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Santa Cruz 70 - Fleet Roll Call


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1 minute ago, Monkey said:

No calculation needed, it’d be laughable to expect it to float the boat. It’s a space equivalent to less than the head on a typical 30’ boat. 

That's what engineers do. Just satisfying his curiosity  and passing the info along.

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I had the cash piled up to get a 70, until I went sailing on one at age 60: nope, no way. If I was still 30, no problem. But it was only the under 30s aboard that could actually work the boat, all us

Though our pedigree racing days are over,  we definitely have warm, dry bunks and a well-stocked galley (and bar) on Drumbeat. There's probably some merit to crew morale and being able to fight anothe

Yes they did get beat up on handicap racing.  However, the 70 class has only ever been interested on how they did against their own.  They didn't care about overall handicap placing against other desi

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Just now, Tom O'Keefe said:

That's what engineers do. Just satisfying his curiosity  and passing the info along.

As an engineer, I get it!  But as a previous low level lackey back in the day, I had to crawl in there to clean, so know that space way to well!  Lol!

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Totally can relate. Spent more than my share contorting my 6'5" lankey frame into many bilges,anchor lockers  and around steering quadrants than most would believe. 

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7 hours ago, silent bob said:

  Frisch went on to run the Victoria program for Mike Campbell (RIP!) for many years.  He recently took over the 49er Saloon in Long Beach.

Mike was always so cool to me as a teenager. He is missed.

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7 hours ago, Monkey said:

No calculation needed, it’d be laughable to expect it to float the boat. It’s a space equivalent to less than the head on a typical 30’ boat. 

Wouldn't need to float the boat. Just making it sink stern first would be enough to make trouble for the rafts. 

Never had a boat sink under/near me, but been dismasted in the middle of the night (twice) and the prospect of being tangled up with sinking wreckage is pretty scary

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1 minute ago, sledracr said:

Ah.  I think Evo sold not too long after Terry died, so maybe new owner is still in that honeymoon phase...?

 

No I think the honeymoon is long over...

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39 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Any guesses what it cost run a SC70 program annually?

Others will know far better than me, but my guess is it's well into 6 digits to do it right.

Back in the day, rumor has it that Roy E. would budget upward of $1M in a Transpac year....

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A proper budget would be $300K  to $500K a year, that will include entry fees, housing for the crew, flights, food, sails, boat upgrades, repair work, general maintenance, storage, deliveries, insurance.     Depends on how much sailing the boat will be doing and how much optimizing you want.   

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5 hours ago, IMR said:

A proper budget would be $300K  to $500K a year, that will include entry fees, housing for the crew, flights, food, sails, boat upgrades, repair work, general maintenance, storage, deliveries, insurance.     Depends on how much sailing the boat will be doing and how much optimizing you want.   

my dad campaigned the andrews 56 Aldora here on the west coast for a few years in the 90's, while being smaller i dont think it was too much cheaper than the 70's, and i know with a few mexico races, beer can's, catalina series etc, he would spend north of 200k with a boat captain, sail wardrobe, travel, and all the other misc. bullshit. i cant quote the exact amount but i remember it being somewhere around there. playing with that crowd is not cheap in the least, but it was fun as hell doing it on someone else's dime!

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On 10/11/2019 at 2:21 PM, IMR said:

A proper budget would be $300K  to $500K a year, that will include entry fees, housing for the crew, flights, food, sails, boat upgrades, repair work, general maintenance, storage, deliveries, insurance.     Depends on how much sailing the boat will be doing and how much optimizing you want.   

The high end of your guess was close to what a top boat spent on running a season on the Great Lakes. A little short though. 
Edit:  to be fair, they relentlessly gave away/lent/sold spare parts to keep the fleet alive. I sailed on a competitor, but did contract work for the boat I’m referring too. 

