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Sailor Fired for Cursing

It makes a funny headline but not so funny if you're the target.
 

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After two years, the association was about to recommend him to the U.S. Coast Guard (the federal agency that regulates Great Lakes pilots). But after a disagreement with the association president, the association suddenly informed the Coast Guard that they recommended against granting Captain Hight a license. The Coast Guard deferred to the association and suddenly he found himself marooned with no license, no job, and no way to go back to work.

The association provided the Coast Guard a couple flimsy reasons why it was not granting Captain Hight its blessing. The first was that Captain Hight used profanity on a job. That’s right, he was charged with swearing like a sailor. The second was that he failed to report a minor accident; an accident he didn’t cause and at first didn’t even know about.

The retaliation was possible because the Coast Guard has delegated its authority to the association, giving it an absolute veto over who can become a pilot. There is no other path to becoming a pilot on the St. Lawrence and Lake Ontario other than through the association’s training program. Captain Hight appealed to the Coast Guard to follow its own written rules and regulations (which do not require association approval), but it denied his appeal. He’s now taking his case to federal court in an effort to get back to work and end this unconstitutional system for anyone else who wants to travel in his wake.

 

I guess the cussing was even worse than the failure to report a minor accident, since it was given as the first reason.

Makes me think the association president should probably fuck off and show us his wife or girlfriends' tits.

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The world has gone past the point where these fucking professional association cocksuckers should be allowed to regulate themselves.

The fuckers are all guilty of covering their own asses and guarding their self interest instead of protecting the public.

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no license, no job, and no way to go back to work

Shouldn't this be that he has no pilot's license for the Great Lakes, no job as a pilot on the Great Lakes and no way to get back to work as a pilot on the Great Lakes?  Well, he would still have his Master's License. So now he's taking a flyer on a lawsuit with a nutjob libertarian law firm when he could work tomorrow morning albeit elsewhere and I'm supposed to care? I do, I really do, just not very much.

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The world has gone past the point where these fucking professional association cocksuckers should be allowed to regulate themselves.

The fuckers are all guilty of covering their own asses and guarding their self interest instead of protecting the public.

But why would they ever do something against their own self interest? :rolleyes:

(-jzk ;))

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13 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

Sailor Fired for Cursing

It makes a funny headline but not so funny if you're the target.
 

I guess the cussing was even worse than the failure to report a minor accident, since it was given as the first reason.

Makes me think the association president should probably fuck off and show us his wife or girlfriends' tits.

He did see her tits.

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

What???  That gov't regulation, enforcement and oversight actually be carried out by the gov't rather than be delegated to industry?  I'm not sure how that sounds socialistical, but what ev's.  

You need to take that "Understanding Irony" seminar again.

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The world has gone past the point where these fucking professional association cocksuckers should be allowed to regulate themselves.

The fuckers are all guilty of covering their own asses and guarding their self interest instead of protecting the public.

Burn those bitches down!

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Harbor pilots are one of the last remaining bastions of the old time middle ages guilds. I am not 100% sure if this still goes on to the extent it used to, but back in the day if your father or uncle wasn't a pilot then you weren't going to be one either.

 

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19 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Why is this surprising? You think the reasons given are even remotely relevant?

He upset the boss.

Strikes me as a reason to get fired from a company, not denied a government permission slip.

 

12 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Exactly.  Yet the push for small to no gov't is giving them outsized power.  

I think "shall issue" licenses could have a place here. Instead of the discretion of the President and flimsy reasons, some real ones on which everyone could agree.

When I was a flight instructor, the owner of the school was also an FAA examiner. If she denied a license, she gave a reason out of a book of such reasons.

That doesn't mean that a former women's world champ in aerobatics who has flown all her life and owns two flying establishments isn't a good choice to judge flying skills. She absolutely was, despite not working directly for the government.

16 hours ago, Olsonist said:

a lawsuit with a nutjob libertarian law firm

I'm surprised you don't take them on where they're really active: in the asset forfeiture and Kelo threads.

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On 5/4/2019 at 5:35 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

This ^^ is the result of "smaller government".  So is the practice of having Aircraft Manufacturers like Boeing do their own safety inspections and certifications on new aircraft or mods to existing aircraft.  

Be careful what you ask for.

It's a small price to pay for a "smaller, less intrusive" government.  

This way, we can make sure our governmental employees and are mandating and monitoring which bathroom folks use and what consenting adults do in the privacy of their home.

