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Almost Half of U.S. Families Can't Afford Basics Like Rent and Food


badlatitude

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2 hours ago, billy backstay said:
2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

@B.J. Porter, I see you’ve completely ignored this response to you,  I will assume by your silence that you agree with me.  

 

He's 12 hours difference in time zones, no?

Yes, but it was a stupid question.

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32 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:
36 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

Your link doesn't give methodology of the study or what "child care" expenses it covers.  "Child care" and "child day care" may not be the same.  When a study doesn't spell out what it is talking about I become sceptical.  The numbers you are throwing out immediately raise red flags.

I'd hate to see you become sceptical (sic), sounds scary.  It's clear from your posts why you never incurred a student loan.  

Or raised a child.

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

He never had one to start with.

Of course.  

No worries, I've got three or four laying around unused, will be glad to fix you up a loaner.

-DSK

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36 minutes ago, billy backstay said:
1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

You are a landlord who owns rental properties if I am to believe your prior posts.

You have wealth.  You are getting income (and more wealth) from the very folks you claim are exploited because they can't afford to buy a house. 

What is your problem?  Not enough?

 

My having the foresight to start investing for retirement income, in rental condos, at age 28, has not a damn thing to do with the poor condition in our Country, compared to MANY other first world countries.  That is what this thread is about, nothing else.  In no way shape or manner am I exploiting anyone.  I provide low cost housing of properties that are near the bottom level of available local housing, that many people live in, because for one reason or another they are unable to, or CHOOSE not to own their primary residence.  Please stick to the topic at hand!

The problem is that Saorsa and his elk do not grasp the concept of empathy.

They have made it emphatically clear that their underlying philosophy of life and politics is "Fuck you, I've got mine."

They can not grasp how someone that has planned ahead, done well and achieved reasonable financial security can possibly give one flying fuck about anyone else who may be struggling. They simply do not care.

Their views as presented here repeated are that the poor deserve their lot, and are they are there 100% due to poor life choices and or laziness. There is no room in that worldview for compassion for people who made mistakes out of ignorance, inexperience or just human nature. There is no room in that worldview to account for an economy and a social structure that stacks the deck against those already poor and those born into poverty. There is no room in that worldview for anything but work, drudgery and misery because you deserve it for being poor.

And in their view, unless Sally Struthers is walking through your village asking for money for your fly covered, naked children with distended bellies who will die from starvation in the next month unless they are fed, you aren't actually poor.

If you have a refrigerator, a cell phone, a microwave or a car, you aren't actually poor. Never mind those items are a basic standard of living to get by in 21st century America. It's irrelevant that you need a cell phone, some sort of basic internet and transportation to find and keep a decent job. To their worldview, these are needless fripperies.

And never mind if, in your miserable (not poor though) minimum wage, two job existence you want something as mildly pleasurable as TV to watch the few hours you aren't entitled to that. If you spend on cable, you aren't poor. Of course, if you aren't allowed to pay for a TV or anything discretionary like smokes or booze, what are you going to do in your free time? Screw? Can't do that either, might produce more kids.

 

The bottom line is there is a certain segment of our society, no matter how many hosannas they sing, who will NEVER embrace the words "blessed be the poor" or "do unto the least of you as you would do unto me." Nope, it's "fuck the poor, they deserve it" because they can not dig themselves out of a hole these judgemental twats never had a chance to fall into.

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8 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:
12 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Or raised a child.

You know I raised a kid.  Valedictorian, West Point, Brown Medical School.   

I have no idea who the fuck you are, and I don't care. That you were a useless twat was evident from the first or second post of yours I noticed, so I put you on ignore.

I saw this post ONLY because of the forum bug that shows posts that come in while you're putting your own post up.

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9 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:
14 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

I have no idea who the fuck you are, and I don't care. That you were a useless twat was evident from the first or second post of yours I noticed, so I put you on ignore.

I saw this post ONLY because of the forum bug that shows posts that come in while you're putting your own post up.

Good you didn't  see all my responses to your posts.

Only if someone quotes them, or the board flashes them at me momentarily for that bug. That's more than enough to know you're a humongous asshole with absolutely fuck-all to say of value, no matter what returning sock you may be.

In the rare circumstance like this one I've adressed you directly and know you are responding to me, I'll look. Count how many direct responses you've had from me.

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10 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

And shits like you don't have any brains at all.  I do feel sorry for you but that doesn't mean I'm going to pay off your college debt or pay for all of you day care expenses.  After all, I have a lifestyle to support.

At least they don't water me twice a week as they do for you.

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12 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I'm curious BJ... what exactly (details please) do those countries do differently and who are they?  

Jeezuss you are ignorant.

Try virtually every other advanced nation.

The utter and total ignorance of anything outside the USA (and most of what is inside the USA) of you American right wingers is something to behold.

A perfect example of Dunning Kruger.

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

The problem is that Saorsa and his elk do not grasp the concept of empathy.

They have made it emphatically clear that their underlying philosophy of life and politics is "Fuck you, I've got mine."

They can not grasp how someone that has planned ahead, done well and achieved reasonable financial security can possibly give one flying fuck about anyone else who may be struggling. They simply do not care.

Their views as presented here repeated are that the poor deserve their lot, and are they are there 100% due to poor life choices and or laziness. There is no room in that worldview for compassion for people who made mistakes out of ignorance, inexperience or just human nature. There is no room in that worldview to account for an economy and a social structure that stacks the deck against those already poor and those born into poverty. There is no room in that worldview for anything but work, drudgery and misery because you deserve it for being poor.

And in their view, unless Sally Struthers is walking through your village asking for money for your fly covered, naked children with distended bellies who will die from starvation in the next month unless they are fed, you aren't actually poor.

If you have a refrigerator, a cell phone, a microwave or a car, you aren't actually poor. Never mind those items are a basic standard of living to get by in 21st century America. It's irrelevant that you need a cell phone, some sort of basic internet and transportation to find and keep a decent job. To their worldview, these are needless fripperies.

