Suilven

Old Guy Wanting to Dinghy Sail

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Hi everyone.  I live on Vancouver Island and am in my 60's but I'm fit.  I'm 5'10" and 180lb.  I had a Laser I in my late 30's and enjoyed the heck out of it.  Had a cabin sailboat for awhile and, now retired, I'm wanting to get back into sailing.  My budget won't allow me to keep a keelboat in a marina with all the associated costs, and I've considered kayaking, but my heart is really in sailing.  It occurred to me recently that perhaps I'm not too old to singlehand a dinghy.

I'm not interested in racing but would want to use the boat for fun in the harbour and for day trips with a lunch and thermos of coffee to nearby islands within a radius of perhaps 5 miles.  Normal weather would be calm water up to 1-ft. chop and wind 5-12 knots or so.  I'd keep it on the dinghy rack at a local marina and launch it from the dock.  Therefore, the lighter the hull weight the better.  I considered "beach camping" dinghies, like the Argie 15 and Chesapeake Skerry, but I don't really want a wood boat and this style of dinghy tends to be heavy and beamy.  The Wayfarer and suchlike are too bulky; the 29er is probably way too challenging to learn at my age.  Somewhere between those extremes in weight, bulk and manageability would be nice.  Simple rigging would be nice; I don't need a trapeze.  Affordability is a concern as well, especially since the first boat I buy might not be the ultimate one for me.  I'd like to get something for approx. $3000 or less. 

I know I'm giving you a wide target to aim at, but do you have any recommendations?  Would a Laser I be my best bet for starters?  Is there another class boat that would work for me?  Any online resources you'd recommend I read?  Any advice would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

 

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Of course you're not too old to sail a dinghy!

It would help to know 1) your size (height and weight); 2) normal weather conditions; 3) budget. You mention a Laser but also mention day trips with lunch and coffee thermos. You could squeeze both into an inspection port bag but are you thinking about something larger perhaps? 

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Just now, Alan Crawford said:

Of course you're not too old to sail a dinghy!

It would help to know 1) your size (height and weight); 2) normal weather conditions; 3) budget. You mention a Laser but also mention day trips with lunch and coffee thermos. You could squeeze both into an inspection port bag but are you thinking about something larger perhaps? 

Thanks Alan, for this.  You can probably tell I'm just beginning to think the details thru.  I'm 5'10" and 180lb.  Normal weather would be calm water up to 1-ft. chop and wind 5-12 knots or so.  I'd like to get something for approx. $3000 or less.  As long as I could pack lunch and perhaps 1-2 clothing items, I'd be good.  Of course, a bit more storage is always nice.  My only dinghy experience was with the Laser during my late 30's, but it was a blast, and I used it mostly for running along the coastline several miles, spending an hour or two hauled out on the beach, and then heading for home.  Sort of dinghy mini-cruises.

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42 minutes ago, VWAP said:

 

Sailing dinghy with a proper cabin.  Berths 2 ft. long.  I like.   Cool trapeze work - why hike off the side if you can hike off the aft end of the cabin?  

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How about a Sunfish?  Might it be better than a Laser for my purposes?

I see that it's slower than a Laser, but perhaps more stable and more comfortable for a longer sail.  Has some storage too.  Hull weight's a bit less than the Laser too.

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7 hours ago, Suilven said:

How about a Sunfish?  Might it be better than a Laser for my purposes?

I see that it's slower than a Laser, but perhaps more stable and more comfortable for a longer sail.  Has some storage too.  Hull weight's a bit less than the Laser too.

You're asking the right questions; weight is gonna be important, stowage too. Personally I dislike Sunfish, they're uncomfortable and wet to sail, but they are almost bulletproof. Good heavy-air and rough water boats, if you don't mind getting wet.

Something of the same weight, reefable, sit-in rather than on (but with good hiking position, not a knee-killer), decent stowage, reefable (which you can always get a sail made for you). And it has to be something that somebody near you is likely to be selling, that's the real kicker. Forums like this, everybody has the idea for The Perfect Boat but if you can't buy one, what's the point?

I can tell you what I did, bought an AMF Puffer. It's slower than the Sunfish but much more comfy and dry to sail. Rows pretty nicely too. Not as robustly built though.

FB- Doug

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If you could store it on a dolly a Raider would work good for you. Mine weighs about 210 lb., has a built in cooler and rigs quick.. Very comfortable and quick enough, easy to sail single or double handed. Hard to capsize and will self right from a knock down. Used one in your price range may have a spinny included and you can still single hand it. A force 5 would work too. A little larger and it has more room than a Laser.

 

http://raidersailboats.com/

2 spins.bmp

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5’10” 180 and rack storage looks like Laser, Sunfish, or if you’re willing to stretch your budget Aero 7, which is one of the lightest production glass singlehanders out there today. Might be able to get a good deal on a used or an event boat. Plus if it’s blowing the dogs off the chain or you don’t want to fight it too hard you can plop in a Radial or a 5m^2 rig for cheap.