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13 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Harbor pilots are one of the last remaining bastions of the old time middle ages guilds. I am not 100% sure if this still goes on to the extent it used to, but back in the day if your father or uncle wasn't a pilot then you weren't going to be one either.

It's not like that here - it would probably help but it's not essential.

They are more akin to a tight union than an old time guild. Very strict qualifications to get in. IIRC 10 years as a ships master is the starting point.

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  • 1 year later...

Coast Guard Loses In Federal Court
 

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...

D.C. District Court Judge Amit Mehta ruled that the Coast Guard violated federal law in denying Captain Matthew Hight the opportunity to take an exam that would allow him to register as a pilot. Captain Hight’s victory is a rare instance of a federal agency losing a case about how it interprets its own regulations.

Prior to this decision, the Coast Guard allowed the St. Lawrence Seaway Pilots Association, a for-profit business, to determine who can and cannot work as a pilot on the Great Lakes. The members of the association are themselves pilots on the Great Lakes, and thus pick their own competition.

...

“The government must follow its own rules,” said IJ Senior Nutjob Anthony Sanders. “This decision is an important vindication of that principle: the government cannot arbitrarily deny a qualified American his right to earn an honest living. The Supreme Court has recently made clear that agencies cannot interpret their own rules however they wish and get away with it. Captain Hight’s win here is an example of that renewed attention to bureaucratic shenanigans making a difference in real people’s lives.”

Judge Mehta ruled that the Coast Guard violated the Administrative Procedure Act, which governs how federal agencies regulate. In his decision, Mehta wrote that the Coast Guard’s interpretation of its rules, “[M]ay be wise policy, but that is not what the regulations say, and the text controls.” Judge Mehta also noted that the Coast Guard had failed to offer any interpretation of its regulations that would justify its delegation of authority to the association.

...

 

It's not clear yet whether Captain Hight will actually be allowed to drive boats on the Great Lakes, but he's a step closer.

 

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1 minute ago, Shambolic Tom said:

Coast Guard Loses In Federal Court
 

It's not clear yet whether Captain Hight will actually be allowed to drive boats on the Great Lakes, but he's a step closer.

 

If he has had any"boating accidents" with assault weapons, they should deny the license to float on the water, IMO. Just sayin'.

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Just now, jocal505 said:

If he has had any" boating accidents" with his assault weapons, they should deny his pro license to float on the water, IMO. Just sayin'.

 

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On 5/4/2019 at 5:12 AM, Snore said:

Your #*@%! kidding me.   

 

Damned straight. These cocksucking, mangina-farting, motherfuckers sucked the peanuts out of a degenerates log of Christened shit, and then stretched the assholes of their douche-nugget slut-mongers, who wouldn't give two bollocks for chicken-skinned nutsack of their Great Uncle Abigail's crusty prostate.

They're a bunch of poopy-heads.

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15 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

That is the same "association" that screwed with the non-profit Norwegian 

Viking replica ship Draken Harald Harfagre

I'm much more upset about that . . 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/22/us/viking-ship-draken-harald-harfagre-great-lakes.html

Did they curse in Norwegian or something?

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On 5/4/2019 at 8:08 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Harbor pilots are one of the last remaining bastions of the old time middle ages guilds. I am not 100% sure if this still goes on to the extent it used to, but back in the day if your father or uncle wasn't a pilot then you weren't going to be one either.

 

Maybe not in all places, but it definitely still goes on.

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On 5/4/2019 at 3:50 AM, Shambolic Tom said:

Sailor Fired for Cursing

It makes a funny headline but not so funny if you're the target.
 

I guess the cussing was even worse than the failure to report a minor accident, since it was given as the first reason.

Makes me think the association president should probably fuck off and show us his wife or girlfriends' tits.

Only funny when you read the report and realize the lawsuit is more bullshit

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19 hours ago, jocal505 said:

It couldn't be Kelo. They lost on that one. :(

The buyback of Suzette Kelo's home was a great victory for collectivists over individual property rights for sure, but I'm not sure how it's any more relevant than the 7 Supreme Court cases they've won, or the recent loss in Brownback v King.

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What kind of curse did he cast??

I maintain it is impossible to curse as No such thing exists.

it is as absurd as complaining about someone cussing at angels, or raping ghosts. 
 

what’s next? Are they going to fire a sailor for teasing mermaids or a cowboy for improper unicorn roping?? 
 