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The Seventies were And are beautiful, not just the boats but the music and the clothes and the girls and the drugs, (Sopers, methaquualudes, whatever.....). When you see those sleds line up, on the row after they finish, they take your breath away. Ohhhh to be on one for the ride through the Ka`iwi channel..... The Disney's and many others know, Alan Andrews and the owners of his designs know, and even day sailers on small boats, like me know.......They must be beyond cool. I always try to get out and see some of the transpac sleds finish, they light it up passing the DH Buoy. We are living in a great time, foiling IMOCA's, "old" 65-70' reincarnated VO's 100' one trick ponys, L'Hydroptere finally found a home. I think the Seventy footers will always be greeted with enthusiasim and Aloha when they do the Transpac, win, place, or show because they are such a match. Newer, smaller more leading edge  designs will eventually prevail re: records and barn doors but that era was and still is magical.

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On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 6:40 PM, Monkey said:

The high end of your guess was close to what a top boat spent on running a season on the Great Lakes. A little short though. 
Edit:  to be fair, they relentlessly gave away/lent/sold spare parts to keep the fleet alive. I sailed on a competitor, but did contract work for the boat I’m referring too. 

My dream of picking up one and using it for Beer Cans is dead then at that annual running rate! :lol:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Something is happening in the SC 70 Fleet.  Something wonderful.   Hull 14 has a new owner, and a trusted, old SC 70 program is coming back on line....presently getting ready to race on the west coast. ...
 

and...It's worth mentioning again that 70 refers to the IOR rating to which the boat was built.  The SC 70 LOA is 68 feet.

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On 6/29/2019 at 4:04 PM, Blitz said:

I think that one's accounted for.  Where did you see it?  It used to be in Tacoma, wa.  Raced on it a few times, very cool boat but been cruzerized.

Often mistaken for an SC70, Drumbeat is indeed a NM68 as someone pointed out. Vancouver is our new home port. Would love to hear some stories if you've sailed on her. She's definitely been cruiserized, but she's still pretty fast. :-)

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40 minutes ago, Drumbeat_87627 said:

Often mistaken for an SC70, Drumbeat is indeed a NM68 as someone pointed out. Vancouver is our new home port. Would love to hear some stories if you've sailed on her. She's definitely been cruiserized, but she's still pretty fast. :-)

I’m guessing the confusion is based off a previous Drumbeat (not sure who owned it then). When I worked on Cynosure, the SC70, half the emergency stuff inside was still labeled Drumbeat. 

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On 5/20/2019 at 3:02 PM, sledracr said:

-68s built, not all of the same design, but IIRC 6 of them (built by Choate, Geraughty or others) were fairly similar including Drumbeat, Swiftsure III (later Blue Ruby), the original Pyewacket (later Starship-I), Marishten (now Coruba), Cheval (later Denali)  and the original Magnitude.... plus Maverick, fairly similar shape but built of aluminum

This is excellent information, thanks! I've been slowly tracking down Drumbeat's sisters. Denali seems to have been sold last year and is now Bolt.

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40 minutes ago, Blitz said:

Here's a write-up of the 2012 duwamish head race.  Cal 20 fleet 8 sailed her in that series.  Cool pick of us at duwamish head.

http://www.pressure-drop.us/forums/content.php?2124-Duamish-Head&styleid=4

That photo was blown up and given to us by our broker (who is on the helm in the photo). It now sits above my nav station. Now I know the story! Thank-you so much!

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22 minutes ago, Blitz said:

Write up of the 87 transpac.  She was second across the line 1 hr behind Merlin.

https://2019.transpacyc.com/history/article/the-story-of-the-1987-transpacific-yacht-race

I'd found that one, thanks! She didn't get the Barn Door Trophy (line honours), but corrected over Merlin for the win that year. Even today, her time of 8:13 is still pretty respectable without the megamillion-dollar programs of the new Maxis. NM68  Bolt (Ex Denali) did the Transpac last year and posted  8:16:29:49 elapsed. Not far off... Looking forward to heading offshore to see what she can do, cruiserized.

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4 minutes ago, Blitz said:

I believe that was Mark Lindeman at the helm.  Hope you fixed that cracked primary drum.  She was a blast to sail.  Will you be racing her?

It was indeed Mark at the helm! He had the drum welded for us. It's not perfect (yet) but it works well for now.

