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1 hour ago, jb5 said:

So now we get to see what Charal can do from behind.  Going a couple of knots faster than the immediate competition of older boats and at a lower angle.  Maybe 2nd?

 Charal has a tighter/ slower angle? 

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Good morning from Initiatives Coeur! All is good on board! It’s been a great run so far and we have already achieved a new record top speed for the boat - 34.2 knots reaching yesterday! The only pro

Yes owners, and often with outside investors for the value of the cargo. My grandfather re bought his grandfathers cargo boat and kept it in the family for outings. So I could sail before I could sw

Will Harris' explanation of the western option: https://www.transatjacquesvabre.org/en/news/newswire/1366/will-harris-britain-co-skipper-malizia-ii-yacht-club-de-monaco

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Apivia followed the last M50, even came close to 9 M or so. Nice to have in front of you. While overtaking Charal who was 70 miles more to the West. Who was earlier ahead of the 50. Both passed them. And no other 50 close by. So  I think Api really profited from it.
 

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Just now, LeoV said:

Apivia followed the last M50, even came close to 9 M or so. Nice to have in front of you. While overtaking Charal who was 70 miles more to the West. Who was earlier ahead of the 50. Both passed them. And no other 50 close by. So  I think Api really profited from it.
 

Yes there is no doubt they gained a very useful second opinion from the routed Multi 50.  Its what it is.

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13 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

They get the benefit of seeing the multi 50 routers opinion, surely not extra weather information as they can download that themselves, but they'd have to know who routes whom to get an idea of the opinions behind their tracks?

They get to watch the route taken by those with additional information available. A big benefit when its close.

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59 minutes ago, jb5 said:

They get to watch the route taken by those with additional information available. A big benefit when its close.

As far as I know there is no additional information, merely additional people.

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44 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

As far as I know there is no additional information, merely additional people.

 

Multi 50 get land based routing.  Its a class rule based out of safety concerns as I understand it.

Hourly position updates are also sent to the fleet.

If you're behind a Multi 50 you have the option to look at what they are doing from the position information knowing that they have also benefited from land based routing along with the weather files being sent to the fleet.

You can learn from their mistakes or good decisions.  Pretty smart of Apivia but I would think all the IMOCA front runners are very well aware of this situation.

Its a problem particular to this race because of the Multi 50 rule and the relatively close performance between the leading IMOCA and Multi 50's but it also brings into question if multihulls should even have land based routing when not solo.

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I'm not disputing its an advantage to see the multi 50s routes, given there has been more time and more people involved in their routing, it's just not more weather information, its just consensus.

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There are very many sources of weather information available depending in some cases upon the size of your wallet.  Consensus is part of it but who knows what they used vs whats available to the fleet. 

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2 minutes ago, jb5 said:

depending in some cases upon the size of your wallet

And time and bandwidth. 19 years ago it took me 4 hours to download a simple weatherfax. Shore based routers have the expertise, power, time and bandwidth to check and evaluate multiple sources, thus freeing up the sailors to actually run the boat.

And not least, this frees up crew selection. Less need to accommodate trusted and aging navs who could do their job just as well in comfort at home ;) 

 

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Great race for the Imoca podium. 

Good come back by charal, advens also in the hunt.  BP struggling. Wouldn't like to call it. Tiredness must be taking a toll,  especially after such a tough doldrums crossing. 

 

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ETA Apivia 10 Nov 03:00 in the night. I used this ETA for benchmarking the IMOCA 60 polars. My weather routing has it too at 3 o'clock in the night. I used fresh IMOCA 60 2015 version polars from VLM converted for Open CPN by me instead of the 2012 version. I will try to tweak the 2015 version even further.

image.png.052a18f4a2ffc384ed01634fa144e7ce.png

 

image.thumb.png.645b78c1186f05a66be95c04b500a53a.png

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From Lipinski 

[MESSAGE DU BORD]
Ian a pris le temps de raconter, sans fard et avec humour, « son premier pot au noir »

