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Peterson 35 Ganbare Identification and Revival


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I have a chance of buying a Peterson 35 build after his one-tonner Ganbare ((?)see below) for quite the deal, considered shes on the verge of being part of the zombie fleet.
Full suit of sails in near new condition, running ancient Faryman V2 (what evs, wouldnt be my first engine swap..), solid decks, clean bilges, couple of little leaks in the toerail, apparently good stringers. So far so good. But heres the catch(es).

1. Do these old IOR girls make good cruising boats? Id be planning on being able to singlehand her, with furler, inner stay, autopilot and maybe a windvane, and generally simplifying the rig a bit (they seemed to have the need to bolt a winch to every available square inch of deck..)

2. i know my way around wood and solid glass boats, but i dont know the first thing about foam cores. I have no clue what manufacturer it is, i.e airex or what have you. i havent seen her out of the water yet, but i will before the sale. what do i look for? i know these boats were put under a lot of stress with their hydraulic backstays and their crews pushing for the limit, is there any way to tell if shes too tired to be safe? and no, there wont be a professional survey..

3. All the stays and shrouds are solid rod, whats the lifetime on that stuff? it sure looks pretty tough but im not so sure about the swages? couldnt find any info on that. rerigging this baby would sure hurt financially..

Heres an old ad for this very boat, cabintop and cockpit are pretty different from the original Ganbare, so im not totally sure it is what i think it is, the history is kinda murky. any info on that would be much appreciated!
https://www.usedvictoria.com/classif...erson_31193041

lookin forward to the feedback!
 
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That's a Don Martin build. He built a passel of them - 40 or 50 I think - in 3 variants - that's a Mark II which was by far the most common. It is an actual Ganbare hull - Cooper started building them right after Ganbare won the Worlds. Martin was his shop manager at the time and later took the moulds and started out on his own.

Great boats and make great cruising boats. He built them pretty well - solid hull and balsa deck IIRC - nothing too fancy except some of them got carried away with the Hardware Wars of the time like hydraulic everything. Rod rigging seems to last way beyond the recommended 10 years around here.

If you have the skills to restore it, buy it - for that price your money is in the lead keel

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Not truly a copy of Ganbare's hull.  More of a development.  Ganbare was 34 ft while these were 35.

The prototype if you will was built by Cooper for Vern Ruskin and was intended as a one-off.  Vern said Doug Peterson and his wife stayed at his house in West Van while it was being built.  During the build, Cooper asked Vern if he could use the hull as a plug  - thus was born the Cooper Ganbare 35.

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Definitely will need a survey unless you intend to leave her on the hook.  I doubt you will find any marina that will take her without insurance.

These boats are a handful downwind  with the kite up - more so with a wheel.  The plus of the wheel vs tiller is that a tiller steered P35 will almost rip your arms out of their sockets upwind.

I don't know if Farymann made a diesel of sufficient power to drive these things.  You probably would want something in the 25 hp range.

Price is reasonable, but I wouldn't consider it to be a great deal.  Okay, better than Clockwork Rocketship, the old Mull 3/4 Ton on CL at $3k - but that one is really gone.

Brigadoon was a similar MkII version in very good condition with a near new Kevlar inventory.  New paint job.  Nicely appointed interior and was listed at $17k a  few years ago.  Not sure what she sold for. 

When you say the sails are in "near new condition" - is that your description or the owners?  A lot of owners use that term to describe 20 year old sails that weren't used much - or that don't have a lot of wrinkles when you take them out of the bag.

There is a write up/review of the Peterson 35 in  Ferenc Mates book "Best Boats to Build or Buy"

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I raced with a cruiser in some day races in La Manzanilla, Mexico on a Ganbare 35 several years ago.  He and his wife were cruising down the coast from BC to Ecuador.  The boat seemed to meet their cruising needs.  Is it the same hull as Sitka, that was campaigned very successfully in the PNW in the '70s and '80s?

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Hi Sloop and 12, thanks, this is some great info.

3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

He built them pretty well - solid hull and balsa deck IIRC

The current owner says shes foam core all the way, and theres also a sample from when a previous owner put in an extra thru hull or something.

 

1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

I don't know if Farymann made a diesel of sufficient power to drive these things.  You probably would want something in the 25 hp range

The R30 has 20hp and it seems in okay condition. No parts to be had for it though..

1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

Price is reasonable, but I wouldn't consider it to be a great deal

Its an old ad, i just used it for the pictures, the new owner is a friend of a friend and the price is a lot better..

