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Ttump just made it hard for legal/illegal's to get goverment $$$'s

So where does that put his wife? she an (il)legal on a visa and gets major taxpayer $$$'s 

"send her back"

I guess when we have not more mexican's here the white neon nazi's will be in the fields picking our fruits and vegs , that I have to see,

 

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I hate to even resemble a Trump "not supporter supporter", but his vicious motives and ham-handed idiocy asside, this raises two questions:

1. WTF - Illegals are not eligible for aid NOW except emergency medical care like any random person.

2. Pretty much every other 1st world country doesn't want potential welfare cases already excepting asylum seekers. I know this, I have been looking into escaping this shitshow and being past 50, even with good skills, seems already a huge strike against me.

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Can somebody with energy translate this one?   Is this medical assistance to dependent children of legal residents, often US citizens, or aid to adults?   Do we have reciprocity  with other governments?    I understand these are not green card holders, but people here legally on other papers.  Were any of them the few Iraqi or Afghanistan translators and or informants we allowed to hide in America after we started our draw down?   Those poor idiots trusted President Bush and put their lives and their families lives on the line to aid our invasion.  We left most of them behind to be tortured and killed.   Those few we saw fit to save do deserve aid IMO.   

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Friend of mine has been working to get his wife a green card.  For 8 years.  Stuck in bureaucratic hell, and he doesn't know whose palms to grease to get it all moving.

Want to fix the system?  Put a fucking system place that allows hard working individuals who want a better life to come to this damn country.  It's ridiculous.  Even after you GET a green card, you need to wait another 3 to go for citizenship.  The more I find out the more embarrassed I am.

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Wealthy European applicants will take priority over non-wealthy applicants from other areas of the globe.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/us/politics/trump-immigration-policy.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

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52 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Friend of mine has been working to get his wife a green card.  For 8 years.  Stuck in bureaucratic hell, and he doesn't know whose palms to grease to get it all moving.

Want to fix the system?  Put a fucking system place that allows hard working individuals who want a better life to come to this damn country.  It's ridiculous.  Even after you GET a green card, you need to wait another 3 to go for citizenship.  The more I find out the more embarrassed I am.

A local tree surgeon spent winters in Brazil with his wife.  It was easier then getting permission for her to come to the states.   After a couple years of that he retired and emigrated.    This predated Trump.   

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19 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Friend of mine has been working to get his wife a green card.  For 8 years.  Stuck in bureaucratic hell, and he doesn't know whose palms to grease to get it all moving.

Want to fix the system?  Put a fucking system place that allows hard working individuals who want a better life to come to this damn country.  It's ridiculous.  Even after you GET a green card, you need to wait another 3 to go for citizenship.  The more I find out the more embarrassed I am.

Indeed - let those who want to work come here, work legally, participate in the system, and SEPARATE THAT FROM THE REQUEST FOR CITIZENSHIP.   Jeff's oft mentioned comparison to the immigration policies of the UAE bears repeating:  They rigorously enforce their immigration laws, but, their laws and processes actually work in the 1st place.  Ours don't, and haven't for a long while - and the partisan hacks here hate accepting this, but neither party has done anything meaningful since Reagan was in office to actually fix anything - they both offer legislation that panders to their base, and vilifies the other side, while doing NOTHING to actually improve the efficacy of our immigration laws and processes. 

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Everybody waxes nostalgic about Ellis Island but that was a place of terror for immigrants — if the officials on the island thought immigrants were sickly, too old, likely to be a burden, etc, etc, they would put them back on the ship for return trip to Europe.

In the 70s immigrants had to have an “Affidavit of Support” from family, friends or churches whereby they would be responsible for the new immigrants such they would not become a public burden for a minimum of 5 years (at which point they became eligible for citizenship and all restrictions disappeared).

I don’t know but I suspect that these new rules are just tweaks that largely reflect “facts on the ground” anyway.

What confuses me about what’s going on these days, is the purpose and tone of the changes. They say they want people who can be productive and who can become fully-participating American citizens. If that is so, why are there no longer (like there were in the 70s) organizations where people volunteer to help new immigrants learn to speak / read / write English?

