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What to know - Catalina 22


sailorcolin

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My club just acquired via donation a Catalina 22. As the head instructor, I hope to use the boat as a learn to sail and intro to keelboat racing. The photos attached are as she sits now (she did get a good haul cleaning on the lift). I have gone through and made some modifications in preparation for her first sail. Take a look and let me know what I need to look at or do. She has a marginal main, a 110, 135, 150 headsails. I believe the haul number is 124##. 

Here is a list of future modifications.

  • Replace Tiller
  • Add Inboard Jib Tracks
  • Replace Running Rigging 
  • Regrease Winches
  • Remove the sliding kitchen

For racing, she will be tuned to the North Sails tuning guide

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4 minutes ago, SailRacer said:

Since you have a “dark side” patch on your backpack, IMHO you do not need our help..

Sail Safe 

Are you referencing the North Sails or the November patch?

 

And I am asking for opinions because the Catalina 22 is a new boat for me. I've never sailed one and I'm asking the community for honest tips for the boat. 

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10 minutes ago, sailorcolin said:

Are you referencing the North Sails or the November patch?

 

And I am asking for opinions because the Catalina 22 is a new boat for me. I've never sailed one and I'm asking the community for honest tips for the boat. 

The Catalina 22 is a very plain-jane vanilla ride. I'd skip the inboard jib tracks, concentrate on getting the stock hardware into good shape, replace the running rigging, and probably the mainsail.

It's not a good teaching boat, not worth spending much money on. The main benefit over a centerboard dinghy is that it has on-board storage, and if you have reef points in the main you can teach reefing; if you've got nav equipment like a compass then you can teach that.

Basic sailing on a Catalina 22 is going to be kinda boring, but they do actually sail.

FB- Doug

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

The Catalina 22 is a very plain-jane vanilla ride. I'd skip the inboard jib tracks, concentrate on getting the stock hardware into good shape, replace the running rigging, and probably the mainsail.

It's not a good teaching boat, not worth spending much money on. The main benefit over a centerboard dinghy is that it has on-board storage, and if you have reef points in the main you can teach reefing; if you've got nav equipment like a compass then you can teach that.

Basic sailing on a Catalina 22 is going to be kinda boring, but they do actually sail.

FB- Doug

 

 

Well, it's all we have. Also, the club has a great Wednesday night series over the summers I plan on using her in. 

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

The Catalina 22 is a very plain-jane vanilla ride. I'd skip the inboard jib tracks, concentrate on getting the stock hardware into good shape, replace the running rigging, and probably the mainsail.

It's not a good teaching boat, not worth spending much money on. The main benefit over a centerboard dinghy is that it has on-board storage, and if you have reef points in the main you can teach reefing; if you've got nav equipment like a compass then you can teach that.

Basic sailing on a Catalina 22 is going to be kinda boring, but they do actually sail.

FB- Doug

 

 

I’m curious  about your logic,    They have the advantage of some shade for a kid and resistance to capsize if mishandled,   I only have a little bit of helm time a decade ago,   A couple guys gave me another crack when it got too windy to single hand a reefed main on my Bucc one fall day.  I had trouble adjusting to a boat that didn’t want to send me swimming, and it wasn’t my boat, so I was pretty cautious.   They had opportunity to laugh.   But it was my much appreciated first helm experience on a boat with ballast.   Why do you dislike them as an introduction to kinda heavy sorta stable boats?   I thought they were supposed to be the generic trailerable overnighter,  doing nothing great but not sucking in any category either. 

I’m also curious about your take on track location.   One I sailed with this spring couldn’t point as expected and had to tack when I didn’t.   I was on the Rhodes, not the Bucc with original gunnel tracks.   I don’t think it’s the owner but it may have been his jib.     

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1 hour ago, Lark said:
4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

The Catalina 22 is a very plain-jane vanilla ride. I'd skip the inboard jib tracks, concentrate on getting the stock hardware into good shape, replace the running rigging, and probably the mainsail.

It's not a good teaching boat, not worth spending much money on. The main benefit over a centerboard dinghy is that it has on-board storage, and if you have reef points in the main you can teach reefing; if you've got nav equipment like a compass then you can teach that.

Basic sailing on a Catalina 22 is going to be kinda boring, but they do actually sail.

 

I’m curious  about your logic,    They have the advantage of some shade for a kid and resistance to capsize if mishandled,   I only have a little bit of helm time a decade ago,   A couple guys gave me another crack when it got too windy to single hand a reefed main on my Bucc one fall day.  I had trouble adjusting to a boat that didn’t want to send me swimming, and it wasn’t my boat, so I was pretty cautious.   They had opportunity to laugh.   But it was my much appreciated first helm experience on a boat with ballast.   Why do you dislike them as an introduction to kinda heavy sorta stable boats?   I thought they were supposed to be the generic trailerable overnighter,  doing nothing great but not sucking in any category either. 

