Old racers sitting unloved, what are they?

[PaulinVictoria 99]

Was up on Gabriola Island over the weekend, noticed a couple of racy looking numbers sitting unloved at the docks, kinda cool but much un-sailed it seems. Any idea what they are?

Traveller extends outside the deck, cassette rudder, huuuuge space behind the helm for hanging out.

Pretty sure the fishing station and BBQ wasn't standard

 

This one was a bit of a mini Imoca60

 

 

[Rain Man 951]

Calling Uncle Krusty!  Perhaps he can shed some light on these.  I have seen the one with the weird traveller quite a bit - it has been slowly restored in the yard there over the last 15 years or so.   It seems to have slid back down the hill somewhat from the photos.

Someone told me the story behind that boat once, but I was probably drunk at the time and killed those brain cells.

 

[44forty 166]

What the Sam Hill is that gantry type of thing on the transom of the first boat ? Do they go crabbing off of the stern ? 

[stumblingthunder 576]

29 minutes ago, Cazzate said:

What the Sam Hill is that gantry type of thing on the transom of the first boat ? Do they go crabbing off of the stern ? 

Don't you recognize it?

Its West Marine's universal multi-function, wind instrument, antenna mount, deck light, fish cleaning station and grill mount!   A best seller.

- Stumbling

[Gorn FRANTIC!! 404]

2 hours ago, Cazzate said:

What the Sam Hill is that gantry type of thing on the transom of the first boat ? Do they go crabbing off of the stern ? 

Looks like something out of a fucking Dr Suess book.

[BravoBravo 666]

other than the ridiculous notion that it needed 8" extra of traveler I like it....restored of course...wonder what the laminate is

[ROADKILL666 339]

Love the lights in the doghouse on the first on

[Bus Driver 4,405]

1 hour ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

4 hours ago, Cazzate said:

What the Sam Hill is that gantry type of thing on the transom of the first boat ? Do they go crabbing off of the stern ? 

Looks like something out of a fucking Dr Suess book.

How about that transom mounted rudder assembly, with cassette for lifting rudder?

[BravoBravo 666]

The boat I helped build over 50 years ago and did 2 SORC's and a Jamaica Race...I stood on its deck and saw her for the first time a few months ago...before and after 

 

[SloopJonB 8,577]

That traveller is one of the dumber installations I've seen over the years. Looks like the boom is broken too.

[Expat Canuck 70]

The first one (the 40-ish footer) is a Russian built boat.  Despite the looks, it does get used a fair bit, albeit mostly for fishing these days.  At one time we were chatting about selling him some second (or fourth) hand sails from the ILC 40.

The second one came from the UK, I believe, and was raced in the OSTAR or something similar.  Last I heard, it was for sale by the kids of the very old (or perhaps deceased?) owner.

[Expat Canuck 70]

1 hour ago, Expat Canuck said:

The first one (the 40-ish footer) is a Russian built boat.  Despite the looks, it does get used a fair bit, albeit mostly for fishing these days.  At one time we were chatting about selling him some second (or fourth) hand sails from the ILC 40.

The second one came from the UK, I believe, and was raced in the OSTAR or something similar.  Last I heard, it was for sale by the kids of the very old (or perhaps deceased?) owner.

 

Well, I can't seem to edit my post.  I knew I should have checked before opening my mouth.

 

So, the correct information is (per the management of the resort where they are tied up):

 

The smaller one belongs to and is loved very much by Michael Birch.  https://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/elaine-bunting/mike-birch-is-back-5346

 

And the larger one is in the probate process, so while looking a little shabby, she has a number of people hoping to continue her story.

 

[Bugsy 448]

That paint job on the topsides (first picture) is an abomination. 

Note that St Patrick's cross is missing from the painted on union jack (the red X).  That was the UK national flag some hundreds of years ago.... not sure what kind of statement is trying to be made.  

Otherwise a fine looking but sadly neglected boat.  

 

[44forty 166]

14 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Love the lights in the doghouse on the first on

Well spotted ! The more you look at the boat the more you see . Lots of midnight lightbulb ideas in evidence 

[VWAP 1,020]

Really old dudes who pretend to have been racers end up over in PA

[Alcatraz5768 415]

wonder if the rutter on the first boat is designed to cant. If you look at the closeup it looks like a bearing in the tube in front of the stainless pintle thingy. 

[Mitre cut 68]

It does look suspiciously like a horizontal bearing on that rutter, I'm sure the boat is full of special tricks like that.

