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ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder


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Hi Torrid, yes, it's 50year old legacy fiberglass, but there are a multitude of nuances, that Turner has alluded to in his video, that we have heard from just about everyone one of the new builders an

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46 minutes ago, tillerman said:

I miss the 60s

Perhaps what you really miss are miniskirts but I am not sure one is allowed to say that these days.

Personally what I miss are the days of affordable, accessible, simple and robust Lasers racing in a SMOD class.  Alas, ILCA killed all of that much like time has killed the miniskirt. 

And thank you for the softball.  I didn't miss it in al the snow.  Stay warm.

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

I am thinking the weather would be better in NZ though at the moment!!

I'm not going to lie.  Watching all those happy, unmasked people gathered together on sunny hillsides watching Cup racing in a COVID free country has me a little more than jealous.....MURICA...

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

I do wonder if Bill has a pair of boots like that.

Yes, but not as fancy-ass. 

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1 hour ago, RobbieB said:

I'm not going to lie.  Watching all those happy, unmasked people gathered together on sunny hillsides watching Cup racing in a COVID free country has me a little more than jealous.....MURICA...

MURICA!

DE3FTURCQK3WRTNOYHQLCTMMSI.jpg

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7 hours ago, koolkat505 said:

Bruce, putting Bernie in was brilliant!!!  

Assuming you meant the boat and not the book, I deliberately picked a grumpy looking Bernie pic... :) 

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You can get your The Laser Class stickers here: 

https://www.thelaserclass.com/news/pre-orders-are-open-for-the-laser-class-sail-stickers/?fbclid=IwAR289NGNiX7AmPBYJcrwM5zv-M8VKbbfI1OBrQm8c5lQSQpaIaW8bXMFUak

Have a feeling this is gonna be just as successful as the Kirby Torch, but hey, now you can "triple brand" your boat.  Or cover the ILCA sticker and double brand it!

 

 

the-laser-class_logo-png.png

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8 hours ago, aroy210677 said:

Final judgment in the Kirby v LP case released today. 

¿And?

Inquiring minds want to know...

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The judgement doesn't seem to be public yet. 

Here though, is a document of the same date which seems to have the conclusion:

 https://ecf.ctd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2013cv0297-651

I liked this quote from the judge:

Quote

It is hard to view defendants’ dogged litigation of this action as much more than a stalling tactic against an elderly man—Bruce Kirby—in hopes of delaying or deferring altogether a day of reckoning.

And the conclusion. Actually collecting the money, on the other hand, may not be so easy.

Quote

CONCLUSION

For the foregoing reasons, the Court DENIES the defendants’ motion to dismiss and for new trial (Doc. #641), and the Court GRANTS in part and DENIES in part plaintiffs’ motion for entry of judgment as explained above (Doc. #610). The Clerk of Court shall prepare a separate judgment reflecting the following:

• Judgment in favor of BKI on its Lanham Act claims (Counts One and Two) against QMI, and a Lanham Act damages award of $2,056,736.33 against QMI;

• Judgment in favor of Kirby against QMI and LPE for misappropriation of Kirby’s name (Count Three), with a nominal damages award of $1 against QMI and a compensatory damages award of $2,520,578.81 against LPE;

• An award of attorneys’ fees under the Lanham Act in favor of BKI against QMI in the amount of $734,528.30; and

• An award of punitive damages on Kirby’s misappropriation claim in the amount of $804,179.44 against both QMI and LPE, who shall be jointly and severally liable for the full amount. Upon payment from the defendants of a total amount of $734,528.30 to Kirby and/or BKI for attorneys’ fees (including all amounts paid by QMI to BKI for Lanham Act attorneys’ fees), defendants shall not owe any additional sum to either Kirby or BKI for the attorneys’ fees component of the punitive damages award.

Upon separate entry of judgment, the Clerk of Court shall close this case. In light of the mathematical complexity of the award calculations in this case, if any party believes that this ruling is based upon a clear computational error, they are encouraged to file a timely motion for reconsideration or motion to re-open the judgment rather than litigating a claimed error of math in the first instance on appeal.

It is so ordered.

Dated at New Haven this 1st day of February 2021.

/s/Jeffrey Alker Meyer

Jeffrey Alker Meyer United States District Judge

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I thought there was an outside chance he might prevail in court with nominal damages.  I NEVER thought it would be an amount that large.

