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17 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

You need to get out more. There are a lot of fantastically fun boats with wheels.

no doubt - but they aren't the same. apples and oranges. have you ever pumped a wheel to catch a wave on a quartering sea?

a tiller provides more feedback they say, but does a wheel provide any feedback - I would say zero. So, if the issue is pure joy of sailing..its hardly a contest.

if none of this makes sense, then here is an actual example: racing down the coast on a 36 footer the steering cables parted, so on with the emergency tiller. The fucking boat now comes alive - pump that stubby thing as the stern lifts up and get that bow pointing downhill. catch the wave - instead of losing flow on the rudder, and also just breaking the damn thing..

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Something must be wrong with me.  I don't really "lust." I rarely lust after other homes. Other locations? Occasionally, but only a tiny bit.  My home and property are great. Visitors often tell

Ummm, I don't suppose you've noticed that this is CRUISING anarchy? It involves the pure joy of cruising with furniture. I'm 65 and sail a 48', 30,000#, wooden sailboat with my 64 year old wife. The w

Ted Hood always seem to manage to steal my heart.  First the Little Harbor series and now this: https://www.lymanmorse.com/sailing_yacht/hood-lyman-morse-60-windwalker-ii/

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There's no doubt a tiller gives better feel.  But a well designed and maintained wheel should give 80-90% of the feel from a tiller..

So yes, pumped a wheel plenty of times to catch a wave on a quartering sea...

And OBTW, tillers break from lack of proper maintenance and replacement too.  Have had 2 tiller steered boats have steering failures.  On one, it was the tiller itself that broke (from rot around where the tiller was bolted to the rudder head flanges) and one where the key on the ruddershaft failed.  

So any gear that is not maintained can fail.  That's not just a wheel steered boat issue.

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I'll agree, but say 35 feet.  J/109 works just fine with a wheel. Bene First 36.7 works just fine with a wheel.   My current ride, a Bene First 310 is OK with a wheel, but a tiller would be soo much better.

All my other boats had tillers (J-24, Santana 30/30, Bene First 30E, S2 9.1).  I like tillers.  But a well done wheel, on a larger boat is ok too.

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22 hours ago, Crash said:

There's no doubt a tiller gives better feel.  But a well designed and maintained wheel should give 80-90% of the feel from a tiller..

I've sailed a number of boats with wheels of various types and none of them came remotely close to the feel of a tiller.

They were all way too light - like driving a car with overboosted power steering.

Then there's hydraulic wheels - completely numb.

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On 1/10/2020 at 4:18 PM, Bull City said:

It looks like he got to the stern, ran out of ideas or got tired, and handed the pencil to somebody else. The flat sheer and low deckhouse with the tiny ports doesn't look good to me, and I think  it makes for a dark interior.

Looking at the photo gallery, I am also not a fan of the offset you-know-what, or the upside down furler, or the bulkhead-mounted commode, and I would like to know who picked out the dreadful floral fabric for the cushions. Probably someone who works in a mattress factory.

chance.thumb.png.3bf9d335e343a4195cc4b2538d9aee31.png

In his defense, the era in which he designed the most production boats coincided with the IOR demanding a pinched stern. 

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12 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Not many modest sized ones though.

Nothing wrecks a decent cockpit more than a pedestal with wheel on a yacht under 40ft.

Right, nothing makes a great cockpit like having the sweep of the tiller interfere with everyone's footroom.

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18 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I've sailed a number of boats with wheels of various types and none of them came remotely close to the feel of a tiller.

They were all way too light - like driving a car with overboosted power steering.

Then there's hydraulic wheels - completely numb.

Maybe we need to arrange a CA wheel vs tiller test day!  Need to line up a couple of matching J-35s.  One with a wheel, and one with a tiller, and about a dozen or so of us opinionated bastards to be the helmsman....then some fish scales to determine amount of force to maintain course.  Some crew for each boat.  Then a big spreadsheet to come up with a couple dozen combinations and permutations of conditions and sail trim...

Then we'll have the answer for one boat anyway :rolleyes:

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11 hours ago, Crash said:

My current ride, a Bene First 310 is OK with a wheel, but a tiller would be soo much better.

so, why not change that?

seems like a straightforward transition. heaven knows I have a few higher priority projects going on - am currently spending money trying to rescue an Etap 30 - but getting the pedestal off the floor seems rather worthwhile..

