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We've done it, we sailed Taleisin across an ocean


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I realise this might be a win lose or draw situation. Some of you will care, some will hate it and another wont even blink.

For those interested, we're extremely proud of our achievement, going from not knowing how to sail. Learning to sail aboard Taleisin in particular and now we have crossed an ocean. I'd like to share our experience with you and you can read part 1 here: http://taleisin.com/the-post-most-of-you-have-been-waiting-for/

Parts 2 and 3 will be published over the next 2 weeks. It's a pretty long read by todays standards so we felt it best to break it up for those with shortened attention spans.

We hope you enjoy the read, and please go easy on us, remember we're still greenhorns!

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8 hours ago, EbenBruyns said:

I realise this might be a win lose or draw situation. Some of you will care, some will hate it and another wont even blink.

For those interested, we're extremely proud of our achievement, going from not knowing how to sail. Learning to sail aboard Taleisin in particular and now we have crossed an ocean. I'd like to share our experience with you and you can read part 1 here: http://taleisin.com/the-post-most-of-you-have-been-waiting-for/

Parts 2 and 3 will be published over the next 2 weeks. It's a pretty long read by todays standards so we felt it best to break it up for those with shortened attention spans.

We hope you enjoy the read, and please go easy on us, remember we're still greenhorns!

Congratulations!

Didn't know you were in Opua, I think we were there when you were. We left Opua for Whangarei around July 11th to haul out and get our rudder fixed, but we were there from mid June or so.

Keep an eye out for an HR 53 named Evenstar, if you see us say hi and we'll have sundowners. Not quite sure where we're headed next so we may meet up.

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

Congratulations!

Didn't know you were in Opua, I think we were there when you were. We left Opua for Whangarei around July 11th to haul out and get our rudder fixed, but we were there from mid June or so.

Keep an eye out for an HR 53 named Evenstar, if you see us say hi and we'll have sundowners. Not quite sure where we're headed next so we may meet up.

Thank you. We're not sure where we'll be either. We do know that we'll be coming back to New Zealand. We'll have to fill the cruising kitty. Will keep an eye out!

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7 hours ago, EbenBruyns said:

Thank you. We're not sure where we'll be either. We do know that we'll be coming back to New Zealand. We'll have to fill the cruising kitty. Will keep an eye out!

I'm in the US right now helping my parents love put of their house. We return to NZ in early October and will be there through the summer.

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10 minutes ago, Troglodytarum said:

Imagine the fun you guys could have if you sailed on something capable of >4kts and 65 degree pointing.  Not to poopoo your achievement, but you might enjoy yourselves more if you werent bobbing around in a floating museum relic.

Oh look,  troll that has no idea what the fuck he's talking about.

Go back to PA where you belong, little man and fling some more poo memes. Leave the sailing talk to the grownups.

 

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6 hours ago, Troglodytarum said:

Imagine the fun you guys could have if you sailed on something capable of >4kts and 65 degree pointing.  Not to poopoo your achievement, but you might enjoy yourselves more if you werent bobbing around in a floating museum relic.

Ok I'll feed the troll, have a cookie.

We could have bought one of those, but they all looked the same, had no character, and no soul. We chose Taleisin very much on purpose. In fact she does over 7 knots, so there's that.

But the main thing  you're actually missing here is that when you reduce your equipment down to the essentials you end up having a much richer experience. This might seem counter intuitive to most so let me explain with a for instance.

For instance, since our anchor windlass is manual, we get to experience weighing anchor, not pushing a button and waiting. We actually get the exercise that comes from the manual labour too. Since we don't have an engine, we get to slow down when nature slows down. Too many people are in a hurry today, you have to remember that we made this change in life in order to slow down.

I could probably write an entire blog post (and I just might since you've now inspired me to), about the added enjoyment we get from doing things the hard way. It's not always easy and sure sometimes it can get to you. But ultimately in the end when you complete an adventure you actually have a story that is worth repeating and telling. When we anchored in the harbour we met 2 other cruising boats. We had a great time telling them about our passage and they kept asking us to tell them more. They had as much fun listening to tales from our adventure as we had recounting them.

Ultimately I think you're wrong, we would have missed out on so much if we had one of the boats you suggest. I realise it's hard to understand in this day and age when advertising is telling you what you need and want. While we respect your opinion, we also reject it in favor of our own. If you feel like you're getting the best experience possible the way you're doing it, that is fine by us. However, we're getting so much out of our experience that I don't think we'd be able to handle more if we got more.

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54 minutes ago, EbenBruyns said:

For instance, since our anchor windlass is manual, we get to experience weighing anchor, not pushing a button and waiting. We actually get the exercise that comes from the manual labour too. Since we don't have an engine, we get to slow down when nature slows down. Too many people are in a hurry today, you have to remember that we made this change in life in order to slow down.

It's experiential. Why do people insist on bringing all the comforts and conveniences of home? If you want that, why not stay home? 

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Yeah, no.

While it's a lovely little wooden boat, the lack of reasonable upgrades makes it a pain box. Trust me here, there is precisely nothing redeeming about a manual windlass or a wooden bucket.

In 10 or 20 years, perhaps you'll discover that you're not getting any more out of your experience than others with more modern designs and more modern conveniences - but you sure are putting in a lot more. In the end, you're getting a lousy return on your life and that's the only thing that really counts.

The reasonable thing to do is what those like Leo is doing with Tally Ho, or Bruce with Improbable. These are classic boats being fully restored - but neither effort is pretending they're living in the past. They both have workshops with modern tools and are using modern concepts and materials to get the best possible result from the bones with which they've started. Both will have far more rewarding experiences with their results.

By comparison, your approach is just hard without merit and gives the impression that you're strong like ox and smart like tractor.

Get a grip.

 

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1 hour ago, EbenBruyns said:

Ok I'll feed the troll, have a cookie.

We could have bought one of those, but they all looked the same, had no character, and no soul. We chose Taleisin very much on purpose. In fact she does over 7 knots, so there's that.

But the main thing  you're actually missing here is that when you reduce your equipment down to the essentials you end up having a much richer experience. This might seem counter intuitive to most so let me explain with a for instance.

For instance, since our anchor windlass is manual, we get to experience weighing anchor, not pushing a button and waiting. We actually get the exercise that comes from the manual labour too. Since we don't have an engine, we get to slow down when nature slows down. Too many people are in a hurry today, you have to remember that we made this change in life in order to slow down.