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If the Laser worked before and you are still fit, it might still be the answer. Bringing it down a notch by going with a radial is a good suggestion as above. I would just go with it full time. Plus you can likely find one in your budget nearby or in Vancouver. There are Aeros in Seattle, but likely a few years away from a used one getting down below $6,000 (Can). 

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8 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

You're asking the right questions; weight is gonna be important, stowage too. Personally I dislike Sunfish, they're uncomfortable and wet to sail, but they are almost bulletproof. Good heavy-air and rough water boats, if you don't mind getting wet.

Something of the same weight, reefable, sit-in rather than on (but with good hiking position, not a knee-killer), decent stowage, reefable (which you can always get a sail made for you). And it has to be something that somebody near you is likely to be selling, that's the real kicker. Forums like this, everybody has the idea for The Perfect Boat but if you can't buy one, what's the point?

I can tell you what I did, bought an AMF Puffer. It's slower than the Sunfish but much more comfy and dry to sail. Rows pretty nicely too. Not as robustly built though.

FB- Doug

Thanks Doug.  The Puffer looks like it could match my needs.  160 lb which isn't too heavy to get on and off a dock.  Not sure whether I'd find one on BC's west coast - have never heard of the boat until now.  But I'll keep an eye open.

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6 hours ago, ARNOLD said:

If you could store it on a dolly a Raider would work good for you. Mine weighs about 210 lb., has a built in cooler and rigs quick.. Very comfortable and quick enough, easy to sail single or double handed. Hard to capsize and will self right from a knock down. Used one in your price range may have a spinny included and you can still single hand it. A force 5 would work too. A little larger and it has more room than a Laser.

 

http://raidersailboats.com/

2 spins.bmp

Thanks Arnold.  I think the Raider would be too heavy and beamy for my situation.  Because of storage limitations, I need something with 4 ft. beam or less and not much over 100lb weight.  The Raider would be great if my storage situation were different.  Cheers.

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5 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

5’10” 180 and rack storage looks like Laser, Sunfish, or if you’re willing to stretch your budget Aero 7, which is one of the lightest production glass singlehanders out there today. Might be able to get a good deal on a used or an event boat. Plus if it’s blowing the dogs off the chain or you don’t want to fight it too hard you can plop in a Radial or a 5m^2 rig for cheap.

Thanks 1.5Thumbs.  I'd love an Aero 7 but it's out of my price range.  Was your comment about a Radial or 5m2 rig in relation to the Laser or Sunfish?  Laser, I'm thinking.  That could be a solution.  I'll do some reading.  Any helpful websites you can refer me to for self-education about this issue of a smaller rig?  Cheers.

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4 hours ago, bill4 said:

If the Laser worked before and you are still fit, it might still be the answer. Bringing it down a notch by going with a radial is a good suggestion as above. I would just go with it full time. Plus you can likely find one in your budget nearby or in Vancouver. There are Aeros in Seattle, but likely a few years away from a used one getting down below $6,000 (Can). 

Bill4, thanks.  Here's the Laser website link.  https://www.laserperformance.us/boats-more/boats/laser?lang=en_US

Is the "Laser Radial Race" the model you're recommending?  I see the Radial is 5.7m2.  Is this the one you think might work for me?

I'm new to this, so please bear with me.  While looking at listings for used boats, am I searching for the stock Laser hull with the 5.7m2 Radial rig?  Thanks.

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31 minutes ago, Suilven said:

Thanks 1.5Thumbs.  I'd love an Aero 7 but it's out of my price range.  Was your comment about a Radial or 5m2 rig in relation to the Laser or Sunfish?  Laser, I'm thinking.  That could be a solution.  I'll do some reading.  Any helpful websites you can refer me to for self-education about this issue of a smaller rig?  Cheers.

5m^2 is the smaller Aero rig, but there's also the Laser Radial, which is a smaller sail but works similarly to the "full/standard" laser, it just has a shorter lower section.

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Not too old or too heavy for a laser. With your budget you can get a really good condition boat. Or only spend a portion of your budget and get one in average shape and will function perfectly.  There are lots of other dinghies that are more modern, faster and maybe better storage for your lunch. But modern and faster might really push your budget. 

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ya, used laser... you can get waterproof storage containers that fit into the standard inspection port openings... you don't care about racing so you'll be able to get a used one for a reasonable price that'll probably already have two inspection ports from repairs over the years so you'll have double the storage for thermos and sandwiches... kick up rudder so you can run it (lightly please) onto the beach at a local spot ... it's a sit on boat not a sit in, so no danger of having to try and recover a swamped boat after a capsize if sh!t goes sideways.... used spares, sails whathaveyou readily available due to reasonably large (god knows why) racing fleets... plus it'll get you there in decent time. if you opt for a, shall we say 'character' boat you're going to spend more time getting places and depending on currents you may not be getting anywhere at all.

enjoy whatever you choose! 

boats are cool.jpg

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Perhaps a small catamaran fits the bill? In some locales you'll find cats in good shape at that budget. Thebeachcats.com is full of helpful folks. 