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On 5/9/2019 at 11:18 AM, Void said:

Westerly is still active in the PNW (Home port Victoria, BC) and has done a few hawaii races in the last few years. She's also had a massive refit recently; looks gorgeous and is an absolute rocketship.

 

PS She's for sale:

 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/santa-cruz-70-uldb-3250125/

Probably the best shot I've ever taken during a race (summer 2019): Westerly beating upwind towards Lasqueti from the south-southwest.

IMG_20190601_110120907.jpg

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On 2/27/2020 at 2:38 PM, Monkey said:

Is that the old Mongoose?  

Yup, Westerly is Ex-Mongoose. She is undergoing another refit currently getting ready to go to Hawaii again.

Can I ask what race the picture was taken at?

Edited by SailnGame
forgot to ask a question
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On 2/28/2020 at 9:03 PM, SailnGame said:

Yup, Westerly is Ex-Mongoose. She is undergoing another refit currently getting ready to go to Hawaii again.

Can I ask what race the picture was taken at?

That was the 2019 BMW Lasqueti Island Regatta, hosted by Schooner Cove Yacht Club. I was on the rail on Balderdash (Dash 34).

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  • 5 months later...

Having sailed on several sleds back in the 90s, I still have that love affair.  Would be very interested in one, but the boats are getting old and even a substantial rebuild may still be reliant on many of the key. weakened structural components (e.g., OEX, may she RIP). This said, is it a crazy idea to build a new one (Andrews 70, RP 68, etc.)?  Assuming the molds are available, keep the updates simple, but build with modern techniques/materials and maybe some cockpit, interior and blade improvements, etc...an opportunity from the get-go to put things in place that have been added on over the years. Would love to hear your thoughts!

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16 minutes ago, Skirtchaser said:

Having sailed on several sleds back in the 90s, I still have that love affair.  Would be very interested in one, but the boats are getting old and even a substantial rebuild may still be reliant on many of the key. weakened structural components (e.g., OEX, may she RIP). This said, is it a crazy idea to build a new one (Andrews 70, RP 68, etc.)?  Assuming the molds are available, keep the updates simple, but build with modern techniques/materials and maybe some cockpit, interior and blade improvements, etc...an opportunity from the get-go to put things in place that have been added on over the years. Would love to hear your thoughts!

As far as i know, all the molds are long gone.  The hulls were originally designed to fit the IOR 70' rule, the maximum for Transpac at the time.  New rigging and foils can only improve the speed a small amount.  With the new limits, and designs, it wouldn't make sense to build a new one.  

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1 hour ago, Skirtchaser said:

Having sailed on several sleds back in the 90s, I still have that love affair.  Would be very interested in one, but the boats are getting old and even a substantial rebuild may still be reliant on many of the key. weakened structural components (e.g., OEX, may she RIP). This said, is it a crazy idea to build a new one (Andrews 70, RP 68, etc.)?  Assuming the molds are available, keep the updates simple, but build with modern techniques/materials and maybe some cockpit, interior and blade improvements, etc...an opportunity from the get-go to put things in place that have been added on over the years. Would love to hear your thoughts!

Why not do what Merlin did? Or buy something like Rage and put on new appendages and a square top main? 

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There are some donor 70s around that, with a merlin-like refit, could go to the front of the 70 fleet pretty quickly. The old Andrews 70 Victoria is sitting on the hard in Newport and comes to mind. New mast, new sail plan, more optimized underbody, structural optimization inside to reduce weight, carbon rigging, lightweight deck hardware. You could probably take close to 1,000lbs out of a 70 and have it be a real hoot for what the 70s are good at. All the people who say you could buy/build a faster boat are technically correct but every time one tries to make it big on the west coast with something new and sexy (Cabron, Pendragon, Rio, etc.) they get beaten up on by the 70s anyways.

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2 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

There are some donor 70s around that, with a merlin-like refit, could go to the front of the 70 fleet pretty quickly. The old Andrews 70 Victoria is sitting on the hard in Newport and comes to mind. New mast, new sail plan, more optimized underbody, structural optimization inside to reduce weight, carbon rigging, lightweight deck hardware. You could probably take close to 1,000lbs out of a 70 and have it be a real hoot for what the 70s are good at. All the people who say you could buy/build a faster boat are technically correct but every time one tries to make it big on the west coast with something new and sexy (Cabron, Pendragon, Rio, etc.) they get beaten up on by the 70s anyways.

