Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Ive had Henri Lloyd ocean gear, got before my 1st Transatlantic in 1997. So after 22yrs I need to get new gear.  It has been awesome gear and I want new stuff on par with that, no compromises.

So what are some opines on quality ocean grade gear nowadays?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever you go with, make sure its Gore-tex.... nothing else compares fabric wise.  The prices of all of it have gone through the roof on most brands, your wallet will feel much lighter after this round.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was dissapointed with my last set of Henri Lloyd foulies (now ~4 years old). The grey layer on the inside has started to wear off in high friction areas like the crotch - i'm not sure how waterproof they really are anymore.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm using gul... not too expensive, keeps me dry and breathes. (sailing mostly coastal and short offshore)

trousers need replacement within 3 years for me... (no matter what brand, after 2-3 years they start leaking in the crotch area)

Link to post
Share on other sites

HH Aeger Ocean Series - My shit is always dry when the HPX guys are soggy. If you don't have boots with gaiters, that's a must as well, especially if you go forward of the mast.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been looking for a new set of offshore foul weather gear for a while.   I had a set of HL Ocean Pros that lasted a long time (30 years.)   As far as I can tell, fabrics using Gore-tex are a fraction of the longevity of the prior gear.   They will be dryer for 4-6 years, then the membrane will start breaking down and then it is all-she-wrote, done for waterproofness.

Since HL is being restructured, I am not certain the quality of their current production is at the same level as two years ago.   Likewise, I hear stories about Zhik ocean gear that just falls apart after a year.

This is a pretty healthy chunk of change to drop on foul weather gear, and I will make my choice carefully this fall.

- Stumbling

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

I have been looking for a new set of offshore foul weather gear for a while.   I had a set of HL Ocean Pros that lasted a long time (30 years.)   As far as I can tell, fabrics using Gore-tex are a fraction of the longevity of the prior gear.   They will be dryer for 4-6 years, then the membrane will start breaking down and then it is all-she-wrote, done for waterproofness.

Since HL is being restructured, I am not certain the quality of their current production is at the same level as two years ago.   Likewise, I hear stories about Zhik ocean gear that just falls apart after a year.

This is a pretty healthy chunk of change to drop on foul weather gear, and I will make my choice carefully this fall.

- Stumbling

that's why i buy the relatively cheap stuf... so it doesn't hurt too much if i replace it after 2-3 years. (full gul suit costs 1/3 or less than musto)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Nice! said:

Fairly unimpressed with my SLAM bib pants. They soaked through in a rain squall on about the 12th time I wore them.

it's italian... it stops the wind but not the water.... (you shouldn't sail when it's raining according to the italians, i guess...)

 

i tried one of their tops.... a wool sweater would have been more efficient...

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, daan62 said:

it's italian... it stops the wind but not the water.... (you shouldn't sail when it's raining according to the italians, i guess...)

 

i tried one of their tops.... a wool sweater would have been more efficient...

that's how it stops the wind - the water fills in the pores in the fabric and stops the air from moving through. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mustang__1 said:

that's how it stops the wind - the water fills in the pores in the fabric and stops the air from moving through. 

conclusion: do not buy slam if you expect wet situations! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

my experience with Gore-tex is that it lasts better than 4-6 years BUT you need to take care of it - that is, rinse it with warm fresh water after regattas to keep the surface clean. it stops working when the pores get clogged. I've got a jacket that is still as waterproof as the day I bought it, well over the 6 year limit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

my personal  experience is that nothing works if you get them stuck in a spinnaker sheet winch  and have to cut the jacket  to 1. free yourself 2. drop the kite ;-)

 

free advice

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Believe it or not, Goretex or any other porous variation is not the best material for foulies that are worn in salt water.  If you're on a multi-day trip and don't rinse them between every use and instead hang them in a wet locker allow the salt water to dry, then the salt crystals clog the pores and you lose the breathability of the fabric.  Then because of the sweat/moisture buildup, you think your foulies are leaking...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought a Henri-Lloyd jacket in Plymouth just before the start of the TwoStar race. I had spent the whole delivery trip going sailing over for the start of the race patching, sewing, and recoating seams of my old jacket and was so cold and miserable that I spent the last of my cash on the nicest offshore jacket I could afford. The next day I was working in the cockpit of the tiny trimaran and the new jacket was sitting at the end of the cockpit still in its wrapper. A Henri-Lloyd sale rep walked by and saw it and asked where I had bought my new 'Jumper'.