[bighugh 3]

13 hours ago, Expat Canuck said:

 

Well, I can't seem to edit my post.  I knew I should have checked before opening my mouth.

 

So, the correct information is (per the management of the resort where they are tied up):

 

The smaller one belongs to and is loved very much by Michael Birch.  https://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/elaine-bunting/mike-birch-is-back-5346

 

And the larger one is in the probate process, so while looking a little shabby, she has a number of people hoping to continue her story.

 

I did a delivery from England to Italy with Mike Birch after the Admiral's Cup way back in 1975. He was by far the most accomplished sailor I ever sailed with and a terrific person as well. I treasure the memory.

[stumblingthunder 576]

18 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

The boat I helped build over 50 years ago and did 2 SORC's and a Jamaica Race...I stood on its deck and saw her for the first time a few months ago...before and after 

 

Man, that is long ago.   Is that one of the Byars boats?

- Stumbling

[BravoBravo 666]

2 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

Man, that is long ago.   Is that one of the Byars boats?

- Stumbling

Lee Creekmore 

[Steam Flyer 5,276]

6 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

wonder if the rutter on the first boat is designed to cant. If you look at the closeup it looks like a bearing in the tube in front of the stainless pintle thingy. 

It does, I wondered about that too. It also looks like the fasteners are suspiciously wimpy.

I wonder if this is a self-steering blade rather than a rudder.

FB- Doug

[stumblingthunder 576]

10 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Lee Creekmore 

Ah, similar thoughts.

- Stumbling

[ROADKILL666 339]

35 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Lee Creekmore 

My dad had one of Lee's designs it was a Creekmore 23.I remember going to his yard in medley Fl as a kid.Don't know if anyone remembers the name Sunny too. 

[BravoBravo 666]

8 minutes ago, ROADKILL666 said:

My dad had one of Lee's designs it was a Creekmore 23.I remember going to his yard in medley Fl as a kid.Don't know if anyone remembers the name Sunny too. 

Ray Creekmore's Medley yard AKA "Dogpatch" photo... I remember seeing "Sunny" in Miami there were a few of the 23's sailing BBYRA  " Vendetta" was the one I was most familiar with

[billy backstay 1,006]

8 hours ago, Mitre cut said:

It does look suspiciously like a horizontal bearing on that rutter, I'm sure the boat is full of special tricks like that.

 

I don't think the rudder cants, it would not allow the stainless strut that controls it to work....

[Unkle Krusty 81]

On 8/14/2019 at 12:06 AM, dash34 said:

Calling Uncle Krusty!  Perhaps he can shed some light on these.  I have seen the one with the weird traveller quite a bit - it has been slowly restored in the yard there over the last 15 years or so.   It seems to have slid back down the hill somewhat from the photos.

Someone told me the story behind that boat once, but I was probably drunk at the time and killed those brain cells.

 

Yikes. That could be me. If anyone comes to my Island, let me know. However I was on the mainland last weekend. I am near Silva Bay on South Road. Grolsch, my Tanzer 22 is parked out front. My much loved Viking 33 is in the Bay, and can be seen from the docks. The two boats in question. Dead guy, French guy, should explain it. The dead guy is Mike the Greek. Used to run the shipyard. Nephew is in charge of the estate. Probably a mess. He designed and built the boat himself, although I hear his ex wife did the glass work. I never saw it sail. Did see it motoring to check on other folks crab traps. The French guy showed up about two years ago. Rig always looks like it will fall over. The is also a 5 meter boat about, probably in Degnen. Main action on the Island, is darts Friday nights at the golf club. I will be close to home this year, as I am starting to build sheds and a cottage. First summer I have not been out on the boat for many years. 

[spankoka 139]

7 hours ago, Unkle Krusty said:

 Did see it motoring to check on other folks crab traps. 

Wow! That can have serious consequences on the east coast. 

[44forty 166]

8 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

I don't think the rudder cants, it would not allow the stainless strut that controls it to work....

There may be a universal on that steering tie-rod on the other side of the cassette ?  Can’t see any other reason for hanging a rudder on the end of a bloody great tube and if you look close at the gudgeon you can see a bunch of machine screws or something in a circle , it ain’t fixed to the transom .

[Rain Man 951]

The sheer on that boat looks very Davidson. Possibly influenced by The Dash?  It looks like a Dash from the front and another Davidson "Canvasback" from the rear.