And never mind if, in your miserable (not poor though) minimum wage, two job existence you want something as mildly pleasurable as TV to watch the few hours you aren't entitled to that. If you spend on cable, you aren't poor. Of course, if you aren't allowed to pay for a TV or anything discretionary like smokes or booze, what are you going to do in your free time? Screw? Can't do that either, might produce more kids.

 

The bottom line is there is a certain segment of our society, no matter how many hosannas they sing, who will NEVER embrace the words "blessed be the poor" or "do unto the least of you as you would do unto me." Nope, it's "fuck the poor, they deserve it" because they can not dig themselves out of a hole these judgemental twats never had a chance to fall into.

Bullshit.  You are spending a lot of your expat, muni funded life, criticizing places you seem to hate.

I have plenty of empathy for the people I meet and recognize their needs.  Somehow I have a lot less for folks who poormouth and claim they can't accomplish things becuase of 'the man', 'the system', 'the damn republicans' or whatever.

I view people as individuals with individual circumstances.  If I feel that someone is trying and can do better I will help them.  If they've given up hope I will encourage them.  Beyond that there is little that can be done. 

There are certainly those who do need help but, you don't just draw a line somewhere in the middle of 350 million people and say "you are poor and you are rich' based on income.  That is not a legitimate measure.  It is far, far too broad.

(p.s.  I don't know if your life is actually funded by municipal bonds but you seem to have spent some time here in the past proclaiming your legal tax avoidance measures.  The style around here is centered on personal attacks as your post indicates so I'll get that little dig in)

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2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

My having the foresight to start investing for retirement income, in rental condos, at age 28, has not a damn thing to do with the poor condition in our Country, compared to MANY other first world countries.  That is what this thread is about, nothing else.  In no way shape or manner am I exploiting anyone.  I provide low cost housing of properties that are near the bottom level of available local housing, that many people live in, because for one reason or another they are unable to, or CHOOSE not to own their primary residence.  Please stick to the topic at hand!

Neither did mine.  But I invested in single family homes in relatively new developments where I could negotiate a good deal buying models and leasing them back until the devolpment was finished and then I would rent they out to individuals for a while.  I didn't want to be a slumlord.  I did do one 8A rental but that was another story.

I don't think the country is in poor condition.  I think we have a lot of people with unrealistic impressions of themselves.

It's hard when you finally discover that life isn't filled with participation trophies.

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3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

No, this thread was started on the basis of a national statistic which is stated in the title.  If you want to argue state by state then I suggest that you can figure out whether you can find housing and food (also the OPs premise) in NC for 20K per year.  I know I could as I could in Charlotte County FL.

But to show you why the this national statistic as a "fact" is silly, ponder the national implications of all the children in Lake Woebegone being above average.

The US average is $28,555 a year. - The Median household income of a Charlotte County resident is $44,265 a year.

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The reality is that real life middle class wages, in comparison to GDP, in comparison to inflation, has been dramatically cut over the past 40 years. By a lot. The middle class is getting squeezed, many of them below the poverty line, and a few lucky ones up to the 1%. This is unsustainable. What has historically made the US so financially successful since WWII, is that the middle class had a lot of expendable income to buy lots of consumer goods. This consumer engine is being whittled away, replaced by the financially stressed. Even rich people need consumers to stay rich, but they are all working against their own best interest. Corporate influence in politics and lawmaking has become all about the most profit right now, damn the consequences. Study some history and you'll see that it won't last. It never does.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Jeezuss you are ignorant.

Try virtually every other advanced nation.

The utter and total ignorance of anything outside the USA (and most of what is inside the USA) of you American right wingers is something to behold.

A perfect example of Dunning Kruger.

It's surprising because he's traveled a lot. But I'm not sure he gets out of his cocoon where he is much.

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1 minute ago, Nice! said:

The reality is that real life middle class wages, in comparison to GDP, in comparison to inflation, has been dramatically cut over the past 40 years. By a lot. The middle class is getting squeezed, many of them below the poverty line, and a few lucky ones up to the 1%. This is unsustainable. What has historically made the US so financially successful since WWII, is that the middle class had a lot of expendable income to buy lots of consumer goods. This consumer engine is being whittled away, replaced by the financially stressed. Even rich people need consumers to stay rich, but they are all working against their own best interest. Corporate influence in politics and lawmaking has become all about the most profit right now, damn the consequences. Study some history and you'll see that it won't last. It never does.

Are you SURE it's not just because they're a bunch of lazy, uneducated fuckups that keep popping out children they can't afford to feed without cancelling their Premium Cable and switching to cheaper beer?

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1 minute ago, kmacdonald said:

BREAKING FACTS

I just spoke with my stepdaughter about day care pricing.  She pays $350/month for after school care with a teachers discount.  Without discount it is about $500/month.  It's in an area with a median income of about $120K/year.  She paid about $1000/month for preschool at a very nice facility in the same area.  These are real numbers by a real person.    

 

Yep. A research sample of one. That for sure makes it statistically projectable data. Uh huh.

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2 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

I agree with what you're saying.  Real income is dropping and the downward spiral is accelerating.  Ross Perot called it a long time ago.  We call it the global economy.  

Republicans call it trickle-down economics.

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12 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

If you libs were a little more appreciative of the scraps the conservative throw your way, you might get bigger raises once in a while.  Instead, you go out of your way to piss them off.  You're shooting yourselves in the head.

:blink:

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37 minutes ago, Nice! said:

Yep. A research sample of one. That for sure makes it statistically projectable data. Uh huh.

He’s purposely being disingenuous.  The original example given in the OP is an infant and a preschooler.  He is quoting after school care and preschool.

All day childcare for an infant will cost more than $500 or $1000.  Not sure what the hours are on the preschool, but it probably isn’t going to cover one of the parents shifts plus commute time.

