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14 minutes ago, GBH said:

Will get the dog label whether deserved or not now, resale 'value' just halved or vanished. Can't see HB staying in the game after this, no results or returns for some pretty serious dosh.

Apivia truly impressive!

 

Agree that for resale value, having no results is kind of bad, and they should definitely do the TJV to prove doubters wrong. On the other hand, if we look forward to the next VG, it isn't super obvious what kind of a boat will needed to win. Foil and Sail plan update will anyway be necessary 

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Screw work. I'd rather crack a cold one, sit out on the deck and finish this post. Gosh, and it is not even 4:20. Before moving to AT, I like Nicolas Andrieu's (Team Charal) quote in Seahorse Mag

Very interesting interview by Voiles et Voiliers (the mainstream sailing magazine in France): as usual Michel Desjoyeaux has very strong opinions and he is not afraid to put them out there! So he

Full on foiling with T-rudders as tried by Bureau Valée https://www.imoca.org/en/news/news/bureau-vallee-tests-t-rudder-

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11th Hour Racing's new boat.! Been optimised for 5 crew and has 360 Degree vision from enclosed cockpit. Chines and bow shape looks to be latest thinking. No scow bow but lot's of volume up there. Also been optimised for a wide range of conditions re Volvo race unlike Vendee. 

 

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On 8/10/2021 at 2:05 AM, NZK said:

In other news, 11th Hour seem to have incorporated a sneaky little shitter into their central pushpit.....

11th-Hour_cropped-2.jpg

Double grab handles! Fucking luxury!

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3 minutes ago, NZK said:

That freeze-dried doesn't walk itself out of the door

At least you know you won't be shot into orbit when it departs.

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That is a very aggressive bulb shape.

It might be just the angle, but the transition from max volume a bit behind the fin into the pressure recovery area is steep to my eye. Maybe optimized for higher speeds than I'm used to.

image.png.6e59bd00d03c82f224eb34b70fd9caf9.png

 

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Most bulbs are vertically squashed a bit but maybe if you're canting them, the VCG change isn't needed and drag reduction is king. I see what you mean. The port side looks more normal.

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Most of the info is in the vid above

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Le nouvel Imoca de l’équipe 11th Hour, basée à Concarneau tranche clairement avec son prédécesseur. Coloré sur le thème d’un vitrail art déco, il se différencie aussi par sa forme de carène, son pont plat et ses foils en S. Visite guidée par ceux qui le mèneront, en double sur la Transat Jacques Vabre, Charlie Enright et Pascal Bidegorry

MjAyMTA4MGVjZjAzYzhlN2RmYjYwMDlhODNiNjkzNjA2YmRjNWE?width=630&focuspoint=50%2C25&cropresize=1&client_id=bpeditorial&sign=a2b64b190feb2940c802a0c7fe645c8444ad225f11b41e92fec191a7e195f205 Pascal Bidegorry et Charlie Enright. | OUEST-FRANCE

Étrave spatulée

C’est devenu la tendance en Imoca. Fini les étraves fines et droites, place aux étraves spatulées ou au nez rond en forme de scow. Celle d’11th Hour ne fait pas exception à la nouvelle règle. Ce n’est pas vraiment un scow, mais elle est quand même très spatulée » ccommente Pascal Bidégorry. Objectif : permettre au bateau de surfer sur la vague le précédant et non de s’y enfoncer. L’étrave de ce nouveau plan Verdier s’inspire de ce que l’architecte avait déjà dessiné pour Apivia, l’Imoca de Charlie Dalin.

