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Rapido Trimarans - 2 x New Folding Models Coming !


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On 6/10/2021 at 4:17 PM, Zonker said:

Yes, they do. But I think if you are CRUISING a trimaran and you fly the main hull you are on the bad side of the stability curve. Just like if you fly one hull of a cruising catamaran.

Overload the cat and the hulls sink. Faster than a mono of the same length usually though I am not sure for really fat hulls like a Lagoon. Might be similar. Hmmm have to try to find published figures...anyway

Overload a tri and the hulls sink. Probably SLOWER than the cat because you go from amas barely kissing the water to several inches immersed and the waterplane grows very rapidly due to the ama shape.

Blue water cruising a trimaran in serious weather you need ample buoyancy in the lee ama 'cos when that big one comes along it will try to fling the two weather hulls up and over that lee one. 

I am not interested in flying two hulls under a press of sail, rather staying shiny side up and being safe sailing fast in big waves.

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I will jump in here .  The Rapido 60 was built with beams that plugged in to sockets mainly to save money for shipping . However we sailed the first one for 18 months with the boat held together by th

Honestly I don't know why I bother even responding on here sometimes . Yes I started this thread because I thought some people  might be interested in our approach to build relatively light weight hig

Really this is all being blown out of all proportion here ,  I have a friendly healthy relationship with the owner and yes there are always some issues on a brand new design  that need addressing

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11 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

Simplify and add wideness

I agree and for shorthanded sailing that's how development went but for smaller inshore boats both movable ballast options have been successful. 

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On 6/11/2021 at 8:53 AM, boardhead said:

Oh - yes - what is the ama flotation on an F36?

Surely you know the answer, I would be very interested to know? I've been told 200% But??

What I do know is that we had our leeward ama flood on a difficult nighttime passage. I counted the buckets at 3 gallons each coming out as my wife and I bailed while still going to windward in about 17kn AWS. A wave would wash over the ama hatch about every 1-5 minutes and wifie would slam that hatch shut (me inside with bucket) as the water passed over... wound up being about 5,000 pounds of water that we moved over about 2-1/2 hours time. I recall the ama was visually about ?? 1/3 full of water.   What was absolutely shocking about this is that the F36 still performed so well, but the leeward ama was sure dragging its hind end!

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Well, I don’t know, that’s why I am asking! 

I believe that, on a trimaran, the buoyancy of the ama - in pounds or kilograms- should be one of the primary listed dimensions.

The “off the cuff” % number has been used to fob off owners for years - what the hell does it mean when an accurate total weight is generally a moving target as is the recommended loaded maximum!

While totally respecting your somewhat desperate situation baling the lee ama as your wife opened and closed the deck hatch “valve” (what a woman!) - I doubt it was one third full as the volume grows in the wider, higher, hull form plus you do have bulkheads in there - don’t you?

I bet the ama volume for the Rapido is known but I honestly doubt that number was ever calculated by many of the “name” designers.

Do you want to go on record with Rapido numbers, Paul, might start a healthy trend moving foreword.

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2 hours ago, boardhead said:

While totally respecting your somewhat desperate situation baling the lee ama as your wife opened and closed the deck hatch “valve” (what a woman!) - I doubt it was one third full as the volume grows in the wider, higher, hull form plus you do have bulkheads in there - don’t you?

There is a huge forward watertight compartment and also a small one at the aft end. The water was about 1/2 the total depth. The wife used to drive a Ford 350 with a plate that said RedNkGrl1... so she is part Calgary cowgirl.

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Back in the days it was always some about the ama bouancy - went from 100 to 300% if I remember correctly. 

Dragonfly has a thinking around this - they want the amas to go down and warn about to much power - for a racing boat - you dont ant that. But the DF boats - they work very well. I have been on an old racing tri sailing the amas totally under - it slowed down the boat but was not frightening (not a lot of waves). 

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14 hours ago, boardhead said:

... but I honestly doubt that number was ever calculated by many of the “name” designers.

 

Certainly does seem to be true given the number of tris that were redesigned with bigger floats after the prototype or first series proved too tender.  

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15 hours ago, boardhead said:

I believe that, on a trimaran, the buoyancy of the ama - in pounds or kilograms- should be one of the primary listed dimensions.

...

I bet the ama volume for the Rapido is known but I honestly doubt that number was ever calculated by many of the “name” designers.

Do you want to go on record with Rapido numbers, Paul, might start a healthy trend moving foreword.

^^^Exactly.

Everybody expects to know how much draft and ballast a monohull has, and beam and flotation in a multihull is the functional equivalent. 

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Not seeing any numbers pop up here for F36 ama buoyancy so I guess the best we can do is 2flit’s analysis:-

”Half depth in the mid section with huge forward watertight compartment and also a small one at the aft end” - sounds in the region of one third the volume, OK.

5,000 pounds at 25 pounds per bucket (3 gallons @ 8.34/gallon) in 2 1/2 hours (150 minutes) or a bucket full every 45 seconds - man, what a work out - these are tough people - but OK if that’s what it was.

So if we use these numbers the ama buoyancy is around 15,000 pounds which sounds high to me but so be it.