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On 1/14/2020 at 10:08 AM, floater said:

no doubt - but they aren't the same. apples and oranges. have you ever pumped a wheel to catch a wave on a quartering sea?

a tiller provides more feedback they say, but does a wheel provide any feedback - I would say zero. So, if the issue is pure joy of sailing..its hardly a contest.

if none of this makes sense, then here is an actual example: racing down the coast on a 36 footer the steering cables parted, so on with the emergency tiller. The fucking boat now comes alive - pump that stubby thing as the stern lifts up and get that bow pointing downhill. catch the wave - instead of losing flow on the rudder, and also just breaking the damn thing..

Ummm, I don't suppose you've noticed that this is CRUISING anarchy? It involves the pure joy of cruising with furniture. I'm 65 and sail a 48', 30,000#, wooden sailboat with my 64 year old wife. The wheel on that boat is a sensuous joy, beautifully balanced, with a touch and feel that must be experienced to be believed. 74' carbon mast, 3Di sails, 6' carbon spade rudder, 8' fin keel with a bulb. A tiller would ruin the boat and add nothing.

DSC_1877.thumb.jpg.33363d592008787e8932dc42ac56625f.jpg

We have a tiller on our sailing dinghy.

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40 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

Right, nothing makes a great cockpit like having the sweep of the tiller interfere with everyone's footroom.

Each to his own but in my experience the tiller sweep arc does not disable a cockpit on a modest sized yacht as much as a wheel.

At anchor we just remove the tiller and insert a block to lock the rudder.and some do hinge.

05F0A2A3-BED8-45D8-8D5B-67995DB62F25.jpeg.9490815d58e5c9f6460bc47d02f9bca3.jpeg79EAEB88-4EB0-4DC6-8375-0104079A7290.jpeg.a0e876ca556dc59c2d0687dbf937a16d.jpeg

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29 minutes ago, floater said:

so, why not change that?

seems like a straightforward transition. heaven knows I have a few higher priority projects going on - am currently spending money trying to rescue an Etap 30 - but getting the pedestal off the floor seems rather worthwhile..

I've thought about it...all of the 310's in Europe were built with a tiller and traveller on the bridgedeck (i.e. endboom sheeting).  All of the boats in the US were built with a wheel and traveller up on the cabintop (midboom sheeting) .  And a hot water heater located in the aft end of the cockpit locker.  From a racing standpoint, I'd love to get the weight out of the stern, and have the feel of a tiller.  But this is not my final/dream boat, it's the boat for the next 6 years or so, until the youngest goes off to college, and we move away from SoCal.  So I'm not sure from a resale value here in the states that it makes any sense to convert to a tiller.  Unfortunately.  If I could convince myself that it wouldn't cost me/make the boat harder to sell, I would likely do it...

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1 minute ago, Crash said:

.. I'm not sure from a resale value here in the states that it makes any sense to convert to a tiller.

ouch. as a Californian, ouch I say. and surely a slur upon our sailing populace? ;) 

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7 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Each to his own but in my experience the tiller sweep arc does not disable a cockpit on a modest sized yacht as much as a wheel.

At anchor we just remove the tiller and insert a block to lock the rudder.and some do hinge.

05F0A2A3-BED8-45D8-8D5B-67995DB62F25.jpeg.9490815d58e5c9f6460bc47d02f9bca3.jpeg79EAEB88-4EB0-4DC6-8375-0104079A7290.jpeg.a0e876ca556dc59c2d0687dbf937a16d.jpeg

2E099523-9137-4022-ACFC-6E7B67D89708.jpeg

5B1CD4E5-F747-47CC-BDFE-6422C3375551.jpeg

wow. now that's commitment. hat's off.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Each to his own but in my experience the tiller sweep arc does not disable a cockpit on a modest sized yacht as much as a wheel.

At anchor we just remove the tiller and insert a block to lock the rudder.and some do hinge.

 

 

 

I was thinking of one like the Pearson 30, below. 

A lot of European boats, like the Dufours of old, have very short tillers. A long tiller gives both better mechanical advantage and makes it easier to make a small adjustment. 

2020-01-15_1440.png

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Okay, you guys lusting after tillers need to get a room...

 

How about this beauty?  She looks so nicely kept.  Trying to figure out why she's half the price of another located further south?

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/hinckley-ch-marine-bermuda-40-mk-iii--2780979/

image.png.833cf4c45b5aa6a0095a647a7c7d8d40.png

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29 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I will say, however, it makes electronic autopilot options way easier/mechanically simple and cheaper.

actually, I was wondering if I could hook a below deck autopilot up to the quadrant - were I to remove the wheel. then the magical tiller would dance around on its own.