Mirage comes with additional carbon mast and t-bulb keel for $149k asking?

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1990/santa-cruz-70-2850116/

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Most of the 70's still actively racing have already changed keels, rudders, rigs, spin poles, A-sails, etc.  They are very competitive on handicap but are slower in raw speed compared to the new kids on the block.  I think it would be almost as expensive to build a new one and ask the designer to turn the volume down so that it is the comfortable E-ticket ride that the 70's are.  A new 68' sled would be wicked fast but definitely much more uncomfortable getting there.  And as jacko said it will still be hard to beat them on handicap.

What happened to OEX was really sad.  Bummer is it could happen to anyone.  The volume of large trash items in the pacific is much higher now than in the 80-90's.  Messes with the brain a bit when you are ripping along in the dark.

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1 hour ago, Skirtchaser said:

Thanks for all your thoughts.  Victoria is a good option, as is Mirage.  With a good hull/deck and bulkheads, could make a fun template while keeping with the 70 genre.

If we’re taking turbo’d sleds, Runaway is available as well.  I think it’s one of the only turbos left as OEX was lost and Pyewacket was de-turbo’d as Pegasus a few years back.

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Maybe it was Magnitude that was de-turbo'ed for Pegasus.  Details.  I think sleds, turbo or not, are cool.  And I doubt anyone who is thinking of getting one would regret it.  Seems to be a boat that mere mortals and older crews can sail well and have a blast.

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Yea, they are very cool, but too big for me now at my age. I can do nothing but steer sailing on SC70.

Hence the Olson 40. My wife or I can do anything on the Olson 40.

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18 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

If we’re taking turbo’d sleds, Runaway is available as well.  I think it’s one of the only turbos left as OEX was lost and Pyewacket was de-turbo’d as Pegasus a few years back.

Saw that. Definitely a good look. They've gone a lot of the way with what you could do with the hull. I still think that there's more to be done to that boat, particularly from a rig/rigging/hardware point of view, but it's pretty sorted on sails and such.  https://www.northropandjohnson.com/yachts-for-sale/runaway-70-denchomarine

I bet that with $250,000 and a discerning eye, you could get the boat weight down from 25,000lbs to 24,000lbs. The 20 year old Omohundro rig and rod rigging alone are probably overbuilt enough to find 30% of that. Then some modern carbon winches, a little bit of slicing and dicing of the interior, removing the aluminum roller furling headstay, going to a carbon boom, shrinking the galley down to a jetboil and freeze dried, and rebuilding the floorboards in carbon rather than wood and you're probably there.

Mirage is tough because, despite the donor keel and rig, there's a lot to be done to bring her to the front of the 70 fleet and I don't think $150,000 reflects even THAT reality. It's that much in sails just to get to the starting line of a Transpac, let alone win. 

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26 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

Saw that. Definitely a good look. They've gone a lot of the way with what you could do with the hull. I still think that there's more to be done to that boat, particularly from a rig/rigging/hardware point of view, but it's pretty sorted on sails and such.  https://www.northropandjohnson.com/yachts-for-sale/runaway-70-denchomarine

I bet that with $250,000 and a discerning eye, you could get the boat weight down from 25,000lbs to 24,000lbs. The 20 year old Omohundro rig and rod rigging alone are probably overbuilt enough to find 30% of that. Then some modern carbon winches, a little bit of slicing and dicing of the interior, removing the aluminum roller furling headstay, going to a carbon boom, shrinking the galley down to a jetboil and freeze dried, and rebuilding the floorboards in carbon rather than wood and you're probably there.

Mirage is tough because, despite the donor keel and rig, there's a lot to be done to bring her to the front of the 70 fleet and I don't think $150,000 reflects even THAT reality. It's that much in sails just to get to the starting line of a Transpac, let alone win. 

