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re screecher, even the factory supplied ones go up wind, once you are cracked off a few degrees they work.

With a barber hauler they can go deepish.

I agree furling spins, can go wrong and then you are in trouble

furling jibs severely compromise the size

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You've probably done your research already, but you might have noticed that there are several 24 foot Corsair models. Each one is different is some subtile and not so subtile ways. The first gene

There has been a similar discussion about the way our boats behave on the new Fboats forum and I resisted answering as (believe it or not) I resisted here. For my 2c worth after owning/steering a

Stonking sounds about right... You have to try hard to get the bow out all the way to the daggerboard in flat water on these boats!

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Ok ,

Email inquiry sent regarding tiller mod. I also have an inquiry into raymarine about tiller pilot.

Nex question.

I was told that it is common practice to reef the main using the furling system that wraps the  main around the boom. It seems like a good idea, but the sail has a reef point built into it. Should i just reef using the furling method or should i reef with proper reef lines? I guess my biggest concern is not having an out-haul in place at the clew when reefed.. But this may not matter since the sail is fully battened. Thoughts?

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3 hours ago, We are Rimas! said:

Ok ,

Email inquiry sent regarding tiller mod. I also have an inquiry into raymarine about tiller pilot.

Nex question.

I was told that it is common practice to reef the main using the furling system that wraps the  main around the boom. It seems like a good idea, but the sail has a reef point built into it. Should i just reef using the furling method or should i reef with proper reef lines? I guess my biggest concern is not having an out-haul in place at the clew when reefed.. But this may not matter since the sail is fully battened. Thoughts?

You don’t really reef with the boom crank, you reef like any other boat, but roll up the slack around the boom ( if your main sheet is attached to the end of the boom, there are some boats that the main attaches to a fixed point right above the traveler and they just slab reef like any other boat).  Your reef points will have one at the luff and one at the leach to control the sail tension and shape once reefed.

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if sailing and thinking you are going to need a reef, before you set out put a sail tie or rope on the top of the mainsheet bail so its ready for the reef point.
The issue is when reefing both boom and leach are free in the wind...BTDT

 

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Furling spins can cause issues...continuous furling line can part; hardware failure of the furling system; wrap in different directions on top down furlers; loose furl at the top in bottom up furling spins....but to get the most fun out of the boat a spinnaker is necessary.  Without crew, flying spin without furling is a butt clenching activity-especially during launch and takedown and even more so in traffic during a race.  Suggest you take experienced crew and let them drive while you launch, retrieve, gybe.  Try different takedowns...DDW first and a gybe drop.  Once familiar with sailing with one, you probably won't want to sail without one; then get a furler so you can do it alone.  I know you said you wanted a screacher in lieu of spin...you'll be missing out IMO.  And if you do decide to get a furling spin or furling system for a spin...look up reviews on the anti-torque line being used...there are a lot of crap anti-torque lines in the marketplace (which is why I make my own).

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29 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

make your own anti torque rope, interesting

It is easy enough to do.  BUT, homemade is less flexible so you take up more storage when not in use.  If you are doing a top down spin, then you don't need a lot of strength in the torque rope, so I use solid braid polyester that i sheath (use an electricians fish) with plastic irrigation drip tube.  "Fix" the tubing to the rope with a heat gun in about 4 spots (or you can sew it).  If you are making a torque rope to insert into the luff of an asymspin for bottom up furling--you need something a little less stretchy so buy a higher tech rope and sheath the same way.  When you store it, you will need more room since the tubing can't (won't) be able to coil in a small diameter (figure about 4 feet hoops).  Beats paying $10 a foot for something that doesn't work as well.

 

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On 10/24/2018 at 4:00 PM, We are Rimas! said:

Ok ,

Email inquiry sent regarding tiller mod. I also have an inquiry into raymarine about tiller pilot.

Nex question.

I was told that it is common practice to reef the main using the furling system that wraps the  main around the boom. It seems like a good idea, but the sail has a reef point built into it. Should i just reef using the furling method or should i reef with proper reef lines? I guess my biggest concern is not having an out-haul in place at the clew when reefed.. But this may not matter since the sail is fully battened. Thoughts?

When rolling the main onto the boom the boom height is important. Raised boom above perpendicular to mast and the sail will spool further away from the goose neck which will help ease the chafe on the teflon tape. Also it will give you outhaul if you don't feel like lashing the leach reef point   down to the boom in a combat reefing situation. 

A flater cut screecher is also great fun upwind in light air. Over sheet the main a little. It will help the luff tension. At about 6 knots of boat speed go back to the jib as the lift to drag math starts working against you.

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So we took the boat sailing on Saturday. The wind was light, but it was perfect to go out with the family. We tacked all the way up the (Alameda) estuary passing all the other sailboats who were doing the same thing.  We definitely like the boat and it really easy to sail. We didn't use the spinnaker at all as I'm really the only one who knows how to sail.  My 15 year old is a good deck hand. I cant wait for a little more wind to see what this boat can do.

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On 10/26/2018 at 8:32 AM, MultiThom said:

Furling spins can cause issues...continuous furling line can part; hardware failure of the furling system; wrap in different directions on top down furlers; loose furl at the top in bottom up furling spins....but to get the most fun out of the boat a spinnaker is necessary.  Without crew, flying spin without furling is a butt clenching activity-especially during launch and takedown and even more so in traffic during a race.  Suggest you take experienced crew and let them drive while you launch, retrieve, gybe.  Try different takedowns...DDW first and a gybe drop.  Once familiar with sailing with one, you probably won't want to sail without one; then get a furler so you can do it alone.  I know you said you wanted a screacher in lieu of spin...you'll be missing out IMO.  And if you do decide to get a furling spin or furling system for a spin...look up reviews on the anti-torque line being used...there are a lot of crap anti-torque lines in the marketplace (which is why I make my own).

The boat has a spinnaker. I haven't had it out of the bag yet, but I'm assuming it is an asym.  We will work our way up to it. Hopefully my son and i can crew on another boat to see how it goes (although I have flown one on my dads 4ksb). But I can see that things happen really fast on a corsair as opposed to a 4ksb.

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55 minutes ago, We are Rimas! said:

The boat has a spinnaker. I haven't had it out of the bag yet, but I'm assuming it is an asym.  We will work our way up to it. Hopefully my son and i can crew on another boat to see how it goes (although I have flown one on my dads 4ksb). But I can see that things happen really fast on a corsair as opposed to a 4ksb.