Good luck collecting on that Mr. Kirby.

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1 hour ago, JimC said:

The judgement doesn't seem to be public yet. 

Here though, is a document of the same date which seems to have the conclusion:

 https://ecf.ctd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2013cv0297-651

I liked this quote from the judge:

And the conclusion. Actually collecting the money, on the other hand, may not be so easy.

This is just one of the reasons why I can't understand why anyone would want to hook their horse up to The Laser Class cart.... At this point it's not only vapor ware it's a level below that, (whatever that may be).  I feel sorry for anyone suckered into buying an off price new LPE "Laser" with hopes of any resale value.....

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1 minute ago, RobbieB said:

This is just one of the reasons why I can't understand why anyone would want to hook their horse up to The Laser Class cart.... At this point it's not only vapor ware it's a level below that, (whatever that may be).  I feel sorry for anyone suckered into buying an off price new LPE "Laser" with hopes of any resale value.....

Because its the lesser of two evils when compared to ILCA.  :P

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

Because its the lesser of two evils when compared to ILCA.  :P

It becoming more apparent there's only room in this arena for one true evil.  Mwaaaa, haaa , haaa, haaa, ha....  I'm renaming my ILCA "Dr. Evil"!

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9 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

It becoming more apparent there's only room in this arena for one true evil.  Mwaaaa, haaa , haaa, haaa, ha....  I'm renaming my ILCA "Dr. Evil"!

LOL that got a laugh for sure.

I am curious to see what happens to LPE or the evolved entities.  Or if any other company picks up and sells affordable copycat Lasers or ILCAs (essentially half priced ILCAs) or what have you. Talked to a few clubs and all said yes to non plaqued boats within their club fleets so there is maybe a market. 

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50 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

It becoming more apparent there's only room in this arena for one true evil.  Mwaaaa, haaa , haaa, haaa, ha....  I'm renaming my ILCA "Dr. Evil"!

And what if you get a RC Laser?

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

LOL that got a laugh for sure.

I am curious to see what happens to LPE or the evolved entities.  Or if any other company picks up and sells affordable copycat Lasers or ILCAs (essentially half priced ILCAs) or what have you. Talked to a few clubs and all said yes to non plaqued boats within their club fleets so there is maybe a market. 

Worked for the 420. C'mon, Wess! You have lots of dough! Slide into retirement as a boat builder. Rip a mold off an old Laser and get cracking!  Maybe Gouv will jump on the opportunity with you.

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I thought retirement means not working Bill?!?  Still a few things the wife and I have on the bucket list so while we will be sailing, we for sure ain’t building or selling anything once retired. Besides by then maybe the nutters currently running ILCA have moved on, more sane and club friendly policies take hold, and those building plaqued boats are also allowed to sell non plaqued boats. Generic Lasers for all!

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4 hours ago, Wess said:

I am curious to see what happens to LPE or the evolved entities.  Me too. 

 

 Talked to a few clubs and all said yes to non plaqued boats within their club fleets so there is maybe a market.  I can see it for clubs, H.S. and college teams.

 

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On 1/24/2021 at 3:57 AM, Bill5 said:

Thanks again. It would then seem the $650 advertised price now is reasonable. I stand corrected.

For a piece of shit that looks like this?

20B580EF-749C-4102-9D09-44CF058B88DE.jpeg

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13 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

For a piece of shit that looks like this?

20B580EF-749C-4102-9D09-44CF058B88DE.jpeg

That is a little unfair.  Sure the sail looks like shit but that is because when the sail and boat were designed you couldn't max out the cunningham or vang like that.  This is also why now everyone claims you need to spend $1000s extra to upgrade and buy composite top and bottom section.  So another new sail design/redesign... I would ask at what point is an ILCA not the Laser (or class) that Ian Bruce envisioned anymore but that horse left the barn a long time ago...

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4 minutes ago, Wess said:

That is a little unfair.  Sure the sail looks like shit but that is because when the sail and boat were designed you couldn't max out the cunningham or vang like that.  This is also why now everyone claims you need to spend $1000s extra to upgrade and buy composite top and bottom section.  So another new sail design/redesign... I would ask at what point is an ILCA not the Laser (or class) that Ian Bruce envisioned anymore but that horse left the barn a long time ago...

