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The rig came down because of an experimental systems change that caused the lower panels to buckle, no luck involved there and not really a funny story. We dropped a few rigs before this one in previo

I have a little experience sailing the course. And even if I didn't, what's wrong with a little betting on the horse race!?

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:37 AM, dsackman said:

Talk about the rocket boats vying for line honors is great, but a number of participants will sail smaller vessels and do it single-handed, more for the adventure and competing against themselves.

My strategy in my TriRaid and single-handed is to keep moving as much as possible. At the time of the race there will be about 17.5 hours between sunrise and sunset with long periods of twilight before and after. Catnapping with the autopilot steering will allow for "some" rest. 

However, all this talk about logs and deadheads scares me. The boat is not frail, but not as robust as a larger vessel, but capable of over 10 knots. I am looking at the odds of hitting a log or deadhead. How many hits were recorded so far in the history of the race? 

I recalled one boat had its dagger board ripped off a few years back and another crew recorded over 30 sightings if memory serves me right.

Any local knowledge is appreciated.

Team ACE

FWIW, under 10 knots is ok, if you are paying attention, over 10 knots gets into pucker factor and can be very tiring, especially at night.  We hit a deadhead that had stuck one end in mud, and the free end was 8’ under the water at high-ish tide- but staying in deeper water will help that one.  Lumpy water and vertical deadheads during the day is doable, as long as you can make a template in your head of what you’re looking to avoid- my key is looking for how fast a piece of crap moves in reaction to the wave state- if it wiggles, it’s probably light, if it moves slower that you’d expect, it’s probably heavier or longer.  After any storm with runoff things can be awe inspiringly weird - one year we sailed from Sydney to Seattle after a big storm, and there were pieces of crap every 10- 15’ or so - whole trees with root systems still intact floating in the water- one of us was at the bow at all times doing the Shackleton ‘steer this way pointing thing’.  When we’re feeling especially paranoid, we try to keep track of tugs towing logs- they always lose a few.  A few years back, for some reason there were a lot of 2 by 4s with nails sticking out floating around.  It’s not as bad as it sounds, but it’s like driving at night, or dusk or dawn in the country in deer rutting season- don’t do it, or slow down.

One thing I did when I was a kid (all the stories of killer deadheads floating around with my name on them B)) was weigh one end of a 6’ 4 by 4 so it floated vertically, and played around with, how it moved as it bobbed up and down, just to get used to the motion, so I might ‘see’ it, even out of the corner of my eye.  Except for the completely submerged vertical dead head ^^^^, they all give themselves away in some way or another, little concentric out of place ripples, how they slide in and out of the waves, that sort of thing  Like Russell, I HATE sailing at night.  

You can slow down.  It seems easier to spot the things in a smaller boat.  Keeping your head out of the boat is the main thing- if something gets strange on the boat slow way down or stop and deal with it, if you can.  When we were delivering Amati from Olympia to Seattle when she was brand new, we (5 of us!) were fiddling around with the main sheet system and ran over a 6’ branch (with leaves on it even!) just floating around on the surface.  And there was maybe a hundred years of sailing experience aboard......we were south of an island in a southern moving tide, so we should have expected it.  (See ‘gunk zone’ below :))

Current and wind play a major factor determining where the deadheads go, so start paying attention to what my wife and I call ‘gunk zones’ where floatsam and jetsam congregate (usually loooks like grass or kelp or wood or garbage), whether in a line (sometimes loooong) or in a big circle, but that will help with progress too. Channel 16 can be a help, sometimes....always amusing hearing a drunk talking to a buddy about partying, and then ‘what the fuck did I just hit?’

Hope this helps a little, it’s kind of like growing up in snake country- you learn to differentiate between rocks and sticks and snakes.  And then there’s kelp wrapping itself around foils....:lol:, but if you’re looking for deadheads, there’s a chance you’ll see kelp.....

 

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Oh- unless you’re using whirlpools to slingshot yourself forward, or upwellings, until you get used to them, probably a good idea to be wary of them, especially in channels- sometimes (like rarely) they can throw stuff at you- but they are fun to play with.......

charts can be helpful with kelp

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4 hours ago, Amati said:

Current and wind play a major factor determining where the deadheads go, so start paying attention to what my wife and I call ‘gunk zones’ where floatsam and jetsam congregate (usually loooks like grass or kelp or wood or garbage), whether in a line (sometimes loooong) or in a big circle, but that will help with progress too. Channel 16 can be a help, sometimes....always amusing hearing a drunk talking to a buddy about partying, and then ‘what the fuck did I just hit?’

