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Corsair F28 Mast Question


Hawaiian Ryan

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I am in the market for a Corsair F28 but have a dilemma for which I am hoping there is a workable solution.  I live on a marina and am excited to be able to park the boat on my own dock, however, there are two bridges that I'd have to pass with the mast down to get in and out of the marina to my house.  Is there an electric or manual winch that can be fashion so that the mast of the F28 can be raised and lowered without being on the trailer?  I can beach the boat and be able to stand in front of it to raise and lower the mast so it does not have to be done while on the water.  I am just wondering if any of you have encountered that issue and found a workable solution.  Thanks in advance for your help!

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Haven't ever owned an F28, but what you are looking for can be done with an F242; so it should be able to be done in an F28.  Just hook up the gyn pole and mast raising gear.  Put a block on a line to the forestay chainplate (you might also be able to use the bow eye),  Attach the screacher halyard to a line through that block back to the cabin top winch.  Get tension (a few turns on the winch) and release the forestay.  Then belay the line as the mast lowers.  Probably want the rear mast rest installed so you can lower it to rest  

This may not work if an F28 doesn't have a gyn pole like some Corsairs...but most do.  

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If you get no joy try asking your question on Ian Farriers forum (io groups/ftc).  He'd regularly answer questions there and its all archived.  As far as I know its the most active Corsair/Farrier forum out there, maybe with the highest concentration of owners, all willing to give advice.  I, and many, raise and lower our fboat masts in the water using a stout turning block on the forward chainplate with a line through it from the spin halyard back to a cabin top winch.  I'm sure the process is described on the Farrier Marine website.  Spend some hours perusing the site, it is chock full of relevant information.  There are a couple very experienced Corsair/farrier owners in Hawaii, probably happy to help you out, if that is where you are.  Go to the farrier forum to find them.  Good luck.

 

I see Thom answered first.  I have an F31 and did have an F28 and they can both be done as Thom describes.  Done it many times.  Definitely go to the sites I linked above.

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Eric and Thom, thank you so much for your quick and detailed responses!  I will also check out the Farrier website for additional info.  Thanks again!

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You are welcome.  There's two websites I linked.  Check them both out.  Farrier Marine which is/was Farrier's business and is chock full of info from the man himself.  The business is still  producing the great F22.  The second is the io group which was started by him and is still active.  It is a standard forum where folks ask questions like yours.

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On the Reynolds 33, which has a much heavier, longer mast, we go under a bridge on every sail.  Sidestays rigged, mainsheet rerouted and put on a large winch, mast goes down forward.  Very impressive loads and potential for horrible injuries but it's been done thousands of times without too much drama...With a well thought out system it should be fairly easy on an f-boat.  But I might guess that your workload and money spent might make trailer launching about as quick and easy and much cheaper.  I've had my little tri on a dock for a year now and I generally dislike it as compared to mast up dry sailing.  

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Mundt, thanks for checking in on this!  What do you dislike about having your tri on your dock?  Is it keeping the bottom clean throughout the year or the hassle of raising and lowering  the mast every time you take it out to sea?

There really isn't a great option here in Honolulu for keeping the boat on the trailer.  No where to park it at my home and the local boat parking yard is about $250/mo.  Even if I pull it out and trailer it every time, I'd still have to drop the mast to get past the City light poles on the way to the boat parking area.

Was thinking of installing one of those Air Dock systems to keep the boat out of the water while sitting at the dock.  My biggest concern was getting it in and out of the marina due to the bridges but now I know there is a solution for that :-)

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My tri is on an end tie.  I don't have to lower my mast, that's only when I sail on my buddy's r33.  The end tie sucks because the boat takes a constant beating from wind and wakes as well as the growth. Air dock on an inside dock is certainly the way to go.  You'll still be doing some work to go in and out but an f-28 in Hawaii would be worth some sweat. 

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You are right about that, it will definitely be worth the sweat!  The marina our dock is locked on is pretty sheltered from the weather so the biggest hurdle is just raising and dropping the mast each time we take her out. 

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40 minutes ago, Hawaiian Ryan said:

You are right about that, it will definitely be worth the sweat!  The marina our dock is locked on is pretty sheltered from the weather so the biggest hurdle is just raising and dropping the mast each time we take her out. 

Well, bottom paint and scraping the bottom weekly is PITA.  Of course you can pay to have that done.  OR like you said before, an airdock or something like it.  Cover the tramps if you can, that sun will shorten their life by half or more...yadda yadda....you'll figure it out.  I reminisce about my years there...but I think I'm just missing being 28 years old.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I race on a 28R and I think you could do this. We use the bow roller and trailer winch, but I think you could rig it for use on the water. A local 33 we race against does it, but I've not watched closely.

I think one of your biggest problems would be the extra length the mast will take up while on deck in the slip.... That and keeping all the rigging straight between sails.

