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Enkes AR8 Winch Tear Down


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I have an Enkes AR8 winch mounted on the mast. I am trying to remove it but have run into a snag. Was able to remove the circle clip and remove the cover and the pawls. But I see no way of removing the drum. Have searched high and low for information but am coming up empty. Anyone out there have any info on this particular winch?

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Sounds like a Lewmar the same question was asked about recently somewhere.

I suspect you will have to dismount it because there is a snap ring or spiro lock or similar on the base of the spindle.

image.png.83d91c12bb0a8688210233a2cf1f0c7c.png

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I did see a.slot on the base of the winch. Perhaps that allows access to what you're talking about. Bad thing is I have remove the drum to get at the bolts holding it to the mast.

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15 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

There may be something useful to you here: http://www.l-36.com/read_pdf.php?file=manuals5/Enkes.Winches

 

Thank you for the link, Ishmael. Nothing really there in tearing this little bugger down. As SJB mentioned I did look at the tear down instructions for the Lewmar #7, although helpful there are no specific instructions for removing a "stuck" drum. I did try the #19 alignment tool but that didn't work. I'll keep fooling around. I am sure I'll get to the bottom of this. I am leading all of the lines to the cockpit to make singlehanding easier. I wanted to use this on the starboard cabin top. I did get a Lewmar 7 to go on the portside cabintop for halyards and reefing lines. 

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Thank goodness for polite Canadians. I sent an email to Holland Marine-Products located in Mississauga Ontario and did receive a reply from them regarding this winch. Was told to rotate and pull at the same time. Holy Moly, they also have spare parts for these as well. I also have the Enkes 18's for headsail sheeting. Seem to be a fairly nice 2 speed. 

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No biggie. I hope that this is the solution. Also if you ever come across someone needing pawls, springs, and top covers for Enkes these folks have those in stock. Kind of pricey but less expensive than buying a new winch www.hollandmarine.com email is info@hollandmarine.com. 

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  It is common for an ignored winch to form "ridges' of congealed grease above/within the bearings. These will resist the efforts to remove the drum - sometimes quite well. Liberal flushing and spinning drum with WD40 will assist in dissolving dried up grease. Be prepared for the drum to 'jump' off the spindletho and bearings will go wherever the want to.

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Thank You longy. I did notice that mud daubers had moved in.

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Hope they can be of help. I forgot to say that I have no monetary interest with these folks. Just like to spread good news about exceptional customer service.

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7 minutes ago, welder said:

I have a AR10 in my basement once you take the snap ring off the drum will come off its probably gunked up .the snap ring under the base is just to remove the center shaft . The slot in the base is a water drain

Thanks @welder. Appreciate the instructions. Would a river be the best way to seal the holes on the mast?

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A river rivet, damn auto correct got me too,   would work just fine. Makes it look like it's attaching some secret and very important stuff on the inside of the mast 

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Well, I was able to get the stinkin' drum off after a liberal douching with WD-40. Now the stinkin' thing has a stainless ring at the top so I can't get the bearings off. Anyone want a very old winch? I've already purchased a Lewmar 7 to replace it. Thanks again for all of the advice. 

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On 6/17/2019 at 10:48 AM, woahboy said:

Thank goodness for polite Canadians. I sent an email to Holland Marine-Products located in Mississauga Ontario and did receive a reply from them regarding this winch. Was told to rotate and pull at the same time. Holy Moly, they also have spare parts for these as well. I also have the Enkes 18's for headsail sheeting. Seem to be a fairly nice 2 speed. 

holland Marine has a lot of stuff.

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I agree. Are you in their neck of the woods? Went through there a few times with my dad years ago 

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2 hours ago, woahboy said:

Well, I was able to get the stinkin' drum off after a liberal douching with WD-40. Now the stinkin' thing has a stainless ring at the top so I can't get the bearings off. Anyone want a very old winch? I've already purchased a Lewmar 7 to replace it. Thanks again for all of the advice. 

That is probably a Spiroloc - like a flat key ring. Get a thin blade in and you should be able to unwind it over the shaft.

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Thanks @SloopJohnB. Once I got rid of the mud dauber nest I see what you're talking about. Does it sound on threads in the center part of the winch?

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5 hours ago, woahboy said:

Thanks @SloopJohnB. Once I got rid of the mud dauber nest I see what you're talking about. Does it sound on threads in the center part of the winch?

???

No idea what you mean.

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

???

No idea what you mean.

Sorry. Is this ring like the ones at the top of the winch?

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I would imagine so - spirolocks are very common on winches

Full disclosure - Enkes are one of the few winches I've never stripped.

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@SloopJonB Y'all know more than me but they seem to be built fairly sturdy. The winch is getting a good mineral spirits soak so I can better see that stinkin' ring. Thanks again SJB.

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Finally got the little bugger apart. I am doing the main winches as well. I'm very happy with the quality of these. 

winches.jpg

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Those look extremely high quality - stainless caged bearings, not plastic cages?

I'd lightly polish the spindles (the main shaft the bearings run on) with 1000 grit or finer and WD40.