The joy of tide lines. We call them shit lines, because there is so much crap floating along on the surface in a nice row. It's surprising how you can go from one side of a tide line to the other and find yourself suddenly going 2 knots slower on the GPS. Cross back over the line and you're fine again. Some of those surface currents are amazingly close to each other, considering there can be a 4 knot delta between them.

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20 hours ago, multihuler said:

Her beams were rebuilt, sockets rebuilt, inside and outside sanded 7 times, new spectra halyards, new spectra shrouds, new diamond wires, rebuilt all the winches, new epoxy paint inside and out, rebuilt carbon mast, rebuilt centerboard trunks, rebuilt the cockpits, replace bad core,, nomex berths, carbon reinforced chainplates, rebuilt the trailer, on and off  three years working on her,  sold her at a loss of $25k. Would I have done it again? Yes, I saved her, !@#$%& the internet and unappreciated efforts, but I know.

9 people raced her to Alaska, no one got hurt, and she finished with bulging eyeballs from the crew 

image1 (1).PNG

As I said when I turned over the keys to you, Steven, "take good care of her, 'cause I know in my heart, she'll take care of you."  Thanks for dressing her up more so she could live well for a few more years!

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

The joy of tide lines. We call them shit lines, because there is so much crap floating along on the surface in a nice row. It's surprising how you can go from one side of a tide line to the other and find yourself suddenly going 2 knots slower on the GPS. Cross back over the line and you're fine again. Some of those surface currents are amazingly close to each other, considering there can be a 4 knot delta between them.

Tidal shear?  

It reminds me of sailing with my dad south of Olympia near Boston Harbor, DDW with the spinnaker up, and there was a guy headed 180 degrees towards us going DDW with his Spinnaker up.  We crossed about a hundred yards port to port, and kept on our merry points of sail for 4-500 yards before the breezes died completely.

 

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

The joy of tide lines. We call them shit lines, because there is so much crap floating along on the surface in a nice row. It's surprising how you can go from one side of a tide line to the other and find yourself suddenly going 2 knots slower on the GPS. Cross back over the line and you're fine again. Some of those surface currents are amazingly close to each other, considering there can be a 4 knot delta between them.

Tidal shear?  

It reminds me of sailing with my dad south of Olympia near Boston Harbor, DDW with the spinnaker up, and there was a guy headed 180 degrees towards us going DDW with his Spinnaker up.  We crossed about a hundred yards port to port, and kept on our merry points of sail for 4-500 yards before the breezes died completely.

Hey!  Look what I found!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960148117302884

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5 hours ago, Amati said:

Tidal shear?  

Yes, but probably more correctly - current shear.

Even get it in English Bay.  One Thursday Evening race drifter we were were about 1 boat length to leeward of a J-35 in my 27 footer and there was a tide line we managed to cross into and we immediately shot by the J going at least 2 kts over the bottom while the J was stationary.  Funny thing was the J was never able to get on the other side of the line because the line kept moving away from them.  We had to fight to stay in the good current because the line kept moving to leeward

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9 hours ago, Ishmael said:

The joy of tide lines. We call them shit lines, because there is so much crap floating along on the surface in a nice row. It's surprising how you can go from one side of a tide line to the other and find yourself suddenly going 2 knots slower on the GPS. Cross back over the line and you're fine again. Some of those surface currents are amazingly close to each other, considering there can be a 4 knot delta between them.

Biggest differential I have experienced was ~10 knots, at Bec du Nez, Sark, Channel Islands. Keep tight into Banquette Bay going close up to the point and you have 2-3 knots with you. Stick your bow out on the other side of the tide line, in a big spring ebb, you can have 7-8 knots against you. No deadheads though!

i am sure there must be lots of places along the R2AK course like that?

 

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15 hours ago, Amati said:

FWIW, under 10 knots is ok, if you are paying attention, over 10 knots gets into pucker factor and can be very tiring, especially at night.  We hit a deadhead that had stuck one end in mud, and the free end was 8’ under the water at high-ish tide- but staying in deeper water will help that one.  Lumpy water and vertical deadheads during the day is doable, as long as you can make a template in your head of what you’re looking to avoid- my key is looking for how fast a piece of crap moves in reaction to the wave state- if it wiggles, it’s probably light, if it moves slower that you’d expect, it’s probably heavier or longer.  After any storm with runoff things can be awe inspiringly weird - one year we sailed from Sydney to Seattle after a big storm, and there were pieces of crap every 10- 15’ or so - whole trees with root systems still intact floating in the water- one of us was at the bow at all times doing the Shackleton ‘steer this way pointing thing’.  When we’re feeling especially paranoid, we try to keep track of tugs towing logs- they always lose a few.  A few years back, for some reason there were a lot of 2 by 4s with nails sticking out floating around.  It’s not as bad as it sounds, but it’s like driving at night, or dusk or dawn in the country in deer rutting season- don’t do it, or slow down.