 « Mon premier pot au noir
A force d'en entendre parler, j'étais un peu impressionné d'arriver dans cet endroit là.. En plus, on y arrivait vite puisqu'on déboulait plein badin sous spi médium. On avait aussi pas mal à y perdre dans cette zone aléatoire, étant le premier Class40 à y entrer... Bref, je ne savais pas trop à quoi m'attendre.
Sur les photos satellites (une nouveauté pour moi dont on parle beaucoup aussi) qu'est-ce qu'on voit ? Un nuage énormissime de 300 milles de large et de long, comme un énorme cumulonimbus géant prêt à nous croquer. Moi je n'aime pas trop les orages. Près d'une cheminée, dans un salon ça va mais, en mer avec un paratonnerre de 18m au-dessus de la tête et pas un sommet à l'horizon, ça ne me rassure pas plus que ça.
Du coup, après avoir vu la photo satellite, je sors et j’ai la confirmation de ce que je pouvais imaginer sur l'ordi : fait pas beau droit devant ! En plus, au début je crois qu'Adrien a encore déclenché sa flash-light dans sa poche avec trop d'humidité, mais non ce sont les éclairs au loin…!

Adrien veut aller dormir : je me retrouve donc sur le pont à débouler à plus de 15kts sous spi vers la bouche grande ouverte de ce fameux pot au noir.... je vais me faire manger tout cru !

Je suis fébrile, quelques rafales à 26 kts plus tard je réveille Adrien pour lui expliquer qu'il faut réduire la toile. Il me regarde et me dit droit dans les yeux : « Bon, Ian, arrête un peu avec ce pot au noir. C'est des grains pendant deux jours et basta. On fonce dedans, on réduira s’il le faut en temps voulu ! »

Ok c'est parti ! Du coup pendant deux jours on a foncé sous les grains, affalant le spi ou roulant le gennak quand vraiment on ne le tenait plus. Du coup, pas le temps pour réduire le reste, la grand-voile par exemple, qui se retrouvait pleine dans 30 kts et plus, bateau sur la tranche à fond les ballons.... faut que ça tienne ! Et ça a tenu.

C'était quand même une drôle d'ambiance de bout du monde. Une chaleur étouffante dans une pénombre permanente en pleine journée. A l'intérieur du bateau : le hammam ! Les affaires qui sèchent, le réchaud, et une fois de temps en temps le moteur en plus des 30 degrés de base de l'endroit... sympa la sieste sur le duvet humide de deux semaines en mer comme matelas !

Et puis, comme d'habitude, en mer en général et en course en particulier... on attend un peu et ça passe. Aujourd'hui, le soleil pointe le bout de son nez. Après quelques passages sous des grains plus petits, nous voici sous une nouvelle nuit étoilée, avec du vent d'Est pas très fort, mais régulier, filant à nouveau vers le Sud sans effort !

Je crois que ça y est, nous l'avons passé ! »

 

TRANSLATED

[MESSAGE FROM THE EDGE]
Ian took the time to tell, unapologetic and with humor, "his first pot to black"

 "My first pot au noir
By dint of hearing about it, I was a little impressed to arrive in this place there .. In addition, we arrived quickly because we debouched full badin under spinnaker medium. We also had a lot to lose in this random area, being the first Class40 to enter ... In short, I did not know what to expect.
On the satellite photos (a novelty for me that we talk a lot too) what do we see? An enormous cloud 300 miles wide and long, like a huge giant cumulonimbus ready to bite us. I do not like storms too much. Near a fireplace, in a living room, but at sea with a lightning rod 18m above the head and not a peak on the horizon, it does not reassure me more than that.
So, after seeing the satellite photo, I go out and I have confirmation of what I could imagine on the computer: not pretty right ahead! In addition, at the beginning I think Adrien still unleashed his flash-light in his pocket with too much moisture, but no it's lightning in the distance ...!

Adrien wants to go to sleep: I find myself on the bridge to tumble more than 15kts under spinnaker to the mouth wide open of the famous doldrums .... I will eat myself alive!

