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Pettit Trinidad - SR, PRO, XL, w/ PTEF, or w/ Irgarol


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Trying to confirm the difference of each and received different info from the Pettit vs Defender.

From Pettit (which i don't believe) :

 - XL is just a larger can, SR has more copper vs Pro (only difference), SR is more expensive then Pro, they did NOT change their formula

From Defender (who I do believe):

- There was one maker if Ingarol and they stopped making it for a short time.  As a result, Pettit needed to revise their formula during that time and put higher loads of copper (5% more) and replaced Ingarol with PTEF.  Now they have reverted back to the "old" formula that includes Ingarol and also went back to less copper load. Still not clear the difference between Pro and SR with PTEF.  I assume the pro is for sale now to the public because they want to get rid of the old paint formula.

With that said, can anyone confirm that Defender is correct?  And most importantly, does anyone have any first hand experience with the paint w/ PTEF vs. Ingarol?  Ss well as SR vs. Pro?  Does anyone know when they were forced to go to PTEF and when they went back to Ingarol?

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I have used Trinidad for years with good results. The last time I painted was during the time of no ingarol. The paint has held up well against hard growth but seems like the slime layer developes much quicker between cleaning.

I too have wondered about the higher grades of Trinidad and if it was worth the additional cost. Never tried as I felt I got good coverage and live expectancy with the standard Trinidad. 

Someone must have tried the higher grades. How did it work out, worth the expense?

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USA1136,

I had used Pettit Trinidad with SR for years with good results (no slime for up to a year).  Then when they had to reformulate Trinidad without the Irgoral the slime build up was almost instantaneous.  I contacted Pettit to confirm that the Irgoral formula was back.  Here is their answer:

The none Irgoral product has a “A” after the product number on the box.  So Black Trinidad Pro with out Irgoral would be 1088 A. Manufactured before Sept 2017.  The product with only 1088 manufactured after Sept.  will be the Irgoral product. Make sure to check the actual can under active ingredients 60% copper 2% Irgoral.  The none Irgoral under active ingredients  will say 65% copper.
Hope this helps.
 
That being said I have been disappointed with the slime reduction of the new (with Irgoral) formula - it has slimed up very quickly.
 
Later
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  • 1 month later...
On 9/3/2018 at 6:42 PM, DDW said:

I was able to get Pro recently with Irgarol (or at least it claimed that on the can). The last batch over a year ago did not have it.

The guy who put on my last coat in Sausalito, January 2018 said that Proline 1088 sometime came without a key ingredient and then later again with it.

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  • 5 months later...

Does the Pettit Trinidad family of antifouling hold well if the boat is out of the water for long period of time? I see on the data sheet a comment stating "*The above dry times are minimums. Trinidad Antifouling may be recoated after the minimum time shown and launched up to 60 days after painting."
 

Does it mean that the paint loses its antifouling properties if the boat stays out of the water for longer period of time???

Thanks for your input.

 

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Laurent

that is only for the initial launching after a new paint job. If you continue reading, you will observe that once boat is launched, you can only keep it out max 72hr IIRC before the paint will be compromised 

So, no, Trinidad is not a good choice if you don’t keep your boat in the water all the time 

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Try Petit Hydrocoat. I'm trying the Eco, so far it's been good. Water based, no stink, ablative (but pretty hard) sticks tenaciously, lays down pretty flat even with a roller, washes up with water if you are quick about it. Unlimited time out of the water. Perhaps the best part: recoat instructions are pressure wash and paint - no sanding. And it turns out you pretty much can't sand it, loads the paper instantly. Might be able to wet sand it. No copper so should continue to be legal into the future. 

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  • 1 year later...
1 hour ago, usa1136 said:

So any feedback on the new 2021 versions.  Rumor has it no more Ingarol again?

Quit listening to the old salts on the dock. They don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground.

B5F1DD70-D706-460F-A852-908E9689DC85.png

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On 3/28/2019 at 7:27 PM, fstbttms said:

My understanding is that Trinidad SR and Trinidad Pro are now and have always been the same product. Just labeled differently.

This is true 

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I painted TRINIDAD just this last fall. Pettit told me to read the can labels. Irgarol formulation will be labeled as such, and a slightly less copper content. Not all paint will be new stock, so check the cans you want to use.

And FFS, mix carefully...

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From looking into it a few years ago I vaguely recall there were slight copper content differences between Pro and SR and different shades of the colors but I could be remembering wrong. May have just been a price difference. I do recall the version of SR with Ingarol had a different product number than the version without and Defender made a point to note the differences. 

Out of curiosity, I just checked the Petit website and it looks like the current data sheets for Pro and SR look the same, SR now has one version (with Ingarol), and there is an HD version which has a slightly lower copper content and no Ingarol. Plain old Trinidad has been discontinued (probably replaced with HD), and there is a pro series Trinidad 75 which has about the same copper as Pro and SR, but no Ingarol. 

Well, that was fun. I think I'll just stick with SR...  and yes, mix carefully. Also, Ingarol smells funny. 

