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Is it just me, or is every Newick ever built as ugly as sin?


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https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2002/newick-echo-ii-3229189/
2002 Newick ECHO II, Bristol, RI

Boat Name: Mockingbird

Designer: Dick Newick
Builder: Lombardi Yachts, North, VA (2002)

Dimensions

LOA: 37' 10” plus telescoping bowsprit
LWL: 36’ 6”
Beam: 30'
Max Draft: 7' 9" (centerboard board fully down)
Min Draft: 1' 9"
Displacement: 7,000 lbs

Construction

• CorCel foam core with E-glass / WEST System Epoxy Skins and ample carbon fiber reinforcement laid parallel to main load paths.
• Outboard sides of ama hulls reinforced with longitudinal uni-glass.

Engine Brand: Yanmar
Total Power: 15 HP

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6731891_20180601130637162_1_XLARGE.jpg.b325f9d586f9d8e64da64b1f2aaf580d.jpg

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On 12/6/2018 at 4:30 AM, Bruno said:

Wingdeck Vals have some issues, one I have is the lack of curvature to the front edge, another is under deck clearances I do think think they raise the CG and add windage vs beams and nets. But they also increase racking strength and volume, there are still stress concentrations at the corners. As an early solution it takes a very spartan ocean racer and turns it into a cramped coastal  racer/cruiser. Weight does increase, draft also, tradeoffs.

this is not correct, i have sailed on many wing deck newicks and in some pretty extreme conditions, also had many discussions on this subject with other newick sailors and corresponded with dick on the subject of the full wing deck.  There were several conclusions : the older wing decks were lower and did take the odd wave hit but more importantly dick designed the wing very carefully to mimic an assymetric foil shape hence as you travel across the waves the flatter topside deck produces a downward pressure which tends to push the whole boat down onto the surface of the sea, the stronger the breeze or higher the boat speed the more this downward pressure works. Also an added bonus is the air being forced under the leeward wing deck at speed produces an effect similar to a hovercraft riding on a cushion of air enhanced by the assistance of dicks low lift dagger foils. The solid wing deck does add weight but more than makes up for that with structural stiffness, bunk room down below and as a last resort bouyancy in event of capsize. I have spent many hours sitting out on the windward float in 40+ knots of wind watching how dicks works of art travel thru the boundary layer of sea and air, a more beautiful thing is difficult to imagine.

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Anyone have any idea of what Portsmouth Handicap to assign an Argonauta 27?

Smaller Tremolino is 83.7.

Mug Race in Florida is May 4. 40 mile river race. We have one entered and have to assign a number. Any ideas?

Dave Ellis, one of the RC team

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this is my old val 2 sailing off Whangamata NZ, Dick is actually sitting below with my friends Max and Chris, hiding from a rain squall that has just passed thru.  It was such a pleasure to finally meet Dick and Pat and be able to take Dick for a sail after many years of corresponding regarding the design and building of my Val 2 "aihe" which translates to Dolphin in maori.  Dick had high hopes for the Val 2 design but unfortunately it has slipped under the radar and only two, maybe three were ever built. If anyone did decide to build a Val 2  Pat Newick can hopefully find the revision that Dick drew incorporating all the lessons we learn't from sailing aihe. 

FB_IMG_1555282187842.jpg

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Nice looking boat, I'll take your word for the negative lift as I have yet to experience it or the rammed air effect. The low straight leading edge with the low bow seems to scoop water into the cockpit as it cuts through the waves but perhaps it's just my boat. I agree with you about the extra space (say vs an F31) inside and the stiffness. It is a 1984 conversion so I think that's early. The stated racing weight on the drawing of 1 t seems low but the build process,  vacuum bagged airex/glass/think polyester maybe iso, seems beefy and relatively heavy. Guessing more like 1.5t. Which is still less than most of the F31s, I hear, perhaps due to the infusion.

I like the angled float daggers, thought about those, do they help keep the leeward float up? This boat has been upmoded (in fits and starts) so it is kind of a V1.5. The main hull had the rockerin the ends flattened and the stem made pretty vertical, supposedly under Mr Newick's supervision but I doubt  he had much to do with it. We did something similar with the float bows but left the stern rockers alone. I have been struggling to get the helm balanced as I'd like but really just haven't put in the time.