MjAyMTA4N2JkYzlmYzBkOGIzYWYzMDYzNmUzMWZiMTQ4ZTQyZWE?width=630&focuspoint=50%2C25&cropresize=1&client_id=bpeditorial&sign=25d58cefbeb40ea94acb0cdbee26b25044308b714c009a05a9fcb83fca90ad2d La forme de la carène est évasée. | 11TH HOUR

Carène évasée

A l’oeil c’est probablement ce qui frappe le plus quand on découvre 11th Hour 2. Sous la ligne de bouchains, la coque prend une forme évasée jusqu’au fond de coque. Quand le bateau navigue à plat, il y a moins de traînée et de surface mouillée. En revanche à la gîte à partir de 10°, on trouve déjà de l’appui sur la carène.L’idée générale, et même si les foils restent le moteur du bateau, c’est d’avoir une carène plus polyvalente. C’est bateau conçu pour The Ocean Race, rappelle Pascal Bidégorry, où le parcours est plus varié que sur un Vendée Globe. On peut avoir, au total quatre passages de pot au noir, en Atlantique et dans le Pacifiqueprécise de son côté Charlie Enright.

Pont aérodynamique

Outre l’aspect pratique, le pont, toujours en forme d’aile de mouette inversée priorise un centre de gravité le plus bas possible. Dans ce souci-là, mais aussi dans l’optique d’avoir une voile d’avant dont la bordure est au ras du pont, les enrouleurs et points d’amures ont été installés dans une petite fosse, fermée par un carénage. Pour les voiles d’avant aussi, on recherche l’effet plaque. Une innovation que l’on retrouve aussi sur le maxi trimaran SVR Lazartigue de François Gabart.

MjAyMTA4N2Y2MzNlZjdlODFiZDkwNTI4YmI0Mzc4ZDBiYmE5ODc?width=630&focuspoint=50%2C25&cropresize=1&client_id=bpeditorial&sign=51e9a81d4c61f562ae824eb4cdb44d55fa57ba3bb2802a66ae2cfde7d0396c8e La ligne de pont est très aérodynamique. | 11TH HOUR.

Foils en S

Ils ne seront visibles, officiellement qu’en début de semaine. Charlie Enright a néanmoins accepté de les montrer. Et ce sera le deuxième effet surprise de ce nouveau bateau. Après les formes en L, en V, en C, ceux de 11th Hour tiendrait plutôt du S. Leur forme est unique à ce jour. Avec un shaft qui permet selon son degré d’immersion dans le puits, de faire varier considérablement l’angle de poussée du tip (la partie immergée). L’idée c’est d’avoir un foil très puissant, car le bateau sera mené en équipage et il pourra être réglé en permanence quant à son angulation.

Cockpit élargi

Guillaume Verdier avait déjà conçu pour Apivia, un cockpit quasi fermé, protégeant parfaitement son skipper. L’idée est reprise sur 11th Hour en étant encore un peu plus développée. Il pourra accueillir assez confortablement cinq équipiers. Il est clos jusqu’à la barre d’écoute de grand-voile, qui elle est droite et non courbe. C’est l’american style »,chambre Bidégorry. Le cockpit a fait l’objet également d’un travail sur l’aérodynamique, avec une forme qui n’est pas sans rappeler celle d’Hugo Boss. Le cockpit couvert prend aussi presque toute la largeur. Le barreur-pilote, peut ainsi de son poste bénéficier à travers une bulle plastique d’une vue dégagée sur ses voiles et sur la zone au vent. La répartition des gros winchs prend en compte le vaste espace. Une deuxième colonne, « moulin à café » pourra être installée pour le tour du monde.

MjAyMTA4ZDIwZDM5MzZhYTI0MjE3ZTUyZmZkNmJiNjg1Y2JkYzg?width=630&focuspoint=50%2C25&cropresize=1&client_id=bpeditorial&sign=557027b2fc24230619fbc6d0934b42687dbd169e9bcb33ad18850de7ca04ad0e Le cockpit est fermé et se prolonge jusqu’à la barre d’écoute de grand-voile. | 11TH HOUR

Poids alourdi

Conçu pour être mené en équipage, sur un tour du monde de 45 000 milles (contre 25 pour un Vendée Globe), avec des étapes intenses, 11th Hour a une structure sensiblement renforcée. Et je les connais, les Anglo-Saxons tirent dessus très fort, donc faut que ça tienne », rit le skipper basque. Conséquence évidente : le poids de ce nouvel Imoca, même s’il n’a pas été dévoilé, est nettement plus lourdque ceux de la dernière génération, conçu pour le Vendée Globe (environ 7,5 tonnes).