     I didn't know what he was talking about and he said something further about my new 'kit'. I finally figured out he was talking about the foul weather jacket and told him the chandlery where I had spent my last few bucks. He asked if I had paid VAT (which I did...) and he said that I had that coming back to me and he would give me some forms to fill out to help get that money back since I wasn't a local. He asked where my 'Bib' was and I was stumped again.  I was in fact trying to reseal my old bottoms of my gear and he pointed at them and asked why I didn't get the matching Henri-Lloyd bib. I told him I was more worried about cold N Atlantic seawater going down my neck than up my trouser cuffs. He just laughed and said he would be back.

     About 5 minutes later he walk back down the dock with an older distinguished looking gent in tow and introduces him as Mr Lloyd. He explained how I had foregone the bib for the higher priced Offshore Jacket and had some VAT money due to me. I still hadn't figured out who the kind old fellow was but he invited me to take a short stroll with him so up we went to the parking lot. He opens the door to a beautiful chocolate brown Rolls Royce sedan with engraved rear quarter window that read 'Henri-Lloyd'. He said, 'Let's take a short drive...'

    I slid in the left side door thinking I was going to get a chance to drive a Rolls but then realized it was the passenger seat. When Henri got behind the wheel on the other side I started to have qualms about our 'little drive'. He merely cruised to the other side of the parking lot to where there was a big trailer truck (lorry) with the Henri-Lloyd logo on it and they were hauling out boxes of gear for the big weekend boat show for the start of the TwoStar events. He disappeared into the truck and came back out and handed me the top of the line bib with a smile. I was so grateful until I got back to the boat and saw that the Ocean Bib was far better than my hardwon Offshore Jacket. The sale rep guy came around and offered to go to the chandlery to ensure I got my credit for the VAT paid and when we got there he just suggested to the merchant that they upgrade me to the Ocean jacket and we forgot about the VAT thing. 

    Made the race almost bearable.

  • Like 19
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, lamorak said:

Believe it or not, Goretex or any other porous variation is not the best material for foulies that are worn in salt water.  If you're on a multi-day trip and don't rinse them between every use and instead hang them in a wet locker allow the salt water to dry, then the salt crystals clog the pores and you lose the breathability of the fabric.  Then because of the sweat/moisture buildup, you think your foulies are leaking...

still seems to work well enough for  the volvo and vendee teams. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, mustang__1 said:

still seems to work well enough for  the volvo and vendee teams. 

Not really, I've been involved with both Vendee and Volvo teams streamlining their base layers, mid layers, and outer shells. The volvo teams carry extras and tend to throw away 2, sometimes 3 sets per person per leg for the reason's I stated.

I worked with 2 of the teams on the last version, and on the southern ocean and arctic legs they only carried 1 extra set per person on board, and only used the spares in the case of damage.  Some legs, they combined spares and carried 1/2 the amount. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, 

I have a Decathlon Ocean Smock (LINK) that I regularly use for SF Bay Area Inshore & Offshore racing. It's only 1 yr old but so far I'm super happy with it. It's holding up nicely and doesn't break the bank. I do bow btw, so I'm usually well sprayed :D

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, lamorak said:

Not really, I've been involved with both Vendee and Volvo teams streamlining their base layers, mid layers, and outer shells. The volvo teams carry extras and tend to throw away 2, sometimes 3 sets per person per leg for the reason's I stated.

I worked with 2 of the teams on the last version, and on the southern ocean and arctic legs they only carried 1 extra set per person on board, and only used the spares in the case of damage.  Some legs, they combined spares and carried 1/2 the amount. 

This sounds like an advertisement for Grundens.

I just picked up a Mustang Survival 6.5 drysuit. The material, zippers, and construction appear as good as or better than my six year old Musto HPX gear. I just have to get used to the Seal Team 6 black look.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sparrow50 said:

This sounds like an advertisement for Grundens.

I just picked up a Mustang Survival 6.5 drysuit. The material, zippers, and construction appear as good as or better than my six year old Musto HPX gear. I just have to get used to the Seal Team 6 black look.

The milspec gortex only comes in one colour!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having tried expensive gear I've gone back to cheap, nothing can take the hammering  of tacking every minute or so for 3-4 hours each day of sailing.  I look for wear capablity not ultimate protection as sea sailing we aren't. Additional layers are required for warmth when it's snowing..

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had coastal musto stuff that lasted a couple of years, then some cheap rooster stuff that was waterproof but pretty basic, then some gill stuff that's ok. Best thing I ever bought was a basic gill smock, have barely worn my jacket since. And my zhik boots, they are the bomb.com. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aegis gear from Helly Hansen.  Salopettes are more insulative than most and cuffed elastic which go over the duberry sailboots.  They are comfortable and dry.

