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Just now, hasher said:

I know very little actually.  But I do care for the people on the planet.  I may not be the best, but I try.  Keeping myself is the least of my problems.

You think you are special because you care for people on the planet?  I advocate a system whereby the common person can become as wealthy as they want to be.  I advocate a system where all of the people have the opportunity to do great things.  Other systems end up causing misery and death for the common person.

Just don't be jealous when someone does greater things than you and becomes more wealthy than you.  What kind of shit is that?

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How much will it take for you to shut the fuck up and never post here again Mis Raz'r Jib? That was fun.

One of the few things you posted I agree with.  It is however the only (legal) entity that has the power to send people with guns to bend you to it's will.

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

You think you are special because you care for people on the planet?  I advocate a system whereby the common person can become as wealthy as they want to be.  I advocate a system where all of the people have the opportunity to do great things.  Other systems end up causing misery and death for the common person.

Just don't be jealous when someone does greater things than you and becomes more wealthy than you.  What kind of shit is that?

I am glad you are self sufficient.  That is great.  Some are not.  If you fall and hit your head, you won't be quite as a right.  I believe in working hard and being the best I can be.  On that, you and I agree.

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1 minute ago, hasher said:

I am glad you are self sufficient.  That is great.  Some are not.  If you fall and hit your head, you won't be quite as a right.  I believe in working hard and being the best I can be.  On that, you and I agree.

I want everyone to be able to be successful.  I think government tends to stand in their way.  How do you suppose we help those that are not?  With other people's money?

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

I want everyone to be able to be successful.  I think government tends to stand in their way.  How do you suppose we help those that are not?  With other people's money?

I had a good start.  My father made very little money.  But he and my mother loved me.  Still do.  It was very important.  Not everyone has that.  This is not an easy equation to solve.  I am glad you are well.  I have this fantasy we can all be.

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1 minute ago, Contumacious Tom said:

Great but I meant the real ones. They're planning to go to Mars now. You'll need to expand the caring zone to the solar system.

Is there someone out there?  I guess we don't know yet.

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Just now, hasher said:

I had a good start.  My father made very little money.  But he and my mother loved me.  Still do.  It was very important.  Not everyone has that.  This is not an easy equation to solve.  I am glad you are well.  I have this fantasy we can all be.

Your start has nothing to do with other people's start.  In my experience, successful people become successful people for reasons other than family wealth, education, upbringing, etc.   And success is not taught in our public education system.  Of course, someone that "gets it" will use their education, family wealth, or whatever else as a tool to help their success.  But it is not the cause.

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6 minutes ago, jzk said:

Your start has nothing to do with other people's start.  In my experience, successful people become successful people for reasons other than family wealth, education, upbringing, etc.   And success is not taught in our public education system.  Of course, someone that "gets it" will use their education, family wealth, or whatever else as a tool to help their success.  But it is not the cause.

I only have this little supply of knowledge.  I had love and I gave my children love.  Thankfully, we are successful. YMV

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16 minutes ago, hasher said:

Is there someone out there?  I guess we don't know yet.

No, I don't mean another probe. I mean humans. They're picking them now. My little joke has now dragged on far too long, but we'll have to start caring about the humans on Mars. We can start with any in orbit now.

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Just now, Contumacious Tom said:

No, I don't mean another probe. I mean humans. They're picking them now. My little joke has now dragged on far too long, but we'll have to start caring about the humans on Mars. We can start with any in orbit now.

Good luck.

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2 hours ago, hasher said:
2 hours ago, jzk said:

Your start has nothing to do with other people's start.  In my experience, successful people become successful people for reasons other than family wealth, education, upbringing, etc.   And success is not taught in our public education system.  Of course, someone that "gets it" will use their education, family wealth, or whatever else as a tool to help their success.  But it is not the cause.

I only have this little supply of knowledge.  I had love and I gave my children love.  Thankfully, we are successful. YMV 

Gosh, I thought JZK had exhausted this vein of stupidity but apparently he's digging out another motherload.

Tell us, why are successful people successful, if it has nothing to do with their family wealth, or their education, or their upbringing? What else is there? God's destiny? Dotting the "i" in "Capitalism" with a little smiley-face?