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4 minutes ago, floater said:

actually, I was wondering if I could hook a below deck autopilot up to the quadrant - were I to remove the wheel. then the magical tiller would dance around on its own.

I also used to wonder...but never got around to it, what with 1000 other things to do.  Seemed to me that without an easy way to disconnect it (in my case), having it always hooked up couldn’t be good for the ram/tiller actuator.  But it would keep that part (actuator) 100% out of the weather.  (I simply sewed a full sunbrella cover/sleeve for mine (Pelagic) ).

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9 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

Okay, you guys lusting after tillers need to get a room...

 

How about this beauty?  She looks so nicely kept.  Trying to figure out why she's half the price of another located further south?

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/hinckley-ch-marine-bermuda-40-mk-iii--2780979/

image.png.833cf4c45b5aa6a0095a647a7c7d8d40.png

Zero upgrades. Nice original condition but she needs lots of updating to be used as anything other than a daysailer. New windlass, new roller furling, new sails, new electronics.....tens of boat bucks to make her a comfortable cruiser. I do love a Hinckley....

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On 1/14/2020 at 11:08 AM, floater said:

no doubt - but they aren't the same. apples and oranges. have you ever pumped a wheel to catch a wave on a quartering sea?

a tiller provides more feedback they say, but does a wheel provide any feedback - I would say zero. So, if the issue is pure joy of sailing..its hardly a contest.

if none of this makes sense, then here is an actual example: racing down the coast on a 36 footer the steering cables parted, so on with the emergency tiller. The fucking boat now comes alive - pump that stubby thing as the stern lifts up and get that bow pointing downhill. catch the wave - instead of losing flow on the rudder, and also just breaking the damn thing..

Very much so! My wheel steering provides excellent feel and feedback. Before I had an autopilot I used the tiller on rainy days to get under the dodger and can't say the boat steered any better or that the feel was any different. If anything,  still having the wheel connected damped the feel a bit since there were now two things moving instead of one.

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8 hours ago, Orion Jim said:

Zero upgrades. Nice original condition but she needs lots of updating to be used as anything other than a daysailer. New windlass, new roller furling, new sails, new electronics.....tens of boat bucks to make her a comfortable cruiser. I do love a Hinckley....

Why replace gear if its working fine???

I agree it's probably due for some sails and the newest are 15 years old now, but why replace a windlass, roller furling, and electronics if they all work well?  Its got radar, gps nav and autopilot, speed, depth, wind direction and speed.  What more is needed?  Hell that's alot more than I had on my first  Bermuda Races...we still got there safely.

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14 minutes ago, Crash said:

Why replace gear if its working fine???

I agree it's probably due for some sails and the newest are 15 years old now, but why replace a windlass, roller furling, and electronics if they all work well?  Its got radar, gps nav and autopilot, speed, depth, wind direction and speed.  What more is needed?  Hell that's alot more than I had on my first  Bermuda Races...we still got there safely.

A 100 year old windlass should still work, that tech hasn't changed!

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I'd argue the B40 in North Carolina is the outlier, not the one you posted.  The dinette layout and offset queen in the North Carolina boat are likely more desirable to most buyers in 2020 than transom and pilot berths and a V-berth forward.  Also the satin/gloss varnished mahogany interior is "prettier" and would hope to command a higher price, than the more traditional Bristol-finish interior.  But $130k is closer to market for a B40 than $250k judging by the others currently on the market.

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On 1/14/2020 at 11:08 AM, floater said:

no doubt - but they aren't the same. apples and oranges. have you ever pumped a wheel to catch a wave on a quartering sea?

a tiller provides more feedback they say, but does a wheel provide any feedback - I would say zero. So, if the issue is pure joy of sailing..its hardly a contest.

if none of this makes sense, then here is an actual example: racing down the coast on a 36 footer the steering cables parted, so on with the emergency tiller. The fucking boat now comes alive - pump that stubby thing as the stern lifts up and get that bow pointing downhill. catch the wave - instead of losing flow on the rudder, and also just breaking the damn thing..

Dunno.  I have driven many a boat down many a (large) wave and found the boat alive beneath my feet.   Never hankered for a tiller.  Ever.  Even on a 70,000 lb 60' Abeking and Rasmussen I could find the sweet spots.  Perhaps its the helmsman.   On the A & R it quickly became apparent who could and could not steer in 50 knot winds and a quartering seas. 100 miles north of BMD. 