I'd lube everything (pawls included) with white lithium grease - coat everything quite heavily as you reassemble them, rotate them and backwind them a number of times then pop the drums off and wipe off any squeeze out - they will now be perfectly lubed.

If you use white lithium - the kind with a cream colour and a texture like stiff yogurt - you can ignore the conventional wisdom of oil only on pawls. The lithium grease is very light and not at all sticky - which is the reason for not greasing pawls. It does not create stiction but clings much better than oil. They will run much more quietly as well - tic tic tic instead of clink clink clink

The next time you strip your winches they will rinse clean in solvent - no brushing or scraping required.

One tip for the future - strip winches one at a time - then you have a sample to refer to when you forget which way something goes. ;)

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Those look extremely high quality - stainless caged bearings, not plastic cages?

I'd lightly polish the spindles (the main shaft the bearings run on) with 1000 grit or finer and WD40.

I'd lube everything (pawls included) with white lithium grease - coat everything quite heavily as you reassemble them, rotate them and backwind them a number of times then pop the drums off and wipe off any squeeze out - they will now be perfectly lubed.

If you use white lithium - the kind with a cream colour and a texture like stiff yogurt - you can ignore the conventional wisdom of oil only on pawls. The lithium grease is very light and not at all sticky - which is the reason for not greasing pawls. It does not create stiction but clings much better than oil. They will run much more quietly as well - tic tic tic instead of clink clink clink

The next time you strip your winches they will rinse clean in solvent - no brushing or scraping required.

One tip for the future - strip winches one at a time - then you have a sample to refer to when you forget which way something goes. ;)

I have an old boat with ten Enkes winches, all work well but unfortunately don’t self tail.

I bought some of those Wincher rings, the biggest ones don’t fit on the four sheet winches, even though they are supposed to, anyone have any hints apart from soaking them in boiling water and using detergent?

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You can ask at info@nauticshop.nl
They had ST conversion kits in the past for Enkes. But that is years and years ago. It would be a lucky hit if they still have them.
 

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18 hours ago, olaf hart said:

I have an old boat with ten Enkes winches, all work well but unfortunately don’t self tail.

I bought some of those Wincher rings, the biggest ones don’t fit on the four sheet winches, even though they are supposed to, anyone have any hints apart from soaking them in boiling water and using detergent?

Also might try https://hollandmarine.com They're up in Ontario. Very friendly, and helpful.

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18 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Those look extremely high quality - stainless caged bearings, not plastic cages?

I'd lightly polish the spindles (the main shaft the bearings run on) with 1000 grit or finer and WD40.

I'd lube everything (pawls included) with white lithium grease - coat everything quite heavily as you reassemble them, rotate them and backwind them a number of times then pop the drums off and wipe off any squeeze out - they will now be perfectly lubed.

If you use white lithium - the kind with a cream colour and a texture like stiff yogurt - you can ignore the conventional wisdom of oil only on pawls. The lithium grease is very light and not at all sticky - which is the reason for not greasing pawls. It does not create stiction but clings much better than oil. They will run much more quietly as well - tic tic tic instead of clink clink clink

The next time you strip your winches they will rinse clean in solvent - no brushing or scraping required.

One tip for the future - strip winches one at a time - then you have a sample to refer to when you forget which way something goes. ;)

@SloopJonBI see there is spray and tubed white lithium grease. Should I go with the tube?

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5 minutes ago, woahboy said:

@SloopJonBI see there is spray and tubed white lithium grease. Should I go with the tube?

Tube - it you can't get a cup. I've used Gunk brand which comes in a cup like for sour cream. Auto parts stores usually have it.

I prefer being able to scoop it up with my fingertip to squeezing a tube with greasy hands.

I think sprayable would be inadequate.

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10 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Tube - it you can't get a cup. I've used Gunk brand which comes in a cup like for sour cream. Auto parts stores usually have it.

I prefer being able to scoop it up with my fingertip to squeezing a tube with greasy hands.

I think sprayable would be inadequate.

Thanks again. The amount of knowledge here is great!

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Got new winch pads as well. Old ones look to have about a 5 degree angle on the top. New ones are flat. Could run into override problems with the new ones. @SloopJonB Couldn't find 1000 grit sandpaper buy I do have 0000 steel wool. Will that work?

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It will but be sure to get every last little scrap of it off or you will have a boat with chicken pox - little red specks everywhere.

A better choice would be a Scotch-Brite pad - a green kitchen scrubber.

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1 hour ago, woahboy said:

Got new winch pads as well. Old ones look to have about a 5 degree angle on the top. New ones are flat. Could run into override problems with the new ones. @SloopJonB Couldn't find 1000 grit sandpaper buy I do have 0000 steel wool. Will that work?

You can find finer grits of sandpaper at typical auto parts stores in their paint area. Alternate sources are hobby shops or automotive paint suppliers.

Judicious use of a belt sander can angle the winch pads.

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16 minutes ago, SpongeDeckSquareFoil said:

You can find finer grits of sandpaper at typical auto parts stores in their paint area. Alternate sources are hobby shops or automotive paint suppliers.

Judicious use of a belt sander can angle the winch pads.

