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PFD recommendation - keelboat helmsman


SF Woody Sailor

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Any recommendations on a PFD for a keel-boat skipper? Unlikely to fall over but must wear one. The inflatable belt seems to get caught on everything so I thought one of those sleek dinghy vests (Zhik et al) might be nifty. I thought I would seek the wisdom of the erudite, polite crowd here before randomly hitting "buy now" on Amazon.

I apologize as I am certain this has been asked and answered previously, but an SA search on "dinghy PFD" or "dinghy and PFD" returns hundreds of irrelevant results.

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Wear what is most comfortable for you. I have many different life jackets. The Stohlquist (can't remember the model) is probably my favorite for stituations where I might really need the jacket. Super adjustable and comfortable. But it is bulkier than the ones I use more often. I wear the Zhik most often but I also mainly sail dinghies. Not as adjustable as the Stohlquist but far less bulky. Most are not USCG approved and are listed as a flotation aid, if that matters to you. I did hear there is a new Zhik that is USCG approved. I also have an inflatable harness and use that mostly on keelboats. If it is comfortable you are more likely to wear it.

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Get a PFD rather than a buoyancy aid. The purpose is to keep you afloat and face up whether you are conscious or not. A buoyancy aid, or dinghy vest won’t do that. If you have to wear something, make it worthwhile. Get an OSR (WS Offshore Special Regs) approved one. ORC no longer manage these and World Sailing have for about 10 years or more now, so reference to ORC is erroneous. You want 150N with a built in harness attachment, also something a dinghy buoyancy aid won’t have.

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11 hours ago, Fleet5 said:

Your attitude belies someone who is trying to sell OSR equipment. I have no problem with that, it is a free country. But the American sailor needs to comply with American law

 

I have no connection with anyone selling any safety equipment. Just trying to be helpful

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11 hours ago, Fleet5 said:

Alternate Reality

Assume he was wearing a Type III PFD and his crew located him and radioed to the USCG while remaining at a safe distance away. They avoid running him over. The USCG helicopter arrives and lowers a basket for him to climb into, and they lift him to safety, Everyone lives happily ever after.

The End 

I would suggest another alternate reality. Why not just radio the MOB coordinates to the Coastguard, and continue racing, or wait and get the beers out if you want to YouTube the rescue till The End. 

Get the fuck real !

 

 

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7 hours ago, Fleet5 said:

"Get real"? The reality is that the Chicago Police had to open a death investigation. And the Medical Examiner had to make a determination about possible criminal charges. The Medical Examiner ruled it was an accidental death by drowning.

I would agree.

While the helmsman and crew of Imedi displayed a lack of professional skill they are not professionals. They are amateurs. As such, they would be covered by "Good  Samaritin" laws. They made good faith efforts to help the MOB, which were unsuccessful. Given the rocky history of the Cook County Medical Examiner's office,  It is not outside the realm of imagination to suspect, but not be able to prove, that the destruction of the inflatable PFD was no accident. 

As to mitigating factors in favor of the helmsman, there is evidence that the victim rigged the jacklines, but did not wear a harness. DUMB! 

Given the totality of the evidence, the conclusion suggested, Darwinian Selection is appropriate.

Case closed.

Throw a couple colored fonts in there and the Georgie persona will be fully realized.

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4 hours ago, Fleet5 said:

Great!You have been helpful by raising a good point. Can you buy a USCG Approved inflatable PFD?

I tried a search and found this

https://www.mustangsurvival.com/en_US/products/flotation/inflatable-pfds/hit-inflatable-pfd-MD318302.html 

"The award-winning HIT™ Inflatable PFD with Hydrostatic Inflator Technology is Mustang Survival’s best-in-safety inflatable PFD. Designed for serious users with exclusive technology,it is designed for use in severe weather and requires minimal inflator maintenance.

Features the exclusive USCG-approved Hydrostatic Inflator Technology, bright fluorescent yellow-green inflation cell, lightweight outer shell fabric, and a zippered pocket.

Research shows fluorescent yellow-green to be the most visible color in a water rescue scenario."