Randy Smyth keeps his 25c on a hoist behind his house.... Trying to remember is it was a hydrohoist or a sling/cable setup... 

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I cant see why you dont keep it at the dock with rigged to drop ( but with forestay pin in) then just lower the mast via the spin halyard tied to the tackline via the spin tack block on the pole back to a winch, then winch it back up and put the forestay pin back in etc on the fly?
Done it a few times, 24, 28 and 31

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Having owned 6 F boats I have been trying not to jump in and appear patronizing but here goes.

The F28R with the carbon mast is your best option BUT

- Each time you raise and lower you will have to strip out the halyards from lower turning blocks and wrap them around the mast base to form a lock off for the TWO halyards you will want locked.

- Roller furled boom is the best option for handling the sail/boom package. Boomless would arguably even be better.

- Tie bowlines at the raising end of both jib and screacher or screacher and kite if you are going to leave the jib furler on. IMHO the jib furler would be a deal breaker if you pursue this mode of sailing. It doubles the time my crew and I have done the mast raising etc and DOUBLES the chance of any serious clusterfock. Don't trust snapshackles or winch hooks.

- Tie a bowline to the raising rope and use the strongest pulley and dynex connection around the stem of the boat for raising. I prefer trailer raising of mast for a number of reasons, main  one being the geometry of deflecting the raising rope 45 degrees whereas the water raisng method deflects through 135 degrees approximately.

- Always stern or nose into the wind. 

For any of these boats above F24/Sprint  IMHO, hardstand with mast up is the only way to go, but if you get it sorted I am coming over for a sail!!

Peter H

TT720, F24, F27, F22, F28R, Weta, F31R (reads much better than my academic record!!)

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Sailabout.  Are you saying to do this with the raising line lead thru the spinnaker tack block at the end of the bow sprit?   (vs thru a heavy duty block on the bow chain plate).   On the aluminum mast F31 especially, I'd be worried about the tack line strength, block fixture to the tip of the sprit and the geometry of the sprit hold down line to the bow eye (do the newer models with retracting sprits even have the bow eye line?).  I'm not confident all that is strong enough to lower/raise the heavy mast.  But I don't know. 

Also, maybe I'm not getting it but, you don't mention using the gin pole to do this.  I suppose you could do that if you only lower to ~45º to get under the OP's bridges but yikes that seems risky and its pretty unstable athwart ships if a big wake comes along.  That raising line is so stressed and stretchy at that extreme angle so the mast can bounce around a lot.  Its always a point where I hurry thru as fast as possible but as smoothly and consistently as possible too, till the mast is on the stern support (or fully raised).

Thanks for clarifying.

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Thank you for the video teamvmg, the visual is quite helpful! 

Plywoodboy, we haven't purchased the boat just yet.  Wanted to make sure to check this piece off the list cause no sense buying one if we cannot get it to our dock ;-)  We have a good size 30' dock but due to the proximity of other docks near us, we'll have to pull the mast all the way forward so it doesn't get bumped by any other nearby boats on our marina. If you can imagine it, we have side-tie docks along the marina and the boats are basically parallel parked on each residence's dock.  There's only about 8' of separation between my dock and the one to the right and left.

Will definitely post pics and etc once we get the boat purchased and docked.  I imagine this is the hard part though as it will likely take several months to find the right one, survey it, purchase and ship it to Hawaii (been looking here for over 18 months and slim pickens for a used Corsair and the new ones are way out of our budget).

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1 hour ago, Hawaiian Ryan said:

Will definitely post pics and etc once we get the boat purchased and docked.  I imagine this is the hard part though as it will likely take several months to find the right one, survey it, purchase and ship it to Hawaii (been looking here for over 18 months and slim pickens for a used Corsair and the new ones are way out of our budget).

Since you don't need the trailer, why not have someone sail it to you rather than ship.  Granted, an F28 isn't considered an ocean going boat, but I know F27s have sailed from San Francisco to Hawaii.  Cost to have someone sail and pay for their return air flight ought to be similar to freight cost.  Just a thot.

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20 hours ago, plywoodboy said:

Having owned 6 F boats I have been trying not to jump in and appear patronizing but here goes.

The F28R with the carbon mast is your best option BUT

- Each time you raise and lower you will have to strip out the halyards from lower turning blocks and wrap them around the mast base to form a lock off for the TWO halyards you will want locked.

- Roller furled boom is the best option for handling the sail/boom package. Boomless would arguably even be better.

- Tie bowlines at the raising end of both jib and screacher or screacher and kite if you are going to leave the jib furler on. IMHO the jib furler would be a deal breaker if you pursue this mode of sailing. It doubles the time my crew and I have done the mast raising etc and DOUBLES the chance of any serious clusterfock. Don't trust snapshackles or winch hooks.