Matériaux biosourcés

Si tout ce qui est structurant est en carbone sur le bateau, l’équipe d’11th Hour a tenu à intégrer pour ce qui ne l’est pas, des matériaux dits biosourcés, recyclables. Ainsi les portes du cockpit ont été construites en fibre de lin, tout comme diverses pièces de la soute et le coffrage du moteur. C’est un début, nous voulons montrer l’exemple souligne Charlie Enright. C’est pourquoi nous avons réalisé une analyse complète du cycle de vie au cours du processus de construction, afin de déterminer l’impact environnemental des différents composants et des procédures.

 

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les enrouleurs et points d’amures ont été installés dans une petite fosse, fermée par un carénage.

Didn't notice that one before, so the furlers will also be below deck

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

Didn't notice that one before, so the furlers will also be below deck

 I wonder if the furling lines will deflect up onto deck or go aft inside the hull in sealed conduits for the full gains (harder to replace if there are any issues)?

Gabart and his Mer Concept team really do seem to be pushing their development at a level above anyone else right now (except maybe the Boss team but they just struggle to deliver on results).

 

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1 hour ago, NZK said:

 I wonder if the furling lines will deflect up onto deck or go aft inside the hull in sealed conduits for the full gains (harder to replace if there are any issues)?

Gabart and his Mer Concept team really do seem to be pushing their development at a level above anyone else right now (except maybe the Boss team but they just struggle to deliver on results).

 

Even the IMOCA with furling gear on deck have been running the lines inside for a while now.

It will be interesting to see if anyone comes along with a newer boat, if the rumoured delay happens.  Though I doubt it, 11th Hour seem to be the only team throwing money enough money at the next Ocean Race.

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1 minute ago, Potter said:

Even the IMOCA with furling gear on deck have been running the lines inside for a while now.

Yeah I realised that just after posting the response....

I doubt we'll see another new TOR specific boat, maybe some of the new IMOCAs will end up participating in the TOR if it doesn't impact the Vendee schedule.

I'm interested to see how the new PRB turns out - I got the impression from the interview with Kevin that it was early enough on the build that he'll have pretty free-reign to design deck layout and systems etc. His experience could lead to some very interesting design choices.

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5 hours ago, yl75 said:

les enrouleurs et points d’amures ont été installés dans une petite fosse, fermée par un carénage.

Didn't notice that one before, so the furlers will also be below deck

If by "below deck", you mean "inside the boat", that is not the way I understand it... I would translate more or less word for word the statement above from French to English to:

"The furlers and the tack anchor points have been installed in a small trough, with a fairing cover on top of it."

The way I understand it, the deck has a dip along the centerline, the furlers are inside that dip, and there is a cover on top of it, to make the deck appearance flush. But the furlers are not inside the hull.

A picture of the installation would be nice... :D

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33 minutes ago, Laurent said:

"The furlers and the tack anchor points have been installed in a small trough, with a fairing cover on top of it."

This is how I understood it too. A lot of the inshore grand-prix boats have sunken troughs for the headsail tacks to maximise luff length and help endplate the foot against the deck - some boats use a soft/material fairing covering across the top of the trough to try and maximise the endplate but typically you need access to these spaces whilst the fairings are installed so they are fucking finickity to make and use.

If 11th Hour have integrated a sliding or removable composite fairing then it'd be really cool - something like the forward hatch covers on the TPs and Maxis with a small cut-out for the tack strop/cable could be fairly straightforward. 