You miss the point, the fact is that this pice of shit was designed to work on existing spars, it was supposed to be an improvement, yet it looks worse than the cross cut sails and the panel layout is not used in any other current generation sail that I have seen as the cloth bias up the luff below the horizontal seam means you have to overuse the cunningham to get the desired result over the whole sail.

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11 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

You miss the point, the fact is that this pice of shit was designed to work on existing spars, it was supposed to be an improvement, yet it looks worse than the cross cut sails and the panel layout is not used in any other current generation sail that I have seen as the cloth bias up the luff below the horizontal seam means you have to overuse the cunningham to get the desired result over the whole sail.

And that I agree also but is still maybe unfair. My understanding was they were forced to that configuration on the MKII to get the longevity that wanted while not making it faster than the MKI. Not a sailmaker so can’t confirm or deny if that is true but that is what was said when the sail was first introduced. 

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

And that I agree also but is still maybe unfair. My understanding was they were forced to that configuration on the MKII to get the longevity that wanted while not making it faster than the MKI. Not a sailmaker so can’t confirm or deny if that is true but that is what was said when the sail was first introduced. 

I think Wess pretty much nailed it.  The MKII while not being faster than the MKI to the "regular" sailor does last easily 2 times longer than the MKI sail did.  The new vang and cunningham purchases would kill a MKI in 1 medium season for the "regular" sailor. The goals behind the MKII design were to make is last longer, and strengthen the luff panel for the cunningham tension as well as put in thicker cloth where the mast pieces meet to avoid the tear the MKI sail would get when an aluminum upper section would pop.  They also did a bigger window, (which I never notice). 

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3 hours ago, Major Tom said:

For a piece of shit that looks like this?

20B580EF-749C-4102-9D09-44CF058B88DE.jpeg

You need to read the earlier posts. It was suggested that a quality sailmaker domestically would charge $850. And $650 is less than $850. Hence the reasonable comment.

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Yea but ILCA and their boats still suck. In ILCA leadership’s case they suck money off the top LOL!! Hi Fly. Never going to stop.

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3 minutes ago, Wess said:

Yea but ILCA and their boats still suck. In ILCA leadership’s case they suck money off the top LOL!! Hi Fly. Never going to stop.

yawn 

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Yea but it works Bill. No place better to tell ILCA’s story.

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13 hours ago, aroy210677 said:

 

7B4C689B-CC0B-43C7-837E-68E3ECB5A699.jpeg

13F96E1B-7D2A-4532-A951-D986246B55DC.jpeg

I seem to remember one lawyer used to post on here telling us that Kirby had no case, could not win etc. I make that a total award to Kirby of $5,381,495.58 plus costs of $734,528.30. Therefore, Rastegar has to find over $6m.

I find it interesting that the amount is almost equally split between 2 different entities, LPE and Quarter Moon. My understanding is that Quarter Moon holds the trademark so if he winds it up, the trademark would be lost. While I am sure that there will be more appeals, if the judgements stand, I cannot see how Rastegar can stay in the Laser game. I suspect there will need to be further legal action, because I was told that on termination of their builders licence, the contract called for LPE/Quarter Moon to give up all moulds for the Kirby design of dinghy. Their contention was that the contract wasn't valid, so they didn't need to give up the moulds. The court has found the contract valid, so I think LPE loses rights to use the moulds (even if they own them). 

Looks like it will cost Rastegar $6m plus a new set of moulds (which cannot be made from either existing moulds/plugs or taken off an existing boat). Or, because all the judgements are against corporations, he could wind them up and walk away. What would you do? "Invest" $6m to stay in the game or run.........

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7 hours ago, RobbieB said:

I thin pretty much nailed it.  The MKII while not being faster than the MKI to the "regular" sailor does last easily 2 times longer than the MKI sail did.  

whaaaaatttt  2 times longer?????? Are you saying that for the grass roots and other ILCA sailors that the new MKII are really  nearly half price cuz they last twice as long as the MKI ????????

If the grass roots can  now buy fewer sails or can purchase good used ones how are those dastardly ILCA officials gonna pay for their super duper super secret vacays.  unlessss they double  the super duper super secret fees. Ohhhh nooooo

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7 hours ago, SimonN said:

My understanding is that Quarter Moon holds the trademark

I'm pretty sure the trademark is with Velum, who never signed any agreements with Kirby. 