It also begs the question, what "successful" people do you have experience with?

-DSK

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2 hours ago, hasher said:
2 hours ago, jzk said:

...   ...   ...

I am glad you are self sufficient.  That is great.  Some are not.  If you fall and hit your head, you won't be quite as a right.  I believe in working hard and being the best I can be.  On that, you and I agree.

Reading his posts, it would be kind of a surprise if JZK can sit up and feed himself . Falling and hitting his head might be an improvement.

-DSK

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18 hours ago, Left Shift said:

That was Dale Carnegie.  Andrew Carnegie was one of the big four "robber barons" of the 1890s

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Have to give Carnegie credit for one thing though. He was a very old-fashioned Presbyterian and believed that one could not enter heaven rich (something to that effect in the Bible that most Christians ignore today). Hence he gave away vas's sums of money - Carnegie libraries, Carnegie Hall, Carnegie-Mellon U, etc). Rockefeller was also a major philanthropist. Vanderbilt and Morgan not so much. I think Vanderbilt was too busy spending money on boats.

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1 minute ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Have to give Carnegie credit for one thing though. He was a very old-fashioned Presbyterian and believed that one could not enter heaven rich (something to that effect in the Bible that most Christians ignore today). Hence he gave away vas's sums of money - Carnegie libraries, Carnegie Hall, Carnegie-Mellon U, etc). Rockefeller was also a major philanthropist. Vanderbilt and Morgan not so much. I think Vanderbilt was too busy spending money on boats.

Carnegie made a lot of money.  More than I.  He gave it away.  Rockefeller owned 5% of the American economy.  I think his treasure survives. 

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1 minute ago, hasher said:

Carnegie made a lot of money.  More than I.  He gave it away.  Rockefeller owned 5% of the American economy.  I think his treasure survives. 

I didn't mean to suggest that Rockefeller was in the same give-it-away class as Carnegie. The role played by the Rockefeller Foundation in starting the Green Revolution saved many millions of lives. Without it the world today would be a much worse place.  I just am not aware of any major contributions by the Morgan Foundation or Vanderbilt Foundation if they even exist.

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16 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Have to give Carnegie credit for one thing though. He was a very old-fashioned Presbyterian and believed that one could not enter heaven rich (something to that effect in the Bible that most Christians ignore today). Hence he gave away vas's sums of money - Carnegie libraries, Carnegie Hall, Carnegie-Mellon U, etc). Rockefeller was also a major philanthropist. Vanderbilt and Morgan not so much. I think Vanderbilt was too busy spending money on boats.

That's a form of philanthropy. You have lots of otherwise unemployable people who are bound and determined to draw and/or build boats all day. They're not going to suddenly decide to change. Might as well make a jobs program out of it. I think Kim B carries on the charity work.

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1 minute ago, Contumacious Tom said:

That's a form of philanthropy. You have lots of otherwise unemployable people who are bound and determined to draw and/or build boats all day. They're not going to suddenly decide to change. Might as well make a jobs program out of it.

At the end of the day, we are God's children.  Boat building sounds wonderful.  I've only had a few.

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Gosh, I thought JZK had exhausted this vein of stupidity but apparently he's digging out another motherload.

Tell us, why are successful people successful, if it has nothing to do with their family wealth, or their education, or their upbringing? What else is there? God's destiny? Dotting the "i" in "Capitalism" with a little smiley-face?

It also begs the question, what "successful" people do you have experience with?

-DSK

Well see, maybe that is why you are where you are.

To answer your question, there is hard work, drive and determination.  And it is certainly related to family wealth, education and upbringing.  Those households are generally run by successful people, so they teach their children how to be successful.  

Over the years, I have employed hundreds of people.  Like over 500.  I know the difference between a good, hardworking employee, and not.

And, I have experience with many successful people.   Most of them tell me that if they lost every penny and were dropped anywhere in the US, they could find their way back to where they were in a few years.  They have "it" and know what it takes.

Not surprised at all that you have no idea what it takes.

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JZK should apply for one of those Far-Reich federal judge-ships they are passing around . . 

