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Decisions, Decisions. Opinions Requested.


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What Ajax said.

Skateaway is the in a video at the start of the Cool trimaran for sale- Not mine! 

We had a nice long chat today and he’s itching to get the boat out for a speed run. He’s invited me and twinbro out to show us what a blast it is and what we can look for in updating the rig and sailplan for  Volantis since he’s an engineer and has worked out the maths that make for a strong and powerful rig that doesn’t break the boat in half

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Well, to make a long story short I bought the Seafarer today. After looking at the C&C 24 and knowing that it would probably take a lot of money or more sweat equity than I was willing to put into

OK...No time to edit.  This shall be a stream of consciousness post>>>     There are a ton of $5000 boats but the necessary maintenance on those boats usually is double that am

Don't go below wearing anything plaid - there might be an explosion!

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53 minutes ago, woahboy said:

The good ones are kind of pricey. But if they help you stretch the life of your batteries could be a smart investment. 

In my opinion, it's the first thing anyone should do for their electrical system if they plan on using the boat for more than a daysailer.  Without it, it's literally just a guessing game on what you need to do to achieve your goals.  Do you need solar at all?  Is the engine's alternator charging the house battery up all the way? Is the house bank big enough? How much power does gismo 'X' use?  When will I run out of juice?  Without the information it's impossible to know what your energy consumption is, or how much charging you are putting in, or when you might run out.  For a daysailer that gets shore power every evening, it's not a problem.

If you use the boat regularly for extended trips, the data allows you to make good decisions on equipment and usage.  I find most people to be mystified by their electrical system because quite literally you just can't see the electricity, you can't tell when it's leaking and you can't tell how much there is left or how well the batteries are actually holding power, or really anything without measuring it.

The good monitors do a lot of math for you and with a little experience using it, you'll get to know your system, know what to expect and have an idea of what upgrade you might want to make if it isn't meeting your needs.

It can also help you trim consumption, as you find that your 'Y' gismo is using a lot of power, or someone has left a charger plugged in that is taking amps without doing anything.  You'll see that some of the cheap chargers are horribly wasteful for phones, tablets, etc...

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1 minute ago, sbman said:

In my opinion, it's the first thing anyone should do for their electrical system if they plan on using the boat for more than a daysailer.  Without it, it's literally just a guessing game on what you need to do to achieve your goals.  Do you need solar at all?  Is the engine's alternator charging the house battery up all the way? Is the house bank big enough? How much power does gismo 'X' use?  When will I run out of juice?  Without the information it's impossible to know what your energy consumption is, or how much charging you are putting in, or when you might run out.  For a daysailer that gets shore power every evening, it's not a problem.

If you use the boat regularly for extended trips, the data allows you to make good decisions on equipment and usage.  I find most people to be mystified by their electrical system because quite literally you just can't see the electricity, you can't tell when it's leaking and you can't tell how much there is left or how well the batteries are actually holding power, or really anything without measuring it.

The good monitors do a lot of math for you and with a little experience using it, you'll get to know your system, know what to expect and have an idea of what upgrade you might want to make if it isn't meeting your needs.

It can also help you trim consumption, as you find that your 'Y' gismo is using a lot of power, or someone has left a charger plugged in that is taking amps without doing anything.  You'll see that some of the cheap chargers are horribly wasteful for phones, tablets, etc...

What he said.

I had no idea my stock alternator was doing such a wretched job until I put in a battery monitor. That monitor cost me a lot of money upgrading my alternator and regulator.

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2 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

What he said.

I had no idea my stock alternator was doing such a wretched job until I put in a battery monitor. That monitor cost me a lot of money upgrading my alternator and regulator.

That's not surprising. Automotive style, stock alternators are horrible at charging house batteries. Their charge profile is set to put out a lot of amps for a couple of minutes, then taper down to something safe and easy on the battery/system which usually amounts to a trickle charge.  Balmar makes some excellent external regulators that can control most any brand of externally regulated alternator and do multi-stage profile based charging, drastically improving charge rates.  You have to be careful not to overheat your alternator though and their regulators can be setup with a temperature probe for the alternator to protect it as well as settings to limit output if your belt system can't handle it.  I put a dual 200A alternator system on a trawler with Balmar regulators and their Centerfielder going into some Northstar AGM batteries.  Have seen 180 amps out of each alternator continuous with that setup using large frame brushless alternators.  2.5kW of battery charging per diesel engine.