Happens fast in big wind...this time of year, not so much.  Estuary is good spot to play between now and Feb but check the forecast (it is cold tho).  With sprit out and sailing ddw (let someone else drive) and mainsail out all the way (for wind shadow), hoist the spin from the net (you can kinda control the spin as it goes up like a snake), once up, pull the tack to the sprit end, then sheet--simple; especially in light wind.  Douse the reverse...go ddw with mainsail blanketing the spin, go out to the net and grab lazy sheet, release the guy (tack) and gather foot of spin so you have a snake, release halyard and pull down into the bag.  Again, simple and easy in light wind.  Before trying first hoist, though, make sure the spin is not twisted in the bag--if you hoist and it twists, bring it back and try again-in light wind.

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On 10/30/2018 at 9:12 AM, We are Rimas! said:

The boat has a spinnaker. I haven't had it out of the bag yet, but I'm assuming it is an asym.  We will work our way up to it. Hopefully my son and i can crew on another boat to see how it goes (although I have flown one on my dads 4ksb). But I can see that things happen really fast on a corsair as opposed to a 4ksb.

Rimas,

Couple of comments regarding the spinnaker. First - Don't fear the spinnaker! F-boats are remarkably easy to operate with the kite in just about any conditions. Because the boat is so wide and it has netting practically to the bow, it's really hard to put the kite in the water (bad). In 10 years of racing F-27s/F-25Cs/F-24s in all conditions we have put the kite in the water exactly zero times. With a little common sense and heads up sailing, you'll find it quite easy. 

Second - I've had both a normal spinnaker and a furling spinnaker on my F-24. The furling kite is way more trouble than it's worth. It seems like a great idea, especially for single-handing, but the devil is always in the details. When something goes wrong, it's a nightmare and having a half furled kite wrapped around your headstay, in any kind of breeze, it a great way to really fuck a boat up. My recommendation is to go out with someone experienced with the boats and give it a try with the normal setup. You'll find the 10-20 seconds it take to hoist/douse are no big deal. It's is by far much harder on a keel/sport boat in my opinion.

Third - Always try to do windward or gybe (aka Mexican) douses. This greatly reduces the chance you'll put it in the water and keeps you and/or your crew on the weather side of the boat where things are peaceful and dry. Use dual bags, one on each side of the boat so you have the option of dousing on either side without the added chore of moving the bag. Organize your lines. I can't emphasize this enough. Seriously. A bad douse or hoist always starts with one or more lines getting hung up or tangled. Always separate and back-tail the halyard and tack line and check the sheets before dousing or hoisting. For single-handing this is uber important.

Fourth - While flying the kite in breezy conditions it is extremely important to keep the boat flat and moving as fast as possible. When the boat slows down or heels excessively, that's where you can get into trouble. It is much safer to get rid of the kite than to try to reach while over powered. 

Trust me on this. Once you get a little kite time under your belt you'll absolutely love it. Since you are in Alameda, one of the best runs is from the Golden Gate to the Estuary on a flood tide with 15kts of wind. It will be exciting going down the City Front and get nice and pleasant once you enter the Estuary and the breeze tapers off. You'll love it.

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RE:  "Third"...gybe drop or mexican douse.  For this to work well your halyards have GOT to run easily through the clutch.  It was my default drop in races whenever the course would let me and I had crew.  It is even the best way to get out of a problem when your furling sprit sail fails to furl when single handed.  BUT, I do not recommend trying it without crew and practice.  So wait a year or more (or 50 douses, whichever comes first). 

Can't do it on my SeaRail, though, since there aren't any bow nets nor a pulpit; has a crowned foredeck that is only 2 feet wide (that is, MOB if anyone goes forward of the mast).  After a year with the SeaRail, if the furling spin screws up, I'm just screwed.  About the biggest concern I have with the boat.

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20 hours ago, MultiThom said:

Can't do it on my SeaRail, though, since there aren't any bow nets nor a pulpit; has a crowned foredeck that is only 2 feet wide (that is, MOB if anyone goes forward of the mast).

The boat in the video has no bow nets or pulpit either, and the crew never needs to go to the fordeck for the douse (windward or leeward).

-MH

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5 hours ago, Multihauler said:

The boat in the video has no bow nets or pulpit either, and the crew never needs to go to the fordeck for the douse (windward or leeward).

-MH

Well, that's true (but that sure looks like an F27 which has pulpit and bow nets on most of them).  But that isn't what I call a gybe drop since there wasn't a gybe==mebe that's the difference between mexican and gybe drop..  Sure, in 5 kts breeze you can haul the foot in to windward while standing on the nets.  No hu-hu.  But you are already on the same point of sail and just need to head up to point higher round the mark.  

What I did with crew was a bit different.  Say you are on stbd gybe with main and spin heading on a broad reach--can't send crew to lee net--you'd bury the float in any decent breeze.  And you want to be on port tack after you round.  SO, as you approach the mark you pull jib out on stbd side (backwinded).  Sheet spin in tight.  As you round to head upwind on port tack, you release the spin halyard (which is why I said halyard has to run free).  Spin falls onto the new high side so you can pack it away once you release the guy.  Sometimes the head of the spin flys into the gap between jib and mainsail, which is why you might need to go to the foredeck to retrieve it.  Was a really reliable and fast takedown especially in big wind.   But your timing has to be good-which is why you need to practice.

 

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The boat in the video is Multihauler's F-25c. Like he said, there are no forward nets and there is no bow pulpit. It is actually really scary to be on the front of that boat in any kind of seaway (ask me how I know). All the douses are simple windward (aka weather) douses and it doesn't matter if it is blowing 5kts or 25kts, it's the same procedure. In fact, the more it is blowing the more important it is to plan for a windward or gybe douse. You completely eliminate the risk of the kite getting washed off the boat and causing a sudden and dangerous stop. I haven't checked, but @Multihauler may have some video of gybe (aka Mexican) douses, which are actually easier since you don't have to drag the clew around the headstay. You just blow the tack and halyard and the whole mess falls into the net.

On my F-24 single-handed I almost always windward doused. The only difference is once the clew is around the headstay and in control, I would blow the tack and halyard at the same time. The kite is much smaller on the F-24 and Sprints, and both have forward nets, so it really is much easier and safer than a leeward drop. If something goes wrong, all the messy bits are on the windward side of the boat and can be sorted out without the risk of shrimping the kite. 

