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Broken Becket Harken


DaveK

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I've got a 10:1 mainsheet with a harken 57mm triple block that broke the becket off . Seems like a really weak design if you just look at it and nothing funny happened. Just sheeting in and bang. Pretty sure it's unfixable as well. I know it's only $220 or so for a new one but I hate to but the same thing again. I can't find anything similar in Ronstan here in USA. Lewmar has 50mm and 60mm but really have no experience with there blocks. Anyone have any other recommendations or experience with Harken beckets braking off???

becket.thumb.jpg.a768f963fbd89fafb091ebfc2e33fa92.jpg

 

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37 minutes ago, Guvacine said:

At 10:1 there is not going to be much load on the becket. Maybe it was something else - got hit against something hard when shaking around unloaded?

It's possible..... and I just did not notice it. But trimarans mainsheets are pretty loaded up. There's times I can't budge it.

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36 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The old rule of thumb was "If it breaks it was too small".

I'd go up to the next bigger block.

Yeah and after rethinking this, that becket has another triple block attached to it so it takes on 30% of the load..... not 1/10th

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6 hours ago, DaveK said:

I've got a 10:1 mainsheet with a harken 57mm triple block that broke the becket off . Seems like a really weak design if you just look at it and nothing funny happened. Just sheeting in and bang. Pretty sure it's unfixable as well. I know it's only $220 or so for a new one but I hate to but the same thing again. I can't find anything similar in Ronstan here in USA. Lewmar has 50mm and 60mm but really have no experience with there blocks. Anyone have any other recommendations or experience with Harken beckets braking off???

becket.thumb.jpg.a768f963fbd89fafb091ebfc2e33fa92.jpg

 

Add a SS eyestrap under the nuts where the cam cleat attaches, you might need some longer fasteners. 

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Many Harken blocks can be repaired.  I found an aluminum Harken Big Boat block that had been underwater for a few years, an encrusted mess, that with a thorough scrubbing, disassembly with the help of PB-Blaster and replacement of the delrin cheek ball bearings is now good as new.  The mindblower was I went to my local chandlery and they had the ball bearings in stock!

Your situation is different, a failure like that means the block is undersized.

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9 hours ago, DaveK said:

I've got a 10:1 mainsheet with a harken 57mm triple block that broke the becket off . Seems like a really weak design if you just look at it and nothing funny happened. Just sheeting in and bang. Pretty sure it's unfixable as well. I know it's only $220 or so for a new one but I hate to but the same thing again. I can't find anything similar in Ronstan here in USA. Lewmar has 50mm and 60mm but really have no experience with there blocks. Anyone have any other recommendations or experience with Harken beckets braking off???

becket.thumb.jpg.a768f963fbd89fafb091ebfc2e33fa92.jpg

 

I would talk to Harken, They are good folks.

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Harken said another triple block is not meant to be hung off that becket...... And that I should be using 75mm not 57mm with a 12:1 system but even 75mm can't handle a triple hung off that. So now I'm not sure what I'll do........

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On 9/3/2019 at 9:45 PM, DaveK said:

Harken said another triple block is not meant to be hung off that becket...... And that I should be using 75mm not 57mm with a 12:1 system but even 75mm can't handle a triple hung off that. So now I'm not sure what I'll do........

It's obvious the becket is meant just for the end of the line, thus 1/6 of the total block load. If you hang another tripple block to that you will have the full load on the becket and double the full load on the schackle of the lower block. 

You first said 10:1 and now 12:1. What kind of boat works well with that? A multihull? For most boats 4:1 or 6:1 + 4:1 fine tune would work much better. 

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4 hours ago, Joakim said:

It's obvious the becket is meant just for the end of the line, thus 1/6 of the total block load. If you hang another tripple block to that you will have the full load on the becket and double the full load on the schackle of the lower block. 

You first said 10:1 and now 12:1. What kind of boat works well with that? A multihull? For most boats 4:1 or 6:1 + 4:1 fine tune would work much better. 

I was wrong about 10:1. It's 4 triple blocks. 2 at the traveler and 2 off the boom. The Harken guy corrected me. It's a common setup used on Corsair 24' tri's. I bought the boat rigged this way.

