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We first noticed this phenomenon a few years ago, when we were at anchor and some idiot in a homebuilt steel sailboat fired up a large generator on deck and proceeded to disappear down below. No amount of yelling or banging on the hull would bring him out. I can't imagine how loud it would have been down below, but they ran it for several hours...we left before they surfaced.

Fast forward to this year, and suddenly it's widespread. Any anchorage of more than six boats frequently results in at least one boat setting out a generator on the swim step. After that, it's 50/50. Half of the boaters disappear down below, presumably to cook in their all-electric galley. The other half get in the dinghy and bugger off, presumably because they can't stand the noise. It's not just the smaller powerboats that avail themselves of AC power, we encountered a couple on a newish Mainship 38 who ran the generator for hours and hours every day. They seemed like nice people, but totally clueless as to the noise pollution they were creating. It was one thing to have a boat with a nicely muffled genset in an anchorage, it's quite another to have one with a 2 kw gas generator running half the time. I have a theory that besides being inconsiderate assholes, these folks are inured to a lot of noise on a powerboat and they are used to living inside the boat. We live on the outside of our boat most of the daylight hours, as do many sailors, so we notice it more and we aren't used to living in a constant noise environment. 

Which brings me to this question. What to do about it? Dinghy over and give them shit? Write letters to the editor of all the boating magazines? Shoot the generator full of holes?

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I don't know that there is a solution but one thought would be to lobby for a rule at all state parks that outside gensets aren't allowed from an hour before sunset to an hour after sunrise. Something similar could be encouraged at private marinas/anchorages. 

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

We first noticed this phenomenon a few years ago, when we were at anchor and some idiot in a homebuilt steel sailboat fired up a large generator on deck and proceeded to disappear down below. No amount of yelling or banging on the hull would bring him out. I can't imagine how loud it would have been down below, but they ran it for several hours...we left before they surfaced.

Fast forward to this year, and suddenly it's widespread. Any anchorage of more than six boats frequently results in at least one boat setting out a generator on the swim step. After that, it's 50/50. Half of the boaters disappear down below, presumably to cook in their all-electric galley. The other half get in the dinghy and bugger off, presumably because they can't stand the noise. It's not just the smaller powerboats that avail themselves of AC power, we encountered a couple on a newish Mainship 38 who ran the generator for hours and hours every day. They seemed like nice people, but totally clueless as to the noise pollution they were creating. It was one thing to have a boat with a nicely muffled genset in an anchorage, it's quite another to have one with a 2 kw gas generator running half the time. I have a theory that besides being inconsiderate assholes, these folks are inured to a lot of noise on a powerboat and they are used to living inside the boat. We live on the outside of our boat most of the daylight hours, as do many sailors, so we notice it more and we aren't used to living in a constant noise environment. 

Which brings me to this question. What to do about it? Dinghy over and give them shit? Write letters to the editor of all the boating magazines? Shoot the generator full of holes?

 

Having just returned from 3 weeks on the water on the coast of Maine, noise pollution from boats is rampant the world around. Motor boats especially, because most seem entirely dependent on a large power source.

 

But sailboats too: If you're in an anchorage with several sailboats, usually one needs to run it's engine periodically to cool the reefer. 

 

Solutions? Offense may work. We had two big mobo trawlers approach us in a quiet anchorage. One anchored sufficiently far for generating. His twin circled us and started looked at spots on the other side of us. There was plenty of room with his friend. Mary Ann, having had about enough of speed boat action with some water skiers, gave then a serious stink eye. I made sure the dogs barked with a sharp toe in the ribs of one. He looked things over and decided to move onto the other side of his friend. We all slept well. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Dinghy over and give them shit?

Yes. Mostly works, but not always.  

I try to avoid super popular anchorages and/or use my shoal draft to stay far away.  

Interesting connection to the simplicity thread.... all these people going below into a/c living rooms to watch a movie.  My sin is I have to run my engine every couple of days to charge because of my fridge.     

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

We first noticed this phenomenon a few years ago, when we were at anchor and some idiot in a homebuilt steel sailboat fired up a large generator on deck and proceeded to disappear down below. No amount of yelling or banging on the hull would bring him out. I can't imagine how loud it would have been down below, but they ran it for several hours...we left before they surfaced.

Fast forward to this year, and suddenly it's widespread. Any anchorage of more than six boats frequently results in at least one boat setting out a generator on the swim step. After that, it's 50/50. Half of the boaters disappear down below, presumably to cook in their all-electric galley. The other half get in the dinghy and bugger off, presumably because they can't stand the noise. It's not just the smaller powerboats that avail themselves of AC power, we encountered a couple on a newish Mainship 38 who ran the generator for hours and hours every day. They seemed like nice people, but totally clueless as to the noise pollution they were creating. It was one thing to have a boat with a nicely muffled genset in an anchorage, it's quite another to have one with a 2 kw gas generator running half the time. I have a theory that besides being inconsiderate assholes, these folks are inured to a lot of noise on a powerboat and they are used to living inside the boat. We live on the outside of our boat most of the daylight hours, as do many sailors, so we notice it more and we aren't used to living in a constant noise environment. 