Dinghies are great, of course, but I broadened my horizons to catamarans and I can report they are lots of fun. 

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You can't go past an OK Dinghy. There is no better class for diversity in age, weight, height and level of ability. You can attend a World Champs in this class and be guaranteed to have the time of you life. You will make lifelong friends.

http://2019.okworlds.org

 

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this guy is intending to sail in water that is so cold you'll die in like 15...not sure a catamaran is the best choice given what it takes to right them after a capsize?

and I'd challenge anyone in the pacific northwest to find an OK in this day and age that wasn't being used as a planter... cool boats tho! did they come in plastic? this guy seems to have dreams of hauling out on a beach for lunch... it'd be a shame to do that to a timber boat...

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Sounds like based on your size and budget a Laser meets your spec. Save some to invest in a good wet suit and / or drysuit.

While you may not have the room and it exceeds your budget, another interesting option to at least consider is a Weta trimaran.

 

PS - old guys rule! Sailing a small dinghy will keep you fit. One of my backcountry ski partners is in his 70's (I'm in my 50's) and I can't keep up with him on the uphill or down! You just can't stop!

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4 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

5m^2 is the smaller Aero rig, but there's also the Laser Radial, which is a smaller sail but works similarly to the "full/standard" laser, it just has a shorter lower section.

Thanks 1.5.

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4 hours ago, SailMoore1 said:

Not too old or too heavy for a laser. With your budget you can get a really good condition boat. Or only spend a portion of your budget and get one in average shape and will function perfectly.  There are lots of other dinghies that are more modern, faster and maybe better storage for your lunch. But modern and faster might really push your budget. 

SailMoore1, thanks.  A used Laser might be the ticket.

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3 hours ago, overdraft said:

ya, used laser... you can get waterproof storage containers that fit into the standard inspection port openings... you don't care about racing so you'll be able to get a used one for a reasonable price that'll probably already have two inspection ports from repairs over the years so you'll have double the storage for thermos and sandwiches... kick up rudder so you can run it (lightly please) onto the beach at a local spot ... it's a sit on boat not a sit in, so no danger of having to try and recover a swamped boat after a capsize if sh!t goes sideways.... used spares, sails whathaveyou readily available due to reasonably large (god knows why) racing fleets... plus it'll get you there in decent time. if you opt for a, shall we say 'character' boat you're going to spend more time getting places and depending on currents you may not be getting anywhere at all.

enjoy whatever you choose! 

boats are cool.jpg

Thanks Overdraft.  Looks more and more like a used Laser might be the way to go.  When you refer to "character" boats and their limitations, are you thinking of open wooden sailing skiffs, beach cruisers, that sort of thing?

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5 hours ago, Suilven said:

Thanks Doug.  The Puffer looks like it could match my needs.  160 lb which isn't too heavy to get on and off a dock.  Not sure whether I'd find one on BC's west coast - have never heard of the boat until now.  But I'll keep an eye open.

I think the rigged boat is more like 120 lbs, I can drag one around the grass of my back yard easily, unless the ground is sodden from rain, it doesn't even leave ruts. There must be some around, AMF made a blue million of these things.

Another possible answer is an inflatable roller. This might let you consider somewhat of a bigger deach cruiser. Soft place to sit while sailing, too.

I was just think of a Laser with a sail modified to reef easily, and a big box coaming built up around the front of the mast. Doesn't need to add much weight at all but it would keep you considerably drier and add some secure stowage too.

Don't look at the Coronado/Capri 13 (also called the Cyclone). I bought one of these to sail the creek/river behind our house, and it would have been great for that except that the hull was coming delaminated and the rig was so cheesy that it should have been thrown straight in the trash. If the boat were built worth a shit, it would be really nice..... ergonomic cockpit, good stowage, self-bailing, all good stuff.

Megabyte is a good suggestion if you can find one.

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

Megabyte. Comfy, fast, room for a passenger if so desired.

GRS, I hadn't heard of the Megabyte before this.  I see Bob Perry gave the boat a good review back in 2000.  I think this would be the perfect boat for me.  Comfy for longer days, lightweight for managing at the dock, and a decent turn of speed.  Can't seem to find any listed in my part of the world which is the west coast of BC.  Do you know if they tend to show up in great numbers in certain parts of the US/Canada?  Do you have one?  If so, can you tell me what you like about it?  Thanks for this.  I'll do some more research.

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2 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

Perhaps a small catamaran fits the bill? In some locales you'll find cats in good shape at that budget. Thebeachcats.com is full of helpful folks. 

Dinghies are great, of course, but I broadened my horizons to catamarans and I can report they are lots of fun. 

