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New Hugo Boss Spotted


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On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 4:42 PM, bosshawg said:

That's pretty smooth!!

Why are there 3 people sitting on deck...? There are no controls up there, no winches, no tiller....

The whole point of this boat was to sail it down below, and it has all the controls and screens showing what's going on from down there - I guess in testing they may have a few extra people on board and that's the best place to put them?

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OK, spare me the "f off newbie"...been here before but had to re-register. I was lucky enough to get up close to the boat, and I can honestly say any pictures out there so far simply do not even

Even gets the keel modification correct.

Posted Images

10 minutes ago, freddy said:

Why are there 3 people sitting on deck...? There are no controls up there, no winches, no tiller....

The whole point of this boat was to sail it down below, and it has all the controls and screens showing what's going on from down there - I guess in testing they may have a few extra people on board and that's the best place to put them?

You answered your own question Freddy.! Testing time and you need eyes on deck. 

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6 hours ago, freddy said:

Why are there 3 people sitting on deck...? There are no controls up there, no winches, no tiller....

The whole point of this boat was to sail it down below, and it has all the controls and screens showing what's going on from down there - I guess in testing they may have a few extra people on board and that's the best place to put them?

They can use a tiller from up top, not sure if that's the case for a full speed run, but it's an option.

On 8/5/2019 at 9:36 PM, JoeBleaux said:

Is this a tiller in this picture? He must have a ton of confidence in the auto pilot. 

BossTiller.PNG

 

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7 hours ago, terrafirma said:

You answered your own question Freddy.! Testing time and you need eyes on deck. 

Testing for The Ocean Race. Where to stow the OBR for the expected wave over bow into the face shots. ;) 

Minimum crew of five + OBR. That is getting cozy even in normal IMOCA.

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14 hours ago, james3232 said:

Fucking useless Facefuck link to a stupid Waistbook "yacht club".

But I like these members:

https://www.gif-vif.com/when-you-need-cold-beer/?fbclid=IwAR3cdqqaKJOqcOnOL7rb-Misik72CwGA4xu6XK7hZQ4G816Qgx4N01vAQMU

 

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On 9/9/2019 at 10:22 PM, pulpit said:

I wonder if Alax has built a Boat that  is a better alrounder Boat than the others in the fleet. Top speed in heavy winds maybe down 10 % and the light wind boat speed maybe up 10 %. Just think if he can go through the doldrums quicker and get a jump on the fleet maybe this could be the advantage Alax is looking for. 

Yep first out of the Atlantic and get one system in front is a lot of miles to catch up even if off the pace a bit in the SO.

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On 9/9/2019 at 5:22 AM, pulpit said:

 

 

I wonder if Alax has built a Boat that  is a better alrounder Boat than the others in the fleet. Top speed in heavy winds maybe down 10 % and the light wind boat speed maybe up 10 %. Just think if he can go through the doldrums quicker and get a jump on the fleet maybe this could be the advantage Alax is looking for. 

 

Pulpit 

if the previous HB is any indicator, no. that boat is as one-trick pony as it gets, at least it was during the last Vendee Globe.

 

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4 hours ago, 3to1 said:

if the previous HB is any indicator, no. that boat is as one-trick pony as it gets, at least it was during the last Vendee Globe.

 

Yes, quite smart considering something like 90% of the vendee is downwind/reaching. It worked last time, apart from the crap he hit in the water. IIRC he held on to the lead until the beginning of the indian ocean. 

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IF the old HB was a 'one trick pony' how come he held the lead for soo long, and even when passed was darn close at the finish with a trashed foil?
I believe if the foil had not broken, AT would have won by several days

Here's hopeing the new HB and AT deliver!

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1 hour ago, SSolo said:

IF the old HB was a 'one trick pony' how come he held the lead for soo long, and even when passed was darn close at the finish with a trashed foil?
I believe if the foil had not broken, AT would have won by several days

Here's hopeing the new HB and AT deliver!