 

 

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i am not sure if your boat you are describing is a wing deck Val 1 ?  if so yes the leading edge is quite low and will scoop a lot of water over and into the cockpit. most of the vals are heavier than Dick intended hence they sit lower and are wet. the best thing for that is a fixed dodger if you can make it work around the winch and clutch layout. the newick design dagger foil is a low lift/ low drag foil and the plans should be available from Pat Newick as Dick had them drawn up and able to be purchased seperately the same as his wing mast plans.  Dick said his foils were equal to the power of one reef in main, which would be about right, of course the faster you go the more lift they generate. at 18-20 knots the leeward float is barely pushed into the water but the great benefit is how stable the boat is in a seaway which in turn creates a more stable wind flow over the sails. we also liked to put them down in sloppy drifter conditions when racing for same reason which you cant do with high lift foils as they just create drag. the Newick foils dont really start producing lift until 12-14 knots depending on which yacht used on.  some of Dicks boats he did a redraw and filled in the bows as you describe, the 36 ft Tricia was updated like that. i sailed on a particularly light, fast version built by Robert Russel called "woundup"  here in NZ a very impressive boat, a much superior performer to her sister "mokihi" one of the original tricias which was an impressive boat in her own right.

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Thanks, I like your dodger, trying to fit one. I agree about weight, first have to jettison all the tools and spares, just as soon as I stop working on it. But first need to refit a galley of some spartan sort. Bows stay nice and dry now, but I still like the idea of the angled float foils, second order effects as you say. Just needs a bit more tuning.

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Speaking of foils, I think that the dagger weighs about 150 lbs of solid oak, thinking about cutting out the head as I've seen many do, supposedly all the load is at the top and bottom though when sailing or motoring with it half down there would be a transition? Also not keen on the idea of the board being much stronger than the case, maybe a sacrificial foam tip? these would lose perhaps 50 lb.

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On 4/22/2019 at 10:10 AM, RURU said:

this is my old val 2 sailing off Whangamata NZ, Dick is actually sitting below with my friends Max and Chris, hiding from a rain squall that has just passed thru.  It was such a pleasure to finally meet Dick and Pat and be able to take Dick for a sail after many years of corresponding regarding the design and building of my Val 2 "aihe" which translates to Dolphin in maori.  Dick had high hopes for the Val 2 design but unfortunately it has slipped under the radar and only two, maybe three were ever built. If anyone did decide to build a Val 2  Pat Newick can hopefully find the revision that Dick drew incorporating all the lessons we learn't from sailing aihe. 

FB_IMG_1555282187842.jpg

https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sailing-trimaran/dick-newick-val-2/213754

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yes i would very much like to buy my old boat back but circumstances not right for me at present. Paul purchased her from me and sailed solo across Tasman to her new home in Aussie .  Bruno i think we all were guilty of overbuilding especially the centreboards ! although Dick was a fan of strong cboard and crushbox in the case, not how i'd do it 2nd time around. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/21/2019 at 8:10 PM, RURU said:

this is my old val 2 sailing off Whangamata NZ, Dick is actually sitting below with my friends Max and Chris, hiding from a rain squall that has just passed thru.  It was such a pleasure to finally meet Dick and Pat and be able to take Dick for a sail after many years of corresponding regarding the design and building of my Val 2 "aihe" which translates to Dolphin in maori.  Dick had high hopes for the Val 2 design but unfortunately it has slipped under the radar and only two, maybe three were ever built. If anyone did decide to build a Val 2  Pat Newick can hopefully find the revision that Dick drew incorporating all the lessons we learn't from sailing aihe. 

FB_IMG_1555282187842.jpg

Beautiful boat!

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Yes, a White Wings. I took the mizzen off to see how the boat balanced and to see if there was any performance difference. Never put it back on. I also changed out the Ljungstrom sail. There was no way to keep the sail from opening up while gybing. When it’s really windy and you are going very fast downwind and all of the sudden you have twice as much sail area… Not good. The flare in the bow of the main hull saved us from an otherwise certain pitchpole. 

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I had forgotten about White Wings.  Multihuler might have had to fight for it.  Fascinating that the absent mizzen is a non-issue, would love to know more details about the difference pros and cons.  Getting rid of the Ljungstrom rig was the right thing to do.

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1 hour ago, Russell Brown said:

Is it just me, or is the title of this thread really insulting?

it is, but it's more insulting to the supposed intelligence of the original poster than anything to do with Dick or his works-of-art

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15 hours ago, Veeger said:

I had forgotten about White Wings.  Multihuler might have had to fight for it.  Fascinating that the absent mizzen is a non-issue, would love to know more details about the difference pros and cons.  Getting rid of the Ljungstrom rig was the right thing to do.

The mizzen was quite small and too close to the main. It wasn’t possible to get any flow over it, upwind anyway. Off the wind it must have added something, but it was tiny. It wasn’t so bad with the original sail but when the big square top went on the problem with flow became even worse. The mizzen mast was handy to hang a shade cloth from while at anchor. …hardly a saving grace. There wasn’t any change in balance without it. 