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34 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

What Ajax said.

Skateaway is the in a video at the start of the Cool trimaran for sale- Not mine! 

We had a nice long chat today and he’s itching to get the boat out for a speed run. He’s invited me and twinbro out to show us what a blast it is and what we can look for in updating the rig and sailplan for  Volantis since he’s an engineer and has worked out the maths that make for a strong and powerful rig that doesn’t break the boat in half

See, good things come to good people. I bet you and twinbro are stoked. Video or it didn’t happen :D

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3 minutes ago, sbman said:

That's not surprising. Automotive style, stock alternators are horrible at charging house batteries. Their charge profile is set to put out a lot of amps for a couple of minutes, then taper down to something safe and easy on the battery/system which usually amounts to a trickle charge.  Balmar makes some excellent external regulators that can control most any brand of externally regulated alternator and do multi-stage profile based charging, drastically improving charge rates.  You have to be careful not to overheat your alternator though and their regulators can be setup with a temperature probe for the alternator to protect it as well as settings to limit output if your belt system can't handle it.  I put a dual 200A alternator system on a trawler with Balmar regulators and their Centerfielder going into some Northstar AGM batteries.  Have seen 180 amps out of each alternator continuous with that setup using large frame brushless alternators.  2.5kW of battery charging per diesel engine.

 My boat doesn’t have an inboard. Never had one. We will rely on shore power charging and I would like to use solar when off of the dock, or on the hook. I am thinking maybe a 100 watt panel.  Mind you we’re not ona very big lake so the cruises won’t be very long. If you have google earth or maps look up Eagle Mountain Lake, it’s in North Texas. But it is a very nice lake. Thanks again for all of your input. Keep the suggestions coming. After all of this is sorted I’d like to work on having freshwater water on the boat. The aforementioned A/C unit was put in its place. Bladder or hard tank?

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26 minutes ago, woahboy said:

 My boat doesn’t have an inboard. Never had one. We will rely on shore power charging and I would like to use solar when off of the dock, or on the hook. I am thinking maybe a 100 watt panel.  Mind you we’re not ona very big lake so the cruises won’t be very long. If you have google earth or maps look up Eagle Mountain Lake, it’s in North Texas. But it is a very nice lake. Thanks again for all of your input. Keep the suggestions coming. After all of this is sorted I’d like to work on having freshwater water on the boat. The aforementioned A/C unit was put in its place. Bladder or hard tank?

A pair of group 27 deep cycles run's LED lights, a freshwater pump and a cell phone charger used daily for a couple of days OK, probably wouldn't even need solar for just a couple of days.  Fans tend to eat up power faster than any of the above.  A tablet or phone uses quite a bit of power charging at 3 amps or so per hour of charging time.  The pair of group 27's have 100 amps available for use (200 A total storage).   A 100 watt panel with an MPPT controller would keep up with that kind of usage just fine.  A lot of outboards have a battery charge output but it's hardly worth hooking up on a sailboat.  Add any kind of a continuous load like a 12V fridge/cooler and you may need more than 100W of solar to keep up.

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We would like to have a 12v small fridge.  Just saw a couple on amazon. They appear to draw 65 - 70 watts.

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23 minutes ago, woahboy said:

We would like to have a 12v small fridge.  Just saw a couple on amazon. They appear to draw 65 - 70 watts.

For continuous loads, you have to look at it over time.  A 100W solar panel will put out something less than 100W depending on orientation, cloud cover, shading, etc.. and will only do so for certain hours of the day, starting slowly in the morning as the sun rises and peaking as the sun gets higher, then tapering into the afternoon and evening. 

