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Deal Killers?


Jules

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3 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

Based on following this thread, the only thing I'd be worried about is that soft spot on the deck. If you are a luthier and woodworker, I'd imagine that you have the meticulous patience to fix it and the interior woodwork yourself.

My patience is like a bouncing ball.  Sometimes I have the patience of a 4 year old.  But it's good to feel young again.

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5 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

So between Dec 2018 and March 2019 someone stripped a bunch of stuff off the boat including the bilge pump and let it fill up with oil and who knows what????

The parts of this story are not adding up to a coherent whole IMHO.

Yeah, that's the missing codex.  But I think the strip down was done prior to selling to the present owner.  I was told the previous owner, who docks his Hatteras about four slips down, is doing a refit on his Hatteras.  Something tells me he stripped the CS33 of everything he felt had value planning to use it on the new boat.  It's like an archeological dig.

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Based on the photos and a good mechanic report i would go for it. But yes I would spend a good couple of  hard days in the bilge. Just get rid of those schedule 80 90's for sanity. 

A good find. Still don't understand what equipment was ripped out. And yes the story doesn't add up - but I don't believe 90% of the stories I am told anyway.

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37 minutes ago, Jules said:

Yeah, that's the missing codex.  But I think the strip down was done prior to selling to the present owner.  I was told the previous owner, who docks his Hatteras about four slips down, is doing a refit on his Hatteras.  Something tells me he stripped the CS33 of everything he felt had value planning to use it on the new boat.  It's like an archeological dig.

Might be telling you to suck eggs, but if that did happen (especially electrical / electronics), grab a multi-meter, alligator clips and some long 14 gage wire and re-identify wire runs end to end, unless by some miracle inidividual cables are labelled regularly.

On mine the cable quality is ok but it is a rats nest. I'm isolating all of it first and reactivating one by one. Cant tell how many hands have been involved but it has been a lot. 

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Just as a point of interest, a dock neighbour for years had a CS33 with the Bukh diesel. He hated that diesel and changed it out for a Beta about six months before deciding to be a trawler owner instead. 

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Some dreams cost more than others. I do believe he likes this boat very much. Anything wrong with giving @Jules some encouragement. Go for it Jules if you’ve the time and money.

Jim

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I think Jules wants to do this project.  It's one I wouldn't want to take on...

One final word though Jules....

 

Don't do THIS to your CS 33 if  #$$$Matter 

 

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The engine looks like a Bukh DV 20 maybe from what I can see. The gear box oil on these is the  same grade as the lubrication oil (so no ATF) if that helps.

These engines will really calcify up in the water jacket if not used which makes them overheat.

Treat  the water jacket with http://www.rydlymemarine.com/ descaler to clear any blockages out, rebuild the water pump and this engine will go forever.

Learn how to do the anode yourself and change it every 6 mths

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On 3/19/2019 at 11:43 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

I always like the "for sale with new diesel for $15,000" when it cost them $15,000 to have the engine installed. THAT is the one to buy, essentially getting a free boat with the engine B)

Had more or less exactly that in the mid 2000's at the brokerage where I worked.

Endeavour 32 from the late 70's and we had the receipts showing installation of the brand new Yanmar complete with warranty from a reputable shop.

The asking price was the price of the engine: $16k. I showed that damn thing a number of times. I did try to warn people.

The problem was, they had modified it to continue cruising into old age and the main one was a YUUUUGE manual windlass on the foredeck (and pretty much ruining the v-berth, which was storage.) There were others, including enough batteries/electrical spectacle to make it float low and list.

No one wanted to unmodify it. I think it finally sold for $12k, IIRC.

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5 hours ago, C28 said:

The engine looks like a Bukh DV 20 maybe from what I can see. The gear box oil on these is the  same grade as the lubrication oil (so no ATF) if that helps.

These engines will really calcify up in the water jacket if not used which makes them overheat.

Treat  the water jacket with http://www.rydlymemarine.com/ descaler to clear any blockages out, rebuild the water pump and this engine will go forever.

Learn how to do the anode yourself and change it every 6 mths

The owner's notebook, which looks like it goes back to the original owner, had manuals on both the DV20 and DV24.  I asked the mechanic to verify which one it is and he said DV24.  But he also admitted this was the first Bukh he's seen.  The mechanic also recommended a fresh water flush valve be installed.  If we buy, one will be installed.

10 hours ago, Veeger said:

I think Jules wants to do this project.  It's one I wouldn't want to take on...

One final word though Jules....

Don't do THIS to your CS 33 if  #$$$Matter

My first time on a sailboat was 1970.  I instantly fell in love.  For the next 30 years I did the OPB thing and got in a lot of sailing, and did a lot of free work as payment for being able to sail.  But it's been almost 20 years since that time and I miss it terribly.  I have a couple of friends with sailboats here but one prefers going solo and the other has a dock queen he's afraid to take out.  We call it a museum.  So yes, I'm ready to jump back in, however foolish that decision may be.

As for #$$$Matter, funds are limited so that will keep me from going overboard.  I think...

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

The owner's notebook, which looks like it goes back to the original owner, had manuals on both the DV20 and DV24.  I asked the mechanic to verify which one it is and he said DV24.  But he also admitted this was the first Bukh he's seen.  The mechanic also recommended a fresh water flush valve be installed.  If we buy, one will be installed.

My first time on a sailboat was 1970.  I instantly fell in love.  For the next 30 years I did the OPB thing and got in a lot of sailing, and did a lot of free work as payment for being able to sail.  But it's been almost 20 years since that time and I miss it terribly.  I have a couple of friends with sailboats here but one prefers going solo and the other has a dock queen he's afraid to take out.  We call it a museum.  So yes, I'm ready to jump back in, however foolish that decision may be.

As for #$$$Matter, funds are limited so that will keep me from going overboard.  I think...

I see you build guitars. That’s a cool thing.

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3 hours ago, woahboy said:

I see you build guitars. That’s a cool thing.

Yeah, but I suck at playing them.  I recently finished my first acoustic.  I'm calling it El Kabong.  And for good reason.

As I'm walking through my workshops I see wood chips flying in the future.  Not to build boring kitchen cabinets or tables or guitars I can't play but something I love.  

Right now I've got Captain Ron on one shoulder and some geeky CPA on the other.  Both are strongly advising me.  I know the CPA is probably right but I want to sit on my boat drinking rum with Cap'n Ron and let the wind take me away. 

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58 minutes ago, Jules said:

Yeah, but I suck at playing them.  I recently finished my first acoustic.  I'm calling it El Kabong.  And for good reason.

As I'm walking through my workshops I see wood chips flying in the future.  Not to build boring kitchen cabinets or tables or guitars I can't play but something I love.  