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4 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

28-101.jpg

28-121.jpg

20514198-96fc-4709-989c-ecaacf7de2ac_lar

The problem is these are all beach cat blocks.  Crash gybe on a tri would destroy them pretty quickly.

 

I would think any of those would be strong enough for my boat...... And god forbid I ever crash gybe my tri...

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I've got a triple that is broken just like yours in my box of spares.

The Nacra 20C runs a triple on the bottom with a single block on either the becket or the strap on top of the cleat.... don't remember which.  Regardless, it uses two "mickey mouse" bolt on block on the side.  Looks like this: https://www.h2o-sensations.com/en/harken-purchase-system/3024-harken-carbo-57mm-sixtuple-ratchet-for-121-system-2000000030241.html?search_query=12%3A1&results=102

I don't remember exactly how Bo has his mainsheet on the 31-1D setup, but he's got the same small blocks on the side.  They sort of scare me b/c they bend and I've seen guys break them; probably better than running a triple off of the becket like you were, however.  I'll upgrade to the GP system eventually.

You might want to look into these https://www.murrays.com/product/56-9964/

 

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Thanks @wlrottge! I've gotta buy something now.... it all went toast this weekend. Tried the soft shackle thing thru what was left but it all let go on the 2nd upwind beat. As said before, the question is that all those other 12:1 or 10:1 blocks are for beach cats. I'm gonna call Harken again today and just see what they recommend.

becket3.thumb.jpg.129684030286a2e903e9e51d8cec9b15.jpg

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I think having the triple on the becket is as Harken said the problem.

What about putting a single on the becket and a double on a pad eye on the back side of the cleat?  (If you need another triple auto ratchet, I have two or three good ones in my box.... had a lot of spare parts come with a boat a couple of years ago).

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3 hours ago, wlrottge said:

I think having the triple on the becket is as Harken said the problem.

What about putting a single on the becket and a double on a pad eye on the back side of the cleat?  (If you need another triple auto ratchet, I have two or three good ones in my box.... had a lot of spare parts come with a boat a couple of years ago).

I appreciate the ideas!! I think I'm gonna just buy this thing and it'll solve the problem..... I hope.

https://www.murrays.com/product/56-9953/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkeelhK3E5AIVwwOGCh0loQj0EAkYAyABEgKQo_D_BwE

 

BTW, do I know you?? This is Dave Kleinman.... I'm guessing you sail at LCYC

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38 minutes ago, Medströms said:

Or go for a Garhaur tripple block in stailess steel. I have 6 Garhauer blocks in aluminium for my X-382. Four in the "German Main Sheet" and two to be able to sheet the jib in the railing och open winds.

 

Garhauer.JPG

Wow.... that looks pretty f'ing solid!!  I had already bought cascade setup to add in my system. So basically go back to a 6:1 mainsheet with a 3:1 or 4:1 cascade that'll make it 18:1 or 24:1 fine adjustment.... but if I don't like that, I'll buy one of these!! I never heard of this company before! Thanks!!

 

cascade1.jpg.81f470985dba3cd9a3923480fe8d7af9.jpg

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1 hour ago, longy said:

Garhauer is reasonable tech & price, but heavy. Compare working loads & weights.

SWL- 3500 Lbs which is pretty good compared to Harkens @ 2380 Lbs. I'm not much of a weight wennie.... and never really was even when I raced dinghies. Plus more beer is better :)

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2 hours ago, DaveK said:

SWL- 3500 Lbs which is pretty good compared to Harkens @ 2380 Lbs. I'm not much of a weight wennie.... and never really was even when I raced dinghies. Plus more beer is better :)

Garhauer is no fly by night. They're OEM on most/all Catalinas.

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Harken doesn't load rate that becket for more than a single block. They also advise against running a pair of doubles off the cleat attachment with a SS eye strap, though I've run that setup on my old F18 and it was fine (and still is 10 years later). The issue is the original blocks have plastic side pieces; those WILL fail at the wrong time if you put a becket above the cleat. This is the prefered arrangement, but you loose the carbo ratchamatic, its just a standard ratchet (still works well): https://www.murrays.com/product/56-9953/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkeelhK3E5AIVwwOGCh0loQj0EAkYAyABEgKQo_D_BwE

I haven't seen the 40mm fails, but I could see how they would.