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4 hours ago, bhyde said:

The boat in the video is Multihauler's F-25c. Like he said, there are no forward nets and there is no bow pulpit. It is actually really scary to be on the front of that boat in any kind of seaway (ask me how I know). All the douses are simple windward (aka weather) douses and it doesn't matter if it is blowing 5kts or 25kts, it's the same procedure. In fact, the more it is blowing the more important it is to plan for a windward or gybe douse. You completely eliminate the risk of the kite getting washed off the boat and causing a sudden and dangerous stop. I haven't checked, but @Multihauler may have some video of gybe (aka Mexican) douses, which are actually easier since you don't have to drag the clew around the headstay. You just blow the tack and halyard and the whole mess falls into the net.

On my F-24 single-handed I almost always windward doused. The only difference is once the clew is around the headstay and in control, I would blow the tack and halyard at the same time. The kite is much smaller on the F-24 and Sprints, and both have forward nets, so it really is much easier and safer than a leeward drop. If something goes wrong, all the messy bits are on the windward side of the boat and can be sorted out without the risk of shrimping the kite. 

Did not know F25C and F27 looked so similar from the back.  Good to know.  

I stopped single handed dousing the spin/screach once I started making my own anti torque line.  I also made the spins and screachers so I incorporated the lines into the luffs.  Really reliable furling is important in the SSS races since I could never really trust my autohelm (damn battery always died when I most needed the thing).  I use top down furling on the SeaRail since the spin is SO FLAT and the courses I sail are mostly wind-lee, I had to do something to allow some deeper driving or I might just as well be using the jib.  Top down is a slower furl but more reliable if you keep the spin up since the top won't unfurl.  It does, however, put more stress on the furling line splice so you have to inspect/change it more often.

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19 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

Did not know F25C and F27 looked so similar from the back.  Good to know.  

 

They really don't.  Boomless vs not. Updated beam joints vs not.  Rotating rig vs not.  Cabin top shrouds vs  not ( and check stay tensioners). Updated beam shape, float shape, float hatch access vs not and on and on BUT....

I still love my F27!!!  And miss her.

Nice douses BTW @Multihauler.

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26 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

Did not know F25C and F27 looked so similar from the back.  Good to know.  

Kind of a standing joke with Multihauler and me is that every F-boat looks like an F-27. No matter what boat we're looking at, I always say the same thing, "Looks like an F-27." It never is.

Big difference between the F-25c and the F-27 - Half the weight. Mojo is an astonishing 1800lbs ready to sail. 

Both boats are great. Here's a situation where an F-27 is just the ticket.

I was on my F-24 about a 1/4 mile to starboard single-handing. That was a workout.

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On 11/17/2018 at 7:07 AM, Loose Cannon said:

Would love to know more about how you set up the f242 for singlehanded racing.   Vids are best to see how it all works.  Thx

As far as layout of the boat, there is very little to do. Most F-24IIs have the lines lead aft, so there is nothing to do there. The spinnaker halyard and tack line should be on the port cabin top in front of the port cabin top winch to make dropping the kite on the port side easier. Other than that, a roller boom and roller jib are pretty standard items.

The real issue with single-handing the boat isn't so much the layout, but being able to let go of the tiller for short periods of time to do important things like trim the jib, drop the kite, reef, etc. I used a "three prong" approach that included a very long, lightweight tiller extension, a bungie cord over the tiller, and a tiller auto pilot.

The helm on the F-24II is so light that when you let go, it just kind of goes wherever it wants and the boat wonders all over the place. This is not good for single-handing and makes you look like a fucking idiot to anyone that doesn't realize you're all alone. That's where the bungie cord comes into play. It goes over the top of the tiller and connects to the cockpit sides (think upside-down V). The tiller just slides freely under the bungie but has enough tension to hold the tiller in place when you let go. You can still easily steer the boat, but when you let go of the tiller, it stays where you put it. Now you're able to use both hands for a few seconds to trim the jib or open a beer. It makes all the difference in the world.

The tiller extension I used was a light, flexible 5/8" x 8' fiberglass pole of fixed length. This allowed me to steer the boat from just about anywhere aft of the main shrouds. Except for reefing, you really never need to go forward of the main shrouds, and never in front of the mast unless there is an issue (there will be). When dropping the kite, I would just take the tiller extension with me out to the spinnaker bag and steer while gathering and stuffing.

Between the bungie and long tiller extension, you can pretty much handle the boat in most non-life threatening conditions. If you have some extra cash laying around (who doesn't?), then a tiller auto pilot is also pretty handy. You don't use it much sailing, but when you're raising and lowering the sails or motoring to/from the harbor or dealing with some catastrophe or just taking a piss off the back, it's nice to have. The newer stuff with a handheld remote would be ideal.

Sorry for the length, but that's about it. Once you've done it a few times, it's really not a big deal. All the normal maneuvers are the same except they take longer, look like a retard is doing them, and you get really tired.

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I was singlehanding my tri the other day, trying to set the spin and fix some inevitably tangled lines and thinking, in the most eloquent words of Mr. BHyde, that I certainly must look like a "fucking idiot" as my vessel sailed itself happily to and fro.  My only suggestion being that practice and plenty of searoom are your friends.

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6 minutes ago, mundt said:

I was singlehanding my tri the other day, trying to set the spin and fix some inevitably tangled lines and thinking, in the most eloquent words of Mr. BHyde, that I certainly must look like a "fucking idiot" as my vessel sailed itself happily to and fro.  My only suggestion being that practice and plenty of searoom are your friends.

I wish there were some international flag you could fly that indicates you are single-handing. Maybe something with a zig-zag on it to let people know you're not having an epileptic seizure, but roughly approximating what would normally be called "sailing" without the benefit of the extra hands that come conveniently attached people who, for some reason, now refuse to be trapped with you for extended periods on a small boat. That would be very useful for just about everyone involved.

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6 minutes ago, bhyde said:

I wish there were some international flag you could fly that indicates you are single-handing. Maybe something with a zig-zag on it to let people know you're not having an epileptic seizure, but roughly approximating what would normally be called "sailing" without the benefit of the extra hands that come conveniently attached people who, for some reason, now refuse to be trapped with you for extended periods on a small boat. That would be very useful for just about everyone involved.