The current owners tried to cruise her in the PNW so there's an anchor roller, furler and a v-berth.  I'm assuming those things could be discarded relatively easily.  She my favorite sled and looked stunning in white, blue and black as Pegasus.  

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Since we're talking about Runaway, I do believe she was damaged in Hurricane Katrina as Decision.  She was sold at salvage and put back together and became Runaway.  Interestingly, the previous owner also owned Mirage.  The stories these boats have to tell are pretty incredible.  

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  • 3 months later...
On 5/20/2019 at 5:02 PM, sledracr said:

Yeah

There were 7 Andrews-70s built by Choate, starting with Victoria, plus a pair built in Estonia (Trader and Renegade)

There were maybe 10 NM-68s built, not all of the same design, but IIRC 6 of them (built by Choate, Geraughty or others) were fairly similar including Drumbeat, Swiftsure III (later Blue Ruby), the original Pyewacket (later Starship-I), Marishten (now Coruba), Cheval (later Denali)  and the original Magnitude.... plus Maverick, fairly similar shape but built of aluminum

Rounding out the set, there was Cheetah, a sled built by Choate to a Peterson design....

 

I think Saga was the first N/M 68. Barry Berkus from Santa Barbara (formerly owned Holmann Sunset Blvd) and two partners commissioned her. Choate built. I believe Drumbeat for the Ayres fam was also a Choater, but don't quote me. Swiftsure III, for the Frazees was Geraghty built, and by far the most successful of this generation of four. The late Keith Simmons from Dallas had the last of this gen, Prima built by Geraghty. 

The next series began with Pyewacket. These had much flare to their topsides, and relatively less form stability than the SC 70s. They would readily heel over and drag aforementioned topsides through the water. Never terribly fast. The original three N/M 68s were at least fast in light air. This gen. were very ordinary all around. Roy Disney brought John Heinemann of Hi Tech Boats out West to build her. Many rumors of more and ever more marching powder and amphetamines, etc... required to get her finished. Others were Cheval & Marishiten (Choate) and the bulletproof Maverick built of aluminum either owner built, or Geraghty (?) Pandemonium was a shorter with more sail area N/M 66 built by Westerly, and Cheetah was a Peterson 66 with similar concept built by Dennis Choate for one of SoCal's more colorful owners. Taxi Dancer was a R/P 68 built for the (?) brothers who started the (?) blue airport vans... Longy & Skip, you are not alone! That's all I got.

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Pando hull & deck was built by Choate, first attempt at vacuum. Lots of stories about shop vacs providing the suction. Hull was rather unfair. project pulled from Choate & finished by Westerly.  The hull floated about the N Pacific for quite a while after she was lost, with a few sightings by Matson captains over this period. Skip might know how many times she was seen.

Taxi built for Mitch Rouse. Possibly the best built boat of the whole group. Once she got the right rig & keel was/is quite fast.

Simmons was quite the character. I did TPac with him on Olson 40 Prima. Takes many beers to tell the full saga of that trip. Many, many, many. Drugs were involved, not by crew.

The well sailed 68's could beat the SC 70's in light air Mex races, but the longer windier TPacs the short waterlines killed them. Frazee was the only one to win a TPac with an all star crew & prep. 

Remember Mav shooting the Santa Monica pier?

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8 hours ago, longy said:

Pando hull & deck was built by Choate, first attempt at vacuum. Lots of stories about shop vacs providing the suction. Hull was rather unfair. project pulled from Choate & finished by Westerly.  The hull floated about the N Pacific for quite a while after she was lost, with a few sightings by Matson captains over this period. Skip might know how many times she was seen.

Taxi built for Mitch Rouse. Possibly the best built boat of the whole group. Once she got the right rig & keel was/is quite fast.

Simmons was quite the character. I did TPac with him on Olson 40 Prima. Takes many beers to tell the full saga of that trip. Many, many, many. Drugs were involved, not by crew.

The well sailed 68's could beat the SC 70's in light air Mex races, but the longer windier TPacs the short waterlines killed them. Frazee was the only one to win a TPac with an all star crew & prep. 

