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ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder


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8 hours ago, tillerman said:

Of course Wess may have other reasons for recommending the Sunfish. I can't even begin to understand his logic on most issues discussed here.

Its not hard to understand, Trolls just troll. A delight in irritating their fellow man is their only aim. There's no point in looking for a rational position when it simply doesn't exist. 

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1 hour ago, JimC said:

Its not hard to understand, Trolls just troll. A delight in irritating their fellow man is their only aim. There's no point in looking for a rational position when it simply doesn't exist. 

Sad.

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On 9/30/2021 at 5:36 AM, Wess said:

Get a Sunfish then.  Great multitasking boat.  And no ILCA to muck things up.

A Sunfish? With messed up knees? Not sure multitasking should include walking with crutches. Think I’ll get an old IC when I get bored. Maybe become an ILCA rep to support the class that has done so much for me over the years. 

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I totally understand why the sunfish still has a place in the USA market but don’t understand how it got there. From a uk angle, Ian proctor designed the minisail which was a better sunfish and it was the best selling dinghy in Europe for a few years, But when the laser launched it killed it stone dead , can my USA friends explain why the Laser didn’t do this to the Sunfish? I am not trying to prove a point , I am just trying to understand  USA sailing . 

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56 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

A Sunfish? With messed up knees? Not sure multitasking should include walking with crutches. Think I’ll get an old IC when I get bored. Maybe become an ILCA rep to support the class that has done so much for me over the years. 

Sorry to hear about your messed-up knees. But surely a nice comfy Sunfish would be OK?

658661105_sunfishcomfy.thumb.jpeg.10bcd3619a69385e0d6c097aa80519cf.jpeg

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1 minute ago, tillerman said:

Sorry to hear about your messed-up knees. But surely a nice comfy Sunfish would be OK?

658661105_sunfishcomfy.thumb.jpeg.10bcd3619a69385e0d6c097aa80519cf.jpeg

On days like this I play golf!

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Just now, tillerman said:

NO no no! Golf is even worse than Laser sailing for your back.

Touch wood, but have never had a back problem of any type.

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Just now, Bill5 said:

Touch wood, but have never had a back problem of any type.

I do get a big pain in the ass reading Wess’s posts, but that’s about it.

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The Laser Class will soon have some vacancies in their leadership.

Both Beat Heinz (chair) and Andreas Döring (executive secretary) will resign at the next General Meeting.

This seems like a great opportunity for Wess!

Members only: FREE tickets to the upcoming Zoom meeting (Saturday Oct 30 at 1400 CET).

Who would want to pass that up...

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22 hours ago, Wavedancer II said:

The Laser Class will soon have some vacancies in their leadership.

Both Beat Heinz (chair) and Andreas Döring (executive secretary) will resign at the next General Meeting.

This seems like a great opportunity for Wess!

Members only: FREE tickets to the upcoming Zoom meeting (Saturday Oct 30 at 1400 CET).

Who would want to pass that up...

Mention of a "challenging relationship with our boat builder."

https://www.thelaserclass.com/tlc-agm-2021/

 

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1 hour ago, Metoxi said:

Mention of a "challenging relationship with our boat builder."

https://www.thelaserclass.com/tlc-agm-2021/

 

So let's see if I have this correct. The class association set up by LP in an attempt to legitimise their boats has basically fallen out with LP because the relationship was too challenging, which is nothing new as it is exactly what happened between LP and the class association before everything went bad. Now the main players in that association are walking away. Leaving aside the non compliant issues that led to the class dumping LP, this sounds like a ringing endorsement of that decision. Yet there are still some on here who think LP are OK and that everybody else is wrong...........

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On 10/1/2021 at 8:29 PM, Wavedancer II said:

The Laser Class will soon have some vacancies in their leadership.

Both Beat Heinz (chair) and Andreas Döring (executive secretary) will resign at the next General Meeting.

This seems like a great opportunity for Wess!

Members only: FREE tickets to the upcoming Zoom meeting (Saturday Oct 30 at 1400 CET).

Who would want to pass that up...

Hey- Nowhere to go but up!

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On 10/1/2021 at 6:29 PM, Wavedancer II said:

The Laser Class will soon have some vacancies in their leadership.