On the other hand the TPs are using fully internal furlers for the spinnaker staysails with a penetration through the deck for the tack fitting - apart from the potential of it being an absolute washing machine ride trying to do any service work to these from the inside the bow areas it could be a really neat solution. I guess it'd be harder to connect a headsail to a recessed tack fitting compared to a regular deck furler when you're getting fire-hosed on the bow at full noise. I'm also not sure if these systems have any tack adjustment - it'll work for a GS on a 52 because you can get enough cable tension from the boys on the handles but I'd expect you need to keep tack adjustment on the IMOCAs and that would make any deck penetrations hard to keep waterproof.

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The trough for the furling lines with the removable cover also creates a nice longitudinal stiffener. So a nice structural win as well.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Jörg Riechers is getting a new boat from Farr (Guillaume Dupont who worked on Charal and HB at VPLP also involved, Étienne Bertrand as well) :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/course-au-large/vendee-globe/entretien-vendee-globe-un-bateau-neuf-pour-l-allemand-joerg-riechers-le-projet-d-une-vie-c999d3d8-10b0-11ec-8329-2c7d89b1c9cd 

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On 9/9/2021 at 2:56 PM, yl75 said:

Jörg Riechers is getting a new boat from Farr (Guillaume Dupont who worked on Charal and HB at VPLP also involved, Étienne Bertrand as well) :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/course-au-large/vendee-globe/ Entretien-vendee-globe-un-bateau-neuf-pour-l-allemand-joerg-riechers-le-projet-d- one-life-c999d3d8-10b0-11ec-8329-2c7d89b1c9cd 

Yes interesting why some sailors go to a lesser known route for design in a field which is being dominated by a few designers. Is it design price or the hope that someone lesser known can design something faster than the big names in the game? Dupont is obviously vert talented but always curious as to why? 11th Hour racing looks like a very balanced and fast boat. 

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3 hours ago, yl75 said:

I bet they are pushing for it. So much more control and less slamming back down off the foils. Would love to see them test the T-Foil Rudders in a Sea State. 

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Thought this might be interesting to you all ;) All new boats currently being built for the next cycle.

A couple interesting things to note: 

Sam Davies - Manuard - not yet announced. 

Alex Thomson - I don't believe this one for a minute 

Yoann Richomme is most likely the new skipper of Arkea Paprec. 

And my understanding is that the two of the confidential boats will be non-foiling scow bows brought to the world by JLC following his comments about price increase / breakages on a VG course. The third is Armel Tripon with the support (not financial backing) of Airbus...

Note also that of the 14 boats being built - only one has muted the idea of The Ocean Race, oops... 

 

611344814_Screenshot2021-09-14at10_28_48.thumb.png.6ceb0c80a52cc0c594e09058c66f4f8d.png

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3 hours ago, furler49 said:

Thought this might be interesting to you all ;) All new boats currently being built for the next cycle.

A couple interesting things to note: 

Sam Davies - Manuard - not yet announced. 

Alex Thomson - I don't believe this one for a minute 

Yoann Richomme is most likely the new skipper of Arkea Paprec. 

And my understanding is that the two of the confidential boats will be non-foiling scow bows brought to the world by JLC following his comments about price increase / breakages on a VG course. The third is Armel Tripon with the support (not financial backing) of Airbus...

Note also that of the 14 boats being built - only one has muted the idea of The Ocean Race, oops... 

 

611344814_Screenshot2021-09-14at10_28_48.thumb.png.6ceb0c80a52cc0c594e09058c66f4f8d.png

Even 8 new boats would be great news for the IMOCA. 14 is insane and it's likely going to be around 9-12 if your infos are to be believed and that's amazing. Thanks for the nice spreadsheet table :)

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Last post in this thread 11hrs ago, which reminded me to post this one:

https://www.11thhourracingteam.org/news/art-goes-offshore-on-11th-hour-racing-teams-new-imoca-60/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=112_ART

Includes this video:

Happy to see at least 1 (one) serieus TOR entrants...

 

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16 hours ago, furler49 said:

Thought this might be interesting to you all ;) All new boats currently being built for the next cycle.

A couple interesting things to note: 

Sam Davies - Manuard - not yet announced. 

