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Let face it - our version of capitalism is broken


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2 minutes ago, warbird said:

It's telling that getting home to get some pussy is more important than waiting for a trial by jury to be exonerated. You need to meet some better people...

You want to spend a few weeks behind bars waiting your turn? You need to meet some more brain cells.

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OK, back it up - provide facts to support your silly assertions.  And get a freaking spell checker. Shit, you come across dumb enough without "centerded".  Does that go good with Hamberders?  Nev

These threads remind me of the disclaimers for investment schemes "past performance is not indicative of future results". Capitalism as we know it is maybe 150 years old and an artifact of the industr

One fact is that the wealth at the top is in the stratospheres and catastrophic.  The working class is losing out even as the economy has grown.  Greed has been glorified.  Certain protected classes l

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Just now, warbird said:

It's telling that getting home to get some pussy is more important than waiting for a trial by jury to be exonerated. You need to meet some better people...

Do you know what percentage of cases go to jury trial?  Do you know what it is like to be charged unjustly? Do you know a need to get out to support your family?  

I prosecuted for twenty years.  As a defense attorney now, I sometimes tell my clients I could do more if I were prosecuting them, because I wouldn't be a heartless dick.

I'm glad you have a good life.  I do too.  Perhaps you might get out a bit and see that there are others working really hard and sometimes they get less favorable outcomes.

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14 minutes ago, warbird said:

Actually, I don't...………...

 

285 at wallmart. shop in your jammies two...….

Walmart and ebay.  Seems that Amazon does have some competition out there.

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4 minutes ago, hasher said:

Do you know what percentage of cases go to jury trial?  Do you know what it is like to be charged unjustly? Do you know a need to get out to support your family?  

I prosecuted for twenty years.  As a defense attorney now, I sometimes tell my clients I could do more if I were prosecuting them, because I wouldn't be a heartless dick.

I'm glad you have a good life.  I do too.  Perhaps you might get out a bit and see that there are others working really hard and sometimes they get less favorable outcomes.

I  am out there..... Poor choices and all the rest.....

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

I  am out there..... Poor choices and all the rest.....

The meatpackers had those choices made for them by the oligarchy 

The point is that: people who work hard deserve to make a decent living . . . .  why is that so threatening to the Reich? 

We note that this thread is about monopoly (oligopoly), which the Reich refuses to discuss/address 

Comments on Robert Reich? 

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Comments on Robert Reich? 

Robert Reich is amazing.  I love reading his comments.  If we had an informed electorate, he and people like him would be in leadership roles.

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5 hours ago, hasher said:

Robert Reich is amazing.  I love reading his comments.  If we had an informed electorate, he and people like him would be in leadership roles.

Yeah he doesn't know what youtube and facebook do either.  He thinks they are news providers and news seekers are their customers.  

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3 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Ladies and gents....  I present to you Prosecution exhibit A for what is currently fucked about this world.  

Nationalism is Tribalism writ large.   Your attitude is provincial.

 

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4 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Ladies and gents....  I present to you Prosecution exhibit A for what is currently fucked about this world.  

what the fuck have we here, it's the 'prosecution' with exhibit fkg A..

you're godamned right I have a healthy contempt for your petty tribalism princess gunz, and you'll like it.

btw, those like yourself have no place declaring what's 'wrong with the world'.

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11 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

what the fuck have we here, it's the 'prosecution' with exhibit fkg A..

you're godamned right I have a healthy contempt for your petty tribalism princess gunz, and you'll like it.

btw, those like yourself have no place declaring what's 'wrong with the world'.

While I disagree with nationalism for nationalism's sake, I find absolutely no reason not to allow myself to be proud of our country when we do the right thing.

Likewise, attempting to call his opinion invalid because he happens to be more nationalistic than you is, in itself, another form of tribalism (and elitism).  Marx may have espoused marxism which was largely incorrect, but not all the ideas it was based on were wrong either.

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5 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

One would have to be a real dependant loser not to be able to thrive in Trump's economy....

"One" would have to be a really passive aggressive pussy to speak in the third person.  "One" would also be quite the asshole if "One" were to suggest that anyone not thriving right now is a loser.

Change your name to SailBlueH"1"O.  It will make my next post much easier.