Bit sad that a guy and his girl worked long and hard to buy and prepare an F36/39 trimaran touted as an offshore cruiser only to find out the hard way that the 15,000 pound ama buoyancy (owner practical estimate) would indicate a boat weight of 7,500 pounds to jive with the “200% ama buoyancy” suggested - Oh, so no payload on account of the known weight at WAY more than 7,500 or NOT “200% ama buoyancy” which is it? The well respected designer is not with us any more but did he leave a note with one of the builders out there?

Why on earth would any designer NOT calculate the displaced cubic inches/feet/liters/meters or whatever to come up with an accurate support number for the ama - if it were a ballasted monohull is he gonna say “ I can’t decide whether to hang three or six tons on the bottom”!

How do the Rapido numbers crunch here?

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Well... this is all very rough. I am 100% sure that when I stared... I was extracting 3 gallons every 15-20 seconds, at least when the hatch was open. That much water in your boat brings the best in you out! It was 'easy' until the water got shallower and the floating flotsam started to  truly beat me up. Melanie on deck felt just fine about it, "no problem mate".  I probably stopped with 10% of the water still in the ama and extracted that after we made landfall inside Hao Atoll.  I think any number calculated on this basis could be as much as plus or minus 30%.  The forward watertight compartment comes back to about 8" forward of the forward beam centerline.

I have an enquiring mind... so am asking some other owners - who actually built their boats - if they know the ama reserve buoyancy. I'll report back to you here.

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18 hours ago, 2flit said:

Well... this is all very rough. I am 100% sure that when I stared... I was extracting 3 gallons every 15-20 seconds, at least when the hatch was open. That much water in your boat brings the best in you out! It was 'easy' until the water got shallower and the floating flotsam started to  truly beat me up. Melanie on deck felt just fine about it, "no problem mate".  I probably stopped with 10% of the water still in the ama and extracted that after we made landfall inside Hao Atoll.  I think any number calculated on this basis could be as much as plus or minus 30%.  The forward watertight compartment comes back to about 8" forward of the forward beam centerline.

I have an enquiring mind... so am asking some other owners - who actually built their boats - if they know the ama reserve buoyancy. I'll report back to you here.

How did you get that much water in the float of an F36 while sailing?  Thank Lord you didn't tack; not sure the structure could have coped with that for long!  And damn impressive to get it out... nothing like a scared man with a bucket as they say!

 

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48 minutes ago, Wess said:

How did you get that much water in the float of an F36 while sailing?  Thank Lord you didn't tack; not sure the structure could have coped with that for long!  And damn impressive to get it out... nothing like a scared man with a bucket as they say!

 

We had older Marinco solar vent s in each ama. We used to close them off with a solid 'push-in' pie plate (this had a #10 pan head set screw for added security) when sailing off-shore. The leeward ama's pie plate cover blew out while underway, possibly because it was a very squally night and we were sailing thru mostly beam-on seas. It was pitch dark and we didn't notice it immediately. Allot of water can flow thru a 4" hole in your deck in those conditions.

Since then we have switched to a threaded in solar vent and have had a machinist cut threads to match in new 1-1/4" thick deck plates that now thread in.

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1 hour ago, 2flit said:

We had older Marinco solar vent s in each ama. We used to close them off with a solid 'push-in' pie plate (this had a #10 pan head set screw for added security) when sailing off-shore. The leeward ama's pie plate cover blew out while underway, possibly because it was a very squally night and we were sailing thru mostly beam-on seas. It was pitch dark and we didn't notice it immediately. Allot of water can flow thru a 4" hole in your deck in those conditions.

Since then we have switched to a threaded in solar vent and have had a machinist cut threads to match in new 1-1/4" thick deck plates that now thread in.

I hear you.  Big risk those holes in floats!

 

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13 hours ago, 2flit said:

We had older Marinco solar vent s in each ama. We used to close them off with a solid 'push-in' pie plate (this had a #10 pan head set screw for added security) when sailing off-shore. The leeward ama's pie plate cover blew out while underway, possibly because it was a very squally night and we were sailing thru mostly beam-on seas. It was pitch dark and we didn't notice it immediately. Allot of water can flow thru a 4" hole in your deck in those conditions.

Since then we have switched to a threaded in solar vent and have had a machinist cut threads to match in new 1-1/4" thick deck plates that now thread in.

 

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That's why we don't have inspection ports in Rapido Trimarans , they always leak ! We run pipes to the bottom of each compartment back or forward  to the storage area near the deck so we can check if there is water in there with a pump , also act as vents as the hull pumps going through waves . If inverted also cannot flood the compartment .

Back in the really olden days Ian subscribed to the submersible float theory but as time went by he increased the buoyancy of his floats to maybe 160% , I think Rapido's are about 200% but obviously depends on the weight of the boat or its loaded state . 

There is no perfect answer , ask the designers why !  It is always a tossup about shape and where the buoyancy is located .

 

 

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5 hours ago, Paul Koch said:

That's why we don't have inspection ports in Rapido Trimarans , they always leak ! We run pipes to the bottom of each compartment back or forward  to the storage area near the deck so we can check if there is water in there with a pump , also act as vents as the hull pumps going through waves . If inverted also cannot flood the compartment .

Back in the really olden days Ian subscribed to the submersible float theory but as time went by he increased the buoyancy of his floats to maybe 160% , I think Rapido's are about 200% but obviously depends on the weight of the boat or its loaded state . 

There is no perfect answer , ask the designers why !  It is always a tossup about shape and where the buoyancy is located .