Which brings me to this question. What to do about it? Dinghy over and give them shit? Write letters to the editor of all the boating magazines? Shoot the generator full of holes?

Put the hearing protectors on, open the gun ports and have a round of practice with the gun crews?

"Do you want to see a guillotine in Piccadilly?   No!!!!

Call that raggedy ass Napoleon your King?  No!!!!     

Hear a generator in the anchorage?   No!!!!

To the starboard Battery!!!!"

- Stumbling

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Doesn't need a crowd...one half of the boats in this shot have a generator running. And yes, it's still annoying at that distance.

We run our engine every couple of days also for an hour or two. That powerboat was running it six hours a day.

hTXBANt.jpg

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What sort of generators are they running?  The modern Honda 2kw gassers (and the competing ones from Yamaha) are extremely quiet.

 

4 hours ago, Ishmael said:

 What to do about it? [...] Shoot the generator full of holes?

A carbon dioxide fire extinguisher is the best direct action.  Does no lasting harm and leaves no evidence.

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Its now a common problem.

The people who take up cruising  these days are just like the 4 wheel drive brigade in Australia, they want to get away from it all, yet take it all with them.

The really noisy wind generators have disappeared, only to be replaced by the Fu@@ng Honda 2 KW sets.

Non sailors , bringing their suburban values and PIG IGNORANCE to every anchorage . No thought for others.

 

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The Honda 2 kW are not that quiet when running with a load. They're just quiet when idling.

I like the CO2 idea.

I'll stick to a cordless drill and a long bit. Just need to aim slightly below the waterline.

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I cannot fathom dragging along a portable generator and the fuel for it. Integrated generator with exhaust below the water? Yeah,  I guess. 

Amazing the effort people will go to. 

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I have been going to Catalina Island since the late 50s as a kid.  Fast forward to a few years back and on to today.  Big powerboats in the mooring field, generators running all the time, noise and exhaust pollution...for what....like stated before...the big refer, big screen TV, A/C and god knows what else.  I guess this is the big money set's idea of roughing it.  Bet these folks never backpacked, camped out in a VW bus, were in the Army or the Marines, played in the woods and camped, and many other endeavors I could name.   Back in the day at the island...the silence was deafening.

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7 minutes ago, foamy1946 said:

I have been going to Catalina Island since the late 50s as a kid.  Fast forward to a few years back and on to today.  Big powerboats in the mooring field, generators running all the time, noise and exhaust pollution...for what....like stated before...the big refer, big screen TV, A/C and god knows what else.  I guess this is the big money set's idea of roughing it.  Bet these folks never backpacked, camped out in a VW bus, were in the Army or the Marines, played in the woods and camped, and many other endeavors I could name.   Back in the day at the island...the silence was deafening.

I camped a lot in the Canadian Rockies with my family growing up and it stayed with me, so I camped a lot solo in the 70's and 80's. I really enjoyed the stillness and nature all around. The first time I encountered that prescient wart of technology I was staying in my tent in Two Jack campground in Banff and a motorhome showed up in the next spot and proceeded to run their generator all night to run the heating and TV...I still remember that. I guess I never got over it. I'm not out there to listen to generators, I don't know why those people just don't stay at home if they can't live without vast amounts of AC.

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9 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I'm not out there to listen to generators, I don't know why those people just don't stay at home if they can't live without vast amounts of AC.

hear hear .

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As a true asshole when my peace is ruined in an anchorage, I can tell you that a spotlight is a very effective tool. When they ask what the hell you want, you tell them that you want them to turn off their fucking generator.

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4 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

What sort of generators are they running?  The modern Honda 2kw gassers (and the competing ones from Yamaha) are extremely quiet.

 

 

Not the one I had for a while when my old generator was failing. That thing was loud AF.

At least compared to the inboard genset with the in-water exhaust muffler. We've almost left it running once or twice it's so quiet above decks.

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"Contractor" grade portable generators are dirt cheap at any big hardware store. Loud as hell, but when the AC churning & the TV is blaring, those belowdecks can ignore them. When they leave the boat with the gen running, sneak over, shut the gen down, & cut off the cord end so it can't plug in. Those deplorables will not be able to fix it without a trip to West Marine.

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Proudly I would like to point out that our new (to us) motor-vessel WHITECAP has no generator.

Solar Panels manage to power everything just fine with a nice new large AGM bank of house batteries.

We just returned from a couple weeks in the islands and had a grand time telling the docks masters at the few docks where we moored  “no thanks we don’t need shore power.”

It is rather nice to be self contained. (But of course she is a “sailor’s motorboat.”)

Even better when anchored.

 

D5A0769C-B1E6-49B8-AAE4-8EB99E71A869.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

I cannot fathom dragging along a portable generator and the fuel for it. Integrated generator with exhaust below the water? Yeah,  I guess. 