It was a one trick pony for a reason. Something like 90% of the vendee is reaching/downwind. Its one trick was going downwind/reaching. Pretty simple to see why it's a sound choice. Wouldn't do it for any other race though. 

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At Cape Horn HB was over 400nm behind BP but HB then had substantially better weather than BP in the Atlantic. The weather made it far closer than it would otherwise have been.

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On 9/16/2019 at 3:54 PM, jb5 said:

At Cape Horn HB was over 400nm behind BP but HB then had substantially better weather than BP in the Atlantic. The weather made it far closer than it would otherwise have been.

With a broken foil

That' was quite a come back.

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1C8612AC-3FB5-4661-8D01-D75775E32137.thumb.jpeg.84303fbe6bf17656d5ecc924d2ebf97a.jpeg.ed0f0f16e4131c0ae4971d22608da86a.jpeg

Shades of a Roman/ancient Galley.

I raced aboard an open fifty years ago that was painted with a rosy color inside the cabin. On the advice of a psychologist. Was meant to give the occupant a rosier take on life aboard. Oh, well, better living through chemistry, might be a modern way to elevate the prisoner's mood while traveling in that cell.

Or, self imposed punishment? Has Alex been a bad boy?

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35 minutes ago, jhc said:

I raced aboard an open fifty years ago that was painted with a rosy color inside the cabin. On the advice of a psychologist. Was meant to give the occupant a rosier take on life aboard. Oh, well, better living through chemistry, might be a modern way to elevate the prisoner's mood while traveling in that cell.

Or, self imposed punishment? Has Alex been a bad boy?

 

Paint is weight...

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1 hour ago, Ladyhawk said:

images from Katy Strickland Facebook , Yachting Monthly News and Features editor

With images like that, you're excused from posting your Lady's tits, but...  

She looks sweet though, and sorry to out her.

1960418053_2018-12-15_20-20-08_HDR(2).jpg.f8cded6930234bdafedd65c6769f4894.jpg.1a4aa3a4bd88e4f299cf8ff7a1789d3c.jpg

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Wins or not the AT/HB combo has produced a lot of really interesting ideas B)

I like the less brute-force, more sailor friendly approach of this iteration, though it might be excessively reliant on the tech being reliable.

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8 hours ago, Ladyhawk said:

bzBXISU.jpg

 

8G8LdsM.jpg

 

images from Katy Strickland Facebook , Yachting Monthly News and Features editor

 

Pulling the wrong release rope would give me nightmares.  For some reason it seems easier than opening the wrong cam.  Probably not.

Seeing Tower Bridge from the spaceyacht is weird...

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9 hours ago, Irrational 14 said:

It'll be interesting to see how those tablets and connectors hold up over time.

I like the concept, but that is a ton of dampness and humidity they will need to withstand even with the waterproof enclosures.

Really?

I just assumed they would be straight up using waterproof tablets... I have a waterproof phone, and it's just a normal smartphone, I'd way rather have it with me on the water than risk it being stolen elsewhere, 2 years not in a case and maybe 200 days in that environment and it's like new.

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38 minutes ago, darth reapius said:

I have a waterproof phone, and it's just a normal smartphone, I'd way rather have it with me on the water than risk it being stolen elsewhere, 2 years not in a case and maybe 200 days in that environment and it's like new.

I use waterproof phone as well while sailing and I have to buy new one every year because the charger connector stops working. The latest one has wireless charging fortunately. 

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

What is the "deflector" exactly ? Something for the backstays ?

A deflector is usually between the mast and the running backstay, like an inverse checkstay.

 

2 hours ago, European Bloke said:

Pulling the wrong release rope would give me nightmares.  For some reason it seems easier than opening the wrong cam.  Probably not.

They are constrictors right? So you'd probably have the line on the winch when opening anyway.

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8 minutes ago, pilot said:

I use waterproof phone as well while sailing and I have to buy new one every year because the charger connector stops working. The latest one has wireless charging fortunately. 