- Tie a bowline to the raising rope and use the strongest pulley and dynex connection around the stem of the boat for raising. I prefer trailer raising of mast for a number of reasons, main  one being the geometry of deflecting the raising rope 45 degrees whereas the water raisng method deflects through 135 degrees approximately.

- Always stern or nose into the wind. 

For any of these boats above F24/Sprint  IMHO, hardstand with mast up is the only way to go, but if you get it sorted I am coming over for a sail!!

Peter H

TT720, F24, F27, F22, F28R, Weta, F31R (reads much better than my academic record!!)

I own a 28R.  Peter's advice above is great.

I would just add.. 1) the boom with rolled mainsail on the 28(r) is heavy and really needs 2 people to move it around and 2) you could leave the mast in the bracket with the hinge pin in to avoid stripping out the halyards.. this will require the mast to hang out back of the boat by 10-15ft.

It would be easier to re-raise the mast at the dock rather than strip halyards and shuffle the mast to the forward pulpit cradle. 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, eric1207 said:

Sailabout.  Are you saying to do this with the raising line lead thru the spinnaker tack block at the end of the bow sprit?   (vs thru a heavy duty block on the bow chain plate).   On the aluminum mast F31 especially, I'd be worried about the tack line strength, block fixture to the tip of the sprit and the geometry of the sprit hold down line to the bow eye (do the newer models with retracting sprits even have the bow eye line?).  I'm not confident all that is strong enough to lower/raise the heavy mast.  But I don't know. 

Also, maybe I'm not getting it but, you don't mention using the gin pole to do this.  I suppose you could do that if you only lower to ~45º to get under the OP's bridges but yikes that seems risky and its pretty unstable athwart ships if a big wake comes along.  That raising line is so stressed and stretchy at that extreme angle so the mast can bounce around a lot.  Its always a point where I hurry thru as fast as possible but as smoothly and consistently as possible too, till the mast is on the stern support (or fully raised).

Thanks for clarifying.

Just to be clear I am talking Corsairs not F boats as the poster said Corsair 28

Yes with all the gear, side cable supports, mast base gear and the jin pole.
I would leave it at the dock mast up then just lower to clear the bridges and grind it back up.

The further forward the mast hoist line the better the angle the less the load.

You grind the spin tack line with bowlines as plywoodboy says

I also add a safety line through the tack block and around the pole in case it explodes,

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On 5/17/2019 at 9:25 PM, Hawaiian Ryan said:

I am in the market for a Corsair F28 but have a dilemma for which I am hoping there is a workable solution.  I live on a marina and am excited to be able to park the boat on my own dock, however, there are two bridges that I'd have to pass with the mast down to get in and out of the marina to my house.  Is there an electric or manual winch that can be fashion so that the mast of the F28 can be raised and lowered without being on the trailer?  I can beach the boat and be able to stand in front of it to raise and lower the mast so it does not have to be done while on the water.  I am just wondering if any of you have encountered that issue and found a workable solution.  Thanks in advance for your help!

Have owned Corsairs for the past ~20 years.  Love them.  have raised and lowered my own mast.  Both on and off the water.  Post #15 has it right.  Would only add that its not something I would want to do each time I went sailing. 

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On 5/21/2019 at 4:28 AM, Wess said:

Have owned Corsairs for the past ~20 years.  Love them.  have raised and lowered my own mast.  Both on and off the water.  Post #15 has it right.  Would only add that its not something I would want to do each time I went sailing. 

Anyone who trailer sails does this each time.  No hu-hu.  I think I'm over 300 mast raisings and lowerings and only dropped the mast a handful of times (which is why I prefer aluminum to carbon masts...can repair aluminum).  The drops were usually operator error although one or two were gear failure.

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Seems like a rather expensive platform to experiment with that kite.  Though maybe its put together without "drilling any holes in the boat" and can be disassembled without harm to the original equipment.  Many R2AK racers do this to a greater or lessor extent.

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Couple things to consider when doing the lowering operation the first time...winches have to have the line fed from below to work properly without getting tangles-feeding the line through the jib cars is probably a good thing when using the cabin top winch.   The line you are belaying has to be long enough to go through the block and allow the mast to fall back to the rest (first time I tried it I did not have enough line, so I had to release some more halyard which was tricky while still holding onto the belaying line).  Belaying sounds easy, but there's really not a lot of friction with wraps around the winch and each release lowers the mast more than you expect.  Once you start, you have to be perfect the first time in capturing the line in the gyn pole "Y".   If I was going to do this every time, I'd figure out a winch with a brake-maybe mounted and locked in the winch handle star instead of just belaying around the winch.   You can use the forestay (furled jib and furler) to lower instead of the screach/spin halyard (little trickier to pin/unpin the forestay though).

