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  • 2 weeks later...

Dragonfly makes dual use boats.  They are not stripped out raceboats, like a Farr 40.  Interior is Scandinavian minimalist, not Carroll Marine gelcoated acres.  Not that there is anything wrong with that.   But there's no gutting the interior and keeping the dual use capability.  Plenty of masochistically stripped out multi's out there for the guys who want that.

Plus the boats are really nicely built, often by alums from X Yacht's early days.  Its not a disposable throwaway raceboat.

More interesting question for me is whether the hull and amas are state of the art, everything known now, conventional (read: just short of foiling) design and not just a stretch of the pre-2018 designs.

 

 

 

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True, it will be nice to see some innovation.  However, if you've got something that works well there's no point breaking it with the latest bleeding edge. 

Hey Crouton, is that a dragonfly in your profile pic?  DF28 on a trailer is very appealing.  

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They are pretty nicely made, like “yachts”. But weight = death in multis. I could identify at least half a ton of gratuitous weight in my df35. Can replace 90% of stainless steel stuff (incl the diesel tank, waterstays, etc) with hi tech synthetic stuff. Thick glass fiber everywhere, even in no-load areas.

Quorning should offer a “light” version, with hi-tec cloth/synth interior instead of wood, CF beams, etc. I bet more of those will sell. I’d buy one.

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7 hours ago, EarthBM said:

They are pretty nicely made, like “yachts”. But weight = death in multis. I could identify at least half a ton of gratuitous weight in my df35. Can replace 90% of stainless steel stuff (incl the diesel tank, waterstays, etc) with hi tech synthetic stuff. Thick glass fiber everywhere, even in no-load areas.

Quorning should offer a “light” version, with hi-tec cloth/synth interior instead of wood, CF beams, etc. I bet more of those will sell. I’d buy one.

I think DF knows what their doing - they want relatively safe boat to sell to not so experienced sailors - many from monos. Jens himself has a featherlight racing boat so he knows how to do that - but also that it takes an expert to sail it and that the market is little. 

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23 hours ago, EarthBM said:

They are pretty nicely made, like “yachts”. But weight = death in multis. I could identify at least half a ton of gratuitous weight in my df35. Can replace 90% of stainless steel stuff (incl the diesel tank, waterstays, etc) with hi tech synthetic stuff. Thick glass fiber everywhere, even in no-load areas.

Quorning should offer a “light” version, with hi-tec cloth/synth interior instead of wood, CF beams, etc. I bet more of those will sell. I’d buy one.

 

14 hours ago, SeaGul said:

I think DF knows what their doing - they want relatively safe boat to sell to not so experienced sailors - many from monos. Jens himself has a featherlight racing boat so he knows how to do that - but also that it takes an expert to sail it and that the market is little. 

The 40' is probably $1mm ready to go.  I don't think they need a very big market.  

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21 hours ago, SeaGul said:

I think DF knows what their doing - they want relatively safe boat to sell to not so experienced sailors - many from monos. Jens himself has a featherlight racing boat so he knows how to do that - but also that it takes an expert to sail it and that the market is little. 

He does. I believe it's called Dragonfire. You`ll need those foiling thingies to sail away from this one. 

dragonfiret.jpg

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18 hours ago, eastern motors said:

 

The 40' is probably $1mm ready to go.  I don't think they need a very big market.  

Hull # 2 should be at the Naptown boat show in April

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On 9/7/2018 at 12:12 AM, Kalimotxo said:

He does. I believe it's called Dragonfire. You`ll need those foiling thingies to sail away from this one. 

dragonfiret.jpg

Other than looking like the ama's have about 120% buoyancy (maybe, but marginal, in flat water, at best), this looks like a pretty cool boat.  Did he have DF build it for him I wonder???

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The Dragonflys typically hasnt 2-300% amas - and the reason is safety - when pressed the ama will go down and you really feel close to the limit - but without immidiate danger to capsize. Then you will understand that its time to reduce sail - and that is totally a safer way to sail. DF is touringboats and have many sailors that come from mono and want to have safety at first. 

Many of the capsizes with DFs that I have heard of is really top sailor that press the boats beyond this basic consept thinking. 

Jens are maybe using this boat to test those ideas. 

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On 9/9/2018 at 5:14 AM, Veeger said:

Other than looking like the ama's have about 120% buoyancy (maybe, but marginal, in flat water, at best), this looks like a pretty cool boat.  Did he have DF build it for him I wonder???

Dragonfire is an old design, original build by Gert Frederiksen (founder of Frederiksen boat fittings, now owned by Ronstan, and C Class sailer). Dragonfire was originaly named Orbit and was Gerts attempt to make a Formula 28, but not as radical as the rule allowed. Jens has extended the arms and put on a larger rig. To my knowledge the most recent update has bien adding lifting foils from a M 32. Dragonfire is 100% carbon, 28 foot and weighs  about 670kg.