Amazing the effort people will go to. 

The problems they're trying to solve are installed cost and annual maintenance.

There is a school of thought that, for occasional or backup use, you're better off with a ~2000w gasoline fired portable.  Keep it defueled below, pull it out when you need it, use the same gas you use for the dinghy motor.  Or some use propane conversions, even on a boat.  I myself wouldn't want to have anything to do with that sort of lashup because they're dangerous (CO, electric shock hazard, fuel handling hazard).  Then again there are some Farymann diesel gensets and other high-rpm setups that, even properly installed, are loud (albeit safer).  You pay with money and space to get something quiet.

Solar panels are quiet but... windage... It is rare that people can stay long at anchor without firing up a genset at some point to make water and top off the bank.

People running loud gensets to support their air conditioning at night... gross...

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I have a Honda 2000 aboard to run the ac at night. It’s too hot here in the summer to sleep w/out air. I do move far away from any boats when anchoring . When I see another hovering to drop the hook near us I tell the captain that I will be running my generator and I don’t want to bother them. They’re often very thankful and move elsewhere. I can run the AC on Eco mode (almost idle) which is very quiet but it costs me about $600 for the smart-start setup so that the generator doesn’t rev when the compressor kicks in  

I will say that it’s a PIA to setup, haul gasoline, etc.  Our next boat will have a below deck diesel. The last two times we chartered In the BVI the below deck gen sets were super quiet. 

Funny story about generators, when I raced aboard a Beneteau 49 across the Gulf of Mexico to Cuba, the captain ran his generator and AC the entire time.  It was spectacular coming off watch to bunk in a cool hotel room. We won our class too.

 

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4 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

...air conditioning at night...gross...

Yup. AC drives me batty. The noise and the chill. Those folks who think it necessary should choose a climate they prefer. Then sail there. Sheesh!

For reference, I’m in the Philippines. Pretty hot and sticky. No AC in house or boat. Sometimes in the hotels because the moron designers cannot fathom designing for the breeze.

My favorite genset ignoramus quotation is “We took the dinghy few boatlengths away and couldn’t even hear our genset.” Hilarious.

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This a Problem this side of the Atlantic especially the Norfolk Broads. The older Hire boats use a calorifier on their engines to heat the water. So they run their main engine for hours, so they can all have showers. Many of the newer boats Are Diesel Electric, the propulsion generators  also power the microwave / cooker / water heating, so  they  run that for hours.

All the official Authority moorings now have signs saying no running of engines while tied up, 20:00- 08:00 but this is widely ignored because the authority ranger have gone home by then...

 

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7 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I don't know why those people just don't stay at home if they can't live without vast amounts of AC.

This, exactly. That's why I started to see catamarans (charter ones, anyway) as being floating infamies, full of clueless flesh.

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14 minutes ago, leuk said:

This, exactly. That's why I started to see catamarans (charter ones, anyway) as being floating infamies, full of clueless flesh.

I second the observation, and nominate it to be presented to the Committee of Safety and Peaceful Anchorages!

- Stumbling

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These are the same people who pull into campsites with their big RV's right next to people camping in tents.  Drop their hydraulic levelers, extend out their sides, then extend an awning right to the edge of their campsite.  Next the "look at me I'm an asshole" christmas tree lights get thrown up and turned on, then the music gets turned up.  Lights get left on all night, diesel generator running, AC cycling every 20 minutes.

The same people who hop on their jetski and buzz up and down the beaches, within arms reach of swimmers, disturbing all the people who actually own houses there (wait, you mean people live there year round?  No shit?).  Having lived in a house on a busy waterway for quite a while, the number of assholes driving up and down is amazing.  Usually their stereos are turned up so that from 150 yards away you can hear every word of their obscene rap about bitches and hoes.

These type of people literally don't think about it.  They don't.  It doesn't even enter their mind to consider people around them.  I have a relative like this and it is how they live their life.  They just have zero situational awareness, and never think about anyone but themselves.  Even to the point where they bring their own take-out to get-togethers to make sure they have exactly what they want to eat.

Same people who travel at higher rates of speed in flooded areas (like right now) so that the wake they make literally washes up into the yards of people.  It's beyond entitlement.  They don't believe anything exists beyond the small circle that encloses themselves.

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4 hours ago, El Boracho said:

Yup. AC drives me batty. The noise and the chill. Those folks who think it necessary should choose a climate they prefer. Then sail there. Sheesh!

For reference, I’m in the Philippines. Pretty hot and sticky. No AC in house or boat. Sometimes in the hotels because the moron designers cannot fathom designing for the breeze.

My favorite genset ignoramus quotation is “We took the dinghy few boatlengths away and couldn’t even hear our genset.” Hilarious.

Welllllll... it's not as easy as all that.  Work is here, so here I sail.