Remember Mav shooting the Santa Monica pier?

Look at you remembering names! Rouse. Yes. Many Maverick tales, Pier was a good one. I would love to sit down with you & Noodle some day and talk story. I am two weeks out from a new hip and planning to be back on the cat mid January for a chilly fast trip from Chesapeake to Abacos. 

Cheers,

Paolo

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On 7/18/2019 at 3:47 PM, silent bob said:

Somewhere in the bowels of CalYC is the Pandemonium Trophy.  Is a halfhull model of Pandemonium, upside down with the keel studs sticking out.  It was awarded at Cal Cup for “Excellence in Underachievement”!  I’ll have to head to the 49er Saloon on PCH in the LBC to shoot the shit with Frisch!  

Santa Cruz 70 - Fleet Roll Call - Page 2 - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing  Anarchy Forums

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20 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Santa Cruz 70 - Fleet Roll Call - Page 2 - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing  Anarchy Forums

Racing to Hawaii in '93 we sailed by a boat bow, covered in marine growth, sticking up vertically out of the water, that looked like the profile of that boat. Would have been floating out there quite a while, if in fact Pandemonium.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The thing about Santa Cruz 70s: they are expensive to own, very expensive to race, and yet are not all that fast anymore.

In TP2019, all the 70 sleds finished in 8 days: from 8:03 (Merlin!) to 8:19 (Mr Bill, Andrews 70), with the two "real" Santa Cruz 70s, Buona Sera and Grand Illusion, finishing in 8 days 10 and 13 hours. Pretty consistent elapsed times for Transpac.

Other boats finishing in 8 days include J/125, Rogers 46, RP45, Antrim 49, and all the varieties of TP52s.

On Ensenada Race, recent boat-for-boat competitors have included 1D48, RP44, Farr 400, Turbo 1D35, and Melges 32. All of which are inexpensively available on the used market.

So there are a LOT of newer racing monohulls that are MUCH cheaper to buy and run while also being quite fast.

And of course, no 70 sled can keep pace, upwind/reaching/downwind, with a decently sailed F31 trimaran! So there are even options for those who want to keep their boats on a trailer, and/or sail with 4 people or less.

But for sure, Santa Cruz 70s are very, very nice boats.

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On 12/15/2020 at 8:13 AM, yoyo said:

Slightly off track from the way back machine.  Does anyone know the whereabouts or status of Charley the 67' Holland design that was first to finish in 83'

Bit of crazy history I forgot about - they dropped the keel and made it back to Hawaii during the delivery.  

1985_Transpac_Program.pdf (transpacyc.com)  story is on page 14 of the pdf.

 

 

I did a delivery on Charley from Cabo to San Diego around that time.  Cool boat.  We had to stop and fix the running backstays - the mast whip from motor-sailing upwind was causing them to shred.

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23 hours ago, carcrash said:

The thing about Santa Cruz 70s: they are expensive to own, very expensive to race, and yet are not all that fast anymore.

In TP2019, all the 70 sleds finished in 8 days: from 8:03 (Merlin!) to 8:19 (Mr Bill, Andrews 70), with the two "real" Santa Cruz 70s, Buona Sera and Grand Illusion, finishing in 8 days 10 and 13 hours. Pretty consistent elapsed times for Transpac.

Other boats finishing in 8 days include J/125, Rogers 46, RP45, Antrim 49, and all the varieties of TP52s.

On Ensenada Race, recent boat-for-boat competitors have included 1D48, RP44, Farr 400, Turbo 1D35, and Melges 32. All of which are inexpensively available on the used market.

So there are a LOT of newer racing monohulls that are MUCH cheaper to buy and run while also being quite fast.

And of course, no 70 sled can keep pace, upwind/reaching/downwind, with a decently sailed F31 trimaran! So there are even options for those who want to keep their boats on a trailer, and/or sail with 4 people or less.