One thing I did when I was a kid (all the stories of killer deadheads floating around with my name on them B)) was weigh one end of a 6’ 4 by 4 so it floated vertically, and played around with, how it moved as it bobbed up and down, just to get used to the motion, so I might ‘see’ it, even out of the corner of my eye.  Except for the completely submerged vertical dead head ^^^^, they all give themselves away in some way or another, little concentric out of place ripples, how they slide in and out of the waves, that sort of thing  Like Russell, I HATE sailing at night.  

You can slow down.  It seems easier to spot the things in a smaller boat.  Keeping your head out of the boat is the main thing- if something gets strange on the boat slow way down or stop and deal with it, if you can.  When we were delivering Amati from Olympia to Seattle when she was brand new, we (5 of us!) were fiddling around with the main sheet system and ran over a 6’ branch (with leaves on it even!) just floating around on the surface.  And there was maybe a hundred years of sailing experience aboard......we were south of an island in a southern moving tide, so we should have expected it.  (See ‘gunk zone’ below :))

Current and wind play a major factor determining where the deadheads go, so start paying attention to what my wife and I call ‘gunk zones’ where floatsam and jetsam congregate (usually loooks like grass or kelp or wood or garbage), whether in a line (sometimes loooong) or in a big circle, but that will help with progress too. Channel 16 can be a help, sometimes....always amusing hearing a drunk talking to a buddy about partying, and then ‘what the fuck did I just hit?’

Hope this helps a little, it’s kind of like growing up in snake country- you learn to differentiate between rocks and sticks and snakes.  And then there’s kelp wrapping itself around foils....:lol:, but if you’re looking for deadheads, there’s a chance you’ll see kelp.....

 

Much ado about nothing. You can see the logs and deadheads during the day. At night because of the difference in coefficients of thermal expansion between wood and seawater the logs sink below the surface and go to sleep. Nothing to worry about. 

But seriously, how often are boats sinking in the PNW due to hitting logs or deadheads? We certainly saw a lot of logs in our R2AK run but no deadheads. In a few thousand miles of PNW sailing (not saying that's a lot) I've only seen a deadhead once. It seems to be something that terrifies everyone, but how often do serious incidents occur?

For our R2AK we ran flat out day and night. We would back off a bit when we knew we were crossing an area of flotsam at night but that was it. I figured the race involved substantial risk to the boat. I figured we could lose a daggerboard, rudder, bow, or the rig. Any of those was potentially race ending and could potentially lead to the loss of the boat. These were acceptable risks. Multihulls are really hard to sink and even so we were suited up to go swimming at all times in case we got tossed.

The calculus might be different in a leadmine without watertight bulkheads, or in a boat you're not willing to walk away from.

As it turned out we hit a heavy branch one night at speed. It made a big bump and took a quarter size chunk out of one of the bows. Scary moment, but not as nerve-racking for me as Johnstone Strait with wind against tide.

Good luck to all the teams this year.

Pear Shaped Racing has no excuse short of a major gear failure. But they've had a decent amount of time to work the boat up, so hopefully things are sorted. That said, I won't be surprised if we see the Angry Beaver on top.

Wish I was there, but looking forward to my tracker junkie fix this year.

 

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1 hour ago, RandyM81 said:

Much ado about nothing. You can see the logs and deadheads during the day. At night because of the difference in coefficients of thermal expansion between wood and seawater the logs sink below the surface and go to sleep. Nothing to worry about. 

But seriously, how often are boats sinking in the PNW due to hitting logs or deadheads? We certainly saw a lot of logs in our R2AK run but no deadheads. In a few thousand miles of PNW sailing (not saying that's a lot) I've only seen a deadhead once. It seems to be something that terrifies everyone, but how often do serious incidents occur?

For our R2AK we ran flat out day and night. We would back off a bit when we knew we were crossing an area of flotsam at night but that was it. I figured the race involved substantial risk to the boat. I figured we could lose a daggerboard, rudder, bow, or the rig. Any of those was potentially race ending and could potentially lead to the loss of the boat. These were acceptable risks. Multihulls are really hard to sink and even so we were suited up to go swimming at all times in case we got tossed.

The calculus might be different in a leadmine without watertight bulkheads, or in a boat you're not willing to walk away from.

As it turned out we hit a heavy branch one night at speed. It made a big bump and took a quarter size chunk out of one of the bows. Scary moment, but not as nerve-racking for me as Johnstone Strait with wind against tide.