Alex Thomson - I don't believe this one for a minute 

Yoann Richomme is most likely the new skipper of Arkea Paprec. 

And my understanding is that the two of the confidential boats will be non-foiling scow bows brought to the world by JLC following his comments about price increase / breakages on a VG course. The third is Armel Tripon with the support (not financial backing) of Airbus ...

Note also that of the 14 boats being built - only one has muted the idea of The Ocean Race, oops ... 

 

611344814_Screenshot2021-09-14at10_28_48.thumb.png.6ceb0c80a52cc0c594e09058c66f4f8d.png

I'd be shocked if Alex raced the Vendee ever again.! His performance in the Fastnet race wasn't a highlight of his career. 

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

I'd be shocked if Alex raced the Vendee ever again.! His performance in the Fastnet race wasn't a highlight of his career. 

That's a bit harsh don't you think? Yeah the latest boat is a bit of a dog, but there's nothing saying a couple of mods to the cockpit area and foils wouldn't turn the fate of that boat, and he himself is certainly not a bad sailor...

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21 hours ago, Fintho said:

That's a bit harsh don't you think? Yeah the latest boat is a bit of a dog, but there's nothing saying a couple of mods to the cockpit area and foils wouldn't turn the fate of that boat, and he himself is certainly not a bad sailor ...

No not really I don't believe Alex will do the next Vendee. He is getting on in age and I don't think the passion is there anymore. And his performance in the Fastnet wasn't a highlight of his career. Would you prefer if I said his performae was great even though he basically finished last? Nothing harsh in this whatsoever IMO.

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On 9/14/2021 at 1:57 AM, Maus1983 said:

Full on foiling with T-rudders as tried by Bureau Valée

https://www.imoca.org/en/news/news/bureau-vallee-tests-t-rudder-

They were doing 33 knts in 17 knts of speed according to Burton :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/skipper/louis-burton/video-louis-burton-s-explique-sur-le-plan-porteur-prohibe-sur-son-imoca-hallucinant-8952449a-16dc-11ec-9d1c-90f97b8e3fa5

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3 hours ago, staysail said:

Another race. Apivia in the lead  -  again!  -  by one and a half miles, with the next seven boats all within the next half mile. Close light wind racing.

Mumbling again?

Thanks for a concise post, but a link would be appreciated. 

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The answer just came in: 

Following a technical issue overnight in the Défi Azimut 48 hour race, 11th Hour Racing Team - Mālama skippers Charlie Enright and Pascal Bidégorry made the decision to return to Lorient. ETA around 9am.

The sailors have informed race management they will retire from the 48 hour race. All crew onboard are fine.

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I wonder what Charlie has optimised on Apivia?  Any thoughts?  He's, once again, significantly faster -  he's gained 2 miles on the rest whilst I''ve been having breakfast. Now 15 miles ahead of Linked out at the 1st turn marker. At the mark he was flying along at 26 knots....

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16 minutes ago, wildbirdtoo said:

I wonder what Charlie has optimised on Apivia?  Any thoughts?  He's, once again, significantly faster -  he's gained 2 miles on the rest whilst I''ve been having breakfast. Now 15 miles ahead of Linked out at the 1st turn marker. At the mark he was flying along at 26 knots....

New foils is what I understand. Incredible results though.

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2 hours ago, staysail said:
2 hours ago, wildbirdtoo said:

I wonder what Charlie has optimised on Apivia?  Any thoughts?  He's, once again, significantly faster -  he's gained 2 miles on the rest whilst I''ve been having breakfast. Now 15 miles ahead of Linked out at the 1st turn marker. At the mark he was flying along at 26 knots....

New foils is what I understand. Incredible results though.

