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Looks like Apivia and the other IMOCAs that went South early are doing nicely against Rambler and Skorpios.  Skorpios ahead of Apivia anyway, but not by all that much, and I think Apivia will cross Rambler if Rambler tacks.

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Couldn't help myself.... 125, Comanche, VO70, IMOCA60, Class40, Mini

I can't believe you are all talking about Skorpios correcting out.!  They have no farkin intention to correct out.! Their "ONLY" intention is to win line honors and break records. Correcting out is fo

In the latest edition of Seahorse there’s an article about the CS125 and they go into a bit more detail about the boat. The Cfoil was chosen because as NZK said the owner didn’t want daggerboards thro

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1 minute ago, Fintho said:

I'd love to know how that C-foil is being used, or if the crew would just prefer some massive fuck-off daggerboards

Once they crack the sheets and clear the exclusion zone they may deploy the C Foil.? Certainly after they round the rock but will also depend on wind strength?

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9 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Looks like Apivia and the other IMOCAs that went South early are doing nicely against Rambler and Skorpios.  Skorpios ahead of Apivia anyway, but not by all that much, and I think Apivia will cross Rambler if Rambler tacks.

Apivia only doing 10 Knots and VMG not that good so I think Rambler will be ahead once they clear the exclusion zone, if not massive win for Apivia at 60 feet and not foiling yet

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1 minute ago, terrafirma said:

Once they crack the sheets and clear the exclusion zone they may deploy the C Foil.? Certainly after they round the rock but will also depend on wind strength?

Correct me by all means but don't you have to have some sort of lift producing surface at all times when the keel is canted?

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27 minutes ago, Fintho said:

Correct me by all means but don't you have to have some sort of lift producing surface at all times when the keel is canted?

They have a trimtab and the C-Foils but I don't believe they use the C-Foils when going dead upwind. 

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1 minute ago, terrafirma said:

They have a trimtab and the C-Foils but I don't believe they use the C-Foils when going dead upwind

Right that makes sense

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49 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

A nice shot albeit low res of Skorpios and Rambler in 30-35 Knots of breeze. The beast is pushing some water that's for sure.! 

yandy326210.jpg

Bet the crews loving the freeboard there .

If it was much lower they'd be doing their best submarine impersonation through the waves .

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10 hours ago, terrafirma said:

A nice shot albeit low res of Skorpios and Rambler in 30-35 Knots of breeze. The beast is pushing some water that's for sure.! 

yandy326210.jpg

i'll be honest for a  boat so new that the crew has so little time in I'm surprised they're pushing her this hard. unless of course they're not pushing her that  hard and the boat just is in fact that fast. time will tell but either way this is really interesting to watch. 

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Well Well Well, Look whose winning Line Honors, IRC Zero and IRC Overall..! Surely not a boat with C Foils...? WTF.? 

If it stays this way, ala big boat race, what a debut it would be for Skorpios..! 

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It does seem as though it is a bit of a folly, it is impressive indeed, but if the whole idea is to break records and I'm sure it will but most those records will have an * next to it because it will be the fastest monohull. And if it wanted to break an outright record like in the Sydney Hobart, then it is ineligible because it is too long. In the fastnet it most likely will be beaten by a Mod 70 and you can pick one of those up for around 2 mill, it seems like it might be quite an expensive way to get bragging rights that you can't really brag about. But it would be impressive to see no doubt. 

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3 hours ago, vokstar said:

It does seem as though it is a bit of a folly, it is impressive indeed, but if the whole idea is to break records and I'm sure it will but most those records will have an * next to it because it will be the fastest monohull. And if it wanted to break an outright record like in the Sydney Hobart, then it is ineligible because it is too long. In the fastnet it most likely will be beaten by a Mod 70 and you can pick one of those up for around 2 mill, it seems like it might be quite an expensive way to get bragging rights that you can't really brag about. But it would be impressive to see no doubt. 

There are a lot of people who just don't like multis.   I assume this owner also wants to do the superyacht regattas, Voile de St Barth, St Tropez, Sardinia etc.  In which case he has built a hell of a boat for that.

Sure, he could go faster for less, but maybe he  just doesn't want to.  His money, his choice.