Good luck to all the teams this year.

Pear Shaped Racing has no excuse short of a major gear failure. But they've had a decent amount of time to work the boat up, so hopefully things are sorted. That said, I won't be surprised if we see the Angry Beaver on top.

Wish I was there, but looking forward to my tracker junkie fix this year.

 

 I won't be surprised if we see the Angry Beaver on top.”

Nothing like an Angry Beaver on top

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Yeah - I think Randy has the right level of fear about these logs...  how many has been stoppet by logs since the start in 2015 - not many.

But the waves against the current - and beating against it - thats the real problem for a fast multi - and wasnt that what stopped Nice Pair? Fast light multis that goes 10+kn against steep waves - that is hell - and can brake any boat. 

But to win the ability to move fast when its light conditions can be more important that the ability to go in the worst condition, bec you will not go that fare during 5-6 hour of hell whatever boat - and its a big chance it will  stop you. 

 

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There probably isn't too much risk of sinking due to hitting a log or deadhead.

The danger isn't so much to the hull as it is to the foils, especially rudders. In that regard, I suspect logs have the greater ability to inflict damage - but are much easier to spot and avoid.

We hit a log years ago during SS in the middle of the night doing maybe 5-6kts.  Scared the hell out of us, or maybe startled is a better word.  Loud booming noise, but no bodies flying like when you hit a rock.  Also the log usually hits around the keel root, so not as much torquing as you would get from a rock strike where the impact is usually at the toe of the keel.  The boat was inspected out of the water later - but no damage.  Just lucky it didn't hit the rudder.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is my understanding most logs in the Strait of Georgia come from the Fraser River, which has maximum runoff typically around April - May and the river is chock full of all sorts of logs and assorted flotsam during that period.  

A few Junes ago, I know a couple of boats that suffered significant rudder damage (i.e. bent rudder stock) within a couple of weeks of each other.  One from hitting a log, the other from hitting a deadhead.

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Quiet before the storm?      

 

Closing in to the start - looked at the forecast -  1-2-3 ms - 16-18 C - all the way next week up to the start...  but 9-10ms entrance Johnstone Straith...  

 

...here we start the season in the same light conditions at Saturday - will miss that big lightwind genoa that we didnt get yet - witch will blow the rating up to rocketship..

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Totally dead here...? 

 

Forecast for 1.leg look like a very fresh start - should be no problem getting out of the harbor - but then a hard beat to Victoria - maybe better angle at the end of the leg. 

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14 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

Agreed, still too far off to predict, but Windy.com says wind will drop from W 16 knots at 0500 to W 8 knots by 0900, though remain gusty (22 knots) all day.

The only issue here is you need to get out of PT and into that 8 knots of wind which seems to be a good 5nm out into the straits...

Good time for all teams to test out their human propulsion systems :lol: 

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22 hours ago, Tito said:

The only issue here is you need to get out of PT and into that 8 knots of wind which seems to be a good 5nm out into the straits...

Good time for all teams to test out their human propulsion systems :lol: 

Great thing is that the tide will be going out helping the boats closer to the wind.

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Speaking of tides... a 2019 update for favorable passages at Seymour Narrows, 34 hours, 46 hours and 59 hours after the start (+ -):

2019 Currents at Seymour Narrows

June 8, 2019, tides.mobilegeographics.com/locations/5757.html (graphic below: blue is adverse flood, green is favorable ebb)

seymour_narrows_2019.png.2068a0a68222a5d09299160862bc81a1.png

To avoid an opposing flood current, unless you get there in less than ~27 hours and catch the end of an ebb (2:53 pm Friday), the first three opportunities to get past this "gate" appear to be:

  • Friday evening at 9:50 PM (~34 hours after the start, when the ebb begins) until 4:20 AM (when the flood begins)
  • Saturday morning at 9:35 AM (~46 hours after the start) until Saturday afternoon at 3:50 PM (when the flood begins)
  • Saturday evening at 10:41 PM (~59 hours after the start) until Sunday morning at 5:19 AM (when the flood begins)
Ebb flows north (favorable, in green), Flood flows south (adverse, in red):