Right now I've got Captain Ron on one shoulder and some geeky CPA on the other.  Both are strongly advising me.  I know the CPA is probably right but I want to sit on my boat drinking rum with Cap'n Ron and let the wind take me away. 

To me it sounds live you’ve get your head on straight and you’re pretty handy to boot. You did you’ve had a survey done? If not and you do and it comes out good I’d go for it ( it’s always fun spending others money). Here come the cliche part. We only have one life so do what makes you happy. Once you get the boat the folks on this site are great for answering questions, good suggestions, etc. Do what makes you and the boss happy.

Jim

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5 hours ago, Jules said:
8 hours ago, woahboy said:

I see you build guitars. That’s a cool thing.

Yeah, but I suck at playing them.  I recently finished my first acoustic.  I'm calling it El Kabong.  And for good reason.

Great name!

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I only late in the thread saw the word "Bukh" and yes, reliable, until it's not.  Much experience with a DV 10, and then a second DV 10 when the original raw water cooled beast uttered its last.  Nothing on that engine was less than a $100 bill from a marine engine place in NJ, great guy, knew him by first name.    If it's raw water cooled and the maintenance is as crummy as it looks, you're in for a multi-thousand dollar treat.  I'd look real close at zincs, exhaust elbow and system, impeller and surrounding area (leaks water when seals gone), and "sailor alts" to the engine and associated systems.  Don't let the kid bully you and you got to be able to walk away.  Nobody else would buy that one in its present condition anyway.

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On 3/18/2019 at 7:07 AM, Jules said:

Engine runs and sounds pretty good.  He ran it up to 2500 RPM and it purred.  My worries are what is happening to the metal on the partially submerged oil pan and what else is going on in that soupy lake under the engine? 

CS33_004.jpg.4c4f5c26a1e354c3440d599616c06d34.jpg

Working at a brokerage/dealership and getting paid to talk about and play with boats all day was pretty fun most of the time.

Then there were the times we'd open an access panel and find something like that. I didn't carry a mirror around, but I'm pretty sure a distinct "I'm not getting paid today" look came over my face.

Where's the original ad for this thing? I want to put it in Mocking Ads. Things like that shouldn't be a surprise, nor even for sale.

Customers come with flashlights and mirrors and look everywhere if they're really interested. Brokers come with the same and do the same when listing a boat if they don't want one of those "no sale" surprises.

Who tries to sell something in that condition anyway? I spent half a day pressure washing and vacuuming and wiping down my truck before selling it for a very small four figure amount of money. My answer to my own question: someone from whom I don't wish to buy. For that reason, Ish is right.

 

 

 

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Tom, the engine sump is designed to retain oil and fuel so it doesn't make its way to the bilge pump.  The mechanic confirmed there are no limber holes out of the engine sump.  Port Credit Marine Surveys in Ontario, who knows Canadian Sailcraft very well, confirmed this and said it was a design intent. 

How the drip water from the stuffing box created by the spinning shaft is supposed to make its way to the keel bilge is a question to which I have yet to get an answer.  I saw no dam or anything else that would divert the water around the engine sump and toward the bilge. 

While the mechanic was there he drained the sump and examined everything.  But next time someone motors with that thing, the sump will fill up again.  I don't get it.

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3 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Agree, always amazed when I would show a boat back in the day and it was not is "showable" shape.

Now all buyers have a comfort threshold. Some would have walked off the boat in two minutes, others would poke around then walk, and some might just keep going. 

Now personally I don't think a clean bilge and engine pan means a great deal beyond the boat having been cleaned up for sale. But in poking around it usually become apparent how the boat has been treated over the years. You can't hide the ill effects of a bad ship's husband.

When we first looked at the boat, I commented on how poorly the boat had been maintained.  The broker said he told the owner to clean it up after the first potential buyers looked at it. 

When we went back the second time to do a deep dive, the owner told us, "This is a really dry boat," when I asked where are the bilge pumps.  Something is missing and I think it's the owner's ability to see what's in front of his face.

But if we walk because he won't budge on the price, I don't think that will have any effect on him.  He paid $14,500 for the boat in the condition it's in four months ago.  If he felt that was a fair price, what's to stop him from believing there's not another guy like him out there? 

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31 minutes ago, Jules said:

When we first looked at the boat, I commented on how poorly the boat had been maintained.  The broker said he told the owner to clean it up after the first potential buyers looked at it. 

When we went back the second time to do a deep dive, the owner told us, "This is a really dry boat," when I asked where are the bilge pumps.  Something is missing and I think it's the owner's ability to see what's in front of his face.

But if we walk because he won't budge on the price, I don't think that will have any effect on him.  He paid $14,500 for the boat in the condition it's in four months ago.  If he felt that was a fair price, what's to stop him from believing there's not another guy like him out there? 

A buddy went through this. Owner wanted 6, he offered 5. Fast forward and the owner went for 5, but the boat had deteriorated and my buddy offered 3. Some months later the owner said OK for 3, but the boat was even more of a mess. My buddy finally got the boat for FREE when the marina evicted the boat.

$6,000 in repairs later he has a decent boat that might - just maybe - sell for a bit less than that.

if the current owner financed the boat he might HAVE to sell for $14K if he can't pay off the rest of the loan. Be patient, between not paying the note and/or not paying the slip fee this boat will end up going cheap at auction one way or the other ;)

* or just buy the boat I linked to and have a working boat, cash left over, and Florida-friendly draft.

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I'm sitting down at lunch looking out at my empty dock.  I try to imagine that particular CS33 tied up at the dock.  All I can think of is the boat crying, "Come fix me!"  I'm in the middle of doing a reno on the laundry room and hating every minute but close to done.  But that's only two of the walls.  I still have to tear out all the drywall on the other two, fir it out so I can replumb water and drains and add some electric.  Three years on the last house before I sold it and another three here and I'm really sick of it.

Maybe the boat will be a nice escape.  Or maybe it's time for some rum.  Changes in attitude...

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How long has the boat been on the market? Consider going to see the boat one more time and take a cashier's check for $10k. Sometimes cash in hand makes things happen especially if it has been on the market awhile. 

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I did this on the last boat I bought. Took a cashier's check for the amount I wanted to pay. Then I had a two thousand in $100 bills. This was the maximum I was willing to pay. The seller was close to closing the deal but wouldn't. I offered $300 more to close the deal now and avoid another month's slip rent. The seller went for the cash deal. Might be worth a try? Sounds like you want the boat.

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2 hours ago, Jules said:

I'm sitting down at lunch looking out at my empty dock.  I try to imagine that particular CS33 tied up at the dock.  All I can think of is the boat crying, "Come fix me!"  I'm in the middle of doing a reno on the laundry room and hating every minute but close to done.  But that's only two of the walls.  I still have to tear out all the drywall on the other two, fir it out so I can replumb water and drains and add some electric.  Three years on the last house before I sold it and another three here and I'm really sick of it.

