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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

Right, why not propose a nuclear R&D program or a new plant?

We are building one in Georgia.  Huge delays and cost overruns.  Southern Power is about to make a massive investment in solar and start to close the dirty coal plants.  It doesn't do this because they are green.  They do it because it makes money.  Income disparity is one of largest problems.  So is the bloated for profit prison system.  Atlanta has one of the largest middle class black populations.  Rural Georgia has farming dependent on illegal immigrants and enormous problems for working class people, white and black.

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How much will it take for you to shut the fuck up and never post here again Mis Raz'r Jib? That was fun.

One of the few things you posted I agree with.  It is however the only (legal) entity that has the power to send people with guns to bend you to it's will.

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4 hours ago, hasher said:

We are building one in Georgia.  Huge delays and cost overruns.  Southern Power is about to make a massive investment in solar and start to close the dirty coal plants.  It doesn't do this because they are green.  They do it because it makes money.  Income disparity is one of largest problems.  So is the bloated for profit prison system.  Atlanta has one of the largest middle class black populations.  Rural Georgia has farming dependent on illegal immigrants and enormous problems for working class people, white and black.

What is causing the delays and overruns?

 

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19 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Too complicated. Just say "the dadgum gubbermint" and the dumbass rightie brigade will be happy

-DSK

That's funny.  I was going to make a comment about the passive aggresiveness of Saorsa and the way he desperately fishes for someone to say "it's the environmentalists, and their puppet democrat regulations".  He must be so disappointed when people don't say that.

Score:  Intelligence 1. Saorsa's Fishing: 0

Did you know that an anagram of Saorsa is Ass Oar?

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On 2/17/2019 at 3:26 PM, Laker said:

The issue is that the majority of what she is putting forth is good solid governance, but it does require a shift in culture and particularly in what is important to the individual.  That is why I reject your "three year old" analogy.  People fear her because what she is putting forth has validity, but will affect the how and why of a lot of people.  No, it is not cute and laughable, it is very much a danger to the pre-conceived notions of a lot of people holding power at the moment.  However, they will eventually move into old folks homes and there will be a change in culture that will include many of AOC's concepts.  The culture 10 years down the road will not be the present culture.  Just look at the effect of the smartphone.  The generation of energy will become, for many reasons, cheaper with wind and solar than present fossil fuels.  This is an example of change of culture and many people are afraid of changes in culture.

Please - expound on this "majority" that is good, solid, governance, and help me understand where you draw the line between that and unabashed, inconceivable posturing? 

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On 2/17/2019 at 9:21 PM, Laker said:

I don't think you get it.  The internal combustion engine powered by fossil fuel will become a museum piece because it will price itself into niche markets.  My electric costs about $36 per month for energy.  This compares with the $100 per refill habit of a neighbour's pickup.  At the moment the cost of coal powered electricity exceeds that of wind or solar.  Think of where this is leading.  It will not take long for the majority of drivers to exit using internal combustion engines once their amortized value drops below the fuel differential.  Yes, in the middle of the savanna there may be diesel powered vehicles, but where it matters, the built up areas of the world, there won't be many away from private collections.

$36/month?  How much do you drive - 500 miles/month? 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think you're confusing bemusement w/fear - but, that's OK. 

The focus will shift from her when a frontrunner for 2020 emerges.  Until then, the focus gives her far more power than she would have otherwise had.  She scares the shit out of the establishment on both sides. 

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34 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

"average" driver does 13.4k miles a year. a bunch of electric car owners looked at what they actually drive and realized an electric car works for them. it would probably work for a bunch more drivers. but the market currently incentivizes the purchase of big fuel inefficient vehicles because we've meddled with the market so gasoline is cheap.

We’ve owned three electric cars. We had one of the relatively few Toyota pickup and Rav 4 electrics in the country back when Ca was offering big incentives. They worked well for short commutes and getting around town. Not so well when it was hot, I’m sure that’s been improved. I prefer EVs, though I still love my HEMI.

Just my 2c from the oil patch.

 

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

"average" driver does 13.4k miles a year. a bunch of electric car owners looked at what they actually drive and realized an electric car works for them. it would probably work for a bunch more drivers. but the market currently incentivizes the purchase of big fuel inefficient vehicles because we've meddled with the market so gasoline is cheap.

I'm a fringe case - my daily commute is either 70 or 92 miles each way, in NoVA traffic.  I am really looking forward to a true 300 mile range and quick re-charge, an electric car would be nice for me for lots of reasons: Maintenance, quiet, environmental impact, TORQUE - but, the range and recharge times have to get better before it'll work for me.  