1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

When you say the sails are in "near new condition" - is that your description or the owners?  A lot of owners use that term to describe 20 year old sails that weren't used much - or that don't have a lot of wrinkles when you take them out of the bag.

Weeell ive seen the sails, theyre just regular dacron and probalby pretty old but they clearly havent seen much use, just been sitting in bags forever. Frankly a lot better than what i usually rock around with.. im not doing any competitive sailing, just want a fast roomy cruiser to zip around the coast with. The interior on her is nice, real good looking mahogany, and no water damage.

Even though theres a lift near by, the boat is on the central coast and i imagine getting a surveyer out here would cost about as much as the boat. Also i stay away from marinas as much as i can (or anywhere south of nanaimo for that matter) and usually keep my boat on a mooring or anchor. Ive always had a boat for the last six years, often lived on it, never had insurance, never gave me any trouble.

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1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

The plus of the wheel vs tiller is that a tiller steered P35 will almost rip your arms out of their sockets upwind.

but i suppose that could be made more manageable by reducing sail a bit, no?

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59 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

12 - I haven't seen the ad for Clockwork. Got a link?

Here ya go.  Figured you may be interested.

 Such a sorry state for such a  nice looking boat:

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rds/boa/d/delta-sailboat/6928430322.html

On the upside, if you don't have enough time to work on two boats, the ad says "i can maybe fix it as i know how to fix boat,s"

Then there's this little nugget "and come in 2nd in some world championships :rolleyes:

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15 minutes ago, batkinmok said:

Hi Sloop and 12, thanks, this is some great info.

The current owner says shes foam core all the way, and theres also a sample from when a previous owner put in an extra thru hull or something.

 

The R30 has 20hp and it seems in okay condition. No parts to be had for it though..

Its an old ad, i just used it for the pictures, the new owner is a friend of a friend and the price is a lot better..

Weeell ive seen the sails, theyre just regular dacron and probalby pretty old but they clearly havent seen much use, just been sitting in bags forever. Frankly a lot better than what i usually rock around with.. im not doing any competitive sailing, just want a fast roomy cruiser to zip around the coast with. The interior on her is nice, real good looking mahogany, and no water damage.

Even though theres a lift near by, the boat is on the central coast and i imagine getting a surveyer out here would cost about as much as the boat. Also i stay away from marinas as much as i can (or anywhere south of nanaimo for that matter) and usually keep my boat on a mooring or anchor. Ive always had a boat for the last six years, often lived on it, never had insurance, never gave me any trouble.

If you're on the hook, then there's probably no issue.

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The Crealock 37 we had a few  years ago came with a Faryman V2 diesel. They were originally an aircooled design and the one that came in our boat had plastic water jackets and was raw water cooled. Needless to day, it was junk and leaked oil and water our of every seam, though it did still start/run. $14k later, a Beta 35 wasn't a bad conversion. 

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I sailed both on Sitka and two 35's, Baggins and The Pretender (Bits and Pieces) BITD.  Sitka was quite a different boat with a more pronounced pinch in the stern.  She was a broach coach downwind in a breeze.  The 35's felt like a lot bigger boats both on deck and in interior volume - though maybe the fine joinery by John Timmerman on Sitka made the boat seems smaller inside.  Both types were great upwind boats.  If I had my choice I would take the 35 downwind.  

Sitka used to have pilot berths above the settee.  You had about 3 inches of breathing space above your face and rolling over required considerable contortions.  I was glad to see that John eliminated them.  He still owns Sitka BTW.

Bits and Pieces had a tiller (that you had to screw back onto the rudderpost regularly) and Baggins had a wheel.   I'd take the tiller over the wheel but you need two people on it reaching or downwind in breeze.  For a cruising boat just reduce sail and it will be fine.

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1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

Here ya go.  Figured you may be interested.

 Such a sorry state for such a  nice looking boat:

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rds/boa/d/delta-sailboat/6928430322.html

On the upside, if you don't have enough time to work on two boats, the ad says "i can maybe fix it as i know how to fix boat,s"

Then there's this little nugget "and come in 2nd in some world championships :rolleyes:

Cheers.

That guy can't even load an ad properly - it's not under sailboats on CL so my filtered view missed it.

Listed as 28' ?

He's obviously pretty clueless. I think that was posted a while back and everyone was trying to figure out what it was because of the listed length - the proportions are so good that a long shot doesn't really tell you what size it is - people were guessing 1/4 Tonner & 1/2 Tonner.