 

 

I agree, Pie plates always leak. Bowmar had some that were aluminum with a reasonable weight and cost that I've used that were decently water tight.

However... the only solution we came up with is the plates we had machined. They have an O-ring seal cut into the side of the plate just above where the threads stop at the top. This seal is 100% water-proof but it cost us $400 NZD at the time to make two of them. I can not fathom why better ones like we have are not mass produced and marketed by one of what seem like 50 different pie-plate / inspection port manufacturers.

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10 hours ago, Paul Koch said:

That's why we don't have inspection ports in Rapido Trimarans , they always leak ! We run pipes to the bottom of each compartment back or forward  to the storage area near the deck so we can check if there is water in there with a pump , also act as vents as the hull pumps going through waves . If inverted also cannot flood the compartment .

Back in the really olden days Ian subscribed to the submersible float theory but as time went by he increased the buoyancy of his floats to maybe 160% , I think Rapido's are about 200% but obviously depends on the weight of the boat or its loaded state . 

There is no perfect answer , ask the designers why !  It is always a tossup about shape and where the buoyancy is located .

 

 

Surfboard manufacturers reluctantly started denoting volume in liters (mostly, some in cu in) along the stringer or rail in the last decade. This has been a very good thing for innovation as punters like me can buy wildly different shapes to experiment with and have reasonable confidence that the board is fine, it’s our skills or stance that aren’t adequate. 
 

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I’ll add that when we find a shape that jives with our style we play with the volume to suit the conditions.

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From an education standpoint it would be nice if the designers would chip in and good on you Paul for being the piggy in the middle as they keep mum.

The answer get's more perfect as the end product's primary use get's more specific.

Current buoyancy distribution looks like small waves and motoring are in focus.

Quote

There is no perfect answer , ask the designers why !  It is always a tossup about shape and where the buoyancy is located .

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, boardhead said:

Current buoyancy distribution looks like small waves 

Trade-off with large % ama and big waves =  slapping/slamming?

That is a comment from Chris White re: offshore cruising tri's - specifically about his hammerhead design but it was a general comment.  He thought the Hammerhead best compromise (again for cruising) was quite a bit under 200%.

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3 hours ago, estarzinger said:

Trade-off with large % ama and big waves =  slapping/slamming?

I think there is also a relation to the shape of the ama bottom.

Much like a monohull, an ama with a V-shaped bottom will slam less, or at least more delicately, than a flat-bottomed ama.

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I think that we all would benefit from some actual first hand accounts of how things have been going with the R50?

For my part, I don't see why so many here castigated Pantouf for relaying his direct on-site and first hand impressions of the R50. Especially when it is backed up with the owner's agent's direct experiences? This is part of the reality and a snapshot in time that he got  blasted for. None of us have any way to judge this boat from 3,000 miles away at a keyboard. Why is it that someone who has visited the boat, spoken at length with the person commissioning her, and has no apparent reason to be untrustworthy... why all the ridicule of first hand on site reports?

It seems that Pantouf has left this conversation and regardless of everyone else's affections and impressions... I think this is a  loss of information. Is the only thing that can be said about the R50 a favorable comment?

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Give me a break. I am interested in buying and so interested in truth.  But endless BS is BS.  There is more but I ain't going there...

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Yes the 50 is sailing and from the report I had from one of the design team who was there it is a stiff solid platform that sails very well . Sorry but have only received very few long distance photos as yet so nothing I can offer there other than these . Boats was doing 9 knots hard on the breeze in 12 knots of wind . Also seems the weight was overstated in the past by a significant amount . It's new light ship weight including rig and sails is 8275 kg as weighed by the owners rep.

From the owner :  Hey! Sail was BRILLIANT.

As to where we are at , we have now sold 5 x Rapido 60's , 2 x Rapido 50's and 10 x Rapido 40's . 3 of those 17 boats are already sailing so we have plenty of work to do in front of us . First 40 is getting close , 2nd and 3 rd not far behind . Also the end of construction is in sight for the 2nd 50 . 

In case you are wondering what we have been doing for the past 7 years , we have also built a couple of Mussell Dredgers and a bunch of Ferry superstructures for Denmark , Carbon tubes for mines in Australia , dozens of train interiors for Vietnam railways , plugs and molds for 45 ft Sailing Cat , plugs and molds for a 40 ft Power cat , plugs and molds for a 23 ft unique power cat for a company in Australia , plus many other small composite parts for many other companies . We did all this so we could follow our passion to build the best cruising trimarans in the world . 

www.triaccomposites.com

Rome was not built in a day !

 

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10 40s? Thats impressive - hope you make money on them then... see the prize come up at 408.000€ - thats much cheaper than the Dragonfly 40 at 600T€++ - and from the specs the Rapido is wider - has a carbon-rotating wingmast - and I think bigger floats - so it should be faster. And the interior is really very interesting with the view. 

The 50 looks great under sail. The Rapido seems to get the right concept for really good fast bigger trimarans. And good that its Vietnam - not China. 

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On 6/30/2021 at 2:50 AM, Paul Koch said:

Yes the 50 is sailing and from the report I had from one of the design team who was there it is a stiff solid platform that sails very well . Sorry but have only received very few long distance photos as yet so nothing I can offer there other than these . Boats was doing 9 knots hard on the breeze in 12 knots of wind . Also seems the weight was overstated in the past by a significant amount . It's new light ship weight including rig and sails is 8275 kg as weighed by the owners rep.