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1 hour ago, chum said:

We’ve owned three electric cars. We had one of the relatively few Toyota pickup and Rav 4 electrics in the country back when Ca was offering big incentives. They worked well for short commutes and getting around town. Not so well when it was hot, I’m sure that’s been improved. I prefer EVs, though I still love my HEMI.

Just my 2c from the oil patch.

Toyota manufactured a pickup EV. I did not know about this. Tell me about it.

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Please - expound on this "majority" that is good, solid, governance, and help me understand where you draw the line between that and unabashed, inconceivable posturing? 

Free education, with the proviso of entrance exams.  Accelerated taxes for high earnings.  Promotion of a Green agenda.  Redefinition of US military policy. (after all the 7th Fleet has shown that there are issues operating what we have) These are things that have been shown to work.  It is different than what is now, but they are not out of the envelope of what is culturally possible.

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10 minutes ago, chum said:

Chevy s10

Something isn't adding up. You said Toyota which didn't manufacture an EV truck but will release the Rivian next year. Chevy had an S10 EV but it was for fleets. Also, you said your EVs didn't work so well when it was hot. I've had a Leaf and now have an S. Heat kills battery life (for lead acid as well) but not range so much. Cold kills range but not life so much.

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7 minutes ago, Laker said:

Free education, with the proviso of entrance exams.  Accelerated taxes for high earnings.  Promotion of a Green agenda.  Redefinition of US military policy. (after all the 7th Fleet has shown that there are issues operating what we have) These are things that have been shown to work.  It is different than what is now, but they are not out of the envelope of what is culturally possible.

So - the platform positions she's staked out beyond those are reasonable by virtue of the sponsor, or is it possible that those who suggest that some of her platform positions are unreasonable and un-achievable might have a point too? 

 

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18 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Something isn't adding up. You said Toyota which didn't manufacture an EV truck but will release the Rivian next year. Chevy had an S10 EV but it was for fleets. Also, you said your EVs didn't work so well when it was hot. I've had a Leaf and now have an S. Heat kills battery life (for lead acid as well) but not range so much. Cold kills range but not life so much.

I owned a business in Davis, it made us eligible for the program, just as for the Rav 4.

The reference to the mileage when it’s hot referred to using the ac. You are correct, and using the heat in winter made it even worse, though we used ac much more than heat in Davis.

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

$36/month?  How much do you drive - 500 miles/month? 

200 miles/ 20KW-hr refill.  About 1000 miles/month  5 refills at $.31/refill.  This is expensive electricity by the way 

 

1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So - the platform positions she's staked out beyond those are reasonable by virtue of the sponsor, or is it possible that those who suggest that some of her platform positions are unreasonable and un-achievable might have a point too? 

 

They may have a point only because they don't want it to be.  These are achievable goals.  Single Payer medical is certainly an achievable goal, it works everywhere else in the world except the US and South Africa, it is just that people do not want it to be.

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I can pay about 9c/kw-hr.  For 200 miles it is 20 kw-hrs.  The cost is then $1.80 per "refill".  That is 10 refills per month for two cars.  That is a lot of driving because we live in the boonies.  There has been zip for maintenance. 

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4 minutes ago, Laker said:

I can pay about 9c/kw-hr.  For 200 miles it is 20 kw-hrs.  The cost is then $1.80 per "refill".  That is 10 refills per month for two cars.  That is a lot of driving because we live in the boonies.  There has been zip for maintenance. 

It made sense in NorCal where PGE gets a large portion of their energy from hydro, what about elsewhere?

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3 minutes ago, Laker said:

I can pay about 9c/kw-hr.  For 200 miles it is 20 kw-hrs.  The cost is then $1.80 per "refill".  That is 10 refills per month for two cars.  That is a lot of driving because we live in the boonies.  There has been zip for maintenance. 

I haven't looked lately - your post prompted me to look it up, and we're at about $.115/KWH -  I suspect that w/the stop/go and sitting of DC of DC traffic I'd be at a slightly higher consumption rate than the 20KWH/200 miles, but, it would still be LOADS cheaper than filling my Outback's tank @ $50/pop 2.5 times a week.   Let's go Model 3!!! 