Well, if you have the time to fly a signal for vessel not under command...you might just as well get the vessel under command. :)

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I single handed my F242 pretty much similarly to Bhyde.  Over the years, though,   I did carry more sails and made things easier/more effective for racing.  I had roller furling jib (no foil; hank on jib), roller furling windseeker, roller furling screacher, roller furling asymspin.  Mainsail on slugs (I'd changed masts to one 4 foot taller).  Rigged an around the boat tiller tamer in lieu of tiller extension in lighter breeze, but had tiller extension for bigger breeze sailing.  Mostly used autohelm though when I had to leave tiller to do something essential.  Of course, the damn thing's battery died frequently (I had it set up with its own battery, but not enough amp-hours....today's li-ion batteries would be better than what I had back then).   Had the remote autohelm, but never used it.  Problem with autohelm is you have to disconnect the whole thing in order to steer manually...takes time that makes things scary if your autohelm is operating erratically going downwind with spin up (which is mostly when it didn't work right).  F242 is a forgiving boat fortunately-even with taller mast.

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Furlers are amazing when they work and can make an amazing mess when they don't.  Singlehanding successfully is a combination of skill and luck.  Look at the drama in this year's route of rum.  Even the elite can come unglued in spectacular fashion.

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8 minutes ago, mundt said:

Furlers are amazing when they work and can make an amazing mess when they don't.  Singlehanding successfully is a combination of skill and luck.  Look at the drama in this year's route of rum.  Even the elite can come unglued in spectacular fashion.

Well, I'd say preparation and skill, no luck involved - now if you mean racing successfully; then luck is a factor ...fortunately, I made my own anti torque lines as well as my own sails so they got pretty bulletproof.  Never had a furler fail in a race nor had a sail fail to furl "enough" in a race.  Had plenty of "oops's" when testing things out though.  Broke the bow off my boat more than once...dismasted more than once...crap happens over 12 years and 6K miles under the keel (well, daggerboard). 

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Thom my tiller pilot was connected to the tiller by a hole in the end of the ram which fit over the supplied pin that you bolt to the top of the tiller.  To engage or disengage you simply lift the ram off the pin and pivoted the whole unit a few inches to the side.  Kind of like lifting the arm off a record on an old fashion turntable.  Simple

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1 hour ago, eric1207 said:

Thom my tiller pilot was connected to the tiller by a hole in the end of the ram which fit over the supplied pin that you bolt to the top of the tiller.  To engage or disengage you simply lift the ram off the pin and pivoted the whole unit a few inches to the side.  Kind of like lifting the arm off a record on an old fashion turntable.  Simple

Yah, mine did too, except that the other end of the pilot was a pin inserted into a hole on a slanted surface so if you didn't remove it completely it can (and did) rotate aft and fall out and start being streamed behiind the boat until it finally fell off.  Plus, taking the arm off took me back to the aft end of the boat, facing backwards while I've probably just left in a hurry while my spinnaker is trying like hell to drive the lee float underwater (once the main hull as well).  Sorry, but autohelms are nice when they work right.  Not so good when the battery is down, big wind, spin up and in traffic during a race.  Love-hate relationship.

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Thom,   My AP pivot point was on the slanted stern also.  However it was mounted on a beveled bracket that made a flat, level surface so it would not rotate if the ram was removed from the tiller pin.  It might move a little but never enough to fall out.  I suppose I could take a pic of it if anyone is interested.

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Multithom, a sailor that doesn't believe in luck?  The more time I spend on the ocean the more I believe in luck.  Ask Gabart or Hugo Boss, Coville, or Lecleach.  Thousands of hours of careful, experienced prep and kabloooey, feces hits fan!  I've paddled out on a big day right next to another bloke and one of us makes it out and the other gets driven back up on the beach, mere inches separating success from failure.  You should have seen me weeping like a little girl this last Saturday when the wind went to 0.0 just as I approached the weather mark in a little race.  Waaaaa! Waaaa!  Luck!!!!!!  Waaaaa!!!!

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15 minutes ago, mundt said:

Multithom, a sailor that doesn't believe in luck?  The more time I spend on the ocean the more I believe in luck.  Ask Gabart or Hugo Boss, Coville, or Lecleach.  Thousands of hours of careful, experienced prep and kabloooey, feces hits fan!  I've paddled out on a big day right next to another bloke and one of us makes it out and the other gets driven back up on the beach, mere inches separating success from failure.  You should have seen me weeping like a little girl this last Saturday when the wind went to 0.0 just as I approached the weather mark in a little race.  Waaaaa! Waaaa!  Luck!!!!!!  Waaaaa!!!!

Could not agree more.  Luck has often been my last line of defense.  

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On 11/17/2018 at 7:07 AM, Loose Cannon said:

Would love to know more about how you set up the f242 for singlehanded racing.   Vids are best to see how it all works.  Thx

Not sure how useful this will be but I've got a few vids of doing the Cowichan Bay regatta single-handed my 242 a couple years ago. Not much specific setup: extra long tiller extension with bungee wrapped around the tiller (the trick is to get the tension right), I don't have a tiller pilot. I also don't currently have a jib furler so there's some extra acrobatics and messing around at the roundings (definitely need to get one for single handed sailing as it's a real pain). One thing I try to do as well right after a tack is setup the winch for the next tack (especially useful when on port...). It helped that it was pretty light on both days.

Here's the start (got a little boom kiss to wake me up at 30s in):
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOKgWG_agM22rkKY1wOQvF3T9REcF2N9RwDpthRdLU4_sfXVDDsraD9K6h8zuSwLw?key=WEVJeGpudzR6cUJwYldEVVJ6bEl3bnZPWTlBZnRR

Top mark rounding, a useful trick when doing a lot of sail changes is to just drop the screecher only a couple of feet so you can gybe the spinnaker easily and deal with later (in this case I was a bit distracted and didn't cleat it in so it fell around 1:55  and I had to deal with it), or put it back up 2 min later when the wind shifts again (the wind is usually fickle around here...):

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMWKO5fxcy_7UUwLuk_a-lDle_YG3JmxNCC2EbvQeywjXFwHRTtOsTwmOKTAh2p2Q?key=YlZaZEZWcEdwWUVmeHhBZ09OU3pyM2tuSE8tWFJR