Quoted you as some people have him on ignore. 

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4 hours ago, kmacdonald said:

You know I raised a kid.  Valedictorian, West Point, Brown Medical School.  

Yes, of the barnyard animals, the west side of the barn, and use your imagination about brown.  

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On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 4:08 AM, Troglodytarum said:

 

Every welfare rat I've seen stuffing their shopping carts with two liter bottles of soda, doritos, steaks, etc and paying with EBT doens't exactly qualify as destitute.

 

I only hope that in your time of crisis someone refers to YOU as vermin.

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1 hour ago, Nice! said:

Yep. A research sample of one. That for sure makes it statistically projectable data. Uh huh.

After school daycare does not equal all day in a quality facility.

My son is paying $1000/ month for 2 full days per week at an extremely high quality facility. His younger child will be starting there in June. Same schedule as her older sibling.  Annual bill will be some like $23000 a year for 2 kids, 2 days per week.

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28 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

 Dont know about the infat but I do know it's more than pre schooler.

Is this charade a cry for help?  You have found a computer and a website to play on.  You are a moron amongst morons.  If you truly earned a 4-year degree from an accredited college, than I am sorry for thinking otherwise.  

So, when did you get laid last.  Me, didn't feel well last weekend, but on average 4-5 times a week.  You strike me as someone who needs to sink a putt.  I'm cool with the life choices you've made.

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10 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

You might need to have a talk with junior.  

Why. He and his wife are doing extremely well for themselves

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3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Neither did mine.  But I invested in single family homes in relatively new developments where I could negotiate a good deal buying models and leasing them back until the devolpment was finished and then I would rent they out to individuals for a while.  I didn't want to be a slumlord.  I did do one 8A rental but that was another story.

I don't think the country is in poor condition.  I think we have a lot of people with unrealistic impressions of themselves.

It's hard when you finally discover that life isn't filled with participation trophies.

 

And like Kmcabe, I ask you how much time have you spent outside our borders, in other first world, countries observing the different quality of life, in health care, longevity, number of poor versus the rest, and number of people in prisons?  The US fails miserably on all of those metrics.  Yes, these countries charge higher taxes, but is fairly distributed amongst the entire populace, unlike the US, where the top per-centers pay little or no taxes due to legal tax loophole, and lousy tax code stacked in their favor, that does not tax certain type of income on them, compared to the rest of us.  We in US are failing on many levels by comparison, and getting slowlyworse as time goes by.  

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19 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:
2 hours ago, Nice! said:

Yep. A research sample of one. That for sure makes it statistically projectable data. Uh huh.

After school daycare does not equal all day in a quality facility.

My son is paying $1000/ month for 2 full days per week at an extremely high quality facility. His younger child will be starting there in June. Same schedule as her older sibling.  Annual bill will be some like $23000 a year for 2 kids, 2 days per week.

We had a full time, live in nanny. At the time I was running my own business and traveling and my wife was practicing and working 70-90 hours/week.

This was 22 years ago.

When our first nanny quit (before I fired her...), we had to find full time day care for a few weeks while we found another nanny.

Twenty-two years ago it was over $200/week where we lived in Warwick, RI - a mostly working class town.

And that place was a pain in the ass to deal with. They didn't open as early as we wanted. They went ballistic if you weren't there at the crack of closing - 4pm or 5pm, I forget which. I just know that for a couple of weeks I was always racing over there from my office to pick my son up and got scolded more than a couple of times for getting there at 5:05 or the like.

I was self employed, so I had the flexibility to drop him off at their late hours and pick him up at their early hours, since I set the schedule for the office. What an extra double hassle that would have been if you had to take a bus to work on someone else's schedule, eh?

Oh, and I think in the three weeks or so my son was there he got sick what, twice?

But that was $800-1,000/month, 22 years ago. I'm guessing it hasn't gotten cheaper. Though it was cheaper than a live-in.

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9 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

And like Kmcabe, I ask you how much time have you spent outside our borders, in other first world, countries observing the different quality of life, in health care, longevity, number of poor versus the rest, and number of people in prisons?  The US fails miserably on all of those metrics.  Yes, these countries charge higher taxes, but is fairly distributed amongst the entire populace, unlike the US, where the top per-centers pay little or no taxes due to legal tax loophole, and lousy tax code stacked in their favor, that does not tax certain type of income on them, compared to the rest of us.  We in US are failing on many levels by comparison, and getting slowlyworse as time goes by.  

I got the impression from recent comments that our new Kcmcshithead sock was the ex-Edith Bicknell/Assman/Snapping Vagina/etc. etc., not Kmcabe.

I didn't think that Kmmcabe ever spawned, and I know Edith did.

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24 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

I got the impression from recent comments that our new Kcmcshithead sock was the ex-Edith Bicknell/Assman/Snapping Vagina/etc. etc., not Kmcabe.

I didn't think that Kmmcabe ever spawned, and I know Edith did.

 

I thought he was Kevin McCabe who used to be in Manhattan, who posted under a similar moniker and had righty views, just quite as extreme as this one.  Early on in his sockhood here, I asked him, and he said he is not the same person.  When I was trying to get a Job he called me and connected me with some personal contacts of his inside HR of the company I was trying to get into.  It did not occur, but I was grateful for his generous help and getting personally involved in my job quest.

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37 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

I just know that for a couple of weeks I was always racing over there from my office to pick my son up and got scolded more than a couple of times for getting there at 5:05 or the like.

Ironic.. 

My mom ran a daycare center.  YOU were the guy that made her late for dinner :)  Did you pay the late fee or let the facility eat the salaries they had to pay for the staff to work late?  By the way, they had to round to the next half hour.  So every late pickup cost the facility about $40 bucks.  They normally only charged the parents $10 or nothing and wrote it off.  That was 1978-1983 or so.  They eventually went out of business. The land and labor costs were more more than they could charge parents.  That was my first job - cleaning the toilets after 80 or so 3-6 year olds pooped and peed all over.  I was about 11?  6th grade.