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On 3/31/2019 at 8:04 AM, Fakenews said:

Interesting bit from Axios that points out we are a nation of monopoly’s and that capitalism left to its own devices inevitably goes bad.  I personally think we need to embrace a hybrid capitalism/socialism model thatI like to call crappy socialism which I will expand on later. This is polling well among Americans and I think the eventual Dem nominee will ride this growing conviction that our government and economic model is broken to an overwhelming victory in 2020.

https://www.axios.com/iowa-country-of-monopolies-7de113b7-2860-4fa2-83ea-32c5b6766c15.html

Interesting read, however not relative to the merits of capitalism. 

What is the crop yield from the corporate farm vs the family owned? Article didn't say. I suspect the dollar yield is greater for the corporate run Ag than family. 

We have a huge population to feed if the family farm can't keep pace is that the fault of capitalism? Of is it out of need not greed?

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16 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

"One" would have to be a really passive aggressive pussy to speak in the third person.  "One" would also be quite the asshole if "One" were to suggest that anyone not thriving right now is a loser.

Change your name to SailBlueH"1"O.  It will make my next post much easier.

LOL...Love it...TDS squared !

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3 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

LOL...Love it...TDS squared !

Ahh.  Canned response because you've got nothing else.  LOL...Love it...

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Well, as noted above Hightower, Warren and Reich - among others have done a goo job of describing the recent history of 

monopoly/oligopoly. 

Note that the local Reich is not capable of even discussing this . . 

That is because their Von Mises derived ideology tells them that monopoly cannot exist without gummint intervention . . 

Which is complete, total, utter and full-on BS. 

And if this economy is so great (Senor Blue), why are (at least) 60% of families living from one paycheck to another?  

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4 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well, as noted above Hightower, Warren and Reich - among others have done a goo job of describing the recent history of 

monopoly/oligopoly. 

Note that the local Reich is not capable of even discussing this . . 

That is because their Von Mises derived ideology tells them that monopoly cannot exist without gummint intervention . . 

Which is complete, total, utter and full-on BS. 

And if this economy is so great (Senor Blue), why are (at least) 60% of families living from one paycheck to another? 

Living beyond their means....

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4 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Living beyond their means....

Well, 38 % of us are over 65 or under 18 - not part of the active working economy (but for sure, as an over 65 I spend a lot) 

And 13 % of us are disabled . . 

Your simplistic pronouncements are stupid beyond belief. 

And of course, you still cannot deal with the OP - monopoly/oligopoly 

Another reason why the Reich (not my man Robert) really cannot do econ. 

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3 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well, 38 % of us are over 65 or under 18 - not part of the active working economy (but for sure, as an over 65 I spend a lot) 

And 13 % of us are disabled . . 

Your simplistic pronouncements are stupid beyond belief. 

And of course, you still cannot deal with the OP - monopoly/oligopoly 

Another reason why the Reich (not my man Robert) really cannot do econ. 

Man up and suffer quietly....geesh...

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28 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well, 38 % of us are over 65 or under 18 - not part of the active working economy (but for sure, as an over 65 I spend a lot) 

And 13 % of us are disabled . . 

Your simplistic pronouncements are stupid beyond belief. 

And of course, you still cannot deal with the OP - monopoly/oligopoly 

Another reason why the Reich (not my man Robert) really cannot do econ. 

You haven't been able to name any monopolies.  There is nothing wrong with oligopolies.  With oligopolies, there is competition.  

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36 minutes ago, jzk said:

You haven't been able to name any monopolies.  There is nothing wrong with oligopolies.  With oligopolies, there is competition.  

There used to be 1 phone company.....:ph34r:

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Well, I know you little Reichistas don't study econ much, not even establishment econ for crissakes. 

There is a big literature on the effects of oligopolies 

Read some Warren, Hightower & Reich - and then maybe we can talk.  

Do your flippin homework !  

But then, if you did, you would not be Reichistas, would you?  

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

You haven't been able to name any monopolies.  There is nothing wrong with oligopolies.  With oligopolies, there is competition.  

Remember the AMA?  What is not monopolistic about it?  Those are real dollars paid to the medicos.

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Ya got two reichistas in there @AJ Oliver - great job.  There is one thing about America that is broken - our higher education system.  How can I prove that?  You were a professor in that system.  Your view of this country is so fucked you shouldn’t be allowed to teach someone how to write their name.

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5 minutes ago, Laker said:

Remember the AMA?  What is not monopolistic about it?  Those are real dollars paid to the medicos.

How is it a monopoly?  It is more of a trade union.   Go ahead and make your case.  Maybe you are right.  