I would imagine it is probably even harder to find berthing around the world for Gitana than it is for a 140ft long, 25ft deep monohull.

Argo's owner chooses to race multihulls, his choice.  He could afford a Maxi tri, but doesn't want to (yet). He enjoys the GC32 and MOD70. 

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1 hour ago, Potter said:

There are a lot of people who just don't like multis.   I assume this owner also wants to do the superyacht regattas, Voile de St Barth, St Tropez, Sardinia etc.  In which case he has built a hell of a boat for that.

Sure, he could go faster for less, but maybe he  just doesn't want to.  His money, his choice.

I would imagine it is probably even harder to find berthing around the world for Gitana than it is for a 140ft long, 25ft deep monohull.

Argo's owner chooses to race multihulls, his choice.  He could afford a Maxi tri, but doesn't want to (yet). He enjoys the GC32 and MOD70. 

Great point about the superyacht regattas that is something I hadn't considered. 

It will be hellishly interesting to see what the boat does. It's not a full on criticism of the boat either. Just said what I said as a thought experiment on why he would go that route to break records. 

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Just watched the yachting world tour of Skorpios. pretty interesting to see that there are dedicated owner and crew spaces. Makes sense for a superyacht but not a ton of sense if you’re trying to save weight on a race boat. 
 

 

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16 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

Just watched the yachting world tour of Skorpios. pretty interesting to see that there are dedicated owner and crew spaces. Makes sense for a superyacht but not a ton of sense if you’re trying to save weight on a race boat. 

Dear Jacko, you are not serious, are you?

Dropping 30+ Million on a boat and not have a bit of space to get away from the paid crew?

Might as well tell the PBO to sit on the rail, or stay at home!

 

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To be honest, if Skorpios hadn’t got monohull line honours it would have been a failure. Being 37 feet longer than nearest rival and many years newer design.

what surprised me was that in the upwind leg, in lumpy seas, where waterline length is everything, she just held off an IMOCA that is about the length of Skorpios’ boom! Especially when IMOCA aren’t designed to go upwind well.

What I would love to see is an owner with vision going proper open with a monohull and doing an offshore toy that takes the best from IMOCA, volvo knowledge and does it bigger. (Not including AC75 tech in this question as that is inshore oriented and I don’t believe would work on a boat that meets OSR Cat 2 or higher and still work).

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6 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

To be honest, if Skorpios hadn’t got monohull line honours it would have been a failure. Being 37 feet longer than nearest rival and many years newer design.

what surprised me was that in the upwind leg, in lumpy seas, where waterline length is everything, she just held off an IMOCA that is about the length of Skorpios’ boom! Especially when IMOCA aren’t designed to go upwind well.

What I would love to see is an owner with vision going proper open with a monohull and doing an offshore toy that takes the best from IMOCA, volvo knowledge and does it bigger. (Not including AC75 tech in this question as that is inshore oriented and I don’t believe would work on a boat that meets OSR Cat 2 or higher and still work).

That upwind leg wasn't always upwind Chimp as Apivia was foiling at 18-19 Knots at times. So you are incorrect at making that comparison. An Imoca 60 not foiling would not get anywhere near Skorpios upwind without foil assistance. I can't believe you'd make this sort of comment without looking closely at that upwind leg. When the boats were neck and neck I was checking their speeds every sked and Apivia was foiling for periods. She doesn't go upwind at 18 Knots mate without foiling assistance. They were sheets eased a lot on the leg your referring too.!

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Now imagining Swan announcing the new Club Swan 60 Offshore Edition, complete with foils and owners conservatory.

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13 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

That upwind leg wasn't always upwind Chimp as Apivia was foiling at 18-19 Knots at times. So you are incorrect at making that comparison. An Imoca 60 not foiling would not get anywhere near Skorpios upwind without foil assistance. I can't believe you'd make this sort of comment without looking closely at that upwind leg. When the boats were neck and neck I was checking their speeds every sked and Apivia was foiling for periods. She doesn't go upwind at 18 Knots mate without foiling assistance. They were sheets eased a lot on the leg your referring too.!

It’s offshore mate. From the start to the rock they were mainly heading upwind. How they played it tactically, considering their polars is up to them, but from the start to the rock, most of the time the turning mark ahead was upwind with a bit of bias. 