2019-06-07 Fri 5:13 AM PDT Sunrise
2019-06-07 Fri 5:52 AM PDT 6.5 knots Max Flood
2019-06-07 Fri 8:31 AM PDT -0.0 knots Slack, Ebb Begins
2019-06-07 Fri 11:55 AM PDT -9.9 knots Max Ebb
2019-06-07 Fri 2:53 PM PDT 0.0 knots Slack, Flood Begins
2019-06-07 Fri 6:16 PM PDT 12.5 knots Max Flood
2019-06-07 Fri 9:27 PM PDT Sunset
2019-06-07 Fri 9:50 PM PDT -0.0 knots Slack, Ebb Begins
2019-06-08 Sat 1:00 AM PDT -10.5 knots Max Ebb
2019-06-08 Sat 4:20 AM PDT 0.0 knots Slack, Flood Begins
2019-06-08 Sat 5:12 AM PDT Sunrise
2019-06-08 Sat 6:53 AM PDT 6.3 knots Max Flood
2019-06-08 Sat 9:35 AM PDT -0.0 knots Slack, Ebb Begins
2019-06-08 Sat 12:54 PM PDT -8.9 knots Max Ebb
2019-06-08 Sat 3:50 PM PDT 0.0 knots Slack, Flood Begins
2019-06-08 Sat 7:13 PM PDT 11.4 knots Max Flood
2019-06-08 Sat 9:28 PM PDT Sunset
2019-06-08 Sat 10:41 PM PDT -0.0 knots Slack, Ebb Begins
2019-06-09 Sun 1:56 AM PDT -10.3 knots Max Ebb
2019-06-09 Sun 5:12 AM PDT Sunrise
2019-06-09 Sun 5:19 AM PDT 0.0 knots Slack, Flood Begins
2019-06-09 Sun 7:58 AM PDT 6.6 knots Max Flood
2019-06-09 Sun 10:48 AM PDT -0.0 knots Slack, Ebb Begins
2019-06-09 Sun 1:59 PM PDT -8.1 knots Max Ebb
2019-06-09 Sun 4:54 PM PDT 0.0 knots Slack, Flood Begins
2019-06-09 Sun 8:15 PM PDT 10.3 knots Max Flood
2019-06-09 Sun 9:29 PM PDT Sunset
2019-06-09 Sun 11:00 PM PDT First Quarter
2019-06-09 Sun 11:35 PM PDT -0.0 knots Slack, Ebb Begins
2019-06-10 Mon 2:55 AM PDT -10.3 knots Max Ebb
2019-06-10 Mon 5:11 AM PDT Sunrise
2019-06-10 Mon 6:18 AM PDT 0.0 knots Slack, Flood Begins
2019-06-10 Mon 9:07 AM PDT 7.4 knots Max Flood
2019-06-10 Mon 12:07 PM PDT -0.0 knots Slack, Ebb Begins
2019-06-10 Mon 3:12 PM PDT -7.7 knots Max Ebb
2019-06-10 Mon 6:06 PM PDT 0.0 knots Slack, Flood Begins
2019-06-10 Mon 9:20 PM PDT 9.4 knots Max Flood
2019-06-10 Mon 9:30 PM PDT Sunset

R2AK History at Seymour Narrows

In 2015, Team Elsie Piddock made it to Seymour Narrows in just under 30 hours (~148 miles via the Trincomali Channel and Porlier Pass).
In 2016, Team MAD Dog got though Seymour Narrows only ~24(?) hours after the start!

 

from my R2AK notes gathered here: http://wingojo.com/r2ak/
including Unofficial Route Map

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I've had a copy (in large print) of your Seymour tide guide the last two years. Thanks. Happy that I won't need it this year, but looking forward to Monday. I don't think we're going to have a 40 minute lead on the fleet this year. Be happy to get there in the top handful.

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2 hours ago, Tunnel Rat said:

If the forecast comes true then the Schock 40 should get to Victoria first....... 

Depending on the seastate - the bigger multis should be able too keep up - or better - but its just to get there -no point to press in the first stage. 

On Thursday it seems like a perfect start with W-SW 7-11ms - perfect for multis - no waves - shelter from land - later less wind but good direction - will go fast to the narrows - if this holds up.

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43 minutes ago, SeaGul said:

Depending on the seastate - the bigger multis should be able too keep up - or better - but its just to get there -no point to press in the first stage. 

On Thursday it seems like a perfect start with W-SW 7-11ms - perfect for multis - no waves - shelter from land - later less wind but good direction - will go fast to the narrows - if this holds up.

I would have thought that Schock would outpoint the multis quite comfortably.  For reaching - I think it would be close or advantage to the multis, but close hauled, I think the Schock would come out ahead.

Disclaimer - pure speculation not based on any concrete evidence.

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If a tri is sailed hard - and the seastate is not too bad - it has much more stability and a very slim ama to cut the waves - so it should be no contest  really... 

I see the Shock is advanced with swing keel etc - but its 3,05m wide and has limited stability - it probably better against multis in medium - if more the 5-7ms the trimarans stability will come into play.