Wait really?

Do you clean it out? Most new ones fail from lint. CLR might help.

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1 hour ago, darth reapius said:

Do you clean it out? Most new ones fail from lint. CLR might help.

No, contacts just corrode away. Especially if you recharge the phone/tablet via wire like it is done in the HB boat.

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49 minutes ago, ITA602 said:

mmmmm... all those screens with a connector on a side... I do not like them.

Minimum good practice would be to run the cable from below.  That way any water/ condensation on the wire would run away from the plug / tablet not into it.

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12 hours ago, Irrational 14 said:

It'll be interesting to see how those tablets and connectors hold up over time.

I like the concept, but that is a ton of dampness and humidity they will need to withstand even with the waterproof enclosures.

I cannot tell of they are portable Tablets/Enclosures at a charge point or IP Rated Screens/Connections with remote PC? Would be very surprised if not the latter but if the former then that is pretty dumb.

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12 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

top left screen is obviously his 24hour porn feed.  Hence being turned off for photos.

lol, and he's using the extra large model.

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28 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I cannot tell of they are portable Tablets/Enclosures at a charge point or IP Rated Screens/Connections with remote PC? Would be very surprised if not the latter but if the former then that is pretty dumb.

For sure one of them must be a windows tablet or remote pc screen in order to run adrena. The big one on the left probably. I think we see it in one of the video or pic. 

It would also be interesting to know which batteries he is using. Maybe the torqeedo ones? (not LFP but much more energy dense), or did he stay on the safe side? 

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1 hour ago, SCARECROW said:

Minimum good practice would be to run the cable from below.  That way any water/ condensation on the wire would run away from the plug / tablet not into it.

They’ll figure that out when the porn screen stops working. 

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Just now, Raptorsailor said:

I'm pretty sure they are waterproof, it would be stupid not to.

I'm curious how they have built the whole enclosure to meet the safety survival cell requirements.  There must be several of entry points  into that cell that in a typical IMOCA would be in the 'openish' cockpit and not an issue.  One problem Jean Le Cam had when he lost his keel bulb a few VGs ago and capsized was the lines getting washed into the boat and not being able to close the hatch quickly.  I think HB had the same issue when they capsized in the TJV before the last VG.  Would think with this new design that issue would be even more sever.  The workarounds would be good to see.

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

It would also be interesting to know which batteries he is using. Maybe the torqeedo ones? (not LFP but much more energy dense), or did he stay on the safe side

He used US made Lithionics LFP last time. Would be surprised if he isn't going again. Could use LMO or LNMC depending on supplier which are around same energy density as LFP,  but with a remote BMS (not intergral with battery) for ease of troubleshooting.

us-lithium-ion-battery-market.jpg.c3e55fa1f2ffbef1cd5e8c8d30173efa.jpg

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2 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Minimum good practice would be to run the cable from below.  That way any water/ condensation on the wire would run away from the plug / tablet not into it.

Exactly. In my company, we design electronics for offshore platforms; all connectors/cable glands located at the bottom of the box is standard best practice...

 

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6 hours ago, European Bloke said:

Pulling the wrong release rope would give me nightmares.  For some reason it seems easier than opening the wrong cam.  Probably not.

 

4 hours ago, JonRowe said:

They are constrictors right? So you'd probably have the line on the winch when opening anyway.

 

I never used a constrictor type cleat; but can you release one on a line under tension, not being on a winch?

If yes, pulling the wrong constrictor string, for a line that is not on a winch could be... interesting...

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52 minutes ago, Laurent said:

I never used a constrictor type cleat; but can you release one on a line under tension, not being on a winch?

