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2019 Aussie Nationals


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  • 3 months later...

Looking like a good fleet in Div 1 with a bunch of Extreme 40's as well as a Tf10 and the classic Ulman Sails. Div 2 has a couple of 075's and a Sprint as well as a few big boats. Would be great to see a few more of the trailables here. A show down between the G'nome and the Evil Gnome would be entertaining. 

https://www.topyacht.com.au/db/kb/entrants_display.php?SeriesID=6671&Task=ShowSeriesEntrants&EventID=1088

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48 minutes ago, Evil Gnome said:

Evil Gnome is on it's way.

Always wanted to do Airlie but something always came up, not this year. Looked at Hammo as well but way too expensive.

Great news, let us know if you need a hand with anything. Can help out with trailer storage if needed. Div 2 really starting to look healthy now. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Being a novice at this if I can't store my trailer at the marina then yes this would be helpful.

Getting very close now and getting the boat off the water from Wangi, there are many things to do more than I thought.

Did I say again that I HATE SEAGULLS!

As far as the battle of the gnomes go, will GOOD beat EVIL?

Getting excited now but not looking forward to the drive, only 20 hours solo. 

 

 

 

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On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 8:26 PM, Evil Gnome said:

Being a novice at this if I can't store my trailer at the marina then yes this would be helpful.

Getting very close now and getting the boat off the water from Wangi, there are many things to do more than I thought.

Did I say again that I HATE SEAGULLS!

As far as the battle of the gnomes go, will GOOD beat EVIL?

Getting excited now but not looking forward to the drive, only 20 hours solo. 

 

 

 

Looking forward to meeting you when you get here, is there any thing you need and is there any measuring or weighing to be done on your boat .Have a good trip it is a long drive be safe .

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

A lot of fun so far,  and plenty of repairs today on the lay day, with done good footage appearing online. The Grammar Boy Nacras are entertaining us heaps,  enjoy this one. 

 

 

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On 8/11/2019 at 10:56 PM, plywoodboy said:

A lot of fun so far,  and plenty of repairs today on the lay day, with done good footage appearing online. The Grammar Boy Nacras are entertaining us heaps,  enjoy this one. 

 

 

Hi Peter, I have seen you on Sailing Anarchy and see that you are in the know. I am a crew for Bill Gibbs who had Afterburner for many years and now has a Shonining G1400,  Wahoo, which we race in So California, but racing participation is dying here, it seems there is more multihull racing in Australia and I wonder if there a chance for us to come visit and either crew or charter a boat for a series of races in 2020 or 2021

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Great week of racing with a good mix of wind, courses, currents and races.

Airlie Beach is a good place to lose your crew at night time, which happened regularly, but they turned up every morning for the 8.30 coffee call.I think the term is feeling a bit crusty.

Special mention to the committee for a good time. Liked the idea in the morning of getting an SMS for the classes and courses and time to start but especially  liked the SMS sign on asking you whether you intended to sail and how many crew onboard. Instantaneous and job done and out of the way. Also after the first day the results were done promptly and posted.Very efficient.

Good job to all the sailors and boats that made the drive up and made  great competitive fleets.

Any way after 6 days driving 4000 k's  by myself, (the rockstar crew and wife and daughter flew)   6 long days of sailing, sick as a dog and now home recovering would I  do it again,  yes I would it was a good time, maybe get a driver to help next time.

PS heaps of great photos on the Airlie Race Week page under gallery.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Evil Gnome said:

Great week of racing with a good mix of wind, courses, currents and races.

Airlie Beach is a good place to lose your crew at night time, which happened regularly, but they turned up every morning for the 8.30 coffee call.I think the term is feeling a bit crusty.

Special mention to the committee for a good time. Liked the idea in the morning of getting an SMS for the classes and courses and time to start but especially  liked the SMS sign on asking you whether you intended to sail and how many crew onboard. Instantaneous and job done and out of the way. Also after the first day the results were done promptly and posted.Very efficient.

Good job to all the sailors and boats that made the drive up and made  great competitive fleets.

Any way after 6 days driving 4000 k's  by myself, (the rockstar crew and wife and daughter flew)   6 long days of sailing, sick as a dog and now home recovering would I  do it again,  yes I would it was a good time, maybe get a driver to help next time.

PS heaps of great photos on the Airlie Race Week page under gallery.

 

 

Congrats on what i'm told was a well deserved win......I'd be keen next year if I don't take my boat....

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On 8/21/2019 at 9:24 AM, Evil Gnome said:

Great week of racing with a good mix of wind, courses, currents and races.