I could probably write an entire blog post (and I just might since you've now inspired me to), about the added enjoyment we get from doing things the hard way. It's not always easy and sure sometimes it can get to you. But ultimately in the end when you complete an adventure you actually have a story that is worth repeating and telling. When we anchored in the harbour we met 2 other cruising boats. We had a great time telling them about our passage and they kept asking us to tell them more. They had as much fun listening to tales from our adventure as we had recounting them.

Ultimately I think you're wrong, we would have missed out on so much if we had one of the boats you suggest. I realise it's hard to understand in this day and age when advertising is telling you what you need and want. While we respect your opinion, we also reject it in favor of our own. If you feel like you're getting the best experience possible the way you're doing it, that is fine by us. However, we're getting so much out of our experience that I don't think we'd be able to handle more if we got more.

Congratulations on a huge accomplishment! 

I will say that I think you're being quite presumptuous about how much richer your experience is for the lack of electric windlasses and the like. You don't need to denigrate the experiences of others who chose to do things in a way that's different from yours. There's plenty of satisfaction to be gained from a great accomplishment, no matter how one chooses to execute it.

Anyway, you're still a pup so I'll chalk it up to arrogance of youth. Keep an open mind, try not to keep score, and congratulations again.

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Well, I get it...but I do have a manual anchor winch,

now I have to go out to the boat and sort out the cooling  system on the motor....

seriously, if I added up the hours I spend on maintenance of all the boat systems, I suspect I would be ahead with a boat like Talesin or Kevin Boothbys engineless cruiser ...

the only downside is getting seasick sitting in a sloppy swell without enough wind to get moving, or an engine to motorsail.

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I've been from one extreme to the other with systems. The older I get the fewer of them I want - simple is better. I do enjoy all the comforts of home when cruising on OPB's but not on my own boat.

I draw the line at engineless though - around here it can be downright dangerous to not have a reliable engine. At a minimum it severely limits where you can go - way too much current in too many of the passes and the wind is too unreliable.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

I've been from one extreme to the other with systems. The older I get the fewer of them I want - simple is better. I do enjoy all the comforts of home when cruising on OPB's but not on my own boat.

Me too.  I’ve sailed with friends on beautiful Hylas 54.  All the creature comforts, but I’d be overwhelmed trying to keep up with the systems.  One night sitting in the cockpit with the owner, thinking about all the systems board, I suggested we try to count all the pumps on the boat.  Just pumps.  IIRC we either finished or gave up at 47.  I think my 38’ had 12, and that was plenty.

And to the OP, congratulations on your voyage, well done. May you have many more!

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I've been from one extreme to the other with systems. The older I get the fewer of them I want - simple is better. I do enjoy all the comforts of home when cruising on OPB's but not on my own boat.

I draw the line at engineless though - around here it can be downright dangerous to not have a reliable engine. At a minimum it severely limits where you can go - way too much current in too many of the passes and the wind is too unreliable.

This...

So much more can be had for less in so many ways.  Not to drift the thread, but stuff takes over your life.  I'm really trying hard to eliminate stuff wherever possible.  Shop is bigger, I have more time, and less stress of having to maintain/fix/park/store whatever.

And electronics...  Ugg.  hate them.

Just left out that gas pressure washer with a free sign on it.  Good luck to whomever grabbed it in 30 seconds.  That carb was the most fiddly thing ever.

I agree with Sloop, an engine is pretty much a must for anything above the rowboat or Laser.  Oh wait!  Laser is gone now!  Woohoo!  Next up are the windsurfers.  

Ok... carry on.

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3 hours ago, CruiserJim said:

 Just pumps.  IIRC we either finished or gave up at 47.  I think my 38’ had 12, and that was plenty.

I currently have 5 - raw water, coolant, galley sink, electric bilge and manual bilge.

Woops - fuel lift and high pressure.

Oh, and oil.

O/K that's 9

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11 hours ago, Windward said:
14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I've been from one extreme to the other with systems. The older I get the fewer of them I want - simple is better. I do enjoy all the comforts of home when cruising on OPB's but not on my own boat.

I draw the line at engineless though - around here it can be downright dangerous to not have a reliable engine. At a minimum it severely limits where you can go - way too much current in too many of the passes and the wind is too unreliable.

This...

So much more can be had for less in so many ways.  Not to drift the thread, but stuff takes over your life.  I'm really trying hard to eliminate stuff wherever possible.  Shop is bigger, I have more time, and less stress of having to maintain/fix/park/store whatever.

And electronics...  Ugg.  hate them.

Just left out that gas pressure washer with a free sign on it.  Good luck to whomever grabbed it in 30 seconds.  That carb was the most fiddly thing ever.

I agree with Sloop, an engine is pretty much a must for anything above the rowboat or Laser.  Oh wait!  Laser is gone now!  Woohoo!  Next up are the windsurfers.  

Ok... carry on.

Depends what you're doing. We got rid of all that crap when we moved on the boat.

However, in LIVING on a boat, we absolutely did not want to be camping. Camping is fine for a weekend or a couple of weeks. Not for day to day living.

So we like having a freezer instead of living off canned food or shopping daily for things because you don't have a fridge, we like having a watermaker instead of having to go get water someplace, we like taking hot showers and watching movies at night (though we don't have a TV). Yes, there's a cost to those comforts, and with a few exceptions I don't think we've massively sacrificed our lifestyle and am willing to take the time and expense to keep the hot showers coming. Provisioning in Panama in April with frozen meats and other stuff that lasted us until July in the Tuamotus has it's own merits.

I understand the "simple life" and a desire for simplicity, but there's no need to turn it into a conceit.

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19 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Depends what you're doing. We got rid of all that crap when we moved on the boat.

However, in LIVING on a boat, we absolutely did not want to be camping. Camping is fine for a weekend or a couple of weeks. Not for day to day living.

So we like having a freezer instead of living off canned food or shopping daily for things because you don't have a fridge, we like having a watermaker instead of having to go get water someplace, we like taking hot showers and watching movies at night (though we don't have a TV). Yes, there's a cost to those comforts, and with a few exceptions I don't think we've massively sacrificed our lifestyle and am willing to take the time and expense to keep the hot showers coming. Provisioning in Panama in April with frozen meats and other stuff that lasted us until July in the Tuamotus has it's own merits.

I understand the "simple life" and a desire for simplicity, but there's no need to turn it into a conceit.

Ok... I was discussing in my drift the terrestrial goal of "stuff" and not the boat.  That said I do have experience living aboard. (5 years) so I do feel your concerns/issues and I do agree.