[12 metre 389]

The only Canvasback I recall in PNW was the Kirby 36 1Ton.  Sailed out of Vic in the early/mid 80's.  Production boat built in Ontario  (Scorpio Yachts?) https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/kirby-36

About the same upwind speed as the P35's, but faster off the wind.  Overall probably had a slight edge over the P35s - but hey, the P35 was a 10 year older design.

She was moored and for sale at Shelter Island Marina maybe 3 years ago.

Of course there may have been another Canvasback in PNW that I am not aware of.  In which case ignore what I just said.

[PaulinVictoria 99]

14 hours ago, Unkle Krusty said:

Yikes. That could be me. If anyone comes to my Island, let me know. However I was on the mainland last weekend. I am near Silva Bay on South Road. Grolsch, my Tanzer 22 is parked out front. My much loved Viking 33 is in the Bay, and can be seen from the docks. The two boats in question. Dead guy, French guy, should explain it. The dead guy is Mike the Greek. Used to run the shipyard. Nephew is in charge of the estate. Probably a mess. He designed and built the boat himself, although I hear his ex wife did the glass work. I never saw it sail. Did see it motoring to check on other folks crab traps. The French guy showed up about two years ago. Rig always looks like it will fall over. The is also a 5 meter boat about, probably in Degnen. Main action on the Island, is darts Friday nights at the golf club. I will be close to home this year, as I am starting to build sheds and a cottage. First summer I have not been out on the boat for many years. 

Heh, drove past your place a few times then based on the T22 out front, we were camping at Page's down the road.

[Rain Man 951]

3 hours ago, 12 metre said:

The only Canvasback I recall in PNW was the Kirby 36 1Ton.  Sailed out of Vic in the early/mid 80's.  Production boat built in Ontario  (Scorpio Yachts?) https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/kirby-36

About the same upwind speed as the P35's, but faster off the wind.  Overall probably had a slight edge over the P35s - but hey, the P35 was a 10 year older design.

She was moored and for sale at Shelter Island Marina maybe 3 years ago.

Of course there may have been another Canvasback in PNW that I am not aware of.  In which case ignore what I just said.

Nah, I think you're right.  Somehow I thought it was a 'Davidson. 

[LarryE 41]

23 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

My dad had one of Lee's designs it was a Creekmore 23.I remember going to his yard in medley Fl as a kid.Don't know if anyone remembers the name Sunny too. 

Sunny Too was owned by Dr John Hastings, Vendetta was owned by Tommy and Pat Richards. There was one more called Music.

South Florida was a hot bed for MORC. Lee was in Medly, Mark Soverel was in West Palm and Paul Lindenberg was Cocoa, Fl.

[BravoBravo 666]

25 minutes ago, LarryE said:

Sunny Too was owned by Dr John Hastings, Vendetta was owned by Tommy and Pat Richards. There was one more called Music.

South Florida was a hot bed for MORC. Lee was in Medly, Mark Soverel was in West Palm and Paul Lindenberg was Cocoa, Fl.

I wasn't sure Sunny was Hastings boat so I didn't post his name...he was my dentist for a few years...I have known Tommy and Pat for 50 + years and sailed with and for Tommy....also dove with him

[LarryE 41]

No better people than Tommy and Pat. April sailed with us, on the 7.9, in the 2000 SORC.

Sunny Too won the Ft. Laud to Key West race around 1980.

Those were great times. Super Morc racing and Sorc at Miami Marina every winter with 100 + boats.

[BravoBravo 666]

1 minute ago, LarryE said:

No better people than Tommy and Pat. April sailed with us, on the 7.9, in the 2000 SORC.

Sunny Too won the Ft. Laud to Key West race around 1980.

Those were great times. Super Morc racing and Sorc at Miami Marina every winter with 100 + boats.

I knew April and Tom Tom when they were infants and toddlers and Pat would bring them down to Castle Harbor ...yes indeed fond memories...I still exchange emails with Tom a few times a year...see Cai often in recent years

[Slim 98]

Anyone else think this thread was about them?

[Sail4beer 2,216]

Cai S is a good guy and a great sailor. Raced against him on the Ensign a few times. He won the ‘95 Nationals and, as usual, was very humble...

[SloopJonB 8,577]

13 hours ago, 12 metre said:

The only Canvasback I recall in PNW was the Kirby 36 1Ton.  Sailed out of Vic in the early/mid 80's.  Production boat built in Ontario  (Scorpio Yachts?) https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/kirby-36

About the same upwind speed as the P35's, but faster off the wind.  Overall probably had a slight edge over the P35s - but hey, the P35 was a 10 year older design.

