Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Anyone know if SailX is done for good? I was just singing its praises at a nationals event and now I go to log in and it redirects to some other site. Kind of a shame, though to be honest I hadn't been using it for quite some time. It was a good tool for learning the rules. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, fprintf said:

Anyone know if SailX is done for good? I was just singing its praises at a nationals event and now I go to log in and it redirects to some other site. Kind of a shame, though to be honest I hadn't been using it for quite some time. It was a good tool for learning the rules. 

from their Facebook Page:

Quote

Hi sailxers. We are sorry we've been out for a while due vacations and some work.
The site suffered a hack attack and we were forced to suspend activity in order to make sure we were safe.
Currently we are studing a way to fix the site security problem along with the issues about the simulator we all know and as you may know that's not cheap...
We know you love Sailx as much as we do and we're trying our best to find a possible solution.
Thanks a lot for your pacience.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SteveC said:

Can I have some of what you were smokin when you posted pls... :D

I am given to understand that Snags hasn't smoked\downed\shot\snorted anything in decades. He just lives in a state of permanent flash back. However, I would not trust my source on this. You never know with a cat of Snag's character...

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/21/2018 at 8:12 PM, ryley said:

from their Facebook Page:

 

I can't log into their moderator and judge forums and my emails didn't get a response.  I used to be a mod and judge, but I stopped when they changed over to 3D a couple years ago.  It was a huge time investment and it was just a few bad actors that took up 99% of the judging and protest process and swamped the volunteers.  Just too much work for free.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, teamt said:

Their domain name expired on July 23 and I suspect someone else snagged it as it was "updated" on July 24.  Some facebook folks claim that the Ltd that operated it dissolved in Feb 2017.   Looks dead to me.

We'll see.  Last I was involved a large amount of the coding work was being done by college students as part of their education.  It wasn't "really" a commercial venture at that time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Amando and his brother closed the site for repairs.  There has not been much news since.

Its worrying that they have not kept a page marker on the web address band protected the domain.  JCD and Turbo have been exchanging emails and I think that JCD emailed Amando but I am assuming there is still no news.

Amando has work and business that actually pays the bills and since he has been subsidizing SailX since day one, one assumes that time and resource spent on sailX have to take second priority to work. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
On 8/23/2018 at 7:53 AM, Mambo Kings said:

Amando and his brother closed the site for repairs.  There has not been much news since.

Its worrying that they have not kept a page marker on the web address band protected the domain.  JCD and Turbo have been exchanging emails and I think that JCD emailed Amando but I am assuming there is still no news.

Amando has work and business that actually pays the bills and since he has been subsidizing SailX since day one, one assumes that time and resource spent on sailX have to take second priority to work. 

any update? gone for good? was such a great community it's hard to believe it disappeared so quietly 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, some dude said:

any update? gone for good? was such a great community it's hard to believe it disappeared so quietly 

While it was fun, I think the writing was on the wall back when they started to take it 3D.  It stopped being simple and easy to learn (trim, ease, three buttons for heading) and started become quite complicated.  The top down view was a simple one - the 3D view and constant camera panning to try to get the right angles to see could be a real pain.

I felt like it went from a game that you could learn the sailing rules to a far more "video game" game.

Also, the load on the moderation and judges was enormous.  Too many assholes, from those that intentionally ruined entire races to those who wanted to constantly nitpik the tiniest rule nuance and made simple protests take forever.  We were never, and I mean never, caught up on the protests.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be cool if someone could bring back the 2D version. It was as far back as late '06 or early '07 that I was introduced to Tacticat, the precursor to SailX. 

At its best SailX was great fun and reinforced good tactical habits. 

+ karma for Amando Estela. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

It was good training for tactical skills .

 

But the protest room was also good training in the rules.

No doubt.  I learned things that I still use to this day.  For instance:  anticipation doesn't exist in the rules.  You don't have start keeping clear until the other guy's tack is completed.  Or until overlap is established.  That solved a TON of protests early on that the automatic rules system just couldn't.  I.e., how LONG does the right of way boat need to have right of way.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Grrr... said:

No doubt.  I learned things that I still use to this day.  For instance:  anticipation doesn't exist in the rules.  You don't have start keeping clear until the other guy's tack is completed.  Or until overlap is established.  That solved a TON of protests early on that the automatic rules system just couldn't.  I.e., how LONG does the right of way boat need to have right of way.

Except when approaching the mark zone. You have to be providing mark room the moment that rule 18 is turned on, so you hav eto anticipate.