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On 3/28/2019 at 9:53 PM, DDW said:

Try Petit Hydrocoat. I'm trying the Eco, so far it's been good. Water based, no stink, ablative (but pretty hard) sticks tenaciously, lays down pretty flat even with a roller, washes up with water if you are quick about it. Unlimited time out of the water. Perhaps the best part: recoat instructions are pressure wash and paint - no sanding. And it turns out you pretty much can't sand it, loads the paper instantly. Might be able to wet sand it. No copper so should continue to be legal into the future. 

It's the most popular around here, and the yards kinda push it.  But most of the boats are >15kt fishing boats that spend more time out of the water than in it.  I don't know if it's antifouling enough, or ablative enough, for slower sailboats that are in the water all the time.

If it works it's appealing, so keep us posted.  I'd be impressed if it works as well as Micron 66 did in the PNW.

 

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13 hours ago, blurocketsmate said:

It's the most popular around here, and the yards kinda push it.  But most of the boats are >15kt fishing boats that spend more time out of the water than in it.  I don't know if it's antifouling enough, or ablative enough, for slower sailboats that are in the water all the time.

If it works it's appealing, so keep us posted.  I'd be impressed if it works as well as Micron 66 did in the PNW.

 

I tried Micron CSC (the version of 66 available in Canada) on the sailboat and is sucked - no hard growth but a thick layer of slime built up quickly. Trinidad SR with Irgarol much better. The Hydrocoat Eco worked fine on the trawler for hard growth and anywhere the sun didn't shine, but where the sun hit the bottom paint there was algae growth by the end of the summer than looked like Cousin It. And it did not just rub right off, firmly rooted in the paint. By the time you scrubbed it enough to remove the hair, the paint was just about gone. I cruise this boat at 7.3 knots, so sailboat speeds.I'm going to try it again, this time using Hydrocoat non-Eco with the copper at least on the bits that get sunlight. Its ease of application and recoat, plus no effect of storage on the hard is the appeal to me.  

Hydrocoat outside the chine and rolling chock where the sun shines. This is after just 4 months, 1' strings of algae:

pjVyauX.jpg

Hydrocoat Eco inside the chine and rolling chock where the sun doesn't shine, perfectly clean:

6icE2AI.jpg

Didn't affect the speed noticeably. Some sort of sharkskin effect? Or just the Cummins 380 horsepower engine....

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13 minutes ago, DDW said:

I tried Micron CSC (the version of 66 available in Canada) on the sailboat and is sucked...

Micron CSC and Micron 66 are two completely different products, regardless of where they are sold.

 

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3 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

Micron CSC and Micron 66 are two completely different products, regardless of where they are sold.

 

Well that's good, because CSC isn't a very effective product. Which do you think is more effective against slime in SF Bay - Micron 66 or Trinidad SR with Irgarol?

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4 minutes ago, DDW said:

Well that's good, because CSC isn't a very effective product. Which do you think is more effective against slime in SF Bay - Micron 66 or Trinidad SR with Irgarol?

These are the only anti fouling products I ever recommend but if I had to choose, I'd say that Micron 66 has the superior anti fouling performance.

 

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3 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

These are the only anti fouling products I ever recommend but if I had to choose, I'd say that Micron 66 has the superior anti fouling performance.

Also less labor at haulout time, if weight and finish are important.

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Practically, how do you recoat Micron 66? On the Trinidad, I've sanded the old paint smooth then recoated. The Micron CSC wasn't so soft that you could scrub it smooth but was soft enough that sanding it was difficult. I'd like to at least remove the stipple/brush strokes from the last painting. What do you do to the Micron to keep the bottom smooth?

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Thanks @DDW

I don't know what the Bellingham yard did with recoating Micron 66, if they sanded or scrubbed or what. 

On haulouts - every 2 years - it looked worn, as if it had ablated (or been scrubbed) off.  By the end of the second season we got more algae at the waterline, which I had to scrub if we were stationary a few days.  Our neighbor kept it scrubbed over the winter, and we had a diver every 2-3 months too.  Otherwise the bottom stayed clean while the boat was used.  There may have been a few tiny barnacles at haulout.  A sailboat yes, but we spent far more time motoring at 8kt.

It worked for the owner so he stuck with it.  Normal haulouts were ~$2000 for a 50' boat with a fin keel.

For my own boat, if I ever get it in the water, I'll use Trinidad with Irgarol if it'll be left in for more than a year, and it'll be OK in fresh water too.  Otherwise I don't know, so I keep reading all this. 

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I have tried a few of the copper free paints on the rudder of my boat.  Last year, I used ePaint ZO and there was so much grass by the end of the season that I think the active ingredient must be Rogaine.  I had better luck with Petit Hydrocoat Eco but by the end of the summer it wasn't as effective as the copper ablative paint on the rest of the hull. 