 

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4 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

Ironic.. 

My mom ran a daycare center.  YOU were the guy that made her late for dinner :)  Did you pay the late fee or let the facility eat the salaries they had to pay for the staff to work late?  By the way, they had to round to the next half hour.  So every late pickup cost the facility about $40 bucks.  They normally only charged the parents $10 or nothing and wrote it off.  That was 1978-1983 or so.  They eventually went out of business. The land and labor costs were more more than they could charge parents.

 

I may have paid a couple of late fees, I don't recall if it ever got beyond the threat stage. We were only there a couple of weeks, not really long enough to figure out a routine.

And I had to stop billing like $125/hour or more to get over there to pick up my kid, so I feel their pain...sort of.

What boggled my mind about this place was that they closed at 5:00pm sharp. So if you worked 9-5, you had to leave work early to get your kid before they closed. Since I rarely, if ever left the office before 5:00pm when I was running my own business, it took some adaptions. But I can't believe I was the only person in the City of Warwick that worked until 5:00pm. I'm lucky, I was able to leave early to get my kid since I was self employed, my wife certainly couldn't make it over there with office hours and her schedule. She *never* left the office before 5:00 unless she was called to the hospital for a delivery.

If you were running a service business like that, don't you think it would make some sense to have the hours a little more accommodating for the people that are paying for it? It just takes advance planning in your staffing...stagger them a little so they have one or two on in the earlier hours, and one or two on from 5-6:00 pm instead of everyone bailing at 5:00.

We were in a pinch, there may have been better places but this is the first one that had space for us.

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16 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I thought he was Kevin McCabe who used to be in Manhattan, who posted under a similar moniker and had righty views, just quite as extreme as this one.  Early on in his sockhood here, I asked him, and he said he is not the same person.  When I was trying to get a Job he called me and connected me with some personal contacts of his inside HR of the company I was trying to get into.  It did not occur, but I was grateful for his generous help and getting personally involved in my job quest.

Kevin did that for you? The same Kevin that spread lies out here about me getting fired from my job, claiming he had the "inside scoop" from some friend of his that worked in the same bank?

Tough to believe that wanker ever did anything right or kind in his life.

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35 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

And I had to stop billing like $125/hour or more to get over there to pick up my kid, so I feel their pain...sort of.

I got it and that experience did teach me a valuable lesson about the world.  The truth is $125 / hour billing is worth more than the 11 year old invisible kid that just wants to go home and have his dinner.  That is a simple truth.  I learned it  young. I just find it incredibly ironic after all these years to run into one of those late parents - metaphorically speaking.

FWIW, the daycare center mostly hired out-of-work teachers.  And here's another truth - teachers in California back in the day didn't like to work beyond 4 pm under any conditions.  They were TEACHERS.  The worked SCHOOL hours.  It was BENEATH THEIR DIGNITY for them to work hours that weren't 8-4.  Basically, my mom had to strong arm them to rotate and cover one day / week late to 5 pm.  My mom's normal hours were 7:30 to 5:30 or later, depending on when parents picked up Jr.  As the 'manager' she had to cover opening and closing.  For reference, you made more money in 4 minutes than she made per hour.  Daycare manager doesn't exactly pay good wages but it was more money than she had ever earned in her life up to that point.  She had a college degree in early child education from Oregon State but single moms didn't get paid much.

And, I'm sure you're wife worked long hours as well, but it wasn't checking on me.  I only went to the doctor three times in 18 years and dentist twice (for which I pay dearly now!).  A trip to the doc cost a day's pay - even then.  Basically, if the fever didn't touch 104, you toughed it out.  I think you said she was an OB/GYN so she wouldn't have seen me anyway :)

 

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26 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Kevin did that for you? The same Kevin that spread lies out here about me getting fired from my job, claiming he had the "inside scoop" from some friend of his that worked in the same bank?

Tough to believe that wanker ever did anything right or kind in his life.

I liked Kevin a lot, we had some very honest and personal conversations and he was a genuinely nice person until he wasn't. But I will tell you he was dinged badly by a lot of sad occurrences in his life. He was a good guy until the end and then he was out of the park, I still miss him around here even if he was way right, and way wrong at times.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

And like Kmcabe, I ask you how much time have you spent outside our borders, in other first world, countries observing the different quality of life, in health care, longevity, number of poor versus the rest, and number of people in prisons?  The US fails miserably on all of those metrics.  Yes, these countries charge higher taxes, but is fairly distributed amongst the entire populace, unlike the US, where the top per-centers pay little or no taxes due to legal tax loophole, and lousy tax code stacked in their favor, that does not tax certain type of income on them, compared to the rest of us.  We in US are failing on many levels by comparison, and getting slowlyworse as time goes by.  

Well, 10 plus years in the UK, a bit over a year in Turkey.  A few months in other places here and there.

We do take cruises now and I try to make contact with other photographers rather than take the guided tours.  Gives me someone with local knowledge, transportation and a chance to discuss their current affairs.  I usually take some of my old gear as a gift since VAT and import duties make stuff horrendously expensive.

One thing I've discovered is that there is still a lot of envy of better off folks.  It doesn't matter how much the state and gives there is always someone who wants more. 

Copenhagen was interesting since we spent a few days there and I got to talk to more people.  I heard about the Hygge thing, being content with small happiness.  They set off with low expectations and achieve them.  You always see the happy people riding bicycles to work.  But,. that's sunny days when they take the pictures.  It gets pretty damned miserable when the rains come and the cold dark nights of winter.  That's when a warm flat is contentment.  And, it is small flats that house most of the population of Copenhagen.  They spend a lot of time outdoors when they can to avoid cabin fever.  There are a lot more single family homes outside the city but then you almost have to commute.