I don't and won't run a portable genset on my boat but for just 3 or 4 times a year, I do carry a small, residential window air-conditioning unit to run off of marina 110v power. I'm talking when the temperature is approaching 100F ambient, with 80-90% humidity with zero breeze flowing through the cabin. Even fans in the v-berth don't help in those conditions. I could probably survive it alone, but my wife finds it unpleasant and we just radiate body heat into each other in the close confines, making it worse.

The a/c isn't anything like generator noise. My wife and I can have a normal conversation without raising our voices while sitting next to it. Not to mention, everyone else is running a/c while tied up at the marina so we're all insulated by our own white noise.

On the hook, in an undeveloped anchorage? I would never run a generator. I'm self-aware enough to identify the difference between a wild, natural anchorage and a mooring ball next to a row of noisy, all-night pubs in Annapolis or a slip in a marina.  It is this self-awareness and courtesy that is lacking.

I hate racking up hours on my engine so I won't use it to charge the battery unless I'm in extremis. My new, 160 watt solar panel is doing a fantastic job of keeping up with my house loads, including refrigeration. I'm about to add another house battery which virtually ensure that I don't run my engine to charge the batteries.  If I do have a run of poor weather that impacts my charging, I'll still last long enough to make it to a marina to plug the 110v charger in.

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_JMD6257.thumb.JPG.41ebdb9edfdbc96031840a14b9b8a465.JPG

 

For your pleasure, in the first of photographs of genset free anchorages. The Farne Islands, off North East England, near Lindisfarne. Above at low water, below at high - the tripper boats take people to the famous light house, and when they go in the evening, you are on your own, at low water seemingly in a large rock-pool in the middle of the sea. Absolutely remarkable place. And not much call for air-conditioning, either!

 

79762315_Farneanchorage.thumb.jpg.3335a3aa0c7e3036e2a282f6a83d051a.jpg

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Welllllll... it's not as easy as all that.  Work is here, so here I sail.

I don't and won't run a portable genset on my boat but for just 3 or 4 times a year, I do carry a small, residential window air-conditioning unit to run off of marina 110v power. I'm talking when the temperature is approaching 100F ambient, with 80-90% humidity with zero breeze flowing through the cabin. Even fans in the v-berth don't help in those conditions. I could probably survive it alone, but my wife finds it unpleasant and we just radiate body heat into each other in the close confines, making it worse.

The a/c isn't anything like generator noise. My wife and I can have a normal conversation without raising our voices while sitting next to it. Not to mention, everyone else is running a/c while tied up at the marina so we're all insulated by our own white noise.

On the hook, in an undeveloped anchorage? I would never run a generator. I'm self-aware enough to identify the difference between a wild, natural anchorage and a mooring ball next to a row of noisy, all-night pubs in Annapolis or a slip in a marina.  It is this self-awareness and courtesy that is lacking.

I hate racking up hours on my engine so I won't use it to charge the battery unless I'm in extremis. My new, 160 watt solar panel is doing a fantastic job of keeping up with my house loads, including refrigeration. I'm about to add another house battery which virtually ensure that I don't run my engine to charge the batteries.  If I do have a run of poor weather that impacts my charging, I'll still last long enough to make it to a marina to plug the 110v charger in.

The only time we use the A/C is if we're stuck in a marina. You don't get good breezes and you aren't pointing into the designed airflow.

The only outside noise from our A/C is the water peeing out the side.

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They are everywhere in SoCal too, and we really don’t need AC on our boats here, though some have it. On my boat the Adler Barbour reefer was the main electrical load.  Even when moving every couple of days running the engine while cruising the Channel Islands, the batteries would slowly deplete.  I had a Honda 500 generator that I did not like to use, but did so occasionally.  I made it my mission to avoid this, I added insulation around the icebox, beefed up the house bank with golf cart batteries and separate engine start battery, I added a smart regulator and Balmar alternator (which later burned up), and a small solar panel.  Changed out the anchor light and most-used cabin lights to LED. Replaced a 20a shorepower charger with a 30a to reduce run time. 

 All of this added up and in my last few years with the boat I’d have to resort to the Honda just once in a 10 day cruise, depending how much motoring I did.

But doing all that stuff is hard work.  It wasn’t all that expensive, but figuring out the charging system stuff and installing it does take work (or money if you pay people to do it).  Unfortunately pulling out a Honda is much easier.  

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16 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

I could just say come sailing in the West of Ireland. :) 

Crowded anchorages? I don’t think so. 

Don't speak too soon... I was plagued by RIBs and jet skis all summer. 

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You have to be pro active to protect your spot.

When they come to look for a spot to anchor, being nude on deck works well. Wave the Willy, bend over and give em a view of your stern gland while you look down the hatch...in still anchorages, a pall of tobacco smoke might work, just burn it like incense. A wood stove on the boat might have the same effect, especially a dung burning unit. In hotter places, a green poo bag from rover will work at closer range.