The fridge will draw the current 24 hours per day fairly consistently.  Outside air temp will help as it gets cooler, but not a whole lot.  A 65 watt fridge running 30% of the time (cycling) would use about 20W per hour 1.6Amps per hour which is typical in my experience for a cooler style, motor compressor fridge like an Engel or ARB. In a 24 hour period will it will use nearly 40 amps total (480 Watts), 1/2 of the power in a group 27 deep cycle and reach the 50% cutoff that really should be respected if you want your batteries to have a good service life.

100W of solar might put a total of 500-700 watts into the system in a 24 hour period which comes really close to the 40 amps of power the fridge used and put it back in. However, this assumes the battery has the capacity available to accept that power during the peak times. If the battery gets full, the rest of the solar power is thrown away but the fridge still draws all night.  This all varies depending on your particular installation as well.

It gets complicated and all the spreadsheets and estimates and calculations can't tell the full story. Trying it and measuring to see if it's working and where to make improvements is about the only way.  From what I've seen on average you usually can get by with 150-200W of solar in good conditions for a cooler sized fridge along with LED lights and other basics as long as you are power conscious and turn things off when you don't need them.  If you live in a cloudy area or try to use it in winter you might need more.

What size and type of batteries does the boat have now?

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I know they are wet cells but that’s all. Will look this weekend. Thanks again SB.

Jim

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On 3/20/2019 at 3:44 AM, Little Wood Boats said:

Are you sure of this?  I did a quick google search for conversions and found 16 oz of liquid propane is 8.6 cubic feet of gas. 

For Butane it seems 16 oz liquid is .96 cubic feet of gas.

Well, I havent actually done the math, but the LEL of Butane is 1.6% and the UEL is 8.2%. That means the fuel air mixture must be between 1.6 and 8.2%. Anything above or below that is not explosive.  What is the interior volume of a boat?

The point is, it is a very small amount of gas in the container, so not a huge concern, at least not in my mind!

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2 hours ago, woahboy said:

We would like to have a 12v small fridge.  Just saw a couple on amazon. They appear to draw 65 - 70 watts.

Don't get too carried away! Refrigeration is going to add quite a bit of load on your battery bank. Our old 30' boat had very limited battery power which is why I never installed refrigeration. We got by just fine using ice blocks for years.

The more systems you add to the boat the more you have to upgrade your electrical system. It is a vicious cycle! There is definitely something to be said for keeping things simple, especially when you are just starting out!

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Thanks Jabber, I do agree. Luckily I can get to the cooler and add some more insulation. I know I keep saying this but not having the inboard will make it a lot easier to access below the cockpit through the cockpit lazzerettes.

Jim

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1 minute ago, woahboy said:

Thanks Jabber, I do agree. Luckily I can get to the cooler and add some more insulation. I know I keep saying this but not having the inboard will make it a lot easier to access below the cockpit through the cockpit lazzerettes.

Jim

Not having an inboard will also avoid having waste engine heat melt stuff in your icebox. The icebox in my Pearson 30 was exposed to the engine space on one side. The insulation was thin and primitive. Definitely add more insulation to your icebox. Although the icebox on my Tartan is better than the old boat, I should still beef it up.

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3 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Not having an inboard will also avoid having waste engine heat melt stuff in your icebox. The icebox in my Pearson 30 was exposed to the engine space on one side. The insulation was thin and primitive. Definitely add more insulation to your icebox. Although the icebox on my Tartan is better than the old boat, I should still beef it up.

Thanks Ajax. Good advice. How goes the spring time getting the boat ready?

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10 minutes ago, woahboy said:

Thanks Ajax. Good advice. How goes the spring time getting the boat ready?

It's more or less ready. I need to change the engine oil and transmission fluid.

I'm really just waiting on the weather. We got 2 inches of rain today and it'll be blustery, possibly gale force this weekend. Temps range from low 30's to mid 50's. We're close, but not quite there yet.

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It’s in the 70’s here. Looking forward to a good weekend.

Jim

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On 3/21/2019 at 10:17 PM, Grith said:

Hi Jim Great thread. 

Thank You my new friend. Hope all goes well down under.