If you are offered an inflatable PFD, check for the USCG Approval.

 

Spend $10 more and get the harness version

https://www.mustangsurvival.com/en_US/products/flotation/inflatable-pfds/hit-inflatable-pfd-with-sailing-harness-auto-hydrostatic-MD318402.html

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I agree with you,

but mine's not an inflatable, and doesn't have any pockets and is only listed for pleasure use. 

When I'm wearing it the most common tool I'm carrying is a beer. And they're fairly neutral bouyancy.

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To actually answer the OP question... I have a dingy vest from way back that I put on when required.  It's the normal red ones you saw in the late early/late 90's.  I was Coaching then and it is worn in quite nicely, so it still works on my way too heavy 49 yo body.  We sail in pretty much protected waters,  they are cold and deep though and the wind can come up quick, so  RC is usually prudent with the flags, I digress....  To answer your question ...

At the 2017, Nationals on Dillon, I was in the H20 unintentionally for the first time ever!!! off a keel boat.  (long story short we broached in a microburst along with most of the fleet and the boat was held over for a bit.) Anyway, It worked fine, it was a bit bulky for most of the day, but not so bad with the other cold weather shit we were wearing.  SO... What I learned was that I am old.. :)  The LJ that you don't wear is not gonna do shit and wearing one when the conditions merit is a pretty good Idea.  In your situation, where it is mandated all the time, I would go with an inflatable harness since the tech is getting pretty good and just deal with the occasional snag.  I have a belt version that I had worn in the past, but try getting that over your head while dodging lifelines, sheets and anything else that is in the cockpit including other crew all while hanging onto still moving boat cause you are still skip and you are still technically driving. :) You are probably last guy in line anyway, so you aren't gonna have anyone catching you and yanking you bak on board ether.  Basically, It aint happening.  So, since it is not mandated all the time where we sail, I am sticking with the tried and true and might go to an inflatable at some point and will definitely go with that in the off chance we go to mandated LJ's.  Better tan lines right??  In my old age, maybe I am getting smart??  

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8 hours ago, Fleet5 said:

Does RRS 40 count as a regulation or SI?

US Sailing prescribes that every boat shall carry life-saving equipment conforming to government regulations that apply in the racing area.

The indicted racing area is in the USA, so the applicable government regulations are those of the USCG.

carry != wear

 

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On 5/11/2019 at 1:19 PM, SF Woody Sailor said:

Any recommendations on a PFD for a keel-boat skipper? Unlikely to fall over but must wear one. The inflatable belt seems to get caught on everything so I thought one of those sleek dinghy vests (Zhik et al) might be nifty. I thought I would seek the wisdom of the erudite, polite crowd here before randomly hitting "buy now" on Amazon.

I apologize as I am certain this has been asked and answered previously, but an SA search on "dinghy PFD" or "dinghy and PFD" returns hundreds of irrelevant results.

My 20 cents.

The older I get the more I wear one.

I have a range of options.

Musto dinghy vest for one designs.

Crewsaver yoke for day time keel boats.

Stormy Seas vest for offshore.

As Dunc said the issue is the amount of buoyancy.

Just an observation from safety at sea courses, some yokes in particular inflate very high on the neck under the chin and some people freak at this.

Secondly that type does not lift the wearer much up out of the water so mouth is in the water.

Others usually vests inflate around the chest so lift the person up out of the water a bit.

Critics say that this means the wearer is more unstable in the water.

I say bullshit which is why I go with the vest offshore. (and it has pockets for stuff)

 

 

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It was interesting in the SSSC course to see the difficulty some chaps had with a 150N jacket.They weren't that big either, say 100+kgs?

Being in full wet weathers seems to add a fair bit of weight and there were some mouths and noses uncomfortably close to the water. Does anybody use a 275N? A 150 had me riding like a cork.

I want to upgrade to a pfd with face shield, the sensation of warmth alone is awesome. 

 

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15 hours ago, Fleet5 said:

"Get real"? The reality is that the Chicago Police had to open a death investigation. And the Medical Examiner had to make a determination about possible criminal charges. The Medical Examiner ruled it was an accidental death by drowning.