From the owner :  Hey! Sail was BRILLIANT.

As to where we are at , we have now sold 5 x Rapido 60's , 2 x Rapido 50's and 10 x Rapido 40's . 3 of those 17 boats are already sailing so we have plenty of work to do in front of us . First 40 is getting close , 2nd and 3 rd not far behind . Also the end of construction is in sight for the 2nd 50 . 

In case you are wondering what we have been doing for the past 7 years , we have also built a couple of Mussell Dredgers and a bunch of Ferry superstructures for Denmark , Carbon tubes for mines in Australia , dozens of train interiors for Vietnam railways , plugs and molds for 45 ft Sailing Cat , plugs and molds for a 40 ft Power cat , plugs and molds for a 23 ft unique power cat for a company in Australia , plus many other small composite parts for many other companies . We did all this so we could follow our passion to build the best cruising trimarans in the world . 

www.triaccomposites.com

Rome was not built in a day !

 

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Congrats Paul. Very happy for your well deserved success and nice to see facts to address the bullshit from the couch potatoes. Oddly those nutters putted themselves so it’s nice to know who not to do business with I’m that area of the world. On e other hand I hope to have the chance to do business with you and can’t wait to see one of the 40s. Regards.

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On 5/31/2021 at 9:14 AM, Pantouf said:

I emailed the guy who looks after this Rapido 50 and who has been involved in the building process since day 1.

He wrote: the weight of the boat, as it arrived in Europe and taking off the weight of cradles, wrapping, temporary mast, diesel and water content was 9,6 tonnes. This does include all the sails, the running rigging, a Takacat dinghy and a carbon gangway, but does not include the mast, boom or standing rigging. By the time this boat goes sailing in still a very basic configuration, it will be 10,5 tonnes.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 2:50 AM, Paul Koch said:

It's new light ship weight including rig and sails is 8275 kg as weighed by the owners rep.

Is this the same guy?  He should probably apologize.  WTF

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I was on a long delivery, from Curaçao to Palma, with a stop over in Lanzarote due to engine issues. Happy to see the Rapido 50 now finally with a proper mast. The mast and boom look an awesome piece of kit. The Rapido 50 itself looks a building site.

Although I was not going to respond here anymore, I had to respond about one thing:

Paul Koch: "Also seems the weight was overstated in the past by a significant amount . It's new light ship weight including rig and sails is 8275 kg as weighed by the owners rep."

Now that is rich coming from you Paul, as Rapido sold the boat with a LD of 6.500 kgs and max displacement of 8.400kgs. So where does the overstatement comes in? Seems to me you totally understated the weight. Plus, I was told you have never been able to give an actual weight when the owner asked for it about a dozen times. But, just blame the designer, nice and easy.

Here are the figures, calculated on the basis of ISO Lightship Condition and as sent to me by the owners rep.

Lt displacement calculation Rapido 50 #001    
     
Weight as accurately measured at STP 18-6-2021        8.450 kgs
Water         (260)  
Diesel         (197)  
Various items weighed left on boat           (56)  
     
Total weight minus items and fluids        7.937 kgs
     
Glass windows instead of perspex           (40)  
All chain + swivel 50%           (60)  
1 Lithium Iron Battery + fuse + solenoid + cable           (75)  
Watermaker, complete installation + spares           (30)  
Inverter, various           (75)  
     
Mainsail + battens            87  
Solent + battens            39  
Mast, boom & rigging          492  
     
LIGHT DISPLACEMENT Rapido 50 #001        8.275 kgs
     
     
Water          400  
Diesel          320  
Spares, sails, life raft, dinghy, outboard, inventory        1.250  
4 persons + kit, some food and drinks          500  
     
Ready to sail normally      10.745 kgs
     
New CE max displacement      11.913 kgs
     
Difference        1.168  

 

So with the now accurately measured weight, the owner/rep now finally have a precise weight for their boat and the 10,5 tonnes when the boat actually starts sailing still stands, as predicted some month ago. 

I wish you all well, except one.

 

 

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On 6/29/2021 at 11:50 PM, Paul Koch said:

 

In case you are wondering what we have been doing for the past 7 years , we have also built a couple of Mussell Dredgers and a bunch of Ferry superstructures for Denmark , Carbon tubes for mines in Australia , dozens of train interiors for Vietnam railways , plugs and molds for 45 ft Sailing Cat , plugs and molds for a 40 ft Power cat , plugs and molds for a 23 ft unique power cat for a company in Australia , plus many other small composite parts for many other companies . We did all this so we could follow our passion to build the best cruising trimarans in the world . 

 

Let's not forget the crap work done on the last SeaRail builds.  It's all well and good to preen with the accomplishment of a big job, but it is deceitful to forget the horrible quality put into the small ticket items that pay for the electric bill.   I still would not trust Triac without a representative inspector living there and watching to prevent crap from happening.  Passion for the best trimaran would be good, but passion for the $$$ is what you get from them.

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1 hour ago, MultiThom said:

Let's not forget the crap work done on the last SeaRail builds.  It's all well and good to preen with the accomplishment of a big job, but it is deceitful to forget the horrible quality put into the small ticket items that pay for the electric bill.   I still would not trust Triac without a representative inspector living there and watching to prevent crap from happening.  Passion for the best trimaran would be good, but passion for the $$$ is what you get from them.