Maybe the boat will be a nice escape.  Or maybe it's time for some rum.  Changes in attitude...

Florida is the world headquarters of boats with issues. There have to be 100 boats that need work within an hour drive of your house. Don't fixate on just one of them.

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12 hours ago, Jules said:

Tom, the engine sump is designed to retain oil and fuel so it doesn't make its way to the bilge pump.  The mechanic confirmed there are no limber holes out of the engine sump.  Port Credit Marine Surveys in Ontario, who knows Canadian Sailcraft very well, confirmed this and said it was a design intent. 

How the drip water from the stuffing box created by the spinning shaft is supposed to make its way to the keel bilge is a question to which I have yet to get an answer.  I saw no dam or anything else that would divert the water around the engine sump and toward the bilge. 

While the mechanic was there he drained the sump and examined everything.  But next time someone motors with that thing, the sump will fill up again.  I don't get it.

That's the kind of design intent that makes me intent on strangling the designer.

A dry boat is one where I go around trying unsuccessfully to wet a Kleenex.

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8 hours ago, Jules said:

When we first looked at the boat, I commented on how poorly the boat had been maintained.  The broker said he told the owner to clean it up after the first potential buyers looked at it. 

The time to do that would have been prior to signing the listing agreement IMO.

 

12 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Agree, always amazed when I would show a boat back in the day and it was not is "showable" shape.

Now all buyers have a comfort threshold. Some would have walked off the boat in two minutes, others would poke around then walk, and some might just keep going. 

I had one yell at me for wasting his time and then storm off. He was right. He taught me something important: if they're going to be at all surprised by the condition of the boat, it had better be pleasantly.

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I found a listing once on Yachtworld where the photo of the head showed a turd in the bowl :o

I worked on an Island Packet that was for sale once. The boat had been sitting on the hard all summer with a full holding tank. The smell would have knocked a buzzard off a shitwagon :o:o

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3 hours ago, SailMoore1 said:

How long has the boat been on the market? Consider going to see the boat one more time and take a cashier's check for $10 5k. Sometimes cash in hand makes things happen especially if it has been on the market awhile. 

FIFY

Can you see anybody else buying this boat? I'm thinking, for the money you save, you should actually end up with a nice boat with some money for drink even after buying new lines & new sails (never never never buy a boat until you've priced it for new halyards, sheets would be nice too, & a set of nice sails). So far, what I'm seeing on this boat, is a "nobody else is likely to make -any- offer for a long time" and "by the time you've got it fixed up, you'll wish you'd bought the super-nice sistership on the market for $35K instead."

But hey, I listen to the bad voices most of the time.

FB- Doug

 

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 So ; You buy it some where $10,000 to $12,000 can you get it clean & pretty and all systems Go for $3,000 to $5,000 ! If you can ,then you got a deal !!! CS built a good boat and they sail well>>

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12 hours ago, SailMoore1 said:

How long has the boat been on the market? 

When we first saw it it, a week. 

8 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Can you see anybody else buying this boat?

The current owner bought it for $14,500 last December.  I'd imagine in his head the answer to your question is, "Yes."

4 hours ago, fisher2 said:

 So ; You buy it some where $10,000 to $12,000 can you get it clean & pretty and all systems Go for $3,000 to $5,000 ! If you can ,then you got a deal !!! CS built a good boat and they sail well>>

Considering the sold prices I've seen for the CS33, if your total cost for putting this boat in good condition is around $18k, you're doing okay.  To do this the boat would need a thorough cleaning, new DC and manual bilge pumps, oil change, new primary and secondary fuel filters, new engine anodes, fresh water flush out valve, safety equipment, battery charger, and breakdown and maintenance on mechanical components like winches and pumps.  And for a little added comfort, install DC refrigeration.  I've priced those materials out at under $3,500.  

After that about all that's left is the soft decks.  That's something I'm not sure I'd care to tackle.  I'd want it to look like it never happened and that means some magic.  No one becomes a magician overnight. 

Of course the electronics need to be considered, too.  A kick ass B&G setup would run about $3,600, including sound. But that doesn't happen until the deck issue is resolved.

I'm always working on something or I'm crawling walls.  But do I really want to take this boat on?  If it didn't have the soft decks I'd be all over it.  But those soft decks really bother me.  If we walk, it will be because of the decks and the owner's unwillingness to drop the price to compensate for that. 

Vegas has 5-1 odds in favor of us walking.

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If you aren't going to tackle the soft deck yourself, I'd say definitely walk. You did say it was soft just on one side in a 5' section, right? Or is there more? Photo to show us the area that is soft?

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

Considering the sold prices I've seen for the CS33, if your total cost for putting this boat in good condition is around $18k, you're doing okay.  To do this the boat would need a thorough cleaning, new DC and manual bilge pumps, oil change, new primary and secondary fuel filters, new engine anodes, fresh water flush out valve, safety equipment, battery charger, and breakdown and maintenance on mechanical components like winches and pumps.  And for a little added comfort, install DC refrigeration.  I've priced those materials out at under $3,500.  

Did you include a dripless stuffing box or are you into the salt water marinade for oil pans?

 

1 hour ago, Jules said:

After that about all that's left is the soft decks.  That's something I'm not sure I'd care to tackle.  I'd want it to look like it never happened and that means some magic.  No one becomes a magician overnight. 

If you like the boat, do it and make it look like a paint job happened afterward. It's not like it's a collectible item where the original patina matters. Especially on engine sumps, but applies to the deck too.

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30 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

If you aren't going to tackle the soft deck yourself, I'd say definitely walk. You did say it was soft just on one side in a 5' section, right? Or is there more? Photo to show us the area that is soft?

Bad core / soft deck is not all that tough to fix. It's time consuming though and renders the boat unusable while under repair; that's kind of onerous. If you hire somebody to fix it for you, the hours it takes will make it very expensive but it's not a technically difficult or materially expensive job. Much much less than new sails, for example.

But, added to all the other stuff the boat needs, it says "walk!" pretty loudly.

 

1 hour ago, Jules said:

...    ...    ...

The current owner bought it for $14,500 last December.  I'd imagine in his head the answer to your question is, "Yes."

Considering the sold prices I've seen for the CS33, if your total cost for putting this boat in good condition is around $18k, you're doing okay.  To do this the boat would need a thorough cleaning, new DC and manual bilge pumps, oil change, new primary and secondary fuel filters, new engine anodes, fresh water flush out valve, safety equipment, battery charger, and breakdown and maintenance on mechanical components like winches and pumps.  And for a little added comfort, install DC refrigeration.  I've priced those materials out at under $3,500.  