Thanks M.L.  I considered a cat but my storage will be limited to the marina's dinghy racks.  Cheers.

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2 hours ago, Mudz said:

You can't go past an OK Dinghy. There is no better class for diversity in age, weight, height and level of ability. You can attend a World Champs in this class and be guaranteed to have the time of you life. You will make lifelong friends.

http://2019.okworlds.org

 

Mudz, thanks but the OK is a plywood boat, right?  I have zero woodworking skills and no ambition to learn at this stage.  Fiberglass is going to be best for me.  Cheers.

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2 hours ago, overdraft said:

this guy is intending to sail in water that is so cold you'll die in like 15...not sure a catamaran is the best choice given what it takes to right them after a capsize?

and I'd challenge anyone in the pacific northwest to find an OK in this day and age that wasn't being used as a planter... cool boats tho! did they come in plastic? this guy seems to have dreams of hauling out on a beach for lunch... it'd be a shame to do that to a timber boat...

You're right OD.  Not wanting to spend any more time in the water than necessary.  Darn stuff is cold up here around Vancouver Island.  I realize the ideal boat for my purposes (sail a few miles, haul out on the beach for the afternoon, then go home) would be one of the beach cruisers, like the stitch and glue Skerrys and Dorys made by Chesapeake Light Craft, that sort of thing.  But I want to stay away from wood, because of the kinds of maintenance issues that can arise, as well as the heavier weights of most of these.  So I'm looking for a compromise for sure.  Seems the consensus so far is Laser, Sunfish or Megabyte (if I can find a Megabyte).  Thanks.

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2 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

Sounds like based on your size and budget a Laser meets your spec. Save some to invest in a good wet suit and / or drysuit.

While you may not have the room and it exceeds your budget, another interesting option to at least consider is a Weta trimaran.

 

PS - old guys rule! Sailing a small dinghy will keep you fit. One of my backcountry ski partners is in his 70's (I'm in my 50's) and I can't keep up with him on the uphill or down! You just can't stop!

Alan, I remember how fit I became sailing my Laser a few decades ago.  Great exercise for abs, quads, arms and also moving quickly and maintaining balance.  That's part of the reason I'm wanting a sailing dinghy (kayaks just don't do it for me).  The main reason of course is that there's nothing like sailing a boat, any boat, and although I've owned a Cal 20 and a C&C25, I don't think I ever enjoyed them as much as the Laser.  Just pure fun.

 

Do you prefer a wetsuit or drysuit, and why?  Thanks again.

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31 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I think the rigged boat is more like 120 lbs, I can drag one around the grass of my back yard easily, unless the ground is sodden from rain, it doesn't even leave ruts. There must be some around, AMF made a blue million of these things.

Another possible answer is an inflatable roller. This might let you consider somewhat of a bigger deach cruiser. Soft place to sit while sailing, too.

I was just think of a Laser with a sail modified to reef easily, and a big box coaming built up around the front of the mast. Doesn't need to add much weight at all but it would keep you considerably drier and add some secure stowage too.

Don't look at the Coronado/Capri 13 (also called the Cyclone). I bought one of these to sail the creek/river behind our house, and it would have been great for that except that the hull was coming delaminated and the rig was so cheesy that it should have been thrown straight in the trash. If the boat were built worth a shit, it would be really nice..... ergonomic cockpit, good stowage, self-bailing, all good stuff.

Megabyte is a good suggestion if you can find one.

FB- Doug

Inflatable roller like this?  image.png.bf6f6a28b3cd2b2c183cb5705ecdd461.png

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6 minutes ago, Suilven said:

Inflatable roller like this?  image.png.bf6f6a28b3cd2b2c183cb5705ecdd461.png

Bingo!

With one of those, you could roll a considerably bigger boat up/down the beach. Save wear+tear on the hull too. Get one with eyelets on each end though, for a tether and also to use as a fender. I use one of these to turn a Whaler into the equivalent of a RIB for junior sailing, as well as rolling boats around when I get tired of dragging them

FB- Doug

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To the Laser-lovers, in case this is the boat I choose (probably the easiest one to find in my locale) -- for comfort and stability if I use the boat as a beach cruiser with attitude, is the Radial rig (5.7m2) the way to go or should I think about the 4.7m2 rig?  Thanx.

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Bingo!

With one of those, you could roll a considerably bigger boat up/down the beach. Save wear+tear on the hull too. Get one with eyelets on each end though, for a tether and also to use as a fender. I use one of these to turn a Whaler into the equivalent of a RIB for junior sailing, as well as rolling boats around when I get tired of dragging them

FB- Doug

Great!  Thanks Doug.

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Another question:  can you folks recommend some good Classifieds websites where I might shop for a used Laser/Sunfish/Megabyte/Puffer?

I'm in BC, and there are very few dinghies for sale thru Used.Ca, Kijiji and Craigslist.  There must be sites where you dinghy sailors go to buy boats...??

Thanx.