I would agree.

While the helmsman and crew of Imedi displayed a lack of professional skill they are not professionals. They are amateurs. As such, they would be covered by "Good  Samaritin" laws. They made good faith efforts to help the MOB, which were unsuccessful. Given the rocky history of the Cook County Medical Examiner's office,  It is not outside the realm of imagination to suspect, but not be able to prove, that the destruction of the inflatable PFD was no accident. 

As to mitigating factors in favor of the helmsman, there is evidence that the victim rigged the jacklines, but did not wear a harness. DUMB! 

Given the totality of the evidence, the conclusion suggested, Darwinian Selection is appropriate.

Case closed.

Go fuck yourself.

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23 hours ago, Chimp too said:

No one ever intends to fall overboard! 

Yep! Don't just do this to meet the regulations. Get a decent one that might safe your life. Falling overboard is indeed unlikely, but when it happens it is likely to be bad and it is likewise likely that you need good flotation to keep your head up.

 

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7 hours ago, Fleet5 said:

Hmmm? Who would we prefer to emulate?

Bandit, which finished first!

Or Meridian X, which lost a MOB and finished DFL?

Bless your heart....

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https://www.cycracetomackinac.com/assets/1/7/25Feb19_Imedi_Incident_Report.pdf

About 10% of inflatable life vests don’t inflate. Read about it, and destroy (don’t sell or give away) your inflatables.

The USCG finds it takes substantial repeated training for someone to learn to respond properly when you accidentally fall in the drink. John Santarelli was very fit, a very good competitive swimmer. very experienced sailor, yet drowned. Fish another example. Both certainly far more fit and very likely far better and more experienced sailors than nearly anyone here.

When young, we (family of seven, racing from infancy) all wore jackets that used closed cell foam for insulation and floatation. Non USCG approved, but they actually worked, were comfortable, easy to sail in, warm, and easy to swim or float in. We always wore them. We all fell in while racing. We all survived easily.

Those jackets certainly saved lives among my family and friends.

Looking to buy new gear for the new boat. So actual experience with jackets or non-inflatable vests is what I want to hear.

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19 hours ago, shaggy said:

To actually answer the OP question... I have a dingy vest from way back that I put on when required.  It's the normal red ones you saw in the late early/late 90's.  I was Coaching then and it is worn in quite nicely, so it still works on my way too heavy 49 yo body.  We sail in pretty much protected waters,  they are cold and deep though and the wind can come up quick, so  RC is usually prudent with the flags, I digress....  To answer your question ...

At the 2017, Nationals on Dillon, I was in the H20 unintentionally for the first time ever!!! off a keel boat.  (long story short we broached in a microburst along with most of the fleet and the boat was held over for a bit.) Anyway, It worked fine, it was a bit bulky for most of the day, but not so bad with the other cold weather shit we were wearing.  SO... What I learned was that I am old.. :)  The LJ that you don't wear is not gonna do shit and wearing one when the conditions merit is a pretty good Idea.  In your situation, where it is mandated all the time, I would go with an inflatable harness since the tech is getting pretty good and just deal with the occasional snag.  I have a belt version that I had worn in the past, but try getting that over your head while dodging lifelines, sheets and anything else that is in the cockpit including other crew all while hanging onto still moving boat cause you are still skip and you are still technically driving. :) You are probably last guy in line anyway, so you aren't gonna have anyone catching you and yanking you bak on board ether.  Basically, It aint happening.  So, since it is not mandated all the time where we sail, I am sticking with the tried and true and might go to an inflatable at some point and will definitely go with that in the off chance we go to mandated LJ's.  Better tan lines right??  In my old age, maybe I am getting smart??  

Thanks for an answer to the actual question which had nothing to do with USCG or offshore regs. Here in SF wearing "adequate personal buoyancy" is a requirement in the SI's for everything other than R/C racing.

West Marine has sleek looking Zhik and Stohlquist options that would appear unlikely to foul on cam cleats, etc. unlike the inflatable belt or harness which snags on the tiller extension and everything else. They don't seem to carry Musto, but Amazon does.