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7 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Now imagining Swan announcing the new Club Swan 60 Offshore Edition, complete with foils and owners conservatory.

Yeah good point but when you look at an Imoca it's an extreme shorthanded F1 boat designed to sail around the world non stop. The complete opposite in what most owners are looking for. Have you heard the noises a foiling Imoca makes inside the cabin? Unbearable and would not be tolerated in a Racer Cruiser or even an IRC Racer. Some might argue the bigger boats with canting keels and motor running all the time whilst racing is a no no let alone listening to foil hum. Will we ever see a club racer with foils or a 60 foot version of Apivia on a club racing circuit? Don't think so we have the Clubswan 36 with C foils because C foils are manageable by amateurs. 

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Just now, Chimp too said:

It’s offshore mate. From the start to the rock they were mainly heading upwind. How they played it tactically, considering their polars is up to them, but from the start to the rock, most of the time the turning mark ahead was upwind with a bit of bias. 

Apivia was doing 18 knots at times Chimp.! Use your brain. 

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Anyone got some Apivia polars?

I think you will find that (in the high windrange) they are close to fully foiling at around 25 TWS @ 60 AWA.

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1 minute ago, Frogman56 said:

Anyone got some Apivia polars?

I think you will find that (in the high windrange) they are close to fully foiling at around 25 TWS @ 60 AWA.

Yes Apivia has been moded with her new foils to go better in a wider range of conditions. If you watched the start they smoked the other Imoca's going 5 knots faster and a little lower. 

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21 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Apivia was doing 18 knots at times Chimp.! Use your brain. 

I’m not saying they didn’t crack off occasionally, but the definition of an upwind leg does not relate to local wind shifts, or a boats optimum upwind VMG TWA. Aprivia showed HB etc that cracking off and sailing under them got to the windward mark a lot quicker. Same happened all the way to the rock, just with some bias and local wind shifts. Still basically an upwind leg

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3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Great effort by Skorpios for her first race in challenging conditions. Certainly silenced the doubters and snide remarks.! Held off a foiling Imoca and then extended to win by nearly 8 hours in front of Rambler. Nice little video of the beast here. https://www.instagram.com/p/CSaYZBNIGT6/

 

And if the wind drops out enough for them to take the handicap win,  (which is not an impossible ask),  all of a sudden they look smart!

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16 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

I’m not saying they didn’t crack off occasionally, but the definition of an upwind leg does not relate to local wind shifts, or a boats optimum upwind VMG TWA. Aprivia showed HB etc that cracking off and sailing under them got to the windward mark a lot quicker. Same happened all the way to the rock, just with some bias and local wind shifts. Still basically an upwind leg

Agreed but hows that relate to Skorpios. You wan't to compare an F1 Imoca to a keel boat racer? As soon as Apivia couldn't foil Skorpios blew her away as she should being that big. There isn't another boat as fast as Apivia at the moment in foiling mode unless we go to AC boats. 

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45 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Yeah good point but when you look at an Imoca it's an extreme shorthanded F1 boat designed to sail around the world non stop. The complete opposite in what most owners are looking for. Have you heard the noises a foiling Imoca makes inside the cabin? Unbearable and would not be tolerated in a Racer Cruiser or even an IRC Racer. Some might argue the bigger boats with canting keels and motor running all the time whilst racing is a no no let alone listening to foil hum. Will we ever see a club racer with foils or a 60 foot version of Apivia on a club racing circuit? Don't think so we have the Clubswan 36 with C foils because C foils are manageable by amateurs. 

The new ClubSwan 60 Offshore edition will feature a removable owners conservatory, and removable foils, with shore crew provided by Club Swan. Race your new weapon offshore in the Fastnet in comfort for a few days, and Club Swan will be on hand in Cherbourg to convert it ready for your champagne reception whilst you take a shower in the 5 star resort and tuck into some moules frites.

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15 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

The new ClubSwan 60 Offshore edition will feature a removable owners conservatory, and removable foils, with shore crew provided by Club Swan. Race your new weapon offshore in the Fastnet in comfort for a few days, and Club Swan will be on hand in Cherbourg to convert it ready for your champagne reception whilst you take a shower in the 5 star resort and tuck into some moules frites.