...    ...   ...

Something sounds funny about that math, you can spend more than a grand on refrigeration alone. In any event, what the current owner paid and when is pretty much irrelevant. The question is, what will -you- pay if you want it at all, and what are the odds of somebody else buying it?

From what I've seen/heard, the current boat market is very averse to projects. Things that obviously need fixing tend to sit unsold at any price. That may not be true in this case, it is (potentially) a nice boat.

When I 've been selling a boat, when talking with an interested buyer who is Doing The Dance, I just say straight out: "Do you want the boat? If yes, just tell me what you're willing to pay for it. I won't necessarily accept it, but I already made the first move. We can't make a deal unless you're willing to reply to the asking price." OTOH the times I have bought and sold big very expensive boats, I have been glad to go thru a broker who buffered this dance.

FB- Doug

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I've heard two people say with certainty the owner will not drop the price any further.  I won't make that my burden.  But I won't buy or walk until after I see the docs for all the work that's been claimed has been done.  He says he has them.  I need to see them.

We've been looking at other boats but I really like CS.  They are very well made and, since a lot of people don't know their build quality, they usually go for a lot less than comparable Tartans or Sabres. 

When we were considering the liveaboard route, we looked at dozens of boats (38' and up) and almost all had some wet cores somewhere.  And these boats were listed at 60k on up.  Most owners don't see removing deck hardware and checking them and rebedding them as regular maintenance.  If they did, wet deck cores would be a rarity.

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

I've heard two people say with certainty the owner will not drop the price any further.  I won't make that my burden.  But I won't buy or walk until after I see the docs for all the work that's been claimed has been done.  He says he has them.  I need to see them.

We've been looking at other boats but I really like CS.  They are very well made and, since a lot of people don't know their build quality, they usually go for a lot less than comparable Tartans or Sabres. 

When we were considering the liveaboard route, we looked at dozens of boats (38' and up) and almost all had some wet cores somewhere.  And these boats were listed at 60k on up.  Most owners don't see removing deck hardware and checking them and rebedding them as regular maintenance.  If they did, wet deck cores would be a rarity.

Or if builders would properly block the hardware spots on their decks.... not drop in a chunk of random plywood, not just carry the core on to the edge as convenient, etc etc.

The motorboat that we currently have is very widely considered a "well built" boat. And it is. OTOH the cabin ports were just sawn thru the balsa core, the headliner pulled thru and stapled into the balsa, then the port inserted with lots of caulk. Obviously this was not going to last ten years. And it didn't.

FB- Doug

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Or if builders would properly block the hardware spots on their decks.... not drop in a chunk of random plywood, not just carry the core on to the edge as convenient, etc etc.

The motorboat that we currently have is very widely considered a "well built" boat. And it is. OTOH the cabin ports were just sawn thru the balsa core, the headliner pulled thru and stapled into the balsa, then the port inserted with lots of caulk. Obviously this was not going to last ten years. And it didn't.

FB- Doug

Jesus. When I did mine (steel hull) I made up backing plates of marine ply laminated with epoxy to the correct thickness then multiple coats of epoxy to seal all grain, including the bolt holes, then used sikaflex to stick them to the steel cabin sides. Then and only then did I bed the bronze ports.

Might still leak, who knows, but the water won't get to the steel or cause the ply to rot.  Not in my lifetime.

Most of that shit listed above is something I'd do with any used engine setup regardless so I can't see it matters a lot. The deck is a PITA.

FKT

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3 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Jesus. When I did mine (steel hull) I made up backing plates of marine ply laminated with epoxy to the correct thickness then multiple coats of epoxy to seal all grain, including the bolt holes, then used sikaflex to stick them to the steel cabin sides. Then and only then did I bed the bronze ports.

Might still leak, who knows, but the water won't get to the steel or cause the ply to rot.  Not in my lifetime.

Most of that shit listed above is something I'd do with any used engine setup regardless so I can't see it matters a lot. The deck is a PITA.

FKT

It's a time-consuming PITA but not a particularly difficult job. And it can be rebuilt better than before, so it's not vulnerable to further creeping rot. I rebuilt the cabin trunk around our portholes. Not counting the time spent waiting for the insides to dry, it was about a four day job, less than a day per port.

One complication is that the ports are made of some kind of miracle plastic that only one particular caulk will stick to. I read the instruction manual, ordered the caulk. This is the kind of detail that many boat builders and many owner/repairers (or pros, for that matter) fall afoul of. My usually impatient self only does this so I can "nyaa nyaa nyaa" to other people.

If you have the right tools and follow a good method, repairing decks is about the same..... tedious but not difficult. I'm always irritated to be fixing what other people fucked up, though.

FB- Doug

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19 hours ago, Jules said:

Most owners don't see removing deck hardware and checking them and rebedding them as regular maintenance.  If they did, wet deck cores would be a rarity.

Most designers/builders don't realize that hardware moves around and that capillary action and gravity are both things so core doesn't belong where hardware is attached. If they did, wet deck cores would be a rarity.

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I had to look up the ad for the topic boat.
 

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Allegro is a sailor's style of boat. She is ready to go offshore now with her engine soaking in mystery fluid. Being a Canadian Sailcraft build her reputation is known by most people looking for a sloop.


Her current owner has paid attention to her interior making her a good boat to see.

 

OK, so I might have changed a couple of words. Thought about taking it to Mocking Ads, but didn't.

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There are people with older boats all over the country that have lavished care on them for years or decades and can't find buyers for their old but good boats. I still don't get why you would spend what seems like your entire budget on a big mess someone else is trying to unload.

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5 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I still don't get why you would spend what seems like your entire budget on a big mess someone else is trying to unload.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  You had to be there.

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On 3/21/2019 at 9:49 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

Look at this boat:

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11009

Not saying to need to go buy that exact boat, but you can, for what you are willing to pay, get a well sorted boat owned by a knowledgeable owner that can sail TODAY.

The boat you are looking at seems to have gone though periods of clueless ownership and was also at one point perhaps abandoned and stripped for parts.

 

Yea, but at 124 the OP boat is significantly faster than the 180 something of the corvette.  Corvette wins in the looks department though.  Having been part of 2.2 builds in my lifetime (1 1940ish Pennant sloop Black, all mahogany restored with my parents basically from the planking up. I was 5 when they started, and by 9, she was happily sailing on Lake Geneva for the next 8 years or so.  2. 1960 ish Mariner 32 re-decked with teak, refurbished masts (varnished with love)painted and otherwise redone on top from hull up. 3.  1985 S20, Made it fast, cosmetics are wanting, but we have fun.) You have to realize, as said above, Once you start something, you are gonna find 10 more things that need fixing as long as you are there.  In the Mariners case, she went in with a soft deck kind of by the winches about 1/1 ft square one winter.  Ended up 4 seasons later with deck pulled off and replaced with Teak...  Ymmv, but my parents liked the building/fixing part and still, 20 years later, summer on the thing in the 1000 islands(its up for sale BTW if interested).  If its a labor of love go for it, if not, then well, its a crap shoot.  