Bottom mark rounding, that was the first one of the regatta so I was very conservative and dropped too early (I was trying not to rely too much on luck for that one...) not sure what I thought I was doing with the spin halyard cleated in BEFORE the winch so don't ask! I like having the halyard around the winch to stop it from falling too fast so that was intentional! Jamming the tiller extension between your toes can also be helpful for small course corrections during take downs (I do it around 2:18 but it's just off the bottom of the screen)!
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOU8SRZETdoICNjBOcWhY3AX5RpofXRT89UYiQSggO_DiSikeYSX-pmC9LnI2aYhQ?key=ZHF6YU54eVV5V2VZbnVBMmd0NXFkbDgtektIdHln

 

Bonus track: timelapse from another top mark rounding (meant to do a video but just messed up with the GoPro)

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOOOOVGve2CizykcPXxDu6cjHFVepZGO4YFd8ODd_xfbcUYxhlb3IAvlTCVpU5_Lg/photo/AF1QipNFizfb0JQ_rya0F7_dRxoxDYzGzBUB5eyHADSF?key=LVNLMWxocnJ4TkFueUltTnFxdFVlTTRxb2MwR3Bn

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9 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Could not agree more.  Luck has often been my last line of defense.  

Since you guys believe in luck...here's my favorite quote from one of my favorite authors..."Luck is a word used by the incompetent to describe the workings of genius."   People have always told me I'm lucky...you get where I'm going with this, right?

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1 hour ago, MultiThom said:

"Luck is a word used by the incompetent to describe the workings of genius."

Yeah... but, especially when it comes to sailing, you can't control all the variables so you use skills and preparation to "make your luck happen" but there is still a significant part of the outcome that is decided by "luck" or "fate" or whatever you want to call it.

Hitting a log or whale or something in the middle of the night (or not) and the amount of damage it causes has very little to do with skills or prep.

Also when, when someone says some one else won thanks to luck, it sounds bad but when someone claims they won only due to their skill, it sounds just as bad... 

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Big animal of some sort off the coast of Mexico at night doing 15-18 knots under spinnaker.  Was it bad luck that we hit it?  Good luck that nothing broke?  You should have seen the look on the face of the guy who was asleep in the cabin when he came scrambling up outta there.

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On 11/21/2018 at 8:13 PM, MultiThom said:

Mainsail on slugs (I'd changed masts to one 4 foot taller).  .  F242 is a forgiving boat fortunately-even with taller mast.

Tell me about the taller mast.  Is that sprint length then? Did the balance change? Did it drive the leeward ama under more?

i am considering a boat for east coast USA and inland lakes, all which = light air.  Don’t know if a masthead spinnaker and a big square top main are enough....

thanks all all for the singlehanding advice.  I was thinking dual tiller - skiff style, with a bungie to tame the tiller and one looped at the end of each tiller running through one of the netting loops at the ama to keep them from falling off the back of the boat in a wave.  And a tiller pilot with remote for longer adventures.

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22 hours ago, Airwick said:

Great looking venue and nice fleet!

it seems to me that the 242 is just right size wise for singlehanding or racing with two big or up to 4 little folks.  Out here I have raced them with three big (near 300 kilos of beef) and there was not enough sail area to move the boat along that heavy.

appreciate the 1/2 in. Home Depot pvc pipe tiller extension.  Had that on my a cat and never worried about breaking it.  Hahaha

Thank you for sharing.

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17 hours ago, MultiThom said:

..."Luck is a word used by the incompetent to describe the workings of genius."   People have always told me I'm lucky...you get where I'm going with this, right? 

Wow,  me thinks that somebody spends way too much time in front of a mirror admiring their own image. ;)

You just can't make this shit up.

***R.T.***

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6 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

  I was thinking dual tiller - skiff style, with a bungie to tame the tiller and one looped at the end of each tiller running through one of the netting loops at the ama to keep them from falling off the back of the boat in a wave.

I've put in a dual tiller.   I have tennis ball on the end of each to act as a stopper while they slide  through a bungie loop that hangs from the top back stay pulley . They are suspended around 18 inches above the deck . Not only is this a big improvement over a single tiller but having them hanging like that keeps them out of the way but still handy to grab.

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1 hour ago, The Mad Hatter said:

I've put in a dual tiller.   I have tennis ball on the end of each to act as a stopper while they slide  through a bungie loop that hangs from the top back stay pulley . They are suspended around 18 inches above the deck . Not only is this a big improvement over a single tiller but having them hanging like that keeps them out of the way but still handy to grab.

Aha!

I thought it would be good.  242 doesn’t have the back stay pulleys, but there must be something like your setup that can be applied. Thanks

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10 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

Tell me about the taller mast.  Is that sprint length then? Did the balance change? Did it drive the leeward ama under more?

i

It was a Leneman L-7 section spliced to give overall longer length.  Dunno how the height compared to sprint was.  Did not affect the boat balance, but that could be because I also got rid of square top and used parabolic top on the mainsail.  Truthfully, it hardly made any difference in the boat performance on any point of sail.  I was trying to overcome the "fat main hull 5-10 kt breeze can't get out of it's own way" that the F242 exhibits....didn't do squat for that.  I hafta admit the other reason it was not working out as I had hoped was the fact that I put too little camber in the mainsail and was too lazy to do it over.  About that time I called it quits and sold it.

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3 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

Ok, so change in the line of my question.

what is the best way (besides not buying one) to make a 242 work in wind under 15kts?

 

The boat works well in any wind.  It just has performance similar to any 24 foot boat (monohull) in above 5 and under 10 kt breeze.  I actually was slower downwind than J24s in some races since the course was downwind and he could hug the shore (symspin) while I had to gybe back and forth into the current.   If you aren't racing, you will be happy with the boat.  I kept it for 12 years, so you could say I was happy with one--even racing; but then, we sorta had a one design fleet for a while with 5 F242s locally.  

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On 11/22/2018 at 8:38 AM, mundt said:

Big animal of some sort off the coast of Mexico at night doing 15-18 knots under spinnaker.  Was it bad luck that we hit it?  Good luck that nothing broke?  You should have seen the look on the face of the guy who was asleep in the cabin when he came scrambling up outta there.

I try to avoid all the good/bad luck problems by simply saying, "What could possible go wrong?" to someone right before I leave the dock. It's kind of a win-win no matter what happens. If something really bad happens, like I die or sink a boat*, then witnesses will say, "That moron actually said, 'What could possibly go wrong?' right before he left the dock." Which makes a really great newspaper story and headstone inscription. If nothing happens, well, then I was right and everyone is super impressed with my ability to not earn a Darwin Award.