As to income inequality, we are slightly better than most of the world in that regard.

F9EjsEz.png

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

Kevin did that for you? The same Kevin that spread lies out here about me getting fired from my job, claiming he had the "inside scoop" from some friend of his that worked in the same bank?

Tough to believe that wanker ever did anything right or kind in his life.

 

For some reason he thought I was a Republican, rather than a "recovering" Republican.  GWB and his Recession cured me of that....

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49 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

As to income inequality, we are slightly better than most of the world in that regard.

 

F9EjsEz.png

 

Good that you have traveled with your eyes and ears open; but by your own posted graphic, yes we are "slightly better" than "most of the world". Are you proud of that?

My problem is that we are WAY MORE than "slightly worse" than Canada, Scandanavia, and dozens of other First World countries, as shown on your graphic, and to me, that is unacceptable, unconscienable, and a failure of our Government, not the fault of poor people, or whoever's turn in the barrel it is for Regressives to blame, but whose hidden, but tacit attitude is, "We've got ours, Sucks to be you!!"..."Let them eat cake!"

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3 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

So that's who you think I am.  I am not him.  I have never had a different screen name here or anywhere else.  No wonder you are such an ass.

 

With that low number of posts, you are a relative newbie, or a new sock of a long time regular, like most of us are..

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2 hours ago, cmilliken said:

I think you said she was an OB/GYN so she wouldn't have seen me anyway :)

 

Not unless you needed a circumcision.

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1 hour ago, badlatitude said:

I liked Kevin a lot, we had some very honest and personal conversations and he was a genuinely nice person until he wasn't. But I will tell you he was dinged badly by a lot of sad occurrences in his life. He was a good guy until the end and then he was out of the park, I still miss him around here even if he was way right, and way wrong at times.

I think the quality of your character shows in how you handle adversity.

He showed little quality.

He was a small minded, vicious, lying sociopathic asshole, as far as I am concerned.

When I met him face to face he was civil enough, but you could tell he didn't like being near Sol and me.  And his wife was there to temper him, and it was at a memorial service I doubt he otherwise would have attended. Lovely woman, I have NO idea what she saw in that raging lunatic.

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27 minutes ago, billy backstay said:
32 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

So that's who you think I am.  I am not him.  I have never had a different screen name here or anywhere else.  No wonder you are such an ass.

 

With that low number of posts, you are a relative newbie, or a new sock of a long time regular, like most of us are..

Nah, I didn't really start speculating on his ID until he mentioned he had kids.

I have no idea who he is, but his posts here identified him as a grade-A dipshit out of the starting gate, so there wasn't much to see.

I have little patience for Trumpanzees these days, and there is literally no point in trying to have an intelligent conversation with someone not grounded in reality.

I gather this one thinks Trump is "doing the best he can for the country" even...that's rich.

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6 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

I think the quality of your character shows in how you handle adversity.

He showed little quality.

He was a small minded, vicious, lying sociopathic asshole, as far as I am concerned.

When I met him face to face he was civil enough, but you could tell he didn't like being near Sol and me.  And his wife was there to temper him, and it was at a memorial service I doubt he otherwise would have attended. Lovely woman, I have NO idea what she saw in that raging lunatic.

You've indicated that before about him, and I can't argue with your characterization, I saw that side of him also. Towards the end of his stay here, he reached rock bottom and he pretty much chewed up anyone who commented on him.  I did, however, see a remarkable kind side and enjoyed our talks and that's how I will remember him. Maybe it was his wife who kept him grounded, she was a remarkable and vivacious woman. He had to feel empty and lost without her.

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1 minute ago, badlatitude said:

You've indicated that before about him, and I can't argue with your characterization, I saw that side of him also. Towards the end of his stay here, he reached rock bottom and he pretty much chewed up anyone who commented on him.  I did, however, see a remarkable kind side and enjoyed our talks and that's how I will remember him. Maybe it was his wife who kept him grounded, she was a remarkable and vivacious woman. He had to feel empty and lost without her.

That's why ice cream comes in flavors.

But I've never had a hankering for Dog Turds & Creme.

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5 hours ago, kmacdonald said:

Trump is trying to change the plight many of you find yourselves in.  

Look up Trump and convictions.  Always looking out for the little guy.  Only a few more yards, keep walking, sip this if you're thirsty.  

You're are being put on ignore and it's not because you're gay, you're just hateful and dumber than a stump, not qualities I want in my life.  

PS.  Could someone remind me how to put this cocksucker on ignore.  And it's gourd you dumbshit, not gord.  

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

That's why ice cream comes in flavors.

But I've never had a hankering for Dog Turds & Creme.

I just learned of a rumor that Dog was diagnosed with Type II diabetes.  Turns out that eating peanut butter out of Trump's crack is not a healthy diet.  Dog promised his Doctor that he would turn things around.  

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8 hours ago, Nice! said:

Yep. A research sample of one. That for sure makes it statistically projectable data. Uh huh.

Anecdata.

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6 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:
11 hours ago, kmacdonald said:

You know I raised a kid.  Valedictorian, West Point, Brown Medical School.  

Yes, of the barnyard animals, the west side of the barn, and use your imagination about brown.  

Mine did all that and won a Nobel.

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9 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Mine did all that and won a Nobel.

Outstanding!  kmac should win the Pulitzer.  I just learned who he is but withoutthem, too much fun to play the game.  I just wish they would play the game.  Alex, I'll take a lie at any price, and Alex, I'll take how did I become such a mean-sprited ass with no friends (for every dollar they have),  and how can I fix this for $200.

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On 5/28/2019 at 7:08 AM, Troglodytarum said:

What a joke.

How many 'starving' americans have you seen?

Every welfare rat I've seen stuffing their shopping carts with two liter bottles of soda, doritos, steaks, etc and paying with EBT doens't exactly qualify as destitute.

