to the specs it carries a bunch of sail.

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Loved sailing the J27 in evening beer can races. No problem doing well in moderate winds but as the wind lighten, the further my lead would extend. Boat seems to check all the items on your list.  

Everything about this boat is simple. So no matter the condition, it is not difficult to restore. It just takes time, energy and or money. Most will have some wet core in the deck but really doesn't create major issues. Not a difficult repair or just let it be, probably already been there for 10 years. I would be more concerned with a wet hull.

These boats are in the 30+ year range but with a little maintenance can look great and more modern than many boats in the marina. Plus they are fun to sail.

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P270 was American Pride.  I sailed one long time ago.  Way tender, couldn't keep on its feet in a breeze.  Looks like a good boat but never felt right, couldn't ever sort it and get it to go.  The driver was one of the best guys I've ever sailed with, sailed with him on many boats since we were little kids and if he couldn't make it go then something about it just ain't right.

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9 hours ago, bgytr said:

P270 was American Pride.  I sailed one long time ago.  Way tender, couldn't keep on its feet in a breeze.  Looks like a good boat but never felt right, couldn't ever sort it and get it to go.  The driver was one of the best guys I've ever sailed with, sailed with him on many boats since we were little kids and if he couldn't make it go then something about it just ain't right.

+ 1 I Sailed it on a breezy bay when they first came out . never felt right  or as fast or as easy to sail as the J27. 

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Thanks all for the replies. I'm a J Boat guy having owned a J/24 and J/29. I've always written off the J/27, but I'm starting to come around as it really does seem to fit my criteria and there are a few great boats for sale in my area. All the boats were balsa cored except for the first few boats from Impulse Marine. I think Johnson Boat Works switched to balsa once they started building them.

J/80 would be nice, but I've never seen one for $10,000, maybe in a few years. I've also never heard of a J/80 sailing to its rating in PHRF. I've also never understood the appeal of the Laser 28, looks like an ugly cruiser to me and people want big money for them. Maybe they sail well or are a rule beater or something.

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There are a couple Soverel 27s available, too. But I'm not sure I want to give up my secret weapon for LIS.

Don't judge their speed on my ECSA results. Our previous sails were likely 15-20 years old, and it is a completely different animal this year. We are having to relearn things and up our game rounding ahead of/with the Frers.

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I agree out of the ones you suggested the J/27 is probably the best boat all around. I would also recommend you look at the J/29, it ticks all of your boxes but gives you a better racing platform.

 

FRENZY

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1 hour ago, Great Red Shark said:

The Laser 28s were very well built for their time,  Kevlar sandwich - I do believe and they have considerably more interior volume,  if that's a desire.  Also, inboard power - ticks a lot of boxes for some.

Plus it's not a pain box. The J29 is an all around great, th best J oldie IMHO but it's not comfy in any way. The 27 is like hitting yourself with a stick..... not as much of a torture machine as the J24, but still.............

FB- Doug

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The J/27 is the best of bunch and easy to get it going fast.  Its also ridiculously simple, so you can get your head out of the boat.  I currently own won and would have a hard time moving out of it!  The only draw back in my opinion is the heavier four stroke motors are a bitch to take off before racing and I couldn't see leaving it back there.  If you are going to do any cruising or serious motoring, 5hp is as low as you will care to go....  You could pm and we could talk more.

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The tartan 270 seems to be somewhat high wetted surface but not enough righting moment to power up when the breeze is on.  Bad combination.

The J27 v J29...  the J29 is just a sweet all round boat.  Forgiving, easy wide groove.  The J27 is tougher to keep in the sweet spot upwind, but if you do it is very fast, you gotta be on the ball all the time though. Harder to get back in the groove.

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I have owned a J/29 before. MHOB. Loved the boat. It sailed very well, but it really loved the rail loaded up with crew. I love racing but I have a very busy work schedule so I'm not able to make every single regatta. Crew want a reliable boat, not a boat that only goes out a handful of times each season so it was really hard for me to find a pickup crew of 7 people at a moments notice. It was easier for me when I had a J/24 and only needed 4 more people.

I really don't know anything about the J/27, but it looks like a pretty narrow boat so I don't know if more bodies on the rail would help as much as shortening sail. It looks like 5 people would be able to race the boat competitively.

Recap:

J/24 - owned it, loved it - too small, not fast enough

J/29 MHIB - owned it, loved it - too big, needed too much crew, loved the speed, loved the huge spinnaker, but I think I'm a fractional rig person.  

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On the J27, I was just looking at the J-Boats website, and notice that in what appear to be racing pics, there are 6 crew. Can you dig up 5 crew?

Be that as it may, a sweet looking boat.

B.C. (former two-time J22 owner)

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43 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Lead molded to fit into the shallow bilge P&S under the floor boards approximating the weight of "rail meat"....is surprisingly effective....not quite the same ...but not too much different....1st hand experience for singlehand conversion of formerly full crewed up race boat.... these can be done as not permanent refit....as long as they are properly secured 

Interesting. I loved single handing my J22 until about 8 or 10 knots of wind. Then I needed to reef. My H-Boat is more mannerly.

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1 minute ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I got two threads mixed up although the comment applies to both... the above post was meant for the single hand boat thread

Well hell, Sail Blue, do think this is some kind of daycare for the absent minded? Hmmm... maybe it is.:D 

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On 7/18/2018 at 2:11 PM, Great Red Shark said:

Build numbers reported

J/27                                        211

Impulse 26                              40

Tartan 270                              18

 

and surprisingly enough, there's one with the price reduced

 

http://sailingtexas.com/201801/startan270107.html

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All three boats are completely different designs.The original Tartan 27 was a S&S design.The Pride 270 was a Britton Chance design and the the Nitro 27 you recall was actually a Soverel 27 design built by Tartan.One of the Soverel 27s built.was named Nitro...

1 hour ago, garyedelman said:

I seem to remember there were actually 3 versions of the Tartan 27, Pride 270 and a Nitro 27.  All were

supposed to be the same boat, but I think each as "tweaked" in some way to differentiate it from the other 2.

 

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On 7/27/2018 at 3:53 PM, jww said:

All three boats are completely different designs.The original Tartan 27 was a S&S design.The Pride 270 was a Britton Chance design and the the Nitro 27 you recall was actually a Soverel 27 design built by Tartan.One of the Soverel 27s built.was named Nitro...

 

friend of mine owned a '64 tartan 27, that thing was a tank..

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  • 1 year later...
On 7/21/2018 at 12:28 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Plus it's not a pain box. The J29 is an all around great, th best J oldie IMHO but it's not comfy in any way. The 27 is like hitting yourself with a stick..... not as much of a torture machine as the J24, but still.............

FB- Doug

Amen brother

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