He's got the right ignorant and arrogant Reichista attitude for it . . (I know several of them - they get groomed for the job 

by the likes of the Federalist Society to defend, preserve and protect monied interests) 

As Marx commented on the Bourbon kings, "he learns nothing, and forgets nothing." 

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2 hours ago, jzk said:
4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

...    ...    ... Tell us, why are successful people successful, if it has nothing to do with their family wealth, or their education, or their upbringing? What else is there? God's destiny? Dotting the "i" in "Capitalism" with a little smiley-face?

It also begs the question, what "successful" people do you have experience with?

 

Well see, maybe that is why you are where you are.

To answer your question, there is hard work, drive and determination.  And it is certainly related to family wealth, education and upbringing.  Those households are generally run by successful people, so they teach their children how to be successful.  

Over the years, I have employed hundreds of people.  Like over 500.  I know the difference between a good, hardworking employee, and not.

And, I have experience with many successful people.   Most of them tell me that if they lost every penny and were dropped anywhere in the US, they could find their way back to where they were in a few years.  They have "it" and know what it takes.

Not surprised at all that you have no idea what it takes.

 

Then why did you say it had nothing to do with those? Is it your upbringing that makes you say retarded things?

As for me not knowing what it takes to be successful, all I can say is that among the many many things you have no clue about, is where I am in life..... and this is after I have told you enough basics to go on.

-DSK

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4 hours ago, hasher said:

Carnegie made a lot of money.  More than I.  He gave it away.  Rockefeller owned 5% of the American economy.  I think his treasure survives. 

Rockefeller had a boatload of money, obviously.  As a percent of the GDP, 1.5% to 2% is the assumed range, which is quite a bit.  Estimated to be one of the two or three richest people to ever have lived.  

Rockefeller philanthropy was extensive.  The Rockefeller Foundation was his biggest foundation and the largest in the world until Gates came along.  As remarkable was his support for anti-slavery efforts and African American institutions and higher education including giving huge boosts to the University of Chicago, Spelman College, Rockefeller University and American University in the Philipines.  

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9 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Bezos' philanthropy is also highly regarded.

I think his wife's divorce attorney will be enforcing some philanthropy on him to account for his philandering. Of course, he brought that on himself in the hiring process. He famously said, I wanted a woman who could get me out of a 3rd-world prison.

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8 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

I think his wife's divorce attorney will be enforcing some philanthropy on him to account for his philandering. Of course, he brought that on himself in the hiring process. He famously said, I wanted a woman who could get me out of a 3rd-world prison.

Goes with the public contract of marriage. You break that contract, there's consequences.....

 I tell that to everyone that I perform marriage vows for..... I'm pretty blunt. I don't go for the under the eye of god shit, I tell them that they are engaging in a legally binding contract.

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:
35 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Bezos' philanthropy is also highly regarded.

There is no way that Bezos could serve society as well through philanthropy as he does through his business.

Considering that his business success is what has (or would) enable his philanthropy, this is a singularly stupid thing to say, even for you.

-DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Considering that his business success is what has (or would) enable his philanthropy, this is a singularly stupid thing to say, even for you.

-DSK

You are stupid.  Nothing is more clear than that.  Bezos should spend his time growing his business because that would serve society far more than any of his philanthropic effortd.

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LOL

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I have some respect for those that actually have pulled themselves up by their boot-straps. Even in countries where that is actually resting on public education funded by others, clean water and logisitical infrastructure funded by others, etc. So those that went to public school, paid for their own education, and started their careers working for people they met solely because they were the best candidate? Yeah, I might listen a bit to them about what it takes to be a success. Those that had Daddy's money growing up buying them advantages and opportunities, Daddy's money helping them through college/university, and spend years working for Daddy &/or a contact they met because of Daddy's success? Not so much respect for their opinion of what it takes to succeed on their own. 

I've generally found that the former are strong advocates of democratic socialism and regulatory controls on runaway capitalism.The latter, I've found, tend to be more insecure about their position in life, knowing how they got there and all, and so advocate ways that keep others from "usurping" it from them. 

