Jump to content

Recommended Posts

There is a Laser 2 for sale locally for $400. I know this boat is not being produced anymore and wondered if there is a source for parts. My interest is not great but just curious about parts availability and how much more difficult they are to rig vs a standard Laser. Can they be easily single-handed? Thanks

 

ps. I still really want a Raider 16.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mike J said:

There is a Laser 2 for sale locally for $400. I know this boat is not being produced anymore and wondered if there is a source for parts. My interest is not great but just curious about parts availability and how much more difficult they are to rig vs a standard Laser. Can they be easily single-handed? Thanks

 

ps. I still really want a Raider 16.

Yeah, but.......

Parts is parts. There isn't anything on a Laser 2 you shouldn't be able to replace or rebuild with a little enginuity.

1 hour ago, xonk1 said:

Buy a Raider. Life is short. Sail what you want.

^ truth ^

However that price difference..... more buck$ in pocket can help make life smoother. The biggest difference is in looks and capsize behavior. The Raider is an improvement in many ways, is more comfy, and is faster..... but unless you're sailing the two side-by-side you probably wouldn't notice.

FB- Doug

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Laser 2 is much more complicated than a standard Laser and takes quite a bit longer to rig, but like anything, you can shave down that time as you get used to how it all goes together. If you have the ability to store it with the mast up you can leave a lot of it together. For us, setup pre-regatta was probably around 30-45 minutes from completely de-rigged. From looking at various boats at regattas, the mast hardware changed a bit over the years but they were all pretty similar. If you plan to fly the spinnaker, the later boats with the deck spin chute in the deck is a pretty nice improvement over launching/retrieving into a turtle. Although it did make the boat a bit more bow heavy. For older boats there are plans online somewhere to build a surface deck mounted one out of PVC pipe and mesh fabric. 

A few people have modified them for easier single handing. I toyed with it some when we had ours, but never got up to flying the spinnaker by myself. There are a few threads on here from a long time ago that probably have some hints if you can find them. Maybe from the 2005-2007 time frame. From what I remember if you run the jib sheet straight through the jib clew ring without fixing it, and cleat the tails the jib ends up being somewhat self tacking which allows you to work the main, tiller, and trapeze. It was a handful. Stepping the mast by myself when it was windy was a bit challenging. 

It's a fun boat and I miss sailing it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Other than the fact each is a Sailboat, I see no similarities between a Laser II and a  Raider that would cause a person to sail one while looking for the other. 

They're both sloops. They both have daggerboards. They both are lacking one-design fleets, with a very few exceptions, in the US. They both can be rigged with spinnakers but often are not. They both don't have travelers. They both have hiking straps.

I could go on, but you're probably either getting the point or not going to get it.

I don't see one as a direct replacement for the other, but they're both fun. The Laser 2 would be worry free because it's cheap and easily replaceable, the Raider because it's tough and harder to crash.

Personally I'd take a Johnson 18 over either of them

FB- Doug

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason I would sail one while looking for the other is the one is readily available and the other is hard to find where I live.  I just want to get on the water.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Second Doug’s comment on the Johnson 18. I have had one for a year and it’s a great boat. We have done some rigging updates. One of the best ones that we did was get rid of the traveler and went with a bridle system and a square top main. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

They're both sloops. They both have daggerboards. They both are lacking one-design fleets, with a very few exceptions, in the US. They both can be rigged with spinnakers but often are not. They both don't have travelers. They both have hiking straps.

I could go on, but you're probably either getting the point or not going to get it.

I don't see one as a direct replacement for the other, but they're both fun. The Laser 2 would be worry free because it's cheap and easily replaceable, the Raider because it's tough and harder to crash.

Personally I'd take a Johnson 18 over either of them

FB- Doug

 

Raider does have an adjustable traveler. Also a new builder.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The L2 was far ahead of its time, but would obtaining parts be an issue? i would think that if you have decent skills you could find a way to make parts designed for other boats work...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, sailwriter said:

Raider does have an adjustable traveler. Also a new builder.