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1 hour ago, carcrash said:

https://www.cycracetomackinac.com/assets/1/7/25Feb19_Imedi_Incident_Report.pdf

About 10% of inflatable life vests don’t inflate. Read about it, and destroy (don’t sell or give away) your inflatables.

The USCG finds it takes substantial repeated training for someone to learn to respond properly when you accidentally fall in the drink. John Santarelli was very fit, a very good competitive swimmer. very experienced sailor, yet drowned. Fish another example. Both certainly far more fit and very likely far better and more experienced sailors than nearly anyone here.

When young, we (family of seven, racing from infancy) all wore jackets that used closed cell foam for insulation and floatation. Non USCG approved, but they actually worked, were comfortable, easy to sail in, warm, and easy to swim or float in. We always wore them. We all fell in while racing. We all survived easily.

Those jackets certainly saved lives among my family and friends.

Looking to buy new gear for the new boat. So actual experience with jackets or non-inflatable vests is what I want to hear.

That report doesn't make me want to throw away my inflatables, it encourages me to ensure they are properly maintained.  They report a low (but non-zero!) failure rate and link most of the failures to poor maintenance.

 I think I'm unlikely to be alone in thinking that the likelihood of a failure needs to be balanced against the likelihood of a failure to wear... I fully appreciate that in your situation, you are able to ensure that all of the people on your boat are wearing appropriate life-jackets all of the time but that's not behaviour I see universally observed, especially on keelboats.

 I'm with SailMoore1, right at the top of the page- wear what's comfortable... You are balancing risks (don't expect to go in, may get caught up in gear, may not inflate etc) and the main thing is to get something you are comfortable wearing (or someday, you won't be..)... next is what you want it for: a dinghy buoyancy aid is there so you don't need to worry about swimming while you get the boat going again. An offshore lifejacket is there so that your rescuers have half a chance of recovering your body, maybe with you still alive within it, if you are really lucky.... so select what fits you & your needs.

Cheers,

              W.

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On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 2:50 PM, Fleet5 said:

You will find the official USCG guidance here

http://uscgboating.org/recreational-boaters/life-jacket-wear-wearing-your-life-jacket.php 

That is what is required in the USA to meet federal law. The USCG personnel  are law enforcement personnel. They even are authorized to have GUNS!

Your attitude belies someone who is trying to sell OSR equipment. I have no problem with that, it is a free country. But the American sailor needs to comply with American law.

BTW Did you read the Imedi report? Page 3?

"They circled again and came closer to Jon on the second attempt, this time with the engine running, but just as they got close to Jon, a wave forced the boat up and over Jon and he went under the bow from starboard to port. Imedi circled a third time, and this time they were able to stop the boat very close to Jon, but as they tossed Jon a line and he raised his arms, he sank below the water and was never seen again." 

In other words, he was swimming okay, even without flotation, until they accidently ran over him with the bow, partially drowning him. When they threw him a line, the act of raising his arms out of the water finished the job. Archimedes Law requires a constant volume to be submerged to maintain buoyancy. The arms going up means the head must go down. Blub, blub, blub

RIP Jon!

As one of our Past Commodores likes to put it, Darwinian Selection (his words, not mine).

Alternate Reality

Assume he was wearing a Type III PFD and his crew located him and radioed to the USCG while remaining at a safe distance away. They avoid running him over. The USCG helicopter arrives and lowers a basket for him to climb into, and they lift him to safety, Everyone lives happily ever after.

The End 

 

 

You sound like you might know if this is true or not.  Is it true the only difference between a European CE approved floatation device, (like the Zhik life jacket) and a PFD type III is the $65,000, (per color) fee paid to the USCG for the type III certification?  That's what I've heard, but have never verified it.

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On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 11:19 PM, SF Woody Sailor said:

Any recommendations on a PFD for a keel-boat skipper? Unlikely to fall over but must wear one. The inflatable belt seems to get caught on everything so I thought one of those sleek dinghy vests (Zhik et al) might be nifty. I thought I would seek the wisdom of the erudite, polite crowd here before randomly hitting "buy now" on Amazon.