That sounds like fun.! Got the money.? I'm in....:D 

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The place where foil assisted imocas have made the biggest gains over older boats has been upwind so it kind of doesn’t surprise me Apivia were so fast. Older gen 60s don’t go upwind but some of the new ones very much do. Just happens to be that their vmg upwind is 14-18 at 60°

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26 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

That sounds like fun.! Got the money.? I'm in....:D 

I'm seeing how much Swan will give me for the idea :lol:

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2 hours ago, JonRowe said:

The new ClubSwan 60 Offshore edition will feature a removable owners conservatory, and removable foils, with shore crew provided by Club Swan. Race your new weapon offshore in the Fastnet in comfort for a few days, and Club Swan will be on hand in Cherbourg to convert it ready for your champagne reception whilst you take a shower in the 5 star resort and tuck into some moules frites.

If it's anything like the 'services' being offered to the Club 36 fleet I'll take a hard pass.

3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Will we ever see a club racer with foils or a 60 foot version of Apivia on a club racing circuit? Don't think so we have the Clubswan 36 with C foils because C foils are manageable by amateurs. 

The 36s pretty much ignore the foil, general consensus is it's just a hand-brake even on a blast reach when it should be at max efficiency. 

 

I think Skorpios have put a solid performance together. Brand new boat, completed the course and took mono line honours when many people were saying R88 would beat them over the water. Comparing them to Apivia is tenuous exercise - that boat absolutely destroyed the rest of the IMOCA fleet and the differences between this boat and Skorpios are huge. Apivia's performance was stand-out, let's just celebrate that on it's own.

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No footage or info yet on whether Skorpios used their C Foils.? The only time would have been after they rounded the rock down to the TSS Zones, after that it was too light.  From the video footage when they were finally able to bear away it did look fast but not conclusive. Certainly wasn't ideal from that perspective. It would be good to see them do a Transatlantic or similar where they maybe able to use the foils and see how they go compared to Comanche over an extended time..

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

No footage or info yet on whether Skorpios used their C Foils.? The only time would have been after they rounded the rock down to the TSS Zones, after that it was too light.  From the video footage when they were finally able to bear away it did look fast but not conclusive. Certainly wasn't ideal from that perspective. It would be good to see them do a Transatlantic or similar where they maybe able to use the foils and see how they go compared to Comanche over an extended time..

I'm intrigued, hopefully we can get feedback from the crew soon. So far the C foil performance has been pretty average;

Club 36 - rarely deployed, even on beam reach. Was referred to as 'a brake' by the crew of one boat last week during Copa del Rey

Club 80 - removed from the design, apparently after independent studies made by a prospective team. Not exactly confidence inspiring...

Club 125 - apparently the source of the C foil design so perhaps will have better results, especially with higher boat speeds? I get the feeling the foil is pretty ineffective and will only really show tangible gains on v long offshore/ocean legs. If the rumour is true that the owner specified a non deck piercing foil then I guess there is only so much you can do...

 

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9 hours ago, NZK said:

I'm intrigued, hopefully we can get feedback from the crew soon. So far the C foil performance has been pretty average;

Club 36 - rarely deployed, even on beam reach. Was referred to as 'a brake' by the crew of one boat last week during Copa del Rey

Club 80 - removed from the design, apparently after independent studies made by a prospective team. Not exactly confidence inspiring...

Club 125 - apparently the source of the C foil design so perhaps will have better results, especially with higher boat speeds? I get the feeling the foil is pretty ineffective and will only really show tangible gains on v long offshore/ocean legs. If the rumour is true that the owner specified a non deck piercing foil then I guess there is only so much you can do...

 

At least they aren't in the water all the time. Also with the Clubswan 125 it was designed 4-5 years ago as apparently it took 4 years to build? (Covid Delays perhaps). I wonder if re-designing the foils and retaining the housing is possible once foil development has peaked.? Yes it takes up space inside the boat but this is a race boat and canting keels and the hydraulics have always done the same thing. 

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I would have thought that if Juan honestly thought the C foil was a good solution then his IMOCA designs might follow a similar path, but he went in the opposite direction there.