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Here's a deal killer - owner makes claims boat has recently had a complete bottom job and standing rigging overhaul by Mack Sails.  "I have receipts for all the work."  I've been asking for those receipts for over a week.  The receipts came in today.  Some engine maintenance in Dec, 2016.  New shaft and cutless bearing around the same time.  That's it for the receipts.

The "bottom job" consisted of the previous owner painting the bottom.  Of course I can't see the bottom because the owner has no insurance.  What's that they say about standing water in the bilge and hull blisters? 

No receipts from Mack yet. 

What should we do, Biff?

 

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28 minutes ago, Jules said:

Here's a deal killer - owner makes claims boat has recently had a complete bottom job and standing rigging overhaul by Mack Sails.  "I have receipts for all the work."  I've been asking for those receipts for over a week.  The receipts came in today.  Some engine maintenance in Dec, 2016.  New shaft and cutless bearing around the same time.  That's it for the receipts.

The "bottom job" consisted of the previous owner painting the bottom.  Of course I can't see the bottom because the owner has no insurance.  What's that they say about standing water in the bilge and hull blisters? 

No receipts from Mack yet. 

What should we do, Biff?

 

Time to lowball with the expectation of walking. 

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I think it's time the broker's description is rewritten.  Here's the present description:

We are pleased to present this recently refitted classic CS 33.
Her owner new owner has decided to find new accommodations closer to his place of work. He is highly motivated to find her a new owner and home.
Let his change in plans be your opportunity to own a great sailing vessel.

Allegro was thoroughly attended to in early 2017 with a haul out and the following:

  • Complete bottom job including fairing and anti fouling

  • New shaft, cutlass bearings and anodes

  • New backstay

  • Ispected all standing rigging and added all new turnbuckles

  • New masthead antenna

Additional Features

  • Bukh DV 24 upgraded in 1989

  • North Sails Roller Furling

Here's the rewrite:

We are pleased to present this recently stripped out classic CS 33.  The previous owner removed everything of value in December, 2016 making the boat race ready.  The present owner has completely ignored the boat since.  And it shows!

Step aboard and feel the squishy decks.  You’ll be reminded of walking on a waterbed!  Notice the crazed Lexan in all the hatches and ports. Your privacy is ensured. No need for curtains!

Once below, the sweet fragrance of diesel fuel wafting through the air will remind you it’s time to fix the leaks, eliminating the need for a maintenance schedule!  Open the rotted out floorboards and you’ll find dark stagnant water – proof the boat is tight as a drum.  No need for those pesky bilge pumps anymore.  They have all been removed for you.  And imagine the science project your kids will have examining the murky slime below!

Take a close look at the electronics.  Classic Signet speed and depth instruments that may or may not work.  They don’t make ‘em like that anymore!  And forget needing shore power to charge your batteries.  The battery charger has also been removed so now all you have to do is run the engine when your batteries get low!  What could be easier?

Worried about the cost of having a survey done?  No need!  The owner has no insurance so you won’t be able to find a boat yard willing to haul her out.  But not to worry.  Allegro was thoroughly attended to in early 2017 with a haul out and the following:

  • Complete bottom job including fairing and anti fouling – in other words, the former owner painted the bottom.

  • New shaft, cutlass bearings and anodes – and you’ll love this - there are actually pictures to prove it!

  • New backstay.  Want proof?  The old backstay is hanging at the helm.

  • Inspected all standing rigging and added all new turnbuckles.  The claim is the work was performed by Mack Sails, though there are no receipts to prove that.  But whoever did it, they made adjusting the turnbuckles a cinch by leaving out cotter pins!

  • New masthead antenna - no worries when it comes time to call in a Mayday as the boat disintegrates below your feet.

Additional Features

  • Pukh DV 24 upgraded in 1989 and avoided like the plague by the present owner. No worries though.  You’ll need a repower sooner than you think. Rust will soon take her over thanks to the seawater/fuel mix the engine and shaft are submerged in.

  • North Sails Roller Furling, age and condition is anyone’s guess.  Don’t you love guessing games?

Brokers promise:  We will not lie to you.  We will tell you like it is, so long as that doesn’t kill the deal. Then anything is fair game.

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Yeah, but I'm in a battle that's now external.  When my SO got home from work last night I told her how I came to see the light and now believe the boat is worth $10K, tops.  She was shocked.  She thought this was a done deal and she really wants this boat. 

Since then I have been trying to make my case.  She can't understand where I'm coming from.  This morning I told her I had looked at all the CS33s for sale right now and every one had refrigeration, manual and DC bilge pumps, a battery charger and even a pressurized galley faucet.  Plus the sinks probably all had drains instead of a coffee cup covering the hole.  Most of these boats had "extras" such tenders, davits, solar, radar and lockers full of stuff one accumulates over the years because they needed the stuff. 

I went further to show her sold boats in the last 5 years averaged $22,500, 86% of asking.  Tallying up the cost of bringing the boat she has her heart set on to something equivalent to what's on the market today would cost $10K+ and that's with me doing everything but repairing the decks.  So why not up our search price?  Before she walked out the door she said, "We'll talk later today."

She may not be mechanical but she knows almost every boat on the market today and many of the ones now sold.  And that's no bullshit.  One broker marveled at her knowledge.  With that knowledge she says this is the boat.  I can't see it.  But she says she will pay for everything if she has to.  She's in commission sales and her sales have jumped the last month.  She says she's working hard to buy that boat.  

I know no one here can help.  I just needed to get this out.  Never thought I'd be fighting NOT to buy a boat.

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You 

57 minutes ago, Jules said:

Yeah, but I'm in a battle that's now external.  When my SO got home from work last night I told her how I came to see the light and now believe the boat is worth $10K, tops.  She was shocked.  She thought this was a done deal and she really wants this boat. 

Since then I have been trying to make my case.  She can't understand where I'm coming from.  This morning I told her I had looked at all the CS33s for sale right now and every one had refrigeration, manual and DC bilge pumps, a battery charger and even a pressurized galley faucet.  Plus the sinks probably all had drains instead of a coffee cup covering the hole.  Most of these boats had "extras" such tenders, davits, solar, radar and lockers full of stuff one accumulates over the years because they needed the stuff. 

I went further to show her sold boats in the last 5 years averaged $22,500, 86% of asking.  Tallying up the cost of bringing the boat she has her heart set on to something equivalent to what's on the market today would cost $10K+ and that's with me doing everything but repairing the decks.  So why not up our search price?  Before she walked out the door she said, "We'll talk later today."