Yes and the good part is that you can easily release it inch by inch. The friction is controllable by the release rope. As much you pull it that much the constrictor looses its contact surface.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

He used US made Lithionics LFP last time. Would be surprised if he isn't going again. Could use LMO or LNMC depending on supplier which are around same energy density as LFP,  but with a remote BMS (not intergral with battery) for ease of troubleshooting.

us-lithium-ion-battery-market.jpg.c3e55fa1f2ffbef1cd5e8c8d30173efa.jpg

My understanding is that LMO and LNMC are really a step above LFP in terms of energy density, something like 30% or 40% more

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33 minutes ago, Varan said:

Or add a loop before the connector.

Or add a cable with the 90 degree connector. With this straight plug it is easy to damage the connector on tablet side by just handling ropes too loosely below. 

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17 hours ago, Ladyhawk said:

2nli5lw.jpg

IPC6Hu9.jpg

images from Katy Strickland Facebook , Yachting Monthly News and Features editor

This box is located behind the wall at the back of the mid-cockpit. Similar bearing-shaft can be seen outside where the emergency tiller can be plugged. It looks like this is not only for the autopilot arm and a tiller can be attached from the cockpit side as well. I noticed it in some pictures. Alex is steering inside:

MjAxOTA5ODI4NmY0YTlmZDRmZjc0NWIyNTc1YWFkYjM0ODY4YWM.thumb.jpg.34f1427e7014fd3ec6460ec6554707a1.jpg

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/voile/vendee-globe-video-alex-thomson-n-y-retourne-que-pour-gagner-6527302

And another picture where the tiller is coming out from the wall on the other side:
1a2cb025ec161804c20c71c92f8ba710_f714934.jpg.8e7fb99e2a8b3b3f2f95577ac42313e9.jpg

https://gsy.bailiwickexpress.com/gsy/sport/thomson-admits-even-vendee-victory-may-not-satisfy-his-desire-success

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

My understanding is that LMO and LNMC are really a step above LFP in terms of energy density, something like 30% or 40% more

LFP and LMO are in the same postcode for density and thermal runway difference of <10%. LNMC is around 40% higher energy density but also much lower thermal runway ie 210C versus LFP 270C.

However there are various cocktails of LNMC that can be made to lower risk, it has a lower self heat rate and with no high charge rate sources like diesel alternators, only renewables on HB so arguably safer. Thinking about it the  charging issues in the Southern Ocean may tip HB having to take more energy storage than normal and that weight saving outweigh the additional risk.

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https://us12.campaign-archive.com/?u=1e692787e2c4cc3370813fca1&id=4434df5897

Tip & Shaft interview with Quentin Lucet project head from VLVP..

Some interesting bits...

Cockpit -  The other advantage is that means he will avoid filling the cockpit, the hollows in the deck and the lines with 400 litres of water: the gains in dynamic mass are huge.

Foils - Alex does not consider that upwind sailing is very important in order to win the Vendée Globe where for Jérémie, it is a little more important. 

If one day we were forced to sail without foils, we would be more penalized than them (new non VLVP designs)

Use in the TOR: possible because it is about the hull and foils, it works in that sense but you would need some work with a chainsaw to make the cockpit work, you could not have five sailing inside.

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The latest Alex Thomson Hugo Boss was launched in early August in Gosport before being officially presented and christened on Thursday in London. This was an opportunity for Tip & Shaft to discuss with Quentin Lucet, in charge of the project at VPLP, accompanied, during this interview, by Vincent Lauriot-Prévost.
 
How were you chosen by Alex Thomson's team?
Quentin Lucet: We already had a relationship of trust with them, since we had made their boat before, Hugo Boss 6[with Guillaume Verdier, Editor's note]. Then, we were in a context where Guillaume was working on the Super Sixty[the 60-foot one-design project for the Volvo Ocean Race, editor's note], Alex had initiated discussions around this project, but it didn't necessarily correspond with what he had in mind, in the sense that he wanted to start from scratch. We had a lot of discussions with Alex's team, especially about the time at our disposal, knowing that the launch objective was well identified: the Transat Jacques Vabre 2019. In all, we were able to benefit from more than six months of studies dedicated to the project before the forms were sent, compared to three or four in general.
 