Keeping the gear clean does make for longer lasting but with every manufacturer in the book on my "worn" list they all breakdown after 2 or 3 years.  The crotches start to leach water and jackets more so around the collar where the seams take a beating and tend to wear.  

I have even found that wearing a storm jacket or torrent shell from Patagonia with layers underneath makes for a better fit and if the jacket is new and clean, I stay dry.  Not big on the hoods that Henri Lloyd incorporated in their offshore jackets.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Irish River said:

The milspec gortex only comes in one colour!

Sure, but I know a couple places where you can get some for free. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aegis Helly Hansen are comfortable and insulated.  I would venture a guess that after 2 or 3 years almost all gear becomes "gortex saturated".  Meaning no more dry ass sitting on the rail.

I have used Henri LLoyd, Gill, Atlantis, and see the same results.  After a few years even after cleaning them and hang drying they seem to leach water in the collar and the pants in the seat.  I have found wearing a Torrentshell Patagonia jacket with enough layers is just as good and fits better.  The hood arrangement is more of a fit as well.  Again, after years they all suck...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been using Musto for the past 15 years or so.  I have used both the MPX and HPX gear.  I find I get about 6 years out of them before they need to be replaced barring any sort of catastrophic damage.  The issue as someone mentioned above is not that the gear starts leaking it is that it stops breathing.  Once it stops breathing it might as well leak as it all ends the same with you wet and cold. I had a Gill off shore Jacket a long time back it worked fine but musto just fits and works better ergonomically for me

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the old days you'd have semipermeable material, treat it with a water repellent and repeat when necessary. 

Goretex is amazing but needs to be cleaned and gently laundered to last. As others have said, it becomes saturated by salt over time and the wetness you're feeling is actually largely your own perspiration unable to escape then dissolving the salt. It is the worst feeling but can be delayed by good dockside washing. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, proOC said:

Aegis Helly Hansen are comfortable and insulated.  I would venture a guess that after 2 or 3 years almost all gear becomes "gortex saturated".  Meaning no more dry ass sitting on the rail.

I have used Henri LLoyd, Gill, Atlantis, and see the same results.  After a few years even after cleaning them and hang drying they seem to leach water in the collar and the pants in the seat.  I have found wearing a Torrentshell Patagonia jacket with enough layers is just as good and fits better.  The hood arrangement is more of a fit as well.  Again, after years they all suck...

 

Is that recent experience?  My '97 era Henri Lloyd ocean gear lasted a couple decades, just the last couple years really started to lose it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, bgytr said:

Is that recent experience?  My '97 era Henri Lloyd ocean gear lasted a couple decades, just the last couple years really started to lose it.

I have 5-6 year old HL stuff that I treat like shit (often balled up on the boat, or crammed into a sailing bag) and it's still holding up great.  It is mid-level gear from a discontinued line called something like "Shockwave".

I don't think they are distributed in the US anymore?

A lot of people on our boat have been disappointed with Helly Hansen (again probably mid-level gear).  A lot also like cheap to mid-level Gill (OS2).

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bgytr said:

Is that recent experience?  My '97 era Henri Lloyd ocean gear lasted a couple decades, just the last couple years really started to lose it.

The Lloyd gear was from 10+ years ago.  It wore pretty well but still waned at the end.

I will find out about the HH stuff soon enough....

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alex W said:

I have 5-6 year old HL stuff that I treat like shit (often balled up on the boat, or crammed into a sailing bag) and it's still holding up great.  It is mid-level gear from a discontinued line called something like "Shockwave".

I don't think they are distributed in the US anymore?

A lot of people on our boat have been disappointed with Helly Hansen (again probably mid-level gear).  A lot also like cheap to mid-level Gill (OS2).

 

'(often balled up on the boat, or crammed into a sailing bag)': how else to transport/ stow it? 

on a dragon there are not to many lockers/ when you take your spraytop of you just toss it in the front of the boat or stuff it in a bag

but most probably the worst is UV and salt! (i rinse suit and boots when rinsing the boat and do not let my leather dubarry boots dry in the sun)

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/5/2019 at 1:00 AM, Murphness said:

HH Aeger Ocean Series - My shit is always dry when the HPX guys are soggy. If you don't have boots with gaiters, that's a must as well, especially if you go forward of the mast.

that's not entirely my recollection........

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/13/2019 at 12:09 AM, mylespe said:

that's not entirely my recollection........