She was moored and for sale at Shelter Island Marina maybe 3 years ago.

Of course there may have been another Canvasback in PNW that I am not aware of.  In which case ignore what I just said.

I looked into buying that boat but it was one of those dumb later IOR boats without standing headroom.

I mean really - 5' 10" headroom on a 36'?

[12 metre 389]

2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I looked into buying that boat but it was one of those dumb later IOR boats without standing headroom.

I mean really - 5' 10" headroom on a 36'?

Interesting because to be a true One ton (i.e. being able to participate in the OTC), there had to be something like 6'1" or 6'2" headroom over a prescribed area.  IIRC, Whiting had to chainsaw the cabin off Smackwater Jack and hastily add a (plywood?) box in it's place to qualify for the 1977 OTC (photo below courtesy of RB Sailing blog)

But I see that Sailboatdata indicates production of the K36 started in 1983 - which was the year they bumped the One Ton class up to 30.5 from 27.5.

So it's possible they abandoned the notion of the K36 being a One Ton , but simply a boat that rated the same as the old One Ton class.

[SloopJonB 8,577]

It was years ago so my memory has faded - perhaps there was a minimum area of standing headroom but "minimum" would be the word if so. I recall I had to keep my neck bent everywhere and I'm 6'1".

I actually prefer lower (stooping) headroom rather than that - it was just right to keep bumping things because it was so close to standing you misjudged it constantly.

Really dumb - it totally compromised the boats liveability and down the road usefulness for a purely theoretical windage improvement. Like an inch more freeboard, an inch more deck camber and an inch more cabintop camber would kill the boats performance and looks.

That Soverel "Locura" that was butchered here years ago was the same - worse actually since it was a 39'.

[George Hackett 55]

Here is one?,,,,sitting here in Subic

[fitzee 6]

On 8/15/2019 at 7:20 PM, 12 metre said:

The only Canvasback I recall in PNW was the Kirby 36 1Ton.  Sailed out of Vic in the early/mid 80's.  Production boat built in Ontario  (Scorpio Yachts?) https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/kirby-36

 

About the same upwind speed as the P35's, but faster off the wind.  Overall probably had a slight edge over the P35s - but hey, the P35 was a 10 year older design.

She was moored and for sale at Shelter Island Marina maybe 3 years ago.

Of course there may have been another Canvasback in PNW that I am not aware of.  In which case ignore what I just said.

Canvasback is now at Birds Eye Cove Marina in Maple Bay.  Appears to be in reasonable shape....from a distance anyway.

[J Keeley 1]

We owned Sunny Too. Bought it from a marina in Bradenton. What a great boat B&R rig. Greatest light air boat I’ve ever sailed. Currently have a Creekmore 22. Creekmore boats were and are magic. 

[tad 3]

The larger boat did belong to Mike Evans and has been resident here in Silva Bay for 20 years or so.  I have an idea it was built by Schock(?) for singlehanded racing, perhaps a Bruce Marek design?  Mike passed away last year.  The smaller boat was built as a Open 30 but I've never seen it sail.

 

[44forty 166]

That boat keeps on giving ! .   love the gangway on the end of the boom 

[SloopJonB 8,577]

Boarding onto your Park Avenue boom.

Makes it easy to bend on the main at the start of the season.

[Schnick 23]

The weird Silva Bay 45 footer Samatas was built locally as a 39 footer and was really quite nice.  I recall it had a big spread in Pacific Ychting when new.

Story I heard was he wanted to maybe do the BOC back when the div was 40 to 50 feet.  So he extended pretty much everything, keel, rig, hull.  That's why the mast looks too far forward now.  The boat had a very close copy of the heel-adjustable rudder from Thursday's Child at one point, curved tracks etc.  I think he did sail it to Mexico and back but not completely sure.

I also think the boom was a round titanium tube at one point.

Never really raced or won anything but seems a shame to see it unloved.

[Unkle Krusty 81]

It may be a shame to see it unloved. But let me repeat myself. The owner told me he designed and built the boat. That may not be the truth, but that is what he told me directly. He is dead. Has been for about two years. His nephew is in charge of the estate so I hear. His affairs were a mess while he was alive. His estate will be in a much worse mess for a variety of reasons. But mostly due to his dealings while he was alive. The boat was not used much prior to his death, and obviously not used at all lately. The estate will probably have some litigation involved ( my words ) so the boat could be sitting for a while. It does look interesting, but I do not know how it sails, and have never seen it sail. I am 800 steps up the road from Silva Bay, and am down there often.