What was the specification?
Vincent Lauriot-Prévost: It was simple: it was the Vendée Globe, or nothing! When asked if we were putting ingredients in so that this boat could be used in other races, the answer was "no, not at all".
 
What did you deduce from this in terms of general philosophy?
Quentin Lucet: Our general philosophy consists of optimising the boat's minimum drag, with an emphasis on hydrodynamics and foils, since we really rely on their power to drive the boat to the Vendée Globe's preferred speeds.
 
If we go into detail?
Quentin Lucet: There are several levels: first of all the optimization of the mass, on which we insisted a lot, and the centre of gravity, which corresponded to Alex's request to have a more advanced cockpit. We designed a geometry, especially livet shapes, with a distribution of volumes within the hull that really went in the direction of mass gain. This allows us to have a boat that, in practical terms, has the lowest cockpit floor in the entire fleet. The second level is the aerodynamic part, with a lot of research on the roof design, both on the front part and on the termination at the listening bar. We did dunnage studies on an Imoca platform that highlighted the important brake of the wiretap. The result: you no longer have a roof and then a cap above the cockpit floor, but a continuous roof from the mast foot to the transom. In addition, it goes in the direction of protecting the skipper with the cockpit completely closed.
 
This completely enclosed cockpit is the result of this reflection or a request from Alex Thomson?
Quentin Lucet: He was the one who came up with the idea. Because the installation of such a cockpit is completely linked to the man who will be on board: does he feel comfortable with this option or not? Pushed him in that direction.
 
In concrete terms, how does Alex sail in this closed cockpit?  
Quentin Lucet: Everything is centralized, he doesn't need to go out or expose himself to shock or look at his sails, and there's everything you need in terms of opening on top to have a view in front, behind and on the sails, basically it's an open roof. In addition, he has cameras that allow everything to be seen 360 degrees. The other advantage is that it avoids having to carry 400 litres of water in the cockpit, in the roughness of the deck and on the ends: the dynamic weight gain is very important.
 
Now let's talk about the hull, what are its characteristics?
Quentin Lucet: The most striking thing, I think, is the fairly rounded transom with a not very strong bilge. The advantage is that when the boat starts to take off, you have a very fast reduction in the wet surface area, which is less noticeable with flatter hull shapes. Then, at the water inlets, we tried to stretch the water lines as much as possible, with a bow that has a big nose, which allows, as soon as the boat heels, to reduce the hull drag even further.  
 
Can we find out the weight of the boat?
Quentin Lucet: It's not up to us to answer[7.6 tons according to the press release], but we arrive at a mass about the same as the lightest boats of the last generation, with much larger foils[the pair of foils is announced at 500 kilos].
 

What are the characteristics of Hugo Boss' foils?
Quentin Lucet: We've put the emphasis on an early takeoff, because we think their area of use is important in light airs, it's not necessarily in 25 knots of wind that it's going to happen. The second rather important notion is that of foil self-regulation, because the "two-foot stool" is not extremely stable on a road that is not very well dented, so we try to work on the fact that disturbances from the sea or the wind can regulate themselves to a certain extent with the shape of the foils.
Vincent Lauriot-Prévost: In concrete terms, it's not a question of making a shaft, an elbow and a tip - sorry for Tip & Shaft! - but it's a ray that comes out of the bridge, where the shaft, elbow and tip are confused. We are trying to ensure that the variation in draught can generate regulation by the slopes given at the inlet and outlet.
 
Getting the boat off the ground early means how fast does it start?
Quentin Lucet: It depends on the speed, but I think that from 10 knots, it remains quite neutral, the foil pays for the drag it generates, then, from 12 knots, the boat leaves. What is quite interesting is that these foils are completely retractable, which means that if you don't need them, in all the speeds where they generate more drag than they create lift, you can retract them.
 