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Just stumbled across an ad for a Europe.  Someone wrote it's more stable than a Laser, but I don't know about that.  I think it would be too small for me at 180lb - correct?

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I’d say a Europe would be a bit small. Cool boats, but at our club (back in the day) it was the step up from the Opti for kids who weren’t big enough for lasers... 

try your local yacht/sailing club’s classifieds and ask around the docks, bulletin boards too... the cool kids will know where to look if they don’t know someone who’s selling

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11 hours ago, Suilven said:

Do you prefer a wetsuit or drysuit, and why?  Thanks again.

Normally a wetsuit with a spray top over the top. I have found a wetsuit to be less restrictive. A drysuit is nice for early Spring when the ice has just gone out. I've found with a wetsuit, if the breeze stops and the sun comes out, you can always cool down while with a drysuit in those same conditions its harder. That said, personal preference. I am sure people can post here why they much prefer a drysuit.

Regarding the Megabyte, check out West Coast Sailing's (Portland, OR) web site. I have seen used Megabyte's occasionally.

https://www.westcoastsailing.net/default/boats/used.html

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11 hours ago, Suilven said:

To the Laser-lovers, in case this is the boat I choose (probably the easiest one to find in my locale) -- for comfort and stability if I use the boat as a beach cruiser with attitude, is the Radial rig (5.7m2) the way to go or should I think about the 4.7m2 rig?  Thanx.

At your weight you can go with either Standard or Radial, most racing Radial sailors are juniors under 160lbs or women who live around 140, the 4.7 rig was designed for kids coming out of Optis who weren't strong enough to hold the boat down (published 90-120lbs but in practice most kids hit the Radial as soon as they could), the lower mast section is permanently kinked to correct the center of effort further aft, unsure about their long term durability. 4.7's were never popular around me and you'd be underpowered in most conditions, Radial might be a bit kinder to your knees and back than Standard

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13 hours ago, overdraft said:

I’d say a Europe would be a bit small. Cool boats, but at our club (back in the day) it was the step up from the Opti for kids who weren’t big enough for lasers... 

try your local yacht/sailing club’s classifieds and ask around the docks, bulletin boards too... the cool kids will know where to look if they don’t know someone who’s selling

Good tip.  Thanks.

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4 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

Normally a wetsuit with a spray top over the top. I have found a wetsuit to be less restrictive. A drysuit is nice for early Spring when the ice has just gone out. I've found with a wetsuit, if the breeze stops and the sun comes out, you can always cool down while with a drysuit in those same conditions its harder. That said, personal preference. I am sure people can post here why they much prefer a drysuit.

Regarding the Megabyte, check out West Coast Sailing's (Portland, OR) web site. I have seen used Megabyte's occasionally.

https://www.westcoastsailing.net/default/boats/used.html

Thanks Alan.  When I had the Laser I used a Drysuit.  It was great until the air temperature climbed or the breeze died off on a warm day - then it was great drops of sweat.  I'll keep an eye on the WC Sailing site.

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4 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

At your weight you can go with either Standard or Radial, most racing Radial sailors are juniors under 160lbs or women who live around 140, the 4.7 rig was designed for kids coming out of Optis who weren't strong enough to hold the boat down (published 90-120lbs but in practice most kids hit the Radial as soon as they could), the lower mast section is permanently kinked to correct the center of effort further aft, unsure about their long term durability. 4.7's were never popular around me and you'd be underpowered in most conditions, Radial might be a bit kinder to your knees and back than Standard

Very helpful, 1.5.  Sounds like the Radial is the one.  Thanks much.

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17 hours ago, Suilven said:

GRS, I hadn't heard of the Megabyte before this.  I see Bob Perry gave the boat a good review back in 2000.  I think this would be the perfect boat for me.  Comfy for longer days, lightweight for managing at the dock, and a decent turn of speed.  Can't seem to find any listed in my part of the world which is the west coast of BC.  Do you know if they tend to show up in great numbers in certain parts of the US/Canada?  Do you have one?  If so, can you tell me what you like about it?  Thanks for this.  I'll do some more research.

They never really DID take off as far as I can tell - I don't know how many were built, but PS2000 WAS a Canadian company (before purchased by Zim Sailing) - keep an eye peeled for used ones - I have 2 myself and would sell you one, but the sail back to your place would be a bear !!

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5 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

They never really DID take off as far as I can tell - I don't know how many were built, but PS2000 WAS a Canadian company (before purchased by Zim Sailing) - keep an eye peeled for used ones - I have 2 myself and would sell you one, but the sail back to your place would be a bear !!

But at least I'd get a good tan along the way!

Now I see where you live, GRS, I'm green with envy.  To live in Hawaii and run a Megabyte along the coastline is my idea of heaven.

Thanks.

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The optimum weight for a Laser is 180-185. I would not get the radial unless you sail in an area that has consistently high winds. Or with your budget, you can get both rigs and use what is appropriate for the conditions. 