Both Beat Heinz (chair) and Andreas Döring (executive secretary) will resign at the next General Meeting.

This seems like a great opportunity for Wess!

Members only: FREE tickets to the upcoming Zoom meeting (Saturday Oct 30 at 1400 CET).

Who would want to pass that up...

Abandon ship! 

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

perryflag.jpg

John Paul Jones' ship at the Battle of Flamborough Head sank at the end of the battle.

A perfect metaphor for the future of The Laser Class.

 

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Yes but who won the war Tiller? 

"Its only a flesh wound!"

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28 minutes ago, Wess said:

Yes but who won the war Tiller? 

"Its only a flesh wound!"

Now your sounding as delusional  Monty Pythons Black Knight :D

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And the number shall be three!

 

... decades until current ILCA leadership stops their idiocy and gets a NA builder!!

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If your  market could support a builder , there would be one .

End of story .

 

R.I.P ‘ The Laser Class ‘ It’s a dead parrot, it is no more. :D

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But ILCA leadership said there would be!  So it must be true!!

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

Yes but who won the war Tiller? 

 

France. If it weren't for France all you Americans would still be speaking English.

 

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By the numbers- Read'em and weep ILCA haters!

D12 2021

7 Regattas,   135 Total in district sailors, 25 Out of district visiting sailors. (final 7th regatta will be this weekend 63 boats currently registered and included in this count).

43- 4.7 er, ah those 4 rig things

59- Radial, er those 6 rig things

58- Full, ah 7 rigs

Over 10 New Zim ILCA hulls in the district and at least 4 PSA hulls.

1 New local ILCA dealer and a rep for our region who sails with us.

$1,000.00's spent and DELIVERED on new equipment.  Sails, blades, spars, (yes composite too), tillers...

Best of all 100+ D12 ILCA class members compared to 42 in 2019.  2019 was one of our best years ever as a district and 2021 has eclipsed it!

Suck it LP!

THAT is all....

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12 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

By the numbers- Read'em and weep ILCA haters!

D12 2021

7 Regattas,   135 Total in district sailors, 25 Out of district visiting sailors. (final 7th regatta will be this weekend 63 boats currently registered and included in this count).

43- 4.7 er, ah those 4 rig things

59- Radial, er those 6 rig things

58- Full, ah 7 rigs

Over 10 New Zim ILCA hulls in the district and at least 4 PSA hulls.

1 New local ILCA dealer and a rep for our region who sails with us.

$1,000.00's spent and DELIVERED on new equipment.  Sails, blades, spars, (yes composite too), tillers...

Best of all 100+ D12 ILCA class members compared to 42 in 2019.  2019 was one of our best years ever as a district and 2021 has eclipsed it!

Suck it LP!

THAT is all....

Brilliant! Keep up the good work!

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

But ILCA leadership said there would be!  So it must be true!!

I think they said they wanted one and some usa companies did apply  but dropped out early on. 
You need to ask these companies why they didn’t go forward with it , when loads of European companies did. 
 

As always you are twisting facts to fit a narrative.

I can only think you must be , a anti vaccine person or Donald Trump or Boris Johnson :D

Or more likely you might just be a silly little troll :D

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1 hour ago, tillerman said:

France. If it weren't for France all you Americans would still be speaking English.

 

The French?  Bunch of pussies.  Ran from the Germans and cant even sell a submarine.  Never mind an ILCA!!

They do produce some good multihulls and multihull sailors though I have to admit.  So they have that on ILCA.

And for gosh sake stop sending your royal rejects to our shore.  Pack out your own trash!!

 

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18 hours ago, tillerman said:

John Paul Jones' ship at the Battle of Flamborough Head sank at the end of the battle.

A perfect metaphor for the future of The Laser Class.

 

Speaking of something being run by LP.  Here's the Sunfish "Class" disclaimer in the NOR for this weekends upcoming regatta. 

"Due to supply chain issues, the Sunfish Class has permitted that non-builder parts/sails may be used temporarily at class-sanctioned regattas. Supplied materials must be relatively the same as the builder supplied, (or currently not supplied, cough) equivalent.  For example, Intensity rudder blades and sails are permitted.  AeroSouth blades are an example of parts not permitted.  Sailors who use non-builder supplied equipment are not eligible for the ISC World Championship." 

