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Advice needed: Replacing sails on a Capri 14.2


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Somewhere on here, in an archived thread I can no longer find, was a comment or two about how the factory sails on the Catalina Capri 14.2 were improperly sized for each other, and/or, not very efficient.  

Something about the jib being too large and the main being too small (I'm not sure how you'd fit a larger main between the mast and boom) to work well together.  

So my question is, if I were buy new sails for my 14.2, what would the knowledgeable and helpful members of this board recommend, and where would you get them?  Catalina Direct has them, but I don't know if that's the best way to go or not.  They also put numbers on the sail, and I'm not sure why I'd want that if I'm not going to race.   They also call it an "Offshore Sail".  I'm not sure what effect that would have or if that's something I'd want.   

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/dinghies/sails/small-boat-mainsls/cp-142-main-ullman-offshore/

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/dinghies/sails/small-boat-headsls/cp-142-furling-jiboffshore-by-ullman/

I don't know enough about sails to order custom sizes that involve complicated mathematics, so it would be great if I could just get something made for better performance, or at least something new and crisp.  Mine are looking kind of old, soft and baggy, and there are some loose, purple threads coming off.  I'm pretty sure they're the originals from 27 years ago.  

OK, OK, I realize that having only sailed this boat twice and being very new to the sport, it's unlikely I'll notice the performance difference, but there's other reasons I'd like to upgrade.  For one thing, I HATE the colors.  They look like something from a Barbie Doll set.  It's embarrassing!  Call me a perfectionist, insecure, or just nuts, but I like white sails.  It's a cleaner look.  

I'd also like a jib with a larger window in it.  I can't see a thing through the tiny factory jib window.  Just clouds and sky, and I'm 6'4", so you'd think my view would be of the horizon and other boats, like I'd imagine it's supposed to be.  

 

I've got some rigging questions about the boat, but I'm going to post them separately so we don't get too far off topic.  

 

- W

 

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If you're not going to sail one design then it's up to you what you do. 

1. Talk to a sailmaker.

2. See if an etchels sail will fit. One a 22ft trailer sailer the E headsail fit perfectly and the main, one a third had been lopped off the bottom also fit well.

Why etchels, find a good racing fleet and you'll find owners with sheds full of near new sails. Why because new sails are the key to racing success. A good E sailor will have a new set for regattas, 2nd set for club racing, rinse, repeat.

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bGo to your local sailmaker and have a discussion. 

If you don't know a local sailmaker, ask other sailors who they trust.

If there are no local sailors with answers, start googling

 

I cannot emphasize this last one enough.

 

It is absolutely worth the time and effort to talk IN PERSON to your sailmaker. Let the person learn who you are and what you are actually going to do with your sails so the sailmaker can use his / her years of sailing experience to set you up to be happiest. 

and...getting advice from ANYBODY requires you be honest and open. 

lousy analogy to try to make my point:

If you don't tell your shrink about your fear of job interviews, the shrink cannot helo you to have a successful jo interview. 

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I apologize if it seems like I am constantly harping in your threads.

6 hours ago, Winston29 said:

Somewhere on here, in an archived thread I can no longer find, was a comment or two about how the factory sails on the Catalina Capri 14.2 were improperly sized for each other, and/or, not very efficient.  

Something about the jib being too large and the main being too small (I'm not sure how you'd fit a larger main between the mast and boom) to work well together.  

So my question is, if I were buy new sails for my 14.2, what would the knowledgeable and helpful members of this board recommend, and where would you get them?  Catalina Direct has them, but I don't know if that's the best way to go or not.  They also put numbers on the sail, and I'm not sure why I'd want that if I'm not going to race.   They also call it an "Offshore Sail".  I'm not sure what effect that would have or if that's something I'd want.   

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/dinghies/sails/small-boat-mainsls/cp-142-main-ullman-offshore/

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/dinghies/sails/small-boat-headsls/cp-142-furling-jiboffshore-by-ullman/

I don't know enough about sails to order custom sizes that involve complicated mathematics, so it would be great if I could just get something made for better performance, or at least something new and crisp.  Mine are looking kind of old, soft and baggy, and there are some loose, purple threads coming off.  I'm pretty sure they're the originals from 27 years ago.  