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3 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

I'm still trying to figure out how google with >90% of search isn't a monopoly. But I'm sure the shitposter will set me straight again. Just like he did with all information worth knowing being available free on the internet.

Because the people doing the searching are not the customers of Google.  You could find this stuff out for free on the internet.  

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4 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Still mad your dad couldn't bribe your way into an Ivy? Poor wittle baby.

It's a good thing Google is abusing their power to fuck over their customers then!

Who are its customers, and how is it doing that?

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6 minutes ago, jzk said:

Because the people doing the searching are not the customers of Google.  You could find this stuff out for free on the internet.  

You are right, but haven't continued your thought process:   The searchers are the product, and Google has cornered >90% of the product they sell.  Ergo, a monopoly.

Facebook has cornered >90% of the social media idiots as their product.  Ergo, a monopoly.

Just like when Standard Oil controlled a huge portion of the oil sold in the US.   Or DeBeers controlling the Diamond market.  Monopolies.

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2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

You are right, but haven't continued your thought process:   The searchers are the product, and Google has cornered >90% of the product they sell.  Ergo, a monopoly.

Facebook has cornered >90% of the social media idiots as their product.  Ergo, a monopoly.

Just like when Standard Oil controlled a huge portion of the oil sold in the US.   Or DeBeers controlling the Diamond market.  Monopolies.

Not really.  If I want to advertise on the internet, I have many many choices.  No one has 90% of the internet advertising market.

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2 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

what thought process? jerk-z is a bot, or someone dumb enough to be indistinguishable from one. It's as if only! IF ONLY! jerk-z could use it's favorite search engine to find storys about this very subject. and yet, it never does. it's a dumber version of the dog pingpong.

Is this even a coherent thought?

How is Google, Facebook or Amazon harming the public?  Those companies have done a great service to mankind.  

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4 minutes ago, jzk said:

Not really.  If I want to advertise on the internet, I have many many choices.  No one has 90% of the internet advertising market.

And how do those advertisers know to target you?  Google, Facebook and Amazon. 

And who sets the ad rates?  Google, Facebook and Amazon.

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4 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

And how do those advertisers know to target you?  Google, Facebook and Amazon. 

And who sets the ad rates?  Google, Facebook and Amazon.

If I want to sell on an online marketplace, I can choose Amazon,walmart,  ebay, newegg, rakuten, bonanza, jet. com, etc.  Plenty of competition.

If I want to advertise, I also have plenty of choices. 

Where is the harm?

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If my teaching did not freak out people like J28 

I would have been doing something terribly wrong . . 

we typically gave students views and analysis from a range of sources - from Rand to Fanon to our own business and econ profs 

and let them make up their own minds. . 

what we would NOT do was let them sit back and snark and not examine various points of view 

they had to produce written summaries from a wide range of works

we call that "liberal arts" 

(I'm working on my ee cummings rebellion against punctuation - but not against facts or logic) 

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48 minutes ago, jzk said:

How is it a monopoly?  It is more of a trade union.   Go ahead and make your case.  Maybe you are right.  

It sets prices.  A union negotiates prices.

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3 hours ago, J28 said:

Your view of this country is so fucked you shouldn’t be allowed to teach someone how to write their name.

Well now, isn't it a shame that the rules of the SA game dictate that the valiant J28 cannot 

meet me face-to-face to deliver his words of wisdom . .  

But I am totally willing to try to arrange such an encounter . .  

Wadaya say punk? 

Sign Me, 6 foot three and 230 pounds of left wing fightin' fury .  . 

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19 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well now, isn't it a shame that the rules of the SA game dictate that the valiant J28 cannot 

meet me face-to-face to deliver his words of wisdom . .  

But I am totally willing to try to arrange such an encounter . .  

Wadaya say punk? 

Sign Me, 6 foot three and 230 pounds of left wing fightin' fury .  . 

That is kind of a prick response. You exposed your insecurities in your failed beliefs right there, fuck off and do NOT go back to the class room. We need educators , not zealots.

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10 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

3-1 == Oil?   Seems an apt appellation for the slimy little bastidge. 

replying to this isn't dignified, I shouldn't do it... but it'll never be OK with me to take any crap from some 'ol hardcase righty tart who's made it a life policy to generally not see reason. you talk down to me, and you'll get a reply.

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9 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well now, isn't it a shame that the rules of the SA game dictate that the valiant J28 cannot 

meet me face-to-face to deliver his words of wisdom . .  

