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Any Laser 28 owners on SA?   I’m a brand new Laser 28 owner and I’m sure I’ll need advice along the way.   Looking for connections, tuning tips, polars, etc

3C639DE9-097D-47F1-90A3-5A3B894A0F24.jpeg

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3 hours ago, 89Tiger said:

Any Laser 28 owners on SA?   I’m a brand new Laser 28 owner and I’m sure I’ll need advice along the way.   Looking for connections, tuning tips, polars, etc

3C639DE9-097D-47F1-90A3-5A3B894A0F24.jpeg

Congrats

Those are cool boats. The best tip I have at the moment, be careful in the fog

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, 89Tiger said:

Any Laser 28 owners on SA?   I’m a brand new Laser 28 owner and I’m sure I’ll need advice along the way.   Looking for connections, tuning tips, polars, etc

3C639DE9-097D-47F1-90A3-5A3B894A0F24.jpeg

Why aren't you flush against the bow support?  I'm crazy about strapping things down and would expect another yellow strap up near the forward supports.  

This is when you tell me that you were no where near leaving with much securing left to do.  

One of the few keelboats I ever thought was very cool and it looks like you got a gem.  Have fun!!!

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5 minutes ago, 89Tiger said:

 but relatively inactive group compared to here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.  

 

Active here???????????????  In what?????????????????????????

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1 hour ago, Fleet5 said:

The boat can develop a strong weather helm in gusty conditions. Play the adjustable backstay. As the gust hits, pull hard and quick That opens the leech and depowers the rig. The traveller and/or sheet are too slow. 

What purchase works best?  Sounds very similar to the J27 which is also many years ago.  

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6 hours ago, Fleet5 said:

I think we just used the standard purchase. The idea is to do it RIGHT AWAY. Then the boat accelerates bringing the apparent wind forward and reducing heel.

The boat weight is less than 4000 pounds. It does accelerate!!

The wife of the owner of the boat I was sailing on got to work remotely via the internet. So they sold the boat and bought a trailer home to see the country. He sold it to a guy and his young daughter in Sheboygan WI. There was supposed to be a flock of them there.

He had previously been the skipper of Moonraker, LM Case 32.

https://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/1998_Lake_Michigan_Crew_Over_Board_Study.pdf 

After that, his crew was less than enthusiastic about sailing, so he needed more crew. So I got a bunch of kids from the Junior Fleet to race on Wednesday nights with him. We had oodles of fun, especially eating the "Fun size" snickers bars.

The crew got so good they made the MOB recovery described in LM Case 43. Lose a MOB while under spinnaker and finish sixth anyway. Kids don't know enough to know their limitations!

I sailed for years on one of the Sheboygan Laser 28’s. There’s a funny story about the boat you just mentioned. That guy in Sheboygan you’re  talking about previously owned a Laser 28. After selling it, the only boat he found he liked while shopping was....  another Laser 28. He had the hull repainted bright red and still owns it. 

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One of the best boats I've owned.

The best tip I can give is look after that Bukh. It is pretty much the lightest diesel built and parts are getting harder and harder to come by.

The second best tip is have fun. But that will come naturally!

IMG_0616.jpg

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Although the Laser 28 forum is not real active, there is a wealth of information stowed away in that forum.  Use the advanced search and be sure to click the "any date" tab in the drop down box.  Just about anything you need to know is in there somewhere.

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58 minutes ago, Fleet5 said:

Peter the Plumber sold him the boat at a reduced price because the daughter really wanted it! She should be about 25 years old now.

I bet she LOVES TO SAIL!

Not quite that old. I think she’s 19 or 20 now. That’s the only one left in town of our fleet. We were up to 5 at one point. 

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"Look after that Bukh".  Definitely.  Parts are becoming hard to come by.  The source in Canada retired in 17.  He had a closing sale and many of us purchased multiple spares, so if you get in a pinch, cry for help in the Laser forum.  Some owners have found alternative parts as well.  Check the water cooling lines.  There are a couple of narrow passages that clog and are notorious for compromising cooling water flow.  Especially if your boat has been in salt water.  Specifically, that hose connection on the starboard side of the motor going to the thermostat.  The overheat alarm sensor is notoriously faulty, so it doesn't necessarily mean you are hot.  Buy one of those little laser heat guns and check the block regularly until you are comfortable that the water flow is normal and the motor is at proper temp....which escapes me at the moment, but I have it written down on my boat if you need it.

Congrats on the new boat.

Hitchhiker - that's an awesome photo!  Those shoulders are working.  Love the human pole.  Leading/planing into a mark?   

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That previous pic was leading into the bottom mark. Every boat owed us time except the blue kite in the background.

This is another pic that I like.  Sailing toward Cat Harbour.