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Here I go again with random questions. My Seafarer 26 being built the first year of production is decked out in hideous Formica everywhere in the cabin. If I were to start replacing with veneered teak would it have to be marine grade? Going to start simple like the counter top, storage above the berths etc. Then it might be nice to replace the bulkheads as well. Just curious. Thank you all again for all of your useful opinions and suggestions.

Jim

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1 hour ago, woahboy said:

Here I go again with random questions. My Seafarer 26 being built the first year of production is decked out in hideous Formica everywhere in the cabin. If I were to start replacing with veneered teak would it have to be marine grade? Going to start simple like the counter top, storage above the berths etc. Then it might be nice to replace the bulkheads as well. Just curious. Thank you all again for all of your useful opinions and suggestions.

Jim

I'd do nothing for at least a year.   At that point you will have a better idea on what you like and don't like, and if you want to keep the boat for the long term.

Whatever changes you make to the boat the return on investment when you sell it will be pennies on the dollar.

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57 minutes ago, slap said:

I'd do nothing for at least a year.   At that point you will have a better idea on what you like and don't like, and if you want to keep the boat for the long term.

Whatever changes you make to the boat the return on investment when you sell it will be pennies on the dollar.

This man is wise, heed his words. Don't let little cosmetics detract from your enjoyment.

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1 hour ago, slap said:

I'd do nothing for at least a year.   At that point you will have a better idea on what you like and don't like, and if you want to keep the boat for the long term.

Whatever changes you make to the boat the return on investment when you sell it will be pennies on the dollar.

Thank You, Slap. Sounds like a plan to me. Thank you too Ajax.

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Good news, good news. I must be living right. Just found out that the majority of the deck is solid glass, no wood core. Cored parts are the sliding hatch and the cockpit lazerettes. WooooHooo. Could be why she’s as heavy as she is.

Cheers

Jim

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I can also get a virtualy new Sailrite sewing machine thrown in for an extra $500. Worth it? And is there a decent alternative to Sunbrella cloth? That stuff is pricey.

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1 minute ago, Ajax said:

I'll say yes. The sewing machine can service sails on any boat that you own in the future, not just this one. I'd love to have one.

Thank you as always, @Ajax

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Any recommendations on bilge pump brand? Mine is looking rather old and tired.

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Hi Bull,

I have a few that I need to rotate. Will post them soon. 

Jim

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4 hours ago, sbman said:

I'm a fan of the Rule brand pumps.  You can get them with integrated float switches or without.

@sbman What would be a good GPH for a 26’r that is pretty dry

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I get @SpongeDeckSquareFoil Point. No cutlass bearing to leak. There is a small leak in a port light that I plan to reseal with some butyl tape. I guess it’s more of a “it’s a nice thing to have if you ever need it”. I’m going to climb below the cockpit this week to see if there is any ingress back there. It does have a stern rail. Also look at the bow pulpit ,ousting so.

Thanks @sbman for the tip on the pump itself. This is certainly a great place to get some great advice.

Jim

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On 3/24/2019 at 12:57 AM, woahboy said:

Here I go again with random questions. My Seafarer 26 being built the first year of production is decked out in hideous Formica everywhere in the cabin. If I were to start replacing with veneered teak would it have to be marine grade? Going to start simple like the counter top, storage above the berths etc. Then it might be nice to replace the bulkheads as well. Just curious. Thank you all again for all of your useful opinions and suggestions.

Jim

If the Formica isn’t chipped and cracked, you might want to consider roughing it up with sandpaper and a couple of coats of white two pot epoxy primer.

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It looks like your boat has a sink, and most likely cockpit drains, so even though it has an outboard it must also have at least one seacock and another through-hull. If it has a marine head add two more. All this means a good bilge pump is cheap insurance. Since you have an old one the hose and wires should be there so gettng a good new one is an easy decision.

Keep in mind you can reduce the load on a fridge by adding some blue-ice and freezing foods. A frozen block of lasagne makes a good day two or three meal and may reduce your fridge loads enough to make due with a small panel. We also freeze flexible water bladders and drink them as they melt. The 2L platypus ones work well and collapse as you use them to save space.