Right - Forgot about using your crewmates as water shields strategy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/4/2019 at 1:18 PM, stumblingthunder said:

IAs far as I can tell, fabrics using Gore-tex are a fraction of the longevity of the prior gear.

Gore-Tex is fine, nothing wrong with it but it is not the perfect, miraculous super-fabric many people claim it to be. Like everything else it is a compromise; so pick your poison, and don’t be seduced into paying insane amounts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...

Posting in this old thread for some advice.

Planning on cruising all winter here in the PNW due to COVID and I need good foulies to do so. Previously I got away with just using Gore-Tex ski gear for Spring/Summer/Fall racing and cruising but it has its pitfalls. If I'm going out for extended cruises all winter without a dodger or bimini I'll need some proper gear...

General consensus seems to be for the Gore-Tex gear from HH, Mustang, etc. My question is the differences between the top end stuff (HH Aegir Ocean, Mustang EP Ocean) vs the "medium" stuff (HH Aegir Race, Mustang Meris). If I'm not (voluntarily) doing foredeck work and I'm just sitting/standing in cockpit will I benefit from the price bump? Are the seals/gaskets in the high end gear going to be more annoying than they're going to benefit?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/4/2019 at 2:14 PM, ryley said:

my experience with Gore-tex is that it lasts better than 4-6 years BUT you need to take care of it - that is, rinse it with warm fresh water after regattas to keep the surface clean. it stops working when the pores get clogged. I've got a jacket that is still as waterproof as the day I bought it, well over the 6 year limit.

my experience is that it stops working because it delaminates.., not because i don't take care of it.

as i posted in another thread, i have had gore tex foul weather gear replaced under warranty by 4 about different manufacturers, because of delamination.: Musto, Kokatat, Dubarry, and Zhik. The Zhik might have been their own laminate.., but the others were gore tex.

Kokatat replaced my drysuit twice!

HenriLLoyd was the one that refused to do anything about a delaminated jacket.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, climenuts said:

If I'm not (voluntarily) doing foredeck work and I'm just sitting/standing in cockpit will I benefit from the price bump? Are the seals/gaskets in the high end gear going to be more annoying than they're going to benefit?

 

For driving, trimming, navigating I've found that the high collars and flaps on the high end "Ocean" gear are more annoying than helpful in the PNW where you are dealing more with mist and drizzle than horizontal spray.  I had a local shop modify the collar on a new jacket so I could see to my right when sitting at the tiller.  And get check out the hood to find out if it droops over your face or you'll always want a baseball cap on to keep it out of your eyes.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, us7070 said:

HenriLLoyd was the one that refused to do anything about a delaminated jacket.

that's interesting. My 6+ jacket is a henri lloyd. I haven't noticed any delam anywhere.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/4/2019 at 12:29 PM, shubrook said:

I was dissapointed with my last set of Henri Lloyd foulies (now ~4 years old). The grey layer on the inside has started to wear off in high friction areas like the crotch - i'm not sure how waterproof they really are anymore.

Begs the question what you are doing in your foulies to create so much friction 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's always the trousers that go with my foulies, no matter what make. But then tacking every 30seconds to a minute or so up wind on the river means  a lot of wear. Since it's almost entirely fresh water sailing and the gear very rarely gets dirty, I've found it's surprising Gortex, doesn't last anymore than conventional for the upper clothing. Yes it's better than other clothing when new, but I've not found it worth it overall.

So I have a non gortex flotation suit for the winter, so that is dry and very warm. https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-floatation-flotation-immersion-fishing/dp/B07VGJX952/ref=sr_1_2?crid=IUZFTZXDGOIE&dchild=1&keywords=fladen+suit&qid=1602140054&sprefix=fladen+suit%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-2

For the summer it's just a light waterproof spray suit ..

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/4/2019 at 11:35 AM, bgytr said:

Ive had Henri Lloyd ocean gear, got before my 1st Transatlantic in 1997. So after 22yrs I need to get new gear.  It has been awesome gear and I want new stuff on par with that, no compromises.

So what are some opines on quality ocean grade gear nowadays?