I'm feverish, a few bursts at 26 kts later I wake up Adrien to explain that we must reduce the canvas. He looks at me and says right in the eyes: "Well, Ian, stop a little with this pot to black. It's grains for two days and basta. We go in, we will reduce if necessary in due time! "

OK here we go ! Suddenly for two days we have sunk under the grain, slumping the spinnaker or rolling the gennak when we really did not hold it anymore. So, no time to reduce the rest, the mainsail for example, which was found full in 30 kts and more, boat on the slice bottom balloons .... must hold it! And that held.

It was still a strange atmosphere at the end of the world. Stifling heat in a permanent darkness in the middle of the day. Inside the boat: the hammam! The things that dry, the stove, and once in a while the engine in addition to the basic 30 degrees of the place ... nice nap on the wet duvet of two weeks at sea like mattress!

And then, as usual, at sea in general and race in particular ... we wait a little and it passes. Today, the sun is the tip of his nose. After a few passages under smaller grains, here we are under a new starry night, with the east wind not very strong, but steady, spinning again to the south without effort!

I think that's it, we spent it! "

 
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1 hour ago, bonox said:

Wow. Charal what a comeback. Still fighting for second place. It is clear now that it has the best foil choice in this class. 

 

Charal is probably the fastest boat overall. IMHO in a year they will be challenged by Apivia but also Advens. Ruyant and Koch are doing so well after a bad start:

 

advens.JPG

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49 minutes ago, huey 2 said:
 
· 1 hr · 
 
09/11 at 12 PM]
 Ranking: 3th
 Gap with 1St: 263,9 NM
 distance to goal: 493 NM
Speed: 20 Los
Nice lift from jérémie & Christopher Pratt!  
Currently 3th, our duo hunting Kevin Escoffier-Prb in the last straight line to Brazil! 
#CharalSailingTeam #VivonsFo

A raging bull on the run.  They must be totally pissed with what happened.  Wouldn't want to be in their way.  They have pace on everyone.

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I think Apivia and the other 3 new boats (but HB) will change their foils before the VG after the Bull show off. Big disappointment on the new and first Juan K design  (Arkea) in spite of the broken foil. This is also a radical choice as HB and Charal. Interesting times ahead for monohull sailing.

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A last weather routing to see if Charal can take her revenge on PRB and finish 2nd. That does not seem likely; Charal is 3 hours later projected at the finish than PRB. Although she has been 4% (444 nm / 428 nm) quicker in the past 24 hours than PRB, there is not enough DTF left to catch PRB it seems.

Input;

- GFS 6 hr run

- IMOCA 2015 polars

- 12:30 positions

 

Schermafdruk 2019-11-09 14.40.19.png

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Beyou interview, link to gtrans

Quote

Jeremie, you knew many passages of the Doldrums in your career as a sailor, can we say that it was the worst?

Yes, it was really terrible, it was even just one of the worst moments of my career. Often, I remain cautious, but at the beginning of the week, before arriving in the Doldrums, I said that it was unheard of in a Jacques Vabre or a deckchair that a boat returning with more than 100 miles do not come out on top. Unfortunately, it happened. We were over 120 miles ahead of Apivia and it was useless. At first, our entry into the Doldrums is not bad, at one point, we have a big grain with wind at 30 knots and behind, curtain! It never came back and above all, we marked the ground for all those who came behind, it was blessed bread for them, they had only to shift to the east not to remain blocked.

We've all experienced things like that regardless of the regatta, those times when you are in the lead, where you have sailed very well, which was the case since the beginning of the race, where you control your subject and where everything once, for reasons out of control, everything falls apart. It happened to me on races like the Solitaire du Figaro, but it lasted an hour or two, a maximum of six for a tide and it went off again, it lasted three days. It was really hard, because every time we had a little bit of thinning, we believed it, we had the impression of going out, and then at night, all the clouds that we managed to go up close. were returning to us downwind. It was hell, like a carousel that never stops spinning.

It was like the movie Endless Day , where you wake up every morning on the same day, the story started again for three days ...

From the outside, we said that it must be hellish to live, how did you do not crack with Christopher in these conditions?