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On 9/10/2018 at 6:34 AM, Easy-Sailing.dk said:

Dragonfire is an old design, original build by Gert Frederiksen (founder of Frederiksen boat fittings, now owned by Ronstan, and C Class sailer). Dragonfire was originaly named Orbit and was Gerts attempt to make a Formula 28, but not as radical as the rule allowed. Jens has extended the arms and put on a larger rig. To my knowledge the most recent update has bien adding lifting foils from a M 32. Dragonfire is 100% carbon, 28 foot and weighs  about 670kg.

Are those trapeze wires?

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Hull #2 will likely be the first US boat. June or July I expect. Cost much less than $1M. Tall rig. Lightweight interior. Hull minimal gelcoat with paint.  And a lot of soft shackles. No sprit- kites are off the nose piece. Transom bit will be removable- definitely not drop down. Parts of the design are still under consideration and the factory is listening. Hull 1 is the test boat and will likely remain in Denmark. But as stated earlier- the boat will be both safe and fast.

Stay tuned.

image.png.1fd9ed2bf10c810f650be151d8829116.png

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11 hours ago, rattus32 said:

That's Lower Fart. The worst of the Farts. ;-)

I understand Danish (afterall I mostly lived there for the first 30 years of my life) but I think you must be thinking further south (like Germany) and then the name would be Niederfart

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On 9/16/2018 at 1:47 PM, Infidel said:

Hull #2 will likely be the first US boat. June or July I expect. Cost much less than $1M. Tall rig. Lightweight interior. Hull minimal gelcoat with paint.  And a lot of soft shackles. No sprit- kites are off the nose piece. Transom bit will be removable- definitely not drop down. Parts of the design are still under consideration and the factory is listening. Hull 1 is the test boat and will likely remain in Denmark. But as stated earlier- the boat will be both safe and fast.

Stay tuned

CF beams, plastic fuel tank (or some Oceanvolt system), synthetic stays, LiPo batteries...

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  • 1 year later...
On 9/5/2018 at 7:25 PM, EarthBM said:

They are pretty nicely made, like “yachts”. But weight = death in multis. I could identify at least half a ton of gratuitous weight in my df35. Can replace 90% of stainless steel stuff (incl the diesel tank, waterstays, etc) with hi tech synthetic stuff. Thick glass fiber everywhere, even in no-load areas.

Quorning should offer a “light” version, with hi-tec cloth/synth interior instead of wood, CF beams, etc. I bet more of those will sell. I’d buy one.

This is an interesting boat I am keeping an eye on. But a 7000 lbs 40 Dragonfly tri?  I don't believe until they weight it and prove it with all gear installed.  And I am not saying that is a bad thing.  Not getting into names but I think Cat A calls for 1200g/sm external skins.  I have seen some large tris that meet that standard (and pay the weight penalty) and some that don't (while claiming they do).  Skins were actually about 300g/sm (yea think A cat thin) and were crushed in simple raft up surprising the new owner.  Fun boat to sail but would not want to own it as a cruiser.  I have no doubt DF will met the standard and be well built which is why I doubt they meet that weight target mentioned up thread.  Still a cool boat potentially.

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8 hours ago, Wess said:

This is an interesting boat I am keeping an eye on. But a 7000 lbs 40 Dragonfly tri?  I don't believe until they weight it and prove it with all gear installed.  And I am not saying that is a bad thing.  Not getting into names but I think Cat A calls for 1200g/sm external skins.  I have seen some large tris that meet that standard (and pay the weight penalty) and some that don't (while claiming they do).  Skins were actually about 300g/sm (yea think A cat thin) and were crushed in simple raft up surprising the new owner.  Fun boat to sail but would not want to own it as a cruiser.  I have no doubt DF will met the standard and be well built which is why I doubt they meet that weight target mentioned up thread.  Still a cool boat potentially.

The spec says 5,500kg

 

PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS DRAGONFLY 40 Touring  Ultimate
 Length overall 12.40 m 12.40 m
 Length folded   13.99 m  13.99 m
 Beam sailing    8.40 m 8.40 m
 Beam folded 4.00 m 4.00 m
 Draft board up 0.70 m 0.70 m
 Draft board down 1.90 m 1.90 m
 Weight of standard dry boat ready to sail, excl. extra equipment    5,500 kg 5,500 kg
 Payload max incl crew   1,800 kg 1,800 kg
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28 minutes ago, Mordoc said:

The spec says 5,500kg

 

PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS DRAGONFLY 40 Touring  Ultimate
 Length overall 12.40 m 12.40 m
 Length folded   13.99 m  13.99 m
 Beam sailing    8.40 m 8.40 m
  Beam folded 4.00 m 4.00 m
 Draft board up 0.70 m 0.70 m
 Draft board down 1.90 m 1.90 m
 Weight of standard dry boat ready to sail, excl. extra equipment    5,500 kg 5,500 kg
 Payload max incl crew   1,800 kg 1,800 kg

In the renderings the proportions look good.. however the specs suggest it is pretty narrow with only a 8.4m beam for a 12.4m length.

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1 hour ago, can-UK said:

In the renderings the proportions look good.. however the specs suggest it is pretty narrow with only a 8.4m beam for a 12.4m length.