 

The boat needs a jib. Tacking in windy conditions is a challenge as momentum is lost mid tack in the waves. There is no jib to back to bring the bow over. I’ve played with a little heavy jib of a Wavelength 24 and that works well. The sail has a wire luff but it’s difficult to get any tension on it with the freestanding mast. Sets okay in the lighter winds and adds quite a bit of power to the rig. 

 

My boat is “Drifter” not the original White Wings. Built about the same time though. 

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Dick Newick, cared about what he did.  It showed, if you don't feel moved, that is only a reflection of you own indifference to his sense of purpose.  Designing boats is very hard, he succeeded with a variety of watercraft that are almost timelessly playful, that is the point of his work.  How can we have too much beauty?

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21 hours ago, BadRon said:

The mizzen was quite small and too close to the main. It wasn’t possible to get any flow over it, upwind anyway. Off the wind it must have added something, but it was tiny. It wasn’t so bad with the original sail but when the big square top went on the problem with flow became even worse. The mizzen mast was handy to hang a shade cloth from while at anchor. …hardly a saving grace. There wasn’t any change in balance without it. 

 

The boat needs a jib. Tacking in windy conditions is a challenge as momentum is lost mid tack in the waves. There is no jib to back to bring the bow over. I’ve played with a little heavy jib of a Wavelength 24 and that works well. The sail has a wire luff but it’s difficult to get any tension on it with the freestanding mast. Sets okay in the lighter winds and adds quite a bit of power to the rig. 

 

My boat is “Drifter” not the original White Wings. Built about the same time though. 

Try a camber spar  jib? It's also self tacking.

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Camber Spar was a great thing for multihulls, especially those with rotating wing spars. There were two Gold Coast sistership 53's that did the daycharter trip each day from St Thomas to Honeymoon Beach St John each day stopping for snorkling and lunch nosed up to the beach about 50 yards from each other. I was windsurfing past and waved to a friend of mine what was skipper of one of the big hard working cats. His herd was taking the snorkel tour and he and the hostess were putting out lunch so he invited me to tie off to a transom and come have a sandwich and a beer. The other 53 had a conventional roller furling working jib that was maybe a 110% and sheeted to the cabin top and my friends boat had a Bierig CamberSpar jib. Odd looking things with that half wishbone tucked into what was essentially a wide tapered batten pocket in which the boom could rotated to force camber into the sail. The boom has an odd little tiller at the clew that self adjusts to either tack and the camber increases the further you sheet it out. The angle of the boom downward from its sort of gooseneck fitting on the luff wire makes it self vanging but more like an upside down GNav which is popular in small performance dinghies and Moths.

     I asked the skip about the relative merits of the jibs and he said as a WIndsurfer I should not even have to ask about why the Camber Spar had superior performance even though limited to about 90% of the available foretriangle. He thought that not having to barber haul (who does that on a cattlemaran anyway?) made up for the lack of roller furling but they had worked out a very clever lazy jack/Stack Pack sort of thing that the Camber Spar simply fell into when not sailing. It took a deck hand about 15 seconds to tuck the sail down into the Sunbrella UV cover at the foot and it all stayed topped up above the heads of guest clambering about the trampoline.

     After lunch I sailed over to the other boat and compared notes with the other skipper and he was very partial to his rig so I issued an impromptu challenge for the two boats to 'put up or shut up' when they left for St Thomas at the end of the day. Both skippers loved the idea race was on. I returned to the Bierig equipped boat and secured my windsurfer on the swim platform on the transom and when all the tourists were loaded and the bow ladders were raised we took a short beat up the lee of the North Shore of St John past Caneel Bay to see how they both short tacked in confined waters. The other boat out footed us a bit due to the larger sail but we pointed higher and took less time in the tacks with no jib release and hauling in on the new tack. Those GC boats working jibs almost tack themselves and it you release the old sheet using the clutch and yank in the lazy sheet immediately as the head goes to wind you hardly need to winch in.

    Once past the current channels between the keys and out into clear wind and open water the boats were a pretty even match. A head nod between the skippers and both boats headed down to a VMG reach back towards St Thomas. That is where it got really interesting. The greater sail area in the other boats jib made more of a speed gain on us but not before they got the barber haulers in place and adjusted. One the eased jib stopped flopping around and drawing consistently there was maybe a half knot advantage and they started to pull away. I always hate to be on the slower boat and urged the skipper to 'heat it up' as we were sailing a deeper course but not still not getting as good a WMG to leeward. Skip gave me the wheel and said 'Do your best..."