 I really think that the C foil is all about trying to do a DSS but avoid the patent, and more importantly, invent his own solution. With foils being relatively new to monohulls, he wanted a trademark solution and this was it. Whether it works or not is besides the point, it is being talked about, which keeps Juan  relevant.

 I also understand that the 4 year build was due to having to build the hill twice, and many other build issues.

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16 hours ago, NZK said:

I'm intrigued, hopefully we can get feedback from the crew soon. So far the C foil performance has been pretty average;

Club 36 - rarely deployed, even on beam reach. Was referred to as 'a brake' by the crew of one boat last week during Copa del Rey

Club 80 - removed from the design, apparently after independent studies made by a prospective team. Not exactly confidence inspiring...

Club 125 - apparently the source of the C foil design so perhaps will have better results, especially with higher boat speeds? I get the feeling the foil is pretty ineffective and will only really show tangible gains on v long offshore/ocean legs. If the rumour is true that the owner specified a non deck piercing foil then I guess there is only so much you can do...

 

Shame about the ClubSwan 80, as that looks an awesome yacht. I will have to change my avatar now!

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55 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

I would have thought that if Juan honestly thought the C foil was a good solution then his IMOCA designs might follow a similar path, but he went in the opposite direction there.

 I really think that the C foil is all about trying to do a DSS but avoid the patent, and more importantly, invent his own solution. With foils being relatively new to monohulls, he wanted a trademark solution and this was it. Whether it works or not is besides the point, it is being talked about, which keeps Juan  relevant.

 I also understand that the 4 year build was due to having to build the hill twice, and many other build issues.

I agree but not with C Foils on an Imoca. Hey Chimp watch this video with JuanK, its a great perspective on the foils pros and cons. So hard, so many aspects to consider. I think he acknowledges that VPLP maybe slightly ahead of him but not by much. It's the choices the boat owner can ask for. But C Foils no.! You also need to understand a boat like Skorpios will never have foils like the new Imoca's as they are not practical. You can't dock normally for example. They are virtually an F1 Solution not for the normal sailing fraternity. 

 

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10 hours ago, Chimp too said:

I would have thought that if Juan honestly thought the C foil was a good solution then his IMOCA designs might follow a similar path, but he went in the opposite direction there.

 I really think that the C foil is all about trying to do a DSS but avoid the patent, and more importantly, invent his own solution. With foils being relatively new to monohulls, he wanted a trademark solution and this was it. Whether it works or not is besides the point, it is being talked about, which keeps Juan  relevant.

 I also understand that the 4 year build was due to having to build the hill twice, and many other build issues.

I disagree. The IMOCAS are no compromise boats built to what the rule allows. The Swan needs to be able to tie up to the dock and show off for the owner. Very different requirements that would certainly affect the foil choice. 

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10 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I disagree. The IMOCAS are no compromise boats built to what the rule allows. The Swan needs to be able to tie up to the dock and show off for the owner. Very different requirements that would certainly affect the foil choice. 

Now if you could build dali foils that doubled as gang planks... seriously though could you imagine the size of the dali foils required to lift this beast?

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I think the term C-foil is somewhat misleading since it actually only replaces the vertical daggerboards that are required on canting keel boats. Of course it is still a foil in the sense that it is a wing, but the concept is fundamentally different compared to DSS or IMOCA foils. 

I can imagine that the initial idea behind it was a way to get rid of the daggerboards sticking out of the deck. And then they tried to capitalize on the fact that due to the given shape it also provides vertical lift, which is currently en vogue.

Straight daggerboards have been used in several generations of Volvo 70s and IMOCAs so I think if there was any major advantage to curved boards someone would have stumbled across this earlier.

To me the C-foils are simply daggerboards with a somewhat different performance envelope, probably suboptimal for upwind,  better in reaching conditions and still being retracted downwind.

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2 hours ago, neuronz said:

I think the term C-foil is somewhat misleading since it actually only replaces the vertical daggerboards that are required on canting keel boats. Of course it is still a foil in the sense that it is a wing, but the concept is fundamentally different compared to DSS or IMOCA foils. 

I can imagine that the initial idea behind it was a way to get rid of the daggerboards sticking out of the deck. And then they tried to capitalize on the fact that due to the given shape it also provides vertical lift, which is currently en vogue.