I apologize as I am certain this has been asked and answered previously, but an SA search on "dinghy PFD" or "dinghy and PFD" returns hundreds of irrelevant results.

May have already been stated, but the skipper can and does go over more often than most expect.  I've never trusted the auto inflate jackets.  Always wear the real deal when it's gamey out.

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1 hour ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Thanks for an answer to the actual question which had nothing to do with USCG or offshore regs. Here in SF wearing "adequate personal buoyancy" is a requirement in the SI's for everything other than R/C racing.

West Marine has sleek looking Zhik and Stohlquist options that would appear unlikely to foul on cam cleats, etc. unlike the inflatable belt or harness which snags on the tiller extension and everything else. They don't seem to carry Musto, but Amazon does.

Also, If you are 20-35 ish, use whatever u want cause you are probably athletic enough to overcome whatever BS comes up.  Otherwise, go with what ever is comfortable, that you will actually wear and/or is compliant. 

On a side note, who was the guy that fell overboard, from a keel boat, when driving and didn't make it a few years back??  Klein?   Best ye heed whatever they came up with after that tragedy...  Not what a bunch of shmucks on a website come up with.  

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18 minutes ago, shaggy said:

Also, If you are 20-35 ish, use whatever u want cause you are probably athletic enough to overcome whatever BS comes up.  Otherwise, go with what ever is comfortable, that you will actually wear and/or is compliant. 

On a side note, who was the guy that fell overboard, from a keel boat, when driving and didn't make it a few years back??  Klein?   Best ye heed whatever they came up with after that tragedy...  Not what a bunch of shmucks on a website come up with.  

His name was Larry Klein, and he was the skipper of a boat called Twin Flyer in the 1994 BBS. It was a modified Hobie 33 with racks, and on Saturday the rack broke dumping almost the whole crew (including Larry) in the water. He did not make it. I was sailing with him on Twin Flyer on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, but I was the lightest person on the boat so got flicked Saturday morning because we didn't quite make weight. I don't take this stuff lightly.

Many lessons were learned. It turned out that lace-up dingy boots were a contributing factor as they could not be kicked off but instead filled with water. The episode gave birth to the K flag which an RC could fly to make wearing buoyancy mandatory. But ever since, in San Francisco, no Organizing Authority would run a race without mandatory "adequate personal flotation" in the Sailing Instructions. However, what is "adequate" depends on the conditions which here are quite predictable (no sudden squalls for example). If I am going offshore or expect sporty conditions I have a Spinlock Deckvest with crotchstraps, tethers and plenty of buoyancy. However, in a flat water beercan race or short tacking the CityFront that is overkill. A dinghy vest that ensures free movement is, in this case, more important even though 20-35ish is in the rearview mirror.

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1 minute ago, doghouse said:

That's really the most important part. Complacency is what kills.

Over the years I have rescued 5 men and a Yellow Lab who were Man Over Board (Canine Overboard?) from other boats. This experience tells me that the process of getting the guy out of the water and onboard is an overlooked challenge. But I agree, paying attention is a large part of the equation.

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Just now, SF Woody Sailor said:

Over the years I have rescued 5 men and a Yellow Lab who were Man Over Board (Canine Overboard?) from other boats. This experience tells me that the process of getting the guy out of the water and onboard is an overlooked challenge. But I agree, paying attention is a large part of the equation.

Certainly. Especially once they are half conscious and unable to help their own rescue. But when we are talking complacency, we are talking the entire picture from staying on the boat, to actually getting some one back.

I've given more talks about this than I care to think about over the past couple years, and my over arching message to everyone is to take it seriously and don't be complacent. The details are so complex and varied it's an endless process to work through and it's important to talk about them but not get bogged down in them.

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I have a couple of inflatables. A full-blown Spinlock Deckvest with crotchstraps and everything and a Crewsaver Crewfit 40. Of the 2, the Crewfit is cheaper, easier to put on and off, and more comfortable to wear but it doesn't have crotchstraps. Recent experience has shown me that crotchstraps are pretty important. Most buoyancy aides can easily slip over your head. Much worse if you happen to be unconscious. 