He still drives home to his government subsidized housing, in own car, watches any one of multiple HDTVs in his home while chatting on a smart phone and doesn't even have to work for it.

If you feel it is your business to take note if what other people buy at a grocery store, and what payment method they use, you've got a serious problem. 

And I'm not even counting you then following them home to count their TV sets.

 

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2 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

It's not a dick measuring contest.

mirror ,mirror

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7 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Not unless you needed a circumcision.

Ya know, I didn't realize that OB/GYNs did that.  I guess I have seen at least one in my life :) !

 

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2 hours ago, benwynn said:

If you feel it is your business to take note if what other people buy at a grocery store, and what payment method they use, you've got a serious problem. 

And I'm not even counting you then following them home to count their TV sets.

 

Sometimes it’s hard to be Caucasian.... or something like that.

 

718F77B6-45B2-459E-A6FD-B79DD44E6EE9.jpeg

Stand by Your (White) Man.

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9 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

Good that you have traveled with your eyes and ears open; but by your own posted graphic, yes we are "slightly better" than "most of the world". Are you proud of that?

My problem is that we are WAY MORE than "slightly worse" than Canada, Scandanavia, and dozens of other First World countries, as shown on your graphic, and to me, that is unacceptable, unconscienable, and a failure of our Government, not the fault of poor people, or whoever's turn in the barrel it is for Regressives to blame, but whose hidden, but tacit attitude is, "We've got ours, Sucks to be you!!"..."Let them eat cake!"

Again

One thing I've discovered is that there is still a lot of envy of better off folks.  It doesn't matter how much the state gives there is always someone who wants more.

Norway decided to encourage electric vehicles by eliminating the special car taxes on them.

The result was the elimination of the initial registration tax and the CO2 tax

Here is an example of the taxes from a car forum

How and why cars are expensive in Norway (tax examples)

renderTimingPixel.pngHi people. I recently saw a thread on best and worst countries to be a car enthusiast, and Norway popped up frequently as an answer. I'm about to show you why. The average salary in Norway is about 60,000k dollars, but still we got one of the oldest car-fleets in Europe. This is because of extreme taxes on everything. Power (hp and kw), weight, age, so on. A Chevrolet Camaro (3.6 litre V6) is over 156,000 dollars here in Norway (if I were to import). Why?
  • Value-added tax = 9,000 dollars

  • Tax for the weight of the car = 15,000 dollars

  • Engine tax (horepowers mostly) = 27,000 dollars

  • CO2 tax = 72,000 dollars

  • N0x-tax (nitrogen oxide) = 1000 dollars

  • First-time registration (to get license plates, don't know what this is called in us) = 115,000 dollars

  • In case you want-to-scrap-your-car-tax = 400 dollars

The result was that while folks envied anyone who could afford a car, the Tesla owners were hated.

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3 hours ago, benwynn said:

If you feel it is your business to take note if what other people buy at a grocery store, and what payment method they use, you've got a serious problem. 

And I'm not even counting you then following them home to count their TV sets.

 

SOMEBODY has to be poor-shaming on the front lines.

 

It's not like you can just make this shit up because you want it to be true.

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16 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Neither did mine.  But I invested in single family homes in relatively new developments where I could negotiate a good deal buying models and leasing them back until the devolpment was finished and then I would rent they out to individuals for a while.  I didn't want to be a slumlord.  I did do one 8A rental but that was another story.

I don't think the country is in poor condition.  I think we have a lot of people with unrealistic impressions of themselves.

It's hard when you finally discover that life isn't filled with participation trophies.

The US has the shittiest, worst-maintained infrastructure in any of the countries I've visited in the past ten/twelve years.

-DSK

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11 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Well, 10 plus years in the UK, a bit over a year in Turkey.  A few months in other places here and there.

We do take cruises now and I try to make contact with other photographers rather than take the guided tours.  Gives me someone with local knowledge, transportation and a chance to discuss their current affairs.  I usually take some of my old gear as a gift since VAT and import duties make stuff horrendously expensive.

One thing I've discovered is that there is still a lot of envy of better off folks.  It doesn't matter how much the state and gives there is always someone who wants more. 

Copenhagen was interesting since we spent a few days there and I got to talk to more people.  I heard about the Hygge thing, being content with small happiness.  They set off with low expectations and achieve them.  You always see the happy people riding bicycles to work.  But,. that's sunny days when they take the pictures.  It gets pretty damned miserable when the rains come and the cold dark nights of winter.  That's when a warm flat is contentment.  And, it is small flats that house most of the population of Copenhagen.  They spend a lot of time outdoors when they can to avoid cabin fever.  There are a lot more single family homes outside the city but then you almost have to commute.

As to income inequality, we are slightly better than most of the world in that regard.

F9EjsEz.png

Interesting map, but are you sure it buttresses your point about Denmark?

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44 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Again

One thing I've discovered is that there is still a lot of envy of better off folks.  It doesn't matter how much the state gives there is always someone who wants more.

Norway decided to encourage electric vehicles by eliminating the special car taxes on them.

The result was the elimination of the initial registration tax and the CO2 tax

Here is an example of the taxes from a car forum

How and why cars are expensive in Norway (tax examples)

renderTimingPixel.pngHi people. I recently saw a thread on best and worst countries to be a car enthusiast, and Norway popped up frequently as an answer. I'm about to show you why. The average salary in Norway is about 60,000k dollars, but still we got one of the oldest car-fleets in Europe. This is because of extreme taxes on everything. Power (hp and kw), weight, age, so on. A Chevrolet Camaro (3.6 litre V6) is over 156,000 dollars here in Norway (if I were to import). Why?
  • Value-added tax = 9,000 dollars

  • Tax for the weight of the car = 15,000 dollars

  • Engine tax (horepowers mostly) = 27,000 dollars

  • CO2 tax = 72,000 dollars

  • N0x-tax (nitrogen oxide) = 1000 dollars

  • First-time registration (to get license plates, don't know what this is called in us) = 115,000 dollars

  • In case you want-to-scrap-your-car-tax = 400 dollars

The result was that while folks envied anyone who could afford a car, the Tesla owners were hated.