Remove the wheel at rest and the cockpit is wonderfully clear. 

But yea...some cockpit designs lend themselves better to tillers, but anything over 35'...I like the civility of the wheel. 

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37 minutes ago, ChrisJD said:

I'd argue the B40 in North Carolina is the outlier, not the one you posted.  The dinette layout and offset queen in the North Carolina boat are likely more desirable to most buyers in 2020 than transom and pilot berths and a V-berth forward.  Also the satin/gloss varnished mahogany interior is "prettier" and would hope to command a higher price, than the more traditional Bristol-finish interior.  But $130k is closer to market for a B40 than $250k judging by the others currently on the market.

Most buyers in 2020 are looking at some big-assed Beneteau,Jeanneau, Dufour etc Dockside floating condo.  Its a more discriminating buyer who is shopping B-40s, and personally I find the more traditional look of settee and pilot berths with the bristol finish much more appealing. And I hate dinettes and "Streisand chairs."   Both are utterly useless at sea.  But different strokes for different folks.

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3 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Very much so! My wheel steering provides excellent feel and feedback. Before I had an autopilot I used the tiller on rainy days to get under the dodger and can't say the boat steered any better or that the feel was any different. If anything,  still having the wheel connected damped the feel a bit since there were now two things moving instead of one.

not that I don't believe you - for sure the finest and best sailed yachts in the world use wheels. it would seem that over a certain size a tiller just can't work. And on some boats they probably would just plain suck (ever been aboard the Nina, Pinta, or Santa Maria?). And the feel of a tiller on a full-keeler I personally find kind of unpleasant - apologies all around. 

However, consider the linkages involved in a wheel. And the lever arms*. Then think about a tiller.

I suppose it is possible to get some feedback on a wheel - so I'll recant my previous statement that a wheel has 'zero feedback'. But this topic was broached when discussing the purity and (perhaps atavistic) pleasure of sailing. Not pragmatism. And I'll agree that over a certain size threshold the argument just don't stick.

*question for the engineers out there: The lever arms of a wheel include the radius of the wheel 'and' the radius of the quadrant. But how to properly quantify this relationship - simple addition - or multiplication? ..think I know the answer, but have failed to explain it definitively. 

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

I find the more traditional look of settee and pilot berths with the bristol finish much more appealing.

and this boat seems to have been kept exceptionally well, along with being tastefully decorated in a minimalist fashion.  I do like the bar locker.

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50 minutes ago, floater said:

not that I don't believe you - for sure the finest and best sailed yachts in the world use wheels. it would seem that over a certain size a tiller just can't work. And on some boats they probably would just plain suck (ever been aboard the Nina, Pinta, or Santa Maria?). And the feel of a tiller on a full-keeler I personally find kind of unpleasant - apologies all around. 

However, consider the linkages involved in a wheel. And the lever arms*. Then think about a tiller.

I suppose it is possible to get some feedback on a wheel - so I'll recant my previous statement that a wheel has 'zero feedback'. But this topic was broached when discussing the purity and (perhaps atavistic) pleasure of sailing. Not pragmatism. And I'll agree that over a certain size threshold the argument just don't stick.

*question for the engineers out there: The lever arms of a wheel include the radius of the wheel 'and' the radius of the quadrant. But how to properly quantify this relationship - simple addition - or multiplication? ..think I know the answer, but have failed to explain it definitively. 

???

I am missing something here. My wheel provides EXCELLENT feedback. I can feel the tiniest burbles and turbulence on the rudder. The mechanical advantage is where it needs to be, any less and the boat would be unsteerable at high speeds. Going down the face of a 20+ foot wave it takes both hands to hold course. Have you only ever steered boats with hydraulic steering or worm gear? Those have no feedback at all.

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4 hours ago, Crash said:

Why replace gear if its working fine???

I agree it's probably due for some sails and the newest are 15 years old now, but why replace a windlass, roller furling, and electronics if they all work well?  Its got radar, gps nav and autopilot, speed, depth, wind direction and speed.  What more is needed?  Hell that's alot more than I had on my first  Bermuda Races...we still got there safely.

The windlass has no chain gypsy....useless to anyone other than a daysailer, the roller furling is a 34 year old Hood Seafurl unit which I have experience with....the modern units are MUCH easier to operate and dependable, the electronics are antiquated....the latest are light years ahead in dependability and user friendly intuitive features. Once again it’s all fine and dandy unless the new owner expects to put this admittedly fine vessel to use as more than a daysailer. It’s all personal choice....I see updates and upgrades as a compliment to a fine vessel.