Your list doesn't sound at all decadent or excessive.  Watermaker, showers, movies and freezer I wouldn't put beyond the simple life.  Few would want to do the KonTiki thing.  Are you camping?  That would depend on the individuals perspective.  My MIL would say it was a horrible sacrifice and intolerable. 

Wine chillers, pizza ovens, underwater lights, and pretty much anything that requires a genset to run whenever the engines are off I would classify as excessive and a PIA.  Also see the Junk on the trunk thread.

I don't understand the conceit reference... is that something along the lines of the those smug half-wits with too much money at the farmers market trying to outdo each other on how environmentally awesome they are?

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

Depends what you're doing. We got rid of all that crap when we moved on the boat.

However, in LIVING on a boat, we absolutely did not want to be camping. Camping is fine for a weekend or a couple of weeks. Not for day to day living.

So we like having a freezer instead of living off canned food or shopping daily for things because you don't have a fridge, we like having a watermaker instead of having to go get water someplace, we like taking hot showers and watching movies at night (though we don't have a TV). Yes, there's a cost to those comforts, and with a few exceptions I don't think we've massively sacrificed our lifestyle and am willing to take the time and expense to keep the hot showers coming. Provisioning in Panama in April with frozen meats and other stuff that lasted us until July in the Tuamotus has it's own merits.

I understand the "simple life" and a desire for simplicity, but there's no need to turn it into a conceit.

Living aboard full time is an entirely different matter.

The complexities needed for comfort in that situation are part of the reason I have no desire to do it. ;)

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Modern electronics has made extended cruising and living aboard much easier than in years past.

Nearly everything is smaller, more powerful and cheaper. Why carry stacks of books when you can carry a Kindle (and even a couple of backup Kindles)?  Why install a TV when a large tablet or large screen laptop will do? Minimal electronic storage is needed when you can temporarily download your shows and movies from the cloud, or stream them in areas with adequate and affordable bandwidth.

Nearly everyone can have an Iridium GO satphone, AIS TX and RX, EPIRB and VHF with GPS and AIS RX built into it, plus DSC.  Tablets are now plotters. Solar panels can be much lighter and are improving in efficiency all the time. It's crazy how small and light this stuff has become. The space savings from all of this makes it easier to carry some paper charts for the all-important failsafe.

I realize that some comforts haven't changed much in 30 years, such as refrigeration, water heaters, powered windlass, wind turbines, etc but let's not let Perfect be the enemy of Good.

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2 hours ago, Windward said:

don't understand the conceit reference... is that something along the lines of the those smug half-wits with too much money at the farmers market trying to outdo each other on how environmentally awesome they are?

It's not a reference to you or your comments, but yes, a broader one from those that can turn their choices for simplicity into a kind of reverse snobbery or a purity test.

There are a lot of ways to cruise the world, and everyone's experiences are valid.

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Increased reliability, lower electric consumption, better battery tech and better solar and wind/water generation options seem to have really changed the calculus on what is practical to bring on-board and remain, "simple". 

The longer I can stay away from the dock, and the longer I can avoid running the engine, the happier I am.  That said, I consider ice the mark of civilization. 

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

You're referring to the Pardeys I presume. :D

Actually, doing it as successfully as them is not conceit I guess.

Nah, not really. The never seemed too judgemental.

But there are most definitely people that feel they've achieved something more, somehow, by doing things in a more primitive fashion.

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15 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
19 hours ago, CruiserJim said:

 Just pumps.  IIRC we either finished or gave up at 47.  I think my 38’ had 12, and that was plenty.

I currently have 5 - raw water, coolant, galley sink, electric bilge and manual bilge.

Woops - fuel lift and high pressure.

Oh, and oil.

O/K that's 9

Hmmm...

Raw water (engine & genset); I don't know that we should count these since they're integral to the engine. So you also have two lift pumps.

Fresh water

Fridge

Electric bilge

Manual Bilge

Emergency Bilge/Fire

Water maker feed (and Clark)

Reverse Cycle A/C heat

Shower sumps (2)

Macerator (one head only)

Foot pump in galley

Oil change

Fuel transfer

 

 

I believe I have 22 through hulls.

 

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1 hour ago, Elegua said:

Increased reliability, lower electric consumption, better battery tech and better solar and wind/water generation options seem to have really changed the calculus on what is practical to bring on-board and remain, "simple". 

The longer I can stay away from the dock, and the longer I can avoid running the engine, the happier I am.  That said, I consider ice the mark of civilization. 

The LiFePO4 batteries were a game changer for us. With 660Ah of L-A batteries (which is ~264 Ah usable) we had about 30 hours of quiet time, +/- depending on wind and usage. So we were pretty much running the generator every single day, for ~4-5 hours. Sometimes if it was windy and my last full charge was late in the day I could skip a day and charge first thing the next morning. Usually I was charging 3-4 hours later every day until the skip day, then start it over.

With 720Ah of LFP batteries (~576Ah usable) we can now go about 3.5 days without charging. And the charging is faster as we're putting in twice the power all the way to 100%, so charging is more like 3 - 3.5 hours from 30% DoD. If it's at all windy we do better. The bigger problem is we tend to run out of hot water now before we run out of battery power, so we'll end up recharging at more like 40-50% DoD at a lower rate for an hour (~130A vs. 180A) to allow the 2kW water heater to cycle up.

But what changes? Some simple thing, like we can use a 2Kw kettle for hot water. So coffee, tea, pre-boiling things all use electricity - which is easy to replace - instead of propane, which is more limited (we carry 2 x 11lb tanks). Ditto for an electric toaster, not only does our toast not suck any more, it also doesn't use 15 minutes of propane to make four slices of half burned, half-raw toast on a camp toaster. We've always had a microwave, but we're a little more profligate with it now, again to save propane.

Just the kettle along has probably cut 30-45 minutes of propane use a day from the stove, just with coffee, tea, and toast. When you add in pre-heating for boiling (poached eggs, pasta, etc.) we're cutting out a lot of propane use.

The freezer is still the #1 source of power draw, followed by the fridge at #2. But those are one key to happy life for us.

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On 8/17/2019 at 5:49 AM, EbenBruyns said:

I realise this might be a win lose or draw situation. Some of you will care, some will hate it and another wont even blink.

For those interested, we're extremely proud of our achievement, going from not knowing how to sail. Learning to sail aboard Taleisin in particular and now we have crossed an ocean. I'd like to share our experience with you and you can read part 1 here: http://taleisin.com/the-post-most-of-you-have-been-waiting-for/

Parts 2 and 3 will be published over the next 2 weeks. It's a pretty long read by todays standards so we felt it best to break it up for those with shortened attention spans.