 

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I dunno if anyone remembers Carl D Freedom - aka Catamoron = one of the wackiest nutters to ever grace PA but he was big on electric ten years ago and brought up a lot of good points, certainly his predictions for acceptance were ahead of myself. Carl brought us the gems like as Eva Dent if that helps. I don't think battery will totally replace IC for sometime but for commuters it is making more sense - it's the stop in stop and go where it's a winner.  Bigger hill to climb in Texas where things are pretty spread out but I can see where one of our vehicles will become electric soon.

Critical mass will be when company parking lots offer plug in with connection to the grid to help with peak demands during the day. 

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23 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

 

I haven't looked lately - your post prompted me to look it up, and we're at about $.115/KWH -  I suspect that w/the stop/go and sitting of DC of DC traffic I'd be at a slightly higher consumption rate than the 20KWH/200 miles, but, it would still be LOADS cheaper than filling my Outback's tank @ $50/pop 2.5 times a week.   Let's go Model 3!!! 

 

Up here the new Kia is getting good reviews.

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EVs are great in stop and go. First, they aren't idling and second they're dead quiet. EVs generally have better city mileage than highway because city driving is slower and that means less aerodynamic drag.

The US didn't have any CHAdeMO until 2011. I think it showed up with the Leaf, starting at dealerships. If you did an EV trip in 2005 you'd probably be using 30 or 50A RV plugs. 110 with a converter would take the better part of a day to charge. (I did it exactly once).

Except for Nissan's battery replacement program, the Leaf was a brilliant car. It was designed ground up as an EV rather than adapting an ICE glider as the Honda Fit EV did. If I could have replaced the battery on the Leaf with a better higher capacity battery, I'd have done that. Still, I'm never fucking ever getting an ICE again.

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the mantra of economics is that "people tend to do those things that they perceive to be in their best interest".  I think the almighty dollar will speak.  The costs of "Green" energy are falling at the moment.  It is cheaper in many areas to generate with solar vs coal.  I think it will be in peoples best interest when they perceive that they are paying less for some solutions that are aimed to approach some of the problems we are now dealing with.  

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6 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think you're confusing bemusement w/fear - but, that's OK. 

Right wingers are "bemused" by Sanders, Stein, and Johnson. They make a few jokes at their expense but otherwise ignore them.

The last time there was this much right-wing attention paid to a single woman in the Democratic caucus, her name was Hilary and the right-wingers were afraid of her (though outside their need for a team win, that didn't make much sense). 

I think you're confusing your personal reaction with that of the wider population of right-wing politics - but, that's OK. ;) 

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3 hours ago, Laker said:

the mantra of economics is that "people tend to do those things that they perceive to be in their best interest".  I think the almighty dollar will speak.  The costs of "Green" energy are falling at the moment.  It is cheaper in many areas to generate with solar vs coal.  I think it will be in peoples best interest when they perceive that they are paying less for some solutions that are aimed to approach some of the problems we are now dealing with.  

Kentucky Coal Museum Goes Solar   www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/science/...  

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3 hours ago, Laker said:

the mantra of economics is that "people tend to do those things that they perceive to be in their best interest".  I think the almighty dollar will speak.  The costs of "Green" energy are falling at the moment.  It is cheaper in many areas to generate with solar vs coal.  I think it will be in peoples best interest when they perceive that they are paying less for some solutions that are aimed to approach some of the problems we are now dealing with.  

All the more important to start monetizing the cost of climate change

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13 hours ago, d'ranger said:

I don't think battery will totally replace IC for sometime but for commuters it is making more sense

Sold the Big White Truck yesterday.

This was possible because my wife's new car will tow all our boats.

I launch little boats with my golf cart and love lots of things about it compared to its gas-powered predecessor.

Haven't heard of an electric vehicle with a 5,000 lb tow rating. Do they exist yet?

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

Likely bigger than what you're looking for.  But, yes.

Cool looking, but...

Quote

the presentation ended without any information on just how much the truck will cost, where it will be built, and when it will officially go on sale. Musk also briefly showed an image of a heavy-duty pickup truck version the company has been considering, but no further details were given on that.

I want a Tesla Hickup if they make one but will be curious about that cost thing.

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4 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

tesla claims the model-x will tow 4980lbs with the tow package. the new benz & audi suvs are rated at ~4000lbs.

newer, not yet is https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a25299722/2021-rivian-r1t-electric-pickup-truck-photos-info/

Quote

Deliveries of the R1T will begin in the U.S. in late 2020, we expect as a 2021 model. The R1T will start at $69,000 plus destination charge, which can be reduced by the $7500 federal tax credit—but the biggest-battery, highest-spec versions will enter production first. Pre-orders are now open with a refundable deposit of $1000. Like Tesla, Rivian will be selling its vehicles directly to the consumer, and there also will be storefronts for potential customers to see the cars in person and place orders. A service system will be in place by the time the R1T goes on sale, and Rivian says that it will provide a pickup and delivery concierge service. A spokesperson told C/D that Rivian isn't just about selling assets and vehicles; the company wants to "transcend ownership" and sell experiences.