It seems like this would be a perfect sort of “whatever you do onto the least of these” sort of activity and it would go a long way towards getting people meeting and learning face-to-face, and it seems that people from the “bully pulpit” on down would be recruiting both students as well as teacher volunteers for these programs.

(I volunteered for a while at a program that tried to do this at the New York Public Library, but it was only in 3 branches and the vast majority of the people who showed up were college students and other long-term tourists, but almost no actual immigrants at all.)

Cheers,

Gabe

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Gabe_nyc said:

Everybody waxes nostalgic about Ellis Island but that was a place of terror for immigrants — if the officials on the island thought immigrants were sickly, too old, likely to be a burden, etc, etc, they would put them back on the ship for return trip to Europe.

In the 70s immigrants had to have an “Affidavit of Support” from family, friends or churches whereby they would be responsible for the new immigrants such they would not become a public burden for a minimum of 5 years (at which point they became eligible for citizenship and all restrictions disappeared).

I don’t know but I suspect that these new rules are just tweaks that largely reflect “facts on the ground” anyway.

What confuses me about what’s going on these days, is the purpose and tone of the changes. They say they want people who can be productive and who can become fully-participating American citizens. If that is so, why are there no longer (like there were in the 70s) organizations where people volunteer to help new immigrants learn to speak / read / write English?

It seems like this would be a perfect sort of “whatever you do onto the least of these” sort of activity and it would go a long way towards getting people meeting and learning face-to-face, and it seems that people from the “bully pulpit” on down would be recruiting both students as well as teacher volunteers for these programs.

(I volunteered for a while at a program that tried to do this at the New York Public Library, but it was only in 3 branches and the vast majority of the people who showed up were college students and other long-term tourists, but almost no actual immigrants at all.)

Cheers,

Gabe

 

 

I dunno what's wrong with NYC but around here there are a bunch of volunteer programs to help immigrants learn coping skills, literacy, better Engrish, even basic finance.

- DSK

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6 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Indeed - let those who want to work come here, work legally, participate in the system, and SEPARATE THAT FROM THE REQUEST FOR CITIZENSHIP.   

That would be a great way to grant a legal amnesty of sorts to undocumented workers and their families who are  staying away from crimes which should require their deportation.

They shouldn’t have the right to vote in state or federal elections, but should be counted by the census, and feel free to respond, and to indicate their citizenship status because it won’t lead to a vendetta by a racist administration or federal bureau of intimidation.

If they pay federal taxes, those taxes should not include social security or Medicare unless we plan to include them in those plans. Additional “guest worker” taxes should cover unemployment, disability, administration costs, and other eventualities to indemnify our nation against carrying their financial burdens. 

They would also need to declare where they & their dependents would go if required to leave. They should pay local school taxes, and so might legitimately deserve the right to vote during school board elections, perhaps for an “at large” representative or other such position.

ICE could go back to hiring agents chosen for language ability, empathy and social worker experience: all of which are more relevant to their daily tasks than the ability to engage in a firefight with terrorists or cartel soldiers.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno what's wrong with NYC but around here there are a bunch of volunteer programs to help immigrants learn coping skills, literacy, better Engrish, even basic finance.

A - none of us have the time to get into “what’s wrong w NYC” (:-)

B - I last looked 2 years ago. Stuff may have sprung up since, but if so, they’re being awfully quiet about it.

C - my basic point is that they are being “all stick / no carrot” about it which is sort of baffling. I doubt that the average Norwegian immigrant with a Comp Sci degree will be interested in washing dishes in a restaurant until midnight, picking tomatoes or working in a chicken processing plant ...

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18 minutes ago, bhyde said:

Have ICE arrest 600 CEO's that hire undocumented workers, maybe even separate them from their children, and the problem would go away tomorrow.

 Exactly - where are the people who HIRED all these undocs????? They aren't all standing around outside of Homey Depo  hoping for a day job. Focus as much attention on the demand as you do the supply. If the jobs go away, so will the pressure to immigrate here.

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1 hour ago, Gabe_nyc said:

A - none of us have the time to get into “what’s wrong w NYC” (:-)

B - I last looked 2 years ago. Stuff may have sprung up since, but if so, they’re being awfully quiet about it.