Airlie Beach is a good place to lose your crew at night time, which happened regularly, but they turned up every morning for the 8.30 coffee call.I think the term is feeling a bit crusty.

Special mention to the committee for a good time. Liked the idea in the morning of getting an SMS for the classes and courses and time to start but especially  liked the SMS sign on asking you whether you intended to sail and how many crew onboard. Instantaneous and job done and out of the way. Also after the first day the results were done promptly and posted.Very efficient.

Good job to all the sailors and boats that made the drive up and made  great competitive fleets.

Any way after 6 days driving 4000 k's  by myself, (the rockstar crew and wife and daughter flew)   6 long days of sailing, sick as a dog and now home recovering would I  do it again,  yes I would it was a good time, maybe get a driver to help next time.

PS heaps of great photos on the Airlie Race Week page under gallery.

 

 

Thanks for making the effort. It was the first time for us to have really close boat on boat racing and Terry was stoked, even joked about finding someone to take the G'nome Sth for the next Nationals. Cheers and hope to see you next year. 

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On 8/21/2019 at 9:24 AM, Evil Gnome said:

Great week of racing with a good mix of wind, courses, currents and races.

Airlie Beach is a good place to lose your crew at night time, which happened regularly, but they turned up every morning for the 8.30 coffee call.I think the term is feeling a bit crusty.

Special mention to the committee for a good time. Liked the idea in the morning of getting an SMS for the classes and courses and time to start but especially  liked the SMS sign on asking you whether you intended to sail and how many crew onboard. Instantaneous and job done and out of the way. Also after the first day the results were done promptly and posted.Very efficient.

Good job to all the sailors and boats that made the drive up and made  great competitive fleets.

Any way after 6 days driving 4000 k's  by myself, (the rockstar crew and wife and daughter flew)   6 long days of sailing, sick as a dog and now home recovering would I  do it again,  yes I would it was a good time, maybe get a driver to help next time.

PS heaps of great photos on the Airlie Race Week page under gallery.

 

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the regatta .Next time come and introduce yourself at the club we are a happy party bunch that just like to talk boats ,The relationships you build usually keep people coming back . Hope to see you next year .

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On 8/28/2019 at 8:00 PM, Hangtime said:

Shoot Pil

 

That's a bit harsh Wazza.... I am curious to hear the wash up of OMR handicaps from recent events and what will be looked at in future if anyone would like to share... It shouldn't be a sensitive issue and where better than Anarchy

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5 hours ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

That's a bit harsh Wazza.... I am curious to hear the wash up of OMR handicaps from recent events and what will be looked at in future if anyone would like to share... It shouldn't be a sensitive issue and where better than Anarchy

Relax Pil….. No disrespect intended.

  I thought by your question that you had something to offer.?

Forgive me for misinterpreting your Question.

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On 8/30/2019 at 7:57 PM, Hangtime said:

Relax Pil….. No disrespect intended.

  I thought by your question that you had something to offer.?

Forgive me for misinterpreting your Question.

Hahaha.... I wasn't there so I'm not sure how it all ended or whether the handicappers now need some time to analyse the results.... Hope it works out ... 

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Posting here a relevant fb response to some questions raised from up north so I can clear my desk.

Probably a better place for y'all to discuss than fb ?

 

 

So glad I didn’t visit this stuff for a few weeks, it would really have helped my decision to pull out of the OMR job earlier, with any of you welcome to take over for a while. I will therefore respond to as much as I can generally with no names. Suffice to say the online and personal attacks particularly in the last few weeks often based on little or no knowledge did not help the situation. Yes, I have thrown all my toys out of the cot.

So, addressing many of the rating related comments for my last time:

OMR, which is no longer just for offshore boats, is simply a set of mathematical formulae used to produce as fair as possible a rating for comparing different boats. Sometimes it seems to do a good job, but it is still just a rating based on what the committee believes makes a boat fast. Longer lighter boats with big sail area get high ratings based on power functions calculated on length, weight, and sail area.

A national champion on OMR is not necessarily the best IMHO but is among the best. The third-place guys might have sailed better! Sorry, but it is just a calculation supporting a guess which is based on measurements but GUIDED BY PERFORMANCE. Sorry, but there is no formula yet that lets you know how much faster a boat 11 m long is compared to 10 m long, let alone deal with canting rig, foils, or cat versus tri. So, we use our reactive processes to look at how fairly the rule is comparing those 2 boats and try to take into account the crew performance whenever we have a review of the rule, usually every couple of years. In the last review you may remember the little boats were getting punished, and the big heavy boats were getting rewarded, so those aspects were carefully addressed with changes to the mathematical equations. I think the video of those changes is still on the MYCQ site. Occasionally a boat you did not want to help will get a free ride as soon as you make a change and IMHO the Diam 24 gained a lot from that last change but only above 8 knots. Under 8 knots they are a pig (which I tried to ride at Airlie last year), so nobody seems to be too unhappy about that bogeyman lately. Noe of them sailing much takes them off the discussion table too.