We cut the rankings, we did not want to see them anymore. After 24 hours, we realized that it was going to be complicated, and especially, that it did not stop. However, there was nothing at all as a gap at the beginning: when we got into the soft spot, Apivia was in our axis. And when we realized that it was going to be really difficult to get out, there was a lateral shift of about fifteen miles. But there, you understand that they are on the highway and that you, you are on the departmental, and that the next junction is very far. You see the guys at 130 and you, you're at 30 max, so we cut the rankings, because it's not human, it became unbearable. We just tried for three days to get out of there.

Are we in these conditions to sleep, to eat, or are we completely obsessed with getting out?

A bit of both. There are times when you do not sleep for 24 hours, because you can not get ahead and the next shot, you do not want to get out of your bunk, because you do not want to see that anymore you eat to forget what you live. What is certain is that with Christopher, we have always remained supportive, ultra-positive, to tell ourselves that we had to try to get out of there, to do things to the place, but that was really super hard to live with.

24 hours since you came out of the Doldrums, what is now your goal?

Yes, we left, we know that the victory has escaped us. We are going to say that we also need luck from time to time to win races. We did not get it this time, the victory will not be for this Jacques Vabre. However, as long as the line is not crossed, nothing is played. We try to make Charal work, and give everything to live fully the last days together.

original at https://www.charal.fr/post-voile/le-pot-au-noir-est-derriere-eux/

 

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On 11/8/2019 at 12:34 PM, huey 2 said:

Gilles and Antoine . first to arrive

safe_image-1.jpg

congrats... back in 2003 the first 50ft multihull (Mollymawk) took almost twice the time! (she did loose a couple of days due to damage en route).... The current foiling 50ft tris are seriously fast
 

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4 hours ago, bonox said:

I think Apivia and the other 3 new boats (but HB) will change their foils before the VG after the Bull show off. Big disappointment on the new and first Juan K design  (Arkea) in spite of the broken foil. This is also a radical choice as HB and Charal. Interesting times ahead for monohull sailing.

Certainly Charal will change foils, this was announced a while ago and they should already be in build.  I would think Arkea will also use the opportunity to change since they have to change at least one anyway and we haven't heard why it broke.  The others may not have enough data from time on board.  One of the impacts of launching later in the cycle.  5 months to build new foils is almost 50% of the time between now and the VG.

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Why is that so long to build a foil ?

I understand this is a very high end piece of construction, but it stays carbon in a mould ?

Do they have to do it layer by layer ?

Or is this the time to gather enough carbon ?

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Clearly the bee's knees on a blast reach. But an Achilles heel on a drift?

charal-foiling-imoca-60-foils-credit-charal-sailing-team-630x394.jpg

Yes they are catching PRB at 2-3 knots currently. Advens not able to match them either, 2-3 knots down like Apivia was before the doldrums (around 2 knots slower typically).  Very fast boat already and hoping to make it even faster.

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Why so long to build a Foil . ??  Rotating shifts of laminators to continue the steps in two part molds....laminate layers laid...vacuum bag debaulk....cook in an autoclave with vacuum attachments inside...remove bagging....laminate layers laid again .  ..there is a set number at a time that you can lay before problems can occur but you also cant leave the job for contamination.. so morning ,afternoon & nightshifts ..the teams work through weekends not stopping till completion .   All layers and the orientation they sit are very accurately done with prepreg carbon but some special layers at the nose section and the trailing edge . Its exhausting work but now a well worn path.....

The same de rigour is for masts and multihull beams .   ...with the old system of making Uni layers they were thicker with more air in between but now the fibers for unis are unwound to flatten further thinning the unis so less air introduced ...which has to be removed when heat cycled make prepreg liquid

 

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an hour ago . 

 "We do not want to declare victory before, it's not our style. We do not think much about arrival, we are still in our rhythm of transatlantic. It's a beautiful day of navigation, the boat slides effortlessly, the sea is smooth!

 

EI9LJJ6W4AADu2A.jpg

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The tracker has gone near live with 10 minutes intervals. Nice work TJV and Georacing.