Yes Charlie is in another league. Those of you who watched the start of the Fastnet Race would have seen something special. He went past Charal and Hugo Boss to leeward like they were standing still.! I haven't seen a speed difference like that since Larry's Tri with a wingsail blew the Swiss Cat out of the water.! New foils and whilst Charlie played it down, he did say they were foiling upwind a lot, something they have been unable to do in the past. It seems to me Charlie has widened his foiling angles and has an upwind mode that he is utilizing. The speed run was irrelevant in those light conditions IMO. 

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Indeed the advance Charlie has is quite amazing. 

I don't what are his plans for the next VG, is a new Hull really needed? Does he plan to do it? 

Beyou is getting a new boat from Manuard, but Charlie? 

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19 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Indeed the advance Charlie has is quite amazing. 

I don't what are his plans for the next VG, is a new Hull really needed? Does he plan to do it? 

Beyou is getting a new boat from Manuard, but Charlie? 

As far as I understand, he's not getting a new boat- don't think he needs to! Very impressive performance in the Fastnet. Reading his tweets and post Fastnet interviews, I think even he was surprised by foiling upwind, I guess its a new thing for IMOCA- or at least Charlies. its a step change, and unless others crack the code (and if no "Act of God" intervenes in a race), he's really in a class of his own- will be interesting to watch the TJV.   

.. and between breakfast and lunch he's gained another 10 miles- 25 miles ahead of Linked out now...  

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57 minutes ago, wildbirdtoo said:

As far as I understand, he's not getting a new boat- don't think he needs to! Very impressive performance in the Fastnet. Reading his tweets and post Fastnet interviews, I think even he was surprised by foiling upwind, I guess its a new thing for IMOCA- or at least Charlies. its a step change, and unless others crack the code (and if no "Act of God" intervenes in a race), he's really in a class of his own- will be interesting to watch the TJV.   

.. and between breakfast and lunch he's gained another 10 miles- 25 miles ahead of Linked out now...  

He said the upwind foiling was possible, because they didn't have the waves related to the windspeed. Normally not possible in common IMOCA territory. 

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On 9/17/2021 at 3:45 PM, wildbirdtoo said:

As far as I understand, he's not getting a new boat- don't think he needs to! Very impressive performance in the Fastnet. Reading his tweets and post Fastnet interviews, I think even he was surprised by foiling upwind, I guess its a new thing for IMOCA- or at least Charlies. its a step change, and unless others crack the code (and if no "Act of God" intervenes in a race), he's really in a class of his own- will be interesting to watch the TJV.   

.. and between breakfast and lunch he's gained another 10 miles- 25 miles ahead of Linked out now...  

Indeed but if he has the possibility to get a new boat, the choice must be tough, except for the last VG, I'm not sure if anybody ever won with a boat not from the last cycle.

But now with the importance of the foils, and the fact that no rudder elevator are permitted for the next one, indeed keeping on optimizing what they have might be the best solution.

(maybe what Alex should have done ..)

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4 hours ago, yl75 said:

except for the last VG, I'm not sure if anybody ever won with a boat not from the last cycle.

The last VG was won by a 2014 boat, so including the last VG... etc etc.

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Alex's old boat continues to perform well. 2nd in the Defi Azimut 2 hours behind Apivia but ahead of Linked Out and the other newer boats. Pity the new 11th Hour Racing 11.2 retired it would have been good to see how it performed against Apivia etc. 

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On 9/17/2021 at 4:29 PM, terrafirma said:

What happened to 11th Hour 11.2 the new boat retiring from the Défi Azimut? Also are there any videos of the speed run which 11th hour beat Apivia and so forth?

A bit of coverage here, Terra. Not particularly exciting viewing:

 

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On 9/16/2021 at 9:29 PM, terrafirma said:

What happened to 11th Hour 11.2 the new boat retiring from the Défi Azimut? Also are there any videos of the speed run which 11th hour beat Apivia and so forth?

Apparently a low bar, performance wise, to continue the funding...

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12 hours ago, Virgulino Ferreira said:

Intense! Go Go Go Isabelle!!!

Isabelle and her team + Ronan Gladu are doing a great job releasing well made and interesting videos shortly after the races. Like. 

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