OK, sorry 'bout that one.

I remembered it having a bridle, which works great.....

It's not much like a Laser 2, really, but the point I was trying to make is that subbing one boat for another in the "I wanna" game doesn't have to follow a logical pattern

FB- Doug

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sailors logical? Not me. Outside the box.

You are correct if by traveler you mean a rigid one with a car. Us old guys call a traveler any adjustable side to side adjustable mainsheet/ boom adjustor. Flying Scott has a bridle, but fixed in the middle. I like an adjustable bridle that can also be loosened to be near the boom for light air and tightened in a blow for ease of allowing the block to fall to leeward.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Will the people promoting other boats please stop highjacking the thread? Start your own thread. 

The Laser 2 is a great boat that can had for super cheap. Nothing else comes close. You can still get parts. I recently bought battens (Fogh Marine, Canada) and a new carbon fibre tiller (Sailboats Direct, UK) and a new dolly from Dynamic Dollies.

Covers are available from quite a few manufacturers. 

Still haven’t spent a fraction of what it would cost to have another boat. 

IMHO here is no better bargain in dinghy sailing. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Any Laser II back in the day near Tampa Bay was "Shermanized." Ed Sherman knew how to reinforce weak parts within the rules to make the boats last on that big bay. His sons, Mark Mendelblatt and others had fun with the Laser II.

Oh, and I've raced them, and Melges 14 and Raider. Quite different dinghies.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

They are fun little boats.  IMHO,  a $400 laser 2 that gets you sailing next week is much preferable to any boat that either costs more than you can afford, or that you cannot easily locate or transport home.

The downside is that right after you bring it home, you will find a better boat at in the same price range. But that is just God toying with you.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike J they are a much under-rated boated and  a lot of fun even if you don't fly the spinnaker.  I know Bethwaite  didn't like his own design but its a great boat. There are a number of scout groups who love them and are starting to collect mini fleets here in NSW.

Just be careful if its an early series. They had a wooden internal frame under the mast and if it goes then the mast will go straight thru. We discovered the rot just before it got too weak. Not sure if/when  they sort it out.

Parts are just parts, nothing you can't sort out. I think the only weird part its the diamond spreader set up but that is doable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, toadboy65 said:

...    ...    ...

The downside is that right after you bring it home, you will find a better boat at in the same price range. But that is just God toying with you.

 

Has that happened to you, too? I thought it was just me

Hate to be shitful but if this happened to you, that makes me feel better !!

FB- Doug

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi  Mike  Not really sure on the years and it may depend on country of manufacture. I believe that ours is a very early Oz build, with the 1 piece mast and no spinnaker chute.

It is pretty easier to inspect. Go to the inspection hatches at the front of the cockpit (assuming they are there) open them up. if you reach around just under the mast seat(?) fitting, you should feel the structural support which should run from the deck to the keel along the forward peak of the cockpit. For ours it was wood with a dodgy layer of glass over the top and it was just flaking in my hand. Also there was a clear smell of wood rot.  

I can't find any good pics but this newer L2 below shows the Spin chute on the left and the hatch ion the right. You need to  check right in the middle.  behind the saddle support the hiking straps. We were able to replace the timber and she sails great. We did have a leader who was a wooden shipwright and could do amazing this with wood, This might be time to page someone like the Gouv.

 

5.gr.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I thought it was just me

It is the story of my life. Boats, cars, swords, whatever. The only way I can be absolutely sure of finding just what I am looking for is to buy something else.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...

Sailwriter said "Shermanized." Ed Sherman knew how to reinforce weak parts within the rules to make the boats last on that big bay"

I look after our club fleet and have one L2 which I've put many hours into.

I'd love to know what Sherman did.

On L2s in general:

1)I have found nothing on them that cannot easily be replaced.

2) only real problem we have had is the mast snapping like a carrot at the shroud bolt. Corrosion. Took it to the local aluminium welder, external sleeve welded. Been great for 2 years.

If you look at a boat sailed on salt water take the shroud bolt out (easy to do) and have a good poke around with a point. If it goes through either walk away or halve the price as you may have to sleeve and weld it like ours.