I understand LPE have disposed of the moulds. They probably did so in breach of the contract terms but nevertheless they did. 

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9 hours ago, SimonN said:

I find it interesting that the amount is almost equally split between 2 different entities, LPE and Quarter Moon. My understanding is that Quarter Moon holds the trademark so if he winds it up, the trademark would be lost. While I am sure that there will be more appeals, if the judgements stand, I cannot see how Rastegar can stay in the Laser game. I suspect there will need to be further legal action, because I was told that on termination of their builders licence, the contract called for LPE/Quarter Moon to give up all moulds for the Kirby design of dinghy. Their contention was that the contract wasn't valid, so they didn't need to give up the moulds. The court has found the contract valid, so I think LPE loses rights to use the moulds (even if they own them). 

Looks like it will cost Rastegar $6m plus a new set of moulds (which cannot be made from either existing moulds/plugs or taken off an existing boat). Or, because all the judgements are against corporations, he could wind them up and walk away. What would you do? "Invest" $6m to stay in the game or run.........

My understanding is that Quarter Moon Inc is a company incorporated in Rhode Island. I suspect that QMI was the company building Lasers in Rhode Island and LPE was the company building Lasers in England, and that's why the award is spilt roughly equally between the two.

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985055239_ScreenShot2021-02-04at7_08_21AM.thumb.png.0c33b399d0073defc1682de56ce550e5.png

The document posted by Andy records the appellants in the lawsuit as "Bruce Kirby Inc. et al."

Who currently owns Bruce Kirby Inc.? I know that at one point Bruce Kirby sold BKI to Global Sailing.

Who is included in "et al"?

In the unlikely event of these awards actually being paid, who will they actually be paid to?

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7 hours ago, VWAP said:

whaaaaatttt  2 times longer?????? Are you saying that for the grass roots and other ILCA sailors that the new MKII are really  nearly half price cuz they last twice as long as the MKI ????????

If the grass roots can  now buy fewer sails or can purchase good used ones how are those dastardly ILCA officials gonna pay for their super duper super secret vacays.  unlessss they double  the super duper super secret fees. Ohhhh nooooo

To ad to that. My first MKII sail just hit 4 yrs of age and had been my practice sail for the past 2 years, (which gets much more use than my regatta sail).  While it's lost ALL of it's "snap" the shape on it is still pretty good.  The Wifey took some video of me a couple of weekend ago and I was surprised at how well the upwind shape was in medium breeze.

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Whatever Kirby sold, it was not Bruce Kirby Inc, which appears to have been in the same ownership since 1975: https://www.concord-sots.ct.gov/CONCORD/PublicInquiry?eid=9744&businessID=0006470
It was the Laser part of the business that was sold.

I'm also not sure what Kirby has won, other than a large sum of money for trademark violations. The devil is always in the detail with legal stuff.  I'm not sure I see in the final judgement anything about the contracts between BKI and LPE being fully valid and a requirement for LPE and QM to act on the termination clauses. My understanding was that the termination clauses in the contracts were always the real meat as far as LPEs ability to keep building Lasers was concerned. Maybe there's a lot more lawyering to come, or maybe it got decided a long time ago, although if it did, I don't know which way it went.

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8 hours ago, VWAP said:

whaaaaatttt  2 times longer?????? Are you saying that for the grass roots and other ILCA sailors that the new MKII are really  nearly half price cuz they last twice as long as the MKI ????????

If the grass roots can  now buy fewer sails or can purchase good used ones how are those dastardly ILCA officials gonna pay for their super duper super secret vacays.  unlessss they double  the super duper super secret fees. Ohhhh nooooo

 

44 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

To ad to that. My first MKII sail just hit 4 yrs of age and had been my practice sail for the past 2 years, (which gets much more use than my regatta sail).  While it's lost ALL of it's "snap" the shape on it is still pretty good.  The Wifey took some video of me a couple of weekend ago and I was surprised at how well the upwind shape was in medium breeze.

Hey guys, help me out here as I forgot... how much does the class legal MKII sail costs and how much for the generic version?