 

Last year I was in the UK and needed a set of foul weather gear for sea trials 

I bought a mid price set from Helly Hansen . The Skagen range 

good stuff for summer sailing 

typically you need two sets of gear 

one  lightweight set for every day use 

one space suite set for heavy weather use 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, slug zitski said:

 

Last year I was in the UK and needed a set of foul weather gear for sea trials 

I bought a mid price set from Helly Hansen . The Skagen range 

good stuff for summer sailing 

typically you need two sets of gear 

one  lightweight set for every day use 

one space suite set for heavy weather use 

 

bought the trousers on discount about 2 years ago... 125 EUR... happy!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/5/2020 at 6:47 PM, us7070 said:

my experience is that it stops working because it delaminates.., not because i don't take care of it.

as i posted in another thread, i have had gore tex foul weather gear replaced under warranty by 4 about different manufacturers, because of delamination.: Musto, Kokatat, Dubarry, and Zhik. The Zhik might have been their own laminate.., but the others were gore tex.

Kokatat replaced my drysuit twice!

HenriLLoyd was the one that refused to do anything about a delaminated jacket.

most of the time first point of concern is the crotch... coating disappears and it starts leaking... (at a nasty spot (you come out of your gear looking like you pissed your pants))

Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone experimented with applying a DWR (durable water repellent) finish to extend the life of their foulies? It sounds like a lot of what y'all are talking about is the factory DWR wearing off, not a membrane failure. It should stop the outer layer of fabric from getting saturated and make it easier for the breathable waterproof membrane to do its thing. Even if the problem is the membrane, getting water off the surface of the garment faster should stop light spray, and at least slow the leak in a downpour.

https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/rainwear-dwr.html

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good experience with Mustang. The warranty dept stands behind their product as well....

 

Musto is a shitshow, good luck if anything delams. 

 

I just bought a Kokatat drysuit...so far I'm thrilled. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/8/2020 at 11:54 AM, WillyT123 said:

Has anyone experimented with applying a DWR (durable water repellent) finish to extend the life of their foulies? It sounds like a lot of what y'all are talking about is the factory DWR wearing off, not a membrane failure. It should stop the outer layer of fabric from getting saturated and make it easier for the breathable waterproof membrane to do its thing. Even if the problem is the membrane, getting water off the surface of the garment faster should stop light spray, and at least slow the leak in a downpour.

https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/rainwear-dwr.html

I got 10 years of good use out of a Henri Loyd Gortex set using their wash and waterproof restoration solution.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

I have been using the Plastimo XM Offshore line of breatheable foul weather gear for a number of years now.  I used them mostly for coastal races with a couple of offshore races mixed in.  Excellent value for the price,  durable, quite breatheable, and I am about to order a set for my wife who has ancient Henri-Lloyd gear and is due for an update.  The prime directive in sailing is that your wife must have the best foul weather gear on the boat.

This line of gear is almost never seen in stores but most chandlers can order them.  

14_20326-sunfast3600.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Musto HPX has a lot of fans, it seems to be the best breathable stuff that lasts & stays waterproof over time but it’s $2k. Everything else seems to lose its waterproof abilities in a couple of years (if they were good at the start) 

I’ve heard a cheap way to stay dry is to buy a $150-200 smock top to wear under your lesser gear that is ageing & might not be as good as new. The smocks stay waterproof for a couple of years & at that price you can afford to replace them. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The smock trick really works.  Used a light dingy smock under an ageing coastal jacket for a lot of years and stayed drier than I ever had.

While what is left of the smock (it delaminated totally),  still fits a "same" sized replacement from the same supplier,  wouldn't even go over my shoulders let alone my gut!  Complained to the companies rep,  who just happened to be my little brother,  only to be told that it wasn't worth making gear for fat old gets because we wore them until they died.  The young fit bloke got the new colour every season and were much more profitable!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/5/2020 at 9:34 AM, climenuts said:

If I'm going out for extended cruises all winter without a dodger or bimini

Oh, brrr without a dodger.  Spend the money for good foulies on a long dodger you can huddle under!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/26/2020 at 11:04 PM, TUBBY said:

The smock trick really works.  Used a light dingy smock under an ageing coastal jacket for a lot of years and stayed drier than I ever had

Good to know, cause that’s what I plan to do! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the plan of multiple waterproof layers.  I use musto oversized foulie pants and a gill waterproof mid layer and then my base layer. Nice waterproof boots are also a plus.  I use the Zhik ocean boots.  For a jacket, again multiple waterproof layers work best here.  I just use a coastal gill jacket with a water proof or water resistant mid layer.  Overall, for the money Gill works well as you can usually find them on sale at good prices.  Then when they no longer are waterproof you can donate them and not be out a lot of hard earned dough. Musto seems like the best, but very spendy.  Good luck, but don’t rely on one layer to keep you dry. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/26/2020 at 12:47 PM, Zonker said:

Oh, brrr without a dodger.  Spend the money for good foulies on a long dodger you can huddle under!