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1 hour ago, Orion Jim said:

The windlass has no chain gypsy....useless to anyone other than a daysailer, the roller furling is a 34 year old Hood Seafurl unit which I have experience with....the modern units are MUCH easier to operate and dependable, the electronics are antiquated....the latest are light years ahead in dependability and user friendly intuitive features. Once again it’s all fine and dandy unless the new owner expects to put this admittedly fine vessel to use as more than a daysailer. It’s all personal choice....I see updates and upgrades as a compliment to a fine vessel.

Ummm, the boat has 8' of chain in it's rode. The rest is rope. Unless you switch to all chain, which is not necessary, you don't need a chain gypsy.

I had one boatlength of chain on my SW-42 and NEVER once thought all chain would be an improvement.

The chart plotter is recent enough. Most people can carry charts in their phones or iPads.

For cruising what you really need is a robust belowdeck autopilot. 

Most boats do, in fact, pretty much just daysail. If someone bought that boat in southern NE and planned to keep it there, presuming all of the stuff works, I would suggest sailing her for a season before making any changes. 

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1 hour ago, floater said:

imagination is not to be underestimated.

"This steering sucks, I have no idea what the boat is doing"

Not a common complaint among C&C owners :rolleyes: The idea you can't pump off a wave - :lol::lol: - can't count how many times I have done THAT :D

The biggest issue I ever had with n00bs wasn't that they couldn't get the boat to turn, more like they were used to an Out Island 41 or something and thought they needed a full turn to change course when all they really needed was a couple of spokes.

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Until about 3 days ago I'd never even heard of this boat or designer   Slaabby Larsen Vampire 24

Sailing-boatSlaaby-Larsen-Vampire-24-Ska

Now I can't get it out of my head. This one is selling for about $15K USD. If it wasn't in Denmark I'd have bought it by now.

https://scanboat.com/en/boats/details/Sejlbaad-slaaby-larsen-vampire-24-skal-saelges-nu-17185368

There are a few others on the market over there as well, maybe I need a little Euro holiday.

https://www.dba.dk/slaaby-larsen-yawl-paa-35-fo/id-1054479003/?marketing_referrer=guide&marketing_article=Nu+kan+dette+flydende+sommerhus+blive+dit…+hvis+du+altså+har+råd&marketing_category=Sjov

https://www.dba.dk/slaaby-larsen-yawl-paa-35-fo/id-1054479003/billeder/5/ 

  https://www.dba.dk/slaaby-larsen-yawl-paa-35-fo/id-1054479003/billeder/4/

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4 hours ago, Willin' said:

Until about 3 days ago I'd never even heard of this boat or designer   Slaabby Larsen Vampire 24

Sailing-boatSlaaby-Larsen-Vampire-24-Ska

Now I can't get it out of my head. This one is selling for about $15K USD. If it wasn't in Denmark I'd have bought it by now.

https://scanboat.com/en/boats/details/Sejlbaad-slaaby-larsen-vampire-24-skal-saelges-nu-17185368

There are a few others on the market over there as well, maybe I need a little Euro holiday.

https://www.dba.dk/slaaby-larsen-yawl-paa-35-fo/id-1054479003/?marketing_referrer=guide&marketing_article=Nu+kan+dette+flydende+sommerhus+blive+dit…+hvis+du+altså+har+råd&marketing_category=Sjov

https://www.dba.dk/slaaby-larsen-yawl-paa-35-fo/id-1054479003/billeder/5/ 

  https://www.dba.dk/slaaby-larsen-yawl-paa-35-fo/id-1054479003/billeder/4/

I can see why it's called a Vampire.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Why?

Because it would bleed you white?

Oh, I dunno. I painted and varnished everything each spring on my old boat. The only difference would be I used Rustoleum paint at about $12/ qt on the topsides. Varnish would be double that. 

My hands are aching from even considering this!

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While on the subject of Hinckleys

My favorite part of the listing:

CHIMERA was sold by the original owner in January 2019 where she underwent an extensive $300,000 (9) month refit by Hinckley.  Shortly after, she was shipped to the West Coast and arrived in November 2019.  After enjoying her for a short time, CHIMERA is now available for sale and remains in the care of her full-time Professional Captain.”