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18 minutes ago, Wess said:

 

Hey guys, help me out here as I forgot... how much does the class legal MKII sail costs and how much for the generic version?

1378648184_ScreenShot2021-02-04at8_38_38AM.thumb.png.49ef74cbcc8d74dfe7402151032cd979.png1125895637_ScreenShot2021-02-04at8_39_09AM.thumb.png.6cd818642eb6368c8cfffb3ac6d3ecaf.png

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1 hour ago, JimC said:

Whatever Kirby sold, it was not Bruce Kirby Inc, which appears to have been in the same ownership since 1975: https://www.concord-sots.ct.gov/CONCORD/PublicInquiry?eid=9744&businessID=0006470

I think you are right. In 2008, Bruce Kirby and Bruce Kirby Inc. sold to Global Sailing of New Zealand all of their interests in the Kirby Sailboat design, including all of their intellectual property rights and all rights under agreements with third parties relating to the Kirby Sailboat design.

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2 minutes ago, Wess said:

#When a picture is worth a thousand words!

Thanks Tiller

You are welcome. And just in case people aren't quite believing their eyes... yes, it's true, Intensity Sailing are now selling ILCA class legal sails.. as well as their well-known and widely-used Laser Practice Sails (for less than 25% of the price of the ILCA sails.)

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

 

Hey guys, help me out here as I forgot... how much does the class legal MKII sail costs and how much for the generic version?

Probably the same scale as the difference between Boon's Farm wine and a nice Williamaette Valley bottle.  

BTW- the generic sails have their place just as the class legal ones do.

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

 

Hey guys, help me out here as I forgot... how much does the class legal MKII sail costs and how much for the generic version?

Anybody know where the generic sails are made?

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At least one of mine was made right in in the USA.  Actually in my home town by a local sailor.  And no you can't buy it you crazy Canadian.

Oh and yes Tiller and Jim C recall correctly.  BKI rights were sold to/acquired, after it was, then wasn't, then was, by GS/PSA.  Your new overloard along with WS and ILCA!

 

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4 minutes ago, Wess said:

At least one of mine was made right in in the USA.  Actually in my home town by a local sailor.  And no you can't buy it you crazy Canadian.

Cool. Buying local is always good. Where are the Intensity’s made? Kansas? 

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3 hours ago, Bill5 said:

Cool. Buying local is always good.

See we can agree. So....

  * Got any ILCA builders in Canada or expect any “soon” LOL?

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21 hours ago, RobbieB said:

 ...strengthen the luff panel for the cunningham tension as well as put in thicker cloth where the mast pieces meet to avoid the tear the MKI sail would get when an aluminum upper section would pop.  

Well that didn't work! Still rips the same when mast snaps, I know cause I tried it...lol. (then went & bought a carbon top section when they had £100 discount in sale).

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44 minutes ago, Martin T said:

Well that didn't work! Still rips the same when mast snaps, I know cause I tried it...lol. (then went & bought a carbon top section when they had £100 discount in sale).

Whoops!

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

See we can agree. So....

  * Got any ILCA builders in Canada or expect any “soon” LOL?

I must have missed your answer on where the Intensity generic sails you favour are made. Nice try - the old Wess  Wiggle.

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34 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

I must have missed your answer on where the Intensity generic sails you favour are made. Nice try - the old Wess  Wiggle.

That is because I never said I favor Intensity generic sails. That would be a lie. I said I favor (not favour... sorry could not resist... in truth I likely have way more typos than you LOL) generic sails.  I have no clue where Intensity sails are built.  Are you saying Intensity sails are built in China?

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25 minutes ago, Wess said:

That is because I never said I favor Intensity generic sails. That would be a lie. I said I favor (not favour... sorry could not resist... in truth I likely have way more typos than you LOL) generic sails.  I have no clue where Intensity sails are built.  Are you saying Intensity sails are built in China?

All the ILCA class legal sails and all the generic sails are actually made in the same factory in Wess's favorite country to hate. Q told me.

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

That is because I never said I favor Intensity generic sails. That would be a lie. I said I favor (not favour... sorry could not resist... in truth I likely have way more typos than you LOL) generic sails.  I have no clue where Intensity sails are built.  Are you saying Intensity sails are built in China?