Straight daggerboards have been used in several generations of Volvo 70s and IMOCAs so I think if there was any major advantage to curved boards someone would have stumbled across this earlier.

To me the C-foils are simply daggerboards with a somewhat different performance envelope, probably suboptimal for upwind,  better in reaching conditions and still being retracted downwind.

If you simplify all foils they started life as replacements for daggerboards, IMOCA foils are also a class of dagger foil, acting to prevent leeway, providing righting moment and as a side effect, lift, if they were truly lifting foils only they'd look different and IMOCAs would have rudder elevators. The Americas cup cats started from the same principles, mostly leeway prevention and then the kiwi's capitalised on that shape to also give vertical lift and here we are... NACRAs I believe even went through the straight, curved, L shaped boards so they went through that process, and the Figaro 3 has the "inverted foil". So swans C foil isn't new, it builds on many previous designs to do something different (slightly), the question is does it work?

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2 hours ago, JonRowe said:

If you simplify all foils they started life as replacements for daggerboards, IMOCA foils are also a class of dagger foil, acting to prevent leeway, providing righting moment and as a side effect, lift, if they were truly lifting foils only they'd look different and IMOCAs would have rudder elevators. The Americas cup cats started from the same principles, mostly leeway prevention and then the kiwi's capitalised on that shape to also give vertical lift and here we are... NACRAs I believe even went through the straight, curved, L shaped boards so they went through that process, and the Figaro 3 has the "inverted foil". So swans C foil isn't new, it builds on many previous designs to do something different (slightly), the question is does it work?

From all reports functionality is limited. I would love to know if Skorpios used their foils during the Fastnet? I suspect not,  simply based on the weather and their 1st upwind leg to the rock. By the time they rounded the rock they were with full main and whilst they certainly looked fast bearing away that could have simply been a 125' boat doing it's thing. I suspect if they were to try and break a Transatlantic record or something the foils would help with the weather they'd be racing in. I also wonder with foil development whether they could further develop the c- foils they have? 

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In the latest edition of Seahorse there’s an article about the CS125 and they go into a bit more detail about the boat. The Cfoil was chosen because as NZK said the owner didn’t want daggerboards through the deck so the Cfoil is just a replacement for those. The keel has a trim tab that under most powered up conditions is tilted up to produce downforce and generate more power, vmg running downwind it is tilted down to generate lift. The Cfoil in the future has the ability to change rake but for the meantime to reduce complication it is static. The foil is all the way down upwind and apparently produces negative leeway, the CS36s only managed to reduce leeway. 

One of the reasons the boat took so long is the first hull ruptured during the curing process so had to be binned, that first hull was to a different design that was more cruise orientated, they and the owner took that as an opportunity to start again and build a full racer

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9 hours ago, JonRowe said:

If you simplify all foils they started life as replacements for daggerboards, IMOCA foils are also a class of dagger foil, acting to prevent leeway, providing righting moment and as a side effect, lift, if they were truly lifting foils only they'd look different and IMOCAs would have rudder elevators. The Americas cup cats started from the same principles, mostly leeway prevention and then the kiwi's capitalised on that shape to also give vertical lift and here we are... NACRAs I believe even went through the straight, curved, L shaped boards so they went through that process, and the Figaro 3 has the "inverted foil". So swans C foil isn't new, it builds on many previous designs to do something different (slightly), the question is does it work?

I disagree. For the IMOCAs it was clear from the beginning that there is a tradeoff where boats are giving away some upwind performance for much higher reaching and downwind speed. However, on a Vendee Globe this was considered beneficial. And they cannot have rudder elevators because the class rules do not allow this. I expect that in the future we will see a comeback of the keels providing the majority of the sideforce again upwind since the rig imposes a righting moment limit anyway.

The foils for multihulls originate from a completely different line of development. They have been using curved foils for a long time to get some vertical lift as they are much lighter for a given righting moment and can tolerate the righting moment loss due to the high impact in resistance. The development in the AC was simply a matter of taking this concept all the way to the end.

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3 hours ago, Liquid said:

Didn't a Baltic super mono launch 'recently' with DSS?

Hows that getting on?

Yes, Canova. The new and late Infiniti 52 is also a DSS boat from inception.

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Funny thing is that the trim tab on the keel fin is probably far more effective than the c foil and makes it rather redundant.

