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Couldn't help myself.... 125, Comanche, VO70, IMOCA60, Class40, Mini

I can't believe you are all talking about Skorpios correcting out.!  They have no farkin intention to correct out.! Their "ONLY" intention is to win line honors and break records. Correcting out is fo

Haven't watched yet, but should be some interesting info in the vid  

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23 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

Any news or photos of sea trials. Has it even got wet yet?

Splash and sea-trials completed. Full race crew training underway now - pretty watertight so far in terms of news and photos. I imagine Swan have got it tied up for an official 'release' at some point so everyone is on non-disclosure until then - maybe once this training session is complete and they have a load of footage..?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Some pics up on the KZ furler Instagram page - plenty of headsail combos on this thing plus a hefty loadcell on a 45T SWL furler for the J2....

CS125 Furlers KZ 1.JPG

CS125 Furlers KZ 2.JPG

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On 6/9/2021 at 11:15 PM, The Weatherman said:

Also Comanche listed as entrant. Let’s see...

 

Bout time she got her lovely fat arse on the track. Its been a long time ....  :wub:

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Shit load of freeboard for a race boat. Dog house also looks massively high. Lots of weight that could have been saved. Looks like Juan just scaled up the VO70 drawings and did nothing else!!!

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10 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

Shit load of freeboard for a race boat. Dog house also looks massively high. Lots of weight that could have been saved. Looks like Juan just scaled up the VO70 drawings and did nothing else!!!

Is this one like Leopard, e.g. it's designed to be converted to a fast cruising boat later in life? Would explain going for max headroom down below...

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Snowden,

noted. But this looks like a lot more freeboard than you would need later in life. Looking at the crew on deck, I bet they struggle to touch the deck when standing below, even jump up and touch it! And the doghouse would likely be removed and replaced with a refit. That alone looks very tall.

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I think its hard to tell proportions from this photo, the boat is heeled over enough to expose a fair amount of one of the twin rudders, and flares in, so there is probably less room down below in the aft end than you think. Maybe the "owners cabin" goes in the bow... Plus zooming in the "dog house" looks around the same proportions as commanches

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On 8/1/2020 at 7:19 AM, Alaris said:

It’s not like someone is going to show up with a 250-footer.

<_<

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15 hours ago, JonRowe said:

I think its hard to tell proportions from this photo, the boat is heeled over enough to expose a fair amount of one of the twin rudders, and flares in, so there is probably less room down below in the aft end than you think. Maybe the "owners cabin" goes in the bow... Plus zooming in the "dog house" looks around the same proportions as commanches

In the first photo she's head to wind, and the freeboard still looks huge for a 125'er.... the whole concept seems pretty irrelevant to me anyhow, but I guess I'll never be able to grasp the mindset of uber-rich owners, so I guess my opinion (and that of anyone[?] here) isn't worth the paper its written on.

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Those quilted furler covers are pretty gucci! 

Having drawn some yellow lines on a couple of side by side images of both Comanche and Skorpios... the Big C is carrying ~7ft of freeboard at the bow, whilst the even Bigger S is carrying ~11-12ft. 

If Big C was scaled at 1.25x then it would theoretically carry ~9ft of freeboard, so Skorpios is definitely carrying some deck height! 

 

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1 hour ago, point said:

Having drawn some yellow lines on a couple of side by side images of both Comanche and Skorpios... the Big C is carrying ~7ft of freeboard at the bow, whilst the even Bigger S is carrying ~11-12ft

Closer to 10ft so not much more than a scaled Comanche - still pretty sizeable.

20 hours ago, Chimp too said:

And the doghouse would likely be removed and replaced with a refit. That alone looks very tall.

AFAIK coach roof is removeable depending on conditions/set-up. 

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Point,

Nicely done. You would normally expect freeboard to proportionally reduce as LOA increases. Doesn't seem to be the case with Scorpios as I thought. Not pretty.

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5 hours ago, Chimp too said:

Point,

Nicely done. You would normally expect freeboard to proportionally reduce as LOA increases. Doesn't seem to be the case with Scorpios as I thought. Not pretty.