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4 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

I have some respect for those that actually have pulled themselves up by their boot-straps. Even in countries where that is actually resting on public education funded by others, clean water and logisitical infrastructure funded by others, etc. So those that went to public school, paid for their own education, and started their careers working for people they met solely because they were the best candidate? Yeah, I might listen a bit to them about what it takes to be a success. Those that had Daddy's money growing up buying them advantages and opportunities, Daddy's money helping them through college/university, and spend years working for Daddy &/or a contact they met because of Daddy's success? Not so much respect for their opinion of what it takes to succeed on their own. 

I've generally found that the former are strong advocates of democratic socialism and regulatory controls on runaway capitalism.The latter, I've found, tend to be more insecure about their position in life, knowing how they got there and all, and so advocate ways that keep others from "usurping" it from them. 

That is not a case for anything.

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5 hours ago, jzk said:

Well see, maybe that is why you are where you are.

To answer your question, there is hard work, drive and determination.  And it is certainly related to family wealth, education and upbringing.  Those households are generally run by successful people, so they teach their children how to be successful.  

Over the years, I have employed hundreds of people.  Like over 500.  I know the difference between a good, hardworking employee, and not.

And, I have experience with many successful people.   Most of them tell me that if they lost every penny and were dropped anywhere in the US, they could find their way back to where they were in a few years.  They have "it" and know what it takes.

Not surprised at all that you have no idea what it takes.

and that attitude translates to all scales of financial success ...other than politicians exhibit A...the Clinton's wealth

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9 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

and that attitude translates to all scales of financial success ...other than politicians exhibit A...the Clinton's wealth

Uh, both the Clintons started out poor.  And for the bolded part of jzk's post? As Mike Tyson said "everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"  - it's really easy to state if you lose everything you can do it again - sure, get back after you have done it.  Talk is cheap.

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48 minutes ago, jzk said:

You are stupid.  Nothing is more clear than that.  Bezos should spend his time growing his business because that would serve society far more than any of his philanthropic effortd.

As I see it, Bezos is now the richest person in the world.  That might be about the time that you look around and ask what can you do with an essentially infinite amount of money.  Asking, "What do I believe in?"  That's what Mary Gates challenged her son with, and the world is certainly better served by his subsequent actions than by an even larger Microsoft.  

Walmart grew beyond its useful size by driving down costs, damaging small businesses and emptying Main Streets across the country.  Will Amazon be remembered in the same way?

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

As I see it, Bezos is now the richest person in the world.  That might be about the time that you look around and ask what can you do with an essentially infinite amount of money.  Asking, "What do I believe in?"  That's what Mary Gates challenged her son with, and the world is certainly better served by his subsequent actions than by an even larger Microsoft.  

Walmart grew beyond its useful size by driving down costs, damaging small businesses and emptying Main Streets across the country.  Will Amazon be remembered in the same way?

So if someone benefits society beyond what you think is " useful" to you, then their earned wealth is up for grabs?

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35 minutes ago, jzk said:

So if someone benefits society beyond what you think is " useful" to you, then their earned wealth is up for grabs?

I hope you are getting nothing more than your base troll fee for this crap.  Even that is a waste of money for your handlers.

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4 minutes ago, Left Shift said:
41 minutes ago, jzk said:

So if someone benefits society beyond what you think is " useful" to you, then their earned wealth is up for grabs?

I hope you are getting nothing more than your base troll fee for this crap.  Even that is a waste of money for your handlers.

Clearly the all-bean diet is not helping his output.

I've been trying to goad him into posting something funny but it may be a lost cause

-DSK

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20 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Clearly the all-bean diet is not helping his output.

I've been trying to goad him into posting something funny but it may be a lost cause

-DSK

Try under a different rock?

I thought this a pretty good punch line

On 2/10/2019 at 6:35 AM, Contumacious Tom said:

from Justice Stevens in Citizens United:

Quote

We have long since held that corporations are covered by the First Amendment

Um... Or something.

 

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53 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Clearly the all-bean diet is not helping his output.

I've been trying to goad him into posting something funny but it may be a lost cause

-DSK

Is it that you are jealous of how much Bezos and other "robber barons" have contributed to society compared to you?

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7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I'm quite fortunate in that I little reason to be jealous of anybody

-DSK

Yet you have much to complain about other people and some strange drive to control them.  Is it a sickness?