But the recent talks of inflatables failing to inflate and their need to be maintained has soured me to them. Look, I have enough stuff that needs to be maintained. But a buoyancy aide that costs more to service than my car... this rubs me the wrong way.

So I started testing thick foam vests. Good and bad points of the few I've worn. I don't think any of them have crotchstraps.

The vest I'm grabbing the most now is illegal, of course, in the USA. I really enjoy the Salus Coastal-Keelboat vest SL-550, made in Canada and approved by Dept of Transport Canada and conforms to CAN/CGSB-65.11-M88 (whatever that means.) It's feature are the built-in harness (2-inch-wide webbing and large D-rings) which is removable or the D-rings can be secured out of the way if not being used, draining large zippered slash pockets with the zipper protected from snagging, fleece-lined hand-warmer pockets, extra pouch for radio and/or water, that 4-sided patch for mounting stuff to, and a flexible attachment point for other stuff. This vest was discussed in Gear Anarchy. I do not have the leg straps but I see they are available (LS-550) so I'll buy some. Leg straps are a pain to put on and off, but when things get wild, I think they are very much worth the hassle. This vest is comfortable and versatile.

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On 5/12/2019 at 8:23 AM, Fleet5 said:

Great!You have been helpful by raising a good point. Can you buy a USCG Approved inflatable PFD?

I tried a search and found this

https://www.mustangsurvival.com/en_US/products/flotation/inflatable-pfds/hit-inflatable-pfd-MD318302.html 

"The award-winning HIT™ Inflatable PFD with Hydrostatic Inflator Technology is Mustang Survival’s best-in-safety inflatable PFD. Designed for serious users with exclusive technology,it is designed for use in severe weather and requires minimal inflator maintenance.

Features the exclusive USCG-approved Hydrostatic Inflator Technology, bright fluorescent yellow-green inflation cell, lightweight outer shell fabric, and a zippered pocket.

Research shows fluorescent yellow-green to be the most visible color in a water rescue scenario."

If you are offered an inflatable PFD, check for the USCG Approval.

 Inflatables must be worn to meet USCG requirements. A regular PFD has to readily available. Ive been boarded and got chewed on big time for that. The were right on the quarterberth and we had nothing aboard for the 2 of exccept the inflatables. We were ordered to wear them, warned we could be ticketed. 

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5 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

But the recent talks of inflatables failing to inflate and their need to be maintained has soured me to them. Look, I have enough stuff that needs to be maintained. But a buoyancy aide that costs more to service than my car... this rubs me the wrong way.

DIY maintenance is easy.

Inflate and let sit overnight to ensure no leaks. Done.

Do this once a year. Costs you a replacement cartridge (plus matching indicator tab).

 

Making it mandatory to have this done by an authorised service centre is ridiculous.

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6 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

I have a couple of inflatables. A full-blown Spinlock Deckvest with crotchstraps and everything and a Crewsaver Crewfit 40. Of the 2, the Crewfit is cheaper, easier to put on and off, and more comfortable to wear but it doesn't have crotchstraps. Recent experience has shown me that crotchstraps are pretty important. Most buoyancy aides can easily slip over your head. Much worse if you happen to be unconscious. 

But the recent talks of inflatables failing to inflate and their need to be maintained has soured me to them. Look, I have enough stuff that needs to be maintained. But a buoyancy aide that costs more to service than my car... this rubs me the wrong way.

So I started testing thick foam vests. Good and bad points of the few I've worn. I don't think any of them have crotchstraps.

The vest I'm grabbing the most now is illegal, of course, in the USA. I really enjoy the Salus Coastal-Keelboat vest SL-550, made in Canada and approved by Dept of Transport Canada and conforms to CAN/CGSB-65.11-M88 (whatever that means.) It's feature are the built-in harness (2-inch-wide webbing and large D-rings) which is removable or the D-rings can be secured out of the way if not being used, draining large zippered slash pockets with the zipper protected from snagging, fleece-lined hand-warmer pockets, extra pouch for radio and/or water, that 4-sided patch for mounting stuff to, and a flexible attachment point for other stuff. This vest was discussed in Gear Anarchy. I do not have the leg straps but I see they are available (LS-550) so I'll buy some. Leg straps are a pain to put on and off, but when things get wild, I think they are very much worth the hassle. This vest is comfortable and versatile.