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180-185 is the optimal weight for racing a standard rig Laser, but I wouldn’t use this as a guideline for day sailing in cold water with lunch and coffee. I think ease of handling is more the target here. The radial will still provide some excitement when the breeze pipes up.

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On 2/4/2019 at 7:44 PM, Suilven said:

Mudz, thanks but the OK is a plywood boat, right?  I have zero woodworking skills and no ambition to learn at this stage.  Fiberglass is going to be best for me.  Cheers.

A little off topic but a friend of mine sailed his OK from Vancouver to Seattle in the '60s. He'd pull it up onto the beach at night and set up camp. FWIW my last OK (1975) was glass.

Megabyte seems worth a look. Maybe contact West Coast Sailing in Portland if you don't mind looking south of the border for a boat.

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12 hours ago, bill4 said:

180-185 is the optimal weight for racing a standard rig Laser, but I wouldn’t use this as a guideline for day sailing in cold water with lunch and coffee. I think ease of handling is more the target here. The radial will still provide some excitement when the breeze pipes up.

Sounds like the way I want to go.  A little more laid back that the standard rig.  Thanks bill4.

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9 hours ago, Chris Maas said:

A little off topic but a friend of mine sailed his OK from Vancouver to Seattle in the '60s. He'd pull it up onto the beach at night and set up camp. FWIW my last OK (1975) was glass.

Megabyte seems worth a look. Maybe contact West Coast Sailing in Portland if you don't mind looking south of the border for a boat.

Thanks Chris.  I'm keeping an eye on WCSailing.

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On the Island a good place to look for sailboats is on https://www.usednanaimo.com/classifieds/sail-boats/25 or on the sister sites in Victoria, Cowichan etc.

Not really sailboat selling season but you will see all sorts of boats pop up in the spring. Good chance of finding a megabyte, Solo, Enterprise, Force 5, Laser 1-2 and many more.

You can also search Craigslist, kijiji, or Facebook marketplace.

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4 hours ago, wannabefd said:

On the Island a good place to look for sailboats is on https://www.usednanaimo.com/classifieds/sail-boats/25 or on the sister sites in Victoria, Cowichan etc.

Not really sailboat selling season but you will see all sorts of boats pop up in the spring. Good chance of finding a megabyte, Solo, Enterprise, Force 5, Laser 1-2 and many more.

You can also search Craigslist, kijiji, or Facebook marketplace.

Wannabefd, thanks.  I've been watching those sites as well as Kijiji and Craigslist and will continue doing so.  Thanks for pointing out that Lasers, Megabytes, and others. do show up on those sites in springtime - that's encouraging to hear.  Cheers!

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https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/d/force-5-sailboat/6810806721.html

This looks to be a good deal. More like a standard rig Laser than a radial,  but more comfortable and roomy than a Laser. I sailed one once decades ago, so certainly no expert. A day trip to Seattle and some expense in getting it over the border, but worth consideration.

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3 hours ago, bill4 said:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/d/force-5-sailboat/6810806721.html

This looks to be a good deal. More like a standard rig Laser than a radial,  but more comfortable and roomy than a Laser. I sailed one once decades ago, so certainly no expert. A day trip to Seattle and some expense in getting it over the border, but worth consideration.

Can get a short sail for F5 from Intensity for about $125. You leave the top spar tube on the beach (F5 mast has 3 sections, top one is about 4'). F5 has room at front of cockpit for a decent size drybag either side of the DB trunk ahead of the thwart and out of the way.

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10 hours ago, bill4 said:

seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/d/force-5-sailboat/6810806721.html

 

10 hours ago, bill4 said:

seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/d/force-5-sailboat/6810806721.html

 

 

10 hours ago, bill4 said:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/d/force-5-sailboat/6810806721.html

 This looks to be a good deal. More like a standard rig Laser than a radial,  but more comfortable and roomy than a Laser. I sailed one once decades ago, so certainly no expert. A day trip to Seattle and some expense in getting it over the border, but worth consideration.

Thanks bill4.  I'll check it out.  Cheers.

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6 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

Can get a short sail for F5 from Intensity for about $125. You leave the top spar tube on the beach (F5 mast has 3 sections, top one is about 4'). F5 has room at front of cockpit for a decent size drybag either side of the DB trunk ahead of the thwart and out of the way.

DS, thanks for this info.  Force 5 looks like it'd meet my needs in every way.  Cheers!

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Good luck, looks like a nice option!

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43 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Good luck, looks like a nice option!

Raz'r, now I just need to find one! :)

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Nothing wrong with a laser radial for what you want to do.

 

heck, most boats out there already have  2 top sections and 2 sails. No need for a 4.7. 

Intensity.com has “generic” parts and sails for very low prices.

probably a local fleet of Masters available as well to chat with.

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Nothing wrong with a laser radial for what you want to do.

 

heck, most boats out there already have  2 top sections and 2 sails. No need for a 4.7. 