  

HH.jpg

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On 5/10/2019 at 11:11 AM, Monkey said:

The Laser 28 really is a fun boat. This picture turned out to be the last time I ever sailed on one. 

CB82533E-73CD-4F65-8BF8-683F42EBCBE5.jpeg

Well, if you are ever in the Upstate of SC- let’s go sailing on mine!

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We had a bright red Laser 28 for teaching at Offshore Sailing School in the mid 1980s. I liked that the Bukh diesel could be started with a pull cord if necessary.

Enjoyed the boat so much I'd go day sailing on it on a day off after teaching on boats all week. Dave Ellis

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3 hours ago, sailwriter said:

We had a bright red Laser 28 for teaching at Offshore Sailing School in the mid 1980s. I liked that the Bukh diesel could be started with a pull cord if necessary.

Enjoyed the boat so much I'd go day sailing on it on a day off after teaching on boats all week. Dave Ellis

I was ready to die after finally managing to pull start the Bukh!  I never knew someone was supposed to open the decompression valve while you pull. :D

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On 5/11/2019 at 9:26 PM, Notquitecapnron said:

No motor sailing.  The oil vent cap will spit the oil out of the motor in a hurry if you are heeled over, and there is not much oil in that one banger.  

It's my biggest issue with the boat. And no one on the Laser forum seems to be sure where the 'tipping point' is before oil starts to spill. I did a delivery under power with enough wind to heel the boat hard and sort of wondered then.

Ditto what everyone said on the Bukh, too. Hunting down parts no longer available in North America can be a real PIA. DO ask questions on the Laser 28 forum. Everyone is very generous with information and work arounds for parts etc.

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On 5/12/2019 at 12:34 PM, Monkey said:

I was ready to die after finally managing to pull start the Bukh!  I never knew someone was supposed to open the decompression valve while you pull. :D

I remember finding that out on a Moody 28

starter was out, my dad tells me to crank, then gave me shit for being weak as a kitten, I told him to try it himself, after some cursing he finally accepted that maybe we could read the manual...... found the decompression valve.... much better.

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I crew on a Laser 28 every Wednesday. It is a fun boat that responds very well to minor tweaks to your sail trim. This has drastically improved my skills as it is very easy to see when you are too hard on the sheets, or too soft. 

I just had to deal with the Buhk engines fuel lines being rotten and falling apart. This seems like no big deal to fix. Well it was fun and taught me a lot about that engine. There are a series of fuel lines that have banjo fittings on them. These banjo fittings are a whole mess of sizes but all use the same size of hose. This is not a common occurrence with Banjo fittings in north america. These banjo fittings make you believe the lines are dealing with much higher pressure than you are, they are all either before the injection pump or after the injector. So the pressure is not very high, 100 psi range. You can carefully cut the old crimp off and save the fitting. Then go and get diesel injection line at your local  automotive store. If you go to a shop that make hydraulic lines they can fit new crimps over the old fittings. I had originally sourced a line that was going to be 3 weeks out and cost +$100 but this route ended up costing $34 for most of the lines.

Bleeding the Bukh is a pain. There is a manual pump on the port side  fore of the fuel filter. I tried this but it took forever. Ended up flipping the decompression lever, cranking the engine for 5 seconds bleeding the air out in one place then after the starter cooled doing it to another. If the system still has air in it you can get it to start with a touch of ether on a rag and slightly covering the air intake. The engine will run and get you out in a pinch but more bleeding will be needed.

If there is anything specific you need let me know. If I don't have the answer I'll talk to the skipper

 

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 Brian Chapman of uk sailmakers in Toronto did a great tuning guide. Unfortnately Brian passed a way. Try find a copy of his guide. You can generally flatten the main more than you think and this helps keep the boat flat. Flat is fast. 

The boat responds to halyard tension . Pay attention to it. Did I say flat is fast  

Its a great boat, have fun. 

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9 hours ago, Santana20AE said:

Is there any other diesel that could replace the Bulkh?

There was one for sale in the Miami area that was advertising a yanmar diesel.   It may have had a conversion to a standard strut and shaft with the engine a little further forward.

It caught my eye, but I am currently not in a position to pull the trigger yet.

- Stumbling

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On 5/12/2019 at 9:25 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Hey, you're not dead yet. Don't give up hope!

;)

FB- Doug

Is the baby blue one at Whittaker Creek still there?  Rotting through the stands?  What's the story?

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9 minutes ago, GMiller said:

Is the baby blue one at Whittaker Creek still there?  Rotting through the stands?  What's the story?

Y'know, I haven't been down there in a while..... ought to go check. If the price was right....... yeah I need another boat project! I just finished a big house project, deck & steps and added a flagstone patio just to show off...... that should hold it a while, it's boat time!!