If they are there already there in a large anchorage then I suggest the cordless drill idea or the less intrusive but still effective dog poo on the genset exhaust while they are away.:ph34r:

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Portable gens have become too cheap and easy. Once $2000 and stupid heavy, they are now $600 and the size of a suitcase. And so the folks that cant figure out life without 110v all the time can afford the entry costs. 

Its become the same in cottage country, buy a cheap off the grid cottage , then run a genset ALL fucking day so your kids can enjoy gaming, Lord knows there's nothing else to do at a cottage, on a lake.....

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Its not just the crowd with the little suitcase generators.  Add the folks with the unmaintained older installed generator to you list of clueless.  People so inept that they have no idea how to maintain their equipment and when that old generator installed in 1990 and its now rusted and broken exhaust runs they open the locker to let the CO and the noise out.

And while were bitching.  the screaming kids or wife calling out to them.

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We had an otherwise idyllic evening three weeks ago anchored between Devil and Bold Islands, Merchant Row, Maine rudely interrupted by a catamaran running its genset all evening. Why is it that those who motor most (powerboats, followed by sailing catamarans, followed by sailing monohulls) and so have the most opportunity to charge their batteries underway seem to be those who most need to run a genset? 

Over 17 days, we ran our engine for battery charging for about one hour in total, that being a day when it rained.

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Generator noise...

image.jpeg.c5a636f92efdf14366306df7aa164a29.jpeg

We've solved the 'run the engine' problem with 2x100 W solar panels on our bimini and a solar shower. The panels are flexible and attached with button snaps and so easily removable at seasons end. They keep the 12V fridge running at max cool. 

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5 hours ago, leuk said:

This, exactly. That's why I started to see catamarans (charter ones, anyway) as being floating infamies, full of clueless flesh.

There's so much in this thread to identify with! We don't have lots of modern cruising cats here, but god they are ugly. There's so many kinds of pollution. Noise pollution can affect my mood the quickest, but a really ugly powerboat or a cat that looks like it got inflated with a tire pump can really ruin the view. Photos of the "good old days" where just about every boat added to the beauty of the scene makes me wish I could transport back sometimes.

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4 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

The only time we use the A/C is if we're stuck in a marina. You don't get good breezes and you aren't pointing into the designed airflow.

The only outside noise from our A/C is the water peeing out the side.

That splashing noise drives me nuts. Inconsiderate prick.  ;)

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16 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

As a true asshole when my peace is ruined in an anchorage, I can tell you that a spotlight is a very effective tool. When they ask what the hell you want, you tell them that you want them to turn off their fucking generator.

works for me :)

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4 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

a really ugly powerboat or a cat that looks like it got inflated with a tire pump can really ruin the view.

That makes me think about the poor turn that today's raft-ups have taken, compared to the old days..when everyone was barely dressed, weighed 35% less, had cool boats, and life was good

Related image

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13 minutes ago, blurocketsmate said:

Even if they're quiet there's still smoke/particulate. Living in that cloud can't be healthy.

 

Waxing serious for a moment, no one has yet mentioned the significant risk of CO poisoning from one's own generator at anchor. And there are cases of generators killing people in adjacent boats with CO. One of the reasons I have not considered one.

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This is very revealing to me. It's been years since I did much overnighting on the hook - 1970s, Elliot Key in South Biscayne Bay in an 18 foot Alberg Typhoon. I recall one occasion when  a stink potter ran his generator for a couple of hours. He was a few hundred yards from us, but I could see the glow of the B&W TV. How sick I thought.

Today, when almost all of my sailing is daysailing on a lake, I am astounded by the thoughtlessness of stink potters who play their music so that everyone within a mile has to hear it. It's the end of civilization.

To @Woods Rider, perhaps you should limit your cruising to temperate times of the year, rather than subject other boats and the environment to a fossil fuel generator.

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Probably worse in certain locales but the only real solution is to move. Generally those in generation genset, are old fat fucks or young fat fucks who's idea of boating probably doesnt extend to that bay or coast where theres a little more roll or wind. Keep away from calm anchorages, powerboats, yachts with mega junk on the trunk, Brent Swain, Florida, every variety of fat fuck and you should be ok.

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They really suck. The low cost vs all the alt charging stuff is the reason.  You can get a can of gas and a Costco Yamaha and off you go for a few hundred bucks.  Sort of falls into the douchebag who always take the dock cart and keeps it or anchors ten feet away catagory.  Can't fight it have to move on.

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On 8/18/2019 at 4:43 PM, Mr. Ed said:

I could just say come sailing in the West of Ireland. :) 

Crowded anchorages? I don’t think so. 

I saw a sailboat at “anchorage” a couple of weeks ago, down around Nun’s Island in Galway Iirc.

at least I think it was a sailboat, unless of course that mast sticking up a few feet over the waterline was just boat less

;-)

 

I’ll post the picture if I can locate it....

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13 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

They really suck. The low cost vs all the alt charging stuff is the reason.  You can get a can of gas and a Costco Yamaha and off you go for a few hundred bucks.  Sort of falls into the douchebag who always take the dock cart and keeps it or anchors ten feet away catagory.  Can't fight it have to move on.