We hope you enjoy the read, and please go easy on us, remember we're still greenhorns!

Hey Eben, thats awesome!!!!!

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

Nah, not really. The never seemed too judgemental.

But there are most definitely people that feel they've achieved something more, somehow, by doing things in a more primitive fashion.

For me, a red flag is anyone who quotes Thoreau's "lives of quiet desperation". 

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I guess it's quite easy for people to get the wrong idea very quickly and I should probably choose my words more carefully in future.

 

I thought I made it clear that we made an active decision to go down the path we did. We didn't want to have all the modern conveniences on board. We chose to do things in a way that gives us a more raw (richer might have been the wrong word here) experience. There's a very specific set of reasons why we shied away from modern and too comfortable.

 

We're not suggesting that everybody do what we're doing, heck most people would balk at the way we do things. That is perfectly ok with us. For *US* this is a better way of doing things, for *YOU* it might be the wrong way. Do what work for *YOU*.

 

I really do appreciate constructive criticism, but barbed half sentences with a hint of irony? Is that really necessary? If you dislike it that much, please do not read it, you're clearly not the target audience. If you could tell me why you feel it's badly written please tell me, I put a lot of time and effort into writing and really would like to know how I could improve. An even better idea would be to point me to your blog so I can see an example of a well written blog that's not mostly boring. Keep in mind that English is my second language and the only things I've written in the past is computer software. This is a new adventure for me.

 

I feel like I should tell you about my past so you can understand my current point of view and remember this is *MY* point of view, I don't expect you to subscribe to it. I know how to live comfortably; I was once known as the man who's got everything. I've had all the toys, all the comforts you can imagine. I worked my butt off and made serious money. I felt my life was lacking, and I still believe I was right. Living with less to *ME* is living with more. I'm not a teenager anymore, heck statistically I've lived over half my life. Where I'm at currently in life, I relish actually *doing* stuff, I used to just push buttons to achieve things. The experience was 'empty' for me. Because we must work for everything on our little boat, and I mean physically exert energy, we feel like we're accomplishing something. If you've done it the hard way and don't like it, that's fine by us, it's your life, time and energy, spend it how you see fit. After all you only get one life to live, so make the most of it.

 

As someone who spent 20+ years using technology in anger (I'm probably better qualified to fix and work with electronics than 90% of the people here), I don't want my daily life to depend on it. Technology has cause me to lead what I believe an unfulfilled life. We needed a change, and this is what we've done. We were likely born in the wrong era; we like the old way of doing things. My wife's next wish (one she's had ever since I met her) is to live in a little cabin in the middle of the woods/bush, with no mod-cons! Please don't everyone on here get the same idea as she doesn't want any neighbours - she'd like to be a hermit (having this boat with its legacy is challenging for her at times, she dearly loves the boat, but she's not one for attention). Now before you ask us why we bought a boat with a legacy, we bought her first and foremost because we love the boat. People have then encouraged us to keep the history alive by documenting it, which is fun for the most part.

 

I've never once tried to give the impression that I'm strong as an ox, heck I'd like to be strong as an ox, I'd be healthier for it! Sitting down and pushing buttons for 20+ years will take its toll on your body; I certainly do not recommend it.

 

Rather than make barbed comments, why don't you ask us WHY we're doing things the way we're doing it. Even better, if you act like a decent human being and come meet us out on the water, we'll invite you aboard and share all of that with you in person. My intention was never to offend people or put anybody down (and except for the blatant troll, I believe I've not done that). I truly hope the irony isn't lost on those who did exactly what they accused us of doing. I'm also not sure how much of that is directed at us directly or directed at the legacy of our little boat.

 

I certainly won't make the mistake of trying to share a different type of experience here again. Thank you for reminding me why I opted out of the life I did. This has just affirmed my decision for me.

 

Thank you to those who were kind, we'll have to stay in touch another way.

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4 minutes ago, EbenBruyns said:

 

I guess it's quite easy for people to get the wrong idea very quickly and I should probably choose my words more carefully in future.

 

 

 

I thought I made it clear that we made an active decision to go down the path we did. We didn't want to have all the modern conveniences on board. We chose to do things in a way that gives us a more raw (richer might have been the wrong word here) experience. There's a very specific set of reasons why we shied away from modern and too comfortable.

 

 

 

We're not suggesting that everybody do what we're doing, heck most people would balk at the way we do things. That is perfectly ok with us. For *US* this is a better way of doing things, for *YOU* it might be the wrong way. Do what work for *YOU*.

 

 

 

I really do appreciate constructive criticism, but barbed half sentences with a hint of irony? Is that really necessary? If you dislike it that much, please do not read it, you're clearly not the target audience. If you could tell me why you feel it's badly written please tell me, I put a lot of time and effort into writing and really would like to know how I could improve. An even better idea would be to point me to your blog so I can see an example of a well written blog that's not mostly boring. Keep in mind that English is my second language and the only things I've written in the past is computer software. This is a new adventure for me.

 

 

 

I feel like I should tell you about my past so you can understand my current point of view and remember this is *MY* point of view, I don't expect you to subscribe to it. I know how to live comfortably; I was once known as the man who's got everything. I've had all the toys, all the comforts you can imagine. I worked my butt off and made serious money. I felt my life was lacking, and I still believe I was right. Living with less to *ME* is living with more. I'm not a teenager anymore, heck statistically I've lived over half my life. Where I'm at currently in life, I relish actually *doing* stuff, I used to just push buttons to achieve things. The experience was 'empty' for me. Because we must work for everything on our little boat, and I mean physically exert energy, we feel like we're accomplishing something. If you've done it the hard way and don't like it, that's fine by us, it's your life, time and energy, spend it how you see fit. After all you only get one life to live, so make the most of it.

 

 

 

As someone who spent 20+ years using technology in anger (I'm probably better qualified to fix and work with electronics than 90% of the people here), I don't want my daily life to depend on it. Technology has cause me to lead what I believe an unfulfilled life. We needed a change, and this is what we've done. We were likely born in the wrong era; we like the old way of doing things. My wife's next wish (one she's had ever since I met her) is to live in a little cabin in the middle of the woods/bush, with no mod-cons! Please don't everyone on here get the same idea as she doesn't want any neighbours - she'd like to be a hermit (having this boat with its legacy is challenging for her at times, she dearly loves the boat, but she's not one for attention). Now before you ask us why we bought a boat with a legacy, we bought her first and foremost because we love the boat. People have then encouraged us to keep the history alive by documenting it, which is fun for the most part.