I'd like to experience paying a bit less but that's not a crazy price for a hickup.

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49 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

tesla claims the model-x will tow 4980lbs with the tow package. the new benz & audi suvs are rated at ~4000lbs. newer, not yet is https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a25299722/2021-rivian-r1t-electric-pickup-truck-photos-info/

clearly whats important in life to dogballs are remembering posts of enemys on a webboard and bumping them relentlessly in a perpetual self-own he's too stupid to see.

 

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5 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Well I know this must come as a YUGE surprise but this is not AOC and in fact https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ocasio-cortez-fake-photo/

You don't have to be a gullible moron to be a Trump supporter but it sure helps.

You put more time into than me...me win...love it when the Libgressives have bust out snopes

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10 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

You put more time into than me...me win...love it when the Libgressives have bust out snopes

so, did you post something fake on purpose or just swallowing the koolaid?  damn those pesky factcheckers eh? And is this Tarzan speak? Tonto?

(gotta go with swilling the koolaid dude)

edit: If you were an adult you would apologize for posting bullshit........ rather than being proud of baiting Libgressives - I know you don't coin that yourself - which Nutter do you listen to or watch?  Infowars?

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40 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:
47 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Well I know this must come as a YUGE surprise but this is not AOC and in fact https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ocasio-cortez-fake-photo/

You don't have to be a gullible moron to be a Trump supporter but it sure helps.

You put more time into than me...me win...love it when the Libgressives have bust out snopes

So, you post a pic that is (as I suspected) ANOTHER bullshit attack on a Congresswoman you seem to fear.  You make it seem like it was a successful troll.

Which is it - you were gullible and fell for the bullshit, or you are a troll?

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

so, did you post something fake on purpose or just swallowing the koolaid?  damn those pesky factcheckers eh? And is this Tarzan speak? Tonto?

(gotta go with swilling the koolaid dude)

edit: If you were an adult you would apologize for posting bullshit........ rather than being proud of baiting Libgressives - I know you don't coin that yourself - which Nutter do you listen to or watch?  Infowars?

What does snopes have to say about Russian Collusion ?....and all the other ludicrous baseless speculations 

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4 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:
1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

Which is it - you were gullible and fell for the bullshit, or you are a troll?

What does snopes have to say about Russian Collusion ?....and all the other ludicrous baseless speculations 

It doesn't. Now, are you a gutless troll or ignorant moron? We're still waiting for your answer.

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49 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

OK, he's going for a twofer.

Apparently. A hint for the moron - Aussies are not triggered by yanks throwing shade at Democratic women. We kind of expect it and, although distasteful, it's not an indictment of us, our country, or any of our political parties. :rolleyes: 

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52 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Dz3tH_8WsAAx3jG.jpg.cf.jpgNo photo shop on this billboard in Times Square

And your point is what exactly? Political billboards paid for by political organisations are nothing new.

Now, lets hear some more about how the left is the one keeping her in the spotlight and how paid political attack advertising means the right are merely bemused. That's actually funny when you try saying it with a straight face. :lol: 

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17 hours ago, Term Limits! said:

The more I see of her, the more I like her.

MY favorite part of this tweet is how she smacks down the idea that a billboard in Times Square is for anyone but tourists and the press

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The fascination by the Right with AOC is predictable - never mind that the Amazon HQ was to be located not in her district. So, she must be the most powerful female 29 year old freshman Congressman, like ever.

Note: if I were the GOP PR guy I would do everything possible to divert attention from the GOP.  as Eva Dent

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On 2/20/2019 at 10:59 AM, SailBlueH2O said:

You put more time into than me...me win...love it when the Libgressives have bust out snopes

OK, so this is a good illustration of why we cannot treat the Reichistas with any respect . . 

They abjure honesty and fairness, and have only contempt for the truth.  

They have nothing at all in common with the old style cloth coat GOPPERS 

Only an actual Nazi would actually brag about his vicious lies. 

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31 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

OK, so this is a good illustration of why we cannot treat the Libgressives with any respect . . 

They abjure honesty and fairness, and have only contempt for the truth.  