Fired for cursing?? How utterly absurd. 
 

 

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  • 6 months later...
On 3/23/2021 at 4:15 AM, Gouvernail said:

What kind of curse did he cast??

I maintain it is impossible to curse as No such thing exists.

it is as absurd as complaining about someone cussing at angels, or raping ghosts. 
 

what’s next? Are they going to fire a sailor for teasing mermaids or a cowboy for improper unicorn roping?? 
 

Fired for cursing?? How utterly absurd. 
 

 

I just wonder what we're supposed to call the downfucker now.

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On 5/4/2019 at 8:08 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Harbor pilots are one of the last remaining bastions of the old time middle ages guilds. I am not 100% sure if this still goes on to the extent it used to, but back in the day if your father or uncle wasn't a pilot then you weren't going to be one either.

 

It's pretty  much like that now.

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2 hours ago, Remodel said:
On 5/4/2019 at 9:08 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Harbor pilots are one of the last remaining bastions of the old time middle ages guilds. I am not 100% sure if this still goes on to the extent it used to, but back in the day if your father or uncle wasn't a pilot then you weren't going to be one either.

 

It's pretty  much like that now.

Also, if you question how the guild is being run, you're not a good candidate.

In the topic case, the purported reasons for denying the license were a use of profanity and an accident that happened to a tugboat and that Capt. Hight did not know about.

If those seem like silly reasons and make you wonder what the real ones are,
 

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...

The association is a for-profit business, and a buy-in costs close to $200,000. One reason it costs so much is that the association owns an expensive lake house, inflating its assets. 7

Nevertheless, Captain Hight was ready to do this in order to pursue his calling, and the association was ready to accept him. It listed him on a “buy-in ballot” in January 2018, and was ready to have him join later that spring. All that was left was for him to take an exam administered by the Coast Guard, get his formal registration as a pilot, and then “buy in” and be accepted as a member of the association.

But then things started to go wrong. Captain Hight had been questioning some business practices of the association, especially regarding the powers of the association president. He stated his concern to some of his colleagues that the president did not provide the association’s members, including the treasurer, access to the association’s financial records. Captain Hight thought this practice was ethically questionable and financially irresponsible. Remember, Captain Hight was expected to contribute to the association’s finances in a significant way.

Suddenly everything changed. In early March 2018, the president of the association sent a letter to the Coast Guard advising it that it should not renew his temporary registration and that he should not be given a full license.

The negative recommendation was based on two minor incidents.

...

 

Uh huh. Two minor ones and one major one: he asked to see where his money was going.

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6 hours ago, Excoded Tom said:

I just wonder what we're supposed to call the downfucker now.

Well….. it doesn’t have sex…. 
 

and I have always wondered why a synonym for father of subsequent children is a derogatory term but the fact a guy has fatgered multiple children with the same woman is not considered awful.

after all, for  those who need an explanation, if a woman has more than one child, somebody is a motherfucker. 

 

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The Coast Guard has little to no jurisdiction over most pilotage in the US.  Yes, they do license and regulate the "federals", meaning coastwise trade, ships trading between US ports, which requires a "Jones Act" US-built ship to engage in that trade.  

But for the Non-US ships trading "foreign", which is about what, 95% of ships we see in our ports, Congress from the get-go chose to regulate only the domestic fleet, not the "international" ones.  Which vacuum was of course filled by the individual States, who commission their own pilots, since they (rightly) didn't want the local-knowledge-clueless shipmasters from Portugal, or any foreign flags and ports, running aground or colliding with locals through lack of local knowledge.  Those state-sponsored pilot associations tend to be clannish, pass it on through the generations, outfits.  Someone earlier in this thread said "guilds", which they pretty much are ("the toughest test to become a pilot is the DNA test"), is still true.

So the Coast Guard isn't all that used to regulating pilots on a large scale.  The St Lawrence must be different since it's bordered by two nations, not states. So they do regulate there.  But they still leave the "making" and "disciplining" of pilots, even the federal ones, to that particular pilot association.  Though if you have the right pilotage endorsements on your License, I think you can be your own pilot, though I'll guess that's not too common?

So not to excuse Charlie Golf here, but what's going on with the local pilot association that the Coast Guard is apparently deferring to?   I know more about the southern ports than the northern ones, but that doesn't seem to keep me from spouting off  ;-)

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2 hours ago, nolatom said:

what's going on with the local pilot association that the Coast Guard is apparently deferring to?