 

 

 

I've never once tried to give the impression that I'm strong as an ox, heck I'd like to be strong as an ox, I'd be healthier for it! Sitting down and pushing buttons for 20+ years will take its toll on your body; I certainly do not recommend it.

 

 

 

Rather than make barbed comments, why don't you ask us WHY we're doing things the way we're doing it. Even better, if you act like a decent human being and come meet us out on the water, we'll invite you aboard and share all of that with you in person. My intention was never to offend people or put anybody down (and except for the blatant troll, I believe I've not done that). I truly hope the irony isn't lost on those who did exactly what they accused us of doing. I'm also not sure how much of that is directed at us directly or directed at the legacy of our little boat.

 

 

 

I certainly won't make the mistake of trying to share a different type of experience here again. Thank you for reminding me why I opted out of the life I did. This has just affirmed my decision for me.

 

 

 

Thank you to those who were kind, we'll have to stay in touch another way.

 

you don't know what you dont know.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.... as long as you know that.

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3 minutes ago, Troglodytarum said:

you don't know what you dont know.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.... as long as you know that.

Coming from you that is hilarious - you are the poster boy for clueless know it all.

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2 hours ago, EbenBruyns said:

 

I guess it's quite easy for people to get the wrong idea very quickly and I should probably choose my words more carefully in future.

 

 

 

I thought I made it clear that we made an active decision to go down the path we did. We didn't want to have all the modern conveniences on board. We chose to do things in a way that gives us a more raw (richer might have been the wrong word here) experience. There's a very specific set of reasons why we shied away from modern and too comfortable.

 

 

 

We're not suggesting that everybody do what we're doing, heck most people would balk at the way we do things. That is perfectly ok with us. For *US* this is a better way of doing things, for *YOU* it might be the wrong way. Do what work for *YOU*.

 

 

 

I really do appreciate constructive criticism, but barbed half sentences with a hint of irony? Is that really necessary? If you dislike it that much, please do not read it, you're clearly not the target audience. If you could tell me why you feel it's badly written please tell me, I put a lot of time and effort into writing and really would like to know how I could improve. An even better idea would be to point me to your blog so I can see an example of a well written blog that's not mostly boring. Keep in mind that English is my second language and the only things I've written in the past is computer software. This is a new adventure for me.

 

 

 

I feel like I should tell you about my past so you can understand my current point of view and remember this is *MY* point of view, I don't expect you to subscribe to it. I know how to live comfortably; I was once known as the man who's got everything. I've had all the toys, all the comforts you can imagine. I worked my butt off and made serious money. I felt my life was lacking, and I still believe I was right. Living with less to *ME* is living with more. I'm not a teenager anymore, heck statistically I've lived over half my life. Where I'm at currently in life, I relish actually *doing* stuff, I used to just push buttons to achieve things. The experience was 'empty' for me. Because we must work for everything on our little boat, and I mean physically exert energy, we feel like we're accomplishing something. If you've done it the hard way and don't like it, that's fine by us, it's your life, time and energy, spend it how you see fit. After all you only get one life to live, so make the most of it.

 

 

 

As someone who spent 20+ years using technology in anger (I'm probably better qualified to fix and work with electronics than 90% of the people here), I don't want my daily life to depend on it. Technology has cause me to lead what I believe an unfulfilled life. We needed a change, and this is what we've done. We were likely born in the wrong era; we like the old way of doing things. My wife's next wish (one she's had ever since I met her) is to live in a little cabin in the middle of the woods/bush, with no mod-cons! Please don't everyone on here get the same idea as she doesn't want any neighbours - she'd like to be a hermit (having this boat with its legacy is challenging for her at times, she dearly loves the boat, but she's not one for attention). Now before you ask us why we bought a boat with a legacy, we bought her first and foremost because we love the boat. People have then encouraged us to keep the history alive by documenting it, which is fun for the most part.

 

 

 

I've never once tried to give the impression that I'm strong as an ox, heck I'd like to be strong as an ox, I'd be healthier for it! Sitting down and pushing buttons for 20+ years will take its toll on your body; I certainly do not recommend it.

 

 

 

Rather than make barbed comments, why don't you ask us WHY we're doing things the way we're doing it. Even better, if you act like a decent human being and come meet us out on the water, we'll invite you aboard and share all of that with you in person. My intention was never to offend people or put anybody down (and except for the blatant troll, I believe I've not done that). I truly hope the irony isn't lost on those who did exactly what they accused us of doing. I'm also not sure how much of that is directed at us directly or directed at the legacy of our little boat.

 

 

 

I certainly won't make the mistake of trying to share a different type of experience here again. Thank you for reminding me why I opted out of the life I did. This has just affirmed my decision for me.

 

 

 

Thank you to those who were kind, we'll have to stay in touch another way.

 

Don't let the downers here get you. Some of us, probably most of us, appreciate your continued narrative. This forum tends to be more acerbic than most, but it is also a forum that has a lot of experience and knowledge. In a few rare cases, wisdom. Do hang around, you're adding to the mix well. 

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3 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

The LiFePO4 batteries were a game changer for us. With 660Ah of L-A batteries (which is ~264 Ah usable) we had about 30 hours of quiet time, +/- depending on wind and usage. So we were pretty much running the generator every single day, for ~4-5 hours. Sometimes if it was windy and my last full charge was late in the day I could skip a day and charge first thing the next morning. Usually I was charging 3-4 hours later every day until the skip day, then start it over.

With 720Ah of LFP batteries (~576Ah usable) we can now go about 3.5 days without charging. And the charging is faster as we're putting in twice the power all the way to 100%, so charging is more like 3 - 3.5 hours from 30% DoD. If it's at all windy we do better. The bigger problem is we tend to run out of hot water now before we run out of battery power, so we'll end up recharging at more like 40-50% DoD at a lower rate for an hour (~130A vs. 180A) to allow the 2kW water heater to cycle up.

But what changes? Some simple thing, like we can use a 2Kw kettle for hot water. So coffee, tea, pre-boiling things all use electricity - which is easy to replace - instead of propane, which is more limited (we carry 2 x 11lb tanks). Ditto for an electric toaster, not only does our toast not suck any more, it also doesn't use 15 minutes of propane to make four slices of half burned, half-raw toast on a camp toaster. We've always had a microwave, but we're a little more profligate with it now, again to save propane.

Just the kettle along has probably cut 30-45 minutes of propane use a day from the stove, just with coffee, tea, and toast. When you add in pre-heating for boiling (poached eggs, pasta, etc.) we're cutting out a lot of propane use.