31 minutes ago, Notquitecapnron said:

If I needed an alternative, I think I would research Beta Marine.  Small Kubota diesels with sail drive options.  13 hp.  Under 250lbs.

Those are sweet units and they are probably the easiest install you can get with an inboard diesel.

FB- Doug

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 I forget what the marina is called now, but i misspoke about Whittaker Creek, it was at Minnesott.  As you turned off the road to go down the hill on the sand/rock driveway, it was on ones right. 

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15 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Y'know, I haven't been down there in a while..... ought to go check. If the price was right....... yeah I need another boat project! I just finished a big house project, deck & steps and added a flagstone patio just to show off...... that should hold it a while, it's boat time!!

Those are sweet units and they are probably the easiest install you can get with an inboard diesel.

FB- Doug

The issue is the current location of the saildrive does not have enough overhead space under the cockpit deck to have a vertically oriented engine.    That is why the one with the Yanmar had the engine bed further forward to be more under the companionway.   You might be able to do something with an antique Yanmar YSB or YSE and a sail drive leg to fit it in the same place, but that is incrementally better than the old Bukh for parts availablity.

- Stumbling

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13 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:
16 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Those (Kubota saildrive, Beta Marine) are sweet units and they are probably the easiest install you can get with an inboard diesel.

 

The issue is the current location of the saildrive does not have enough overhead space under the cockpit deck to have a vertically oriented engine.    That is why the one with the Yanmar had the engine bed further forward to be more under the companionway.   You might be able to do something with an antique Yanmar YSB or YSE and a sail drive leg to fit it in the same place, but that is incrementally better than the old Bukh for parts availablity.

- Stumbling

I thought the Laser 28 had a traditional inboard, shaft, packing gland, etc; not a saildrive?

I can't remember, do they have a bridge deck? Might be able to tweak some dimension there, although now you're getting into PITA territory, rebuilding the cockpit. Of course, moving the engine forward a bit might do the boat some favors anyway.

I helped a friend put in a Beta diesel, it was a drop-in for his old Atomic 4 rather than a saildrive. To save money he did not buy the kit, just the bare engine (and that added tremendously to the skilled labor needed to actually get it fully installed, up and running). We did a cardboard mock-up of the engine first to see how it was going to fit. That saved us a lot of time and aggro, as it was we had to put the engine in once to test fit, without the mock-up we would have had to 3 or 4 times.

Apologies for getting off topic

FB- Doug

 

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8 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I thought the Laser 28 had a traditional inboard, shaft, packing gland, etc; not a saildrive?

I can't remember, do they have a bridge deck? Might be able to tweak some dimension there, although now you're getting into PITA territory, rebuilding the cockpit. Of course, moving the engine forward a bit might do the boat some favors anyway.

I helped a friend put in a Beta diesel, it was a drop-in for his old Atomic 4 rather than a saildrive. To save money he did not buy the kit, just the bare engine (and that added tremendously to the skilled labor needed to actually get it fully installed, up and running). We did a cardboard mock-up of the engine first to see how it was going to fit. That saved us a lot of time and aggro, as it was we had to put the engine in once to test fit, without the mock-up we would have had to 3 or 4 times.

Apologies for getting off topic

FB- Doug

 

Have to squint at the photo, but the saildrive is visible :

main.jpg

- Stumbling

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And the class rules:

http://www.laser28.com/Class.aspx?selpage=Rules

4. Measurement

a) The hull, keel, rudder, saildrive, deck, spars, standing rigging, running rigging, fittings and the placing of fittings and equipment shall conform to the original design. Tolerances are intended to allow for manufacturing discrepancies only and shall not be used to gain an advantage or alter the original design. In dispute, measurement of yachts can only be validated by a recognised measurer of the Laser 28 International Class Association. In the case of a measurement dispute on the hull, keel, rudder, saildrive, deck, spars, rigging, type of fittings and equipment and the placing of same not explicitly covered by these Rules, the following procedure shall be adopted:

 

- Stumbling

 

Also check opening entry of the thread for a picture with a better view.

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It’s definitely a sail drive. One at our club was repowered with a Volvo diesel and sail drive. The diesel was much heavier and the sail drive larger and Draggier. It definitely hurt the boat’s performance. 

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I’ve been racing Laser 28s since the first prototype in 1984 and currently own one of the 13 boats we have at the RSTLYC in Montreal.

We often get 10 boats out for an evening race of tight racing.

My best advice is to winterise the engine properly, cylinder heads are no longer available. LSM Diesel in Denmark still has many parts available.

The saildrive internals are from a Suzuki outboard design.

Enjoy your boat.