-------------------------------------

RAPIDO 40

LOA - 12.00m

LWL - 11.96m

BOA - 8.30m

BOA (folded) - 4.60m

--------------------------------------

I am more concerned about the living space in the main hull -> BOA (folded) only 4.00 m

Additionally considering the large cockpit, the main hull will most probably have the size of a 35ft mono for the price of an XP50

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3 hours ago, Mordoc said:

The spec says 5,500kg

 

     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

That sounds more realistic.  I was reacting to EarthBM's number but looking back I think he intended that as his personal target as opposed to a DF statement or target.  My bad.

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  • 1 month later...
5 hours ago, EarthBM said:

I dunno... a builder that puts twin helms next to each other to emulate monohull look doesn’t seem to care about weight much.

+1...I thought the whole point of twin helms on a monohull was to be able to steer from the high side...

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There are some advantages to get the helm out of center - see that - but the mainsheet?? How can that solution be good for sailing or the use of the cockpit-space... and advanced light/strong targa with  the track on top - and that doubles as a frame for a cockpit tent must be so much better - you have the basic foundation in those pidestalls. 

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19 hours ago, EarthBM said:

I dunno... a builder that puts twin helms next to each other to emulate monohull look doesn’t seem to care about weight much.

A0A330CC-7ABD-49A1-8FFB-4031960AF0EC.jpeg

 

14 hours ago, gspot said:

+1...I thought the whole point of twin helms on a monohull was to be able to steer from the high side...

Yea, +2.  I look at that and cringe.  And I own and sail a trimaran and wanted to be interested in this boat.  Somebody please tell me there is a tiller option.  Please.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/24/2020 at 4:51 PM, Floating Duck said:

Trimaran are headed the way of production catamarans...

Condotris! 

:o-_-

This "condotri" can still do 15-20kn with ease but the price you pay is a mighty rig, heavy loads, electric winches etc.

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6 hours ago, Mordoc said:

15-20kn with ease but the price you pay is a mighty rig, heavy loads, electric winches etc.

I’ll take the under on this. Not “with ease”. Maybe for the promo shoot in flat protected  Danish water.

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6 minutes ago, eastern motors said:

Is 750k euros enough for a Rapido 50?

I don't think so, when they advertise on yachtworld for 720k. Add transport from Vietnam, some bells and whistles, then 20%+ VAT in EU and we are looking closer 1M.

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  • 3 weeks later...
2 hours ago, steelmadesteamer said:

All who wants real 20 kn tri are welcome to PM for a LINK to the Owner/Builder of his 2015 built swing wings 10-meters epoxy/carbon 1,460 kg tri  with solar panels, electric outboard, toilet,  etc ...

... 1.95 m in salon for those of us who needs  this height. 

 ... @ a price  2.5 times less compared to shown above R50 numbers.

https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/207099/building-the-awesome-black-marlin

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I delivered a new Dragonfly 32 from Newport to The Annapolis show in 2016.

We left Newport in a northeasterly gale and made the direct passage to Cape May safely and in good time with three very experienced guys aboard. The boat routinely hit 20 knots and averaged over 10 to the mouth of the Delaware Bay in safe delivery mode. Heading up the Bay in a 20 knot breeze we only made around 9 knots. The boat was loaded with the owners extensive coastal cruising gear plus our delivery kit.

This boat is, essentially, a plumb bowed, current design, Dragonfly1000 (35 footer).

Healthy diagonal stability made for a safe passage in challenging conditions and proved the speed potential in plenty of breeze. Her performance in moderate to lighter air was less impressive and reflective of her higher weight (compared to the crews experience, all owners of older, simpler trimarans).

Although a smaller version the design is similar to the 40, based on the published specs, so I would expect similar performance. Not a light air flyer but sturdily constructed and very capable offshore, definitely fun boats.

I have made similar passages on the 30 and 35, also completed safely and in good time. I don't work for Dragonfly but was paid for the deliveries. I wish them success with the 40 and look foreword to sailing one.

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14 minutes ago, boardhead said:

I delivered a new Dragonfly 32 from Newport to The Annapolis show in 2016.

We left Newport in a northeasterly gale and made the direct passage to Cape May safely and in good time with three very experienced guys aboard. The boat routinely hit 20 knots and averaged over 10 to the mouth of the Delaware Bay in safe delivery mode. Heading up the Bay in a 20 knot breeze we only made around 9 knots. The boat was loaded with the owners extensive coastal cruising gear plus our delivery kit.

This boat is, essentially, a plumb bowed, current design, Dragonfly1000 (35 footer).

Healthy diagonal stability made for a safe passage in challenging conditions and proved the speed potential in plenty of breeze. Her performance in moderate to lighter air was less impressive and reflective of her higher weight (compared to the crews experience, all owners of older, simpler trimarans).

Although a smaller version the design is similar to the 40, based on the published specs, so I would expect similar performance. Not a light air flyer but sturdily constructed and very capable offshore, definitely fun boats.

I have made similar passages on the 30 and 35, also completed safely and in good time. I don't work for Dragonfly but was paid for the deliveries. I wish them success with the 40 and look foreword to sailing one.

Useful real world stuff right there.  Thanks for sharing that.

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