Well, they have a million dollar lake house and don't wish to talk about it, among other things.

I'm not sure why a pilot guild needs a fancy lake house.

2 hours ago, nolatom said:

The St Lawrence must be different since it's bordered by two nations, not states. So they do regulate there.

It is different and they do regulate. From the link above:
 

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International shipping only reached the Great Lakes in 1959. That is when the U.S. and Canadian governments finished a system of locks that allowed larger ships engaged in international trade to journey up and down the St. Lawrence River and between the Great Lakes. Congress passed the Great Lakes Pilotage Act in 1960 to regulate how international shipping uses pilots, and the training and registration of the pilots themselves.[c]Pub. L. 86-555, June 30, 1960, 74 Stat. 259.[/c] The Canadian government passed similar legislation, and the two countries jointly provide pilots to foreign vessels as they use the waters of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence.

The pilots are highly regulated. The Coast Guard sets the rates that ships must pay for pilots to be on board, and even dictates how many pilots are licensed in various parts of the Great Lakes.[c]See, e.g., 83 FR 52355. [/c] To provide for pilot training, Congress allowed for the creation of “voluntary associations” to provide for “pilotage pools.”[c]46 U.S.C. § 9304(a).[/c] How pilots become trained and licensed (technically called “registration”) is spelled out in detailed regulations.[c]See 46 C.F.R. § 401.220, et seq.[/c] The act Congress passed, and the regulations the Coast Guard adopted, make these associations appear to be strictly monitored.

Yet, when it comes to actually implementing these regulations, the Coast Guard is out to sea.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/21/2021 at 11:18 AM, Lochnerian Tom said:
On 3/21/2021 at 11:01 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

Only funny when you read the report and realize the lawsuit is more bullshit

You mean the one the IJ just won and the Coast Guard just lost in federal court?

Looks like the USCG is going the CLEAN way and just not accepting their loss in court.
 

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The U.S. Coast Guard refuses to hoist the white flag and register Captain Matthew Hight to pilot ships on the Great Lakes, despite losing a federal lawsuit that forced it to administer a required test—which Hight passed. Now Captain Hight, represented by the Institute for Justice (IJ), has filed a second federal lawsuit demanding that the Coast Guard issue a decision on his application for registration.

“Captain Hight has earned the right to practice his trade, and there is no legitimate reason for the Coast Guard to simply sit on his application, month after month,” said IJ Nutjob Jeff Redfern. “Justice delayed is justice denied.”

It is rare that a federal agency loses a lawsuit about how it interprets its own regulations. Yet that is exactly what happened after Captain Hight filed suit in 2019. Hight spent years training to pilot ships on the Great Lakes. Yet when he applied to take the Coast Guard administered test, he was denied because of opposition from the St. Lawrence Seaway Pilots’ Association, a for-profit business.

The association’s opposition came after Captain Hight raised questions about how the association’s leadership was managing the association’s finances. Among other supposed offenses, the association complained that Captain Hight used profanity while piloting a ship—allegedly swearing like a sailor. As far as the Coast Guard was concerned, the association’s complaint was the end of Hight’s career as a pilot.

Captain Hight’s first lawsuit challenged the constitutionality of the Coast Guard’s delegation of its power to a private association, and it also argued that the Coast Guard’s refusal to let Captain Hight take its exam violated the Coast Guard’s own regulations. D.C. District Court Judge Amit Mehta ordered the Coast Guard to let Captain Hight take the test, and Captain Hight took the exam on June 29, 2021. The Captain passed the test, but—apart from sending a one-line letter congratulating him for his passing score—the Coast Guard has totally failed to take any further action to register him as a pilot even after repeated requests by Hight’s counsel.

The lawsuit filed today asserts that the Coast Guard is violating the Administrative Procedure Act with its unreasonable delay in deciding whether to grant Captain Hight his registration. If the Coast Guard does not act soon, Captain Hight will be unable to start working in time for the start of the shipping season in the spring.

“I never wanted to sue the Coast Guard, but it is just not right that someone who is fully trained and who passed the test should not be allowed to pilot ships,” said Captain Hight.

...

 

I doubt "we can wait as long as we want" will be an acceptable answer in court, so expect IJ to win again.

 

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