What kind of car are you driving?

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My 2 cents, I wouldn't wear an inflatable. Too many "ifs" . Works great if maintained correctly, keeps you afloat if it inflates, can't swim or maneuver that well if inflated.

I wear a mustang commercial vest with mesh shoulders and pockets. Whistle in the pocket always. Comfortable back when leaning against the life lines. Has not impeded any motion or activity and I never worry about jumping in the water after a sail at anchor to see how it keeps me afloat. no effort at all to float upright , beer in hand.

I second the Salus coastal keelboat, that's on my short list regardless of USCG approval. I have enough devices on the boat to pass any inspection. Which BTW an inflatable doesn't pass inspection unless it's being worn.

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Among other pfds, I carry 4 adult size Mustang survival jackets(w flotation)that have the neoprene apron/crotch straps built into them that are meant to prolong survival time in cold water. If it starts getting sporty I’ll throw one on even just to stay warm. This habit means I’m throwing on a life jack instead of just a foulie(in an imperfect world)

For helming, with all lines led to the cockpit, I don’t really find them that bulky(the demographic here debating inflatables might disagree).

Keeping a couple of spares handy(but out of the way)in the cockpit is also not a bad idea. If someone goes over you want to throw anything you can as fast as possible.

Throwing a big bright orange survival jacket(over and above a locator buoy or horseshoe)that the swimmer might get to seems not a bad option.

If you sail on cold water, it might be something to consider.

(...and yeah a tough sell if it’s super hot and the water is still  cold...I don’t wear them in the dead of summer..even though post storm churned waters can be cold as well...the only rock solid answer is don’t fall in)

 

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2 hours ago, jfdubu said:

 I have enough devices on the boat to pass any inspection. Which BTW an inflatable doesn't pass inspection unless it's being worn.

This.

I don't really understand all the attention in this thread to USCG compliance. I have, in my lazarette, a dozen old fashioned orange USCG approved PFD's still in their original shrink wrap so they don't mildew. They were cheap and weigh nothing. That will get me past any USCG inspection, but they play no role whatsoever in safety as there is no scenario in which they will be worn.

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My wife and kids got me the new Mustang Khimera  to replace my inflateable after Imedi.  My kids have been junior sailors racing for the past 4-5 years and from there perspective their vest always floats so whats wrong with that.  

Sadly the Khimera doesn't make the grade for the Chi Mac.  I think that is silly.

I wonder how many people have drown falling off boats with life jackets on that had less buoyancy than required by OSRs.

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Auto inflating PFD with harness.  I think the newer ones are all hydrostatic actuated.  Before buying from Amazon, go to a marine store that has a variety and try on several to find one most comfortable for you.  Get extra CO2 cylinders.  Make sure it fits, put it on and jump in a pool.  Consider crotch straps; you probably won't slip out but I hear they help to keep your head up out of the water.  Wear it; CG doesn't count it unless it's being worn.

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1 hour ago, Fleet5 said:

Did you all read the news?

One of the people who has volunteered to talk to the Coast Guard about the Dauphin Island report is someone better known on SA as being the Past President of U S Ailing, Jim Capron.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it. 

Eat a dick you useless cunt.

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9 hours ago, Fleet5 said:

Tsk, Tsk, such nasty language.

Offended by being called an amateur? Well, do you have a USCG 100 ton Master's license?

I don't remember, do you have to be an American citizen to get one? Hey, if the USCG thinks you did a terrible job by running over your MOB, maybe they can ask ICE to deport you if you are not an American citizen. Then they avoid any worries about Seaman's Manslaughter charges.  A win-win!

Careful.  I know a couple of guys carrying their 100 ton cert who have no business having one. Book smarts is one thing.  Boat sense is another... All I'm saying is the 100 tonner ain't the holy grail.

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