Don't be too quick to mess with your formica. It is impervious to almost all abuse and never absorbs water. I liken it to brick or concrete, it may not look up to date, but as soon as you fuss with it you have converted a zero maintenance surface into something that will require work forever afterwords. I bet after a few months you do not even notice it.

 

 

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@steele. Now I know where the water is from. The A/C - Heater unit is an evaporative cooler that needs water running to operate. That is where it is coming from, most likely. As for cooling all it has is an insulated box. I am sure that if measured the amount of water in the bilgeis less that .75 of an inch. And this model has an encapsulated keel so it has none of those pesky keel bolts to be concerned with.  Thank You.

Jim

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5 hours ago, olaf hart said:

If the Formica isn’t chipped and cracked, you might want to consider roughing it up with sandpaper and a couple of coats of white two pot epoxy primer.

@olaf hart. Thank You. Good points and you’ve just saved me time and money.

Jim

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What can one put in the bilge to keep it from getting slimey and smelly?

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Thank you for specifying.... couldn’t find the purple font.

Jim

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3 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Keep in mind that teak plywood is pretty expensive and paint is pretty cheap.

I’ve done a few replacements myself...

@Sail4beer. That’s what I was thinking. Perhaps I’ll think of it as retro chic. Maybe it will become a wanted thing in the future. 

Thank You

Jim

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Do I have to? I never liked them very much. But no disco or polyester on my boat. I was one of the Disco Sucks minions.

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3 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

A shot glass of bleach.  For the boat, not you.

- Stumbling

Not if you have stainless keel bolts down there.

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42 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Not if you have stainless keel bolts down there.

@SloopJonB I know I am a Newb and ask dumb questions at times. But does an encapsulated keel have keel bolts? Because if my boat does there really isn't anyway to inspect them. There is one inspection port on the cabin sole.

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Probably not, but you can open the bilge boards and look.  If you see large nuts (on your size boat they would probably take about a 7/8" or 1" wrench) then you have keel bolts, if not then you don't.

 

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14 minutes ago, Alex W said:

Probably not, but you can open the bilge boards and look.  If you see large nuts (on your size boat they would probably take about a 7/8" or 1" wrench) then you have keel bolts, if not then you don't.

 

@Alex WAs I stated above there is only one small inspection port in the cabin sole. Big enough to fit the bilge pump through. I will be out there tomorrow and will take a few photos to show you what I am talking about. Here's a link to a more descriptive layout. 
http://www.seafarer-research-center.com/images/cruisingracing0.jpg
Mine is an earlier model so it doesn't have all of the teak mentioned. Perhaps lower maintenance? 
And exterior details.
http://www.seafarer-research-center.com/images/seafarer26-exterior0.jpg
And some words of wisdom about it. Could just be marketing.
https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_155422062490122&key=7504c2fed2ee6f75a22dfbd5202aa0d6&libId=jtzyex3m0100qbq7000DAhfzpj946&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sailnet.com%2Fforums%2Fboat-reviews%2F58565-seafarer-26-a-print.html&v=1&opt=true&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cruisersforum.com%2Fforums%2Ff47%2Fseafarer-26-words-of-wisdom-sought-7043.html&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F&title=SailNet Community - Seafarer 26&txt=Seafarer 26%3A Words of Wisdom Sought - Cruisers %26amp%3B Sailing Forums

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Re your bilge pump, there are several dif hoses sizes, best to match what your thruhull barb is unless you want to upgrade that too.

Nice pics

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28 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

Great Intelligence™

Please elaborate. No keel bolts or no bleach?

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5 hours ago, woahboy said:

@SloopJonB I know I am a Newb and ask dumb questions at times. But does an encapsulated keel have keel bolts? Because if my boat does there really isn't anyway to inspect them. There is one inspection port on the cabin sole.

An encapsulated keel - that is one where the keel shape is moulded as part of the hull - does not have bolts. It will either be a "slug" that is cast to fit and dropped in place or it will be scrap of some sort poured in place and set with resin or concrete.

Some people lay fiberglass over a bolted on fin and call it "encapsulated" but it isn't, it's just coated with glass.