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On 2/9/2019 at 8:45 PM, BillDBastard said:

Wholly crap. Are you serious? Talk about derangement syndrome and bastardization.

Capitalism is two people coming to an agreement on what is a fair price for goods or services. In its purest form either party can decide not to go ahead with the transaction if they do not feel it is equitable. That is the essence of capitalism. Economics 101.

As Sam Donaldson recently pointed out, what we have now in America is not capitalism.

umm, no. that is not what capitalism is, if you actually care about the meanings of words.

What you described was free-trade, which could be barter, or using some means of currency. There may be the concept of "profit", but that's not necessary. It has nothing to do with the ownership and employment of excess capital, which is what Capital'ism, get it?, means.

Capitalism, as we've seen, doesn't really LIKE free-trade. 

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22 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

LIKE free-trade. 

As a lawyer, I endorse this statement.  I like a very protected market.  It keeps the rates up.  Oh, I will sell you a load of...  Nevermind.  Talking out of school.

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8 hours ago, jzk said:

Yet you have much to complain about other people and some strange drive to control them.  Is it a sickness?

In order to have the symphony of self interest, you must have feedback from the others, or it is not a symphony.  (same sound, working together, right) You seem to view this feedback as complaint and control of the other person instead of what it is, feedback.  JZK, this doesn't work for me.

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9 minutes ago, Laker said:

In order to have the symphony of self interest, you must have feedback from the others, or it is not a symphony.  (same sound, working together, right) You seem to view this feedback as complaint and control of the other person instead of what it is, feedback.  JZK, this doesn't work for me.

If I am in a transaction with another person, why do you feel the need to be involved in our symphony?   Leave us alone please.

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2 hours ago, jzk said:

If I am in a transaction with another person, why do you feel the need to be involved in our symphony?   Leave us alone please.

If indeed your symphony gets in the way of my symphony.  Remember, there are more than two players in a symphony and that is where the trouble begins.  2 people, 4 interactions, 3 people, 9 interactions, 4 people, 16 interactions.........you get the idea.

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31 minutes ago, Laker said:

If indeed your symphony gets in the way of my symphony.  Remember, there are more than two players in a symphony and that is where the trouble begins.  2 people, 4 interactions, 3 people, 9 interactions, 4 people, 16 interactions.........you get the idea.

Seldom.

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56 minutes ago, Laker said:

If indeed your symphony gets in the way of my symphony.  Remember, there are more than two players in a symphony and that is where the trouble begins.  2 people, 4 interactions, 3 people, 9 interactions, 4 people, 16 interactions.........you get the idea.

Do not join the symphony with us unless you are agreeable to all of its terms.  I would never try to force you to be in our symphony.  But if you are not in our symphony, please leave us alone and do not try to tell us how to have our symphony.

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50 minutes ago, jzk said:

Do not join the symphony with us unless you are agreeable to all of its terms.  I would never try to force you to be in our symphony.  But if you are not in our symphony, please leave us alone and do not try to tell us how to have our symphony.

But you can't leave me out of a symphony.  That is what it is all about.  A common working of the economy.  The self interest of all.  Two are a duet.  Three are a trio.  A symphony is big , otherwise it is just two people pissing in the wind.  It is the "symphony" of self-interest.

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2 minutes ago, Laker said:

But you can't leave me out of a symphony.  That is what it is all about.  A common working of the economy.  The self interest of all.  Two are a duet.  Three are a trio.  A symphony is big , otherwise it is just two people pissing in the wind.  It is the "symphony" of self-interest.

Yes I can.  You aren't in every orchestra.  I want to join this orchestra, but I have little experience.  So I want to offer to work for the orchestra for $3.00/hour sweeping the orchestra floor and playing with them and watching them play.  They said they would do it.  And they would teach me.  Why do I have to get your approval?   Once I learn from these masters, I will be able to command a very livable wage.  Why are you interfering with my dreams?

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15 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Because you can't play and are just fiddling around?

 I realize that you would tell every poor unskilled person that they can never move forward in their life.  And that is why we can't have people like you controlling other people.