OK, OK, I realize that having only sailed this boat twice and being very new to the sport, it's unlikely I'll notice the performance difference, but there's other reasons I'd like to upgrade.  For one thing, I HATE the colors.  They look like something from a Barbie Doll set.  It's embarrassing!  Call me a perfectionist, insecure, or just nuts, but I like white sails.  It's a cleaner look.  

I'd also like a jib with a larger window in it.  I can't see a thing through the tiny factory jib window.  Just clouds and sky, and I'm 6'4", so you'd think my view would be of the horizon and other boats, like I'd imagine it's supposed to be.  

 

I've got some rigging questions about the boat, but I'm going to post them separately so we don't get too far off topic.  

 

- W

 

 

First, decide what you want. More performance is good, a boat that gets up and goes is fun.

Also, you don't need to be a racer to enjoy having better sails. No sailors enjoys a boat that heels when it should accelerate, that generates odd helm forces, that feels like it's dragging a bucket trying to go upwind, that becomes unreasonably difficult to control as the wind strength builds. All these things occur with blow-out sails.

Your sails might or might not be blown out. But you certainly can do better than OEM rags even if they were new. The question is of course money.

As it happens, I just spent part of my weekend working up a proposal for bid for new sails for a sailing program which uses Oday Javelins. The OEM sails were crap, and the replacement sails (to a custom design) we got in 2013 were slimed by Hurricane Florence. Plus we got more boats and just plain need more sails.

I'd suggest not considering Catalina replacement sails. They will be the same underweight cloth, ill-shaped, tentmaker's apprentice concoction that you have now, only with less years on them.

The sails we got in 2013 had full-length top battens, once a novelty in dinghy sails, now a standard. The roach (the curved area along the aft edge) was modest, and some members of the program have been hinting we should get square-top mainsails like they now sell for 420s. So my new proposal has a top batten about 30 percent longer for about 10% more total sail area. We also have reef points and a window in the jib.

Sail windows, especially in a jib, are well worth having if you avoid even one collision during the life of the sail.

We also want longevity (these boats get sailed 60~70 times a year) so the cloth weight is quite a bit more than usual in dinghy sails.

It shouldn't be difficult to come up with ideas for how you'd like your boat to sail better, even if you just got it.

Definitely talk to a sailmaker and tell him what you want. Be prepared for sticker shock though.

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I apologize if it seems like I am constantly harping in your threads.

FB- Doug

Actually, that's never been my feeling at all.  I always appreciate and look forward to your knowledgable and helpful replies.  Like this one.  

 

As always, thanks for your help..  

 

-W

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I'd suggest not considering Catalina replacement sails. They will be the same underweight cloth, ill-shaped, tentmaker's apprentice concoction that you have now, only with less years on them.

 

Good point.  I found this company, but when I click the links to the sails for my boat, I get a message saying "We are unable to build this product at this time, please check back later".   Crud.  

I'll have to look into Hanks vs Luff Wire and see what that's all about.  

https://www.slosailandcanvas.com/capri-14-2-race-sails-set/

 

If $1,200 is what you consider "sticker shock", that's about what I expected and I'm not overly concerned.  Double that, and I might take issue.  

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Dunno why I didn't put in the diagram

Here is the 2013 mainsail, which pretty much follows the same profile/dimensions as the OEM mainsail

832470937_JavelinSail2103.thumb.png.bdd9f4455c61e6a36c92f458faecdf3a.png

 

Now here's my new proposal. The luff is ~ 2" shorter so the boom can sit higher (these boats have a sliding gooseneck), it has about 10% more total sail area, the reefed area is the same as the reefed area of the 2013 mains. The top batten is angled flatter than sailmakers like it, so that the sail can be rolled up with it left in place. The jib is the same profile/dimensions as the 2013 and OEM jibs. All are made of 5.5oz plain weave Dacron.

1211380637_JavelinSail2019dsk.jpg.b05eb50939c24ee35629d292c625f59b.jpg

The Oday Javelin is a good bit heavier than your Capri, I believe. They also have a ballasted centerboard. We have seven in the program.