But I am totally willing to try to arrange such an encounter . .  

Wadaya say punk? 

Sign Me, 6 foot three and 230 pounds of left wing fightin' fury .  . 

Oh boy - we have another triggered Internet tough guy.  

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So three pages of a topic about a system that is "broken" but not one comment about any actual broken part of it.

Just like Robert, the clown, Riech's video.  So horrible that google has become a verb, but no actual reasons for why that is a bad thing.

From the article:

"The culprit he sees is cheap food: In 1960, Americans spent 17% of their disposable income on food; the figure now is just 6.4%, according to U.S. government figures. The tight margins ran out everyone but the big dogs."

Sounds good to me.  Poor people get to eat.  If you are running a crappy business, then time to do something differently.  We can get unlimited global communications for under $50/month.  The horrors.  We have to put an end to that immediately.  Pretty much every example cited by the article and the clown video are good results, especially if you are poor.

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9 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

and here the troll proclaims victory because he refused to listen to anyone else

The problem is that you are not saying much of anything.  Why is it bad that 90% of the public chooses Google as its search engine?  Free access to all sorts of information.  It would do you well to give it a try some time.

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9 hours ago, 3to1 said:

replying to this isn't dignified, I shouldn't do it... but it'll never be OK with me to take any crap from some 'ol hardcase righty tart who's made it a life policy to generally not see reason. you talk down to me, and you'll get a reply.

I didn't think I was talking TO you in the first place - rather, offering an observation of your abhorrence. 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCPcM8GlptM

 

The problem with socialism is that once somebody has something... they do not want to just give it to somebody. 

So then you need a BIG bad government to take it away from them by force. And of course, the big bad government gets their VIG in order to fund themselves. The bigger they get, the more they need and then at some point.... Venezuela!!!

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22 minutes ago, rustymk said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCPcM8GlptM

 

The problem with socialism is that once somebody has something... they do not want to just give it to somebody. 

So then you need a BIG bad government to take it away from them by force. And of course, the big bad government gets their VIG in order to fund themselves. The bigger they get, the more they need and then at some point.... Venezuela!!!

.....and no toilet paper.....

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22 minutes ago, rustymk said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCPcM8GlptM

 

The problem with socialism is that once somebody has something... they do not want to just give it to somebody. 

So then you need a BIG bad government to take it away from them by force. And of course, the big bad government gets their VIG in order to fund themselves. The bigger they get, the more they need and then at some point.... Venezuela!!!

You forgot to blame socialists for cancer and making the sun go away at night.

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8 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I didn't think I was talking TO you in the first place - rather, offering an observation of your abhorrence. 

fuck you, idjit.

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14 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Please read this opinion piece and give me your thoughts.  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/opinion/america-nationalism-diversity-trump.html

Thanks in advance

I appreciate the link and I skimmed most of it, but somebody's pride in their country doesn't interest me, so much doesn't. I acknowledge your's and any one else's stance on the matter, but to me, this country represents an abstract entity that essentially stole part of a beautiful continent, turned into a coast to coast shopping mall that's become swine central and is infested by an automobile plague, among other things. that's neither here nor there, it's just one person's perspective.

my only allegiance is to the Earth and it's life, it's the closest thing I have to a spiritual connection. the planet is THE foundation, it also doesn't have a voice. that's all I've got to say.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

I appreciate the link and I skimmed most of it, but somebody's pride in their country doesn't interest me, so much doesn't. I acknowledge your's and any one else's stance on the matter, but to me, this country represents an abstract entity that essentially stole part of a beautiful continent, turned into a coast to coast shopping mall that's become swine central and is infested by an automobile plague, among other things. that's neither here nor there, it's just one person's perspective.

my only allegiance is to the Earth and it's life, it's the closest thing I have to a spiritual connection. the planet is THE foundation, it also doesn't have a voice. that's all I've got to say.

 

 

Feel free to move to Botswana or Argentina dickwad... 

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56 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

I appreciate the link and I skimmed most of it, but somebody's pride in their country doesn't interest me, so much doesn't. I acknowledge your's and any one else's stance on the matter, but to me, this country represents an abstract entity that essentially stole part of a beautiful continent, turned into a coast to coast shopping mall that's become swine central and is infested by an automobile plague, among other things. that's neither here nor there, it's just one person's perspective.

my only allegiance is to the Earth and it's life, it's the closest thing I have to a spiritual connection. the planet is THE foundation, it also doesn't have a voice. that's all I've got to say.