 

But yes rule 10 and 11 do not require anticipation and the boat gaining ROW is subject to 15.

There were some great protests and the reference cases had some great examples of difficult situations that occur so rarely in real life. In sailx, the playing field was level because nobody had a boat speed advantage and the courses were short so we saw many more rule situations than we do in real life.  We also became much more acutely aware of small tactical advantages .  It honed the skills of some very good sailors (Eg Steve Hunt) and improved the skills of a lot of amateur club level sailors.

 

It will be sadly missed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Mambo Kings said:

It was good training for tactical skills .

 

But the protest room was also good training in the rules.

Agree.  I never messed with 3D.  As a tactics simulator, 2D was great and I did learn a lot in the room.  Assholes got banned pretty quickly, but I do realize (and appreciate) the work all the mods and admins did to keep it running so well  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Really liked the plain 2d version.  When imps got on their and plainly tried to get on sailors nerve,  the die hards like Sailorski, flow, mamboking...so many to mention always defended well and gave them a chance but then kept their cool.  Certain sailors had a hard time playing by the rules but that is no surprise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, proOC said:

Really liked the plain 2d version.  When imps got on their and plainly tried to get on sailors nerve,  the die hards like Sailorski, flow, mamboking...so many to mention always defended well and gave them a chance but then kept their cool.  Certain sailors had a hard time playing by the rules but that is no surprise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

word

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
18 hours ago, Lowflash said:

Still gone.  I keep checking it like an empty 'fridge expecting something different each time. I wonder if some sailing oriented vendor (North, Harken, etc.) could/would be interested in funding it enough to keep it going?

 

You are not alone, brother. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, proOC said:

I got invited from a FB page from another user to try to petition the for it to get back online.

 

Anyone else?

 

 

No but it would have to be a petition of €€€€ rather than signatures, methinks.   Which reminds me-I had just renewed when it disappeared.  I don't begrudge aestela or whomever for the money (I way underpaid for all the hours of fun) I just wish it would come back

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot see how a petition would help resurrect SailX. what would be needed is a sponsor or for someone to offer to buy SailX.

Amando did amazing work with the site, but my guess is he has more important things to do with his life right now.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it was more like a petition for a drive to get it hot again and online.

I couldn't think of anything better then getting her back up and playing.  It was an invaluable tool for some of us...and I met quite a few friends and fellow sailors on it.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, proOC said:

Maybe it was more like a petition for a drive to get it hot again and online.

I couldn't think of anything better then getting her back up and playing.  It was an invaluable tool for some of us...and I met quite a few friends and fellow sailors on it.

 

1 hour ago, JohnMB said:

I cannot see how a petition would help resurrect SailX. what would be needed is a sponsor or for someone to offer to buy SailX.

Amando did amazing work with the site, but my guess is he has more important things to do with his life right now.

 

I was thinking it was a GoFundMe or something similar. At one point they were talking about the financial feasibility of rebooting. I was there from the start and I fear that the virtual sailing world will never be the same. They had that shit dialed in! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, pudge said:

 

I was thinking it was a GoFundMe or something similar. At one point they were talking about the financial feasibility of rebooting. I was there from the start and I fear that the virtual sailing world will never be the same. They had that shit dialed in! 

I was also in very early, I don't know when the true 'start' was but when I came in there were only cats and the rules were 100% automatic. It frequently took a while to get enough boats together for a race. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, JohnMB said:

I was also in very early, I don't know when the true 'start' was but when I came in there were only cats and the rules were 100% automatic. It frequently took a while to get enough boats together for a race. 

*Tacticat

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep.  During the tacticat days they actually had bots sailing alongside you to get enough boats for races.  Later on that wasn't a problem so they dumped them.  For a long time we were pushing for a standalone application to single play against bots, but they never created it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JohnMB said:

right I'd forgotten that it had changed name. so yes I was in from the start on sailx and had played tacticat for a while before that.

Ahhhh remember when we called it Tacticrack because it was so addictive?

By the end there was a lot of code in there. We had foiling modes, a pretty robust rule engine, and even the protest room must have taken a lot of coding.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

Some of the humor that went on in the background to keep the moderators sane.

 

Suiting up in preparation for a protest involving Rainbow Warrior!