Isn't @Paul Koch that person? 

I recall hearing that he was away / on leave during that period of defective SeaRail builds.

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5 hours ago, Pantouf said:

 

   
Ready to sail normally      10.745 kgs
     

So with the now accurately measured weight, the owner/rep now finally have a precise weight for their boat and the 10,5 tonnes when the boat actually starts sailing still stands, as predicted some month ago. 

Wow... 23,700 pounds sailing weight... and with not allot of gear weight compared to what we have aboard our 40 foot Trimaran currently on a circumnavigation. 

That seems  a huge displacement number in the world of trimarans. But how she sails offshore is what matters... I am curious at what true wind speed the windward ama has lifted completely clear of the water when going to windward at say a 50 degree AWA

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I guess the C foil option would ADD to the weight - are M&M sure that puppy is still gonna fly?

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On 7/1/2021 at 8:26 AM, Wess said:

Congrats Paul. Very happy for your well deserved success and nice to see facts to address the bullshit from the couch potatoes. Oddly those nutters putted themselves so it’s nice to know who not to do business with I’m that area of the world. On e other hand I hope to have the chance to do business with you and can’t wait to see one of the 40s. Regards.

Wess  - Mr Pantouf’s most recent gig was to deliver some kind of floating device from Curaçao to Palma - for a living - and he was interested in buying a cruising trimaran, viz-a-viz a Rapido -  he sure don’t sound like a couch potato.

He bowed out when the shit slinging started but he’s back - warts and all - and sounds knowledgeable.

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We will have to agree to disagree on that one Boardhead.  Learning what I have I would not have that individual deliver my Laser across a pond nor would I use the management company be outed.  Not wasting my time here.  Too many posers and too much BS.  When I want to talk Rapido I talk with Paul or owners directly and get truth that way.

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"mast, boom, rigging 492 kgs" - this is all carbon? - and not steel rigging ? Isnt that abit heavy...? 

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On 7/6/2021 at 10:21 AM, SeaGul said:

"mast, boom, rigging 492 kgs" - this is all carbon? - and not steel rigging ? Isnt that abit heavy...? 

All the spars have to be strong when the crew weighs in at 125 kgs/person.

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On 7/6/2021 at 5:08 AM, MultiThom said:

Let's not forget the crap work done on the last SeaRail builds.  It's all well and good to preen with the accomplishment of a big job, but it is deceitful to forget the horrible quality put into the small ticket items that pay for the electric bill.   I still would not trust Triac without a representative inspector living there and watching to prevent crap from happening.  Passion for the best trimaran would be good, but passion for the $$$ is what you get from them.

Serious question, what do you guys want from Paul? Do you want a disclaimer at the bottom of every post that acknowledges the Rapido 50 is a bit heavy and they did a poor job on some SeaRails? We get it. We all know it now. Some things haven’t worked out well. It’s plastered all over this forum. Anyone can find it in a search.

But please, it doesn’t need to get brought up every single time he posts. It’s tiresome.

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1 hour ago, jmurph said:

Serious question, what do you guys want from Paul? Do you want a disclaimer at the bottom of every post that acknowledges the Rapido 50 is a bit heavy and they did a poor job on some SeaRails? We get it. We all know it now. Some things haven’t worked out well. It’s plastered all over this forum. Anyone can find it in a search.

But please, it doesn’t need to get brought up every single time he posts. It’s tiresome.

Tiresome to bail out my boat after every sail, as well.   Kinda keeps the resentment fresh.

What do I want?  Serious answer, delete this thread.  Then there won't be any more bashing and you can go look at his brochures or website instead of getting any information that might help someone keep from making a half million dollar error.  I'd say this 2 year stint of free advertising should be sufficient.   

I do find it interesting from a human nature perspective, though, that folks who want a big trimaran are more than willing--eager, even--to bash folks who have had first hand knowledge about what comes out of triac corporation.  To be fair, like any company,  their problems are not more numerous than their failures or they would not survive.  Quality, though, is not a high priority with triac (or at least it wasn't with my boat).  

 

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I very much appreciate Paul and Rapido engaging here and the openness in discussing a range of questions and issues related to their boats. I particularly look forward to hearing more about the 40 as the first boats launch and get some miles behind them, assuming Paul manages to hang in here that long.

Could there be even more transparency? Of course, but this is already pretty groundbreaking in the yachting world. The number of companies worldwide willing to do this is very low, and where I can I try to reward such practice with my business and/or by referring friends.

There is no shortage of people with axes to grind in forums on every subject and in every corner of the internet, unfortunately, and I agree it does quickly become tiresome. The ignore function exists for such folks and I do find it helps.

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21 hours ago, MultiThom said:

Tiresome to bail out my boat after every sail, as well.   Kinda keeps the resentment fresh.

What do I want?  Serious answer, delete this thread.  Then there won't be any more bashing and you can go look at his brochures or website instead of getting any information that might help someone keep from making a half million dollar error.  I'd say this 2 year stint of free advertising should be sufficient.   

I do find it interesting from a human nature perspective, though, that folks who want a big trimaran are more than willing--eager, even--to bash folks who have had first hand knowledge about what comes out of triac corporation.  To be fair, like any company,  their problems are not more numerous than their failures or they would not survive.  Quality, though, is not a high priority with triac (or at least it wasn't with my boat).  