Just look in your bilge and see if there are any studs with nuts protruding through the middle of the bottom over the keel - if not you have an encapsulated keel and no worries. Your attachments say "Fin molded integrally with hull" - that, as well as no access through the sole seem to indicate an encapsulated keel.

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@SloopJonB. No bolts so I am good to go. Thank you. Are there minuses to having an encapsulated keel on a cruiser?

Cheers

Jim

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1 hour ago, woahboy said:

@SloopJonB. No bolts so I am good to go. Thank you. Are there minuses to having an encapsulated keel on a cruiser?

Cheers

Jim

If you do hit something, there is a possibility that the encapsulation might crack/fail, letting water into the keel void. Drying out and fixing that can be nasty. Lead is a little more forgiving than fiberglass wrt impact, but then you have to worry about keel bolts and leveraging the keel stub up into the canoe body.

A cast lead bolt-on keel can also be much skinnier than an encapsulated keel, providing a better foil.

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6 hours ago, Ishmael said:

If you do hit something, there is a possibility that the encapsulation might crack/fail, letting water into the keel void. Drying out and fixing that can be nasty. Lead is a little more forgiving than fiberglass wrt impact, but then you have to worry about keel bolts and leveraging the keel stub up into the canoe body.

A cast lead bolt-on keel can also be much skinnier than an encapsulated keel, providing a better foil.

Also, encapsulated ballast not always lead, so, if you hit something, and salt water gets into the iron ballast, then you have a nasty rusty mess hidden inside the encapsulate glass.  Everything is a trade. No one "right" answer...

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Once again thank you for your replies. 

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I'm a big fan of encapsulated ballast but as the others have said- a hard grounding will make for a difficult and messy repair. To me, the tradeoff was worth not having to sweat rotting keel bolts.

Regarding those Rule pumps with the integrated water level switch:  In the customer reviews, they often get a bad rap. The reason for this, is because they are polarity sensitive. The instructions CLEARLY state to wire them correctly or they will eventually fail. The failure mode is that they'll work fine for up to several months and then one day, you'll come down to the boat and find a dead battery because the level switch fails permanently in the "run" position. The pump is junk at that point.

Most people who rant on these pumps in the customer reviews have wired them up backwards.

If the boat is going to live on a mooring, I suggest a small, portable "maintenance" solar panel for the battery and an automated bilge pump to keep up with rain and minor leaks. 500-1000 gph should be plenty. If you're curious to know if the pump is activating while you're away, Rule sells a bilge pump "counter" that logs the number of cycles.

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@Ajax, I know you single hand a lot. What type of mainsail reefing system do you use? I found this. Is this company any good? http://www.bartonmarine.com/tech-info-sail_handling-Fitting_Instructions_For_Slab_Reefing_Kit_41484.asp

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1 hour ago, woahboy said:

@Ajax, I know you single hand a lot. What type of mainsail reefing system do you use? I found this. Is this company any good? http://www.bartonmarine.com/tech-info-sail_handling-Fitting_Instructions_For_Slab_Reefing_Kit_41484.asp

Barton is primarily a small-boat supplier, and their gear is not quite up to the sophistication or quality of Harken. You don't need a kit, I'm sure we can tell you exactly what you need based on some simple measurements.

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1 hour ago, woahboy said:

@Ajax, I know you single hand a lot. What type of mainsail reefing system do you use? I found this. Is this company any good? http://www.bartonmarine.com/tech-info-sail_handling-Fitting_Instructions_For_Slab_Reefing_Kit_41484.asp

Yep, that's how I do it, minus the fancy track on the boom. I just tie running bowlines on the boom with the tails of the clew reef lines.  Running bowlines allow the loop of line to slide along the boom much as the cars on the fancy track do.

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4 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Barton is primarily a small-boat supplier, and their gear is not quite up to the sophistication or quality of Harken. You don't need a kit, I'm sure we can tell you exactly what you need based on some simple measurements.

 @Ajax @Ishmael. Heading out to the boat today. What measurements would you like?