I’m also curious about your take on track location.   One I sailed with this spring couldn’t point as expected and had to tack when I didn’t.   I was on the Rhodes, not the Bucc with original gunnel tracks.   I don’t think it’s the owner but it may have been his jib.     

 

If the rig is set up properly, and it has good sails, putting inboard tracks -might- make a couple of degrees difference, probably not enough to notice. These things are shaped like a wheelbarrow and the foils are not very good, so it would be real easy to think you're "pointing" when actually pinching and making excessive leeway.

There are worse boats to learn to sail. They're klunky and unresponsive, so there will be a lag in picking up how boats are supposed to steer, or respond to the mainsheet. Many people I know sailing these boats don't bother with the mainsheet anyway..... it's in an awkward place and it doesn't do much. This is why I say to get the basic gear in good shape. If the blocks and cleats and winches are the usual crudded up antiques, there will be even less incentive to work at sailing the boat, what people "learn" is that you have to fight the boat itself to get basic shit done. When you're trying to teach, the basics of sailing the boat should be smooth, easy, and have a definite & consistent result.

All that aside, my basic problem is being grumpy and spoiled. I've sailed so many better boats that if my only option was a Catalina 22, I'd probably sit around playing video games instead. But until you get your hands on something better, I'll try to shut up and be positive. The boat does in fact sail.

FB- Doug

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If you have the reefing system that rolls the sail around the boom it is crap. If you are getting a new main convert to slab reefing. 

Unless you only sail in light wind conditions I would want a working jib of about 80%

Mine came with a symmetrical spinnaker and a pole which made light wind sailing more eventful.  

I sailed mine from Troon to Stornoway and back one summer, Pula to Albania and back the next. I learned a lot from that boat. 

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4 hours ago, Tempest said:

Inspect the keel too.  Those things are glass over cast iron they leak, rust, swell and fall off.... or have the lift eye rip out....

I did a quick inspection when it was on the lift, but I will take another look soon. I knew they were cast iron, but I didnt know they were glassed over. I thought they were just painted. It is on a freshwater lake, so alot of the hardware is in good condition. 

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Just to be clear

This boat was donated, therefore FREE. It's this or nothing as far as keelboats for club ownership. The main purpose of the boat will be for adults to learn to sail on. Our club is losing interest in adults because they don't want to learn on 420's or Lasers. They don't want to get wet and some aren't as agile as the dingys require.  I'd like to get as many sailors in the club as possible so the Catalina came up as a donation and I accepted. There is a lot of talk on here that the Catalina was a poor decision. As of now, there aren't any plans to buy another boat. If one is donated, then we can go down that road later. All said, I rather teach on the Catalina then nothing at all...

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Forget  my earlier post.

for a 0 dollar boat, just clean and repack the winches. Get new halyards when you can and GO SAILING! Who cares if it tacks thru 120 degrees (that is part of life sometimes).

make a list like the removal of the traveler, newer main etc. enlist help from the members after the first sail.

Sail Safe!

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27 minutes ago, SailRacer said:

Forget  my earlier post.

for a 0 dollar boat, just clean and repack the winches. Get new halyards when you can and GO SAILING! Who cares if it tacks thru 120 degrees (that is part of life sometimes).

make a list like the removal of the traveler, newer main etc. enlist help from the members after the first sail.

Sail Safe!

thanks

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1 hour ago, sailorcolin said:
1 hour ago, Bull City said:

What's wrong with the tiller? 

It's delaminating, It's sailable, but there is ALOT of bend. I'm sure it will break one day 

Better make a new one. Sure as can be, somebody is going to lean on it or put their foot on it, then you have a whole new lesson (vocabulary).

Teaching boats need to be bullet proof. It's difficult enough to convey the knowledge and skills of parts of the boat and how they work, without the distraction/destruction of "handle this part -only- like this" and a lot of personal quirks.

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, sailorcolin said:

It's delaminating, It's sailable, but there is ALOT of bend. I'm sure it will break one day

Cruisers on my R22 sometimes keep a wheel barrow handle ($12 at Lowe’s) as an emergency tiller.  They pre cut and drill it for the rudder housing and hiking stick,   Would that fit your boat or does the Catalina have a bigger rise?

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C22 will definitely help new sailors to feel the heel, as they are very tippy boats with the 150 or 135 and you have to get ahead of the puffs, flog the main and sail off the jib.  For teaching the 110 is what I would use most, as it is easier to get around and the mainsail is more involved in balancing the boat and depowering.  Best strategy for upwind and puffsis to Vang sheet, since the traveler is useless.

All of that said, it’s free, it can live on a trailer, it makes a pretty good committee boat, and you can store 43 zillion life jackets in it ;)

 

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If it's a swing keel, the keel is iron and is not encased in fiberglas (unless it was done as an owner mod). Check to make sure the hanger bolts are good and there is minimal lateral play (if there is, it can be fixed with an after market bushing kit).  Other than that (and the cable attachment), scrape off any rust and slap some paint on it. 