I suspect Yachtworld may not have been the only type of lust involved, but maybe the rich really are that different and the owner just got bored.

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On 1/16/2020 at 11:43 AM, SloopJonB said:

Probably true but that's a pretty big size.

image.png.f3bf4406cda2f10563ba424fa71d73a8.png

The tiller on the Lady Washington is, as I recall, about 11 feet long. Don't know about "feel", but it could push you across the deck pretty good. 

 

Steering LW.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Oceanconcepts said:

The tiller on the Lady Washington is, as I recall, about 11 feet long. Don't know about "feel", but it could push you across the deck pretty good. 

 

Steering LW.jpg

well, that'll teach you to balance the sails

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On 1/26/2020 at 4:52 PM, monsoon said:

well, that'll teach you to balance the sails

Doesn't show in the photo, but there would have been a couple of large square sails further up the mainmast. Sail balance was clearly critical, as the rudder had limited influence.  Hip + a hand on the tackle seemed to be the best method of managing the tiller. They had to add a wheel for the "Pirates" movies, but a tiller was the original steering method. 

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8 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

Sandals don't look like proper footgear for that vessel.

Watch out, someone will post a pic of a lovely lass in crocs on a sailing ship....

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On 1/26/2020 at 4:47 PM, Oceanconcepts said:

The tiller on the Lady Washington is, as I recall, about 11 feet long. Don't know about "feel", but it could push you across the deck pretty good. 

 

Steering LW.jpg

the Lady might win. But this guy has a say as well.. @ 11:30 (he's definitely a tiller man).

 

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I removed the wheel and pedestal from  my cutter and laminated a recurved 6’ teak tiller. It frees up a lot of room in the cockpit and has the gear driven autohelm4000 belowdecks tied into the quadrant. Tiller flips up out of the way when not sailing. Not missing the pedestal.

I also restored a Pearson Vanguard a few years back that had a bad cockpit core issue. Removed the helm and installed a tiller on that one as well.

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40 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I removed the wheel and pedestal from  my cutter and laminated a recurved 6’ teak tiller. It frees up a lot of room in the cockpit and has the gear driven autohelm4000 belowdecks tied into the quadrant. Tiller flips up out of the way when not sailing. Not missing the pedestal.

can you conveniently hook/unhook the autohelm from the quadrant when not using it?

also. a six foot tiller? this might just be getting out of hand.. :)

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Sorry, I meant 5’. The tiller swings in an arc behind the aft winch bases and leaves 7’ of open cockpit forward and including the bridge deck.  The gear driven auto helm is attached to a geared quadrant and does not attach. When not using the autopilot, the gear is free to rotate the few degrees needed to steer. The old pedestal helm had a standard cable driven Quadrant just below it. 

Thanks to Peter Slack for the photograph. It was blowing about 5knots and the main is 91/2 oz Dacron blend cruising main so I couldn’t hide the wrinkles 

17C29BC4-22B3-456A-9AE4-00D4C2F146C9.jpeg

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Gorgeous but around here a self bailing cockpit is essential unless you're dry sailing it.

A few years ago someone tried to keep a Soling or Tempest on a mooring in Tiddly Cove near me.

It had a good sized boom tent giving good coverage to the cockpit but still sank 3 times in one winter.

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3 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Lust shouldn't be practical, it shouldn't make sense - it just should be. I have lusted after one of these as a last boat ever, from age 75 onward.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2013/c-w-hood-32-daysailer-3552743/

 

Screen_Shot_2020-01-29_at_6_14.30_PM.thumb.png.f93ef0df4105b904e0c6b59a062980eb.png1152344064_ScreenShot2020-01-29at6_12_01PM.thumb.png.152f650451059ef130f4894e5c739afd.png

Certainly tics the the lust box.  I'm thinking about a 50% larger version...

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Just now, Veeger said:

Certainly tics the the lust box.  I'm thinking about a 50% larger version...

I can't afford this one and one reason for having one would be to singlehand as I approach 80. This is big enough. Not sure what colour I want, perhaps not blue.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Gorgeous but around here a self bailing cockpit is essential unless you're dry sailing it.

A few years ago someone tried to keep a Soling or Tempest on a mooring in Tiddly Cove near me.

It had a good sized boom tent giving good coverage to the cockpit but still sank 3 times in one winter.

Then you are in luck, "Large, comfortable self-bailing cockpit seats 8"...