Doesn't it have a removable interior or some other cruising accommodations?  Owner could've bought a tri if he really wanted to go fast without compromise.

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1 hour ago, eastern motors said:

Doesn't it have a removable interior or some other cruising accommodations?  Owner could've bought a tri if he really wanted to go fast without compromise.

Accommodation doesn’t need excessive freeboard. Anything over 2m in a sailing yacht is a bit much even for a 125footer

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7 hours ago, eastern motors said:

Doesn't it have a removable interior or some other cruising accommodations?  Owner could've bought a tri if he really wanted to go fast without compromise.

There was a fantastic blog post on some yacht designers' page that I can't seem to recall at the moment (maybe owen clarke?)...

Their point was, mainly due to draft limitations?, that it made NO sense to try and make a "fast" monohull larger than ~60ft. You'd be building a multi for anything larger.

Although they did conclude, again based on my fantastic memory... that someone would build a large monohull because, well, that's where tradition, "prestige?, and a nice showcase of wealth is.

Either way the design is uninspiring for sure. But, it's a "safe" design.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I still think it looks "in proportion" for its size personally, some interesting wrinkles in those sails, tension issues? Its not just the main that furling storm / genoa stay sail has them too.

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3 hours ago, JonRowe said:

I still think it looks "in proportion" for its size personally, some interesting wrinkles in those sails, tension issues? Its not just the main that furling storm / genoa stay sail has them too.

tension issues plug getting the rig fully dialed in, it's a process with rigs with big. also a brand new boat so they don't have any established baselines for that rig or those sails. lot of know nothing shit talkers in this thread. 

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4 hours ago, jackolantern said:

This thing is a beast and is going to lead a new generation of Mega Maxis racing offshore for the biggest events and records. 

I kind of doubt it.  Multis are much much faster and cheaper.  The new M101 tri is going to be less than half the cost of this.  In what conditions could this beat a MOD70?  The draft required  is a problem and the keel has to be canting or the boat is a dog.  So canting and lifting keel?

 

What do they need that many crew for?  All powered winches with sails on furlers.

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3 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

tension issues plug getting the rig fully dialed in, it's a process with rigs with big. also a brand new boat so they don't have any established baselines for that rig or those sails. lot of know nothing shit talkers in this thread. 

Fair. I hadn't considered they would be taking press photos before getting the rig dialled in.

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1 hour ago, eastern motors said:

What do they need that many crew for?  All powered winches with sails on furlers.

They probably need at least 18 people just to get the main and other sails on and off the boat. Comanche had the same issues.

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15 hours ago, JonRowe said:

some interesting wrinkles in those sails, tension issues?

Meh that just looks like it needs stiffer battens on those lower sections, cheap solve on this boat. What does a batten run on a 125 fter, as much as my cheap Ducati? Psh chump change for these money bags. 

Is this thing scheduled to race anytime soon?

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After watching the video above you'd think this thing debugged will murder Rambler. Foil assist and canting keel etc. Someone said the freeboard was high, I disagree as Freeboard is also a function of length, this thing is 37 Feet bigger than Rambler.! Also the interior is all Carbon race boat style not like a Leopard. (From the video above thats all I can see?)  

P.S. On the Fastnet site there is no rating for this boat yet? Rambler is 1.863 surely this thing will be over 2.0 something?

rfr21_entries_050721.pdf

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14 Knots upwind.! The boat is quite narrow for her size because of the C-Foils she doesn't need the beam of Comanche. So she should do well in the lighter conditions where she will create her own apparent wind once moving without dragging the beam around. She is closer to Alfa Romeo in beam. In heavier breezes and damaging wave states Rambler might be better as we know these bigger boats are hard to slow down? Interesting to see how it plays out in the Fastnet which should offer a bit of everything.

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53 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Someone said the freeboard was high, I disagree as Freeboard is also a function of length, this thing is 37 Feet bigger than Rambler.! Also the interior is all Carbon race boat style not like a Leopard. (From the video above thats all I can see?)  