It's sooo nice to be back in control of our own supply chain!  Oh, what could have been.  Thank God it's not Wess.

BTW- I forgot to mention.  Our local ILCA supplier "High and Dry Boatworks" in Charleston donated $500 to our District to help us buy all the new annual perpetual awards, (and keeper awards) we'll be needing now due to our participation explosion.  

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11 hours ago, RobbieB said:

"Due to supply chain issues, the Sunfish Class has permitted that non-builder parts/sails may be used temporarily at class-sanctioned regattas. Supplied materials must be relatively the same as the builder supplied, (or currently not supplied, cough) equivalent. 

 

11 hours ago, RobbieB said:

It's sooo nice to be back in control of our own supply chain!  Oh, what could have been. 

Unbelievable! But at least they don't have to pay "hidden fees" on their non existent new equipment. I bet that makes the supply chain problems worthwhile.;)

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46 minutes ago, JMP said:

27min 35sec mark onwards :D

 

LP........ the gift that keeps on giving! Their money issues are a bit like "pass the parcel" - when the music stops a lot of people are going to be left with nothing while the one holding "the prize" is probably going to be disappointed! The more that comes out, the more it is clear that ILCA is well clear of them.

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On 10/5/2021 at 3:36 PM, Wess said:

But ILCA leadership said there would be!  So it must be true!!

How much longer are you gonna keep pushing the "Join the Laser Class" in your signature line?  Seems to be pretty much vapor ware now....I'm not even going to ask for the rum.

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1 hour ago, RobbieB said:

How much longer are you gonna keep pushing the "Join the Laser Class" in your signature line?  Seems to be pretty much vapor ware now....I'm not even going to ask for the rum.

I hear they have vacancies in the class leadership.  Wess, maybe you should step up.

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3 hours ago, RobbieB said:

Laser Class - "Our boat BUILDER"

ILCA- "ONE of our boat builders...."

 

just for interest i logged into the site.

 

and they have the 2020 AGM there.

and they have the budget forecast

i wonder how that one worked out.

 

image.png.e434da1efd3c13076307b8e8269cf4cf.png

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Not the least interesting part of the budget forecast is the membership fees, when the web site also says membership free until 2022... Unless of course LP LLc are paying all the membership fees...

Also interesting that its talking about "ILCA Plaque Fees Collected Sales"

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1 hour ago, JimC said:

Also interesting that its talking about "ILCA Plaque Fees Collected Sales"

Say it ain't so?!?  They're "crooks" just like ILCA?  NEVER!!!!!

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LOL see the John Pail Jones quote Robbie! The only thing worse than LPE is ILCA! 

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

LOL see the John Pail Jones quote Robbie! The only thing worse than LPE is ILCA! 

Wess , you are so delusional, you are like Trump on speed :D

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17 hours ago, Wess said:

LOL see the John Pail Jones quote Robbie! The only thing worse than LPE is ILCA! 

John PAUL Jones?  Which one?  There's a bunch of them.  Several are pretty cool and can be used directly toward LPE and The Laser Class.....and some fit the ILCA well too.

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20 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

John PAUL Jones?  Which one?  There's a bunch of them.  Several are pretty cool and can be used directly toward LPE and The Laser Class.....and some fit the ILCA well too.

This one fits @Wess. (John Paul Jones on bass.)
 


 

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Love Led Zeppelin. They are as good as current ILCA leadership is bad!!

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

Love Led Zeppelin. They are as good as current ILCA leadership is bad!!

Ahh, Wess - still Dazed and Confused. I see your Song Remains the Same.  I thought all the Communication Breakdown with the Laser Class would have you showing ILCA a Whole Lotta Love. Sure there have been Good Times Bad Times at ILCA, but they are Over the Hills and Far Away better than that Fool in the Rain -  Rasty. I realize it is a real Heartbreaker for you to lose this Battle of Evermore with Robbie, who should show you No Quarter in demanding payment of a nice bottle of rum.  Dancing Days are here for ILCA and The Laser Class is on a Stairway to Heaven (actually hell). Rock and Roll, Wess. All My Love,

Bill5

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That is pretty good Bill.  Definitely got a smile and laugh.  But ILCA still sucks.  Kinda like the Monkees.