Intensity.com has “generic” parts and sails for very low prices.

probably a local fleet of Masters available as well to chat with.

Raz'r, are you saying most boats have 2 top mast sections of different lengths and 2 sails to match the different mast configurations?  Thanks for the tip about Intensity.  Best, Suilven

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While I'm thinking of it, another question:  I remember when I had my Laser many years ago I occasionally had to rely on sculling to get me that last 1/10 of a mile to the beach on a hot, still summer day.  The marina I'll be sailing from now has sketchy winds in summertime.  Sometimes up to 10-12 knots but often 2-3 knots and sometimes dead calm - variations can be hourly.  That is, fluky, uneven breezes.  Do any of you carry a paddle on your dinghy for those dead calm situations when you can't get sail home, or do you scull with the tiller?  

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7 minutes ago, Suilven said:

Raz'r, are you saying most boats have 2 top mast sections of different lengths and 2 sails to match the different mast configurations?  Thanks for the tip about Intensity.  Best, Suilven

Maybe just a local-to-me phenomena, but most of the local guys have both.

We teach our Jrs how to rock the boat in no-wind. Cleat off the main a bit loose, make sure the tiller is free, and rock the boat. Steer by heeling. 
 

Or, lay on the front and freestyle swim

 

but, a little paddle should be easy to carry

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Maybe just a local-to-me phenomena, but most of the local guys have both.

We teach our Jrs how to rock the boat in no-wind. Cleat off the main a bit loose, make sure the tiller is free, and rock the boat. Steer by heeling. 
 

Or, lay on the front and freestyle swim

 

but, a little paddle should be easy to carry

 

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Maybe just a local-to-me phenomena, but most of the local guys have both.

We teach our Jrs how to rock the boat in no-wind. Cleat off the main a bit loose, make sure the tiller is free, and rock the boat. Steer by heeling. 
 

Or, lay on the front and freestyle swim

 

but, a little paddle should be easy to carry

Thanks Raz'r.  Three options you've offered here.  The first option sounds like it employs similar physics to a roll tack in light air.

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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Nothing wrong with a laser radial for what you want to do.

 

heck, most boats out there already have  2 top sections and 2 sails. No need for a 4.7. 

Intensity.com has “generic” parts and sails for very low prices.

probably a local fleet of Masters available as well to chat with.

No legal laser uses different length top sections. Laser Radial and Laser Standard use same top section but have different length bottom sections. Similarly the Laser 4.7 uses same top section and an even shorter bottom section that also has a kink in it

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1 minute ago, GBR2083 said:

No legal laser uses different length top sections. Laser Radial and Laser Standard use same top section but have different length bottom sections. Similarly the Laser 4.7 uses same top section and an even shorter bottom section that also has a kink in it

Thanks GBR.  This seems to clear it up.

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14 hours ago, Suilven said:

Thanks Raz'r.  Three options you've offered here.  The first option sounds like it employs similar physics to a roll tack in light air.

Zackly. You rock the boat athwartship, heeling it with a quick motion to "scull" the sail thru the air. Pull it over as far as you can, then back the other way. The rocking doesn't have to be symmetrical BTW, you can sit slightly to one side for good leverage, and rock like hell then let it go back to just vertical. Saves the thigh muscles and the knees. On Laser you can tie off the tiller, and stand just forward of the mast, waving it back & forth, and build surprising speed. Much faster than you can go by paddling.

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Zackly. You rock the boat athwartship, heeling it with a quick motion to "scull" the sail thru the air. Pull it over as far as you can, then back the other way. The rocking doesn't have to be symmetrical BTW, you can sit slightly to one side for good leverage, and rock like hell then let it go back to just vertical. Saves the thigh muscles and the knees. On Laser you can tie off the tiller, and stand just forward of the mast, waving it back & forth, and build surprising speed. Much faster than you can go by paddling.

FB- Doug

I like to stand up in cockpit one foot on center and one foot outboard and just do it on one tack. Very little effort and more elegant/dignified than when the kids are thrashing back and forth in front of the mast. You also get to keep tiller in your hand to steer or take advantage of any puffs.

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Zackly. You rock the boat athwartship, heeling it with a quick motion to "scull" the sail thru the air. Pull it over as far as you can, then back the other way. The rocking doesn't have to be symmetrical BTW, you can sit slightly to one side for good leverage, and rock like hell then let it go back to just vertical. Saves the thigh muscles and the knees. On Laser you can tie off the tiller, and stand just forward of the mast, waving it back & forth, and build surprising speed. Much faster than you can go by paddling.

FB- Doug

Doug, cool.  Thanks for the instructions.  I looked on Youtube last nite to see if someone had a video of this, but couldn't find one.  All the best to you.

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3 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

I like to stand up in cockpit one foot on center and one foot outboard and just do it on one tack. Very little effort and more elegant/dignified than when the kids are thrashing back and forth in front of the mast. You also get to keep tiller in your hand to steer or take advantage of any puffs.