She may not be mechanical but she knows almost every boat on the market today and many of the ones now sold.  And that's no bullshit.  One broker marveled at her knowledge.  With that knowledge she says this is the boat.  I can't see it.  But she says she will pay for everything if she has to.  She's in commission sales and her sales have jumped the last month.  She says she's working hard to buy that boat.  

I know no one here can help.  I just needed to get this out.  Never thought I'd be fighting NOT to buy a boat.

Remember it is just a boat. There are thousands like her. 

I do suggest you could just offer 3,000 on the boat due to all the problems you point out to the current owner with your illustrated spread sheet of costs to repair. Nothing is as chilling or motivating to an seller of a boat than a reasonable repair cost spread sheet created by a serious buyer. Remember you are not lowballing but being truthful to the seller and to yourself.  Wait a day, you will get a either a polite no or a great counter which matches your reasoned purchase price. 

If the owner does turn you down - post a photo of the boat with the name of the vessel, location and the spread sheet breakdown.  The next person who looks at her will get the price you offered (or near it) or will feel like a sap for being taken do to an unjustified emotional purchase of a 30 year old boat. :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

Yeah, but I'm in a battle that's now external.  When my SO got home from work last night I told her how I came to see the light and now believe the boat is worth $10K, tops.  She was shocked.  She thought this was a done deal and she really wants this boat. 

Since then I have been trying to make my case.  She can't understand where I'm coming from.  This morning I told her I had looked at all the CS33s for sale right now and every one had refrigeration, manual and DC bilge pumps, a battery charger and even a pressurized galley faucet.  Plus the sinks probably all had drains instead of a coffee cup covering the hole.  Most of these boats had "extras" such tenders, davits, solar, radar and lockers full of stuff one accumulates over the years because they needed the stuff. 

I went further to show her sold boats in the last 5 years averaged $22,500, 86% of asking.  Tallying up the cost of bringing the boat she has her heart set on to something equivalent to what's on the market today would cost $10K+ and that's with me doing everything but repairing the decks.  So why not up our search price?  Before she walked out the door she said, "We'll talk later today."

She may not be mechanical but she knows almost every boat on the market today and many of the ones now sold.  And that's no bullshit.  One broker marveled at her knowledge.  With that knowledge she says this is the boat.  I can't see it.  But she says she will pay for everything if she has to.  She's in commission sales and her sales have jumped the last month.  She says she's working hard to buy that boat.  

I know no one here can help.  I just needed to get this out.  Never thought I'd be fighting NOT to buy a boat.

10k?!?!? I'd say in its present state and unable to fully inspect the bottom etc. if the seller really wants out it's about 5k. But I would have walked already.

That SO thing is a real problem (been there). I think the remedy is to never let the SO see the inside of a boat until it has been thoroughly inspected/vetted. You will need to help her understand that if you buy this boat you will be spending (my rough guestimate) at least an additional 5k in repairs in the first year and that she will not see you on weekends at all for that year. Bonne chance...

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Tell her she is welcome to buy it on her dime but not to put your name on the registration.   Give her a list of yards and service providers in case she gets stuck in the overhaul / refurb process.   It'll be all hers,  you're going golfing!

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3 hours ago, Jules said:

Yeah, but I'm in a battle that's now external.  When my SO got home from work last night I told her how I came to see the light and now believe the boat is worth $10K, tops.  She was shocked.  She thought this was a done deal and she really wants this boat. 

Since then I have been trying to make my case.  She can't understand where I'm coming from.  This morning I told her I had looked at all the CS33s for sale right now and every one had refrigeration, manual and DC bilge pumps, a battery charger and even a pressurized galley faucet.  Plus the sinks probably all had drains instead of a coffee cup covering the hole.  Most of these boats had "extras" such tenders, davits, solar, radar and lockers full of stuff one accumulates over the years because they needed the stuff. 

I went further to show her sold boats in the last 5 years averaged $22,500, 86% of asking.  Tallying up the cost of bringing the boat she has her heart set on to something equivalent to what's on the market today would cost $10K+ and that's with me doing everything but repairing the decks.  So why not up our search price?  Before she walked out the door she said, "We'll talk later today."

She may not be mechanical but she knows almost every boat on the market today and many of the ones now sold.  And that's no bullshit.  One broker marveled at her knowledge.  With that knowledge she says this is the boat.  I can't see it.  But she says she will pay for everything if she has to.  She's in commission sales and her sales have jumped the last month.  She says she's working hard to buy that boat.  

I know no one here can help.  I just needed to get this out.  Never thought I'd be fighting NOT to buy a boat.

That girl is demanding that you buy a boat?

She's a keeper.

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Without a full out-of-water survey I would not even THINK about offering more than the scrap value of the lead.

As for the SO - I am assuming you have separate finances. If SHE is willing to fund 10-20K in repairs on her own plus buy the boat, well let her have at it then and learn a painful lesson.

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4 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

That's what I'm thinking. As long as she commits to be there working side by side with you, fixing this money-pit.  With such authority comes responsibility...

Noble sentiment, but I'm think they'll be better off with a boat that they'll be sailing together sooner.

After all the observations made on this boat, I think "Hey, you seem like a nice guy, just let me sign over all the paperwork to you on this boat and I'll give a years' worth of free Starbucks coupons" would be an acceptable deal.

36 minutes ago, monsoon said:

...    ...

Be patient, lots of good boats out there.

True, and good advice

FB- Doug

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BREAKING NEWS!!!

They produced the Mack Sails receipt!  But instead of "Ispected all standing rigging and added all new turnbuckles" it's "added one new turnbuckle for the backstay." 

I'm sure it's just bad math.

We're having a conversation with the sales guy this evening after the SO gets home from work.  So that I'm ready, I compiled a detailed cost spreadsheet of all the materials for the work I'm willing to do and the labor and material cost for the work I don't want to do.  For grins I included the toys I want like a kick ass B&G system - MFD, couple of Triton 2s, for depth, speed and wind, and sound.  If she caves on that I just might be up for it.  But not at the contract price. 

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Given what this boat has shown you already...and the fact that the 50% that you can't see is the 50% that is always submerged, I'd be terrified....seriously.  The Broker and owner have mis-represented a number of items.  I'm sure they are not hiding anything you can't see, and won't see till you haul it once it yours. 

No haul and inspection out of the water = No Deal under any conditions!!!

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If the big flood was coming and this was the last boat for sale I would say go for it.  I don't ever remember a boat purchase where it was realized that wow, this was a lot better than I expected.  

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

BREAKING NEWS!!!