*That has already happened.

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1 hour ago, MultiThom said:

....., we sorta had a one design fleet for a while with 5 F242s locally.  

5 boats local, that's awesome.  We had (3) 24II's here for awhile that I crewed on and had some good fun.

With a local OD fleet, why the switch to the taller mast?

***R.T.***

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56 minutes ago, Bob's Your Uncle said:

5 boats local, that's awesome.  We had (3) 24II's here for awhile that I crewed on and had some good fun.

With a local OD fleet, why the switch to the taller mast?

***R.T.***

Well, the OD went their own ways like all good things.  Then I went the single handing route with the SSS for a few years...It's a process.  

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1 hour ago, bhyde said:

I try to avoid all the good/bad luck problems by simply saying, "What could possible go wrong?" to someone right before I leave the dock. It's kind of a win-win no matter what happens. If something really bad happens, like I die or sink a boat*, then witnesses will say, "That moron actually said, 'What could possibly go wrong?' right before he left the dock." Which makes a really great newspaper story and headstone inscription. If nothing happens, well, then I was right and everyone is super impressed with my ability to not earn a Darwin Award.

*That has already happened.

Exactly.  One of the things that was drummed into me in the Navy nuke submarine force was the "what happens next" thinking.  What symptoms do you expect to see if this (or that) fails in the reactor (sailboat)?  Here's one of the thought experiments that you can try at home....You are driving your car on a flat freeway with no turns at X mph on cruise control.  You decide to turn on the on board 500 watt entertainment system...describe in detail what happens next before you reach steady state again.  Will you use more gasoline?  If so, how?   If not, how?

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What if a bee gets sucked in the window and stings your eyeball?  What if a bored sociopath throws a brick off the overpass?  What if a sleep deprived trucker smokes a bowl of meth and dumps his load of boiling hydrochloric acid down your sunroof?  Viva la vida!

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9 hours ago, mundt said:

What if a bee gets sucked in the window and stings your eyeball?  What if a bored sociopath throws a brick off the overpass?  What if a sleep deprived trucker smokes a bowl of meth and dumps his load of boiling hydrochloric acid down your sunroof?  Viva la vida!

Back to luck are we?  Like early Christians (or most other religions), they figure that if Good exists and has a figurehead (God), then evil exists so it must have a leader (Devil).  You are saying that since "bad luck" exists, there must also be good luck.  I see your logic, but don't agree.   Shit happens...2nd law of thermogoddamics pretty much guarantees things will go to hell...but things don't get better by themselves, you have to work at it.  Simple to see in real life...your brakes will wear out, they won't fix themselves.

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18 hours ago, mundt said:

What if a bee gets sucked in the window and stings your eyeball?  What if a bored sociopath throws a brick off the overpass?  What if a sleep deprived trucker smokes a bowl of meth and dumps his load of boiling hydrochloric acid down your sunroof?  Viva la vida!

Then you have an excellent superhero origin story. Hahahaa

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  • 3 months later...

First hints of warm coming here in the New York City area.  Besides the collection of 242s up on Great Sacandaga Lake are there any collections of trimarans that race in the area short of Baltimore or Newport?

Thanks

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So we dragged the new boat from alameda to the delta this weekend. I tow a lot of things behind my truck, but this boat and mast overhang the trailer by about 10 or 15 ft. Its pretty crazy. I had a screecher and hardware made up for the boat. It took the sailmaker 4 months to complete the jib.  Lots of lame excuses. But the weather has been too lousy to sail on the weekends so we didn't miss much.  As soon as it gets sunny, we will start sailing it again. We are all excited to start sailing again.  :)

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Quick PSA (well, sorta) - lowered the price on my 2008 Sprint 750 with brand new OB and trailer (and tiller extension) to 33K....

Yeah, I placed a paid ad here. It expired and I tried to place another last week but they seem to have screwed up the software here for placing ads and I was unable to do so (and I only have 24 years internet experience....).......

At 33K with a new Sailpro OB and Trailer I think it is the best priced Sprint in the USA....or maybe the world?

Thanks....if anyone knows anyone......those with patience can take a ride on it in RI after mid-June. It's currently at MHS in MA on the hard. 

https://sprint750forsale.com/

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On 10/12/2018 at 4:20 AM, MultiThom said:

For some reason, multihullers (particularly trimaran owners) stick to polynesian nomenclature.  Vaka=main hull; aka=connecting crossbeams, ama=floats.

Trimarans and catamarans have  been in use for a “thousand years” and yet monohulls with lead keels etc are considered more“traditional” while cats and tris are “those new- fangled gizmos.”

It’s a funny ol’ world. 

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4 hours ago, LionIsland said:

Trimarans and catamarans have  been in use for a “thousand years” and yet monohulls with lead keels etc are considered more“traditional” while cats and tris are “those new- fangled gizmos.”

It’s a funny ol’ world. 

I expect that a raft or a single log was the first "boat".  I wonder what traditionalists will think about the foiling monohulls in the next America's Cup?  Ought to be fun to watch if they can actually work.  

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Fun thread to read.  A few comments:

@We are Rimas!  I have an F31 with pin-top dacron full-batten main by UK Halsey and a rolling boom.  Not a single cringle in the main for reefing, but it sets great roll-furled so I'm fine with that.  I actually don't quite see how the "reef with reef-ties, but roll the excess" would work very effectively without a lot of changes to our setup.  But others may have different setups.  Are you *really* Rimas?  I am in awe.

@MultiThom "thermogoddamics" I love.  That damnable "arrow of time", yes.  But we have to be careful not to mislead folks. The second law only applies to closed systems, and nothing interesting is a closed system.  A really abused and absurd idea, the one that the universe is tending to a uniform dust cloud, used by nihilists and others who take a dim view of the future and don't deeply understand the math and science.  Look around folks.  Emergent order abounds, literally everywhere and at all scales.  Except at certain scales and domains where mankind thinks he is smarter than Nature, and tries to impose order, but, always, in the long term, big picture, will fail.  Imposed order takes energy, emergent order arises from complex systems seeking minimum energy states, and represent the most efficient and natural state of the system.  Witness the emerging failure of all our top-down "ordered systems" like our governments, our financial systems etc.  From the ashes phoenix-like eventually will emerge bottoms-up self-ordered systems to replace them... a thought I first had in the late 80s, thinking about neural networks and witnessing the birth of distributed networking (the internet)... But I digress...