Although under full specs is says " comfortable seating for 6 " and doesn't mention self bailing

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8 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Then you are in luck, "Large, comfortable self-bailing cockpit seats 8"...

Although under full specs is says " comfortable seating for 6 " and doesn't mention self bailing

Cockpit has a sump with a bilge pump specific to the cockpit.  (note: keep the battery charged...)  Admiral needs an enclosed head.  Boat boy requires a decent dodger.  Afterguard needs some ultraviolet protection....

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24 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Then you are in luck, "Large, comfortable self-bailing cockpit seats 8"...

I call BS on that - you can see in those pics that the cockpit sole is, at best, at the level of the W/L.

That thing wouldn't self bail any sort of rain storm around here.

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Gorgeous but around here a self bailing cockpit is essential unless you're dry sailing it.

A few years ago someone tried to keep a Soling or Tempest on a mooring in Tiddly Cove near me.

It had a good sized boom tent giving good coverage to the cockpit but still sank 3 times in one winter.

That’s quite the idea, putting a boat like that in a S or E facing bay around here!

My friend, a very experienced sailor (dinghy and ocean), put his Coronado 15 in an E facing bay near us...didn’t end well.  And it was only October.  (Fortunately only turtled, didn’t sink.). I keep telling him to rig up some kind is simple ama for use at the mooring, for greater stability. 

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3 hours ago, Veeger said:

Cockpit has a sump with a bilge pump specific to the cockpit.  (note: keep the battery charged...)  Admiral needs an enclosed head.  Boat boy requires a decent dodger.  Afterguard needs some ultraviolet protection....

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2016/s-s-sparkman-stephens-daysailor-babe-30-2642668/
62AA970C-689D-49B7-8D5B-7ABC15EF3267.jpeg.ae89330f29c2381de6a251f8a1167d6b.jpeg

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9 hours ago, Veeger said:

Cockpit has a sump with a bilge pump specific to the cockpit.  (note: keep the battery charged...)  Admiral needs an enclosed head.  Boat boy requires a decent dodger.  Afterguard needs some ultraviolet protection....

That would explain the photo of the tented cockpit in the listing.

A friend's boat had an open cockpit with a bilge pump. A fault in the solar panel wiring combined with a particularly rainy summer when they were out of town more than usual...the upside is they got to do a refit.

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6 hours ago, Priscilla said:

For some reason, I've always considered this design disappointing.  The trim details inside and out leave me unimpressed and the overall design doesn't really provide a 'row away' factor for me.  It's just a miss in a variety of ways.  I wanted it to be a 'possible' when I first saw it but,... nope.  However... the current price of the original is pretty attractive at this point...for someone.  (probably a consequence of all the subtle 'misses'.  I haven't seen too many built)

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13 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Gorgeous but around here a self bailing cockpit is essential unless you're dry sailing it.

A few years ago someone tried to keep a Soling or Tempest on a mooring in Tiddly Cove near me.

It had a good sized boom tent giving good coverage to the cockpit but still sank 3 times in one winter.

Sloopy, we are talking lust here, not practicality. It is not remotely practical to spend north of 100K US on a boat to take a few friends out for a brief sail.

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1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Sloopy, we are talking lust here, not practicality. It is not remotely practical to spend north of 100K US on a boat to take a few friends out for a brief sail.

Nope. Not. Practical. At. All.

.... but an all too common reality!

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On 1/20/2020 at 12:39 PM, Willin' said:

Until about 3 days ago I'd never even heard of this boat or designer   Slaabby Larsen Vampire 24

Sailing-boatSlaaby-Larsen-Vampire-24-Ska

Now I can't get it out of my head. This one is selling for about $15K USD. If it wasn't in Denmark I'd have bought it by now.

https://scanboat.com/en/boats/details/Sejlbaad-slaaby-larsen-vampire-24-skal-saelges-nu-17185368

There are a few others on the market over there as well, maybe I need a little Euro holiday.

https://www.dba.dk/slaaby-larsen-yawl-paa-35-fo/id-1054479003/?marketing_referrer=guide&marketing_article=Nu+kan+dette+flydende+sommerhus+blive+dit…+hvis+du+altså+har+råd&marketing_category=Sjov

https://www.dba.dk/slaaby-larsen-yawl-paa-35-fo/id-1054479003/billeder/5/ 

  https://www.dba.dk/slaaby-larsen-yawl-paa-35-fo/id-1054479003/billeder/4/

Tillers!!