Not much room between the boom and the cabintop on this little boat. Will suffer for a few more years and look at a boat upgrade.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2020 at 6:57 PM, Rain Man said:

I have been using the Plastimo XM Offshore line of breatheable foul weather gear for a number of years now.  I used them mostly for coastal races with a couple of offshore races mixed in.  Excellent value for the price,  durable, quite breatheable, and I am about to order a set for my wife who has ancient Henri-Lloyd gear and is due for an update.  The prime directive in sailing is that your wife must have the best foul weather gear on the boat.

This line of gear is almost never seen in stores but most chandlers can order them.  

14_20326-sunfast3600.jpg

FYI, just got a quote on a set of these.  $550 CAD for both jacket and pants.  I don't think you can even come close that for a decent set of foulies.  Pretty easy to spend $2K on foul weather gear and not like them as much as these.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting wet is uncomfortable: INCONVENIENT.

Falling overboard and drowning because the foul weather gear and boots is DANGEROUS.

I continue to be amazed how rare it is that foul weather gear has any buoyancy whatsoever. As we all KNOW, inflatables are dangerous, so the common practice of no flotation in the gear backed up by unreliable inflatables is pretty darn lame.

@The Q mentioned https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-floatation-flotation-immersion-fishing/dp/B07VGJX952/ref=sr_1_2?crid=IUZFTZXDGOIE&dchild=1&keywords=fladen+suit&qid=1602140054&sprefix=fladen+suit%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-2

This gear seems sensible. Experiences?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, carcrash said:

Getting wet is uncomfortable: INCONVENIENT.

Falling overboard and drowning because the foul weather gear and boots is DANGEROUS.

I continue to be amazed how rare it is that foul weather gear has any buoyancy whatsoever. As we all KNOW, inflatables are dangerous, so the common practice of no flotation in the gear backed up by unreliable inflatables is pretty darn lame.

@The Q mentioned https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-floatation-flotation-immersion-fishing/dp/B07VGJX952/ref=sr_1_2?crid=IUZFTZXDGOIE&dchild=1&keywords=fladen+suit&qid=1602140054&sprefix=fladen+suit%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-2

This gear seems sensible. Experiences?

Mustang has some float gear. I've got a pair of their float ocean pants. Even on the ocean outside SF, they are HOT.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Mustang has some float gear. I've got a pair of their float ocean pants. Even on the ocean outside SF, they are HOT.

Bummer. That was what I was afraid of.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, carcrash said:

 

I continue to be amazed how rare it is that foul weather gear has any buoyancy whatsoever. As we all KNOW, inflatables are dangerous, so the common practice of no flotation in the gear backed up by unreliable inflatables is pretty darn lame.

My first Safety at Sea course I brought an old Plastimo jacket with some floatation in it.  When we were instructed to go into the pool with our foul weather gear on (the intent being to show us how hard it is to swim in wet gear) I jumped in with it on.  It was amazing how easily I floated and was able to swim.  The jacket had maybe 20-30N of soft bouyancy foam in a circle below the shoulders, you could hardly notice it was there, but it made a huge difference.

Then we went in with our inflatables on.  After it inflated I thought I was going to pass out because the inflatable was so tight on my neck I couldn't breathe until I was able to find the breathing tube and let some air out.  Swimming with it on was damn near impossible.  They taught us to do the backstroke with the inflatable on - yeah, that's gonna be great if you are trying to get to a liferaft in seas. 

If I could find another jacket like that Plastimo I would buy it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, carcrash said:

Getting wet is uncomfortable: INCONVENIENT.

Falling overboard and drowning because the foul weather gear and boots is DANGEROUS.

I continue to be amazed how rare it is that foul weather gear has any buoyancy whatsoever. As we all KNOW, inflatables are dangerous, so the common practice of no flotation in the gear backed up by unreliable inflatables is pretty darn lame.

@The Q mentioned https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-floatation-flotation-immersion-fishing/dp/B07VGJX952/ref=sr_1_2?crid=IUZFTZXDGOIE&dchild=1&keywords=fladen+suit&qid=1602140054&sprefix=fladen+suit%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-2

This gear seems sensible. Experiences?

Just checked this stuff out on a local chandlery's website, they added a remark to the description saying you will still need to wear a proper lifejacket, because these suits do provide flotation, but will not turn you on your back should you become incapacitated - say a knock to the head from the boom or just the cold shock taking hold of you.