The freezer is still the #1 source of power draw, followed by the fridge at #2. But those are one key to happy life for us.

LiFePO4  is our next addition when we add a bit more solar. I have half your former capacity in AGM, but our biggest draw is the fridge.  Ice is required (after living in the sub-tropics for 30yrs). Most of our boat is manual by design. Can be operated successfully by a Kulak like me.  I have an auxiliary with a high-output alternator, a watermaker, a fridge, an electric windlass and forced air heating - yet the yard keeps telling me my boat is super simple. Things must be very complex on those yachts we share space with. 

It's an interesting trade off - propane vs electric - not one I would have thought of. Of course, you'll pay later, I guess, with wear'n tear but you get to live now.

I'm quite happy with toast done in a pan with butter - so no need for a toaster - eggs kejriwal - yummmmmm. Good boat food. 

 

1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Well, a new one in the basement to be installed at some future date.

Bucket for now.

Technically that's a head. 

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35 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I'm quite happy with toast done in a pan with butter - so no need for a toaster - eggs kejriwal - yummmmmm. Good boat food. 

 

 

Our Magma BBQ does great toast, 6 slices at a time.

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1 hour ago, Elegua said:

t's an interesting trade off - propane vs electric - not one I would have thought of. Of course, you'll pay later, I guess, with wear'n tear but you get to live now.

Yes and no. We're putting 1/3 of the wear and tear on the genset as we used to, even with our more profligate power consumption.

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1 hour ago, Elegua said:

I'm quite happy with toast done in a pan with butter - so no need for a toaster - eggs kejriwal - yummmmmm. Good boat food. 

Butter is way too caloric for my tubby ass. A typical breakfast for me now is two poached eggs on dry toast.

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5 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Hmmm...

Raw water (engine & genset); I don't know that we should count these since they're integral to the engine. So you also have two lift pumps.

Fresh water

Fridge

Electric bilge

Manual Bilge

Emergency Bilge/Fire

Water maker feed (and Clark)

Reverse Cycle A/C heat

Shower sumps (2)

Macerator (one head only)

Foot pump in galley

Oil change

Fuel transfer

 

 

I believe I have 22 through hulls.

 

Some of the ones I recall from my friends’ boat, in addition to your list:

we counted engine/gen set raw water as they have impellers that need replacing

their fresh water system had a built in back up pump

Galley sink sump pump (sink bottom was at waterline)

Two electric heads, two pumps

2 holding tank discharge pumps

AP is hydraulic drive, that’s a pump isn’t it?

separate aft bilge with pump. 

I think there were two AC raw water pumps. Also may a raw water anchor wash down pump  

I’m sure I’m forgetting a few. 

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4 hours ago, EbenBruyns said:

 

I guess it's quite easy for people to get the wrong idea very quickly and I should probably choose my words more carefully in future.

 

 

 

I thought I made it clear that we made an active decision to go down the path we did. We didn't want to have all the modern conveniences on board. We chose to do things in a way that gives us a more raw (richer might have been the wrong word here) experience. There's a very specific set of reasons why we shied away from modern and too comfortable.

 

 

 

We're not suggesting that everybody do what we're doing, heck most people would balk at the way we do things. That is perfectly ok with us. For *US* this is a better way of doing things, for *YOU* it might be the wrong way. Do what work for *YOU*.

 

 

 

I really do appreciate constructive criticism, but barbed half sentences with a hint of irony? Is that really necessary? If you dislike it that much, please do not read it, you're clearly not the target audience. If you could tell me why you feel it's badly written please tell me, I put a lot of time and effort into writing and really would like to know how I could improve. An even better idea would be to point me to your blog so I can see an example of a well written blog that's not mostly boring. Keep in mind that English is my second language and the only things I've written in the past is computer software. This is a new adventure for me.

 

 

 

I feel like I should tell you about my past so you can understand my current point of view and remember this is *MY* point of view, I don't expect you to subscribe to it. I know how to live comfortably; I was once known as the man who's got everything. I've had all the toys, all the comforts you can imagine. I worked my butt off and made serious money. I felt my life was lacking, and I still believe I was right. Living with less to *ME* is living with more. I'm not a teenager anymore, heck statistically I've lived over half my life. Where I'm at currently in life, I relish actually *doing* stuff, I used to just push buttons to achieve things. The experience was 'empty' for me. Because we must work for everything on our little boat, and I mean physically exert energy, we feel like we're accomplishing something. If you've done it the hard way and don't like it, that's fine by us, it's your life, time and energy, spend it how you see fit. After all you only get one life to live, so make the most of it.

 

 

 

As someone who spent 20+ years using technology in anger (I'm probably better qualified to fix and work with electronics than 90% of the people here), I don't want my daily life to depend on it. Technology has cause me to lead what I believe an unfulfilled life. We needed a change, and this is what we've done. We were likely born in the wrong era; we like the old way of doing things. My wife's next wish (one she's had ever since I met her) is to live in a little cabin in the middle of the woods/bush, with no mod-cons! Please don't everyone on here get the same idea as she doesn't want any neighbours - she'd like to be a hermit (having this boat with its legacy is challenging for her at times, she dearly loves the boat, but she's not one for attention). Now before you ask us why we bought a boat with a legacy, we bought her first and foremost because we love the boat. People have then encouraged us to keep the history alive by documenting it, which is fun for the most part.

 

 

 

I've never once tried to give the impression that I'm strong as an ox, heck I'd like to be strong as an ox, I'd be healthier for it! Sitting down and pushing buttons for 20+ years will take its toll on your body; I certainly do not recommend it.

 

 

 

Rather than make barbed comments, why don't you ask us WHY we're doing things the way we're doing it. Even better, if you act like a decent human being and come meet us out on the water, we'll invite you aboard and share all of that with you in person. My intention was never to offend people or put anybody down (and except for the blatant troll, I believe I've not done that). I truly hope the irony isn't lost on those who did exactly what they accused us of doing. I'm also not sure how much of that is directed at us directly or directed at the legacy of our little boat.

 

 

 

I certainly won't make the mistake of trying to share a different type of experience here again. Thank you for reminding me why I opted out of the life I did. This has just affirmed my decision for me.

 

 

 

Thank you to those who were kind, we'll have to stay in touch another way.

 

Don't let this place scare you off.

You do you, with your own choices. Others have different ideas, and those neither invalidate or validate yours, any more than yours do for us.

You are right that "Richer" may have been a prickly word choice, as it includes an implicit value judgement you probably weren't intending to make about those of us who approach things in  different fashion than you. I would contend that my experience has also been quite rich, if different than yours.