They produced the Mack Sails receipt!  But instead of "Ispected all standing rigging and added all new turnbuckles" it's "added one new turnbuckle for the backstay." 

I'm sure it's just bad math.

We're having a conversation with the sales guy this evening after the SO gets home from work.  So that I'm ready, I compiled a detailed cost spreadsheet of all the materials for the work I'm willing to do and the labor and material cost for the work I don't want to do.  For grins I included the toys I want like a kick ass B&G system - MFD, couple of Triton 2s, for depth, speed and wind, and sound.  If she caves on that I just might be up for it.  But not at the contract price. 

If I could prove that boat was full of Ebola, at this point I am thinking you would just start looking for Ebola vaccine bargains :o

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3 minutes ago, bigrpowr said:

has your SO seen this thread ?

I dunno...knowing there is a group of cranky old people on the internet saying "run away" may not have the desired affect.

I do echo it though. Without an out of water survey I wouldn't even think about an offer.

 

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2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

If the big flood was coming and this was the last boat for sale I would say go for it.  I don't ever remember a boat purchase where it was realized that wow, this was a lot better than I expected.  

It happens. My last boat was like that - a Hunter 31 that had been more or less abandoned on a mooring for 2 or 3 years. It had all the usual Hunter amenities like hot & cold pressure water, Origo stove etc.

I anticipated that the water heater would be toast along with the pressure water pump, bilge pump, battery charger etc, etc. and paid accordingly.

Everything worked just fine. :o:D

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10 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

This one has big, syphillitic blisters in an end-to-end pox beneath the waterline 

No you're just making shit up. As Joe Friday says, "Just the facts, ma'am."

 

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Yes, just trying to reinforce what kent_island_sailor was pointing out. You and the SO need to take a break from this deal and regain a 40,000' view of the sailboat market.

I'll bet that if a good friend of yours told you he was about to buy a sailboat over 30' and the seller wouldn't allow him to haul out and examine the bottom, you'd be all over him to walk away from the deal.  Well that's what we, your SA friends, are trying to tell you.  At least take a 2-week cooling off break to consider this.  Who buys a boat where the seller doesn't allow you to properly survey it?  

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Had a long conversation with the broker sales guy last night.  Late in the call he said they had a couple of other buyers lined up.  That set me off because they never listed the boat as pending, probably trying to generate more business.  And with the broker's fantasy write-up, I'm sure it worked.  "Well you just bring in those other potential buyers because we're done!"  I was pretty pissed.

The boss took over the conversation.  I walked away. 

All along we've been told the buyer wouldn't budge from the contract price.  I had asked the broker about that earlier in the conversation last night and he confirmed it.  At the end of the call my SO used my number + $300, said that's our final offer and said we need a response before the 30th.  I figured that's it and good riddance.  About 20 minutes later he texted, "the buyer said he'll sleep on it".  

She wants this boat because she knows what I can do with it, not because of what it is.  She also knows I'm happiest when I'm working on something I love.  My worst day working on a boat is better than my best day working on something else.  She said, "You've been fixing other people's boats for decades and they have reaped the rewards of your work.  Maybe it's time you reaped those rewards." 

I'm still pissed about that "other buyers" bullshit.  BTW, the broker also texted back and said the boat is now listed as pending.  whoopee  

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1 minute ago, Jules said:

Had a long conversation with the broker sales guy last night.  Late in the call he said they had a couple of other buyers lined up.  That set me off because they never listed the boat as pending, probably trying to generate more business.  And with the broker's fantasy write-up, I'm sure it worked.  "Well you just bring in those other potential buyers because we're done!"  I was pretty pissed.

The boss took over the conversation.  I walked away. 

All along we've been told the buyer wouldn't budge from the contract price.  I had asked the broker about that earlier in the conversation last night and he confirmed it.  At the end of the call my SO used my number + $300, said that's our final offer and said we need a response before the 30th.  I figured that's it and good riddance.  About 20 minutes later he texted, "the buyer said he'll sleep on it".  

She wants this boat because she knows what I can do with it, not because of what it is.  She also knows I'm happiest when I'm working on something I love.  My worst day working on a boat is better than my best day working on something else.  She said, "You've been fixing other people's boats for decades and they have reaped the rewards of your work.  Maybe it's time you reaped those rewards." 

I'm still pissed about that "other buyers" bullshit.  BTW, the broker also texted back and said the boat is now listed as pending.  whoopee  

Good for you.  I walked out of a dealership when the paperwork did not reflect the negotiation.  There is no way to do business with a liar.

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12 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

Yes, just trying to reinforce what kent_island_sailor was pointing out. You and the SO need to take a break from this deal and regain a 40,000' view of the sailboat market.

I'll bet that if a good friend of yours told you he was about to buy a sailboat over 30' and the seller wouldn't allow him to haul out and examine the bottom, you'd be all over him to walk away from the deal.  Well that's what we, your SA friends, are trying to tell you.  At least take a 2-week cooling off break to consider this.  Who buys a boat where the seller doesn't allow you to properly survey it?  

I don't disagree but you know boat buying is not about logic.  But is it logical to take as gospel the advice of those who haven't actually seen the boat?  This is not to discount the sage advice given here.  It's mostly very good advice.  I left the building a couple of days ago but she stayed.  And I'll support her.  She's the best thing in my life.

Had they produced receipts from a boat yard showing a peel, barrier coat, fairing and paint done recently, not seeing the bottom wouldn't be such an issue.  In my SO's counter she said the buyer has to find a boat yard to haul the boat and pay for the haul out so we can inspect the boat.  Otherwise cut $2k from our counter.  We'll see...

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

Had a long conversation with the broker sales guy last night.  Late in the call he said they had a couple of other buyers lined up.  That set me off because they never listed the boat as pending, probably trying to generate more business.  And with the broker's fantasy write-up, I'm sure it worked.  "Well you just bring in those other potential buyers because we're done!"  I was pretty pissed.

The boss took over the conversation.  I walked away. 

All along we've been told the buyer wouldn't budge from the contract price.  I had asked the broker about that earlier in the conversation last night and he confirmed it.  At the end of the call my SO used my number + $300, said that's our final offer and said we need a response before the 30th.  I figured that's it and good riddance.  About 20 minutes later he texted, "the buyer said he'll sleep on it".  

She wants this boat because she knows what I can do with it, not because of what it is.  She also knows I'm happiest when I'm working on something I love.  My worst day working on a boat is better than my best day working on something else.  She said, "You've been fixing other people's boats for decades and they have reaped the rewards of your work.  Maybe it's time you reaped those rewards." 

I'm still pissed about that "other buyers" bullshit.  BTW, the broker also texted back and said the boat is now listed as pending.  whoopee  

You and the seller are not yet even informally agreed on a price, much less officially in contract, and the broker modifies the listing to "pending?" That sounds like one shady broker...