The "guy he's selling it for" needs to find a new broker. :D

It's made it upstream of the Fraser bridge so it may be too late for it.

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14 hours ago, view at the front said:

I was in awe of the success of that boat.

Sitka was built for the 3/4 ton worlds. And a Chaser 33 so not a Donny build. It was originally called "Gogama". Clockwork was a Mull 3/4 ton special build by Donny. I know - I was there for all of it. My owner/skipper (at the time) built a custom aluminum Mull 3/4 tonner in North Vancouver and I was there with the build. Believe me, I know all about of those 3/4 tonners. Raced on Clockwork for years in Tsawwassen YC. Clockwork (new) at the 3/4 ton worlds:   

004.jpg

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I raced many of the Peterson/Ganbare/Martin 35's. Won Straits and Swiftsure on Brigadoon. Raced on Prophecy, Baggin's (Straits 1st in Div. and second overall), Pretender etc, etc, etc They were the "the" boat for many years. The build is "okay" but never meant as a world cruiser. Very important to have a proper survey and proper surveyor. Not with the guy with a white cane and a seeing eye dog. Ferenc Mates book "Best Boats to Build or Buy" is a work of fiction IMHO. 

You also have to remember that when the 35's were built for IOR racing it has bow down trim because of it. Many had lead pigs forward the mast for measurement reasons. Many of them have taken the lead out. Still, they can be a handful in a hat full of wind. Over 18 and up but proper crew for racing or shorthanded cruising with the blade up - no biggie. 

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How does the 35 Ganbare compare to the Jeremy Rogers built Contessa 35?

Sailed on a few, ended up arse over tit as well a few times down wind with the big gear up.

Indeed, that big piece of wood in the back of the bus is character building. :lol:

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3 minutes ago, Laser1 said:

How does the 35 Ganbare compare to the Jeremy Rogers built Contessa 35?

Sailed on a few, ended up arse over tit as well a few times down wind with the big gear up.

Indeed, that big piece of wood in the back of the bus is character building. :lol:

I'd forgotten about the Contessa/Peterson 35. Funny, as there was one in our club for years. Hell of lot better build. The owner, who I know well, sailed it all over the place. Wasn't as fast as the Donny build but not by much. But what the hell or we talking about? Decent speed for our area and not being beaten with Wetsnail 32 or anything? It's a 40+ design. Get over it. Or talk to Bieker and your bank manager.  

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Ghallager, a Peterson 35, is alive and well on Cowichan Bay. We still race around the Gulf Islands from time to time. Great for cruising, we sail with a furling number 2 head sail. The tiller is hands off for the most part. Great boat.

image.jpeg

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Here's my thoughts on this process, not necessarily that boat.

Its a heap of shit that will eventually bleed you dry.

There is a reason why these old boats are coming to the market at apparently low prices, and why you are attracted to it. The lightbulb should go on when you start going over it realistically and add up what its going to cost. Everything wears out, you need to ascertain how much life it has left. As an example rod rigging can last a long time anecdotally but would you really want to cross rough water at night with the family on board without pulling the rig and getting it all reheaded at the bare minimum, even then i would be tempted to replace the lot. But then you discover the cost of the new rod is about what you paid for the boat, so you opt for wire and hello you need a new set of mast hound fittings too and of course the rigging screws need to be changed... See how it goes? You've got an ancient engine that may do the job but ideally it will need to be upgraded too, there goes another 4 grand for an el cheapo job with some ebay special because a new 30hp with all the bits will be 10k.....

Best use for a boat like this is to do nothing to it. load it with rum, chicks and an instagram account and fuck off to the islands- actually you should buy this boat :)

 

 

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On 7/12/2019 at 8:04 PM, 12 metre said:

Here ya go.  Figured you may be interested.

 Such a sorry state for such a  nice looking boat:

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rds/boa/d/delta-sailboat/6928430322.html

On the upside, if you don't have enough time to work on two boats, the ad says "i can maybe fix it as i know how to fix boat,s"

Then there's this little nugget "and come in 2nd in some world championships :rolleyes:

This place is great, so much information! Thanks guys!

Damn how have I not thought of this? Sell a complete junker for way too much money and then get paid fixing it. What a business model..

 

On 7/13/2019 at 12:46 PM, monsters inc said:

Ghallager, a Peterson 35, is alive and well on Cowichan Bay. We still race around the Gulf Islands from time to time. Great for cruising, we sail with a furling number 2 head sail. The tiller is hands off for the most part. Great boat.

image.jpeg

Thanks that's what I wanted to know!

23 hours ago, toad said:

Here's my thoughts on this process, not necessarily that boat.

Its a heap of shit that will eventually bleed you dry.

There is a reason why these old boats are coming to the market at apparently low prices, and why you are attracted to it. The lightbulb should go on when you start going over it realistically and add up what its going to cost. Everything wears out, you need to ascertain how much life it has left. As an example rod rigging can last a long time anecdotally but would you really want to cross rough water at night with the family on board without pulling the rig and getting it all reheaded at the bare minimum, even then i would be tempted to replace the lot. But then you discover the cost of the new rod is about what you paid for the boat, so you opt for wire and hello you need a new set of mast hound fittings too and of course the rigging screws need to be changed... See how it goes? You've got an ancient engine that may do the job but ideally it will need to be upgraded too, there goes another 4 grand for an el cheapo job with some ebay special because a new 30hp with all the bits will be 10k.....

Best use for a boat like this is to do nothing to it. load it with rum, chicks and an instagram account and fuck off to the islands- actually you should buy this boat :)

 

 

I like chicks and rum so I really wouldn't want the rig to fall on them either. I realize that to make the boat truly seaworthy everything will need an overhaul. The rod I can probably replace with wire for about the cost of the wire,  which is still bad enough, that's why I was wondering. Oh yeah and the fanciest galvi turnbuckles.. in general I can fabricate pretty much anything 'on the cheap' except complicated stuff like winches or easy locks. 

Not worried about the engine at all since there's lots of people around who are convinced that at 2500hrs they have to buy new, even though they can do twice that with just basic maintenance. I got my 4cyl Kubota for the cost of moving it from shelter island to port hardy. Great little motor.

 

What I really want to know, is there a way of telling issues in the foam core hull without a survey? I mean what does a surveyer look for? Or would they use xray and other fancy tools?

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If you cant justify a survey and are asking these kinds of non boatbuilding experience questions, you should probably not be boat shopping for fix er uppers in this size range. Harsh but true, I suspect the only reason you are sniffing around this is because you dont have much coin- even more reason to be careful.  My standard advice on the cheapies is look around for the very best example of the boat you are looking at and see if you can get the money to buy that one.

Regarding the foam, at lot of it will be on the reputation of the builder and what exact materials (foam) were used in construction.  would be far more interested in keel bolts and rudder stocks. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I sailed, with owner, John Barltrop on Perseverance in the late 80’s. He was a great organizer and he managed to talk two more Peterson owners into coming out to race. It was almost like one design racing. We never lost a race, probably due to John’s excellent knowledge of topographical wind shifts and bends. I’ve often wondered what became of her since John died. She was in Maple Bay but that was long ago. 

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Ganbare was strip planked wood by Carl Eichenlaub. Then he built Country Woman and Magic Twanger the same way for the 1974 1 Ton N.A.'s in St. Pete before the SORC. AFIK, everything after those were different designs & constructions.   

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  • 1 year later...

My father was the original owner of WAYLON, later named Blackheart. 

I know there was some contention over the years as to the make and model of Waylon, at one point it was registered as a 33' like Sitka. I've been assured she is a Pete 35, Ganbare. not a mkII. 

I found her a couple of years ago and am in the final stages of reviving her from the zombie fleet, she now is named Waylon once again.

I would love to hear stories of her earlier life, if anyone could comment. 

1Waylon.jpg

2Waylon.jpg

IMG-3496.jpg

IMG-3767.jpg

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Fantastic looking resto so far.

Definitely a Peterson 35 hull.  Deck and cabin definitely custom built.  Here is a blog from a previous owner who did a resto just 10 years ago. http://peterson35-blackheart.blogspot.com/2011/01/blackheart-peterson-35-salilboat.html

Doesn't really matter which variant the hull is.  Minor mods to the original Cooper Ganbare hull that gave rise to the Martin built Peterson 35 MkII and MkIII variants.  But I believe the MkII and MkIII share the same hull - only the deck and cabin differed. Several custom home builds were done from hull & deck purchased from Martin.  I can think of at least 2 possibly 3.  My guess is Waylon was purchased as a hull only from Martin.

Previous owners tried racing her for a couple of years but I think had a difficult time finding crew and seemed to give up on her.

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Anyone have any idea what happened to "INFLATION"? Built as a sister to "STINGER", she took 2nd in the SORC that year. Built by Eichenlaub out of aluminum, single spreader rig. Commissioned by a client from Hawaii, chartered for SORC by the local sailmaker & friends, raced in Hawaii after she got there for a couple of years, then went ??? IIRC sold to east coast??

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1 hour ago, sailonwaylon said:

1Waylon.jpg

2Waylon.jpg

IMG-3496.jpg

IMG-3767.jpg

I was on her in False Creek when she was being finished - the first time. I presume it was your dad who showed me around.

Fabulous build on a Martin hull - which was originally built by Coopers and sold as a Cooper/Ganbare. It was far and away the nicest boat built on one of those hulls.

Some here have claimed it was slightly different from Ganbare but I've never been convinced. Ganbare was said to be 34' and Martin called his a Peterson 35 but that doesn't mean much - the same hulls are often sold with a foot difference in "brochure length".

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54 minutes ago, longy said:

Anyone have any idea what happened to "INFLATION"? Built as a sister to "STINGER", she took 2nd in the SORC that year. Built by Eichenlaub out of aluminum, single spreader rig. Commissioned by a client from Hawaii, chartered for SORC by the local sailmaker & friends, raced in Hawaii after she got there for a couple of years, then went ??? IIRC sold to east coast??

I was told Inflation stayed on the east coast, but never saw her after the 75 SORC.  She was fast and very well sailed.  I was on Crocodile for the full circuit; we won the opener,but never touched her again.  As I recall, her crew pulled a bit of a horror show at the St Pete/Ft L after-race reception.  Class was tough that year: Stinger, Inflation, Country Woman, Rum Runner, Crocodile, Voodoo and a few others.

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19 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I was on her in False Creek when she was being finished - the first time. I presume it was your dad who showed me around.

Fabulous build on a Martin hull - which was originally built by Coopers and sold as a Cooper/Ganbare. It was far and away the nicest boat built on one of those hulls.

Some here have claimed it was slightly different from Ganbare but I've never been convinced. Ganbare was said to be 34' and Martin called his a Peterson 35 but that doesn't mean much - the same hulls are often sold with a foot difference in "brochure length".

Ganbare was a wooden boat built by Eichenlaub as a one off.  Since she had no claim to fame at that point, they wouldn't have made a mold from her and likely couldn't because she wasn't built to be a plug.  When Ganbare won the OTC in Italy, she sold and I believe has remained there since - or at least is there now.

Also, years ago I sailed for a while with the guy (Vern Ruskin), who had the first one built by Cooper.  Or rather he commissioned Doug to design her and he told me the story of Doug and his wife staying at his house in West Van for a few weeks during the build.  At some point either Forbes or Donny asked Vern if they could use Jolly Olly IV as a plug for a mold.  Vern agreed as he thought it would be great to have a bunch of competition.  So began the Cooper Ganbares.  Probably very similar to Ganbare, but more likely a development.

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Is this pic recent?

I saw her in West Van a few years ago near the end of a restoration - some rotted deck being replaced and so forth.

Did it deteriorate from that restoration to the zombie in this photo?

image.png.24c373b0f9e75f976e65f128f0cefde0.png

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4 hours ago, sailonwaylon said:

My father was the original owner of WAYLON, later named Blackheart. 

I know there was some contention over the years as to the make and model of Waylon, at one point it was registered as a 33' like Sitka. I've been assured she is a Pete 35, Ganbare. not a mkII. 

I found her a couple of years ago and am in the final stages of reviving her from the zombie fleet, she now is named Waylon once again.

I would love to hear stories of her earlier life, if anyone could comment. 

1Waylon.jpg

2Waylon.jpg

IMG-3496.jpg

IMG-3767.jpg

Wow, beautiful!

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The white pic looks to be after considerable sanding, which Blackheart needed.  I agree, by far the best looking of these boats, I love that coachroof.

 

The current gleaming paint and brightwork come out of Strait Marine.  Along with the no-fear-sized rudder that is now on her.  

 

Going to be a very nice boat.

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2 hours ago, Schnick said:

The white pic looks to be after considerable sanding, which Blackheart needed.  I agree, by far the best looking of these boats, I love that coachroof.

 

The current gleaming paint and brightwork come out of Strait Marine.  Along with the no-fear-sized rudder that is now on her.  

 

Going to be a very nice boat.

Schnick, 

That's right, the boat spent a considerable amount of time on the hard sanding. The bottom was taken back down to glass. It was a chemistry set under the waterline, 11 layers of paint over 3/16" of cole tar - Disgusting stuff!  The white pic is its return to the water for a quick dip to pull the rig.

Nothing but good things to say about straight marine from my end!   

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Is this pic recent?

I saw her in West Van a few years ago near the end of a restoration - some rotted deck being replaced and so forth.

Did it deteriorate from that restoration to the zombie in this photo?

image.png.24c373b0f9e75f976e65f128f0cefde0.png

SloopJonB 

There were some considerable efforts made to restore some aspects and change some interior layout. some rot was repaired well. other sections were missed. The hull had suffered a few impacts and patch repairs over the years that were showing her age. The decks are thin and even sanded through in some sections. A good from afar but far from the good scenario. The decks were covered in Cetol which apart from being ugly, is a slip and slide and not the best sealant. I've replaced more deck and rotted sub-framing. The decks are now covered in 8 coats of epoxy with a full sheet of S-glass and Uv topcoat with nonskid. 18" added to the rudder.  She's got a new boom with end sheeting, the rig is painted black. all new B&G electronics, new standing rigging, new running rigging, Lost all the cabin side winches - routed to the pit with new harken St's. I commend the efforts that were made in the past keeping her going, but at some point, she needed some real love. 

All of my efforts is in trying to get my dad out on her without cringing at her appearance - as he only knew her in bristol condition.  

 

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6 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Fantastic looking resto so far.

Definitely a Peterson 35 hull.  Deck and cabin definitely custom built.  Here is a blog from a previous owner who did a resto just 10 years ago. http://peterson35-blackheart.blogspot.com/2011/01/blackheart-peterson-35-salilboat.html

Doesn't really matter which variant the hull is.  Minor mods to the original Cooper Ganbare hull that gave rise to the Martin built Peterson 35 MkII and MkIII variants.  But I believe the MkII and MkIII share the same hull - only the deck and cabin differed. Several custom home builds were done from hull & deck purchased from Martin.  I can think of at least 2 possibly 3.  My guess is Waylon was purchased as a hull only from Martin.

Previous owners tried racing her for a couple of years but I think had a difficult time finding crew and seemed to give up on her.

12 Meter,

I've definitely taken a look through the blog, thanks for that, Wayne was great at documenting everything! Certainly to be commended some of the work that he did, In time I plan to record a similar blog about her current resto  - time always seems to be the enemy.  

Yes, Waylon was purchased as a hull from cooper - it was built in a barn in langley by my dad and his friend Doug Brealey - launched in 74' my dad was the original owner and lived aboard in false creek for 5 years before marrying my mom. I was born in 91' so this is all way before my time. 

I do plan to race her whenever I do not crew myself for 6's or much bigger boats.       

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1 hour ago, Former MDR Vandal 1 said:

Is this thread complete without mentioning Not By Bread Alone?

 

Ahh the Bread Box ..... very well rigged and better sailed - she dominated the east coast circuit - we chased her around with our Contessa 35 “Starlight” - we could handle many other Contessas and the other Ganbare “Sleeper” - but had to settle for 2nd a lot when Bread box was in our class

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18 minutes ago, cbulger said:

Ahh the Bread Box ..... very well rigged and better sailed - she dominated the east coast circuit - we chased her around with our Contessa 35 “Starlight” - we could handle many other Contessas and the other Ganbare “Sleeper” - but had to settle for 2nd a lot when Bread box was in our class

Plus she had her secret weapon - the Brit Chance keel.

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Ganbare never won the worlds. Was the fastest in 1973 and started Doug’s career winning the worlds in 74 and 75. 

On 7/12/2019 at 3:32 PM, SloopJonB said:

That's a Don Martin build. He built a passel of them - 40 or 50 I think - in 3 variants - that's a Mark II which was by far the most common. It is an actual Ganbare hull - Cooper started building them right after Ganbare won the Worlds. Martin was his shop manager at the time and later took the moulds and started out on his own.

Great boats and make great cruising boats. He built them pretty well - solid hull and balsa deck IIRC - nothing too fancy except some of them got carried away with the Hardware Wars of the time like hydraulic everything. Rod rigging seems to last way beyond the recommended 10 years around here.

If you have the skills to restore it, buy it - for that price your money is in the lead keel

 

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That's right - they were recognized as clearly the fastest boat but screwed up somehow - rounded a mark the wrong way or something.

Didn't something vaguely similar happen to Ydra in the preceding years?

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5 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That's right - they were recognized as clearly the fastest boat but screwed up somehow - rounded a mark the wrong way or something.

Exactly.  Won the North Americans, then won 4 of the 5 races in the One Ton Cup, but went around a mark "incorrectly" in the extra-points race and the penalty knocked her out of first for the regatta.

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On 12/27/2020 at 12:57 PM, 12 metre said:

Ganbare was a wooden boat built by Eichenlaub as a one off.  Since she had no claim to fame at that point, they wouldn't have made a mold from her and likely couldn't because she wasn't built to be a plug.  When Ganbare won the OTC in Italy, she sold and I believe has remained there since - or at least is there now.

Also, years ago I sailed for a while with the guy (Vern Ruskin), who had the first one built by Cooper.  Or rather he commissioned Doug to design her and he told me the story of Doug and his wife staying at his house in West Van for a few weeks during the build.  At some point either Forbes or Donny asked Vern if they could use Jolly Olly IV as a plug for a mold.  Vern agreed as he thought it would be great to have a bunch of competition.  So began the Cooper Ganbares.  Probably very similar to Ganbare, but more likely a development.

the Martin version of the Peterson One-Ton were the lines of a boat called "Lisa" out of Germany.  Believe "Lisa" is still around under another name.

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On 12/27/2020 at 1:16 PM, sailonwaylon said:

My father was the original owner of WAYLON, later named Blackheart. 

I know there was some contention over the years as to the make and model of Waylon, at one point it was registered as a 33' like Sitka. I've been assured she is a Pete 35, Ganbare. not a mkII. 

I found her a couple of years ago and am in the final stages of reviving her from the zombie fleet, she now is named Waylon once again.

I would love to hear stories of her earlier life, if anyone could comment. 

1Waylon.jpg

2Waylon.jpg

IMG-3496.jpg

IMG-3767.jpg

This needs a full on FoP style thread.

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1 hour ago, Laker said:

the Martin version of the Peterson One-Ton were the lines of a boat called "Lisa" out of Germany.  Believe "Lisa" is still around under another name.

That may well be.  On Facebook it says that Not by Bread Alone (Cooper Ganbare) was Design # 18 so assuming this was Doug's 18th design in about one year it wouldn't surprise me if he lifted the lines from one design to use on another.

But as I mentioned previously Vern Ruskin told me he commissioned Doug to design Jolly Olly IV which subsequently became the plug boat for the Cooper Ganbares.  Whether the lines were original or lifted from a German boat he never said.   So I will take your word for it.  

Overhead shot of Jolly Olly IV.  I think it may have been a PY cover photo.  Pretty certain it predates my time on her though.

JO IV.jpg

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It was very apparent at the time that each new boat from Peterson, Holland et. al. at that time was a tweaked version of their previous boat.

If you look at the boats of one of them over a year period it takes a pretty skilled eye to detect the differences - an inch here, an inch there as they became familiar with optimizing to the IOR.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

It was very apparent at the time that each new boat from Peterson, Holland et. al. at that time was a tweaked version of their previous boat.

If you look at the boats of one of them over a year period it takes a pretty skilled eye to detect the differences - an inch here, an inch there as they became familiar with optimizing to the IOR.

Sometimes for more than a year. As far as I can recall. the 1979 Regardless was only a lightly-tweaked version of the 1977 Imp.

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3 hours ago, 12 metre said:

But as I mentioned previously Vern Ruskin told me he commissioned Doug to design Jolly Olly IV which subsequently became the plug boat for the Cooper Ganbares.  Whether the lines were original or lifted from a German boat he never said.   So I will take your word for it.  

Overhead shot of Jolly Olly IV.  I think it may have been a PY cover photo.  Pretty certain it predates my time on her though.

JO IV.jpg

I remember an incident when Coopers had built 1/2 dozen or so of those Mk1 versions with the cabin from the Martin 29 mould.

I was in Mosquito Creek and saw 5 or 6 of them in a row on the hard. Pearce (of Pearce Arrow) and his wife were on theirs so I spoke to them about what was happening.

The boats all had wiggly keels because the lead had simply been bolted to the hull bottoms. The flat bottoms with no deadrise or garboard radius were so new that builders didn't yet realize that they needed substantial floors to stiffen them.

Cooper & Martin (his foreman at the time) found it out the hard way and had to retrofit all the early production boats.

I sometimes wondered if that experience was what soured Cooper on building them and subsequently letting Martin leave with the moulds to go it on his own.

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9 hours ago, 12 metre said:

That may well be.  On Facebook it says that Not by Bread Alone (Cooper Ganbare) was Design # 18 so assuming this was Doug's 18th design in about one year it wouldn't surprise me if he lifted the lines from one design to use on another.

But as I mentioned previously Vern Ruskin told me he commissioned Doug to design Jolly Olly IV which subsequently became the plug boat for the Cooper Ganbares.  Whether the lines were original or lifted from a German boat he never said.   So I will take your word for it.  

Overhead shot of Jolly Olly IV.  I think it may have been a PY cover photo.  Pretty certain it predates my time on her though.

JO IV.jpg

Were you on Jolly Olly for the big t-bone with the J-29 at WIRW?

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8 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Were you on Jolly Olly for the big t-bone with the J-29 at WIRW?

Yup.  From my recollection, it wasn't exactly a t-bone more like a glancing blow to their stern.  Last race of the series IIRC.  We were on port tack about halfway up the beat off Blowers Bluff. Saw them approaching and realized we couldn't cross and started bearing off to duck maybe 5-6 lengths before their cross.  We were clear and then at the last second came up a bit or rounded up, but it was pretty light air 5-8 kts maybe at most.

In any event, we clipped their stern, mangled the shit out of the stern pulpit and probably crunched some fiberglass.  Spun them around 90 degrees in fairly short order - not surprising I guess considering they weigh about 40% of the P35.  Can't recall if they suffered any further damage but I don't believe so - but don't quote me on that either.

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4 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Yup.  From my recollection, it wasn't exactly a t-bone more like a glancing blow to their stern.  Last race of the series IIRC.  We were on port tack about halfway up the beat off Blowers Bluff. Saw them approaching and realized we couldn't cross and started bearing off to duck maybe 5-6 lengths before their cross.  We were clear and then at the last second came up a bit or rounded up, but it was pretty light air 5-8 kts maybe at most.

In any event, we clipped their stern, mangled the shit out of the stern pulpit and probably crunched some fiberglass.  Spun them around 90 degrees in fairly short order - not surprising I guess considering they weigh about 40% of the P35.  Can't recall if they suffered any further damage but I don't believe so - but don't quote me on that either.

We were 5-6 boat-lengths to leeward and a bit ahead and watched it happen.  That was quite a big crunch! 

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On 7/13/2019 at 4:42 AM, Rain Man said:

Bits and Pieces had a tiller (that you had to screw back onto the rudderpost regularly) and Baggins had a wheel.   I'd take the tiller over the wheel but you need two people on it reaching or downwind in breeze.  For a cruising boat just reduce sail and it will be fine.

Hmmm.  My idea of a decent cruising boat doesn't involve the helm being unmanageable in a squall.

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I loved sailing the early Petersons 45 years ago. While perhaps a handful DDW with a symmetrical chute in perhaps 20+, I actually was very surprised at the downwind speed, and even the ability to surf. Faster DDW than expected, that was for sure. And of course, if not really pushing hard, handling DDW was not a problem. Upwind was perfect. Reaching saw a bit of helm, but again due to pushing very hard.

What a beautiful restoration! I am sure you will find the effort fulfilling.

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On 12/30/2020 at 4:22 PM, Diarmuid said:

Weren't the Island Yachts/Composite Technologies Petersons from Texas considered pretty well-built?

Yes. Solid hulls. Many are still out racing or cruising. Helped sell a late 70's one last spring that was structurally and cosmetically in very nice shape, just needed updated running rigging and deck hardware.   Well behaved boats too... a great value for PHRF racing or weekend cruising, daysailing.

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On 12/30/2020 at 9:20 PM, some dude said:

And Shenandoah 1981

And Tomahawk (1979).  A foot longer - mostly in a stretched-out transom profile - and a little more creature-comfort, but basically the same shape as the Doah.

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  • 10 months later...
On 12/27/2020 at 5:52 PM, sailonwaylon said:

12 Meter,

I've definitely taken a look through the blog, thanks for that, Wayne was great at documenting everything! Certainly to be commended some of the work that he did, In time I plan to record a similar blog about her current resto  - time always seems to be the enemy.  

Yes, Waylon was purchased as a hull from cooper - it was built in a barn in langley by my dad and his friend Doug Brealey - launched in 74' my dad was the original owner and lived aboard in false creek for 5 years before marrying my mom. I was born in 91' so this is all way before my time. 

I do plan to race her whenever I do not crew myself for 6's or much bigger boats.       

So glad to see Waylon getting the love and attention she deserves.  In the end, I just could not keep up with the continuous deck leaks, engine breakdowns, and upgrades she needed ($$$$). I am very proud to have been her caretaker for a few years.

Are you still planning on re-powering with electric drive?

I would love to see her when you have completed her restoration.

Wayne Meger

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