Freeboard is about 9ft which, whilst undeniably fucking huge, is pretty much to scale relative to Ramblers. And yes the interior is bare, they've gone 'full Volvo'. 

 

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8 hours ago, r.finn said:

"Club"?  What design brief is this fulfilling?

Apparently they wanted at first to build "a very fast super yacht for inshore racing, but as we were developing the project, it changed. We all realised this yacht was meant to be a record-breaking machine. And so here we are… and the boat has been developed to be successful in offshore racing and intends to beat all the monohull records around the world". Odd to think that you would want to build a yacht of this size purely for inshore racing. 

It sounds like they are planning a serries of them too according to the link below. 

Superyacht Times

 

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The real test would be 1-on-1 against Comanche  ;-)

(though Comanche seems somewhat off the radar these days)

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5 hours ago, vokstar said:

It sounds like they are planning a serries of them too according to the link below. 

I think this is some 'positive projection' (aka wishful thinking) from Swan.

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4 hours ago, ttc546 said:

The real test would be 1-on-1 against Comanche  ;-)

(though Comanche seems somewhat off the radar these days)

You can't beat waterline length most of the time. In Comanche we have beam and in this thing we have C Foils for stability. If the foils are a significant advantage over beam then this thing should have the legs over Comanche. You'd be worried if it didn't given the size of this and advantage of foils albeit not designed to make it fly. 

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7 hours ago, vokstar said:

Apparently they wanted at first to build "a very fast super yacht for inshore racing, but as we were developing the project, it changed. We all realised this yacht was meant to be a record-breaking machine. And so here we are… and the boat has been developed to be successful in offshore racing and intends to beat all the monohull records around the world". Odd to think that you would want to build a yacht of this size purely for inshore racing. 

It sounds like they are planning a serries of them too according to the link below. 

Superyacht Times

 

The Club is like the ClubSwan 36 only in this case it's 125 feet. At this length I don't think they will get a sizeable CLUB LOL. 

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19 hours ago, eastern motors said:

I kind of doubt it.  Multis are much much faster and cheaper.  The new M101 tri is going to be less than half the cost of this.  In what conditions could this beat a MOD70?  The draft required  is a problem and the keel has to be canting or the boat is a dog.  So canting and lifting keel?

 

What do they need that many crew for?  All powered winches with sails on furlers.

The argument 4 years ago was you could built an ultime trimaran for half the cost of a 100 super maxi but things move quickly regarding costs on things like electronics, foils and controls. It wouldn’t surprise me if the cost difference is closer than you think with M101

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12 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

I wonder what chances there are that the CYCA will ever let it enter the Sydney to Hobart. I'm guessing SFA.

lay down misere for line ,

 

handicap ...ha fokin ha .

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20 hours ago, eastern motors said:

I kind of doubt it.  Multis are much much faster and cheaper.  The new M101 tri is going to be less than half the cost of this.  In what conditions could this beat a MOD70?

 

17 minutes ago, JL92S said:

The argument 4 years ago was you could built an ultime trimaran for half the cost of a 100 super maxi but things move quickly regarding costs on things like electronics, foils and controls. It wouldn’t surprise me if the cost difference is closer than you think with M101

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of giant trimarans, but they are out and out racing machines. This is not, its a super yacht, it'll get some records, but can also do those med regattas where you can steer and take your guests along, throw some cushions around the cockpit you can even sit down next to the dock! :lol:;)

 

9 minutes ago, Mid said:

wots with the leeward whisker pole ?

Reaching strut to sheet out the headsails.

 

 

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We have seen how fast and powerful Comanche is in the conditions it was designed for. How quickly it did a horizon job on every other 100ft maxi after cracking sheets out of Sydney heads. 
 

Rambler is a lot faster now then the last time it raced Comanche. And it wasn’t too far off the pace back then. 
 

It’d be good to get all three together. All the other 100ft maxis are now dinosaurs. 

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On 7/6/2021 at 6:30 PM, eastern motors said:

I kind of doubt it.  Multis are much much faster and cheaper.  The new M101 tri is going to be less than half the cost of this.  In what conditions could this beat a MOD70?  The draft required  is a problem and the keel has to be canting or the boat is a dog.  So canting and lifting keel?