@god: If you are omniscient, then clearly you are not all-powerful.  And if all-powerful, then you do not see clearly.  Or, if both, then you are not a Good God.  No omniscient, omnipotent god would tolerate the amount of evil in this world.

@Lady luck: I studied under brothers who were multiple-time Karate champions.  They won a lot of fights.  Favourite motto?  "The harder I work, the luckier I get."

Good luck all,
ben

PS: I am still hunting for some kind of used downwind sail, potentially to wrap around a Selden GX15 furler I have.  C'mon you racers with infinite cash and thrashed-out spins... sell me your beat up old chute!

 

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2 hours ago, bacq2bacq said:

Fun thread to read.  A few comments:

Good luck all,
ben

PS: I am still hunting for some kind of used downwind sail, potentially to wrap around a Selden GX15 furler I have.  C'mon you racers with infinite cash and thrashed-out spins... sell me your beat up old chute!

 

Hey Ben, lotsa used spins for sale; just do a search.  Then select what luff, leach and foot lengths you need.  You will have to choose luff that is a little shorter than the antitorque line from your furler system (assuming it is top down).  Assuming you have a fixed location for your sheeting turn blocks, you'll have to know the distance from your spin halyard exit to that turn block as well as the distance from your tack point to that turn block...the ratio of those two measurements should be close to the ratio of the leach and foot lengths (makes it easier to trim).  

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3 hours ago, bhyde said:

@We are Rimas! You've had your boat for a while now. Just wondering what you think and if any of the advice has proved worthwhile.

All of the advise has proved worthwhile. Thanks to everyone who chimed in. However the weather has been so torrential in the bay area I haven't bothered to try and use it. The weekend weather has been either a storming downpour or flat calm. The next nice weekend I am going to take it out again. We have currently only sailed it 4 times in under 10 knot winds. But I definitely have the fever to take it out! 

 

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On 3/27/2019 at 1:56 AM, MultiThom said:

I expect that a raft or a single log was the first "boat".  I wonder what traditionalists will think about the foiling monohulls in the next America's Cup?  Ought to be fun to watch if they can actually work.  

I’ve been fortunate enough to go the last two ACs and they were awesome events with amazing boats. The foiling monos or however one can describe them for this event will be really friggin amazing. Good on those crazy innovative kiwis to come up with something as wacky as these things. Wacky as fuck. (I pray no injuries.). 

And to think a few short years ago they were plodding around in those dinasaur 64s. Such a bizarre and rich history in AC- like no other event. 

From the original old thingys. The J’s, the 64s, the Lexen thingy, the big NZ boat v cat,  the 80 footers, the monster multis, 72s, 50’s and now this crazy shit. With all the crazy courtroom and behind the scene controversy it’s a very entertaining circus. 

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  • 1 month later...

Update: We have used the f24 for two weekends now. It has been lots of fun so far. Seems to be good fun for about 2-3 hours at a time.

There is a definite learning curve with this boat. I can see the potential you could get out of this with an experienced crew.  With the really awkward tiller location and ergonomics, it's nearly impossible to singlehand in any sort of breeze. I have been relying on my eldest at 15yo to help with the jib sheets. We willb e much better off when the rest of the family is better trained to perform 'sailing' tasks.

I am also focusing on installing a proper reefing system other than the 'roller boom method' so we can sail more comfortably in the gusty weather we experience in the delta.

I have only run aground once where we came to an abrupt halt- not fun. 

And we have seen 13.0 knots out of it.

image.png.8742e8eedd4d4ea998bd349712b54552.png

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1 hour ago, We are Rimas! said:

Update: We have used the f24 for two weekends now. It has been lots of fun so far. Seems to be good fun for about 2-3 hours at a time.

There is a definite learning curve with this boat. I can see the potential you could get out of this with an experienced crew.  With the really awkward tiller location and ergonomics, it's nearly impossible to singlehand in any sort of breeze. I have been relying on my eldest at 15yo to help with the jib sheets. We willb e much better off when the rest of the family is better trained to perform 'sailing' tasks.

I am also focusing on installing a proper reefing system other than the 'roller boom method' so we can sail more comfortably in the gusty weather we experience in the delta.

I have only run aground once where we came to an abrupt halt- not fun. 

And we have seen 13.0 knots out of it.

image.png.8742e8eedd4d4ea998bd349712b54552.png

Do you have the Corsair manual for the boat and have you read it? Not slagging on you it’s a good and useful document even for the experienced. 

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3 minutes ago, Wess said:

Do you have the Corsair manual for the boat and have you read it? Not slagging on you it’s a good and useful document even for the experienced. 

Yes, I have both perused it and used it for rigging adjustments.

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It's a fun learning curve, still on it.  I dunno, maybe (duh) the '31 is less "jumpy", or my boat is just nicely balanced, but I find it a fine boat to single-hand.

How well-balanced is the boat, particularly beating and reaching?  Much lee or weather helm?  Or just squirrelly?  Did you take some of the advice bhyde offered (tiller extension, bungies...)?

1 hour ago, We are Rimas! said:

I have only run aground once where we came to an abrupt halt- not fun. 

And we have seen 13.0 knots out of it.

I suggest from experience working on reducing the former before attempting to further optimize the latter.  Don't do both at once. ;)

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Single handing the F242 is easy once there's an autopilot.  Otherwise, the tacking evolution becomes difficult.  A bungie does help but you still have to push the tiller, go forward to release the jib (usually you have to go back now to adjust the tiller again), then forward again to bring the jib in on the other side assuming the boat actually managed to go past the eye, sometimes go back to the mainsheet to release it if you are stalled....you get the idea.  It's not a big cockpit, but it is much easier with crew or autohelm.   If you aren't in any hurry, a 270 often is easier to accomplish--can even sail with just mainsail that way.  

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3 minutes ago, bacq2bacq said:

It's a fun learning curve, still on it.  I dunno, maybe (duh) the '31 is less "jumpy", or my boat is just nicely balanced, but I find it a fine boat to single-hand.

How well-balanced is the boat, particularly beating and reaching?  Much lee or weather helm?  Or just squirrelly?  Did you take some of the advice bhyde offered (tiller extension, bungies...)?