I don't know for sure where they are made. My guess would be China, but since you know pretty much everything I thought I would ask. And I suspect you have/had an inkling they may be made in China. I would also think a lot of the other generic gear they sell is made in China, although their foils are made in USA. I bought a knock off centerboard a few years ago in a pinch. I didn't realize that "knock off" meant I would knock a giant chunk off the trailing edge first time I stepped onto the board from a capsize. Anyway - do you take issue with generic gear made in China? Or is it just ILCA gear made in China that causes you grief? 

Oh - one thing you don't know is the proper English spelling is favour. Favor is an American thing.

 

1 hour ago, tillerman said:

All the ILCA class legal sails and all the generic sails are actually made in the same factory in Wess's favorite country to hate. Q told me.

 My North sail was made in Sri Lanka. Not sure if that country is Wess-embargoed. 

 

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5 hours ago, Bruce Hudson said:

1430171153_Boat-tooloose-withBernie-FR-Q.thumb.jpg.9e83a7f00a37d4722653fd9448279fb7.jpg

Q indeed.

 

On 2/1/2021 at 5:36 PM, tillerman said:

MURICA!

DE3FTURCQK3WRTNOYHQLCTMMSI.jpg

This is a false flag operation. The people on this boat are not Americans; they are New Zealanders pretending to be Americans. Q told me.

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11 hours ago, Bill5 said:

316 to go!

Oh; no!  No way; it doesn't stop there.  Just like ILCA pricing this thread goes...

 

 

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On this side of the pond I have only two friends that have had new LP boats in the last 18 months .

One has had no problems but has sold it to go Europe sailing this year and if he wants to do the laser masters he will buy a Ovington built boat .

The other one had problems straight away, stress cracks all over the deck . After a lot of a phone calls and emails and eventually the threat of legal action, LP replaced the the hull.

Not sure this helps you , Gouv. Other than to say any boat needs to be checked over really well and you have more experience and skill in boat building than most of us to do this correctly. 

 

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If this LP Laser is second hand, in my book you arn't putting money into LP's pocket. The first owner did that.

I say if it's a good deal & increases your fleet size, go for it.

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@Gouvernail - A Japanese boat would be a cool interesting little oddity here in the States.  But as to your original question I would guess that the average club Laser sailor doesn't even know how to tell which company made the boat and they would not care either way which company did.  If you get a Japanese one send me a pic of the plaque!

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The 2020/2021 Olympic fleet will be sold off maybe sooner rather than later. If the Olympics are cancelled, I guess it is just as well that the Odaiba Marina project was cancelled. 

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Shocked.  I am shocked I tell you...

Statement by LaserPerformance 

The Court’s recent ruling reduced the jury’s award by more than half from $4,337157.49 to $2,056,736.33 with regard to an alleged trademark violation by defendant/licensee QMI.  Previously the Court had ruled that Mr. Kirby had no right or standing to sue the defendants QMI and LPE for royalties. As a result, this case only involved the use of his name on Laser sailboat plaques.  QMI argued and still contends that it had the authority to use the Kirby name and trademark on boats it sold pursuant to the Builders Agreement, which was never terminated, and in accordance with the  

Laser construction manual approved by Mr. Kirby and ISAF (World Sailing). Therefore, there has been no trademark violation.    Both QMI and the other licensee/defendant LPE also argued and still contend that Mr. Kirby was not harmed or damaged by including his name on the required plaques placed on the Laser boats. They also argued that Mr. Kirby never asked to have his name removed from the Laser sailboat plaques nor did ISAF (World Sailing) or ILCA. It is our understanding that the licensee/defendants disagree with the recent Court ruling and will likely appeal its decision. 

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

Shocked.  I am shocked I tell you...

Statement by LaserPerformance 

The Court’s recent ruling reduced the jury’s award by more than half from $4,337157.49 to $2,056,736.33 with regard to an alleged trademark violation by defendant/licensee QMI.  Previously the Court had ruled that Mr. Kirby had no right or standing to sue the defendants QMI and LPE for royalties. As a result, this case only involved the use of his name on Laser sailboat plaques.  QMI argued and still contends that it had the authority to use the Kirby name and trademark on boats it sold pursuant to the Builders Agreement, which was never terminated, and in accordance with the  

Laser construction manual approved by Mr. Kirby and ISAF (World Sailing). Therefore, there has been no trademark violation.    Both QMI and the other licensee/defendant LPE also argued and still contend that Mr. Kirby was not harmed or damaged by including his name on the required plaques placed on the Laser boats. They also argued that Mr. Kirby never asked to have his name removed from the Laser sailboat plaques nor did ISAF (World Sailing) or ILCA. It is our understanding that the licensee/defendants disagree with the recent Court ruling and will likely appeal its decision. 