I'm afraid I agree. All we can do is move on and push out further.

Confronting people, or even politely asking them to adjust their anchorage swing, moderate their music or generator use is usually met with ambivalence at best, or outright hostility at worst and it doesn't matter if it's power or sail. I've seen rudeness and stupidity on boat parts. Yeah, the sugar packet in the fuel tank at night is tempting but that's just sinking to their level. I would never do it.

I realize that some sailors operate in areas with limited natural anchorages or limited harbors of any kind, so pushing out further is very difficult. We're pretty lucky in the Chesapeake in that we have an insane amount of bays and coves in all stages of development to choose from, and you can usually get as far away from people as you'd like.

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Is it that so many people are clueless about this kind of stuff, or are they just assholes? If they're just clueless, there may be hope. On the other hand...

I read a very depressing novel recently, American War by Omar El Akkad. It is set in a near-future United States, ravaged by climate change, in which a second Civil War has broken out over the use of fossil fuels. I have become more concerned about this type of behavior. The other day, I took my paddle board to a local lake. When I was leaving, a family drove up in their mini-van, and for the 5 - 10 minutes it took to unload their stuff, they left the motor and a/c running. That makes me crazy. I almost spoke to them, but realizing that I might not be diplomatic, I didn't say anything.

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19 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Is it that so many people are clueless about this kind of stuff, or are they just assholes? If they're just clueless, there may be hope. On the other hand...

I read a very depressing novel recently, American War by Omar El Akkad. It is set in a near-future United States, ravaged by climate change, in which a second Civil War has broken out over the use of fossil fuels. I have become more concerned about this type of behavior. The other day, I took my paddle board to a local lake. When I was leaving, a family drove up in their mini-van, and for the 5 - 10 minutes it took to unload their stuff, they left the motor and a/c running. That makes me crazy. I almost spoke to them, but realizing that I might not be diplomatic, I didn't say anything.

Try it and let us know how it works out. Even if you were diplomatic, I doubt the results would be positive.

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Bull city,

they’re assholes. 

We hang out in a tricky-to-enter, high-current tidal creek. These characteristics used to ensure that few, and those few would be decent, anchored there. 

And then one day, a fella who spends his time there was kind enough to show a couple of his friends how to get in. The friends had to wait on the high tide. Meanwhile, a set of ‘buddy boats’ (‘buddy boats’ are a red flag!!) overheard the VHF convo. 

So the buddy boats sped into the cut and literally circled the two anchored within until they left (one was me) and jammed up the incoming, invited, other boat, and I later found out they engaged in other rude fuckery. Absolutely incredible rudeness. 

So, I posted a general primer on anchoring etiquette (from a sailing magazine) on a relevant FB forum. Guess who popped out of the woodwork... the very boat which circled me responded with contempt and snidery.

These weren’t bums; the boat was not low-rent. The general fuckery isn’t rare, although this was particularly egregious.

I am honestly saddened and disappointed in the cruising population, to the point where I disown the moniker ‘cruiser,’ and am contemplating getting out of the life after having spent years, never mind the money, trying to achieve the lifestyle. 

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15 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Is it that so many people are clueless about this kind of stuff, or are they just assholes?

I've thought about it a lot and I think the main thing is that there isn't widespread agreement on shared values.  From the point of view of people running generators, they're engaging in their chosen form of recreation and complying with any applicable laws, ordinances, etc.  As they see it they have chosen an area where what they are doing is safe, legal, and all on the up and up; they have avoided areas where motorized equipment, noise, and so on are prohibited.  They might even believe that they have taken up boating specifically to have access to areas where there are fewer rules.

Same reasoning applies in many other activities/situations.

I don't think there's any way to solve it although some better standards for noise and emissions for portable electric generators would help in a number of ways.  I understand that there have been several legislative efforts, which have been defeated by the industry's lobbyists.

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This past Saturday morning, I was motoring to the starting area of a charity regatta. There was zero, nada wind.

I was mid-point between the mouth of my river and Thomas Point Lighthouse, out in the middle of the Chesapeake.  Figure a mile or more.  There are NO other boats anywhere near me except for a cluster of fishing boats very close to the lighthouse, about a mile or so away.

A 60 foot motor yacht flying the Annapolis Yacht Club burgee from their boat overtook me at full speed, making a 3.5 foot high wake, a mere 15 yards away, rocking me wildly.  I thanked the skipper for doing "the absolute barest minimum required under the regulations to keep clear while overtaking from astern."  His reply was "You're welcome."  The guy had the entire bay and plenty of deep water to maneuver in, but couldn't spare me more than 45 feet when overtaking me.

@2airishuman is correct in that there are no shared values.  The skipper "complied with any applicable laws" and as far as he was concerned, that's all I was entitled to.

Courtesy? Fuck you.