C - my basic point is that they are being “all stick / no carrot” about it which is sort of baffling. I doubt that the average Norwegian immigrant with a Comp Sci degree will be interested in washing dishes in a restaurant until midnight, picking tomatoes or working in a chicken processing plant ...

Well, a LOT of people seem to like it in NYC and the surrounding area.........

But I agree with your basic point, there should definitely be such programs and they should be easy to find.

Our immigration "system" is a horrendous mess and making it into a feeder for concentration camps is one of the worst ideas since W thought we should invade a country that had nothing to do with the Sept 11th mass murder.

- DSK

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I didn't see the reports about the ICE raids in Brighton Beach, NYC, or South Boston, but I'm sure they were thorough....:rolleyes:

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Wife and I were a bit confised at the headlines, as I had to do the affidavit of support thing for her, back in '06. 

Read the articles... it's just making the rule (which has been in place since the late 1800's, apparently) also apply to people who get residency through the lottery thingamabob.  They used to be exempt from it.  As, I believe, were & still are, refugees & asylum cases.

Look, I fuckin hate everything about this admin, but this one's a case of mountains out of molehills.  

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20 minutes ago, frenchie said:

Look, I fuckin hate everything about this admin, but this one's a case of mountains out of molehills.  

Statutorily, I agree that it’s (probably) not significant.

However, it’s one more drip, drip that says it’s ok to be mean and petty to all sorts of people if you happen not to approve of them.

I saw a video this morning of a woman yelling at two Koreans in a Starbucks. Whatever you might think of various ethnicities, Koreans have been exceptional in this country (work hard, go to church, study hard, super-nice, etc, etc), and I don’t think that there is any way that this woman would have felt empowered to freak out the way she did without a lot of the drip, drip, drips over the last couple of years:

 

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15 hours ago, phillysailor said:

That would be a great way to grant a legal amnesty of sorts to undocumented workers and their families who are  staying away from crimes which should require their deportation.

They shouldn’t have the right to vote in state or federal elections, but should be counted by the census, and feel free to respond, and to indicate their citizenship status because it won’t lead to a vendetta by a racist administration or federal bureau of intimidation.

If they pay federal taxes, those taxes should not include social security or Medicare unless we plan to include them in those plans. Additional “guest worker” taxes should cover unemployment, disability, administration costs, and other eventualities to indemnify our nation against carrying their financial burdens. 

They would also need to declare where they & their dependents would go if required to leave. They should pay local school taxes, and so might legitimately deserve the right to vote during school board elections, perhaps for an “at large” representative or other such position.

ICE could go back to hiring agents chosen for language ability, empathy and social worker experience: all of which are more relevant to their daily tasks than the ability to engage in a firefight with terrorists or cartel soldiers.

Now your talking!   This isn't that hard - I don't know why so many people want to make it so. 

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7 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
22 hours ago, phillysailor said:

That would be a great way to grant a legal amnesty of sorts to undocumented workers and their families who are  staying away from crimes which should require their deportation.

They shouldn’t have the right to vote in state or federal elections, but should be counted by the census, and feel free to respond, and to indicate their citizenship status because it won’t lead to a vendetta by a racist administration or federal bureau of intimidation.

If they pay federal taxes, those taxes should not include social security or Medicare unless we plan to include them in those plans. Additional “guest worker” taxes should cover unemployment, disability, administration costs, and other eventualities to indemnify our nation against carrying their financial burdens. 

They would also need to declare where they & their dependents would go if required to leave. They should pay local school taxes, and so might legitimately deserve the right to vote during school board elections, perhaps for an “at large” representative or other such position.

ICE could go back to hiring agents chosen for language ability, empathy and social worker experience: all of which are more relevant to their daily tasks than the ability to engage in a firefight with terrorists or cartel soldiers.

Now your talking!   This isn't that hard - I don't know why so many people want to make it so. 

 

What lobbyists are going to write legislation like this? You forget who Congress is working for....... it ain't us.

- DSK

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Excerpt from “The New Colossus” -

“Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand / a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame / is the imprisoned lightning, and her name / Mother of Exiles.”

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