3) I have replaced all wire halyards with dyneema and clam cleats. Two in tandem on the jib. 6mm halyards as club members like halyards that are easy to pull.

4)Use plenty of Lube on all the moving bits.

5) All blocks on spi system must be changed for BB ones, or too much friction.

6) Changed vang to 6:1. Easy mod.

7) Easy singlehanded with main+jib upto about 10-12mph wind. Over that roll the jib around the forestay and sail it like a Contender. To make it work lift the dagger about a foot. This moves the centre of lateral resistance aft to compensate for the lack of jib. More load on rudder but it's no problem.

You can get the Spi up singlehanded but you have to heave to, set up the pole and guy, then bare off on a dead run, hoist the Spi and the reverse when finished. It's a bit of a pain. One member lashed an old Spi pole to the bow sticking about 4ft out and used an Feva asym. That worked much better.

It's a cheap, simple, fun, wet boat. Easy to repair and mod.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Hi Dart96,

Thanks for the rigging and handling tips! Not much info around on the L2.

There's a video someone posted on YouTube of repairing the stringers (link below) Did you ever see any similar repairs?

 

I

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Laser II is a fun little boat if you looking for a good afternoon on the water.  From what I understand, the later ones came with a spinnaker locker beneath the deck which made it easier to deploy and retrieve the spinnaker Always sailed one double handed, and I see they can be a little bit if a handful single handing, but fun.

$400 if the boat is in good shape, you can't go wrong

Link to post
Share on other sites

The hull form of a Laser2 is transitional between the Tasar era and 49' er era-  apropos, the difference is in the transitional behavior of the hull when moving between displacement and planing modes.  Modern 15 foot (ish) hulls do it without a jump in drag between 5 and 7 knots.   

A Laser2 in the right wind & waves can hit surprising numbers- in the 14kts of boatspeed range reaching.  Transitional or not, its a thoroughbred design that's been fast and exciting under different rigs.    

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure I agree with you.

Certianly the Laser ii is a progresion of the Tasar, and to some extent the 49er also had it's roots with the Tasar.

The Laser ii was very much Ian Bruce and Frank (Dad), taking what was a Medium Dribby hull, that became the Tasar and North American-ing it, and they did that exceptionally well, and as you say, it's a very fine hull and a great shape.   The round chine is a tell-tale sign of that!

WRT the 49er, from the Tasar, you went to the Prime's then to the B18's Mk1, 2 and finally all the way out to Mk3,c.   These hulls where the antithisis of Americanisation.

The run of B18 teens which culminated in the AAMI's, the Nokia's and Looney Tunes where un-abashed racing sluts!   Totally un-ashamed of what they were and why they where!   Even the modern 18teens can't compete with what happened then, the course record was set in 1991, and they are presently operating at 150% of that time.

The Laser ii hull is exceptional hull shape, especially in Nth America & European chop, river sailing and non planing but as you commented it will plan up-wind readily and it is stil one of only a hand full of modern 15fters (4-5-4.9m) boat that can do that, period!   Don't sell the boat short, 95% of all 15ft can't really plane upwind, the Laser ii CAN!   I think we hit +20 knts in the very early days back in the late 70's with the test boats in Australia, it's planning pedigree is un-queastionable.

The 49er comes from outright full bore hi end performance sailing and is not for the light hearted. It bites!    We had to dumb the 49er down, because unless we did, very few could sail it.   Now with time, with everyones level of skill up more than just a few notches boats like the Laser ii, the 29er and even the 49er are coming of age.

The final thing I take umbridge with you on is your comment "without a jump in drag".    What Dad called the "dynamically humpless hull".   Again, very very few of the modern boats have that trait.    I look at a lot of modern designs and go, "why would you do that"!?    There are a lot of moving pieces that need to go together to get that to happen.   Yes a Laser ii has some of those traits.   The most amazing boat to do that was the Prime mk3, mind blowing, 49er and 29er a notch or 2 down from that.

                   jB

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...