 

 

Every time you drive one of those automobiles, you increase the amount of life on the Earth just a little bit:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

Feel free to move to Botswana or Argentina dickwad... 

as soon as you get the fk off the planet you disrespectful hemorrhoid.

 

1 hour ago, jzk said:

Every time you drive one of those automobiles, you increase the amount of life on the Earth just a little bit:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth

 

 

 

you're perfectly aware that's an artificial variable that doesn't belong in a complex system that achieved perfect equilibrium millions of years ago, and would be self sustaining indefinitely without interference, yet you persist. tbh, you could use some clarity and decency slapped into that rotten melon of yours.

 

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22 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

as soon as you get the fk off the planet you disrespectful hemorrhoid.

 

you're perfectly aware that's an artificial variable that doesn't belong in a complex system that achieved perfect equilibrium millions of years ago, and would be self sustaining indefinitely without interference, yet you persist. tbh, you could use some clarity and decency slapped into that rotten melon of yours.

You are perfectly aware that you are part of the problem. You being human and humans being the scourge of the earth, maybe it's time for you to leave. Leave soon.  BUT, fuck off first .

 

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2 hours ago, 3to1 said:

I appreciate the link and I skimmed most of it, but somebody's pride in their country doesn't interest me, so much doesn't. I acknowledge your's and any one else's stance on the matter, but to me, this country represents an abstract entity that essentially stole part of a beautiful continent, turned into a coast to coast shopping mall that's become swine central and is infested by an automobile plague, among other things. that's neither here nor there, it's just one person's perspective.

my only allegiance is to the Earth and it's life, it's the closest thing I have to a spiritual connection. the planet is THE foundation, it also doesn't have a voice. that's all I've got to say.

 

 

That shopping mall is the most efficient way to deliver goods to people(customers). Do you hate people ? Too many people? You can fucking well leave to ease the problem a little bit. Bye.

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I don't believe we're living in a capitalist society any more. To my mind under capitalism those that own the money make the decisions, and if they stuff up they lose their money.

By contrast now the money is owned by institutions, and the decisions are made by executives who lose nothing when they fail, just move to another institution, taking their plundered loot with them.

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6 minutes ago, warbird said:

That shopping mall is the most efficient way to deliver goods to people(customers). Do you hate people ? Too many people? You can fucking well leave to ease the problem a little bit. Bye.

What?  Shopping malls are going defunct.  Amazon and online delivery is way more efficient.  Have you been in a Coma?

Troubling...

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13 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

fuck your 'goods'. it's time to sacrifice, asshole, it's called triage.

YOU can be the first sacrifice if your beliefs are so strong. Are you a TRUE BELIEVER?

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8 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

What?  Shopping malls are going defunct.  Amazon and online delivery is way more efficient.  Have you been in a Coma?

Troubling...

Amazon IS the mall writ large. 1/3 IQ won't like Amazon distribution plan,  trucks.

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

YOU can be the first sacrifice if your beliefs are so strong. Are you a TRUE BELIEVER?

?'true believer'?; you think this is some cult shit you righty clown, smh...we all 'sacrifice', on principle, and that means you too, because it's important, because we don't act against our own best interests or that of others, because we don't shit in the fkg nest, innit. god damn your numb disrespect and lack of maturity.

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6 hours ago, 3to1 said:

?'true believer'?; you think this is some cult shit you righty clown, smh...we all 'sacrifice', on principle, and that means you too, because it's important, because we don't act against our own best interests or that of others, because we don't shit in the fkg nest, innit. god damn your numb disrespect and lack of maturity.

This is funny on a sailing forum.

I have more stuff than I really need. Sheds full of it, so bought a shipping container. Lots of it is frivolous stuff.

But nothing is more frivolous than having a sailboat for fun. Not even a powerboat or a kayak.

We're all here because we do the most frivolous thing I can think up.

And no, sacrificing my sailboats, or any of my other boats, is NOT on the table.

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9 hours ago, 3to1 said:

?'true believer'?; you think this is some cult shit you righty clown, smh...we all 'sacrifice', on principle, and that means you too, because it's important, because we don't act against our own best interests or that of others, because we don't shit in the fkg nest, innit. god damn your numb disrespect and lack of maturity.