FB- Doug

 

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I would not be so quick to dismiss the manufacturer's sails from consideration.  The Capri 14.2 has a pretty standard rig setup, with minimal opportunities to really drive a lot of performance out of the sail.  The original design did a pretty good job of powering the boat and it was a decent performer for a small daysailer.  So there isn't much reason to get too fancy with sail shapes.   Consider that your original sails have lasted 25+ years and are still serviceable, even if they may not be in top shape.  A good local sailmaker will be able to create a terrific sail for you, no doubt, but the Catalina supplied sails, if they are still built to the original plans, should be more than enough to keep you happy.  I say this because a local sailmaker will need to design the sails and build a single set.  It may be a lot more expensive than buying a set off the shelf from the manufacturer.  Some OEM's charge a LOT for their sales, but others are quite reasonable.  So I'd check the price of the OEM sails, and talk to a local sailmaker.  If your local guy has experience in small boat sails and wants the business enough to offer a decent price, great!  But if not, I wouldn't hesitate to order a set from Catalina.  I think you will find that they will work well and you will have a notable improvement in your performance from your 25 year old set.    As for the "offshore" version....I think that is marketing hype.  I have yet to meet the person that would classify the Capri 14.2 as an 'offshore' boat. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I went ahead and ordered a set from SLO Sail &  Canvass in San Luis Obispo, Ca.  They're cut to the original specs, so no performance upgrades, but it will be nice to have all new sailcloth on the boat.  Should compliment my new running and standing rigging quite nicely. :)  

https://www.slosailandcanvas.com/capri-14-2-white-daysailing-sails-set/

I was told that the four digits from the hull number, in this case 3958, would be placed on the sail so they match the boat.  

It's going to be a couple of months before I see them, though.  Apparently it's hard to find good sail makers these days, so they're a little backlogged.  

 

Thanks again for the helpful input.  

 

W

fullsizeoutput_b05.jpeg

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20 hours ago, Winston29 said:

I went ahead and ordered a set from SLO Sail &  Canvass in San Luis Obispo, Ca.  They're cut to the original specs, so no performance upgrades, but it will be nice to have all new sailcloth on the boat.  Should compliment my new running and standing rigging quite nicely. :)  

Excellent choice.

Keeping it to the original specs will help you sell it when the time comes.

Good sailing!

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On 6/21/2019 at 10:16 AM, Winston29 said:

 

It's going to be a couple of months before I see them, though.  Apparently it's hard to find good sail makers these days, so they're a little backlogged.  

 

 

And nice to support a local loft that is still producing small boat sails locally!

Enjoy your boat!

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13 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

And nice to support a local loft that is still producing small boat sails locally!

Enjoy your boat!

Absolutely!  I always like supporting local business (in this case "local" being California), rather than order something from overseas.  

They did a great job on my jib snorkel.  

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  • 11 months later...

Well, I should probably feel bad resurrecting an old thread

Here are the new Oday Javelin sails I mentioned earlier

image.jpeg.b44ab0e1bc4f97b7fe14a922403163d7.jpeg

.

image.jpeg.f29ff256b0fbe7092f208e6b2de4476b.jpeg

.

We bought three sets at once, got a discount approx $800 M+J and no, they're not cheap-ass cloth they are 6 1/4 oz for longevity. There is a little washboarding and hard spots but I asked for the battens to be that flat and I think that's part of the hard-spot problem.

The Oday Javelin is NOT a fast boat. However these sails make it fun and responsive, it accelerates in gusts with no bad habits, pointing is good, helm seems to balance the same.

The bear insignia is copied from our town's emblem. Yes it was a PITA to cut out and lay in place but worth it IMHO

FB- Doug

 

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, I should probably feel bad resurrecting an old thread

Here are the new Oday Javelin sails I mentioned earlier

image.jpeg.b44ab0e1bc4f97b7fe14a922403163d7.jpeg

.

image.jpeg.f29ff256b0fbe7092f208e6b2de4476b.jpeg

.

We bought three sets at once, got a discount approx $800 M+J and no, they're not cheap-ass cloth they are 6 1/4 oz for longevity. There is a little washboarding and hard spots but I asked for the battens to be that flat and I think that's part of the hard-spot problem.

The Oday Javelin is NOT a fast boat. However these sails make it fun and responsive, it accelerates in gusts with no bad habits, pointing is good, helm seems to balance the same.

The bear insignia is copied from our town's emblem. Yes it was a PITA to cut out and lay in place but worth it IMHO

FB- Doug

 

Are those Tasker sails?

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Rolly Tasker, yes. They came to us from National Sail Supply whom I highly recommend, this is the second bunch of sails we've bought from them

FB- Doug

That brand has certainly endured. The boomerang logo on the clew brings back very old memories!

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