99957228_VMKsModeratingsuit.thumb.jpg.936e8a5c168fcdcdcf328636de4cde2e.jpg

LOL I had battles with RW for a while but we ended up friends-I believe his heart was in the right place.  Protests were useful to learn/spark a rules discussion, and/or to smack a dickhead.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was JohnB all the way. had a good run, but when it was done it was done.

I still have a mixture of pride and horror about the protest room. Amando was initially very skeptical about it, I'm trying to remember who the original moderator group was. I know DW was in there early, i cant remember when VMK joined the mods.

I also miss the original 'standard' quotes.

"my tailor is rich" .

"I am the mambo king"

Link to post
Share on other sites

RW was a friend of mine.  Met him on sailx and he was reasonable when it came to protests.  The fact that everything was reviewable was a plus...and a minus.

Many learned their lesson quickly and then some...not so quickly,...like that fucker that always crashed on port and never understood a R18.3.  And, thought they were owed mark room.  That one killed me everytime.  Anticipation is not written in any rule either which some never could catch on to.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, proOC said:

RW was a friend of mine.  Met him on sailx and he was reasonable when it came to protests.  The fact that everything was reviewable was a plus...and a minus.

Many learned their lesson quickly and then some...not so quickly,...like that fucker that always crashed on port and never understood a R18.3.  And, thought they were owed mark room.  That one killed me everytime.  Anticipation is not written in any rule either which some never could catch on to.  

Same

Just like real life-some boats you can trust to do the smart thing, some boats to do the dumb thing, and some are wild cards.  Adjust your tactics accordingly-it's part of the game.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was also there when Tacticat started (I don't remember my nickname) On SailX I was "Xandas", I fucked up many races to many people (sorry again guys) due to my inability to control some of the boats, especiallythe fast ones. But I did win a few races.

I also had a life-subscription.

 

I wish it comes back some day

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 5 months later...
20 minutes ago, theParadoxOfThrift said:

I'd love it back - I was theParadoxOfThrift and I had a rule that if my ranking was getting too good I was spending too much time on Sailx!

Good rule.  Definitely an inverse correlation with career success 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 8 months later...
7 hours ago, Dead air said:

With everyone being forced to stay at home, what are the chances of resurrecting the 2D version of sailx to give us all the sailing fix we need?

Zero percent. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I really miss it when playing the VR inshore.
its so basic and clumsy, not to mentiont it does not have full rules, no turning for example... so arcadish

Anyway it would be very nice to see it resurected, I would pay lots more to SailX/Tacticat than to the "official World Sailing game"

BR!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

sailx 

Gave it up when one mad mod, maybe Okole?, went on a power trip and tried to bin everyone.

There was one self-declared judge who made absolutely atrocious rulings.  I can’t remember the name.  I remember the Okole handle, but I don’t think that’s who I‘m thinking of.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Vr inshore is garbage.  Bad ruleset, the ability to purchase wins, and abusers of the system everywhere.

Agreed that it is for kids.

 

well its fucking World SAiling Official!!!! 

7 hours ago, in_TO said:

There was one self-declared judge who made absolutely atrocious rulings.  I can’t remember the name.  I remember the Okole handle, but I don’t think that’s who I‘m thinking of.

Okole was mad......

 

 

anyhow yesterday we had the II ranking spanish regatta, about 300 boats organized in several groups... pretty wel organized in private races, 4 races with a discard and a final medal race....

There was sooo mmuch people saling... about 2000 said the game that there where connection porblems in all races, it was a joke, suddenly you boat was going upwind and lost 3 lentghs of windward... bc fuck you.

and the application of rules is horrible, makes ppl abuse them all the time.

will keep posting , we have races very thursday.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

SailX was the best. We need this back now more than ever. I am desperate to find something even half as good but seems nothing exists out there.

Wouldn't it be possible to recover some back-up of say the 2D version from like 2007 - 2010 timeframe when it was simple, had automated rules running, and make it free to play to keep us from going insane during this world - wide lock down? Someone must have the source code stashed on some tape drive or something. And with the massive availability of server farms around the world today I could imagine a 1 week effort to raise funds would be more than enough to host it.

Maybe I am just dreaming. I really miss SailX 2D version.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/7/2020 at 7:25 PM, US101 said:

SailX was the best. We need this back now more than ever. I am desperate to find something even half as good but seems nothing exists out there.

Wouldn't it be possible to recover some back-up of say the 2D version from like 2007 - 2010 timeframe when it was simple, had automated rules running, and make it free to play to keep us from going insane during this world - wide lock down? Someone must have the source code stashed on some tape drive or something. And with the massive availability of server farms around the world today I could imagine a 1 week effort to raise funds would be more than enough to host it.