 

What do they need that many crew for?  All powered winches with sails on furlers.

What would really help the MOD70 fleet gain some traction is some sort of managed fleet with a circuit and one-design racing with some of the best multi sailors in the world. 

With that sort of exposure and organization they’ll soon become popular and fleet numbers will grow so that nobody would consider building monohulls within ten years of such a programme. 

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10 hours ago, Sugarscoop said:

We have seen how fast and powerful Comanche is in the conditions it was designed for. How quickly it did a horizon job on every other 100ft maxi after cracking sheets out of Sydney heads. 
 

Rambler is a lot faster now then the last time it raced Comanche. And it wasn’t too far off the pace back then. 
 

It’d be good to get all three together. All the other 100ft maxis are now dinosaurs. 

Yeah Rambler got the full Turbo treatment and poor old Scallywag was a victim of being beaten by an 88 footer in the Fastnet. Scallywag had the legs in the lighter conditions but when it got rough Rambler took over. 

 

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I would love to hate this thing,  but I just can't bring myself to do so.

But where did the get all of those tiny people to sit on the side?

 

Tubby

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14 hours ago, terrafirma said:

You can't beat waterline length most of the time. In Comanche we have beam and in this thing we have C Foils for stability. If the foils are a significant advantage over beam then this thing should have the legs over Comanche. You'd be worried if it didn't given the size of this and advantage of foils albeit not designed to make it fly. 

Don't forget that this Club Swan is all powered, while Comanche had the option to be human power only.  

I think both are fantastic.  I wish them well.

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18 hours ago, NZK said:

I think this is some 'positive projection' (aka wishful thinking) from Swan.

I think you are bang on there, would be fun to see 3+ of them though racing.

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9 hours ago, Terrorvision said:

What would really help the MOD70 fleet gain some traction is some sort of managed fleet with a circuit and one-design racing with some of the best multi sailors in the world. 

With that sort of exposure and organization they’ll soon become popular and fleet numbers will grow so that nobody would consider building monohulls within ten years of such a programme. 

Isn't that what they were originally built for? They came out of the ashes of the ORMA class to try to create a one design circuit and there wasn't the sponsors around to make it work for very long so thats why there aren't any new ones, just turbo'd versions of the old ones?

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23 hours ago, terrafirma said:

You can't beat waterline length most of the time. In Comanche we have beam and in this thing we have C Foils for stability. If the foils are a significant advantage over beam then this thing should have the legs over Comanche. You'd be worried if it didn't given the size of this and advantage of foils albeit not designed to make it fly. 

I am sceptical the C-foils will add any stability. I would rather assume the opposite since their vertical force is created towards the tip which moves towards the centerplane the further the foil is deployed.

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18 minutes ago, neuronz said:

I am sceptical the C-foils will add any stability. I would rather assume the opposite since their vertical force is created towards the tip which moves towards the centerplane the further the foil is deployed.

AFAIK the c-foils don't offer much for stability and performance wise are only really beneficial on reaching angles which is at least a point of sail this 125 is expected to encounter, unlike the 36s which race w/l courses. None of the 36s seem to think the foil sets their world on fire but the 125 was apparently the genesis of the C-foil concept (Swan then trickled it down in the 36 which launched first) so hopefully it will be more efficient on this thing. 

It does look plenty powerful in those videos - looking forward to seeing it going full gas in the Fastnet, I imagine a down-wind leg home from the rock would be a hell of a ride...

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19 hours ago, Terrorvision said:

What would really help the MOD70 fleet gain some traction is some sort of managed fleet with a circuit and one-design racing with some of the best multi sailors in the world. 

 

Apparently, that doesn't appeal to owners at that level. 

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3 hours ago, spankoka said:

Apparently, that doesn't appeal to owners at that level. 

And related, and contrary to dire predictions of a few years ago, the Ultime fleet seems to be getting healthier and healthier. It does appear there will be more Ultimes for the Fastnet than maxi monohulls. 