 

 

Based on simple calculations - and some experience with tris against fast monos.

 

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I raced into Ensenada Bay on a  Reynolds 33 in 15+ knots of breeze side by side with a Schock and I can say for a fact that the Schock is no joke.  The finish was almost straight downwind, we were heating it up and jibing frequently whilst the Schock ran straight down the rhumb line.  VMG was probably 15+ and we finished side by side.  The Schock had a huge spin up and I think was run by a bunch of pros.  

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1 hour ago, mundt said:

I raced into Ensenada Bay on a  Reynolds 33 in 15+ knots of breeze side by side with a Schock and I can say for a fact that the Schock is no joke.  The finish was almost straight downwind, we were heating it up and jibing frequently whilst the Schock ran straight down the rhumb line.  VMG was probably 15+ and we finished side by side.  The Schock had a huge spin up and I think was run by a bunch of pros.

There is still this mis-conception that multis aren't fast upwind...
In fact modern monos are getting faster and faster downwind to the point that they are keeping up with a lot of multis. But they are still pretty much limited by hullspeed upwind (can any keelboats actually plane upwind these days?) so when the breeze is up it's upwind that the biggest gains are to be made for the multis.

Not exactly super modern boats but as an example, my F-24 is pretty well matched with a Melges 24 downwind over a fairly wide wind range (except when they first start planning then I'm left in the dust) but if it's blowing over 15 my VMG upwind is significantly better, and not just in flat water...

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The unique design of the Schock would need a skilled crew to maximize its performance and It seems like it would require a lot of energy to keep it moving under human power but they are very fast boats.  If nothing breaks and they are able to push I think they'll be right up close to the front with some of the fast tris. 

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SkiffSailingFoundation guys/gals know how to push their boats to the limit. More of a cult really comprised of cool sailors on sweet boats.

I'd expect strong finishes on all legs. Look for another SSF Team at this weekends Delta Ditch.

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Anybody know the displacement on TPSR's 10.6m trimaran?  As long as she's not heavy she should be faster than the Schock 40 on all points of sail in anything but a drifter.  But, I wouldn't expect her to be so much faster that the sailors won't make the difference.  Should be a race.  GO Angry Beaver!

My prediction:

1st) Angry Beaver

2nd) Pear Shaped Racing

3rd) Givin' The Horns

4th) Sail Like a Girl

 

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Yeah - some more data could be nice... Shock looks like could easy have some failure if logs - with this extreme high aspect foils and rudders - and the swing keel also. 

Its a very narrow boat - to be 40ft and the sailplan upwind isnt that big - but then  Dragon has conservative mast height too - and smaller sailplan than the SH40 - some say... 

I will guess the Dragon is 1300kgs + 3 crew - so 1700kgs total? 

SH40 is 3175kg + 6 crew at 500kg - 3700kgs total. At 40ft lenght and 3,05m wide - it will probably go well upwind in some seas - but then Dragon is 35ft with long piercing bows - should go even better...

Downwind SH40 has very big spinnaker - can be hard to follow in the light - and DDW. 

Winner:  Team Pear Shape

2nd; Other trimaran

3: Mono 

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9 hours ago, RandyM81 said:

Anybody know the displacement on TPSR's 10.6m trimaran?  As long as she's not heavy she should be faster than the Schock 40 on all points of sail in anything but a drifter.  But, I wouldn't expect her to be so much faster that the sailors won't make the difference.  Should be a race.  GO Angry Beaver!

My prediction:

1st) Angry Beaver

2nd) Pear Shaped Racing

3rd) Givin' The Horns

4th) Sail Like a Girl

 

Randy - we weigh 1400kgs with sails and safety gear. Heading to PT this morning, looking forward to the pre race festivities this weekend. If the forecast holds for Monday we should have breeze. 

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8 hours ago, 40Plus said:

Randy - we weigh 1400kgs with sails and safety gear. Heading to PT this morning, looking forward to the pre race festivities this weekend. If the forecast holds for Monday we should have breeze. 

And your max working sail area?

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Using Dragon fully loaded at ~1800kg and the Schock 40 at ~3800kg, plus the Schock’ sail area at ~63.3 m2 for both boats, my “fag packet” calculator says that their theoretical average speeds are ~12.2 and ~10.8 knots respectively, which fully supports Randy’s view on their relative performances.

I would expect Dragon to have more sail area than that and I know which one should be easier to “paddle”....assuming their HP setups are equally good.

This race has always been won by the best prepared, best sailed boat which made all the tidal and weather “gates” along the course, not necessarily the biggest or fastest, so we shall see..... Looking forward to being a tracker junkie....again.