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I did this alot in the local harbor to duck a bridge on PCH in huntington beach, no problem except I had to fold and unfold the boat.  Not needed on F28 with ginpole so should be easy.  My 31 uses a gin pole and is very easy to duck bridges by lowering and then raising mast.  I use a Milwakee 90degree drill with a chuck which fits in the winch and it becomes a powered winch which means even my wife can raise the mast!!!  The bit part is on ebay its aluminum its awesome get the high voltage lithium rechargable unit from Milwaukee its very powerful.

Steve

F9A Malolo

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13 hours ago, Hawaiian Ryan said:

That's a great idea with the drill Steve, thank you for that post!

Had one on a Newick 50 and didn't appreciate it enough so one day, we did it by hand.  Sucked.  

I had an F27 and never relaxed during mast raising and others have described the issues better than me.  Don't be complacent, I always used two halyards and breathed a sigh of relief when it was up or down.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/22/2019 at 1:26 PM, MultiThom said:

Anyone who trailer sails does this each time.  No hu-hu.  I think I'm over 300 mast raisings and lowerings and only dropped the mast a handful of times (which is why I prefer aluminum to carbon masts...can repair aluminum).  The drops were usually operator error although one or two were gear failure.

Wait, what? There's a 1% failure rate for dropping the mast while raising? That seems *huge* for a 100lb object crashing from 20 feet up. I raise/lower the mast on my F-27 several times a year, and am always terrified of a crewmember being struck in the event of a drop.

Could you go into some more detail about the failure mode and mechanism you observed? 

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1 hour ago, kubark42 said:

Wait, what? There's a 1% failure rate for dropping the mast while raising? That seems *huge* for a 100lb object crashing from 20 feet up. I raise/lower the mast on my F-27 several times a year, and am always terrified of a crewmember being struck in the event of a drop.

Could you go into some more detail about the failure mode and mechanism you observed? 

2 were missing the gyn pole Y with the halyard on the way down (operator error), 2 were gyn pole slipping off the pivot at the mast base (aluminum bends-replaced the aluminum gyn pole with steel and never had a problem again), 1 was baby stay wire breaking (replaced wire with dyneema).  One was new shrouds that were made for an F28 instead of an F24...mast crashed forward onto my truck....that made me make my own shrouds from then on.

And the crashes weren't from 20 feet up (except that last one), usually the breakage occurs at the most stress point, about 6 feet off the mast rest.

My boat was one of the early F242s.  It had some engineering issues in the raising gear design.  I suspect it is more reliable now.  It is good to be terrified of a mast striking someone...have crew on foredeck or off the boat in front.  

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4 hours ago, teamvmg said:

Other way round surely?

No, can pound out dents in aluminum or cut out bad sections and sleeve.  What would dent aluminum would shatter carbon and I don't have an autoclave 30 feet long, do you?

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While I hope I never have to repair my carbon mast I could if I needed to. 

I would not need a 30ft long autoclave in fact even if I had one I wouldn't use it to repair the mast.

It would be handy to have  a vacuum pump and maybe a compressor depending on the method I chose.  

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Well Gentlemen, we bought the F28 and are super excited to receive it next month!!  We're having it shipped over to us from the West Coast.  Cost was pretty reasonable for shipping at $7k for boat and trailer. 

Going to be a bit stressful the first time we put that mast up on the water but looking forward to the challenge and getting out in these awesome Hawaiian waters.  Will send you all some pics once we get her all setup and launched :-) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Mast up and down on water is easier than on trailer with the width (if water flat).  We did it seasonally, not daily.        After 8 years we got tired of folding the boat for the air dock and changed houses to fit the boating.    

 

How sheltered is is the water past the bridges?  If protected and calm then it’s quite easy   

(pics of old canal where boat on air dock folded and more recent place with custom lift.   More easy is more better).

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18 hours ago, Statler said:

How sheltered is is the water past the bridges?  If protected and calm then it’s quite easy    

 

Water just past the bridges is in a bay and is pretty calm.  The area is about 5ft deep and we'll drop anchor to raise the mast then motor out of the boat channel :-)

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On 6/27/2019 at 1:01 PM, eric1207 said:

Statler, changing houses to fit the boating is an excellent philosophy.

A house is just a boat so poorly constructed and run aground so hard it is pointless to try and refloat it.

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On 6/13/2019 at 2:31 PM, Hawaiian Ryan said:

Well Gentlemen, we bought the F28 and are super excited to receive it next month!!  We're having it shipped over to us from the West Coast.  Cost was pretty reasonable for shipping at $7k for boat and trailer. 

Going to be a bit stressful the first time we put that mast up on the water but looking forward to the challenge and getting out in these awesome Hawaiian waters.  Will send you all some pics once we get her all setup and launched :-) 

Congrats!

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