You are a self-important petulant twit who thinks that your beliefs & priorities supersede everyone else's.   That's got nothing to do with what those beliefs entail. 

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10 hours ago, Fakenews said:

What?  Shopping malls are going defunct.  Amazon and online delivery is way more efficient.  Have you been in a Coma?

Troubling...

For some things.  But not large items.

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11 hours ago, 3to1 said:

as soon as you get the fk off the planet you disrespectful hemorrhoid.

 

you're perfectly aware that's an artificial variable that doesn't belong in a complex system that achieved perfect equilibrium millions of years ago, and would be self sustaining indefinitely without interference, yet you persist. tbh, you could use some clarity and decency slapped into that rotten melon of yours.

 

People don't belong on the planet?  Here we get to the heart of your ideology.

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

People don't belong on the planet?  Here we get to the heart of your ideology.

Some people don't, others are fine

Since you seem to be confused about which planet this is, maybe you'd be happier elsewhere, anyway

-DSK

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Some people don't, others are fine

Since you seem to be confused about which planet this is, maybe you'd be happier elsewhere, anyway

-DSK

Here we go.  The elitists want to decide who lives and who dies.  

If anyone is going to leave, it should begin with those that think humans don't belong.

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

Here we go.  The elitists want to decide who lives and who dies.  

If anyone is going to leave, it should begin with those that think humans don't belong.

If anyone is going to be gotten rid of, it should begin with the ones who blame others for all their problems and want to use violence to cover up their mistakes.

-DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

If anyone is going to be gotten rid of, it should begin with the ones who blame others for all their problems and want to use violence to cover up their mistakes.

-DSK

It looks like we agree on something.  Those that advocate the use of violence by the government to implement their agenda should be the first to go.

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2 hours ago, jzk said:

Its always going to be something.

Yes, but a global acidic hypercapnia does not bode well for the growth of some plants, while others such as broadleaf, do well.  Ecology is a balance.  A world of broadleaf with no coral reefs or evergreens is an entirely different place.

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10 minutes ago, Laker said:

Yes, but a global acidic hypercapnia does not bode well for the growth of some plants, while others such as broadleaf, do well.  Ecology is a balance.  A world of broadleaf with no coral reefs or evergreens is an entirely different place.

A world with humans living twice their natural lifespan and flourishing combined with increased plant life of all kinds is a pretty solid win.  I don't think there is any case to be made that we are headed to a world of no evergreens or coral reefs.

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2 hours ago, jzk said:

It looks like we agree on something.  Those that advocate the use of violence by the government to implement their agenda should be the first to go.

Depends on the government, depends on the agenda. The US is a democracy, what do you suggest we with an intractable minority who cannot agree with the rest of us, and is intent on doing harm?

-DSK

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

A world with humans living twice their natural lifespan and flourishing combined with increased plant life of all kinds is a pretty solid win.  I don't think there is any case to be made that we are headed to a world of no evergreens or coral reefs.

Asking in earnest - have you seen evidence ANYWHERE in the oceans of improving health/expansion of coral reefs?    

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5 minutes ago, jzk said:

A world with humans living twice their natural lifespan and flourishing combined with increased plant life of all kinds is a pretty solid win.  I don't think there is any case to be made that we are headed to a world of no evergreens or coral reefs.

You really should pull your head out of whatever it's stuck in.

The evidence is that we will be fresh out of coral reefs in a fairly short time. They're going out faster than the polar bears

-DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Depends on the government, depends on the agenda. The US is a democracy, what do you suggest we with an intractable minority who cannot agree with the rest of us, and is intent on doing harm?

-DSK

We are not a democracy.  The majority can't just vote to get rid of a minority.  We are a Constitutional Republic founded on principles of limited government.  

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

You really should pull your head out of whatever it's stuck in.

The evidence is that we will be fresh out of coral reefs in a fairly short time. They're going out faster than the polar bears

-DSK

If coral reefs are in as much danger as polar bears, then the coral reefs will be fine.  What is your prediction for the date on which there will be no more coral reefs?  Let's memorialize your ignorance.

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:
6 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Depends on the government, depends on the agenda. The US is a democracy, what do you suggest we with an intractable minority who cannot agree with the rest of us, and is intent on doing harm?

 

We are not a democracy.  The majority can't just vote to get rid of a minority.  We are a Constitutional Republic founded on principles of limited government.  

Ah, so now you give up and go picking nits? Just exactly the sort of intellectual exercise you're suited for.