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I thought that boats were responsible for their wake whether or not they are in a no-wake zone. 

Any priceless Ming vases fall off the salon table? Did you fall and sprain your neck? 

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30 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I thought that boats were responsible for their wake whether or not they are in a no-wake zone. 

Any priceless Ming vases fall off the salon table? Did you fall and sprain your neck? 

That first line eludes many boaters.  The sign says "6 KTS" and I was going 6 kts. It doesn't matter that my deep-V hull rocked every boat in the marina to the point that the rigs were banging against each other.

No Ming vases but I was tossed across the cockpit and banged my head against the stern pulpit rail.

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This godforsaken, goddamned “small” 650 ft (I looked it up) cruise ship anchored in the early morning near us up the BC coast a few weeks ago.  Then the constant sound of industrial machinery in the background as gens and such ran.

We pulled up and left.  I’d call them assholes, but that’s not quite right as a description.  They’re just “doing their job”, pleasing the paying passengers.  So, we left.  

43BCB9AE-073A-45A7-BE63-7A557DC62E70.png

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In my brooding about global warming since reading that depressing book, I am becoming more averse to flying. Months ago, Mrs. Bull and I planned a trip to Greece for next month, which will involve flying. I am committed to going by sea next time.

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19 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I guess Edmund Burke was right.

"Manners are more important than laws."

And manners are disappearing.

Bull is right, and you see it everywhere, not just at a formerly quiet anchorage.  How many times have you heard a flight attendant announce that the flight was full, so please only put one bag in the overhead compartment, and your smaller bag under the seat in front of you, only to watch a half of the first folks on the airplane shove all their bags, their coat, their shopping bag, etc all into the overhead compartment?  Or the person who comes out of the grocery store, unloads their cart into the car, and then just leave the cart, instead of pushing it the 25 ft over to the cart "coral"?  Or the utter lack of consideration for other drivers on the highway?

What was utterly unacceptable public behavior 30 years ago, has become acceptable, in part, I believe, because we no longer call such people out for rude or unthoughtful actions.  Because we no longer care what anyone else thinks of us.  Because "everyone else is doing it"

But before we get to high and mighty about it all, just take a trip over to PA, and notice how rude we are to each other...:(

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28 minutes ago, Bull City said:

In my brooding about global warming since reading that depressing book, I am becoming more averse to flying. Months ago, Mrs. Bull and I planned a trip to Greece for next month, which will involve flying. I am committed to going by sea next time.

recently researchers from the University of Britsh Columbia's Department of geography measured the emmisions caused by the campus https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-academics-boycott-air-travel-1.5214424https://pics.uvic.ca/sites/default/files/AirTravelWP_FINAL.pdf

 

"Seth Wynes, a geography student doing his PhD at UBC, published a study this month on the impacts of greenhouse gas emissions from all the air travel stemming from his university. 

His research found that the carbon emissions from the flights of UBC employees are almost as high as heating the university's campus for a year.

"Somewhere in between half to two-thirds of emissions on our university's campus come from air travel," Wynes said."

 

wow 2/3 of 02 emissions attributed to a campus comes from air travel..yikes!

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@chester That is amazing. I sent the link to one of my sons, a geography professor.

And another thing! Have y'all noticed how a lot of SUV advertising features the SUV in a nature friendly setting? Like driving up the side of a mountain or crossing a freshwater stream? Kind of nauseates me.

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5 hours ago, Ajax said:

... I was motoring ...

A 60 foot motor yacht flying the Annapolis Yacht Club burgee from their boat overtook me at full speed, making a 3.5 foot high wake, a mere 15 yards away, rocking me wildly.  I thanked the skipper for doing "the absolute barest minimum required under the regulations to keep clear while overtaking from astern."  His reply was "You're welcome."  The guy had the entire bay and plenty of deep water to maneuver in, but couldn't spare me more than 45 feet when overtaking me.

 

Overall, we have it easy, wake wise, compared to the flat-bottomed houseboats, canoes, 'yaks, and beamy little open fishing boats.  I don't think many casual boaters understand how their wake affects different kinds of boats, let alone how it affects sailboats under bare poles but, largely, not sailboats under sail.

60 foot motor yachts (except trawlers) are like jet skis -- there's no way to operate them as they're designed and intended to be operated without being an asshole.  Unless you have a lake to yourself or something.  In both cases people who drive these things get so callous, IMO, that they just don't care anymore.

 

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8 hours ago, Ajax said:

A 60 foot motor yacht flying the Annapolis Yacht Club burgee from their boat overtook me at full speed, making a 3.5 foot high wake, a mere 15 yards away, rocking me wildly.  I thanked the skipper for doing "the absolute barest minimum required under the regulations to keep clear while overtaking from astern."  His reply was "You're welcome."  The guy had the entire bay and plenty of deep water to maneuver in, but couldn't spare me more than 45 feet when overtaking me.

Did you hail him on VHF?