I come from an IT/Software development background too. I've installed (and fixed...and re-installed in some cases) all our electronics, and even rolled my own LiFePO4 bank a couple of years back. My reaction to technology is quite different than yours; I view it as a means to take me away from what I view as unpleasant parts of the lifestyle (e.g schlepping water jugs and living off canned food) rather than any sort of burden.

Horses for courses.

Anyway, I certainly didn't intend to give offense. There are by and large good people here (except Troglydarium, he's an epic twat) and your stories would be generally appreciated.

And the offer still stands, if you see us on the water come say hi, and I will do the same. I'm always happy to meet fellow cruisers.

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4 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Coming from you that is hilarious - you are the poster boy for clueless know it all.

I'm not sure which of our bitter right-wing spleen chewers this twat is, and I really don't care.

A few of them enjoyed pointing to my inexperience and how I had no idea what I was doing. They can get fucked; I've been cruising and living aboard for seven years now and I've sailed from New England to Australia, so I don't really need to listen to their shit any more. While I know I will always have more to learn, I also know that I know more now about living aboard and cruising than any of the angry know-it-alls that rarely leave the WLIS except to race OPBs.

Trogs here is a bigger idiot than most, and I have no idea of his sailing creds. They don't matter, as he will never have anything of use to add to any discussion.

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3 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Butter is way too caloric for my tubby ass. A typical breakfast for me now is two poached eggs on dry toast.

So says the man who introduced me to the Tim Tam Value Pack........ :)

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Bravo to you two! 

I had a friend aboard sailing the other day when Lynn and Larry came up and we talked about how they traveled for years with no engine. My friend said, “Yeah but they pooped in a bucket too!” 

Is the bucket still where it was in the DVD’s?

fair winds!

 

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They got towed by other people as well.

Crapping into a bucket in the galley was a little over the top for me.

That would definitely break the fantasy for me.

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12 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They got towed by other people as well.

Crapping into a bucket in the galley was a little over the top for me.

Was it the same bucket used for washing the dishes?

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On 8/18/2019 at 2:36 PM, B.J. Porter said:

Nah, not really. The never seemed too judgemental.

But there are most definitely people that feel they've achieved something more, somehow, by doing things in a more primitive fashion.

Such as -- to pick an example at random! -- moving around in boats powered by the laughably obsolete 'fabric on sticks' technology  rather than using the vastly-less-primitive internal combustion engine? Anyone still choosing sail over power (excepting Joyen or similar)  has already taken the retro option & is 2/3rds on Eben's side. Then it's just down to hairsplitting over how self-consciously atavistic you want the experience to be.

It's like people scorning BCCs or Westsails for being slow. Yeah, well. A seven year-old on her Disney Princess bike rolls faster than your Beneteau, too. 

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I’ve sometimes noticed a similar angry self righteousness from people who choose an “easier” boat than our big wooden gaff ketch. 

One or two of the responses here sound as if they feel threatened by Taleisin (couldn’t the Pardy’s spell?). Eh?

Good grief, but a big up to everyone who goes sailing, whether on a gadget laden boat show queen, an old racing boat, the scruffy old thing that you can afford, or a self-consciously fine boat like Tally-up.

As to pooing in a bucket, they’re lucky. We used to dream of having a bucket when I were a boy. 

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21 minutes ago, Mr. Ed said:

As to pooing in a bucket, they’re lucky. We used to dream of having a bucket when I were a boy. 

There were eighteen of us, living in a paper bag in a septic tank...

There's always someone more hardcore than you - props to the OP for keeping that envelope pushed out a bit so that the rest of us can recognize our relative softness.  

 I think in the week we were just in the PNW if we'd have been "sailing" continuously with no engine we would not have been able to appreciably alter our position relative to the tidal flows, and would have been on the rocks for sure - I think this entire cruising ground would be off limits to an engineless boat, and it's really really nice.  But I get the ethos, and respect it.  Please do keep posting!  

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On 8/17/2019 at 1:49 AM, EbenBruyns said:

I realise this might be a win lose or draw situation. Some of you will care, some will hate it and another wont even blink.

Thanks for the blog and posts. Your writing is fine. I would like to read more about your minimalist philosophy touched on in #38 above.

The posts of our unsupportive Anarchists should quietly roll off your back. Sparring with them is pointless...even though some of us find great sport in it.

22 thruhulls! Who wrote that above? Holy crap! That there is a life out of balance. Multiply 22 by the requisite hoses, hose clamps, elbows. I cannot really justify the we have on our luxurious 50 foot cruiser. Three would seem enough.

Pumps seem impossible to count...bet everyone has a few more that they think...dinghy seems to have five...just sayin.

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Well, I guess I can be called an asshole even though I truly admire what Eben and his companion have accomplished. I'll be the first to say I've never crossed an ocean in a sailboat and likely never will, engine or not, so massive respect. I was just trying to provide some constructive criticism of/for his blog writing. 

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On 8/18/2019 at 10:16 PM, B.J. Porter said:

Butter is way too caloric for my tubby ass. A typical breakfast for me now is two poached eggs on dry toast.

Toast is worse for your weight than butter.  Quit eating the crackers and bread and cereal and eat more meat and broccoli. I thought you married a doctor.

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21 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:
On 8/18/2019 at 10:16 PM, B.J. Porter said:

Butter is way too caloric for my tubby ass. A typical breakfast for me now is two poached eggs on dry toast.

Toast is worse for your weight than butter.  Quit eating the crackers and bread and cereal and eat more meat and broccoli. I thought you married a doctor.

Bullshit on that one, and I did marry a doctor.

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1 minute ago, B.J. Porter said:

Bullshit on that one

Whatever works for you.  I hope the diet is going well then. 

I can only lose weight when I cut out all the bread, potato, and pasta.  Otherwise I can add muscle but the gut and love handles stay.  Remove the simple carbs and the visceral fat goes away within a couple months.

 

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12 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Whatever works for you.  I hope the diet is going well then. 

I can only lose weight when I cut out all the bread, potato, and pasta.  Otherwise I can add muscle but the gut and love handles stay.  Remove the simple carbs and the visceral fat goes away within a couple months.

 

What about beer and scotch?  Please for the love of God don't tell me beer and scotch has to go.  A wooden boat is one thing but no beer and scotch is inhumane.

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38 minutes ago, Wess said:

What about beer and scotch?  Please for the love of God don't tell me beer and scotch has to go.  A wooden boat is one thing but no beer and scotch is inhumane.