 

He offered to fix your boat and you declined.  You even mentioned that you preferred it not to be fixed so you could keep bashing the company.  So you got exactly want you wanted.  Most who have read the whole thread think Paul handled it well.

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As with any boat the proof is in how it performs. Why even speculate until the boats have done a few races and cruises and we hear from the owners, not the speculators.

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On 7/7/2021 at 4:41 PM, garland823 said:

All the spars have to be strong when the crew weighs in at 125 kgs/person.

...ok finally some use correct person weights .... 

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Take an overall look at the Rapido development -they are doing all the right things - using the best designers - and have a great range of very interesting and good boats. Making most stuff in carbon - its all there - ok it can be some issues but they do many things just right. But its turbulent now with rising prices of materials and transport etc. They have to make money - and that can be hard to do in this situation. The 40s seems very low priced - hope they will pull it off. 

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13 hours ago, eastern motors said:

He offered to fix your boat and you declined.  You even mentioned that you preferred it not to be fixed so you could keep bashing the company.  So you got exactly want you wanted.  Most who have read the whole thread think Paul handled it well.

PK Never offered to fix the boat.  Was coerced into making an offer to PAY to HAVE my boat fixed--there is a difference.  I Never stated that I preferred to keep it leaking but I do enjoy bashing PK and triac for the same reason I bash anything/one else, they avoid accepting responsibility for their mistakes.  Their momma didn't raise them right.  

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6 hours ago, MultiThom said:

PK Never offered to fix the boat.  Was coerced into making an offer to PAY to HAVE my boat fixed--there is a difference.  I Never stated that I preferred to keep it leaking but I do enjoy bashing PK and triac for the same reason I bash anything/one else, they avoid accepting responsibility for their mistakes.  Their momma didn't raise them right.  

The fact that He offered to pay to have your boat fixed IS taking responsibility. Let’s face it, you probably didn’t want him fixing it anyway?

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50 minutes ago, smj said:

The fact that He offered to pay to have your boat fixed IS taking responsibility. Let’s face it, you probably didn’t want him fixing it anyway?

If triac were taking responsibility, they would have offered to pay for ALL of the boats in that lot to get fixed since triac screwed every one of them up.  Better yet, a stand up company would never have let crap work leave the facility--but QC is not triac's forte--which is why I would be leery buying anything from them.   Root cause, triac broke one of the moulds supplied by searail-yah, shit happens.  They made the replacement wrong--gee shit happened again.  At final assembly they noticed that the two parts didn't fit on ALL of the boats in the group--OOPS.   Instead of correcting the error and redoing the entire lot of half hulls, they bashed each one together and hid the crap work--shit happening is a routine.    Caveat Emptor all you rapido wannabes.  

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1 hour ago, smj said:

The fact that He offered to pay to have your boat fixed IS taking responsibility

Wow, I've had @MultiThom on ignore since he deleted a very informative thread in a huff.  Many thoughtful replies were lost due to his selfish petulance.  This latest bit from him that you quoted ("I do enjoy bashing PK") confirms my decision at that time to ignore him.  I hope @Paul Koch does the same.  What a turd!

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18 hours ago, MultiThom said:

If triac were taking responsibility, they would have offered to pay for ALL of the boats in that lot to get fixed since triac screwed every one of them up.  Better yet, a stand up company would never have let crap work leave the facility--but QC is not triac's forte--which is why I would be leery buying anything from them.   Root cause, triac broke one of the moulds supplied by searail-yah, shit happens.  They made the replacement wrong--gee shit happened again.  At final assembly they noticed that the two parts didn't fit on ALL of the boats in the group--OOPS.   Instead of correcting the error and redoing the entire lot of half hulls, they bashed each one together and hid the crap work--shit happening is a routine.    Caveat Emptor all you rapido wannabes.  

You are absolutely full of shit , you need to go back to you seller , Phil Medly who supervised and built the boats . No one give a flying  F#$% about your searail on this thread. PK has done more for the trimaran community over the last 30 years then people relies and the Rapido range of boats which is ground breaking for performance cruising tris are clearly out of your league. just fuck off. 

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I have known MultiThom to be someone whose opinion is based on experience. Is there some bad feelings on his experiences with Triac, maybe, but that is no reason to ignore/disrespect his feedback.

I'd be willing to bet that he spends as much ,if not more, time on the water than his detractors. 

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2 hours ago, oldsurfer said:

I have known MultiThom to be someone whose opinion is based on experience. Is there some bad feelings on his experiences with Triac, maybe, but that is no reason to ignore/disrespect his feedback.

I'd be willing to bet that he spends as much ,if not more, time on the water than his detractors. 

I’ll take that bet!

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Spotted in Palma at the STP boat yard, the Rapido 50. Briefly spoke to the boat manager Marco (the guy in the photo) as we were about to be lifted out of the water, so I couldn´t stay long. Lots of repairs and changes happening. He said seatrials were succesful, although in light winds and a flat sea and with the main and solent only, but the folding remains a "shit show" as he described it. But they are changing the logistics of it all and try and get this resolved to a usable and safe folding system. Marco was more positive about things than the last time I spoke to him. He said a tremendous amount of work has been done and still needs to be done, but he is pretty optimistic it will all come together. He also mentioned Paul Koch (he had just spoken to him on whatsapp) is now more on the "team", which is helpful.