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Ultims and MOD70s are solving for different things. Worth watching Peter Cunningham's video on PowerPlay but the thrust of what he was saying is that the MOD70 is pretty much the fastest boat that a rich guy can buy and sometimes drive himself. I think an Ultim is basically out of reach for any "weekend" sailor.

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13 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Isn't that what they were originally built for? They came out of the ashes of the ORMA class to try to create a one design circuit and there wasn't the sponsors around to make it work for very long so thats why there aren't any new ones, just turbo'd versions of the old ones?

I should have used the sarcasm font. 

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3 hours ago, Snowden said:

Ultims and MOD70s are solving for different things. Worth watching Peter Cunningham's video on PowerPlay but the thrust of what he was saying is that the MOD70 is pretty much the fastest boat that a rich guy can buy and sometimes drive himself. I think an Ultim is basically out of reach for any "weekend" sailor.

This rich guy is probably burning $20k/day on crew for a boat he can drive himself.

For the Skorpios budget you could get a tri with no current comparable boats.  Any budget guesses?  I think it's over $30mm.  

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14 hours ago, neuronz said:

I am sceptical the C-foils will add any stability. I would rather assume the opposite since their vertical force is created towards the tip which moves towards the centerplane the further the foil is deployed.

They seem to be working fine here. You need to remember we are talking in comparison to say Comanche's daggerboards. 

 

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Juan K back in 2015 wrote an article does length matter? http://www.juanyachtdesign.com/does_length_matter.html

In this same article, albeit 6 years ago he writes quote "This absolute physical limit, if analysed extensively, would come up not far from the IMA's current 30.5m length limit and 7.2m draft limit. The original reasoning or intention of these parameters might have not been this one, but the IMA's outcome is almost spot on! And this is the underlying concept of our latest Maxi design K99 ... right at this limit. (Note that for multihulls this reasoning does not apply because they don't rely on draft for RM). Therefore, I would propose that anybody building a monohull longer than around 100ft is no longer looking for pure performance. If you are, then build a multihull instead." 

Interesting he says anybody building a mono longer than 100ft is no longer looking for pure performance, otherwise they should build a Multi.! Well here we are with a 125FT Mono he has designed.....

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6 hours ago, terrafirma said:

They seem to be working fine here. You need to remember we are talking in comparison to say Comanche's daggerboards. 

 

In this video JuanK explains how the C-boards in the CS36 are mostly used for upwind sailing. Skimming seems to be possible on some reaching angles, though I would expect this to be rather 2-sail reaching at relatively high heel angles.

Downwind the boards are actually retracted which minimizes drag as only the thin keel blade is left in the water.

 

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Juan K back in 2015 wrote an article does length matter? http://www.juanyachtdesign.com/does_length_matter.html

In this same article, albeit 6 years ago he writes quote "This absolute physical limit, if analysed extensively, would come up not far from the IMA's current 30.5m length limit and 7.2m draft limit. The original reasoning or intention of these parameters might have not been this one, but the IMA's outcome is almost spot on! And this is the underlying concept of our latest Maxi design K99 ... right at this limit. (Note that for multihulls this reasoning does not apply because they don't rely on draft for RM). Therefore, I would propose that anybody building a monohull longer than around 100ft is no longer looking for pure performance. If you are, then build a multihull instead." 

Interesting he says anybody building a mono longer than 100ft is no longer looking for pure performance, otherwise they should build a Multi.! Well here we are with a 125FT Mono he has designed.....

A pay check is a pay check

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Juan K back in 2015 wrote an article does length matter? http://www.juanyachtdesign.com/does_length_matter.html

In this same article, albeit 6 years ago he writes quote "This absolute physical limit, if analysed extensively, would come up not far from the IMA's current 30.5m length limit and 7.2m draft limit. The original reasoning or intention of these parameters might have not been this one, but the IMA's outcome is almost spot on! And this is the underlying concept of our latest Maxi design K99 ... right at this limit. (Note that for multihulls this reasoning does not apply because they don't rely on draft for RM). Therefore, I would propose that anybody building a monohull longer than around 100ft is no longer looking for pure performance. If you are, then build a multihull instead." 

