Jump to content

Sailcloth Choices


Cincy020

Recommended Posts

I am getting quotes on a new headsail and have talked with numerous lofts and have been given numerous different choices on sailcloth.  I have tried to search the forums and Google searches as much as I can and just end up more confused than when I started. The sail is a #2 headsail on a Catalina 25TM. I only sail on inland lakes and have been searching for a cruising sail that I can use for beer can races as well.  I want a durable sail that will retain shape over a longer period of time.  I'm far from any loft (closest is 4 hours away) so I'm not sure how much weight I should give to the service a "local" loft would provide. Here are the quotes I have gotten:

- Quantum - Challenge Marblehead ($1,484)

- Doyle - Challenge High Modulous ($1,298)

- Ullman - Dimension-Polyant AP Low Aspect ($1,089)

- Precision - Marblehead ($1,261), High Modulous ($808), Contender Supercruise ($917)

- Rolly Takser - Challenge Performance Cruise ($610)

I have gotten quotes from the cheapest and some of the more expensive guys. Is it worth paying almost double to get the best cloth from one of the bigger lofts, or do I pay the least amount for the lowest quality cloth from a asian loft?  The cost isn't a huge factor for me, but I'd rather not pay for the absolute best cloth if I don't need it.

Right now, I'm thinking Doyle because they will actually build the sail to my specs (not factory specs) and is cheaper than Quantum although a lower quality cloth. I have read some negative comments about the construction quality of Precision sails, so I am questionable to go with them even though they have a lower price.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Go back to the Precision loft and ask for fibercon instead of supercruise.  Should cost about 20% more, but will hold its shape longer in a #2.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cincy020 said:

Thanks, I looked at the quote from Precision and they quoted $1,261 for fibercon (same quote as Marblehead). Have you had good experiences with Precision?

No, I make my own sails, I just use Contender sailcloth and know that fibercon will outlast supercruise and hold shape better.  If you want to know how well a sailmaker does walk through the marina and check for the sailmaker's logo on sails, then ask the owners (and look at the stitching).  Most use the same software for making the sails, so the shapes are awfully similar...what you want to know is who is being used by other folks in your area.  You also need to know what wind range you would normally use the #2 in a beer can race and ask for the correct camber for that wind and your boat (how many people on board, as well as that affects the heel).  The reason you might want a local loft is that if it doesn't fit, you can have them fix it.  You might want to "verify" your actual lengths for your existing #2 (assuming it fits right).  On the sail, luff, foot and leach; on the boat forestay hoist maximum, sheeting point distance from CL, Length from tack to sheeting point and how much adjustment is left (fore/aft) on your tracks.  Also, look up and see the distance you have with your existing #2 from the spreader to the sail (assuming it fits right and there's no interference).  Otherwise, let them come measure it on your boat.  Sailmaking isn't that hard to do, but each boat has quirks and you can't imagine how much difference a quarter inch too much cloth makes if it is in the wrong spot.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sailmaker of 40 years

The Ullman option in DP looks the best value! Nice cloth! 

The performance cruise (ugh) and super cruise are budget cloths, the Marblehead and DP LA are good top end and the high modulus in the middle ( as the price suggests) 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had good results with Doyle. Not familiar with the cloths you mentioned; they built mine with DP Flex24 which is no longer available, but there is a close substitute, Flex Ultra. Multithom is giving you excellent advice, particularly about the wisdom of using a local loft and the need for careful measurement. Doyle is a 30 minute drive from my house which was a factor in selecting them; they were very good about my inputs for battens, hardware, and design (for a wing masted trimaran). Excellent workmanship and service.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2019 at 5:45 PM, MultiThom said:

No, I make my own sails, I just use Contender sailcloth and know that fibercon will outlast supercruise and hold shape better.  If you want to know how well a sailmaker does walk through the marina and check for the sailmaker's logo on sails, then ask the owners (and look at the stitching).  Most use the same software for making the sails, so the shapes are awfully similar...what you want to know is who is being used by other folks in your area.  You also need to know what wind range you would normally use the #2 in a beer can race and ask for the correct camber for that wind and your boat (how many people on board, as well as that affects the heel).  The reason you might want a local loft is that if it doesn't fit, you can have them fix it.  You might want to "verify" your actual lengths for your existing #2 (assuming it fits right).  On the sail, luff, foot and leach; on the boat forestay hoist maximum, sheeting point distance from CL, Length from tack to sheeting point and how much adjustment is left (fore/aft) on your tracks.  Also, look up and see the distance you have with your existing #2 from the spreader to the sail (assuming it fits right and there's no interference).  Otherwise, let them come measure it on your boat.  Sailmaking isn't that hard to do, but each boat has quirks and you can't imagine how much difference a quarter inch too much cloth makes if it is in the wrong spot.

 

Thanks, this is good info to know. Regarding local knowledge, I have had some good feedback from my local club on a couple of lofts I have spoken too and these are the same lofts that have requested I take most/all of the measurements you have recommended. Of the lofts I mentioned, Doyle, Quantum, and Ullman are ones who have indicated they would want these measurements and are also reasonably close to me.  The other lofts are straight off the shelf sails.

 

On 9/16/2019 at 6:51 PM, OCS said:

Sailmaker of 40 years

The Ullman option in DP looks the best value! Nice cloth! 

The performance cruise (ugh) and super cruise are budget cloths, the Marblehead and DP LA are good top end and the high modulus in the middle ( as the price suggests) 

 

Helpful as well. I have found it difficult outside of price to really compare cloths from different manufacturers between budget, middle, best.  

 

I'm leaning towards Doyle or Ullman at this point. Doyle is the closest loft to me and comes highly recommended from others on my lake (and appears to have a relatively good price/value).  I requested a new quote from Ullman have a few more options with cloth/size and will see what they come back with.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2019 at 3:51 PM, OCS said:

Sailmaker of 40 years

The Ullman option in DP looks the best value! Nice cloth! 

The performance cruise (ugh) and super cruise are budget cloths, the Marblehead and DP LA are good top end and the high modulus in the middle ( as the price suggests) 

 

Sailmaker of 25 years not affiliated with any of your options and agree the ullman looks like best value by a fair bit

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

I just ordered a 135 furler head sail for a cape dory typhoon from Precision....after the sales guy took my order they turned it over to a designer and he spent at least 30 minutes with me talking about how I use the sailboat, water condtions etc....I was kind of shocked for a $550 sail....two yrs ago I spend over 5k with rolly tasker and I never got by the sales guy....

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/5/2019 at 1:01 PM, shavdog said:

I just ordered a 135 furler head sail for a cape dory typhoon from Precision....after the sales guy took my order they turned it over to a designer and he spent at least 30 minutes with me talking about how I use the sailboat, water condtions etc....I was kind of shocked for a $550 sail....two yrs ago I spend over 5k with rolly tasker and I never got by the sales guy....

Ditto on the Precision order, Genoa ZZP09, excited/nervous to see how the sail looks. Hoping to be pleasantly surprised. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been disappointed by quantum.  I asked them to make a slightly larger than #2 for a J120 than was a bit longer on the foot and a couple feet short on the hoist.  Reason being that the J120 has wide top spreader especially and a fairly wide shroud base so we wanted to be able to sheet it with a tighter angle.  Another J120 in our fleet had a sail made just like I described and it was higher and faster upwind with the breeze in the upper teens to low 20s.

So after specific instructions to Quantum, they made a stock full hoist number 2 anyway right before an ocean race so we were stuck with it.  Then it was up for about 15 minutes and it blew apart.  They ended up replacing it but that didn't help 100 miles offshore.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also a sailmaker, based in Asia. 

AP Blade from Ullmen is the best value for money compared to the others. AP Blade is more expensive than Marblehead. Did they make a mistake on the price! 

Wouldn't touch the performance cruise even if they gave it away. Supercruise is durable but not great shape holding from what I have seen. 

We're using mostly DP and Fibercon wovens.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...