     I couldn't find a groove that improved things for us even though I noted that the Camberspar was well behaved and did indeed self vang nicely. The Skip told me to head DDW and he jibed the main and we sailed 'wing and wing' for a while which is anathema for a die hard multihull guy like myself. Doug the skipper just laughed at my discomfort but pointed out that we were slowing gaining back what we had lost to the other boat fast reaching out toward Jost. When they reached the layline for East End St Thomas and jibe back over towards us we crossed their bows easily as our coursed converged. I wanted to jib over to cover but Doug told me to sail on well past the layline so I could heat it up if I really wanted to. I did as told and expected him to jib the CamberSpare but he told me to head up and he just kept easing the Jib on the same side until it was forereaching with the clew well ahead of the tack and drawing like a mule even though the airflow across it was leech to luff! The sail didn't care and it looked like the old Windsurfer Freestyle move with the boom acting more like a foresprit. The jib so far forward left a big clean slot for the mainsail and no blanketing and we just rocketed up under the lee of the other cat in no time and had maybe a couple knots boatspeed advantage. Lots of jeering between the boats and when we headed back down to their course on a proper reaching layline we kept our speed advantage and maybe gained even a bit more. 

     I was convinced so I thanked Doug and his crew, finished my Ma'i Tai and slid my board back in the water and sailed back home to St John. I could help but sail past the other cat with my full batten fat head Windsurfer sail flipped around the wrong way just to rub it in on the vanquished.

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On 11/6/2018 at 12:32 PM, Wess said:

Jesus!  That is nearly the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

I found at least one Newick that I thought was pretty special, so I wanted to provide another Newick thread playground that didn't have such an antagonistic title.

If y'all want to keep me squirming, fine, I'll understand, but FWIW:

 

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3 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

That'd be an interesting race between the two...

I wish it was... In light winds, the Twiggy sails as fast as Panache but as soon as breeze is coming, we can see Panache's sails getting smaller and smaller. Not only pretty , especially when sailing, but quite fast.  Both tris have same width but Panache is 38'. Talking about weight, 2 tons (empty hull + mast). Currently under refit in Brittany.

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50 minutes ago, triple jim said:

I wish it was... In light winds, the Twiggy sails as fast as Panache but as soon as breeze is coming, we can see Panache's sails getting smaller and smaller. Not only pretty , especially when sailing, but quite fast.  Both tris have same width but Panache is 38'. Talking about weight, 2 tons (empty hull + mast). Currently under refit in Brittany.

Twiggy's are beautiful in light wind.... I've also had some exhilarating sailing in fresher conditions on one. I've never sailed a Newick. Different types of art.  

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On 4/23/2019 at 3:33 PM, RURU said:

yes i would very much like to buy my old boat back but circumstances not right for me at present. Paul purchased her from me and sailed solo across Tasman to her new home in Aussie .  Bruno i think we all were guilty of overbuilding especially the centreboards ! although Dick was a fan of strong cboard and crushbox in the case, not how i'd do it 2nd time around. 

Just rereading this I think I see that your boat had both a dagger, well aft of the mast, and two angled ama daggers? How did that work out? Could you do away with the center dagger?

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6 hours ago, Fat Point Jack said:

Is that the Panache originally from Door County Wisconsin?  Roger______?

I should check with my friend Eric (owner of Panache) but I don't think so... By the way, Eric told me about a sistership, called Greenwich Propane at the time...

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6 hours ago, Fat Point Jack said:

Is that the Panache originally from Door County Wisconsin?  Roger______?

I can only imagine that you are thinking of "Humdinger", a Walter Greene designed tri that did a good impression of a Newick design.

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2 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Downton Flyer was built on the Isle of Man to the PANACHE design. Is she still around? 

Yes, she is. My friend Eric owns her since18 years or so.

A couple of years ago, Panache was seriously damaged in a collision with a Catana, shortly after having been re-launched following a 5 years refit !

I helped Eric fix the damages (a 1,5 m breach in the wing and float) and we sailed together (Panache + my Twiggy) between Formentera and Cadix. At some point, we continued each on our own way.

Caught in a epic storm in Biscaye, with strong winds and rogue waves, the tri filled with water and was cracking in loud noises. Eric was saved by an helicopter and Panache went adrift  full with 3 cubic meters of water. She was found back after 10 days or so,  towed at 2 knots, totally empty (hence the water) but structurally sound, apart from damages around the tiller and locally. A new refit has begun. Panache is built in Airex and Iso polyester resin, a quite stiff platform, easy to repair.