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5 minutes ago, Wess said:

That is pretty good Bill.  Definitely got a smile and laugh.  But ILCA still sucks.  Kinda like the Monkees.

The Monkees had a song about you, @Wess.
 

 

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Sunfish Worlds. Over 100 sailors dedicated to grass roots and not playing the Olympics money game. Now in Sarasota! Woo hoo!!

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

Sunfish Worlds. Over 100 sailors dedicated to grass roots and not playing the Olympics money game. Now in Sarasota! Woo hoo!!

I sailed in the Sunfish Worlds in Sarasota in 2000, and a couple of others in the years leading up to that. In theory you had to win a slot on the US team at the Worlds based on performance in regional or national regattas, but somehow even a creature from the grass roots like me managed to sneak in. Good sailing, good times, good people.

 

 

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I wonder how they pulled that off.  I know the last few years regatta organizers were scrambling to find boats.  I would imagine a dealer ponied up to buy the whole lot, and the only way to get a new or almost new Sunfish is to buy one of the charter boats.  I bet they all get sold too.

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1 minute ago, torrid said:

I wonder how they pulled that off.  I know the last few years regatta organizers were scrambling to find boats.  I would imagine a dealer ponied up to buy the whole lot, and the only way to get a new or almost new Sunfish is to buy one of the charter boats.  I bet they all get sold too.

Yes, I understand all the charter boats will be sold after the regatta.

65735747_ScreenShot2021-10-12at9_36_43PM.thumb.png.f6a216b46782bbf309b5858907a282ec.png

 

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6 hours ago, Wess said:

Sunfish Worlds. Over 100 sailors dedicated to grass roots and not playing the Olympics money game. Now in Sarasota! Woo hoo!!

I guess I never considered sailors at World Championships in World Sailing classes as being dedicated to grass roots.  So is it solely sailors who sail Olympic classes that aren’t dedicated to grass roots? 

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7 hours ago, Bill5 said:

I guess I never considered sailors at World Championships in World Sailing classes as being dedicated to grass roots.  So is it solely sailors who sail Olympic classes that aren’t dedicated to grass roots? 

That's the beauty of the Sunfish class. You really can't get more grass-rooty than the Sunfish. Generations  of American kids grew up messing about in Sunfish. It's the ubiquitous water toy. Yet it's also a popular racing class at small scale, volunteer-run sailing clubs across the country. And it's a World Sailing Class with world championships in cool places like Italy and Bonaire and the Bahamas and Cartagena. 

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40 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

So that's where all the boats and parts are!

 

Well, if 100 sailors get their hands on new Sunfish in a few weeks time, that's a good thing for the class. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of them show up at our regattas at Massapoag YC next year.

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5 hours ago, tillerman said:

That's the beauty of the Sunfish class. You really can't get more grass-rooty than the Sunfish. Generations  of American kids grew up messing about in Sunfish. It's the ubiquitous water toy. Yet it's also a popular racing class at small scale, volunteer-run sailing clubs across the country. And it's a World Sailing Class with world championships in cool places like Italy and Bonaire and the Bahamas and Cartagena. 

No doubt it is a perfect grass roots boat. But I just don’t think of grass roots sailors going to world championships.

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1 hour ago, Bill5 said:

No doubt it is a perfect grass roots boat. But I just don’t think of grass roots sailors going to world championships.

Who here has read the book "Sail it flat" about the Sunfish class in the 60's?  It was serious stuff back then.

 

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1 hour ago, Bill5 said:

No doubt it is a perfect grass roots boat. But I just don’t think of grass roots sailors going to world championships.

That's because you are an ILCA sailor. The World Championship in the ILCA class is for the elite sailors including those with Olympic aspirations who are essentially professional sailors, training a gazillion hours every year, and for all the mommy boats that these sailors seem to need.