Ronstan do make a 12:1 mainsheet that is pretty close to the Harken GP system; if you replaced the bearings with ceramic it would be identical or potentially better, but the Harken reeving is a bit better.

The Ronstan part numbers are:

1) B060-0986 6 sheave top
2) B060-1404 6 sheave lower with ratchet and cleat.
 
These come out of Ronstan Europe and are a special order item with a retail price of ~$1800 USD, so aren't cheap.
 
The best bet for a trimaran where weight is less critical is to go up a size in hardware, 75mm Harken gear is pretty bullet proof. I would also check what the F-22 is shipping with.
 
 

Ronstan Blocks.jpg

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Yeah @samc99us for the record.... I had have a 10:1 not 12:1 so essentially what you are showing except the double was hanging off the becket. The boat had probably been rigged that way for many years and was when I bought it. And 10:1 is a bitch to sheet in with 20mph wind. So I thought I'd buy the 12:1 like the one in this link....

https://www.murrays.com/product/56-9964/

But a buddy convinced me that it would be a bitch to sheet out in light air so that's why I bought the cascade setup with twin sheets.... plus it only cost me $200 to try it

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Hey Dave,

  Understood, but if you look at the instructions for those blocks, hanging additional blocks off the becket beyond one isn't good...it will probably work in most situations for a while, but will eventually break.

As for the 10:1 vs 12:1 feed, I was told the same thing by a friend several years ago, then upped to 12:1 when in >20kts of breeze I had trouble sheeting the new sail and subsequently asked myself why I didn't do this sooner! That setup I added a pair of blocks to a 10:1 system. Anyway, yes it can be a touch slower to ease in light air but really not an issue until its less than 5kts, then we will take one or two reeves out of the system. A tapered mainsheet is also recommended (and cheaper). On the tri, I might be a bit concerned about easing in breeze as getting that much line to pay out can take more time, but you also have the traveler which should respond faster.

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6 hours ago, samc99us said:

The issue is the original blocks have plastic side pieces; those WILL fail at the wrong time if you put a becket above the cleat

I forgot about that.... now I remember why we don't do it, lol

I feel like the 12:1 is a little slow as well, but... maybe I'll get used to it.

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4 hours ago, samc99us said:

Hey Dave,

  Understood, but if you look at the instructions for those blocks, hanging additional blocks off the becket beyond one isn't good...it will probably work in most situations for a while, but will eventually break.

As for the 10:1 vs 12:1 feed, I was told the same thing by a friend several years ago, then upped to 12:1 when in >20kts of breeze I had trouble sheeting the new sail and subsequently asked myself why I didn't do this sooner! That setup I added a pair of blocks to a 10:1 system. Anyway, yes it can be a touch slower to ease in light air but really not an issue until its less than 5kts, then we will take one or two reeves out of the system. A tapered mainsheet is also recommended (and cheaper). On the tri, I might be a bit concerned about easing in breeze as getting that much line to pay out can take more time, but you also have the traveler which should respond faster.

The becket is already broke... lol. We got that covered..... I'm adding the other set of blocks to a different spot on the traveler car and still using the same triple with broke becket....lol

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On 9/14/2019 at 1:02 AM, Joakim said:

First you said it's 10:1, then 12:1 and now again 10:1. So which one is it?

Thanks for keeping up with my persistent flip flopping in this pose :) It was 10:1 and never 12:1. Again I thought I had 4 triples.

Now it's 6:1 and 24:1...... We will see how long this last and if I like it.

becket5.thumb.jpg.aeca5178048d62db4cd30deaca9b78ef.jpg

 

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My 2 cents, you will rip that cleat and the double fiddle block right off the lower triple as rigged. The cleat bracket is held to the blocks with plastic pins that are compressed with 1 or 2 fasteners. Ask me how I know this....

 

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On 9/19/2019 at 7:55 PM, samc99us said:

My 2 cents, you will rip that cleat and the double fiddle block right off the lower triple as rigged. The cleat bracket is held to the blocks with plastic pins that are compressed with 1 or 2 fasteners. Ask me how I know this....

 

You may be right but gonna give it a go. 

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