Scotch is fine, beer and bread are both worse for that gut fat than eating sugar straight from the bag.  Vodka and tequila OK too but stay away from the dark rum and gin, except for this one.

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8 hours ago, socalrider said:

 I think in the week we were just in the PNW if we'd have been "sailing" continuously with no engine we would not have been able to appreciably alter our position relative to the tidal flows, and would have been on the rocks for sure - I think this entire cruising ground would be off limits to an engineless boat, and it's really really nice.  But I get the ethos, and respect it.  Please do keep posting!  

Larry was from here and they sailed Taleisin here - I was on it at PT - so it can be done but it would be very limiting.

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On 8/18/2019 at 6:54 PM, Elegua said:

LiFePO4  is our next addition when we add a bit more solar. I have half your former capacity in AGM, but our biggest draw is the fridge.  Ice is required (after living in the sub-tropics for 30yrs). Most of our boat is manual by design. Can be operated successfully by a Kulak like me.  I have an auxiliary with a high-output alternator, a watermaker, a fridge, an electric windlass and forced air heating - yet the yard keeps telling me my boat is super simple. Things must be very complex on those yachts we share space with. 

It's an interesting trade off - propane vs electric - not one I would have thought of. Of course, you'll pay later, I guess, with wear'n tear but you get to live now.

I'm quite happy with toast done in a pan with butter - so no need for a toaster - eggs kejriwal - yummmmmm. Good boat food. 

 

Technically that's a head. 

but no pump!

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5 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Scotch is fine, beer and bread are both worse for that gut fat than eating sugar straight from the bag.  Vodka and tequila OK too but stay away from the dark rum and gin, except for this one.

Gin is vodka with juniper berries or other aromatic soaked in it. How is it possibly any better or worse than vodka, since it IS vodka flavored (not sweetened) with stuff with no nutritive effect?

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Whatever works for you.  I hope the diet is going well then. 

I can only lose weight when I cut out all the bread, potato, and pasta.  Otherwise I can add muscle but the gut and love handles stay.  Remove the simple carbs and the visceral fat goes away within a couple months.

 

That's good, because I thought for a minute there you were looking over my shoulder and had a clue what I eat or drink in a day or something, which you don't.

Your body is your body, not mine. Getting rid of love handles is a completely different prospect than recovering from obesity.

If there was an easy solution I wouldn't have struggled with it for the last 20 years. I've done low carb, cut out the carbs, etc.. It works for a short while, but it's not realistically sustainable.

What works for me is eating fewer calories in a day than I burn, no magic tricks, no gimmicks, no fad diets or flash. Count the calories, weigh the food, track the exercise. When I do that, I lose weight. When I don't, I maintain and eventually start to creep up again.

Butter has about 100 calories in a tablespoon. That's more calories than a slice of whole wheat bread.

Two slices of dry wheat toast and two poached eggs is about 337 calories, tastes good, is about 16% of my (non-exercise) target for the day and usually keeps me happy until lunch. I don't think that's how I got where I am.

It's the butter, mayo and other high calorie, low content bullshit that puts you over for the day. Eating lean meats, avoiding fried fatty foods, eating lots of vegetables without butter and bullshit on them, etc. has me 40 pounds lighter than I was at the start of 2018, still. Slow and steady wins the race.

The best thing for my weight though is to stay the hell out of the U.S., I forgot how goddamn big all the food is here.

 

It drives me batshit when skinny people treat those of us that struggle with our weight like we are morons that have never paid attention to a scrap of food we've put in our mouth or do a second's research into how to lose weight.

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What works is eating fewer calories in a day than I burn, no magic tricks, no gimmicks, no fad diets or flash.

That's it exactly - very simple.

Everyone has a different metabolic rate and if you are gaining weight you are eating too much - period.

Diets and all the other bullshit that surrounds fat is all self deception and refusal to accept that you have to eat less.

I am currently about 55 Lbs below the fattest I ever got so I know what I'm talking about.

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So is the hardest part about minimalist sailing is shuttibg the fuck up about it? It figures this guy ending up with lin and Larry's boat - they had a similar problem.  OP: I respect you more than your opposition in the thread, but shut up. Seriously.  I dont have an engine,  nor a bilge pump,  15 ah of lipo is enough for me, and manual vs electric windlass? I just use my winches. And I'm willing to bet that I sail more than most in this conversation and none of you know who I am or ever will, fine by me. A good friend linked me here so I read half the thread and had to stop before I threw up or punched something and posted this instead to vent. OP: you're right, minimalism is the way to go but get over yourself. You're making us look bad. Lose the engine and the ego or else your missing the point. 

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7 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Scotch is fine, beer and bread are both worse for that gut fat than eating sugar straight from the bag.  Vodka and tequila OK too but stay away from the dark rum and gin, except for this one.

No Dark and Stormies??  I would rather die!!!

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1 hour ago, badb0b said:

So is the hardest part about minimalist sailing is shuttibg the fuck up about it? It figures this guy ending up with lin and Larry's boat - they had a similar problem.  OP: I respect you more than your opposition in the thread, but shut up. Seriously.  I dont have an engine,  nor a bilge pump,  15 ah of lipo is enough for me, and manual vs electric windlass? I just use my winches. And I'm willing to bet that I sail more than most in this conversation and none of you know who I am or ever will, fine by me. A good friend linked me here so I read half the thread and had to stop before I threw up or punched something and posted this instead to vent. OP: you're right, minimalism is the way to go but get over yourself. You're making us look bad. Lose the engine and the ego or else your missing the point. 

I am guessing you also sail solo? Obviously, someone as grumpy as yourself will be solo. Did your minimalism arise because even your inanimate boat accessories have jumped ship to avoid your wrath? Sheesh!

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10 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Scotch is fine, beer and bread are both worse for that gut fat than eating sugar straight from the bag.  Vodka and tequila OK too but stay away from the dark rum and gin, except for this one.

Some bad info there.   Most gin does not have a sweetener added, so adding a sugar substitute doesn't make it any better, arguably still worse than a conventional gin.  If you have to add sugar to your gin you are making it wrong.  BJ is mostly correct - you could think of gin as being vodka tea - to make it you re-distill vodka, adding some of the botanicals to the still and some to the "gin basket" - a stainless container that the alcohol vapor has to pass thru, essentially steaming the botanicals.  Gin always has juniper berries involved, and usually a bunch of additional botanicals.

Dark rum - you are correct - to make it dark some molasses is added to an amber rum, makes it dark and sweet but boosts the calorie count. 

I'll stick to gin and amber rum.

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