The boat is balanced. The tiller and jib winches and halyard controls are too far away to jump back and forth between The sprint ahs a rather long cockpit and teh tiller is aft of the traveler. Plus its always  blowing 20 knots out here. I do have the materials for the bunjie set up, I just havent installed it yet.

I suggest from experience working on reducing the former before attempting to further optimize the latter.  Don't do both at once. ;)

Agreed. I thought knew the water area well. But upon consulting a different chart publishers, the shoal was shallower than i previously observed

 

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18 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

Single handing the F242 is easy once there's an autopilot.  Otherwise, the tacking evolution becomes difficult.  A bungie does help but you still have to push the tiller, go forward to release the jib (usually you have to go back now to adjust the tiller again), then forward again to bring the jib in on the other side assuming the boat actually managed to go past the eye, sometimes go back to the mainsheet to release it if you are stalled....you get the idea.  It's not a big cockpit, but it is much easier with crew or autohelm.   If you aren't in any hurry, a 270 often is easier to accomplish--can even sail with just mainsail that way. 

The autopilot is an option, but i am concerned about power consumption with the dinky battery and dinky battery compartment. It seems like  I am opening a can of worms by having to relocate and add a larger battery, a battery charger, electrical supply while tied up, and additional wiring to accommodate the autopilot. I'm thinking training a crew member might be cheaper and likely as reliable.

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3 minutes ago, bacq2bacq said:

Crew can have other advantages as wellrBVaI1lJ55SAdQxyAAHQQNnm2Mc154.jpg

or, perhaps if one is so inclined... <deleted image>

Not sure my wife would approve.

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19 minutes ago, We are Rimas! said:

The autopilot is an option, but i am concerned about power consumption with the dinky battery and dinky battery compartment. It seems like  I am opening a can of worms by having to relocate and add a larger battery, a battery charger, electrical supply while tied up, and additional wiring to accommodate the autopilot. I'm thinking training a crew member might be cheaper and likely as reliable.

Actually, training crew is much more reliable.  When I added an autohelm, I added the power supply right under it in that little cubby.  A Li-ion battery will give you more amp-hrs with less weight and takes less space.   

I hear you about blowing 20...today the delta "breeze" is in the 30+ range.  Hope you berthed securely.  Stop bye Benicia if you get up this far or give me a holler if you need help with anything.

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I have a sprint and also sail where it is rather breezy, often solo.  A tiller extension is a definate need, i use a 100” f18 stick.  When sailing solo with the jib, i cross sheet from the cabintop winches to the cockpit winches, giving me a sheet close by i can reach while out on the tramp.  There are a couple f22’s and atleast 1 sprint with a self tacking jib which ill probably do eventually.

The roller boom for reefing the main has been great so far for me, but ive only used it up to about 25mph.

My concern with the tiller mod is that its nice having your weight behind the traveler when flying the chute in breeze.  

-Jeff

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What about a tiller clutch?  Did we mention that before or is that essential the bungee idea? 

I am debating about getting one for my Mk1 but since it hasn't touched the water yet.... close very close.... I am waiting to see.  

  

1A_tiller clutch-750x750.jpg

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1 hour ago, Defy said:

What about a tiller clutch?  Did we mention that before or is that essential the bungee idea? 

I am debating about getting one for my Mk1 but since it hasn't touched the water yet.... close very close.... I am waiting to see.  

  

Well, $80 for the clutch, 5 for a bungie...both will do the job on a light boat with a lightly loaded helm.  I'd try a bungie before deciding I need something else.  

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16 hours ago, DLG said:

There are a couple f22’s and atleast 1 sprint with a self tacking jib which ill probably do eventually.

-Jeff

I would absolutely love to see how people have pulled off self tacking jibs on a 242. or F22.  It seems like such a good idea, until you run into the daggerboard....

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On 5/13/2019 at 3:40 PM, MultiThom said:

Actually, training crew is much more reliable.  When I added an autohelm, I added the power supply right under it in that little cubby.  A Li-ion battery will give you more amp-hrs with less weight and takes less space.   

I hear you about blowing 20...today the delta "breeze" is in the 30+ range.  Hope you berthed securely.  Stop bye Benicia if you get up this far or give me a holler if you need help with anything. 

Thank you, Tom. I have not made it out that far yet. Almost to the Antioch bridge last weekend.

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35 minutes ago, We are Rimas! said:

Thank you, Tom. I have not made it out that far yet. Almost to the Antioch bridge last weekend.

Totally unfair, I know, but we can meet in Antioch (I get to go Downwind to meet, you gotta slog to weather).  But to go home...:)  Make a day of it....then again, y'know, our boats do go 55 mph on trailers.  We could meet in Discovery Bay if there's a launch ramp or Rio Vista.  Windy though.  We could watch the DDR and kibbitz.  Or I can just drive to where you store your boat and offer unwanted advice.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I virtually always singlehand my 750 - in pretty heavy winds also (Sakkonet Strait RI)......and I'm an old guy (65) who has only sailed for a decade.

I use the Cansail simple tiller lock thing ($45 or so...??) - and my boat (2008 Sprint 750) had a aluminum tiller extension. 

That's a simple way to do it IMHO....

I am not a racer and don't have everything tuned, but 15 knots is easily possible in a good breeze here...as far as boat speed with 1 or 2 up. I'm sure those who really tried could do better but we have more chop than many places so speed is cut down by the friction. Once in a while I get in the lee of the land and still have wind and experience "lake" sailing...the boat skids right over the water.

My baby is still for sale - I think it's about the only one of it's age and price (2008, 33K w.brand new motor and trailer) on the east coast. I've seen a few other sell so hopefully mine is next in line....I have loved this thing (had it 6 seasons). 

Probably not gonna put it in the water this year....so it's ready to PU for any of you who are man enough to sail it (ha ha).....

I've placed ads here twice...and, sadly (for SA), only received 2 Nigerians who wanted to buy it through this ad....no actual sailors! Weird since I'd think this would be a place such sailors would hang out. Any suggestions welcome for selling it...

I'll throw in the use of my mooring off Portsmouth RI for a few months...you can't beat that deal. 

We winter in Sarasota so I hope to either join the Squadron or get something small down there for the bay......

C'mon....I know one of you desires this. You should have it (can you tell I was in marketing?). 

(ad in classifieds here....or at YW). 

 

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