Maybe I am just dreaming. I really miss SailX 2D version.

I'll chip in

Aestela where are you?  This is our hour of need

Link to post
Share on other sites

We need the authors to github the code.  Anybody know who they are?

It would be easy to spin up a server on Digital Ocean or AWS and run it, if we can just get our hands on the code.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow that was a great link and read on Amando which points our where the challenges would be getting it going again. I wonder if the stated "Military Grade Internet" is what we would consider standard today. Because if it's not realtime as it was then it would be a fail.

Below from the article.

SailX may look like a relatively simple game but we have actually encountered and overcome several major challenges on the way - as follows:

Rules Engine: The first major challenge was to build a rules engine that could interpret racing incidents with a high degree of accuracy. As every racing sailor knows the RRS are quite complicated having been developed and refined over many years by lawyers! We get daily feedback on accuracy of the rules engine via the Protest system and as with all areas in SailX we are continuously working to improve things. Currently the engine rules on approx. 1.5m incidents per year with approx. 95% accuracy so it’s not too bad – and it’s a hell of a lot better than the real world because there is zero ambiguity regarding facts relating to each incident.

Moderation: The SailX community is extremely diverse: we have created an environment where people with very different demographics, cultures and backgrounds compete in real-time and interact offline in forums and (potentially heated) protest discussions. The normal expectations for online behaviour and language of a young Irish ‘World of Warcraft’ fan for example, is very different to that of a young Chinese girl or retired Turkish man and as you can imagine this can lead to some problems!

Over many years we have built systems and processes to ensure the SailX environment adheres to very high standards of fair play and respect. We have a multi language ‘profanity filter’ in place to stop players abusing each other via this Instant Message facility. We also have a community of Moderators and Administrators who keep a close eye on the racing fields, protest rooms and forums. It’s taken a long time to build the systems and processes but the end result is an unusually positive and productive online community environment that we are very proud of.

Global server setup & administration: One of the great features of SailX is that it is truly global. In order to facilitate this we have servers in Vancouver, Rotterdam, New York, Panama, Dallas and London and hosting via independent third parties in New Zealand, Canada and Germany! Its relatively complicated setting up such a global infrastructure but the real challenge is in setting it up in such a way that it is robust can be maintained cost effectively and without the need for specialist skills.

Real-time global gaming: Unlike offshore racing, the very essence of inshore racing is interacting with other boats or with their wind shadows. Making this possible is a real challenge when interaction needs to be immediate (or so quick that the time gap between instruction and action is imperceptible), when gamers can be ten thousand miles or more apart and when there can be forty or so players on screen at any one time. In order to solve this problem we had to employ a very fast, military grade internet communications protocol.

Community: With so many technical hurdles to overcome it is perhaps surprising that the most challenging aspect to SailX is a human one – building a community that is large and engaged enough such that there are sufficient people online 24/7 to ensure a user anywhere in the world can log on and take part in a competitive race.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The trick would be to simplify it down to the bare bones of what people liked.  It sounds like it became somewhat feature-rich after a while.  KISS principle would be needed to resurrect it.  And it could not be free IMHO, because free adds complication to the business model.

If the authors haven't githubbed the code, it probably means that they intend to resurrect it sometime.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fully agree that it needs the KISS principle. Maybe the very early version code could be made public without infringement. Target would be the version with the rules engine. I was never thinking Ad funding but user donations to pay for hosting it. It also would not last forever, as we could not expect the level of support as it had from Estela, and I think we would need to self moderate. Also maybe skip the protest hearings. The objective as Rain Man indicated...KISS. Let's just do some 2D racing for fun to fill the gap of being BORDED TO SHIT and not having any racing for the moment. The Ocean racing stuff (IE: SOL) is worse than watching paint dry...and I particulary like watching paint dry when I put a fresh coat on one of my blades :rolleyes: 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been doing some races at SailOnLine.org which is kinda interesting but a lot of dead time involved and no boat interaction. I reached out to the admin’s at SOL to see if they might take on the challenge to resurrect SailX as the old 2D version since it seems to be a very similar environment to SOL. It would be a nice addition to SOL as it gives players something to do between long offshore legs in the current races. Seems like a great compliment to what they already have today. Of course it would all depend if they could get access to the code and rights to do so and if they had enough interest and resources to do it.

Figured it couldn’t hurt to give it a shot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...