Go back and re-read what I said. The US has in fact voted to get rid of minorities before, and with good intentions took a darn long time trying peaceful options before finally just shooting as many of them as we could.

Not grasping the lessons of history, some folks seem determined to try it all over again. A simpler option would be, if you don't like it here (which you apparently don't) then get out. Go away, and find a place more to your liking. Or do you not have the balls to put your principles into action?

Now let's see where the coral reefs are growing, eh?

-DSK

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4 minutes ago, jzk said:

If coral reefs are in as much danger as polar bears, then the coral reefs will be fine.  What is your prediction for the date on which there will be no more coral reefs?  Let's memorialize your ignorance.

How 'bout you answer my question?   I've seen a visible decline, and an increase in the rate of decline in several reefs I've swam/snorkeled on in my short adult life.   I've not personally seen or heard of any health improvement/growth in coral reefs in that time.   

I *have* seen the Chesapeake Bay's health improve tremendously since its low in the early 70s - but it's a lot smaller than the oceans, and still has a helluva long way to go to get back to its productive heyday in the 1st half of the 20th century.  

So - if there's evidence that coral reefs are improving - I'd be very interested in hearing where and how, and looking for opportunities to leverage that success for our Chesapeake. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ah, so now you give up and go picking nits? Just exactly the sort of intellectual exercise you're suited for.

Go back and re-read what I said. The US has in fact voted to get rid of minorities before, and with good intentions took a darn long time trying peaceful options before finally just shooting as many of them as we could.

Not grasping the lessons of history, some folks seem determined to try it all over again. A simpler option would be, if you don't like it here (which you apparently don't) then get out. Go away, and find a place more to your liking. Or do you not have the balls to put your principles into action?

Now let's see where the coral reefs are growing, eh?

-DSK

My philosophy is much closer to that of the founders than most people here.  If you don't like limited government, why don't you move to Sweden or such?  The US is the last place on Earth to preserve freedom.  I am not quite ready to give up on it just because you are a clown.

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2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

How 'bout you answer my question?   I've seen a visible decline, and an increase in the rate of decline in several reefs I've swam/snorkeled on in my short adult life.   I've not personally seen or heard of any health improvement/growth in coral reefs in that time.   

I *have* seen the Chesapeake Bay's health improve tremendously since its low in the early 70s - but it's a lot smaller than the oceans, and still has a helluva long way to go to get back to its productive heyday in the 1st half of the 20th century.  

So - if there's evidence that coral reefs are improving - I'd be very interested in hearing where and how, and looking for opportunities to leverage that success for our Chesapeake. 

 

How about you cite where I said coral reefs were improving?  I said there was no case to be made that we were heading toward an Earth with no coral reefs.  I said plant life has increased on the planet tremendously over the last 30 years.   What is your prediction for when there will be no more coral reefs?

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

My philosophy is much closer to that of the founders than most people here.  If you don't like limited government, why don't you move to Sweden or such?  The US is the last place on Earth to preserve freedom.  I am not quite ready to give up on it just because you are a clown.

Your "philosophy," or what you've posted of it here, is a lot of childish drivel. Not remotely related to anything the Founders wrote into the Constitution.

Why do you insist that people you disagree with are elitist? Because you realize we're smarter than you? Are you scared of clowns? It's OK lots of children are. Santa Claus too.

-DSK

 

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19 minutes ago, jzk said:

A world with humans living twice their natural lifespan and flourishing combined with increased plant life of all kinds is a pretty solid win.  I don't think there is any case to be made that we are headed to a world of no evergreens or coral reefs.

Then you have not been there.  I do not think that you travel to the Canadian North as I have over about a 40 year period.  There are distinct and over-riding changes.  It was warmer at the North Pole than at Chicago many times this year, for instance.  Yes there is change and people will adapt.  However, the cost of change will be much more than the cost of remediation in many cases.  Ocean level rise is a biggie.  As far as coral reefs, yes we are headed to a world of greatly diminished coral reefs and thus a lot less marine life. Fisheries matter.

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It seems that most coral reefs are only 5,000 - 10,000 years old.

These people have been studying coral reefs and seem to think that many are thriving:

https://qz.com/1180919/coral-reefs-thrive-despite-global-warming-say-scientists-with-3d-images-from-scripps-institution-of-oceanography/

So, despite some reefs being in trouble, I am not willing to wreck civilization and shorten human lifespans over it.

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