Interesting he says anybody building a mono longer than 100ft is no longer looking for pure performance, otherwise they should build a Multi.! Well here we are with a 125FT Mono he has designed.....

It would be interesting to see if it is the development and increasing commonality of foils since he said that in 2015 that have meant he sees an elasticity in the 100ft-to-performance ratio.
Or that he likes to get paid.....!

 

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2 minutes ago, Terrorvision said:

It would be interesting to see if it is the development and increasing commonality of foils since he said that in 2015 that have meant he sees an elasticity in the 100ft-to-performance ratio.
Or that he likes to get paid.....!

 

The story I've heard regarding these Club Swan c-foils is that part of the brief with the 125 was for foils but nothing that 'pierced' or interrupted the deck. I guess for whatever reason the DSS system was a no-go so the Juan K office came up with this C-foil which they consequently trickled into the 36 and have apparently sacked off from the new 80 after one of the prospective teams did their own cfd analysis and determined it was a waste of time and money...

C-foils aside this thing looks like an utter beast and there are undoubtedly some very cool details that will slowly see the light of day - hopefully conditions in the Fastnet will allow it to light up and put on a show.

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3 hours ago, neuronz said:

In this video JuanK explains how the C-boards in the CS36 are mostly used for upwind sailing. Skimming seems to be possible on some reaching angles, though I would expect this to be rather 2-sail reaching at relatively high heel angles.

Downwind the boards are actually retracted which minimizes drag as only the thin keel blade is left in the water.

 

Yes upwind and reaching. He mentions at higher speeds downwind too.  He makes sense though with regards to the ease of use in using the foils for a normal amateur crew etc. 

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Dmitry Rybolovlev owns all the must-have items for the super-wealthy.

There’s the Manhattan penthouse that he bought for his daughter, the European soccer club, the expensive artworks and, of course, several yachts. 

But in this latest gilded age, there’s always room for more. In this case, the Russian billionaire has just taken delivery of the Skorpios, a 43-meter (140-foot) racing yacht, which cost $20 million and took four years to build, a person familiar with the matter said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-02/feuding-billionaire-adds-20-million-yacht-to-luxury-toy-list

 

 

-1x-1.jpg

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1 hour ago, Autonomous said:

If that boaty was mine I'd just happen to show up at Sydney and dust the whole fleet.

 

 

been done .

2007.jpg.a5625d4b749817d1ae6b55123cc8d86a.jpg

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4 hours ago, Autonomous said:

What's it rate?

No rating listed yet but here are Comanche and Rambler so you can imagine this thing being well over 2

USA 12358 Comanche CK C 1.984 E

USA 25555 Rambler 88 CK C 1.829 E

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On 7/9/2021 at 12:05 PM, NZK said:

The story I've heard regarding these Club Swan c-foils is that part of the brief with the 125 was for foils but nothing that 'pierced' or interrupted the deck. I guess for whatever reason the DSS system was a no-go so the Juan K office came up with this C-foil which they consequently trickled into the 36 and have apparently sacked off from the new 80 after one of the prospective teams did their own cfd analysis and determined it was a waste of time and money...

C-foils aside this thing looks like an utter beast and there are undoubtedly some very cool details that will slowly see the light of day - hopefully conditions in the Fastnet will allow it to light up and put on a show.

The Juanker got burnt with Rambler on trying DSS which was outside the patent parameters to avoid paying a tiny fee:)  As as result they didn't work out so got binned.   Sometimes he's smart, other times a fuckwit.

And a big dose of the Not Invented Here syndrome is par for the course with him:D   There was a comparative piece from Clay Oliver in Seahorse on foil types a while back, and C-foils were bottom of the pack.

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1 hour ago, GBH said:

The Juanker got burnt with Rambler on trying DSS which was outside the patent parameters to avoid paying a tiny fee:)  As as result they didn't work out so got binned.   Sometimes he's smart, other times a fuckwit.

And a big dose of the Not Invented Here syndrome is par for the course with him:D   There was a comparative piece from Clay Oliver in Seahorse on foil types a while back, and C-foils were bottom of the pack.