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Sorry everyone for my smug “come to Donegal for quiet anchorages” rant for we’ve just had a vexing evening at Mullaghmore - delightful otherwise - with speedboats water skiers and jet skis disturbing our evening. Topped off with microlight aircraft making a racket from above. 

OK, it’s in Sligo, but still....

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Just overnighted in a popular local spot (Rogue's Roost), about 20 boats overnight and a dozen power and commercial lobster boats were in and out.  The only generator heard was started up this morning at 10:30, I can live with that.  Worst annoyance was a couple of the local power boats going thru at high speed.

Does starting my Espar at 8 count me in the inconsiderate group?  It is pretty quiet.

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Once upon a time, if a storm knocked out power, our neighborhood fell silent. Now it's an excuse for half our neighbors to drad out a generator and begin a cacauphany that continues until the lights come on again.

Not just a problem on the water.

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20 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

Once upon a time, if a storm knocked out power, our neighborhood fell silent. Now it's an excuse for half our neighbors to drad out a generator and begin a cacauphany that continues until the lights come on again.

Not just a problem on the water.

I'm pleased to report that a Tesla Powerwall is completely silent, maintenance free and shifts loads faster than any generator. :D

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On 8/18/2019 at 11:36 PM, El Boracho said:

For reference, I’m in the Philippines. Pretty hot and sticky. No AC in house or boat. Sometimes in the hotels because the moron designers cannot fathom designing for the breeze.

A little off topic, but old school architecture for that climate is great.  I spent about a month in an older Hawaiian hotel that was tri-lobe shaped.  The trades would blow in through one side of the room and out the other.  It was spectacular.  No AC unit anywhere to be found.  

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these cheap chinese gas generators you can get for $250 are extremely loud. Seem like they make more noise than power. I had one with a rental camper to charge the batteries for an hour a day, couldnt stand it. Ive never used one of the $1000 Hondas, but i dont imagine they are much quieter. Seems like if you want a genset at anchor you should get a properly installed and muffled diesel.

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1 hour ago, SemiSalt said:

Once upon a time, if a storm knocked out power, our neighborhood fell silent. Now it's an excuse for half our neighbors to drad out a generator and begin a cacauphany that continues until the lights come on again.

Not just a problem on the water.

I've got a third variation. We spent last night on the Tacoma Seaport Museum dock. For the low, low price of only $1/ft, you get no power on 2/3rds of the dock, no bathrooms, no showers, and no unsightly cans or dumpsters for your trash. What you do get are groups of drunk guys who set up shop with a genset and lights to jig for squid from 10pm until 5am. 

Tacoma has come a long way in the last decade but with a low bridge blocking most of their marina space from taller sailboats, the remaining private Marina on the north side of the bridge chronically booked, and the sketchy Museum dock, it's still not high on the destination list.

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On 8/26/2019 at 9:19 AM, Ajax said:

I'm pleased to report that a Tesla Powerwall is completely silent, maintenance free and shifts loads faster than any generator. :D

You have one?  On a boat?  I keep thinking these might be great for boats.

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4 hours ago, blurocketsmate said:

You have one?  On a boat?  I keep thinking these might be great for boats.

No,  at home. It's way too big for a boat. 

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On 8/19/2019 at 9:57 PM, Max Rockatansky said:

It’s everywhere, including once-remote areas like the Ragged Islands and southern Bahamas. Blame the proliferation of electronic nav, and Bob ‘Just Go!’ Bitchin and his ‘anyone can go cruising’ ilk. 

Oh I am so so happy that finally someone uses the correct word instead of elk (in relation to which I hope I am not missing some SA agreed usage).  It drives me insane.

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1 hour ago, Windward said:

I've studied 1000's of threads, and there seem to be a lot of elk about these here parts.

Yeah, only really thoughtless cruisers keep elk onboard. Totally ruins the anchorage. 

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On 8/19/2019 at 2:45 PM, Mr. Ed said:

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For your pleasure, in the first of photographs of genset free anchorages. The Farne Islands, off North East England, near Lindisfarne. Above at low water, below at high - the tripper boats take people to the famous light house, and when they go in the evening, you are on your own, at low water seemingly in a large rock-pool in the middle of the sea. Absolutely remarkable place. And not much call for air-conditioning, either!

 

79762315_Farneanchorage.thumb.jpg.3335a3aa0c7e3036e2a282f6a83d051a.jpg

TBH, I've only been bothered once by a genset (St Peter port - Guernsey, a guy on a posh oyster running it most of the time), noisy wind generators are quite common though here.

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On 8/31/2019 at 7:09 PM, Ajax said:

No,  at home. It's way too big for a boat. 

No bigger than the 3 8Ds we had on a 50-footer.  If it could be laid flat (can it?), a Powerwall would fit in that same space under the settee, or in our engine room.  

I'm not sure it would fit the use but it's an interesting idea -- a lot of lithium battery and management system for the money, vs. the pieced-together, custom arrangements that are going into boats, or the cost of a generator plus installation.

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