 Unless I’m mistaken and the wind vanishes, the ETA for Apivia is shortened. Wind stays up for now. DTF 38 nm / 19 kts = +/- 2 hours sailing. ETA is +/- 00:30 IMHO, based on extrapolation and if the wind stays as now.

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10 hours ago, L'attitude said:

These Class 40 guys are amazing, faster than some older generation IMOCAs. Some very interesting new designs as well. True transatlantic sailors.IMG_6023-2.thumb.JPG.71c6ce66d9e2887ba45f9c3b938b081d.JPG

Effective they maybe, but they’re uglier by the year. 

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Trying to follow this on the race website. Which, for us is useless. Map is mostly frozen, one tablet gives Apivia with 9.9 nm to go, another in same room says Charal leading, but with over 1000nm to go.

Wonder of modern information tech. When its most interesting it stops working!

 

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My tracker still stuck on 3nm, never mind, well done and very big winners indeed. PRB on 235nm, devastating!

Now they better start watching their wallets, bags, and their backs. Town is more dangerous than the ocean.

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24 hr average speeds, sorted from the 23:30 spreadsheet. Charal is gaining, but at +1.3 nm/hr, runway is pretty short

Charal Jeremie Beyou / Christopher Pratt 283.97 19.10 457.40
Advens for Cybersecurity Thomas Ruyant / Antoine Koch 324.60 17.80 426.60
PRB Kevin Escoffier / Nicolas Lunven 259.13 17.70 424.90
11th Hour Racing Charlie Enright / Pascal Bidegorry 324.54 16.80 402.30
Initiatives-Cœur Sam Davies / Paul Meilhat 390.50 16.50 396.10
Banque Populaire Clarisse Cremer / Armel le Cleac'h 349.23 15.00 359.20
Arkea - Paprec Sebastien Simon / Vincent Riou 432.82 14.00 336.70
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A4C is doing a remarkable job, when you consider they made a pit stop and could even still make the podium. That new boat is definitely on pace too. 2019 has certainly produced a fleet of very fast new IMOCA60s by the look. Exciting times to come.

 

Edited by Sailbydate
Missed a podium but close
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31 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

A4C is doing a remarkable job, when you consider they made a pit stop and could even still make the podium.

I guess at some point they remembered to ditch the fenders...Amazing effort for such a new boat, i hope they find the sponsors for VG.IMG_5761-2.thumb.JPG.7a53f0b58f1865099bcb37c7bf7e3ca5.JPG

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Arkea Paprec broke its second foil :

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/transat-jacques-vabre/transat-jacques-vabre-deuxieme-foil-casse-sur-arkea-paprec-10-11-2019-12429130.php?utm_source=rss_telegramme&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss&xtor=RSS-44

(without any apparent reason, not hitting something or whatever, doing 28 knts after the doldrums).

About the coming races, HB confirmed that they will do The Transat, right ?

(but not a  down wind race at all)

Charal will not do it I think, as they will be installing their new foils.

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4 minutes ago, BozoC said:

Are you sure Charal cannot finish 2nd ? 

If speed difference remains the same until the finish line, Charal may do it . 5.2 nm over 52 miles and 3 nm faster with 50 nm to finish 

The distance between the two has been about 10% of the distance to finish for quite some time now so I also think they´ve still got a chance to make it

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I presume PRB was looking for more pressure and wind outside off the coast. Or a better broad reaching angle. Or both. But has cost them dearly. You only have to stay clear of the Bank of St. Anthony which lays due south of the entrance to the bay.

PRB gybed, maybe a late attempt to cover Charal. Charal is at 2.1 nm within striking distance. 

 

image.thumb.png.e6b3d8545f1aff0598377f065699423c.png

 

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PRB now running with the tide too (low tide was an hour ago)

whew. Was afraid Charal and PRB would have a drifter into the harbour like last night. Live coverage should be better in daylight, too.

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Wow. After their gybe Charal was able to get up to speed quickly (regained their ~1.5 knot advantage), and looks like they can also sail deeper. Boat on boat drag race!

Must remind Lunven of many of his Solitaires and VOR in-port races ;) 

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