 I understand that Canova had a few initial issues with the furling system, nothing to do with the foil. But once that was sorted it has performed as intended. But full on cruiser where DSS is there to add RM, reduce heel angle and pitching.

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With Skorpios’ keel draft there aren’t many marinas where she can be alongside anyway. Anchored in the harbour will be the normal status. So only steps to get from tender to the deck needed. Foils could be helpful for that with the freeboard she has!

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  • 5 weeks later...

Word from my British spies was that Skorpios nailed a ledge in the Solent during the lead up to the race….hard. Sounds like maybe they didn’t press the boat as much in the Fastnet due to this and it explains why they’re not at the maxi cup.

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2 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Word from my British spies was that Skorpios nailed a ledge in the Solent during the lead up to the race….hard. 

They did what? I am not a native English speaker and I have never heard this expression?

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On 8/9/2021 at 4:27 AM, terrafirma said:

Would love to know the Skorpios crew list.? 

I know this is an old post and I don't know the full crew list, but since I have a few friends on board I know the Spaniards on it: Fernando Echávarri,  Antonio  Cuervas-Mons (Ñeti), Pablo Arrarte (Patán), Juan Meseguer, Pepe Ribes, Fernando  Rivero, David Pella, Aleix Gelabert, Bruno García and Carlos Hernández

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  • 1 month later...

I was a cheerleader for this boat further upthread. Right now I just don’t know what to say besides it feels like they’re not tapping into it’s real performance. Fernando E is probably getting his walking papers right about now, and I could see Ken Read’s phone lighting up. 
 

massive embarrassment in the middle sea race

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25 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

I was a cheerleader for this boat further upthread. Right now I just don’t know what to say besides it feels like they’re not tapping into it’s real performance. Fernando E is probably getting his walking papers right about now, and I could see Ken Read’s phone lighting up. 
 

massive embarrassment in the middle sea race

Mate, 

 

Don't write them off yet, It's only their 2 race in 3 - 4 months sailing of a brand new boat. They are more that likely still on their first set of sails. The big C has had almost 10 years on the water and has had  millions of $$$$ spend on her to get her up to speed and the weather was just what she needed to  perform. 

 

Let's see what the big swan is like 12 + months down the track when the playbook is written for what sail is needed when.

 

Pulpit

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I'm definitely no expert on the subject and I sure as hell couldn't have done a better job myself but it strikes me a bit as tactical error/weather routing errors? On two occasions Skorpios was at best stationary and at worst going backwards while Comanche was still moving in the right direction and that's also when they lost their lead.

   image.png.9fee3a227f2c29e355194fa76f889da0.png  image.png.2699ebfb257f21e01b9ba5982e4a06e1.png

 

Top image is first time, bottom image is 2nd time. If memory serves me right the first one was due to them sailing straight into a wind hole because they were further west than Comanche. Unfortunately the Windy overlay is no longer available on the tracker.

Again, I'm not saying I would have done a better job but I'm not sure the boat or the sails is 100% at fault here?

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On 10/28/2021 at 6:02 PM, Tylo said:

I'm definitely no expert on the subject and I sure as hell couldn't have done a better job myself but it strikes me a bit as tactical error/weather routing errors? On two occasions Skorpios was at best stationary and at worst going backwards while Comanche was still moving in the right direction and that's also when they lost their lead.

   image.png.9fee3a227f2c29e355194fa76f889da0.png  image.png.2699ebfb257f21e01b9ba5982e4a06e1.png

 

Top image is first time, bottom image is 2nd time. If memory serves me right the first one was due to them sailing straight into a wind hole because they were further west than Comanche. Unfortunately the Windy overlay is no longer available on the tracker.

Again, I'm not saying I would have done a better job but I'm not sure the boat or the sails is 100% at fault here?

None of the weather models for the race would agree with each other and someone has to be the first boat into the funky zone. Slightly easier to see where to go when your competitor in front shows you where the big wind hole is

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  • 5 weeks later...
7 hours ago, eastcoastlow said:

Heard a rumour this boat has suffered a broken keel ram. Anyone got any details?

Pretty sure this is correct - boat is still sat in Montenegro but was due to have returned to it's winter base down this end of the Med....

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