But for sure, Santa Cruz 70s are very, very nice boats.

honestly they started to get pushed around a bit on the mexico races when there were varying conditions (less downwind work) in the 90's by the 50 foot IMS pigs. we did a cabo race on a very heavy Andrews 56 and didnt come far from on elapsed time with Victoria who was first to finish, with much more in terms of creature comforts. design progress happens as it always does. we actually beat Victoria on elapsed time in the N2E, they started 20 min ahead and iirc we finished 12 min behind. that being said horses for courses right? in these days and times, i think i'd buy a J/125 and go play with a much cheaper slip rental, much cheaper operating cost, and much cheaper sail wardrobe. they are both pretty spartan so that would be my choice.

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Yes they did get beat up on handicap racing.  However, the 70 class has only ever been interested on how they did against their own.  They didn't care about overall handicap placing against other designs.  The design brief was to be first to finish 70 rater for Transpac not a phrf killer.  It is pretty cool that an almost 40 year old design is still a blast to sail and remains competitive.  Kudos to the owners that love them and keep them upgraded and active so we still get to enjoy seeing a handful of them going head to head.  I sure do miss seeing a dozen or more of them on the track at the same time.

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On 12/31/2020 at 5:59 AM, yoyo said:

Yes they did get beat up on handicap racing.  However, the 70 class has only ever been interested on how they did against their own.  They didn't care about overall handicap placing against other designs.  The design brief was to be first to finish 70 rater for Transpac not a phrf killer.  It is pretty cool that an almost 40 year old design is still a blast to sail and remains competitive.  Kudos to the owners that love them and keep them upgraded and active so we still get to enjoy seeing a handful of them going head to head.  I sure do miss seeing a dozen or more of them on the track at the same time.

True. Close nearly-one-design racing is fun! The 2019 ChiMac section 1 was close competition with five 70 sleds: Sagamore (NM68, 42:29)  Evolution (SC70, 43:09), Arctos (Andrews 70, 44:27), Equation (SC70, 44:42), Stripes (SC70, 45:02) spanning only 2.5 hours elapsed.

However, in that same race, same class, seven TP52s finished 40:33, 40:43, 41:59:57, 42:00:50, 42:45, 44:07, and 44:30, with only 2 hours between the first five, and less than 10 minutes between 1st and 2nd, less than one minute between 3rd and 4th, and less than 30 minutes between the last two TP52s. That is close racing... and the first four TP52s beat all the sleds by at least a half hour, and all the TP52 beating the last two 70 sleds.

As mentioned above, in the same race, same class, Denali^3, a Ker 46+ finished in 44:07, faster than all but two of the 70 sleds. And finishing a half hour ahead of the fastest sled was a Botin 56, Talisman.

So even in section 1, the 70 sleds are handicap players, not line honor competitors. Bummer.

Section 3 saw a Club Swan 42 finish in 44:56!

And to make it worse, in the same race but section 4(!!), a 1D35, Chico 2 finished in 45:52! Wow!

Transpac results are similar, this is not an outlier.

When writing lots and lots of big checks for expensive things and lots of people, one might expect to be in the big boat class. There are lots of obsolete race boats out there being given away. Just one charity that takes boat donations, Orange Coast College, has accepted Holua and Mirage as donations in the past two years.

Selling a liability is always a sketchy operation.

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On 12/31/2020 at 7:59 AM, yoyo said:

Yes they did get beat up on handicap racing.  However, the 70 class has only ever been interested on how they did against their own.  They didn't care about overall handicap placing against other designs.  The design brief was to be first to finish 70 rater for Transpac not a phrf killer.  It is pretty cool that an almost 40 year old design is still a blast to sail and remains competitive.  Kudos to the owners that love them and keep them upgraded and active so we still get to enjoy seeing a handful of them going head to head.  I sure do miss seeing a dozen or more of them on the track at the same time.

Although neither owner specifically told me, I’m pretty sure there was a lot to be said for being able to walk around down below without bending over. And of course, you could throw a lasagna in the oven to make a great mid race meal. Try that on a 52. 

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^^^This.  SC 70's are the most comfortable way to race downhill. Stand up interior, great natural lighting, comfortable bunks. Don't have to sail "on the edge" for max performance, 'cause you can pull the pole back!! No hot reaching to get downwind. Yes, other designs are faster, but look at the interior accommodations/lifestyle you give up for that.