He mentioned he posted some sailing videos on his companie´s FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/palmamaritime/videos/805094223526083

You can find 3 more videos there.

It does look a cool boat, when you see it folded out like that. Many (super)yachties stop and look at it.1626425570384.thumb.jpg.645554de0237cec045482ff1aecb3d2d.jpg1626425570395.thumb.jpg.5f49447860afa8a01a424f28cbcbbc9b.jpg1626425570400.thumb.jpg.9339966032722826f2c7e4d654c5e46d.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Hey @Paul Koch

I keep hearing great things about these boats.  What are your plans around the Fall/Winter US east coast boat shows?  Would love to see, sail, and climb all over one of these. 

Cheers!

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13 hours ago, Wess said:

Hey @Paul Koch

I keep hearing great things about these boats.  What are your plans around the Fall/Winter US east coast boat shows?  Would love to see, sail, and climb all over one of these. 

Cheers!

Hi Wess, thanks to the covid virus shutting down Vietnam for at least 3 months our plans have been thrown out the window again . We were going to be at Canne in France and Annapolis but now impossible due to the total shutdown here  . Miami Boat show is our new target IF we are allowed to get back to work . Western world , please send more vaccines to Vietnam , we are very happy to take them , no antivaccers here ! Only way out of this nightmare .

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4 hours ago, Paul Koch said:

Hi Wess, thanks to the covid virus shutting down Vietnam for at least 3 months our plans have been thrown out the window again . We were going to be at Canne in France and Annapolis but now impossible due to the total shutdown here  . Miami Boat show is our new target IF we are allowed to get back to work . Western world , please send more vaccines to Vietnam , we are very happy to take them , no antivaccers here ! Only way out of this nightmare .

Understood; thanks for the update.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would like to encourage Paul and all of the other multihull manufacturers.  There are many obstacles and difficulties for all and no one knows when things will become “normal” again.  It can be assumed that supply (of new boats) will be outstripped by demand for some time and that “late model” used boats will be scarce on the market.  Prices will go up.  NOW would be the time for those who would want to be sailing to lock up your place in the “order” line or to buy that late model used.  “You snooze, you…….(you know).

There is another YouTube video about the Rapido 50.  I don’t know how to post it.

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On 6/17/2021 at 5:34 PM, estarzinger said:

Trade-off with large % ama and big waves =  slapping/slamming?

That is a comment from Chris White re: offshore cruising tri's - specifically about his hammerhead design but it was a general comment.  He thought the Hammerhead best compromise (again for cruising) was quite a bit under 200%.


Erik Lerouge designs have remarkable big floats. Fast units. 

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26 minutes ago, hannibalhouse said:

Should consider starting a new one since this has nothing to do with Rapidos.  I wonder why you would want a taller stick since the lighter weight in carbon, for me, would be better to pack more "stuff" for extended cruising.  

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  • 4 weeks later...

As owner of ineffable good to see so much interest in the Rapidos. All i can add is that they are so much fun to sail with generous accomodation. And so safe! The 60 has the board inthe middle so when we got hit by a 45 knot squall with a full rig the boat heeled 15 degrees as there wasn't enough board left in the water to trip over. So we just  did a rather swift quarter turn and carried on! 

My boat is for sale now at a very reasonable price and you get an awful lot of high tech boat for your money.... It has been a complete joy to own as its so easy to get at everything and maintain. 

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The windward ama is 'taking' in this one:

 

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8 hours ago, SVNeko said:

I thought a 40 was to have been launched by now, but here and at the Rapido website - crickets.

Some say Vietnam is locked down due to COVID and lots of things under construction there have halted.

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These Youtube videos are not by Rapido. They were posted a while ago on the FB page of the company that looks after this boat and runs the repair and revamp project. I posted something about it in this thread several months ago. So @SVNeko ´s comment is right. Cricket sounds it is.

But @gspot is also correct in stating Vietnam has been in a lockdown. And a brutal one. A friend of mine is a manager in a hotel in HCMC and all was totally closed for 3 months. Police and army patrolling the streets. 

The Rapido 50 is sailing though. I have seen it in the Bay of Palma. I will leave it at that.

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On 7/8/2021 at 8:16 AM, svendson said:

I very much appreciate Paul and Rapido engaging here and the openness in discussing a range of questions and issues related to their boats. I particularly look forward to hearing more about the 40 as the first boats launch and get some miles behind them, assuming Paul manages to hang in here that long.

Could there be even more transparency? Of course, but this is already pretty groundbreaking in the yachting world. The number of companies worldwide willing to do this is very low, and where I can I try to reward such practice with my business and/or by referring friends.

There is no shortage of people with axes to grind in forums on every subject and in every corner of the internet, unfortunately, and I agree it does quickly become tiresome. The ignore function exists for such folks and I do find it helps.

Hi

IF you google ineffable boat you will see how much fun I have had with a Rapido 60. We have bombed 130 ft super yachts who with 50 people on the rail were doing a mere 13.5 knots. We were in the shade drinking gin and tonics whilst they were painfully hanging out. We came in at nearly 20 knots and hardened up to go 17 knots leaving them in the distance. What made me laugh was that a Rapido 60 has 55 tons of lift from the floats so we are able to put down 6x more power than such a big boat. you havent lived until you have sailed a trimaran. It is so much better than a cat. no pounding on the underside or getting thrown around. but not perhaps such a good houseboat if you need to entertain to be popular....