Good Luck and safe race to all competitors.

 

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8 hours ago, Sidecar said:

Using Dragon fully loaded at ~1800kg and the Schock 40 at ~3800kg, plus the Schock’ sail area at ~63.3 m2 for both boats, my “fag packet” calculator says that their theoretical average speeds are ~12.2 and ~10.8 knots respectively, which fully supports Randy’s view on their relative performances.

I would expect Dragon to have more sail area than that and I know which one should be easier to “paddle”....assuming their HP setups are equally good.

This race has always been won by the best prepared, best sailed boat which made all the tidal and weather “gates” along the course, not necessarily the biggest or fastest, so we shall see..... Looking forward to being a tracker junkie....again.

Good Luck and safe race to all competitors.

 

Tracker junkie can be fun Sidecar, we can’t all be out there doing it all the time!

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Best of luck to all and keep in mind that the water is over your head.  It may not be the sea but is just as deadly.  Please put safety first and pushing the shit out of your boat second. 

And for those from armchairs telling us who should finish first, stop.  You have to sail the course and clearly you are not.   

 

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Best of luck to all and keep in mind that the water is over your head.  It may not be the sea but is just as deadly.  Please put safety first and pushing the shit out of your boat second. 

And for those from armchairs telling us who should finish first, stop.  You have to sail the course and clearly you are not.   

 

I have a little experience sailing the course. And even if I didn't, what's wrong with a little betting on the horse race!?

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11 minutes ago, RandyM81 said:

I have a little experience sailing the course. And even if I didn't, what's wrong with a little betting on the horse race!?

Great respect for you and how you crushed it.  I just think each boat should sail their race without any expectations.  I don't want to clog this thread so please pm me if you'd like to talk further (big boat  and multi sailor).  Thanks.  

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Anyone following the 70/48 race. It was just won by a double shell, but the rest of the fleet is stretched out for 50 miles. I'll only ever be a tracker junkie on that race. I don't have what it takes. Looking forward (just like Sidecar said) to being a tracker junkie on the R2AK this year. Looking windy for Monday.

 

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1 hour ago, Russell Brown said:

Anyone following the 70/48 race. It was just won by a double shell, but the rest of the fleet is stretched out for 50 miles.

Since you mentioned it... 10 hours 49 minutes in this: 

shell.thumb.jpg.98556bd7e837060aa03210f03fd83285.jpg

https://seventy48.com/
http://tracker.seventy48.com/

Seventy48 Live Stream at finish in PT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uag8iNM1798

(Will that live stream camera cover the R2AK start Monday morning?)

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Tomorrow looks to be a real test. Big wind against the ebb in the morning.

https://sailish.com/index.php/2019/06/02/bruces-wx-brief-for-r2ak-pt-townsend-to-victoria-the-weather-will-show-no-mercy-for-the-weak-or-unprepared/

The unprepared will get punished. Might be better to watch from the bar.

Prepared or unprepared, I wouldn't want to be out there in a paddle board, kayak, or canoe. Maybe hug the shore out to Dungeness, then post up and wait for a break before attempting to cross the strait? Tuesday looks better...

A couple years ago we found the HRRR forecast to be the most useful and reliable for the area. Not sure if anything's better today.

Good luck to all. Be safe.

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I've never been a fan of a delayed start as it unfairly punishes boats that are prepared for the conditions, but in this case, would be ok knowing that 10% of the fleet won't survive.  15 is just great sailing, 25, a bit tougher.  Hope all will be safe.

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A gale watch is out for Monday  - this will be a real shakedown ...  

 

Of course people are prepared - but here lots of broken carbon has occured when mainsail is reefed due to forces take different angels - extra stays can solve the problem.

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Tracker is not stable - but Russel is in the lead as usual - with the Figaro 2 - and I think Angry Beaver and The girls after - Narhwal also going good. Cant see The Pear Shaped...

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23 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

One hour into the race and we have no idea who is leading...  The tracker sucks.

(First World problems.) But  are you not seeing this?  At 0600, Shut Up and Russell in the “leads”. (EDIT: aside from TPSR tracker issue.)

DF458ECC-556C-452B-80C3-997C428C5F20.jpeg

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From TPSR FB page..." Hi everyone, We have rebooted our tracker twice but apparently it shows is in Victoria. On the lead and Having a good sail, taking it easy and enjoy the day."

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From TPSR FB side - they have tried to reboot the tracker - but they are in the lead . having a good sail. 

From Angry B vid - the seastate is not bad at all.

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Appears conditions are very moderate compared to the forecast last night.

Angry Beaver looking good. Will be interesting to see how Shut Up and Drive's split works out for them.