All handicapping discussions in the pub focus on the bogeyman (BM) who got it too easy, and this year it was the foiler because almost racially it stood out like a sore thumb. Funny thing is everyone last year were calling the X40 the BM but with 4 of them out there they become the new norm and who do we pick on now? Mmm…

One comment was about lack of time given to collect data on the foiling penalty for this brand new boat Are we expected to tell these guys (who have thrown a lot into multihull racing for decades) to go away until we are confident of a rating? It only hit the water weeks before the events, be real!

It should not officially be competing for the series... , love to see how excluding MM would pan out legally FFS.

So after examining the info available, for the Airlie Nationals Geoff Cruse wisely decided to hit Mad Max (MM) with an extra 7.5% foiling factor. Being a nationals, it seemed better to err on the side of toughness. History shows that she underperformed with plenty of issues and the guys themselves admit they were having trouble sailing the new beast. Even with no factor they would have been beaten. The other side of this is the almost daily phone calls I was getting from the MM skipper pleading for a rating relief. So with Hammo just being more of a fun series Geoff told me to remove the factor altogether. OMG that was the end of the world as we know it in some minds.

With better breezes and long legs at Hammo, MM indeed improved and even won a heat where only 4 boats finished, by 14 seconds, and another where 6 of the small fleet of 7 finished, by 34 seconds. Big frigging deal. Her final place was 2nd overall and I would argue that the dropout rate of the non-racing X40’s contributed more to her winning than MM’s foils.

Yes, the TF10 had great media hype like any new kid, I also was impressed with all the marketing flight videos of this supposed “gentlemen’s foiler”, but in all the copious amounts of chopper and boat filmed video and pictures I still have not seen any evidence of fast level flight. I was on the same course at Airlie and a different course at Hammo but we often crossed them and she looked just like another picklefork, but blue. Either this one is different to the rest of the TF10’s or the crew need replacing!    

We still need to wait for more performance data because that is all we have until NASA lends us a few experts to definitively tell us what performance improvement the foil 3d shapes should yield. Maybe the AC75 crew can help us. Heck, we don’t even know what part of the foils to measure. The IRC take a few measurements of foils and their document says “The IRC Rating Authority reserves the right to require additional detail to be supplied and also to modify the above definitions on a case by case basis”. Any light bulbs coming on out there?

One day we might have a separately scored foiling division, as well as the usual separated divisions, and that should cool things down a little, but until then with fleets of widely varying boats we just have to be patient. In this case the new kid on the block was just that, and as sportsmen we should all work better to build our fleet, not polarise it.  

 Peter H

 

 

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23 hours ago, plywoodboy said:

Posting here a relevant fb response to some questions raised from up north so I can clear my desk.

Probably a better place for y'all to discuss than fb ?

 

 

 

So glad I didn’t visit this stuff for a few weeks, it would really have helped my decision to pull out of the OMR job earlier, with any of you welcome to take over for a while. I will therefore respond to as much as I can generally with no names. Suffice to say the online and personal attacks particularly in the last few weeks often based on little or no knowledge did not help the situation. Yes, I have thrown all my toys out of the cot.

 

So, addressing many of the rating related comments for my last time:

 

OMR, which is no longer just for offshore boats, is simply a set of mathematical formulae used to produce as fair as possible a rating for comparing different boats. Sometimes it seems to do a good job, but it is still just a rating based on what the committee believes makes a boat fast. Longer lighter boats with big sail area get high ratings based on power functions calculated on length, weight, and sail area.

 

A national champion on OMR is not necessarily the best IMHO but is among the best. The third-place guys might have sailed better! Sorry, but it is just a calculation supporting a guess which is based on measurements but GUIDED BY PERFORMANCE. Sorry, but there is no formula yet that lets you know how much faster a boat 11 m long is compared to 10 m long, let alone deal with canting rig, foils, or cat versus tri. So, we use our reactive processes to look at how fairly the rule is comparing those 2 boats and try to take into account the crew performance whenever we have a review of the rule, usually every couple of years. In the last review you may remember the little boats were getting punished, and the big heavy boats were getting rewarded, so those aspects were carefully addressed with changes to the mathematical equations. I think the video of those changes is still on the MYCQ site. Occasionally a boat you did not want to help will get a free ride as soon as you make a change and IMHO the Diam 24 gained a lot from that last change but only above 8 knots. Under 8 knots they are a pig (which I tried to ride at Airlie last year), so nobody seems to be too unhappy about that bogeyman lately. Noe of them sailing much takes them off the discussion table too.