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On 12/31/2020 at 5:59 AM, yoyo said:

Yes they did get beat up on handicap racing.  However, the 70 class has only ever been interested on how they did against their own.  They didn't care about overall handicap placing against other designs.  The design brief was to be first to finish 70 rater for Transpac not a phrf killer.  It is pretty cool that an almost 40 year old design is still a blast to sail and remains competitive.  Kudos to the owners that love them and keep them upgraded and active so we still get to enjoy seeing a handful of them going head to head.  I sure do miss seeing a dozen or more of them on the track at the same time.

right, i was just pointing out that smaller more comfy boats (at the time in the 90's) were starting to keep up with them. i always loved them growing up and getting a ride on a sled was awesome, even for a daysail.

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19 hours ago, Monkey said:

Although neither owner specifically told me, I’m pretty sure there was a lot to be said for being able to walk around down below without bending over. And of course, you could throw a lasagna in the oven to make a great mid race meal. Try that on a 52. 

For our half way party on Destroyer (TP52) we had Beef Stroganough. Yes, it was boil in a bag. But, I made it fresh just before we started.

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4 hours ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

For our half way party on Destroyer (TP52) we had Beef Stroganough. Yes, it was boil in a bag. But, I made it fresh just before we started.

You still haven’t accounted for the standing headroom and warm, dry bunks. I will agree though, well prepped boil and serve meals can be fantastic. I still remember one Mac race on a 40.7 where one of the owners worked at Sara Lee. He had the chefs in their test kitchen make up all our meals as boil and eat. They were fantastic. 

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Though our pedigree racing days are over,  we definitely have warm, dry bunks and a well-stocked galley (and bar) on Drumbeat. There's probably some merit to crew morale and being able to fight another day after a good rest and a warm meal. :-)

IMG_9850.JPG

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28 minutes ago, Drumbeat_87627 said:

Though our pedigree racing days are over,  we definitely have warm, dry bunks and a well-stocked galley (and bar) on Drumbeat. There's probably some merit to crew morale and being able to fight another day after a good rest and a warm meal. :-)

IMG_9850.JPG

* adds name to crewlist

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1 hour ago, Drumbeat_87627 said:

Though our pedigree racing days are over,  we definitely have warm, dry bunks and a well-stocked galley (and bar) on Drumbeat. There's probably some merit to crew morale and being able to fight another day after a good rest and a warm meal. :-)

IMG_9850.JPG

Did your owner used to have an SC70?  

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On 12/29/2020 at 8:42 PM, carcrash said:

The thing about Santa Cruz 70s: they are expensive to own, very expensive to race, and yet are not all that fast anymore.

In TP2019, all the 70 sleds finished in 8 days: from 8:03 (Merlin!) to 8:19 (Mr Bill, Andrews 70), with the two "real" Santa Cruz 70s, Buona Sera and Grand Illusion, finishing in 8 days 10 and 13 hours. Pretty consistent elapsed times for Transpac.

Other boats finishing in 8 days include J/125, Rogers 46, RP45, Antrim 49, and all the varieties of TP52s.

On Ensenada Race, recent boat-for-boat competitors have included 1D48, RP44, Farr 400, Turbo 1D35, and Melges 32. All of which are inexpensively available on the used market.

So there are a LOT of newer racing monohulls that are MUCH cheaper to buy and run while also being quite fast.

And of course, no 70 sled can keep pace, upwind/reaching/downwind, with a decently sailed F31 trimaran! So there are even options for those who want to keep their boats on a trailer, and/or sail with 4 people or less.

But for sure, Santa Cruz 70s are very, very nice boats.

I think there is a major distinction still between a 70 sled and newer/faster boats like TP52s that often gets overlooked. You can still conceivably race a 70 competitively with a group of friends/amatures. For a large, high performance and more modern design like a TP52, sure you can pick them up for the same cost as a 70 (maybe even a little less) but to be competitive you are now employing most (if not all) of the crew. As an owner, It really comes down to how you want to spend your money and who you want to sail with on your boat.

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