Definitely a point to consider.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/30/2020 at 8:04 PM, Rain Man said:

My first Safety at Sea course I brought an old Plastimo jacket with some floatation in it.  When we were instructed to go into the pool with our foul weather gear on (the intent being to show us how hard it is to swim in wet gear) I jumped in with it on.  It was amazing how easily I floated and was able to swim.  The jacket had maybe 20-30N of soft bouyancy foam in a circle below the shoulders, you could hardly notice it was there, but it made a huge difference.

Then we went in with our inflatables on.  After it inflated I thought I was going to pass out because the inflatable was so tight on my neck I couldn't breathe until I was able to find the breathing tube and let some air out.  Swimming with it on was damn near impossible.  They taught us to do the backstroke with the inflatable on - yeah, that's gonna be great if you are trying to get to a liferaft in seas. 

If I could find another jacket like that Plastimo I would buy it.

Exactly. Those old "float coats" were in fact wonderful, even if the coast guard did not approve them. They were comfortable and flexible, so people wore them, even on the dock. They were very easy to swim in, so if you went over, you could be an active participant in the rescue. They were warm aboard, and they did keep one warm in the ocean, certainly far warmer than an approved PFD, especially an approved inflatable.

Now, all the ones I have found have much too much floatation, with too much, too thick foam. This makes them uncomfortable and hot.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/31/2020 at 1:35 AM, alphafb552 said:

Just checked this stuff out on a local chandlery's website, they added a remark to the description saying you will still need to wear a proper lifejacket, because these suits do provide flotation, but will not turn you on your back should you become incapacitated - say a knock to the head from the boom or just the cold shock taking hold of you.

Definitely a point to consider.

The old excuse of "roll you right side up if you are knocked out" is such a fringe corner case its not worth considering. If you are hit in the head by a boom and knocked out and tossed in the water, you are almost certainly dead. You were probably hit on the head in the first place because you could not move easily due to constraining safety gear!

Obviously, this is "in my not-so-humble opinion."

Consider the cases you think are important.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/29/2020 at 8:12 PM, Rain Man said:

FYI, just got a quote on a set of these.  $550 CAD for both jacket and pants.  I don't think you can even come close that for a decent set of foulies.  Pretty easy to spend $2K on foul weather gear and not like them as much as these.

These actually look quite interesting, especially for the price. My inshore gear is still in great shape, but my old Gil offshore set is dying. For the few days a year I need them, this seems a lot more logical than spending one to two grand!

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, carcrash said:

The old excuse of "roll you right side up if you are knocked out" is such a fringe corner case its not worth considering. If you are hit in the head by a boom and knocked out and tossed in the water, you are almost certainly dead. You were probably hit on the head in the first place because you could not move easily due to constraining safety gear!

Obviously, this is "in my not-so-humble opinion."

Consider the cases you think are important.

Do you stay floating on your back when you can't swim anymore? Whatever the reason may be?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/31/2020 at 4:14 AM, Somebody Else said:

Inflatables, to me, are to meet requirements only. As in, "I'm not going overboard but they're making me wear a PFD so it's going to be as unobtrusive as possible." 

I have multiple solid foam and inflatables of high quality and my favorite for features and comfort and safety is the Salus Coastal made in Canada.

That’s a swimmers jacket 

A good choice for situations that require  in the water mobility 

on a boat you need a selection of life jacket , including face up jackets in case things are looking bad 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/2/2020 at 5:49 PM, carcrash said:

The old excuse of "roll you right side up if you are knocked out" is such a fringe corner case its not worth considering. If you are hit in the head by a boom and knocked out and tossed in the water, you are almost certainly dead. You were probably hit on the head in the first place because you could not move easily due to constraining safety gear!

Obviously, this is "in my not-so-humble opinion."

Consider the cases you think are important.

I dunno,  You're opinion might need to be a little more humble. 

Two data points.  I've awakened under water twice in my career.  Once on a J-24 in the Nationals on an inadvertent jibe in strong breeze when I was standing and trimming kite, and I got smacked in the head with the boom and once off shore on the way to Hawaii when the pit blew the topper and dropped the 17' foot long spin pole on my head as I was heading toward the bow for a jibe.  Totally  cold cocked me and I slid under the life lines.  My own agility had little to doe with either of those.  

 Glad I had a face up jacket both times.  

 

BTW, when you wake up underwater, say three feet down, the stream of bubbles above you in the turquoise blue water is quite beautiful.  I can still feel the spot where the J-24 boom hit me,  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/30/2020 at 9:46 PM, carcrash said:

Getting wet is uncomfortable: INCONVENIENT.