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If the Micron 66 really did ablate, and wear smooth, then it seems like you could just scrub it good with Scotchbrite and recoat. The CSC did not do that, but I was only in the water for about 6 months. Trinidad does not change physically, the boat yards around here seem to just scuff it lightly and reapply, after which it has a good chance of falling off (as everything between the stipple points and brush strokes is untouched). But sanding it out properly is something like 20 hours of unpleasantness. Also Trinidad does not lay down particularly smooth, thin it a bit more than they say, then roll it on and tip it off. That was nice about Hydrocoat, it lays out pretty good. 

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4 hours ago, DDW said:

Practically, how do you recoat Micron 66? 

I tie the boat into a slip at the yard. Say 'Hi' to the people there. Go home for a few days. In theory most of the Micron 66 is gone by haulout time. Mine is at 3 1/2 years. Needs haulout very soon. Not much sailing. Cleaned monthly. 

I think they sand it lightly. I recall that is what the can says. It should be smooth already but one wants to get any growth out of low spots and some of the paint "oxidizes" or something...blackens. That needs to go too.

I think my yard sprays it on. But if the instructions are followed exactly (which many yards don't do) it can be quite smooth without sanding.

If you want a perfect bottom for many years you need to pay/negotiate the extra days for complete dry coats under the pads and keel. Makes a huge difference.

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^^^ Likely they just scrubbed it. Based on our costs, they weren't spending much time on it.

Good point about sanding the Trinidad.

 

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15 hours ago, El Borracho said:

I tie the boat into a slip at the yard. Say 'Hi' to the people there. Go home for a few days. In theory most of the Micron 66 is gone by haulout time. Mine is at 3 1/2 years. Needs haulout very soon. Not much sailing. Cleaned monthly. 

I think they sand it lightly. I recall that is what the can says. It should be smooth already but one wants to get any growth out of low spots and some of the paint "oxidizes" or something...blackens. That needs to go too.

I'd pay a yard to do it and have done so on occasion, but have been universally disappointed in the result. I can do a much better job. It isn't work I look forward to but hate to pay and get a substandard product. 

If it really does polish smooth with use, then sanding would be much easier as most of the stipple/brush strokes/orange peel would be gone. It is getting through that on Trinidad that takes the time.

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Well...if you paint it yourself there should not be any stipple/brush strokes/orange peel. Right?

The main point of sanding is the associated close inspection. There are invariably some defects from critters/collisions/chipping. Up close and personal light sanding finds them.

A good yard will spray it on very smooth. Not so sure Micron 66 polishes smooth in typical sailing. It does with gentle cleaning though. Like I said above a perfect bottom job lasts almost 4 years. Versus the local unskilled boatyard barely 2. Mostly due to uneven rollering and improper coverage of pad areas. Worth the small extra cost. And a DIYer can certainly do a perfect long lasting job too with careful rollering and extra days.

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I get good results by painting Trinidad with foam roller.
 

What little stippling I get is quickly smoothed by cleaning/use. Cleaning: In north Gulf waters, 1x/mo was sufficient. In FL keys, every 2 wks. My cleaning is either just a glove wipe or  white 3M pad.

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2 hours ago, El Borracho said:

Well...if you paint it yourself there should not be any stipple/brush strokes/orange peel. Right?

 

Not unless you sand it afterwards! Never tried spraying but I'd still expect orange peel.

2 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

I get good results by painting Trinidad with foam roller.

I tried several rollers including foam, and thinned a couple of ways. Was still smoother after I tipped it off. 

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2 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

I get good results by painting Trinidad with foam roller.
 

What little stippling I get is quickly smoothed by cleaning/use. Cleaning: In north Gulf waters, 1x/mo was sufficient. In FL keys, every 2 wks. My cleaning is either just a glove wipe or  white 3M pad.

Exactly this, although I use a regular 1/4" nap roller.  It's a relatively smooth finish, not glassy but maybe 220 grit sandpaper texture, but not abrasive / as frictiony as that?  After two or three cleanings - a good idea monthly even if you aren't racing in the Chesapeake - it's pretty smooth.  With a quick haul out you could more or less burnish it.  With equivalent sails we're competitive with the VC Offshore and Baltoplate boats in our OD class, even when the paint is fresh. The last couple years we haven't had any major growth even in a 5-6 week vacation from bottom cleaning... mild green slime is all we've gotten, and the bottom cleaners will agree to a last minute quick clean because of that - but not for Baltoplate if they are pressed for time.  Your mileage may vary in a different marine ecosystem.   

The only tricks in roller application are to (1) rough sand with 80 grit prior to painting; (2) do the hard racing bottom work when fairing rather than trying for perfect paint; (3) use enough paint on the roller or it will get gritty textured orange peel surface; and (4) add 2-3 ounces of Petit Brushing Thinner per gallon, that works wonders in making it a smooth application.  There's no secret except the better your fairing prep, the better the paint comes out.  It takes 2-3 rollers and a full gallon for a J/35.  I usually reserve a small jar of the paint because the fresh paint inevitably reveals a half dozen small flaws in the fairing, and a little touchup is required.  

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