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9 hours ago, Priscilla said:

I agree with Veeger's comments. There's a lot to like about it, but... the look of the deckhouse is not good.

But a question regarding the asymmetric set up. My set-up is similar. Is it a bad idea to leave the furled asymmetric hoisted when sailing to weather? Will it disturb the air flow? I'm thinking of around-the-buoys racing.

Thanks.

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Bull, that's likely a Code Zero on there.  Keeping it up all the time adds windage first and foremost so probably not good for racing. I've also no doubt that there's some disturbance of the jib's effectiveness also.  Besides, in this case, it  just plain detracts from the overall look as well.

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29 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I agree with Veeger's comments. There's a lot to like about it, but... the look of the deckhouse is not good.

I agree.  I actually think a J/100 is more attractive.  

The CW Hood 32 is gorgeous.  $100k for a gorgeous daysailer is, in my opinion, a better use of funds than $100k for a roomier boat with a cabin that's never used.  The cockpit looks really nice, but I'd be worried about powerboat wakes splashing saltwater into my guests' Chablis with that freeboard.  

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Similar to Tartan's "Cruise Control Rig."  As Veegs says, it adds windage and does disturb the flow, esp if trying to point.  On a daysailer, or on a cruising boat, may not be a big deal.  While racing, probably is a bigger deal. 

Also note that a Code Zero will roll up nicely, where as your asym on a furler will not roll up nearly that well.  Top down furling of an asym is to ease setting and dousing, not to furl and then carry hoisted.  Besides the Asym for Tonic isn't really that big, and ought to comedown pretty easily with the right technique.  Bear down a bit, stretch the foot, grab at the middle of the foot, blow the haylard enough to depower sail, then tail halyard to keep from shrimping.  chute comes down into companionway.  2 man job at most.  Or rig a permanent retrieval line.  Lead retrieval line to leeward of headstay, and above/clear of pulpit and back to foredeck hatch.  guy in hatch takes all slack out of retrieval line.  Blow sheet completely to depower chute.  Blow tack line.  Take on retrieval line/Ease halyard as tack of chute comes to foredeck hatch, then tail haylard to control rate of descent.  More lines to declutter after takedown then stretch and blow method, but easier to control/more conservative.

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3 hours ago, Veeger said:

For some reason, I've always considered this design disappointing.  The trim details inside and out leave me unimpressed and the overall design doesn't really provide a 'row away' factor for me.  It's just a miss in a variety of ways.  I wanted it to be a 'possible' when I first saw it but,... nope.  However... the current price of the original is pretty attractive at this point...for someone.  (probably a consequence of all the subtle 'misses'.  I haven't seen too many built)

To me, the S&S 30 seems like more of a compromise between the who-cares interior of a J/boat and a boat to actually cruise in. Sort of a delivery crew interior:not actually comfortable,  but not really uncomfortable.  Pretty much devoid of trim, and looks as good as it does in pictures because it doesn't have lifelines.

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On 1/20/2020 at 12:39 PM, Willin' said:

Until about 3 days ago I'd never even heard of this boat or designer   Slaabby Larsen Vampire 24

 

Slaabby Larsen or even Slaabby Larsen Vampire...I don't know why I have an overwhelming sense that should be the name of a character in The Hitchicker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Maybe I'm thinking of Slartibartfast and after all he was an architect of sorts...who favoured fjords.

 

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50 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Buy a Soling or Tempest or similar for a few grand and hire someone like Tim Lackey to put some teak on it.

Spend the remaining $70 or $80 grand on something else.

image.thumb.png.f74f454a6ed3c0fe9e89f46e113b4397.png

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F04004D4-5704-4C17-B968-D015C0B66072.jpeg.dee7b9598b46abcfe5cf66e614b072e1.jpeg

This is the one day sailor that I’ve lusted after to the point of wanting to throw away all things rational. There was one on the market about a year ago but seems to have been sold(I think for around 130k).

https://www.maxidolphin.it/en/

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/maxi-dolphin-33-md33

 

 

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55 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Buy a Soling or Tempest or similar for a few grand and hire someone like Tim Lackey to put some teak on it.

Spend the remaining $70 or $80 grand on something else.

image.thumb.png.f74f454a6ed3c0fe9e89f46e113b4397.png

exactly

 

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3 hours ago, KC375 said:

Slaabby Larsen or even Slaabby Larsen Vampire...I don't know why I have an overwhelming sense that should be the name of a character in The Hitchicker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Norwegian sawmill owner in upper Wisconsin.

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