I am sorry to hear the 50 has problems with the folding mechanism ... my 60 was bolted so you could still take it apart but is now fully glued so no issues at all.

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So if the amas have 55 tons of "float" and are 300% she weighs 18 tons?!?!?! Or at 200% she displaces 27.5 tons and then again the more conservative 150% ratio porks her up to 36 tons - OMG!!

Just messing with you but you kinda asked for it:D

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On 11/9/2021 at 9:44 PM, Merlin said:

Hi

IF you google ineffable boat you will see how much fun I have had with a Rapido 60. We have bombed 130 ft super yachts who with 50 people on the rail were doing a mere 13.5 knots. We were in the shade drinking gin and tonics whilst they were painfully hanging out. We came in at nearly 20 knots and hardened up to go 17 knots leaving them in the distance. What made me laugh was that a Rapido 60 has 55 tons of lift from the floats so we are able to put down 6x more power than such a big boat. you havent lived until you have sailed a trimaran. It is so much better than a cat. no pounding on the underside or getting thrown around. but not perhaps such a good houseboat if you need to entertain to be popular....

I am sorry to hear the 50 has problems with the folding mechanism ... my 60 was bolted so you could still take it apart but is now fully glued so no issues at all.

Hey @Merlin, of course you are faster than most monohulls. When you say you bombed a 130ft super yacht, it is like comparing a Porsche 911 S Turbo with a Rolls Royce Phantom Extended. However I think the owner of the 130ft Super Yacht would probably faint if you invited him on your Rapido 60. It is a totally different concept, way of use and different world where money is concerned and how people live their lives and the toys they own. The only thing they share is that they float and are powered by wind. And, i.e. you try and find a mooring in Europe with your Rapido 60. I wish you luck. But, in Australia or New Zealand, it is probably no problem to moor a large trimaran.

I have taken the view there is no point in comparing boats, where cats, tri´s or monohulls are concerned. I like the speed and seamotion of tri´s and some (proper) sailing cats. The interior space in tri´s sucks, already better in a monohull and much better in a cat. But I prefer the sailing sensation of a monohull sailing high up wind, the boat heeled and plugging away at it. I have (day) sailed on a Volvo Open 70 in a force 6 to 7. It was the most awesome sailing experience in my life. Well, till now, as I may be invited to sail on one of the large, French foiling tri´s. That must be orgasmic!

In conclusion, you buy what you want and feel suits your sailing needs and budget and, where Europe is concerned: can you park it somewhere at a reasonable price. 

 

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On 11/10/2021 at 9:44 AM, Merlin said:

... my 60 was bolted so you could still take it apart but is now fully glued so no issues at all.

So I am left wondering what "glued" means? Could you elaborate?

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5 hours ago, eastern motors said:

Epoxied.  

5200 would do a better job - Hey, are we second guessing Rapido"s development mods here while we await news on (for me) the more important 40 footer launch and sailing impressions.

55 tons of lift in the amas on the 60 is incorrect so best not debate the more complex structural beam attachment issue, might get real confusing.

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On 11/10/2021 at 9:44 AM, Merlin said:

I am sorry to hear the 50 has problems with the folding mechanism ... my 60 was bolted so you could still take it apart but is now fully glued so no issues at all.

I was asking the owner (Merlin) before jumping to conclusions about what "glued" might refer to?  

... and to 'elaborate' on his/her comment. 

So Merlin,

Could you please elaborate on this. Why it was done? How it was done (i.e. did you only 'epoxy' the bolts, all the contact surfaces, or use cloth and epoxy to close the demountable joints.  Was this done only out of an abundance of caution, or was it done to correct something you noted while sailing.

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4 hours ago, 2flit said:

I was asking the owner (Merlin) before jumping to conclusions about what "glued" might refer to?  

... and to 'elaborate' on his/her comment. 

So Merlin,

Could you please elaborate on this. Why it was done? How it was done (i.e. did you only 'epoxy' the bolts, all the contact surfaces, or use cloth and epoxy to close the demountable joints.  Was this done only out of an abundance of caution, or was it done to correct something you noted while sailing.

I will jump in here .  The Rapido 60 was built with beams that plugged in to sockets mainly to save money for shipping . However we sailed the first one for 18 months with the boat held together by the 4 bolts and the rig and the highly tensioned nets . This was fine and probably would be still . 

There was some noise that came from the minute amount of movement as loads came on and off that was more disconcerting and a bit loud and annoying in big seas than a real issue .

So as there was little likely hood that we would not be shipping the boat again we literally coated the beams in epoxy and glued it together forever .  There is now no noise or movement . Same goes for Romanza.

The Rapido 50 and Rapido 40 use quite different systems . The Rapido 50 sails very well , like all brand new ideas had a few bugs but now well on the way to being sorted . We could go from folded to sailing in 15 minutes after a bit of practise .

The First Rapido 40 will be finally sailing next month after we overcome 3 months of total covid lockdown which closed our factory for the whole time . We are now back in full production with 100% of our staff fully vaccinated and happy to be back at work earning a living .

 

 

 

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