In many other classes, the Worlds is a joyous celebration that anyone can go to. Or if there are qualifications then they are relatively easy to meet, and many average sailors like me, aka grass-roots sailors, do take advantage of the opportunity to travel to other countries - sometimes to quite exotic locations - and tp meet people from all over the world who share our passion for the class.

You could argue that the ILCA Worlds are restricted to the best sailors because the class is so huge. And I could argue that the ILCA Worlds are for the elite because the ILCA7 and ILCA6 are in the Olympics. We both would be right. It is what it is.

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25 minutes ago, tillerman said:

That's because you are an ILCA sailor. The World Championship in the ILCA class is for the elite sailors including those with Olympic aspirations who are essentially professional sailors, training a gazillion hours every year, and for all the mommy boats that these sailors seem to need.

In many other classes, the Worlds is a joyous celebration that anyone can go to. Or if there are qualifications then they are relatively easy to meet, and many average sailors like me, aka grass-roots sailors, do take advantage of the opportunity to travel to other countries - sometimes to quite exotic locations - and tp meet people from all over the world who share our passion for the class.

You could argue that the ILCA Worlds are restricted to the best sailors because the class is so huge. And I could argue that the ILCA Worlds are for the elite because the ILCA7 and ILCA6 are in the Olympics. We both would be right. It is what it is.

I sold my Laser, but I raced other classes just as much over the years.  What I sail/sailed has no bearing on my belief. The dictionary refers to grassroots as the most basic level of activity. I believe consensus was in this thread that we would be talking about club racing activities. I don’t consider a world championship fit in any activity as grassroots. 

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5 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

I sold my Laser, but I raced other classes just as much over the years.  What I sail/sailed has no bearing on my belief. The dictionary refers to grassroots as the most basic level of activity. I believe consensus was in this thread that we would be talking about club racing activities. I don’t consider a world championship fit in any activity as grassroots. 

What consensus to talk about club-racing activities?

The subject of Olympic sailing and how ILCA's booting LP might affect the Laser's Olympic status was raised in the 4th post in this thread on March 28th 2019.
 

On 3/28/2019 at 10:44 AM, Rum Runner said:

The IOC will not like this one. What is the betting for the next Olympic dingy?

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3 hours ago, tillerman said:

What consensus to talk about club-racing activities?

The subject of Olympic sailing and how ILCA's booting LP might affect the Laser's Olympic status was raised in the 4th post in this thread on March 28th 2019.
 

I am not going back - buried somewhere in the shit-slinging with me, Wess and Robbie. Question was what did ILCA do for grassroots sailors. 

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2 hours ago, Bill5 said:

I am not going back - buried somewhere in the shit-slinging with me, Wess and Robbie. Question was what did ILCA do for grassroots sailors. 

Do you ever feel like you are going round in circles?

.

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10 hours ago, tillerman said:

Do you ever feel like you are going round in circles?

.

What does a club based Grass Roots sailor need other than a boat and some kind of RC to run the local Saturday club races?  Many of these kinds of sailors have no interest in class membership.  They just have a boat they like and want to get out in it.  Outside of making sure there are available boats and parts, (which ILCA has managed and most grass roots sailors use knock off parts anyway) what would the expectations be?

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Just now, RobbieB said:

What does a club based Grass Roots sailor need other than a boat and some kind of RC to run the local Saturday club races?  Many of these kinds of sailors have no interest in class membership.  They just have a boat they like and want to get out in it.  Outside of making sure there are available boats and parts, (which ILCA has managed and most grass roots sailors use knock off parts anyway) what would the expectations be?

If anyone has interest in how ILCA supports the class from a district level then I have a lot to share.

 

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1 minute ago, torrid said:

Every time I mow the lawn.

Too old school mate, to be fashionable these days you should be doing your lawn in windward leewards, not round the edge...

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2 hours ago, JimC said:

Too old school mate, to be fashionable these days you should be doing your lawn in windward leewards, not round the edge...

I have been experimenting with diagonal cuts - lots of broad reaches.

Also my side lawn has one J shaped edge so sometimes I cut the whole lawn with J's.

I think the important thing is to keep the grass roots happy by doing different courses every week. I haven't heard any protests yet.

 

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Good grief.  IMHO that is more crooked than... well you know LOL!

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