They have nothing at all in common with the old style blue collar  democrats 

Only an actual Nazi would actually brag about his vicious lies.....welcome to 2019 devolving democrat party

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/heres-the-full-1985-interview-where-bernie-sanders-praised-castro-slammed-reagan-and-more/

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Just now, Dog said:

You know that the HQ proposed site was not in her district and she had zip to do with the NYC decision? You also realize that she is probably the most famous freshman congressman ever is because of the obsession from the RW media? You can't get that kind of publicity from Amazon Prime.

Most entertaining.

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12 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

You know that the HQ proposed site was not in her district and she had zip to do with the NYC decision? You also realize that she is probably the most famous freshman congressman ever is because of the obsession from the RW media? You can't get that kind of publicity from Amazon Prime.

Most entertaining.

Well Amazon cited opposition from state and local politicians in its decision  and she was certainly active in that effort and celebrated their victory despite being a customer.

 

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1 hour ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Anyone buying into the Bernie/AOC/Libgressive bait is being duped...

You share a bullshit post and act like others are being duped.

That site is a parody site and you got suckered.  

Or, you knew it was bullshit and shared it, anyway.  That would put you in Happy Jack territory for being a disingenuous troll.

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2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

What is so weird is - outside of PA you appear quite normal.

I've noticed that too.

Complete monster raving loonie here and sane & interesting in the boat threads.

Is there a medical term for that?

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I've noticed that too.

Complete monster raving loonie here and sane & interesting in the boat threads.

Is there a medical term for that?

PA is about as authentic as World Wrestling Federation :)  Or, as my wife puts it, "Soap Opera for Dudes".  

it's not a doll, it's an ACTION FIGURE!

 

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10 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I've noticed that too.

Complete monster raving loonie here and sane & interesting in the boat threads.

Is there a medical term for that?

It is weird. It's like he checks his brain at the door.

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5 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Would you be upset if your answers were cut off? I would be. But it makes for good fake news.

Thanks for posting because it shows you don’t consider her answers helpful to understanding her point of view.

Well when the response rambles ever further from the question...yes the interviewer should pull on the choker collar

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6 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Well when the response rambles ever further from the question...yes the interviewer should pull on the choker collar

That is deliberately misstating what the video clip shows. He asks a question, she starts to answer, and the clip cuts back to the interviewer, skipping her answer entirely.

Why state falsehoods in order to make your point? It renders your argument worthless.

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3 hours ago, phillysailor said:

That is deliberately misstating what the video clip shows. He asks a question, she starts to answer, and the clip cuts back to the interviewer, skipping her answer entirely.

Why state falsehoods in order to make your point? It renders your argument worthless.

Suppose she asks the questions

 

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2 hours ago, Laker said:

Is it her concepts or her, herself that you have an issue with?  If it were said by someone else would it be more relrvant.?  These are not things that have not been said before by others.

Her green new deal is stupid.  And anyone that supports it is also stupid.

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2 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Or is convinced that global warming is more of a threat than illegal immigration 

Her green new deal is stupid.  Eliminating nuclear power and fossil fuel is stupid.  No other way around it.

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12 minutes ago, jzk said:

Her green new deal is stupid.  Eliminating nuclear power and fossil fuel is stupid.  No other way around it.

Perhaps, but compared to Trumps stupid wall, at least Ocasio’s plan has the potential to create new fields of industry, increase efficiency standards and reduce energy expenditures dramatically.

Her proposal would stabilize the middle and lower class, thus leading to an economic boom not witnessed since America Was Great. Those willing to work would be assured of a living wage, so our homeless problems would be vastly reduced and we’d greatly reduce the numbers of people on welfare/public assistance programs.

Our electrical grid would be digitized, making our country safer and more resistant to natural disasters. Our infrastructure would be improved, and not crumbling despite all of Trumps “infrastructure weeks.”

Oh, and there would be reduced pollution, leading to cleaner lakes, streams and air. This would not only decrease health expenditures dramatically for a certain segment of our population it could mitigate one of the most devastating natural disasters in the making.

Climate change is happening, and if we can save our coastal cities with their high population densities, critical infrastructure and economic activity then the short term investment might lead to incalculable reduction of loss.

But your eyes glazed over at “Trumps stupid wall.” The GOP has proven, time & again, that it wants stupid leaders like GWB, and Ronny Reagan and Donny Trump and Dan “Potatoe” Quayle. Well, stupid is as stupid does, and you guys have to declare an Emergency to build a frickin wall. You don’t have the chops to save the country trillions of dollars and from a national security nightmare.

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