Falling overboard and drowning because the foul weather gear and boots is DANGEROUS.

I continue to be amazed how rare it is that foul weather gear has any buoyancy whatsoever. As we all KNOW, inflatables are dangerous, so the common practice of no flotation in the gear backed up by unreliable inflatables is pretty darn lame.

@The Q mentioned https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-floatation-flotation-immersion-fishing/dp/B07VGJX952/ref=sr_1_2?crid=IUZFTZXDGOIE&dchild=1&keywords=fladen+suit&qid=1602140054&sprefix=fladen+suit%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-2

This gear seems sensible. Experiences?

that's why when sailing dragon i always put on my dinghy vest as soon as i put on my long-john. (boots are not so much of a problem since the problem is just how much water you are moving around. (water in water does not have a negative buoyancy effect))

at sea on bigger boat... any foul weather gear ->  proper buoyancy

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/31/2020 at 4:04 AM, Rain Man said:

My first Safety at Sea course I brought an old Plastimo jacket with some floatation in it.  When we were instructed to go into the pool with our foul weather gear on (the intent being to show us how hard it is to swim in wet gear) I jumped in with it on.  It was amazing how easily I floated and was able to swim.  The jacket had maybe 20-30N of soft bouyancy foam in a circle below the shoulders, you could hardly notice it was there, but it made a huge difference.

Then we went in with our inflatables on.  After it inflated I thought I was going to pass out because the inflatable was so tight on my neck I couldn't breathe until I was able to find the breathing tube and let some air out.  Swimming with it on was damn near impossible.  They taught us to do the backstroke with the inflatable on - yeah, that's gonna be great if you are trying to get to a liferaft in seas. 

If I could find another jacket like that Plastimo I would buy it.

my dinghy vest is 45N (i'm 70kg)...

less restriction in movement and buoyancy more or less in the right place.

extra: they keep your core warm when cold

downside: in summer you sweat like wearing an old line 7 suit...

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/7/2020 at 11:11 AM, daan62 said:

my dinghy vest is 45N (i'm 70kg)...

less restriction in movement and buoyancy more or less in the right place.

extra: they keep your core warm when cold

downside: in summer you sweat like wearing an old line 7 suit...

I’ve fallen in love with the Mustang Khimera. Not exactly cheap, but worth every dollar. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Monkey said:

I’ve fallen in love with the Mustang Khimera. Not exactly cheap, but worth every dollar. 

looks like a nice vest... 

i'm still using an old gull vest (high so you can also use it when in a trapeze.)

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/3/2020 at 12:33 PM, gewoon ik said:

Do you stay floating on your back when you can't swim anymore? Whatever the reason may be?

 

In the context of buoyant jacket and/or foul weather gear pants, in the ocean: yes. Very stable, comfortable. Easy to swim. Easy to lie back and wait. Easy to move when it is time to get rescued. Much, MUCH easier than when wearing a highly buoyant device (inflatable or not) around the chest and neck. Spreading out the buoyancy, rather than concentrating it, is the key to being able to move, swim, wave, grab a line, climb into a raft, climb up a ladder, or drag yourself onto a swim step.

Again, my experience.

I agree that others have different experiences, and therefore different and valid opinions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/30/2020 at 8:04 PM, Rain Man said:

My first Safety at Sea course I brought an old Plastimo jacket with some floatation in it.  When we were instructed to go into the pool with our foul weather gear on (the intent being to show us how hard it is to swim in wet gear) I jumped in with it on.  It was amazing how easily I floated and was able to swim.  The jacket had maybe 20-30N of soft bouyancy foam in a circle below the shoulders, you could hardly notice it was there, but it made a huge difference.

Then we went in with our inflatables on.  After it inflated I thought I was going to pass out because the inflatable was so tight on my neck I couldn't breathe until I was able to find the breathing tube and let some air out.  Swimming with it on was damn near impossible.  They taught us to do the backstroke with the inflatable on - yeah, that's gonna be great if you are trying to get to a liferaft in seas. 

If I could find another jacket like that Plastimo I would buy it.

Another vote in this column.  I took my new inflatable and harness to the Safety-at-Sea pool and my old go-to Stearns vest-style life jacket.   I felt helpless in the inflatable and could swim and clamber into a raft and out of the pools with the vest.  The vest also keeps me warm and comfortable as it's cut almost like a down vest.  The best part is...I wear it.  

I really learned one thing in the SAS seminar:  Avoid life rafts at almost all costs.  Swimming into a capsized liferaft was just about the least fun thing I've ever done.  

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites