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1 hour ago, LionessRacing said:

Brand identity, after all many of the of the Boss fashion resemble some of the old villain's clothing

 

1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Like their uniforms, and maybe their obsession with black?

(Sorry, could not help thinking of "it")

 

 

 

 

77f7f9af8bd973afebf4c2fe61f483fd.462x700

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OK, spare me the "f off newbie"...been here before but had to re-register. I was lucky enough to get up close to the boat, and I can honestly say any pictures out there so far simply do not even

Even gets the keel modification correct.

Posted Images

39 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Any guess as to how much solar he has ? Would say at least 3500 W (a cell should be around 4.44)

No, would say 3,75 per cell, so at least 2600 W

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26 minutes ago, huey 2 said:

hoppy i bet your pasts not perfect either,  nasty shit casting stuff like that . Alex got a sponsor to the table...so he can live his dream

I got no issue... I have a couple of Hugo Boss suits and other clothing. Big fan of AT and his marketing stunts.

Just reacting to Lioness's "villain" reference.

 

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5 hours ago, yl75 said:

Any guess as to how much solar he has ? Would say at least 3500 W (a cell should be around 4.44)

 

4 hours ago, yl75 said:

No, would say 3,75 per cell, so at least 2600 W

Then go do an analysis which I did a quick one on another thread when he originally announced the solar plan involving location, time of year, predominant tacks, sail plan shading, heel angle and compass course etc.

There is a lot less solar charging capacity there than you first might think, cutting edge as it is.

The downside is if that isn't cutting the mustard he has to employ his hydro charge/hybrid propulsion which then slows him down in a race that to win is contingent upon squeezing every fraction of a knot out at times to so not to fall off the back of weather systems.

I'm with @Miffy this looks to me a big risk just to do the no fossil fuel marketing thing, yet in a boat made nearly entirely of fossils.

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9 hours ago, Miffy said:

 

Here's a potential mode of failure. Say Alex is hauling out a roller furling sail to go to the foredeck - hits a wave and swings the rope a little and a shackle at the end of a stiff anti-twist rope hits the deck. It happens all the time. Only. It is on a solar panel. Not knowing how the diodes are setup, assuming the there's damage to one cell, if can quickly take out a few hundred watts. In the southern ocean, plus shading, it can quickly start hurting his energy budget. 

Or a bad battery. A short from condensation. Etc. 

 

The solar problem is a non-event, they are all closed cell now and if you damage a number on each panel this is no problem. This sort of damage is likely, but not going to have a effect you will notice.

As for the bad battery, possible... But again you will have backups in place

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It's good to know that after sixty years, other people have caught up with Blondie Hasler and Jester. :D

Jester-2012.thumb.jpg.f70147a66fc4fdf3d93dff15888e68c0.jpg

As for solar only, Joyon beat the solo round the world record without any fossil fuel back in 2008. I'm sure that Alex Thomson's better funded project will manage just fine.

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Looking at the foil exits on deck and wondering about whether it really is a fixed keel, I keep coming back to the Quant 23. Are we going to see that type of foil? Considering that there is a rule permitting the inboard/upper foil case to rotate fore and aft a few degrees, I wonder if this would allow full foiling and stable flight like the Quant?Image result for quant 23

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10 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Brand identity, after all many of the of the Boss fashion resemble some of the old villain's clothing

 

10 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Like their uniforms, and maybe their obsession with black?

(Sorry, could not help thinking of "it")

 

10 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

More the Eurotrash  Green and Purple, thought the black is pretty much a staple.. 

 

9 hours ago, hoppy said:

 

77f7f9af8bd973afebf4c2fe61f483fd.462x700

You young people really have no fucking idea taking the piss out of Hugo Boss.

The staple back then was "brown" in variants for terrestrial uniforms and dark blue for the navy..black was reserved by those at the top of the military tree and arrived post around 1938.

Hitler utilised the frustration of the unemployed and veteran soldiers from WWI to assemble an unofficial army of thugs, known as the Sturmabteilung or "brown shirts" a paramilitary force that helped Hitler to power.

Hitler the leader however mainly wore either a brown or non descript coloured dark suit. Though occasionally he went Japenese when in Axis talks during WWII. Pretty sure HB didn't make that.

My guess ATR chose black over brown is otherwise it would signify Alex was racing around the world on top of a turd.

images - 2019-08-05T210843.915.jpeg

images - 2019-08-05T211526.038.jpeg

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23 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

 

 

You young people really have no fucking idea taking the piss out of Hugo Boss.

The staple back then was "brown" in variants for terrestrial uniforms and dark blue for the navy..black was reserved by those at the top of the military tree and arrived post around 1938.

Hitler utilised the frustration of the unemployed and veteran soldiers from WWI to assemble an unofficial army of thugs, known as the Sturmabteilung or "brown shirts" a paramilitary force that helped Hitler to power.

Hitler the leader however mainly wore either a brown or non descript coloured dark suit. Though occasionally he went Japenese when in Axis talks during WWII. Pretty sure HB didn't make that.

My guess ATR chose black over brown is otherwise it would signify Alex was racing around the world on top of a turd.

images - 2019-08-05T210843.915.jpeg

images - 2019-08-05T211526.038.jpeg

Careful Jack giving away your age now.! 

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34 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You young people really have no fucking idea taking the piss out of Hugo Boss.

The staple back then was "brown" in variants for terrestrial uniforms and dark blue for the navy..black was reserved by those at the top of the military tree and arrived post around 1938.

You are wrong, Jack:

Ref. Hugo Boss/Wikipedia.

"By the third quarter of 1932, the all-black SS uniform was designed by SS members Karl Diebitsch (artist) and Walter Heck (graphic designer). The Hugo Boss company was one of the companies that produced these black uniforms for the SS."

The brown uniforms were for the SA, the Sturmabteilung,  the equally bad nazi paramilitary.

Enough thread drift methinks, I am sorry to have started it.

 

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42 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

You are wrong, Jack:

Fiji no I'm not wrong...go look at what I said. Both Schutzstaffel and Waffen SS the military protection wing of the party yes. However it was the brown uniformed Sturmabteilung which Hitler used to rise to power not the SS. 

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11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fiji no I'm not wrong...go look at what I said. Both Schutzstaffel and Waffen SS the military protection wing of the party yes. However it was the brown uniformed Sturmabteilung which Hitler used to rise to power not the SS. 

only after he knocked of the leader of the brown shirts on the "night of the long knives".

 

1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

Careful Jack giving away your age now.! 

don't need to be old, just bored of network tv and a subscription including the History Channel... but Jack is probably that old

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

.black was reserved by those at the top of the military tree and arrived post around 1938.

 

1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

"By the third quarter of 1932, the all-black SS uniform was designed by SS members Karl Diebitsch (artist) and Walter Heck (graphic designees). The Hugo Boss company was one of the companies that produced these black uniforms for the SS."

The Wikipedia is wrong then. Maybe you should read up on the SS though.

Fiji out.

 

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6 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

 

The Wikipedia is wrong then. Maybe you should read up on the SS though.

Fiji out.

 

Fiji you miss the point and snipping out of context. Wiki also wrong if they say SS 1932..Schutzstaffel SS I think way before .mid 20's??

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7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fiji you miss the point and snipping out of context. Wiki also wrong if they say SS 1932..Schutzstaffel SS I think way before .mid 20's??

The SS was founded in 1925 and from the History channel "By 1932, the SS had grown to include thousands of members, and the group began wearing all-black uniforms."

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On 8/3/2019 at 10:59 AM, Rasputin22 said:

You can hardly keep breaking ground at the pace of the last one or you would just end up with dust... I just miss the hex paint job. Keel and rudders look fast. (Orange...)

She actually didn't have a paint job haha it was just a coating

 

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1 minute ago, Rasputin22 said:

So when is paint not a coating? Haha?

alright alright technicality. It was more of a clear coat than traditional "pain" not that anything about these boats is traditional. I heard when the last one sold, it had to be painted over before the new owner could take delivery.

 

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BASF calls it 'paint'. The reason it had to be painted over before going to the new owner was because the livery is under trademark. Not uncommon for sponsored racing yachts.

Whether the new racing yacht of the fashion house HUGO BOSS is going to be the fastest sailing boat in the world is yet to be seen. But one thing is certain: skippers and sailing fans around the world will not be able to ignore this state-of-the-art yacht. Alex Thomson Racing’s new IMOCA 60 racing yacht – also sponsored by the premium automobile brand Mercedes-Benz – is the first entirely black IMOCA 60 yacht in the world. This was made possible by painting the deck with a coating developed by BASF, which is based on the functional pigments made by the company. The yacht, skippered by leading British sailor Alex Thomson, will compete in its first Ocean Masters World Championship Race, The Transat Jacques Vabre, in October this year.

Yachts that feature black sails or a black hull are not altogether new. A deck structure that is entirely black, however, is a novelty because heavy sun exposure tends to heat up the dark surfaces enormously. This can lead to a heat build-up in the cabins below deck, which would make living conditions onboard extremely uncomfortable and can even affect the structural integrity of the composite materials. Hence, it was decided to use the functional pigments made by BASF to formulate the coating. They ensure that surfaces that are painted in dark colors can remain significantly cooler on hot days as they reflect rather than absorb heat. The ship builders used the special pigments that are sold under the Paliogen®brand, which are transparent for Near Infrared Light (NIR), as well as functional NIR-reflecting pigments from the Sicopal® range.

Reflecting most of the sunlight
The pigments are an innovative solution for solar heat management: through their use, the dark surfaces of the deck reflect a large part of the sunlight that they are exposed to. The sun beams penetrate the base coat whilst the filler below reflects the sunlight and ensures that the temperatures on the coated surfaces as well as inside the boat are significantly lower than they would be if conventional black pigments had been used.

"The black coating of the deck has been made possible by the development of this coating technology based on functional pigments," explains Arno Tuchbreiter, Head of Pigment Marketing for Industrial Coatings at BASF. "Otherwise, the radiation of the sun would lead to an unbearable build-up of heat in the windowless cabin and the interior of the boat. The deck too would become too hot and people would struggle to walk on it barefooted without getting burned.”

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50 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I've been trying to talk my spar builder into using this BASF Cool Black on a CF wing spar he is building for us. He wants to paint it white but the owner wants black. 

Picture

 

https://aerospace.basf.com/heat-reflective-cool-pigments.html

 

So a question might also be can you put the Sicopal/Meteor Plus under or into  something like an  AWLGRIP ? 

I just strung up radiant barrier film in the attic in Myrtle Beach, notable difference in the heat being under it vs next to it. 

I'm in the midst of the deck/cabin refurb and now would be a good time to incorporate as i'm nearing the end of the primer stack. if a white base could have black pigment added to get a light grey that would be ideal

 

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Seems like a final clear coat is part of the BASF system. There is a white highly reflective coating that was being touted for shipping container homes and offices to keep those from turning into solar ovens. Seems like the goal is to reflect as much infrared frequencies since they penetrate and heat things from the inside. Big factor in building super insulated iceboxes when I did mine a few years ago. The bubble pack at different thicknesses alternating with aluminized mylar seemed to act as traps for a range of frequencies in the IF spectrum. Stuff wasn't cheap but it was being marketed as NASA space blanket or something like that. Seemed to help though. I know the container paint has a high concentration of Titanium Dioxide but then so does most white paint! 

Check out this guy!!

https://www.dezeen.com/2018/07/31/massive-nasa-space-blanket-proposed-billowing-burning-man-installation-alexander-schtanuk/

 

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13 hours ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

The solar problem is a non-event, they are all closed cell now and if you damage a number on each panel this is no problem. This sort of damage is likely, but not going to have a effect you will notice.

As for the bad battery, possible... But again you will have backups in place

That depends entirely on the panel layout;They are using SI cells which in practice are less than the stated efficiency when strung in series by 3-4% and they are ~50% heavier than the best GaAs/IMM technology. SI cells don't contain individual blocking diodes, but it is likely they were included during panel build. The primary reason for this approach is cost, to cover the boat with higher end 28% cells would cost close to $1.5mil, the current solar setup is probably in the $300k range.

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Hancock has jumped on the band wagon and reckons with no water on deck she will be much lighter than her rivals, one bucket weighs plenty etc and Alex will be comfortable sleeping down below steering with a remote control and radar vision, will not be on deck unless he has too and sail changes etc. Sounds like Alex will have some chill out music going down below and sipping on cocktails at night. I like this type of racing. Just wake me up with the next wave slam. :D

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59 minutes ago, trimfast said:

No tiller? What’s his back up if auto pilot completely shits the bed? Don’t go near that thing at the start! Press of the button will never equal tiller speed in a crash tack etc.

All of the autopilots? Hydraulic wheel inside the pilothouse perhaps :) There must at least be emergency tiller(s). Interesting

 

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A typical sunpower panel with four elements is rated at 13. Someone with younger eyes can probably count them. Question is more re shading. 

 

In re steerage, there's no way there isn't a direct linkage system for starts and backup. Notice also this imoca doesn't have kickup rudders. 

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5 minutes ago, JoeBleaux said:

Is this a tiller in this picture? He must have a ton of confidence in the auto pilot. 

BossTiller.PNG

Certainly may be. Would help docking instead of the coffin drivers seat. However, surely not ideal if shit hits the fan in the southern ocean completely exposed.

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8 minutes ago, JoeBleaux said:

Is this a tiller in this picture? He must have a ton of confidence in the auto pilot. 

BossTiller.PNG

It looks like it but I would think that is an emergency tiller. No access to winches so it can't be a driving position.

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3 minutes ago, JoeBleaux said:

Is this a tiller in this picture? He must have a ton of confidence in the auto pilot. 

...and only on the port side so he thinks it is necessary only when dodging starboard traffic at the start?

I sailed from Honolulu to California without ever touching the wheel. Punched AUTO at the Ali Wai sea buoy, STANDBY at the harbor channel entrance. Easy.

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The two domes at the stern and also midships is interesting. Definitely looks like domes for camera/sensors. Imagine if it had NVG capability it'll greatly help sail trim in adverse and low light conditions. 

Unless they're satellite domes. 

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1
1 hour ago, Miffy said:

In re steerage, there's no way there isn't a direct linkage system for starts and backup. Notice also this imoca doesn't have kickup rudders. 

Yes it does - what are the big pink tie rods for if not that... ?

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Photos doesn't show the cutout in the hull for rudders to kick up. And often they're kept out of the water in the dock to keep them clean. They were down.

Rudder stock also penetrate the deck. Typically kick up rudder stocks are not mounted to the deck because it needs articulation. 

The rods look like a way to strut the loads without building a heavy hull. 

 3DE3DA30-21F5-4EB0-93F9-0F865619EAC0.thumb.jpeg.ae742243828770ec436fb9928535b002.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Yes it does - what are the big pink tie rods for if not that... ?

That's my take on what those are for two. Complicated geometry but it looks as if the whole rudder including stock can kick up, another reason for the separate tiller and associated linkage. Pretty simple change in case of breakage too.

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13 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Where is the bumper on the bow for those cliffs that he hit last year? Hope the have an alarm system that can wake him up before this happens again. Cattle prod up the wazoo perhaps.

Maybe a special pair of undies that have electrodes attached to his scrotum and the other end plugs into the alarm.  I could use one for my teenage son

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49 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

Maybe a special pair of undies that have electrodes attached to his scrotum and the other end plugs into the alarm.  I could use one for my teenage son

Easily knocked up from one of those dog training collars. Cinch it around the base of the meat and veg and it should wake you up!

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There is this opening on the foredeck to bring inside all the lines from the bow, but it will be interesting to see how it works for all the headsails sheets, don't see many "holes" for that !

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

There is this opening on the foredeck to bring inside all the lines from the bow, but it will be interesting to see how it works for all the headsails sheets, don't see many "holes" for that !

I would expect them to lead aft and all sheets to come in through a hole under the traveller. 

Also definitely kick up rudders. That is what the top two struts on each rudder exist for.

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So what do we reckon has been used to get the cover/seal between the canting keel and the hull? Its super smooth but it needs to allow quite a range of movement right on the pivot point. Looks s great setup so how do i get it!

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This boat has mid-cockpit layout. I bet the main tiller is quite close to the mast under these four hatches on top of the pink cockpit/cabin roof. These will be closed only when far away from other ships.

 

604B09C1-F7BF-426F-BC3E-75F754B944DD.jpeg

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Looks like there are simple, flexible cover plates over the keel barrel. As they don’t have much if anything of a keel dillet then they will get positive pressure in the wetbox so best to try and stop too much water flow. Should spend a lot of time in the transition zone, so will be impressive if they survive 

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4 hours ago, pilot said:

 

604B09C1-F7BF-426F-BC3E-75F754B944DD.jpeg

while all that time spent in an enclosure playing with a joystick offends my sailing sensibilities, I think they're definitely on to something with the man/machine interface with this mind blowing starship in a solo, non-stop race around the world. I wonder if all the other teams feel a little out gunned?

like the last boat, I'll bet this'll be the overall fastest in the race. it's amazing what man can create.

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5 hours ago, Chimp too said:

I would expect them to lead aft and all sheets to come in through a hole under the traveller. 

Also definitely kick up rudders. That is what the top two struts on each rudder exist for.

Zooming in on the rudder assemblies I'm not so sure they kick up.  I don't see the cut outs necessary and the angles of the stern bodywork look too tight for clearance.  Will be interesting to have that confirmed.  Wouldn't be the first boat to have fixed rudders in IMOCA by a long way

Agree on the sheeting and not too different from other recent IMOCA.

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3 minutes ago, jb5 said:

Zooming in on the rudder assemblies I'm not so sure they kick up.  I don't see the cut outs necessary and the angles of the stern bodywork look too tight for clearance.  Will be interesting to have that confirmed.  Wouldn't be the first boat to have fixed rudders in IMOCA by a long way

Agree on the sheeting and not too different from other recent IMOCA.

They kick up.  Everything about their external structure suggests it and they even have a little A Frame for lifting them up at the rudder heads.  It was a valued feature on the last boat and I don't see that changing.

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9 minutes ago, r.finn said:

They kick up.  Everything about their external structure suggests it and they even have a little A Frame for lifting them up at the rudder heads.  It was a valued feature on the last boat and I don't see that changing.

Not saying you're wrong at all.  But consider the kick up cassette system is also heavier and that extra weight is relatively high.  Could be some positive COG margin there if they don't.

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On 8/4/2019 at 6:27 PM, winchfodder said:

I guess there could be a rubber gator around the keel root. If so it has been very neatly fitted and faired

Apologies all for the red herring. More recent detailed pictures show the rotating element as others have pointed out.

Even more stupid was not checking the IMOCA rule because canting keel assembly is actually a one design element!

 

 

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14 hours ago, samc99us said:

That depends entirely on the panel layout;They are using SI cells which in practice are less than the stated efficiency when strung in series by 3-4% and they are ~50% heavier than the best GaAs/IMM technology. SI cells don't contain individual blocking diodes, but it is likely they were included during panel build. The primary reason for this approach is cost, to cover the boat with higher end 28% cells would cost close to $1.5mil, the current solar setup is probably in the $300k range.

Very interesting.

We build boats with solar panels which work the way I suggested, but they are in 'off the shelf' forms so less expensive.

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3 hours ago, jb5 said:

Not saying you're wrong at all.  But consider the kick up cassette system is also heavier and that extra weight is relatively high.  Could be some positive COG margin there if they don't.

For reference, how one of the older HBs were setup to kick up.

Screenshot_20190806-121137.png

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13 hours ago, Miffy said:

Photos doesn't show the cutout in the hull for rudders to kick up. And often they're kept out of the water in the dock to keep them clean. They were down.

Rudder stock also penetrate the deck. Typically kick up rudder stocks are not mounted to the deck because it needs articulation. 

The rods look like a way to strut the loads without building a heavy hull. 

 3DE3DA30-21F5-4EB0-93F9-0F865619EAC0.thumb.jpeg.ae742243828770ec436fb9928535b002.jpeg

I think it just appears that way. I believe the whole plate on the bottom of the hull where the rudder stock goes through will lift with the rudders.

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15 hours ago, Miffy said:

he two domes at the stern and also midships is interesting. Definitely looks like domes for camera/sensors.

Naw, it's one of these. Just haven't fitted the gun yet. Keeps away competitors in close starts

300px-Phalanx_CIWS_USS_Jason_Dunham.jpg

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4 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Apologies all for the red herring. More recent detailed pictures show the rotating element as others have pointed out.

Even more stupid was not checking the IMOCA rule because canting keel assembly is actually a one design element!

 

 

Hull/keel barrel detail is open though. 

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4 hours ago, Liquid said:

This cabin seems to have less windows than a more pedestrian coach roof... video trimming?

Knowing this crew I imagine the entire inside of that cabin is one big flexible LED screen showing the outside world :)

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