@SpongeDeckSquareFoilUnfortunately I don't have a belt sander. Would this 5 degrees cause a problem?

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25 minutes ago, SpongeDeckSquareFoil said:

You can find finer grits of sandpaper at typical auto parts stores in their paint area. Alternate sources are hobby shops or automotive paint suppliers.

Judicious use of a belt sander can angle the winch pads.

@SpongeDeckSquareFoilUnfortunately I don't have a belt sander. Would this 5 degrees cause a problem?

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Good news. It was an optical allusion. WooHoo.

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Any hints on getting split rings back on?

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Split 'em.

Open up one end, set it into the groove, and start working your way around the ring. It's like putting a bicycle tire bead over the rim except you've got an end to start with.

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@IStream Than You. I'll give that a try. If all else fails I can buy a tool for $14. Just want to bend them up.

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The technique I described works better for a Spirolock (right) than a snap ring (left), which tend to be very stiff. If you're dealing with snap rings, a tool can be gotten cheap at any auto parts store and is worth getting.

002-piston-lock-types-installation-techniques.jpg?t=1475023575990&width=640&name=002-piston-lock-types-installation-techniques.jpg

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

The technique I described works better for a Spirolock (right) than a snap ring (left), which tend to be very stiff. If you're dealing with snap rings, a tool can be gotten cheap at any auto parts store and is worth getting.

002-piston-lock-types-installation-techniques.jpg?t=1475023575990&width=640&name=002-piston-lock-types-installation-techniques.jpg

@IStream I have the spinlocks. I'll give your technique a shot. Thank You

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@IStream. Got it to work on the larger winches but I can't stretch the ring enough to get it on the smaller winch. Oh well, I bought a used Lewmar #7 that I am going to mount on top of the deck house for halyards and reefing. Thank You again.

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Gave up on the small winch but the primaries are cleaned, lubed, and I got new winch pads.BC5C9692-C28B-477A-AD66-5C968C5727B6.jpeg.bf7b6538f8c55dfa528f0f3f6544ae28.jpeg

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3 hours ago, IStream said:

Nice.

I've got that same knife. Careful with the tip, the last 1mm of mine snapped off with only *very* minor abuse.

Holy Moly. Thanks for the heads up. Took a bit of fiddling around to get the Marlin spike closed.

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59 minutes ago, seabell said:

Don't you have to pull on the tether to release the lock?

Figured out it's the teacher loop you depress. 

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Sealant question for the experts. What should I use to seal the winch pads to the deck. 4200 or Life caulk? I do have butyl but was told no go. And on the pads I just used a good dousing with Watco teak oil.

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8 minutes ago, IStream said:

Why not the butyl?

@IStream Would I cover the base of the pad in butyl or just run a bead around the edge? When I took the pads off there was a lite coating of a clear sealant. Wasn’t hard to remove.

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I'd be most concerned about water getting down the fasteners and trapped next to wood without a way out. With butyl, I'd seal up the top of the fasteners as well as where they meet the deck but not much else. Alternatively, use a thinner, low strength polyurethane to seal the fastener channels and the whole base to deck joint of the pad.

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@IStream. So a bit of butyl around the screw heads and a bit around where they come out on the bottom of the pad? What do you consider a lite polyurethane?

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@SloopJonB. So a bead of butyl around the bottom of the pads should be sufficient, or cover the bottom of the pad completely? The pads were held down before with I believe 4200. Was very easy to clean up.

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I would still put a little butyl around the bolts, where they penetrate the deck. A little extra insurance never hurts

 

 

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24 minutes ago, py26129 said:

I would still put a little butyl around the bolts, where they penetrate the deck. A little extra insurance never hurts

 

 

Yep, I planned on doing that. I counter sunk the holes in the top of the winch pads. Now I'm totally confused. Can I use the butyl for all of the sealing or do I need to use 4200 as well? Sorry for being an idiot. LOL.

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2 hours ago, woahboy said:

@SloopJonB. So a bead of butyl around the bottom of the pads should be sufficient, or cover the bottom of the pad completely? The pads were held down before with I believe 4200. Was very easy to clean up.

I'd put a good bead around the bottom edge of the pads and also around the countersunk fastener holes.

I'd use 4200 for this - I'm not a fan of mixing sealants on the same piece.

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This is where you pick your poison.  I agree with not mixing the sealants but I would go butyl work the bolts and the bead.  I like that butyl stays sticky for a long time, so even if the winches  move a bit under load, in my book you stand a better chance of keeping the water out.

Im not trying to start a religious debate here, just stating my preference To each their own. Just pick a door

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@SloopJonB & @py26129. Thank you for both your suggestions. I already have the butyl so I pick door #1. Other than having rubbed Watco teak oil on the pads is there anything else I should use to treat them? 

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We’re you Shanhai’d or was this by choice?

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“You’re coming with us or the cat gets it”. That kind of thing? Couldn’t find the purple font.

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44 minutes ago, IStream said:

Sorry for being MIA, I'm on one of those godforsaken cruise ships Petri dishes with shitty internet. 

Edited for accuracy.

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