These boats sail better than they have any right to. Keep it flat (15 degrees or less) and it is a nice, stable platform to teach sailing basics.

Get to know www.catalinadirect.com .  They have anything you need to repair or upgrade.

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Better make a new one. Sure as can be, somebody is going to lean on it or put their foot on it, then you have a whole new lesson (vocabulary).

Teaching boats need to be bullet proof. It's difficult enough to convey the knowledge and skills of parts of the boat and how they work, without the distraction/destruction of "handle this part -only- like this" and a lot of personal quirks.

FB- Doug

Making one is on the short list for sure! 

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On 12/29/2018 at 4:25 AM, sailorcolin said:

I did a quick inspection when it was on the lift, but I will take another look soon. I knew they were cast iron, but I didnt know they were glassed over. I thought they were just painted. It is on a freshwater lake, so alot of the hardware is in good condition. 

You might be right.  It's been a while since I've looked at a Catalina 22

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1 hour ago, Norse Horse said:

That's the shittiest baseball bat I have ever seen.

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Just a suggestion, make the adults sail the little boats first, they will actually learn to sail and it is more exciting. Later the ones who want to can take "advanced sailing"  from a  high school aged summer instructor. and earn your school a little more cash.

At one sailing school I've seen they put a bunch little kids (6-8 yrs old) on a 22 foot keel boat and the kids love it. I believe the week long sessions are sold out all summer.

One instructor and bunch of little kids is a beautifull thing. Love seeing 3-4 little kids lined up like tug of war, hoisting the main. They learn communication and team work,  LIke "1 2 3 heave" , "1 2 3  heave"!  Some kids want to drive, some kids want to go swimming and some want to snack. This helps them have fun, builds interest, confidence and a desire for more sailing.

Later when the kids step up to Optis they get to be in charge and do it on their own. The little kids like being in a group of other kids and it really seems to promote sailing. They like fun!

As for your Catalina see if you can get rid of the life lines and rear pulpit. This will make it more comfortable and exciting! Yes make everything work easily and new lines are nice to hold. The tiller is fine, just needs some maintenance. Sand, varnish/paint with many coats and get a cover. Teaching how to be an owner and care for the boat and sails is equally important to racing skills. Especially if you want the students to one day be boat owners and join your club.

Just suggestions, good luck!

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9 hours ago, J22guy said:

Just a suggestion, make the adults sail the little boats first, they will actually learn to sail and it is more exciting. Later the ones who want to can take "advanced sailing"  from a  high school aged summer instructor. and earn your school a little more cash.

At one sailing school I've seen they put a bunch little kids (6-8 yrs old) on a 22 foot keel boat and the kids love it. I believe the week long sessions are sold out all summer.

One instructor and bunch of little kids is a beautifull thing. Love seeing 3-4 little kids lined up like tug of war, hoisting the main. They learn communication and team work,  LIke "1 2 3 heave" , "1 2 3  heave"!  Some kids want to drive, some kids want to go swimming and some want to snack. This helps them have fun, builds interest, confidence and a desire for more sailing.

Later when the kids step up to Optis they get to be in charge and do it on their own. The little kids like being in a group of other kids and it really seems to promote sailing. They like fun!

As for your Catalina see if you can get rid of the life lines and rear pulpit. This will make it more comfortable and exciting! Yes make everything work easily and new lines are nice to hold. The tiller is fine, just needs some maintenance. Sand, varnish/paint with many coats and get a cover. Teaching how to be an owner and care for the boat and sails is equally important to racing skills. Especially if you want the students to one day be boat owners and join your club.

Just suggestions, good luck!

True all the above; my experience ig going the other way around..... kids learn in Optis and then get into big boats under supervision.

The main thing I did was show them what the ropes were (Optis don't have main & jib halyards) but they already knew 90% of the terminology, which is a huge plus on a big complex boat, and show them how you could get hurt with the winches. I stood in the companionway while they practiced tacking and stopping, IIRC might have said some encouraging words, but then I went below and read a book.

The two biggest failings of an instructor are failure to make the basics clear, the challenge here is to get all the info across without boring the student; and over-instructing once the student has a working grasp of the basics and is practicing. I put my hands in my pockets and kept the kids from getting hurt.

FB- Doug

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You only need inboard tracks if you plan to race it.  If you plan to race it, you will need to get rid of the lifelines and make a number of other upgrades.  Join the Catalina 22 Association and buy the C22 Owners Manual and Tech Manual.  These resources have more information about the C22 than probably all other classes of boats combined have about their classes. 

While the C22 is not fast, was not designed for racing, and not something you want to take offshore, these resources and the fact that you can buy practically any part you need online for any year model and have it overnighted are two reasons for it continues to be popular. 

FYI - Class rules also require an operational outboard.  I don't see one in your photos. 

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