Panache is one of the most beautiful tris I was given to see under sails.

 

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Thanks Triple Jim.

     I met Dickey Gomes and his partner in Plymouth in 1986 just before starting the Carlsberg TwoStar Race. He really took me under his wing while there and showed me a trophy in the downstairs bar at the Royal Western Yacht Club downstairs bar that had Downton Flyer inscribed on the back (it was actually a painting) as the winner of the Round Great Britain race from a couple of years earlier on a elapsed time against waterline length formula. It was considered the 'best performance' corrected for LOA amongst all the entries. He was very encouraging to us on our TwoStar race that was to start the next morning and was saying that he was going to propose a similar trophy at the RWYC for the TwoStar and thought that our boat would have a very good chance at winning on such a basis. 

    I'm not sure if he slipped my date a roophy or perhaps me one that night of celebrating and drinking but I ended up in the roonm of the Finnish news correspondent covering the event and barely made it back to my boat in time for the race, which my skipper was not too thrilled about... I to this day blame that indiscretion it on the 'Mickey from Dickey'!

    Dickey was thrilled with our eventual finish in the race and tried to convince me that if I bought Downton Flyer (which was then available through some weird chain of events) that he would help me prep it for the next OSTAR and I could be the next Jack Petith in a fast Newick tri.

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On 12/11/2018 at 4:04 PM, Rasputin22 said:

There was a Trice design in St Martin that used to be a real threat in any round the Islands race if the Trades were booming. It daysailed all year long making good money and then they would scrub the bottom good and put up the racing sails and kick ass in a breeze. Lot of local knowledge on that boat helped. Only way to beat them sometimes was to keep the skipper drinking rum the night before. He would haul us St John multihull racers around the Island on the promise of taking us to a good local restaurant but only after stopping at a dozen or so beach rum shops first. After the first three hours of the Tour de Rhum we would remind him that we needed a good meal and his standard reply was to buy another round of the evil liquor and hoist his glass with the toast "Rum is Food". 

    This would go on the rest of the night and into the wee hours and we would all row back to our boats singing "Rum if Food" in a drunken unison. Next morning we were setting the main on the hook and just starting to pull up to the anchor and could see right down below on the little Newick wondering if Pat had gone home instead of sleeping on the boat as he had planned. We gave a yell and he finally came to the companionway squinting at the harsh sun and looking as if he had been run over by the rum truck. We had gone ashore and had a nice breakfast at Chesterfields with lots of good Island coffee to try and negate the effects of the hangovers but Pat was in no shape to be out on the race course. He stammered and coughed a couple times and and finally croaked out "Rum is NOT Food!" crawled back into the shadows of his boat. 

TRYST

Image result

What does the bottom look like on her?... centerboard, dagger, 2x12” keel as Russell mentioned re the Saint Croix boat? Tryst has competed well in light airs if I recall, and you say she’s good in heavy winds too. Curious how such an older design works so very well.

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18 minutes ago, Geese said:

What does the bottom look like on her?... centerboard, dagger, 2x12” keel as Russell mentioned re the Saint Croix boat? Tryst has competed well in light airs if I recall, and you say she’s good in heavy winds too. Curious how such an older design works so very well.

Ganja Rastas that can find the wind holes and williwaws coming down off the steep bluffs using their majic Spliffs!

 

Actually, that boat is over 50 years old and is going head to head with the latest bleeding edge foiling trimarans like the heavily modified MOD 70 like MASERATI and ARGO and the custom dream tri FINN not to mention the fellow St Croix built catamaran FUJIN in St Martin as we speak.

https://www.smyc.com/post/a-caribbean-treasure-the-trimaran-tryst-to-celebrate-50th-birthday-at-2019-caribbean-multihull-c

https://www.smyc.com/post/epic-fleet-of-catamarans-and-trimarans-assembling-for-2nd-edition-of-caribbean-multihull-challenge

 

I think that this was the warm up racee.

https://www.smyc.com/post/epic-fleet-of-catamarans-and-trimarans-assembling-for-2nd-edition-of-caribbean-multihull-challenge

Image may contain: ocean, sky, boat, outdoor and water, possible text that says 'At 50 years young and still one of the coolest multihulls in the Caribbean, the Dick Newick-designed trimaran Tryst hauls the mail under spinnaker.'

 

I've got some stories to share about the boat and her former skipper Pat Turner and his band of scalawags. Their motto on race weekends was,

RUM IS FOOD!

But then on Monday mornings they would be crying...

 

RUM IS NOT FOOD!!!

 

 

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