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1 minute ago, Ajax said:

Yep, that's how I do it, minus the fancy track on the boom. I just tie running bowlines on the boom with the tails of the clew reef lines.  Running bowlines allow the loop of line to slide along the boom much as the cars on the fancy track do.

That works if you have a loose-footed main. If your main has a foot rope then you need another option. Our last main had a small grommet for each reef point in the sail just above the foot rope, directly down from the reef point. That allowed the running bowline and eliminated some hardware.

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Just now, woahboy said:

 @Ajax @Ishmael. Heading out to the boat today. What measurements would you like?

Boom length, mainsail area. If you want to run reef lines back to the cockpit, then you will need more hardware.

The Barton illustration is for quite a small boat, there is no mechanism for tensioning the leech reef point beyond the Armstrong method. A 26-footer should have some means of getting the foot board-flat, otherwise you end up with a bag of sail at the bottom.

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2 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Boom length, mainsail area. If you want to run reef lines back to the cockpit, then you will need more hardware.

The Barton illustration is for quite a small boat, there is no mechanism for tensioning the leech reef point beyond the Armstrong method. A 26-footer should have some means of getting the foot board-flat, otherwise you end up with a bag of sail at the bottom.

@Ishmael @Ajax. Here is the info from sailboatdata if it’s to be trusted. 

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/seafarer-26

Thank You Guys

Jim

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10 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

That works if you have a loose-footed main. If your main has a foot rope then you need another option. Our last main had a small grommet for each reef point in the sail just above the foot rope, directly down from the reef point. That allowed the running bowline and eliminated some hardware.

Hm. My main is footed to the boom via slugs and a track, but it seems to work ok. (I do plan on going loose footed when I replace the main.)

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One more question. At least for the next 20 minutes. I want to mount a winch on the deck house for halyards. Any recommendations?

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Just now, Ajax said:

Hm. My main is footed to the boom via slugs and a track, but it seems to work ok. (I do plan on going loose footed when I replace the main.)

What are the benefits of a loose footed main?

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21 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Hm. My main is footed to the boom via slugs and a track, but it seems to work ok. (I do plan on going loose footed when I replace the main.)

What do you use for outhaul tension when you reef? It may be the reefing lines tied around the boom bind up on the foot slugs rather than slide forward. The benfit of the track (which I had on my T30) is you can adjust the clew aft for outhaul effect as the clew reefing line is tightened. For a boat WB's size a short track and single sliding block should be pretty inexpensive. You could use a single attachment point with a bail, but it has to be in the right spot from day one, and if the sail stretches with age or you get a new main you might need to re-do it.

WB, this is a good resource for good quailty gear, https://www.garhauermarine.com. You may already know about them, their stuff is heavy so not a favorite of racers, but very strong at a low price point with good customer service.

 

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1 minute ago, steele said:

What do you use for outhaul tension when you reef? It may be the reefing lines tied around the boom bind up on the foot slugs rather than slide forward. The benfit of the track (which I had on my T30) is you can adjust the clew aft for outhaul effect as the clew reefing line is tightened. For a boat WB's size a short track and single sliding block should be pretty inexpensive. You could use a single attachment point with a bail, but it has to be in the right spot from day one, and if the sail stretches with age or you get a new main you might need to re-do it.

 

Ah, whoops!  My method is not *exactly* like WB's sketch. I missed the critical difference.

My reefing lines tie off at the boom, go up through the cringle, then down to sheaves in the end of my boom (along with the regular outhaul sheave) and run to the goose neck (inside the boom), where they exit the boom. When you haul in the clew reef lines, they tug aft as an outhaul as they feed into the sheaves at the end of the boom.

This isn't single line reefing, I don't have a shuttle block in the boom, and I have to deal with the tack cringle separately.

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11 minutes ago, steele said:

What do you use for outhaul tension when you reef? It may be the reefing lines tied around the boom bind up on the foot slugs rather than slide forward. The benfit of the track (which I had on my T30) is you can adjust the clew aft for outhaul effect as the clew reefing line is tightened. For a boat WB's size a short track and single sliding block should be pretty inexpensive. You could use a single attachment point with a bail, but it has to be in the right spot from day one, and if the sail stretches with age or you get a new main you might need to re-do it.