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34 minutes ago, jzk said:

Yes I can.  You aren't in every orchestra.  I want to join this orchestra, but I have little experience.  So I want to offer to work for the orchestra for $3.00/hour sweeping the orchestra floor and playing with them and watching them play.  They said they would do it.  And they would teach me.  Why do I have to get your approval?   Once I learn from these masters, I will be able to command a very livable wage.  Why are you interfering with my dreams?

Maybe I just don't like you.  Perhaps you are an Irishman.  You have to deal with that when you are dealing with the symphony of self-interest.  

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2 minutes ago, Laker said:

Maybe I just don't like you.  Perhaps you are an Irishman.  You have to deal with that when you are dealing with the symphony of self-interest.  

If you don't like me, and you don't want me in your orchestra, for whatever stupid reason, no problem.  I would rather not be in your orchestra if you are a racist.  I will find another orchestra where everyone wants to be there and wants everyone else there.   And the group of us will figure out how we will run things.  Why are you trying to run our orchestra?  Leave us alone please.

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2 hours ago, jzk said:

If you don't like me, and you don't want me in your orchestra, for whatever stupid reason, no problem.  I would rather not be in your orchestra if you are a racist.  I will find another orchestra where everyone wants to be there and wants everyone else there.   And the group of us will figure out how we will run things.  Why are you trying to run our orchestra?  Leave us alone please.

No, I wont.  Another free market failure.

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Let me put to you a pretty standard example of the "leave alone" example of free market failure.  A native burial ground sits on some land owned by you to which they have no title.  You talk to your associate about putting up condos.  Do you have the right to be "left alone" and bring about profit?

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2 hours ago, Laker said:

Let me put to you a pretty standard example of the "leave alone" example of free market failure.  A native burial ground sits on some land owned by you to which they have no title.  You talk to your associate about putting up condos.  Do you have the right to be "left alone" and bring about profit?

This exact scenario is going on in London, where somebody found the Globe Theater under a parking lot, in Egypt, where somebody just uncovered some mummies under a shopping mall, in Mexico where Aztec and Toltec ruins and burial grounds are being uncovered, in Chile, were Incan artifacts are being found.  

So you wouldn't be alone.  Today, no you do not have an absolute "right" to be "left alone", but likely have a path.  You are in for some serious conversations with the local tribe, the State Historic Preservation Office, archaeologists and perhaps some land trusts.  Probable result is some profit but not in pre-discovery amounts.  

But for you there are many questions, but probably the most important is "When did you know it and how did you discover it"?  Did the seller know and disclose it?

And most important "Who is this "associate" that suddenly popped up?"

 

 

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8 hours ago, Laker said:

Let me put to you a pretty standard example of the "leave alone" example of free market failure.  A native burial ground sits on some land owned by you to which they have no title.  You talk to your associate about putting up condos.  Do you have the right to be "left alone" and bring about profit?

Yes.

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21 hours ago, Laker said:

If indeed your symphony gets in the way of my symphony.  Remember, there are more than two players in a symphony and that is where the trouble begins.  2 people, 4 interactions, 3 people, 9 interactions, 4 people, 16 interactions.........you get the idea.

You might want to check your math - 2 people is 1 interaction.  3 people is 3 interactions and 4 people is 6 interactions.  Unless we are talking a double round robin then double the numbers. 

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10 minutes ago, Gone Drinking said:

You might want to check your math - 2 people is 1 interaction.  3 people is 3 interactions and 4 people is 6 interactions.  Unless we are talking a double round robin then double the numbers. 

Game theory. 2 people.  Yes,yes.  Yes, no. No,yes.  No,no.

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58 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

straight up land theft from native americans is the freemarket, just ask jerkz. but somehow socialists are bad for "stealing" peoples land.

You are trying to steal my land.

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39 minutes ago, Laker said:

Game theory. 2 people.  Yes,yes.  Yes, no. No,yes.  No,no.

If I sell you my farm that you want to use for low income housing, and it is later discovered that my great grand parents and a bunch of their relatives are buried there, what to do?

Who wins?  The low income housing people that need shelter, or my distant relatives that have been dead 100 years?

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7 minutes ago, jzk said:

If I sell you my farm that you want to use for low income housing, and it is later discovered that my great grand parents and a bunch of their relatives are buried there, what to do?

Who wins?  The low income housing people that need shelter, or my distant relatives that have been dead 100 years?