You're a lawyer right?   I'm not, but it seems if these claims were proven as "facts" in court then there would be no judgement against LP/others?  Did you ever see Rasty's interview on Sailing Illustrated?  The guy is like Trump. 

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29 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

You're a lawyer right?   I'm not, but it seems if these claims were proven as "facts" in court then there would be no judgement against LP/others?  Did you ever see Rasty's interview on Sailing Illustrated?  The guy is like Trump. 

No I m not a lawyer.  Take back that insult LOL.  Good grief the only form of life lower than a lawyer is a politician.

Yes I saw the interview and no I didn't have a problem with it other than the part he endorsed giving yet more money for nothing to WS.

You and your state voted for Trump, no?

Mine didn't but the folks currently running ILCA are far worse than him IMHO.

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22 minutes ago, Wess said:

No I m not a lawyer.  Take back that insult LOL.  Good grief the only form of life lower than a lawyer is a politician.

Yes I saw the interview and no I didn't have a problem with it other than the part he endorsed giving yet more money for nothing to WS.

You and your state voted for Trump, no?

Mine didn't but the folks running ILCA are far worse than him IMHO.

Rasty put Bruce Kirby's name on some cool boats.

ILCA put their own name on some cool boats.

Trump put his own name on some gaudy hotels and casinos.

There's no comparison.

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24 minutes ago, Wess said:

Mine didn't but the folks currently running ILCA are far worse than him IMHO.

I guess us Canadians have different ways of measuring humans and human behaviour. 

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1 minute ago, tillerman said:

Rasty put Bruce Kirby's name on some cool boats.

ILCA put their own name on some cool boats.

Trump put his own name on some gaudy hotels and casinos.

There's no comparison.

I will give you the first and the third one for sure.  The second... not so much.  An ILCA has gotten so expensive its likely cheaper to stay at a Trump hotel.

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4 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

I guess us Canadians have different ways of measuring humans and human behaviour. 

Pretty far off base here aren't we?

But since you went down the path... ht.tps://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/who-are-the-trump-loving-canadians/

Even with someone as polarizing as Trump there is another side.  You just don't want to see there is a dark side to ILCA.  Blinded by the Olympic rings are you!!

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5 hours ago, Wess said:

Pretty far off base here aren't we?

But since you went down the path... ht.tps://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/who-are-the-trump-loving-canadians/

Even with someone as polarizing as Trump there is another side.  You just don't want to see there is a dark side to ILCA.  Blinded by the Olympic rings are you!!

It went off base and down a warped path when you stated Eric Faust et al are worse than Donald Trump. You do take increased pricing in little sailboats to another level. Much worse than inciting a riot. . Gotcha. Then, you pull a 7 month old article (pre shit storm) that says that 65% of Canada's right of center party would actually vote for the left of center Trudeau. Think about that. What would it take for 65% of Republicans to not vote for Trump? 

Anyway, to get you off speaking of Trump, I certainly do believe and agree ILCA have made mistakes. Acknowledged. Everyone makes mistakes. Except you, of course...

 

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1 hour ago, Bill5 said:

It went off base and down a warped path when you stated Eric Faust et al are worse than Donald Trump. You do take increased pricing in little sailboats to another level. Much worse than inciting a riot. . Gotcha. Then, you pull a 7 month old article (pre shit storm) that says that 65% of Canada's right of center party would actually vote for the left of center Trudeau. Think about that. What would it take for 65% of Republicans to not vote for Trump? 

Anyway, to get you off speaking of Trump, I certainly do believe and agree ILCA have made mistakes. Acknowledged. Everyone makes mistakes. Except you, of course...

 

LOL my gosh this is as easy as it is fun. 

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49 minutes ago, Wess said:

LOL my gosh this is as easy as it is fun. 

Ah the Wess weasel! Never wrong. Well done!

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