WB, this is a good resource for good quailty gear, https://www.garhauermarine.com. You may already know about them, their stuff is heavy so not a favorite of racers, but very strong at a low price point with good customer service.

 

@steele. Thank You for the garhauer link. Looks to have very reasonable prices.

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Hm. My main is footed to the boom via slugs and a track, but it seems to work ok. (I do plan on going loose footed when I replace the main.)

My last main had a full foot rope running in a boom slot, not slugs. Slugs let you do that.

1 hour ago, woahboy said:

What are the benefits of a loose footed main?

Much less friction on the outhaul, no crippling of the sail shape at the foot, and you can tie stuff around the boom wherever you want. Also rain drips land on the crew instead of running back and dripping on the skipper.

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Well, took her out for the first time today. Had a blast, taking it easy under main. Went to raise the jib and lost the screw in pin on the shackle, oh well main  alone was fun. Bit need to find a better outboard bracket that goes up and down easily. It’s the original bracket from 1977, there has to be better ones available. ,asking a list of things that need improving. Definitely going to buy a new main. There are two with the boat. The original main is awful, the other is a modified J22 main that is in fairly good condition, feels crisp but it just didn’t look right. As per Ish’s comments on the loose footed main I may go that direction. Would like to buy from a local shop so time to look around. The boat has lazy jacks but they are home made and don’t look right either.  Sorry, no photos but it did happen. Thanks again for all of the assistance with this project.

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For a hanked on jib I'd suggest a snap shackle rather than a screw in pin shackle. As you found out, a boat deck is not the best place to be handling small, loose bits of hardware. Besides the benefit of captive parts, the snap shackle also opens or closes quickly so you can finish the task at hand.

Screw pin shackles are good for applications where you don't need to release the shackle on a regular basis.

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1 hour ago, SpongeDeckSquareFoil said:

For a hanked on jib I'd suggest a snap shackle rather than a screw in pin shackle. As you found out, a boat deck is not the best place to be handling small, loose bits of hardware. Besides the benefit of captive parts, the snap shackle also opens or closes quickly so you can finish the task at hand.

Screw pin shackles are good for applications where you don't need to release the shackle on a regular basis.

Thanks Sponge. I was thinking the same thing. Also going to get rid of the jib cover that’s on the foredeck. It’s a pain. Next project is to put lines on the traveler. Don’t care much for the little stops you have to fiddle with.

Jim

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And another opinion needed. The boat cam with a Gemini compass that I am sure is original to the boat (42 yrs old). It is need of repair, it's lost a lot of the fluid in it and it could use a cleaning. The boat did come with an uninstalled package or Raymarine gear that I plan to install in the future. Would it be worth getting the compass repaired? Any rec's on would do a good job?

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5 minutes ago, woahboy said:

And another opinion needed. The boat cam with a Gemini compass that I am sure is original to the boat (42 yrs old). It is need of repair, it's lost a lot of the fluid in it and it could use a cleaning. The boat did come with an uninstalled package or Raymarine gear that I plan to install in the future. Would it be worth getting the compass repaired? Any rec's on would do a good job?

https://www.vikingcompass.com/compassrepair.html

I bought the parts from them to do the repair myself, no problems.

Absolutely you need a compass that doesn't need electricity to work.

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^^ Thank You, Ish. And no electricity is why I was wanting to get it repaired. Although I am on an inland lake in Texas that is only 8,700 acres so no need for navigation. Would just be nice to have. 

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I want to mount a cabin top winch for halyards, reefing lines, and main Cunningham. If you’ve read this thread it’s a 26’r from 1977 so the main isn’t all that big but I do have a 150 headsail. What size winch would you recommend?

Jim

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Like, a Lewmar 8, single speed. Nothing big.  Maybe even a 6.  For halyard, I understand that but the cunningham can just be some 1/4" line run through a block on deck, to a cleat on the cabin top. A winch would be overkill for that, in my opinion.  On my 33 footer, I use a pair of small, triple blocks (one with a cam cleat) for mechanical advantage.

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