Yeah will be interesting to see what the foils achieve in reality for this boat? Problem is the foils have to be easy to use and practical on this type of boat so not sure what other options there are? You would have thought after all these years and mistakes the guy would have developed some wisdom. He has had some successes and I personally hope this one is. The current Rambler is a great boat I believe and having it's share of success so congrats to George David who I think deserves the success. 

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11 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Dmitry Rybolovlev owns all the must-have items for the super-wealthy.

There’s the Manhattan penthouse that he bought for his daughter, the European soccer club, the expensive artworks and, of course, several yachts. 

But in this latest gilded age, there’s always room for more. In this case, the Russian billionaire has just taken delivery of the Skorpios, a 43-meter (140-foot) racing yacht, which cost $20 million and took four years to build, a person familiar with the matter said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-02/feuding-billionaire-adds-20-million-yacht-to-luxury-toy-list

 

 

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I'm calling total bullshit on that price tag. the rig alone for a boat this size is easily $3-4mil, a full inventory of sails another $3-4mil, hell looking at the promo shot there's over $1mil in deck hardware alone on that boat. so $20mil for the the full build? no fucking way. 

 

even if the Swan swallowed much or or even all the the design costs, which for a boat like this is immense there's no way that build was under $20mil. 

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11 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

I'm calling total bullshit on that price tag. the rig alone for a boat this size is easily $3-4mil, a full inventory of sails another $3-4mil, hell looking at the promo shot there's over $1mil in deck hardware alone on that boat. so $20mil for the the full build? no fucking way. 

 

even if the Swan swallowed much or or even all the the design costs, which for a boat like this is immense there's no way that build was under $20mil. 

Yeah I thought Comanche was $25 Million but I can't be sure? So this thing is 25 feet bigger and has C Foils. One would have thought mid 30's.?

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21 hours ago, GBH said:

The Juanker got burnt with Rambler on trying DSS which was outside the patent parameters to avoid paying a tiny fee:)  As as result they didn't work out so got binned.   Sometimes he's smart, other times a fuckwit.

And a big dose of the Not Invented Here syndrome is par for the course with him:D   There was a comparative piece from Clay Oliver in Seahorse on foil types a while back, and C-foils were bottom of the pack.

I understand that on Rambler they fitted the DSS foil too high up the topsides to avoid the patent details. As a result, it didn’t work. Probably why the patent didn’t cover that option. Remember, Juan was the guy who said a non-foiling AC72 would win over a foiler. I suspect the trim tab on the keel fin does a lot more than the c foil.

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No so, was too short by a few mm for the lower limit in the patent, so not surprising it didn't work out against the rating cost.  Don't think he ever wanted to do it and it's probably the best boat he's ever done as it is.  C-foil was dumb when you look at the physics, and be interesting to know what the additional cost $$$ and Kgs on the 36's is to achieve about stuff all!

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10 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Yeah I thought Comanche was $25 Million but I can't be sure? So this thing is 25 feet bigger and has C Foils. One would have thought mid 30's.?

 

what I understand from a colleague who was involved in the project, when Comanche rolled out of the shed at hodgdon that was about $25mil in. by the time  you add in the rig, and the sail inventory you're north of $30mil.  this boat is 25 ft longer has the added complexity of a removable cruising interior and the associated systems that go along with it as well as the added cost of this being a fully hydraulic boat where comanche is a manual boat., the C-foil system where comanche just had conventional daggerboards. sail away cot of this boat, $40mil is probably right in the ballpark. 

 

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On 7/9/2021 at 5:11 AM, terrafirma said:

for a normal amateur crew

Aside from the very attractive guest or 2, I highly doubt there are many normal amateur crew racing CS36's.  No one is racing these boats at the local club.

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11 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Aside from the very attractive guest or 2, I highly doubt there are many normal amateur crew racing CS36's.  No one is racing these boats at the local club.

My point is the foils need to be practical unlike the foils on an Imoca 60 which are not. Perhaps amateur is the wrong word however that's the take on it. 

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