It is appropriate to tax items when the markets fail.  Even Adam Smith recognized the need to correct markets.

I had an office mate that ended up in the hospital instead of work because of Atlanta's bad air.  We have bad air days a lot.  The EPA has failed us.

Smith recognized, the invisible hand ‘breaks down’ to some extent in the presence of externalities.

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39 minutes ago, hasher said:

It is appropriate to tax items when the markets fail.  Even Adam Smith recognized the need to correct markets.

I had an office mate that ended up in the hospital instead of work because of Atlanta's bad air.  We have bad air days a lot.  The EPA has failed us.

Smith recognized, the invisible hand ‘breaks down’ to some extent in the presence of externalities.

The weird thing with Norway is that the Sovereign Wealth fund has accumulated over a trillion dollars mostly from selling oil.  That's about 200K per Norwegian.  They are using the money to buy up stock and real estate all over the world.

They are telling the Norwegians that this is their 'pension' fund while taxing them out the ass for the day to day operations.

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5 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

Are you a civil engineer?

I'm an engineer, and again you expose your ignorance. Infrastructure is not limited to civil engineers.  Not even close.  As soon as someone gives me how, you are on ignore.

You seem so repressed, no sex again last night with any of the animals?

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51 minutes ago, Amati said:

Interesting map, but are you sure it buttresses your point about Denmark?

No, it wasn't intended to actually.  Just an afterthought on income equality.

If it relates it is that in spite of the income equality there is still envy.  It only takes a little more for people to think you are 'rich'.

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16 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

No, it wasn't intended to actually.  Just an afterthought on income equality.

If it relates it is that in spite of the income equality there is still envy.  It only takes a little more for people to think you are 'rich'.

And yet, few rich people feel like they are....

What struck me about the map was the paucity of correlation between rich country/ poor country and income disparity- it seems more a matter of culture.  

I get that you don’t like Denmark’s (Scandinavia’s for that matter) choices, so maybe don’t live there?  For that matter why even travel there?  

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26 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

The US has the shittiest, worst-maintained infrastructure in any of the countries I've visited in the past ten/twelve years.

Are you a civil engineer?

No, I'm rude as hell to dumbfucks like you, who earn it

-DSK

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7 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

You're an engineer and can't figure that out on your own?  Another jackass that requires spoon feedings.  Time to breathe again dork.

That you didn't have sex with any of the animals, I assumed that was a given.  

Asswipe, post some results or story that show you ever sailed.  Otherwise, go back to licking Dog's asshole in the fervent hope that some of Trump's shit lands on your tongue.  

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14 hours ago, cmilliken said:

Ironic.. 

My mom ran a daycare center.  YOU were the guy that made her late for dinner :)  Did you pay the late fee or let the facility eat the salaries they had to pay for the staff to work late?  By the way, they had to round to the next half hour.  So every late pickup cost the facility about $40 bucks.  They normally only charged the parents $10 or nothing and wrote it off.  That was 1978-1983 or so.  They eventually went out of business. The land and labor costs were more more than they could charge parents.  That was my first job - cleaning the toilets after 80 or so 3-6 year olds pooped and peed all over.  I was about 11?  6th grade.

 

As usual, you provide a new perspective on an old reality,    This is an one of the challenges of those ‘getting by’ that wasn’t mentioned by the Esteemed panel.    I just gained an employee because her former job kept rearranging her schedule or making her work late.   Child care late fees and commute time were killing her, she took a 25% pay cut.    For those lower on the success ladder, the late fee may cost more then any mandatory overtime paid.   But time and a half plus the inconvenience of unplanned mandatory overtime for two child care workers (you need a witness for liability reasons) make the need to charge a late fee understandable.    The guy with a nanny doesn’t worry much about those details when he mandates the overtime or tells somebody their schedule just changed for his convenience.   

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13 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Well, 10 plus years in the UK, a bit over a year in Turkey.  A few months in other places here and there.

We do take cruises now and I try to make contact with other photographers rather than take the guided tours.  Gives me someone with local knowledge, transportation and a chance to discuss their current affairs.  I usually take some of my old gear as a gift since VAT and import duties make stuff horrendously expensive.

One thing I've discovered is that there is still a lot of envy of better off folks.  It doesn't matter how much the state and gives there is always someone who wants more. 

Copenhagen was interesting since we spent a few days there and I got to talk to more people.  I heard about the Hygge thing, being content with small happiness.  They set off with low expectations and achieve them.  You always see the happy people riding bicycles to work.  But,. that's sunny days when they take the pictures.  It gets pretty damned miserable when the rains come and the cold dark nights of winter.  That's when a warm flat is contentment.  And, it is small flats that house most of the population of Copenhagen.  They spend a lot of time outdoors when they can to avoid cabin fever.  There are a lot more single family homes outside the city but then you almost have to commute.

As to income inequality, we are slightly better than most of the world in that regard.

F9EjsEz.png

Tied with Russia and superior to half of Africa.  How could you look at this chart and not be depressed by the company we keep (unless you pretend it’s a good thing because it provides suckers willing to wash your bottom inexpensively).   

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Avoiding the quagmire of 'deserve help' is one of the big reasons I'm against things like racial quotas and anything that's 'targeted' based on some magical criteria that the beautiful people can come up with.  I've never seen it work with enough reliability to avoid the stereotypes showing through and I think we have enough complexity already.

I'd rather raise every boat a foot than pretend I'm smart enough to figure out which owners 'deserve' to have their boats lifted.  For the people at the bottom of the socio-econmic ladder, that foot will matter a lot.  For the people near the top, the foot won't matter at all and I'm going to get to claw back a good chunk of it in taxes anyway, particularly if any 'direct contributions' are income.  I literally don't care that Bill Gates gets SSI.  He paid in - good for him.  That's why I've been receptive to Andrew Yang.  FWIW, I think geopolitical dicking around is great for ratings but a terrible policy - which is why I'm tending to support Tulsi Gabbard.