97B761E8-EEC6-4852-B0D4-E20DCD8FD55A.jpeg

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On 5/29/2019 at 10:13 AM, Monkey said:

It’s definitely a sail drive. One at our club was repowered with a Volvo diesel and sail drive. The diesel was much heavier and the sail drive larger and Draggier. It definitely hurt the boat’s performance. 

Forgive me. I have seen a couple, maybe 3 or 4, with conventional drives and foolishly assumed that was the standard

shasa+keel.jpg

img.php?t=1&id=6806980

crane+2013.jpg

Always glad to learn more, so thank you all!

FB- Doug

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16 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Forgive me. I have seen a couple, maybe 3 or 4, with conventional drives and foolishly assumed that was the standard

shasa+keel.jpg

img.php?t=1&id=6806980

crane+2013.jpg

Always glad to learn more, so thank you all!

FB- Doug

Those must all have been repowered. Totally understandable considering how hard it is to find parts. The first one even has a new keel, so clearly isn’t worried about one design. 

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On 6/1/2019 at 11:36 AM, FoggiestIdea said:

I’ve been racing Laser 28s since the first prototype in 1984 and currently own one of the 13 boats we have at the RSTLYC in Montreal.

We often get 10 boats out for an evening race of tight racing.

My best advice is to winterise the engine properly, cylinder heads are no longer available. LSM Diesel in Denmark still has many parts available.

The saildrive internals are from a Suzuki outboard design.

Enjoy your boat.

97B761E8-EEC6-4852-B0D4-E20DCD8FD55A.jpeg

We still race the prototype here in San Francisco. What did you think of it compared to your other Laser 28?

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  • 3 months later...

If it's shockingly low and you know the boat is sound, which most of them are, the only question is if it's right for you.  You need five to race it in any wind.  We raced today in 13-16 with 4 up and the lack of rail meat hurt us to wind. 6 would have been good.  It was blast downwind! :D

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3 minutes ago, reverend mother said:

I believe I saw it a month ago in the west yard, bow pointing to the gypsum plant.

 

My assumption is wrong.  Thanks for the correction.

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2 hours ago, Notquitecapnron said:

If it's shockingly low and you know the boat is sound, which most of them are, the only question is if it's right for you.  You need five to race it in any wind.  We raced today in 13-16 with 4 up and the lack of rail meat hurt us to wind. 6 would have been good.  It was blast downwind! :D

I raced on one for quite a few years, so I know their quirks. There’s a picture up thread of us finishing up the Chicago Mac. I still laugh when I go back and watch Clean’s commentary of the start. “Holy shit, that’s a Laser 28.” (The Mac had a minimum length of 28’). We had a great race going until we broke basically every possible navigation tool. We even lost the damn windex. We finished though. 

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There is a Laser 28 in Fort Myers that keeps coming back on CL:

https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/boa/d/cape-coral-laser-international-28/6964492943.html

She has had a swap to a Yanmar motor.   There has to be something serious about the boat to be priced at $3,950 yet has been on CL for well over a year.   (I have been looking for a good PHRF boat of MORC vintage for a long time, so these things catch my eye.)

Obviously a candidate for refit in order to race.

- Stumbling

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3 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

There is a Laser 28 in Fort Myers that keeps coming back on CL:

https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/boa/d/cape-coral-laser-international-28/6964492943.html

She has had a swap to a Yanmar motor.   There has to be something serious about the boat to be priced at $3,950 yet has been on CL for well over a year.   (I have been looking for a good PHRF boat of MORC vintage for a long time, so these things catch my eye.)

Obviously a candidate for refit in order to race.

- Stumbling

It looks like it’s been stripped. I don’t even see jib tracks. 

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3 hours ago, Monkey said:

It looks like it’s been stripped. I don’t even see jib tracks. 

I had not even noticed that.   It looks like it has a track for a 100% or less jib between the shrouds and the mast on the cabin top, and a real short track on the cabin top edge, but that appears... to be being used as a fairlead to the cabin top winch.   Could it never had been set up for a >100% headsail?

But hey, its got twinkle lights on the stern pulpit!

- Stumbling

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  • 6 months later...

You may want to edit your post.   Some one with less scruples may change your Craigslist ad.   You posted the link to manage your ad.

Also I’ll toss in the obligatory   Buy an ad in the classified at sailing anarchy and support the website...

 

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Issues with parts availability of Bukh Diesel is a concern.  A similar weight diesel does not exist.  So here is a gasoline powered alternative.  Considering teh prototype had a Honda engine to begin with, might this be an alternative?

http://www.fram.nl/yachts/pionier/MB2A_50S_1978_en.pdf

MB2A_50S_1978_en.pdf

 

 

 

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