Wish we knew where TPSR is.

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38 minutes ago, kokopelli said:

From TPSR FB page..." Hi everyone, We have rebooted our tracker twice but apparently it shows is in Victoria. On the lead and Having a good sail, taking it easy and enjoy the day."

Fried splitter?

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16 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

Fried splitter?

Tracker glitch shows a bunch of boats clustered together in a bunch, Solveig, etc., including TPSR.  Looks like a feeding frenzy of sea lions in a school of salmon :-) (NW of where Oaracle is behind the little island [name escapes me] in pic.)   

929F8A3D-546B-48A3-B502-30FEC316B937.jpeg

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TPSR tracker now showing in Port Townsend...... Are they on a time delay or something? They were showing in Victoria earlier....

On the leaderboard they appear at the bottom as having not started, along with Solveig, BTW......

Fired splitter is a 2018 Sydney Hobart joke.......

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3 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

TPSR tracker now showing in Port Townsend...... Are they on a time delay or something? They were showing in Victoria earlier....

didnt I say that boat is fast....???

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Assuming  TPSR has a good lead - faster than the G32 - that now has some more crew than -18 (heavier) The Shack40 and the Figaro seems very fast too - keeping up with the G32 -  and then we have 3 31-31ft trimarans that want to play too.  Sail like a girl - is not quite keeping up - if this is correct.

 

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On 5/30/2019 at 9:11 AM, Airwick said:

so when the breeze is up it's upwind that the biggest gains are to be made for the multis

Quoting myself, (I know, classy ;)), it does seem like at least the Pear and the G32 are faster upwind than a modern mono in fresh breeze and some chop... and the F31 and F-32 also have more speed (although they won't catch up before the finish...

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Is this Russell or PSR in the lower right corner between the two red and white painted power poles.   It came across the screen so fast I couldn't capture the screen shot fast enough when it was in plain view by the break water.  Russ has gold sails and PSR has black, (I'm in PT and watched the start, now back in bed following) so I think that is Russ. Congrats to em.

Screen Shot 2019-06-03 at 9.14.11 AM.png

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5 minutes ago, Airwick said:

Quoting myself, (I know, classy ;)), it does seem like at least the Pear and the G32 are faster upwind than a modern mono in fresh breeze and some chop... and the F31 and F-32 also have more speed (although they won't catch up before the finish...

Yes no surprise - when the breeze is up the stability combined with lightness and fast hulls are working as intended...

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2 minutes ago, eric1207 said:

Is this Russell or PSR in the lower right corner between the two red and white painted power poles.   It came across the screen so fast I couldn't capture the screen shot fast enough when it was in plain view by the break water.  Russ has gold sails and PSR has black, (I'm in PT and watched the start, now back in bed following) so I think that is Russ. Congrats to em.

Screen Shot 2019-06-03 at 9.14.11 AM.png

Thats the Shock 40. 

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Tracker says f31 Horns in front of Beaver and Shut up.  Opps, edit to say; Beaver now ahead, 0908 hrs, so things may be interesting.  My guys, Narwhal, are from NW Multihull Club) are in hot pursuit.  They have a robust pedaling system but so does Shut up.  Beaver IDK, maybe they can pedal fast too.  Wish there was a camera in the inner harbor, it could be an exciting pedal finish!  Anybody there at the finish?, time for report please.

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It looks like 5 multihull in the first 7 boats.... and the two monos amongst them are larger than any of the multis......

Well done TPSR and Russell!

But the star performance in the race for me was Educated Guess, a Melges 24 looking like they will comfortably beat the Melges 32..... who would have guessed!

It is past 0230 hrs here, i’m off to bed!

PS

Did you notice the cant on TPSR’s rig?

547C6300-75A2-467C-864B-6EF14B6D0DD0.jpeg

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Horns 0929 so must have been some furious pedaling. 

Can anyone post the site where Sidecar got that picture.  Is there an inner harbor webcan?

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I don't think Team Old Fart is racing.  Saw the boat last night and I just don't see how it could be made ready for the trip.  It was tied up at the dock for the start this morning with no one around.

TPSR has a canting rig.  They looked really fast at the start and as they sailed off into the distance.  No reef, unlike most of the boats.

Congrats to Russel and Team PT Watercraft.  Well sailed leg 1.  That boat sure has some magic in her!

I think the Melges 24 was the first boat to cross the line at the start.  There are two in the race, not exactly neck and neck according to the tracker.

Sail like a girl had a really deep reef at the start.  Didn't look like they were racing hard for this leg.  No reason to I guess.

The sailing conditions were actually really nice this morning.  Glad I woke up for the show.

 

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