Rich people love concentrated wealth.  They love their gated communities  - especially when the gating is economic.  Fences are so 1950's and are embarrassing to the perception of open inclusiveness.  So much better if you can just drive a way the rift-raft with high prices, making them come in only when you NEED their cheep labor, and have them magically disappear to wherever they go when you don't need them.  Hence, why I think we should tax property and kick the money back into things like transportation.  Those financial walls should have a cost of maintenance. Just like the physical barriers.  I'd be OK with the property tax going straight to military spending too.  What's the military for if not to protect 'our property'. 

Making money on money is something we've institutionalized but if you don't already have money, then you're shut out.  Since we're basically gutting the importance of the post office, its important that all Americans have access to the alternative - namely minimal communication services such as phone/texting/banking services.  Minimal cell phone connectivity is essentially free and the data consumed is a rounding error.  But if you DON'T have connections of any kind, it's a tough world.

 

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Just now, kmacdonald said:

Just was wondering how you evaluated the infrastructure.  Slinging shit without any evidence doesn't make for a very good argument. 

And I wonder if you know gord is not correct.  

Your community college owes you a rebate. 

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On 5/29/2019 at 11:01 PM, Nice! said:

Pay attention. Living within means at $20 per hour is not possible, regardless of purchase decision discipline.

That’s not true. I know a couple who do exactly that. 

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

I'm an engineer, and again you expose your ignorance. Infrastructure is not limited to civil engineers.  Not even close.  As soon as someone gives me how, you are on ignore.

You seem so repressed, no sex again last night with any of the animals?

Hover your cursor over the miscreant's avatar and you will get a popup box. Click "Ignore user", confirm. Done. 

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53 minutes ago, Lark said:

Tied with Russia and superior to half of Africa.  How could you look at this chart and not be depressed by the company we keep (unless you pretend it’s a good thing because it provides suckers willing to wash your bottom inexpensively).   

Some are equally well off and some are equally destitute.  It's a way to measure differences, not categorize them.  It's not the one riches person vs the one poorest.  There is a whole lot of calculation involved which uses greek stuff I haven't needed for years.   It's used in conjunction with a lot of other factors when actually analyzing country differences.

The first thing you should consider when you look at it is if income equality is actually a good thing. 

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6 hours ago, Mid said:
6 hours ago, kmacdonald said:

It's not a dick measuring contest.

 

Lucky for him.

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2 hours ago, Saorsa said:

No, it wasn't intended to actually.  Just an afterthought on income equality.

If it relates it is that in spite of the income equality there is still envy.  It only takes a little more for people to think you are 'rich'.

Why is it that only right wing dumbfucks can only think "envy" when the subject of extreme income inequality comes up?

Are they simply too stupid to comprehend the negative impact of it on a society.

Actually, dumb question - of course they are.

The beautiful irony of it is that because they are so stupid, they are among the biggest victims of it - for example I give you Mississippi.

And Warbird.

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

Tied with Russia and superior to half of Africa.  How could you look at this chart and not be depressed by the company we keep (unless you pretend it’s a good thing because it provides suckers willing to wash your bottom inexpensively).   

 

Thanks Lark!  You made my point, better than I ever could, kudos!

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

Tied with Russia and superior to half of Africa.  How could you look at this chart and not be depressed by the company we keep

Parallels the USA's clinging to the Imperial measurement system - the company you keep there is down to Myanmar and Liberia.

Americans must be proud.

Hard to believe that the USA led the way in most things when I was an adult working for a living.

That encompasses 6 Republican Presidents and 3 Dems.

Draw your own conclusions about cause & effect.

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10 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

Sour grapes.  Start your own business and see what you do.  You'll convince yourself you earn 20 times the average workers salary.  Tiger Woods syndrome.

I hate that glitch here that shows ignored idiots when you and they post at the same time.

You prove my point about right wing idiots - I made my potful and got out at 57. I've been playing ever since.

And just by the by, measured by assets rather than the usual income measures, my wife & I are 1%'ers.

So fuck you and your "sour grapes", "envy" and other moronic responses to a very real societal problem.

 

You fucking right wing moron (I know, I know, that's a redundancy).

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1 hour ago, kmacdonald said:

Thanks for letting him know.  Hopefully he can follow the clear and simple instructions you spoon fed him.

And I wish your dad was smart enough to open a condom...yes, you are the spitting (not swallowing sorrowfully) image of one dumb creature.  

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

The first thing you should consider when you look at it is if income equality is actually a good thing. 

It would be funny if it were not pathetic how the Reich, (1) first claims that excessive inequality does not exist, then (2) says that if it does exist, it is good (and for the best in the best of all possible worlds), finally (3) says that if it does exist it's because Americans are an inferior species (compared to well functioning countries where inequality is mitigated). 

The "system" and the oligarchy are always blameless. 

Sometimes they toss in the straw man - and claim that the left wants "everyone to be the same". Not true, and never has been. 

So predictable, stupid and malevolent. 

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6 hours ago, cmilliken said:

I'd rather raise every boat a foot than pretend I'm smart enough to figure out which owners 'deserve' to have their boats lifted.  For the people at the bottom of the socio-econmic ladder, that foot will matter a lot.

Therein is the rub.

Many right wingers would rather let EVERYONE starve than let one scammer fool the system.

And the self appointed regulators like Trogs think they know who is scamming (most of them) and how needs help (has Sally Struthers been in a video with them?) while having no real clue about poverty and disadvantage in our own country.

Your view puts the emphasis on empathy and compassion, which I think is how we should run things. Their view puts the emphasis on greed and punishment, which is no basis for running a government.

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