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

And I'll support her.  She's the best thing in my life.

Hey look, that's great and that's the way my wife and I are. But we make it clear to each other if we see the other being set up for a fall.

I'm really concerned that a college kid is playing you guys like a fiddle on this one.

1.  He must not know shit about sailboats, from the sounds of how he acquired it. And he is telling you, an experienced boat guy, that you cannot even do a reasonable self-survey of the boat, using the phoney "no insurance" excuse that one uses when one wants to prevent people from doing something.

2.  He's using the old "other buyers" routine on you. A regular Donald Trump Jr.  You buying that bullshit?  He's now got you moving up in price, not down.  As they used to say in the car dealerships, "paging Mr. Otis!" - the price elevator is now going up.

It's not the last boat.  It's got a soft deck.  And a long worklist of other crap. And then you have to spend to outfit with gear....etc.  

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You have to wonder if the Broker is advising the kid owner not to come down on price any, as the Broker is already not really making much on this deal...Cheap boats like this take as much or more work to sell than a nicely maintained newer boat that sells for 5 times as much...and that the Broker then makes 5 times as much as well.

I've bought one boat without a survey.  It was on the hard, so I could thoroughly inspect the boat, top to bottom.  It was accurately represented as having wet decks.  I'd watched the best boatyard in Solomon's replace wet core in the hull.  I had to get a survey for "insurance" purposes after purchase, and I suspect your insurance company will want the same.  While not as expensive as a full "pre-purchase" survey, you're going to pay for a survey one way or the other.  

My plan was to sail the boat for a couple years, and slowly recore the wet deck in the off season.  The first winter we had a hard freeze (Norfolk VA) that cracked the deck in two spots - foredeck and mast partners- and so we missed the whole next season recoring most of the deck, and rebuilding the mast partners...

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20 hours ago, Crash said:

You have to wonder if the Broker is advising the kid owner not to come down on price any, as the Broker is already not really making much on this deal..

Most brokers just want to sell.  If it means a few hundred bucks less in their pocket and getting rid of the listing, they will take it every time.  Moving inventory in whatever way you can is smart.  You have to keep the money flowing in if you want to keep the business running.  When I was a project manager and construction was in hard times I'd bid jobs at cost to keep things rolling. And I kept my crew working, guys I didn't want to lose because they are hard to replace.

The owner still hasn't gotten back to us.  Probably trying to shop us out.  This morning the SO gave him a deadline - 3PM today.  I want to move this piece of inventory out the door. There are some other boats I'd like to see this weekend.

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I’d walk. Just from the games the broker is playing. He’s a regular asshat, that guy is. Just my two cents.

Jim

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21 minutes ago, Jules said:

Most brokers just want to sell.  If it means a few hundred bucks less in their pocket and getting rid of the listing, they will take it every time.  Moving inventory in whatever way you can is smart.  You have to keep the money flowing in if you want to keep the business running.  When I was a project manager and construction was in hard times I'd bid jobs at cost to keep things rolling. And I kept my crew working, guys I didn't want to lose because they are hard to replace.

...     ...    ...

 

Yeah, but don't go on the assumption that everybody is motivated by the same rational priorities as you. The guy sounds like at least borderline, if not over the line, into being a crook and he's certainly being an asshat.

23 minutes ago, Jules said:

....    ...   ...

The owner still hasn't gotten back to us.  Probably trying to shop us out.  This morning the SO gave him a deadline - 3PM today.  I want to move this piece of inventory out the door. There are some other boats I'd like to see this weekend.

Go!

FB- Doug

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Just heard back. The owner won't budge below $13,500.

WE'RE FREE!  And I don't have to be the baddy.  But I really feel sorry for the poor sap who buys that boat.

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10 minutes ago, Jules said:

Just heard back. The owner won't budge below $13,500.

WE'RE FREE!  And I don't have to be the baddy.  But I really feel sorry for the poor sap who buys that boat.

Good deal. Let the search continue. Pleas keep us updated. Buying a boat threads are fun. I started one myself and all here were very helpful.

Jim

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something is missing in the story of this boat but thats kind of a separate issue. nasty bilge with antifreeze in it I wouldn't worry about too much. some simple green, hot water and a scrub brush and that issue is solved. a for the engine, if the mechanic gave it a green light and the oil analysis came back clean it sounds like you're good. the engine mounts also look pretty shot to me, I'd replace them sooner rather than later, it's not a terribly expensive project but it is a pain in the ass. the oil pan thats been sitting in seawater for potentially months is a bit worrisome. You need to get that water out so you an get a good look at the oil pan, if it's badly corroded replace it. as for the fuel filter just ditch it, get a racor and be done. 5ft section of soft deck core is a pain to replace but I don't think it's a deal breaker, also not that difficult of a project but again, time consuming and a pain in the ass. 

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3 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Also clarify to your wife even if you get a brand new boat there will be plenty of things to work on, fix, repair, and improve!

She knows. 

When I think about the overpowering diesel smell, leaky fuel filter, rotten floorboards, swamp sitting in the bilge, spongy deck, mystery bottom, missing faucet & drain in the galley sink - what a fucking wreck!

Defender has their annual sale going on right now.  Every boat we want to see so far has some pretty antiquated electronics.  I've been drooling over that B&G Triton2 package.  That's the fun stuff work. 

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

Just heard back. The owner won't budge below $13,500.

WE'RE FREE!  And I don't have to be the baddy.  But I really feel sorry for the poor sap who buys that boat.

Just be happy that you're not that poor sap.

Yes, it could be a really nice boat.... after a couple years work and an outpouring of money. But right now, it's not a nice boat. I'm not even sure it's a boat; it's a fiberglass box that looks like a boat. Why pay for a Picasso when the thing you're getting a dot-matrix print-out of a Picasso?

FB- Doug

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There's a C&C 35 (I think it's the Landfall version) that's a short drive from here.  In Pompano (2.5 hours away) there's an Aloha 32 that looks okay.  And a Morgan 36 Merlin in Niceville.  I'll need Google maps to find that place.  The search continues...

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5 minutes ago, Jules said:

There's a C&C 35 (I think it's the Landfall version) that's a short drive from here.  In Pompano (2.5 hours away) there's an Aloha 32 that looks okay.  And a Morgan 36 Merlin in Niceville.  I'll need Google maps to find that place.  The search continues...

I've been to Niceville.

It's aptly named. Wish I could remember the name of the little seafood joint I'd recommend........

FB- Doug

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Just looked it up and ran it on OpenCPN.  8 hour drive there and about 420 NM coming back if we went straight through.  The SO would need a week off work to bring her back.  She keeps talking about this one.  That boat would need a thorough going over before I'd make that run.

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