What are the major differences between Hugo Boss and Charal?
Quentin Lucet: First of all, the foils are different, because the skippers' specifications are different in terms of use and research or not in terms of versatility: Alex considers that upwind sailing is not very important to win the Vendée Globe, whereas for Jérémie it is a little more so. Secondly, the cockpit and deck layout, which we talked about, are not the same. I also think we had a long reflection with Alex's team on structural design, we took the time to do complete iterations on options for small structures, because they gave us time to study them. Whenever there was a possible gain of ten to fifteen kilos that met ergonomic considerations, we went there.
 
And what are the differences with the other Imoca launched this summer?
Vincent Lauriot-Prévost: We didn't look for the same thing: where we designed a hull to optimize the hydrodynamic brake, the others worked on more powerful hulls without the help of the foil. We didn't agree to pay in drag what we can gain in power, like what we used to do with small foils. We have made a little less concessions, our projects are a little more radical, in the sense that if we ever had to sail without foils, we would be more penalized than they are.
Quentin Lucet: If the foil breaks, Alex will no longer be able to keep pace as he did three years ago, which was possible because the foils were much smaller. Alex says that the walk between his last Hugo Boss and the current one is even bigger than the one before.
 
In how many days would the new Hugo Boss be able to do the Vendée Globe?
Quentin Lucet: I wouldn't be surprised to find the same kind of gap as between François[Gabart's] 78-day Vendée Globe and Armel's[Le Cléac'h] 74. So around 70 days if conditions allow.
 
Could this boat be transformed for The Ocean Race?
Quentin Lucet: It wouldn't be a heresy, everything that is hull and foils, it works, but you would have to put a nice chainsaw in the cockpit, you can't be five people in it...
 
Will the current foils be those of the Vendée Globe? Is a V2 planned?
Quentin Lucet: We have made the foils that seemed the best to us, now the tools have evolved again since the launch of the shapes, but to know where we are going, we need first of all a feedback from the sailor and to receive the data analyses.
Vincent Lauriot-Prévost: There is no decision at the moment, either way.
 
Can Hugo Boss win the Transat Jacques Vabre?
Quentin Lucet: I think the objective is really to do a big job of making it more reliable. The process is long, as we have seen with Charal, who, after one year, is reliable, so the priority will be to cross over, rather than to put pressure on himself to win.
Vincent Lauriot-Prévost: Then, in the best of all worlds, if there are no problems, the crew and the boat can win, as soon as they have taken off, it's going to be all schuss.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

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21 minutes ago, ctutmark said:

Would love to see a pic of how to get into the "interior". Near as I can tell there will be hatches at the aft end of the cockpit on each side of the hallway to the outside world.

 

There are four hatches above the cockpit but only one door at the back end of the room..This is located in the middle and folds to the right when entering. Here you can see the opening above the engine bay that seems to be at the same height than the cockpit floor.

Some of that (folded open) door is visible at the left-bottom corner on this picture:

 

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Lucent says; ".......this allows us to have a boat that, in practical terms, has the lowest cockpit floor in the entire fleet."

"Lowest cockpit floor in the entire fleet" translates to "tightest cabin/transom escape space in the entire fleet."

Hope they didn't forget to measure Alex up first. 

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22 hours ago, European Bloke said:

Congratulation, I can see why you'd be pleased with that.

So what else can you tell us?  Fill in some of the gaps in the speculation?

Like F1 there is now so much hype, discussion both correct/ incorrect, and general intrigue among the teams it would be wrong to comment on anything other that is what is officially put out by the HB team. 
HB have done a great job of keeping things quiet so everyone else is now committed to their own designs and it will be interesting to see how the boats fare when then have the first match up' in the TJV. But the boat has been designed around Alex to do one thing only... win the VG. No compromise 
The extent Pete and the team has gone to to minimize weight, multi task items when possible is incredible
what was lovey was at the launch Alex publicly thanked Pete "the genius" ; I say no more, the lad just thinks so far out of the box you can see the jumps made by his input and design
 

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