It depends when the discovery is made, but in your case, as a living heir, you likely have the authority to permit relocation and re-internment of the remains.  Shouldn't be that hard on your psyche, since you didn't even know they were there and you wanted to sell the land.  

Another reason to support cremation.

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11 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

It depends when the discovery is made, but in your case, as a living heir, you likely have the authority to permit relocation and re-internment of the remains.  Shouldn't be that hard on your psyche, since you didn't even know they were there and you wanted to sell the land.  

Another reason to support cremation.

If it is so important to me, then it should be on me to pay for that relocation and re-internment.  Otherwise, I should just move on.  If it turns out there is some ancient artifacts or something that society wants, then how about society purchase that property from the new owner?  It would seem like that owner owns it now.

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Just now, jzk said:

If it is so important to me, then it should be on me to pay for that relocation and re-internment.  Otherwise, I should just move on.  If it turns out there is some ancient artifacts or something that society wants, then how about society purchase that property from the new owner?  It would seem like that owner owns it now.

That societal purchase happens quite often.  

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19 hours ago, jzk said:

If it is so important to me, then it should be on me to pay for that relocation and re-internment.  Otherwise, I should just move on.  If it turns out there is some ancient artifacts or something that society wants, then how about society purchase that property from the new owner?  It would seem like that owner owns it now.

A puzzler, isn't it? When you "own" something, you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want with it! So why does everybody look askance at you and try to intervene when you kick your dog down the street? Why can't I store spent nuclear fuel, or medical waste, in my back yard? I can make a big profit on those things! My fuckin' neighbors should just mind their own goddam business!

Oh and if you could, please explain why are socialism and nuclear power incompatible? Enquiring minds still want to know.

-DSK

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21 hours ago, jzk said:

If I sell you my farm that you want to use for low income housing, and it is later discovered that my great grand parents and a bunch of their relatives are buried there, what to do?

Who wins?  The low income housing people that need shelter, or my distant relatives that have been dead 100 years?

You really ask a lot of stupid questions - how is it that you didn't know about the graves? The new owner can most likely sue you for the failure to disclose and recover the associated costs. The new owner is obligated to either move said graves to a cemetery or section the area off as a grave site.

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13 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

You really ask a lot of stupid questions - how is it that you didn't know about the graves? The new owner can most likely sue you for the failure to disclose and recover the associated costs. The new owner is obligated to either move said graves to a cemetery or section the area off as a grave site.

Man you are a dumbass.  I only have to disclose what I know about.  All of these examples assume the burial sites are discovered post sale.  Try to keep up.

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

Man you are a dumbass.  I only have to disclose what I know about.  All of these examples assume the burial sites are discovered post sale.  Try to keep up.

Funny - I have actual experience dealing with exactly that situation.  Ignorance (sadly for you) is a very poor excuse. Your example of a family owned tract would not hold water.  Care to try again? As to what the development is it seems you have an issue with low income - makes zip difference if that or global corporate HQ.  Of course up stream you also mix in ancient artifacts thus the terrific apples and oranges obfuscation.

Nothing beats being insulted by a moran.

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15 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Funny - I have actual experience dealing with exactly that situation.  Ignorance (sadly for you) is a very poor excuse. Your example of a family owned tract would not hold water.  Care to try again? As to what the development is it seems you have an issue with low income - makes zip difference if that or global corporate HQ.  Of course up stream you also mix in ancient artifacts thus the terrific apples and oranges obfuscation.

Nothing beats being insulted by a moran.

Hey dipshit.  We are making hypothetical scenarios to discuss how certain political and economic philosophies would handle certain situations.  We are not talking about the state of the law as it currently exists.  

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9 hours ago, jzk said:

Hey dipshit.  We are making hypothetical scenarios to discuss how certain political and economic philosophies would handle certain situations.  We are not talking about the state of the law as it currently exists.  

Cool - as long as we are just making shit up you are still an ignorant numbnutz.  Oh wait, I am not making this up.  Better yet - Communism works great in a hypothetical economy.  Even better yet - it isn't necessary to have any skills except bullshitting and conning to become POTUS.  Oh wait, that wasn't hypothetical. Never mind.

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