 

All handicapping discussions in the pub focus on the bogeyman (BM) who got it too easy, and this year it was the foiler because almost racially it stood out like a sore thumb. Funny thing is everyone last year were calling the X40 the BM but with 4 of them out there they become the new norm and who do we pick on now? Mmm…

 

One comment was about lack of time given to collect data on the foiling penalty for this brand new boat Are we expected to tell these guys (who have thrown a lot into multihull racing for decades) to go away until we are confident of a rating? It only hit the water weeks before the events, be real!

 

It should not officially be competing for the series... , love to see how excluding MM would pan out legally FFS.

 

So after examining the info available, for the Airlie Nationals Geoff Cruse wisely decided to hit Mad Max (MM) with an extra 7.5% foiling factor. Being a nationals, it seemed better to err on the side of toughness. History shows that she underperformed with plenty of issues and the guys themselves admit they were having trouble sailing the new beast. Even with no factor they would have been beaten. The other side of this is the almost daily phone calls I was getting from the MM skipper pleading for a rating relief. So with Hammo just being more of a fun series Geoff told me to remove the factor altogether. OMG that was the end of the world as we know it in some minds.

 

With better breezes and long legs at Hammo, MM indeed improved and even won a heat where only 4 boats finished, by 14 seconds, and another where 6 of the small fleet of 7 finished, by 34 seconds. Big frigging deal. Her final place was 2nd overall and I would argue that the dropout rate of the non-racing X40’s contributed more to her winning than MM’s foils.

 

Yes, the TF10 had great media hype like any new kid, I also was impressed with all the marketing flight videos of this supposed “gentlemen’s foiler”, but in all the copious amounts of chopper and boat filmed video and pictures I still have not seen any evidence of fast level flight. I was on the same course at Airlie and a different course at Hammo but we often crossed them and she looked just like another picklefork, but blue. Either this one is different to the rest of the TF10’s or the crew need replacing!    

 

We still need to wait for more performance data because that is all we have until NASA lends us a few experts to definitively tell us what performance improvement the foil 3d shapes should yield. Maybe the AC75 crew can help us. Heck, we don’t even know what part of the foils to measure. The IRC take a few measurements of foils and their document says “The IRC Rating Authority reserves the right to require additional detail to be supplied and also to modify the above definitions on a case by case basis”. Any light bulbs coming on out there?

 

One day we might have a separately scored foiling division, as well as the usual separated divisions, and that should cool things down a little, but until then with fleets of widely varying boats we just have to be patient. In this case the new kid on the block was just that, and as sportsmen we should all work better to build our fleet, not polarise it.  

 

 

 Peter H

 

 

 

 

Well said Peter . Normally the louder someone disagrees with the rule the bigger the ego and less the skill .Just my experience .

I find this well written and a and a down to earth look at the rule .If people are winging they might need to look at their own sailing first .

Thanks Peter for all the time you have put into OMR over the years .

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Thanks for all the effort that you have put in over the years, I am sure it is a challenging job that you have done very well.

nearly impossible to handicap a foiling trimaran or a formula 40 open beachcat type boat against a cruising offshore multihull.

Simply need different divisions.

OMR works very well when comparing like for like boats.

This was demonstrated at Hammo where many fast boats chose to sail in PHF rather than OMR simply because they can not compete with the hull flying, foiling machines. (And the PHf division had 30+ boats compared to 5 or 6 in the racing division)

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On 9/7/2019 at 9:35 AM, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Is it time then for a name change?

Multihull Racing Australia?...... Or maybe ARMS , Australian Racing Multihull Society. You could then have arms races......

Two separate categories:

Open: anything goes. Basic MRA (eg old OMR?) Rating. No hidden rating weightings.

Offshore: Basic MRA rating adjusted for: No lifting foils, minimum standards of accommodation related to crew numbers, limits on number of sails,  minimum  on board auxiliary power and (eg?) minimum Cat 3 safety requirements, etc.

Extra divisions in each category as and when there are enough boats to split in order to minimise size/rating spread.

In races with insufficient fleet size, the two categories could still race together,  using their respective ratings. Texel and MOCRA already do something similar?

 

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