Thanks Dex.  Sounds like the gentleman's approach.  I'd hate to feel undignified with all the rich people watching from their waterfront homes wondering why I don't have a Honda 9.9 on the transom...  :)

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Get a JY15, mine has treated me well, a little uncomfortable and wet, but pretty fast. You might want a JY14 if comfort is more important than speed. Avoid Lasers if the JY15 seems to uncomfortable.

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1 hour ago, JBOATTROUBLEMAKER said:

Get a JY15, mine has treated me well, a little uncomfortable and wet, but pretty fast. You might want a JY14 if comfort is more important than speed. Avoid Lasers if the JY15 seems to uncomfortable.

Thanks JBoat, I'll do some reading on those two.

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275 lbs is less than ideal for rack storage, as is a stayed rig (other than the top rack, I suppose). 

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On 2/3/2019 at 8:10 PM, Suilven said:

I'd keep it on the dinghy rack at a local marina and launch it from the dock.

 

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4 hours ago, bill4 said:

275 lbs is less than ideal for rack storage, as is a stayed rig (other than the top rack, I suppose). 

Just found some time to read about the JY boats.  Yes, 275lb is way too heavy for my purposes (rack storage and hand launching from the marina dock).  So far it seems the Force 5, Laser and Sunfish look like my best bets.  

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For my relaxed non-racing purposes, I'm thinking the Force 5 or Sunfish might be the ticket.  I like the fact the Force 5 has curved coamings - this would make hiking more comfy, it would seem.  And the cockpit is pretty large in case an old guy like me needs to take a nap mid-cruise. :)  It has a nice-looking sheer too.  The Sunfish looks super easy to rig and the lateen sail is attractive, and some have said the boat is bulletproof; however the cockpit is tiny and I imagine the Force 5 would be a better bet if I took along a friend.  Would you folks agree with my thinking?  My decision will, of course, be affected by what shows up in the local market this spring.

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The Force 5 is a much better choice, in my opinion. It is much more substantial without being unruly. Did you call that guy in Seattle? I don’t think they come along all that often.

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Thanks Bill4.  And thanks for the reminder about the boat in Seattle.  I have a little dog who hasn't been well this past week and in all the busyness I plumb forgot you'd sent along the ad.  I've just emailed him now.  Cheers.

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Just now, Suilven said:

Thanks Bill4.  And thanks for the reminder about the boat in Seattle.  I have a little dog who hasn't been well this past week and in all the busyness I plumb forgot you'd sent along the ad.  I've just emailed him now.  Cheers.

Bill4, by the way, do you think the price of the boat in Seattle is in the ballpark?  $2500 US including all gear and trailer.  Cheers.

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Dex Sawash is a much better resource on Force 5 prices. But it seems pretty fair to me.

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What other sailboats are available....I'd like performance but need a cocpit and don't want to be hanging out the side to go sailing...I've owned a capedory typhoon(tooslow) and cape dory 22(too slow)and two J22's(alittle to unstable to singlehand)....I need new ideas...thanks.

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J70...in you can afford it

19 minutes ago, shavdog said:

What other sailboats are available....I'd like performance but need a cocpit and don't want to be hanging out the side to go sailing...I've owned a capedory typhoon(tooslow) and cape dory 22(too slow)and two J22's(alittle to unstable to singlehand)....I need new ideas...thanks.

 

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6 hours ago, bill4 said:

Dex Sawash is a much better resource on Force 5 prices. But it seems pretty fair to me.

East coast, $1500USD should get you fully refurbed boat with a dolly.

 

Edit-just looked at the ad up there^... that boat looks sort of ok but would expect a lot of new blingy deck gear and perfect sail for $2500. You can buy a dirty derelict for less than $500 and throw $300 at nautos-usa.com for 10 new camcleats a set of blocks and a traveler. Another $200 to Intensity for a sail, hiking strap and long tiller extension. Old F5 decks/hulls don't turn to mush as badly as a Laser (but you do have to check them)

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On 2/4/2019 at 10:21 PM, Suilven said:

SailMoore1, thanks.  A used Laser might be the ticket.

I acquired 4 Lasers 2 years ago (to add hydrofoils also teach sailing to newbies & kid relatives). 2 were free, $23, and $60 for the worst one from a yacht club. After learning Laser epoxy repair :D, I found that stock class-legal rigging is really crap. Changed to old Hobie blocks & light modern lines, bought cheap class-illegal sails with actual shape to foil with.  But the kids learned just fine.  Wet suit is absolutely required for cold water.  

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Boat prices are all over the place and I would say that Force 5 is on the pricey end of the scale. 

A couple have sold around here in the $500-$1000 range in the last year. Once you factor in exchange rate taxes,registration, ferry, gas, etc you are in $4000cdn range for that boat.

Patience enjoy the snow, you'll find something more reasonable locally in the spring.

 

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