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2 hours ago, Bull City said:

The wheels have just begun to turn.

The "wheels" are thinking about systems: diesel inboard, plumbing, electrical.

I can clean and varnish, and do some carpentry, but I am not a mechanic, or a plumber, or an electrician. My current boat has no systems, except navigation & cabin lights. The motor is an electric black box as far as I am concerned.

What would I be getting myself into with a Vixen 34?

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19 minutes ago, Bull City said:

The "wheels" are thinking about systems: diesel inboard, plumbing, electrical.

I can clean and varnish, and do some carpentry, but I am not a mechanic, or a plumber, or an electrician. My current boat has no systems, except navigation & cabin lights. The motor is an electric black box as far as I am concerned.

What would I be getting myself into with a Vixen 34?

....um, a bigger boat?  More slip expense.  More haul out expense.  More sail and cordage expense.  But don't you sail on a lake?  We should go back to thinking about that Ylva.....!

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21 minutes ago, Bull City said:

The "wheels" are thinking about systems: diesel inboard, plumbing, electrical.

I can clean and varnish, and do some carpentry, but I am not a mechanic, or a plumber, or an electrician. My current boat has no systems, except navigation & cabin lights. The motor is an electric black box as far as I am concerned.

What would I be getting myself into with a Vixen 34?

Just 'cause it's there doesn't mean you need to use it!  Even has a kerosene lamp for the committed luddite.  And Perkins diesels are about as easy as they come, just buy your parts at a tractor supply store when you can.  

Biggest thing I'd worry about is the varnish, and you've admitted to some competence in that regard, so no excuse!  :)

image.thumb.png.509796ab836fe5025df38dd613a2a0eb.png

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38 minutes ago, Bull City said:

What would I be getting myself into with a Vixen 34?

A learning experience.

None of us were born knowing how to fix stuff Bull.

You work on it and you fix it or fuck it up.

If the latter you work on it again.

It's easy, just time consuming but you've got lots of that, right?

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22 minutes ago, Veeger said:

....um, a bigger boat?  More slip expense.  More haul out expense.  More sail and cordage expense.  But don't you sail on a lake?  We should go back to thinking about that Ylva.....!

HaHaHa!

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

HaHaHa!

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Don't listen to him Bull! You need a boat to explore all that tidewater Carolina and Virginia have to offer whenever you get the urge.

I have a bit of diesel knowledge (and when I get stumped I call on my maintenance supervisor at work), and I have rebuilt Jabsco heads more often than I like to remember. Can offer a support system in exchange for an occasional ride. :)

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2 hours ago, Bull City said:

The "wheels" are thinking about systems: diesel inboard, plumbing, electrical.

I can clean and varnish, and do some carpentry, but I am not a mechanic, or a plumber, or an electrician. My current boat has no systems, except navigation & cabin lights. The motor is an electric black box as far as I am concerned.

What would I be getting myself into with a Vixen 34?

Well, you would be getting into what appears to be a really nice boat- I see why you are smitten. And sailing is all about following irrational impulses to wherever they take us. Sometimes that requires learning new skills. 

None of the things you mention are terribly difficult to get a handle on. There are plenty of people to call on for expertise and information. If appearance is any guide, the boat appears well taken care of. The Perkins I have now is the first diesel that I've really had full responsibility for, other than a single cylinder Yanmar. I've developed very positive feelings towards it.  Basic maintenance is simple and oddly satisfying. 

Expenses will be more- sails, rigging, and anything else that is sized by displacement. Only you can decide if that is worthwhile. Would you use that lovely cabin for socializing, just hanging out? Would things being a bit bigger keep you from casually sailing as much? Or would the added comforts expand sailing opportunities and range? 

Personally I see a lot of advantages in an older boat that has been fitted out reasonably well. 

Watching with anticipation...

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14 hours ago, Bull City said:

The "wheels" are thinking about systems: diesel inboard, plumbing, electrical.

I can clean and varnish, and do some carpentry, but I am not a mechanic, or a plumber, or an electrician. My current boat has no systems, except navigation & cabin lights. The motor is an electric black box as far as I am concerned.

What would I be getting myself into with a Vixen 34?

Very nice boat! 

 

I enjoy working on the mechanics of my boat, but I'm no mechanic. I never work on the engines in our cars (I hate cars). It's different. 

 

Only do what is fun, enjoyable. Once something frustrates -  walk away, pick up your palette and easel, call somebody,...

Many years ago in a cove where we kept our (then) boat, I heard the most astonishing scene that was going on below deck on a nearby moored boat.

Between loud - fast,  metallic thuds coming from below, a pause and then the hushed cries from a grown man,....almost whimpering in anguish.

A few seconds of silence would follow,....then the voice would raise in anger once again, and the thudding would begin - BANG BANG BANG, ...followed by the whimpering, like a flogged animal.

I felt so sorry for that man but he scared me too much to offer help. 

A boat could do that to you, if you let it. 

Vineyard Vixen 34 in the Fox Island Thoughofare. 

1101289539_WildRumpuscrop(1of1).thumb.jpg.99ab5848be458d0155ee476803874209.jpg

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For years on Saturday mornings I have passed by this squared-away little boat. I say 'little' because while it looks pleasing and shipshape to the eye, it is unassuming at rest at the city dock. Didn't realize it was a Morris until I finally looked up the listing (a Morris 36 Justine). 

I lust after this boat only in a fantasy where the owner has reduced its price from $149K to $39K. It is solid and practical but not beautiful...maybe because it doesn't have the dark, mirror-polished hull that one might expect of a boat of this sort. And it is 30 years old and not what one thinks of as a boat to sail the world in. But it sits there lonely, begging to be sailed. 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1990/morris-justine-3579669/

image.png.d7a4d1e06988278c00f6ebe846163d70.png

image.png.08472971718a061ad8daf846ed25c27e.png

 

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16 hours ago, Oceanconcepts said:

Well, you would be getting into what appears to be a really nice boat- I see why you are smitten. And sailing is all about following irrational impulses to wherever they take us. Sometimes that requires learning new skills. 

None of the things you mention are terribly difficult to get a handle on. There are plenty of people to call on for expertise and information. If appearance is any guide, the boat appears well taken care of. The Perkins I have now is the first diesel that I've really had full responsibility for, other than a single cylinder Yanmar. I've developed very positive feelings towards it.  Basic maintenance is simple and oddly satisfying. 

Expenses will be more- sails, rigging, and anything else that is sized by displacement. Only you can decide if that is worthwhile. Would you use that lovely cabin for socializing, just hanging out? Would things being a bit bigger keep you from casually sailing as much? Or would the added comforts expand sailing opportunities and range? 

Personally I see a lot of advantages in an older boat that has been fitted out reasonably well. 

Watching with anticipation...

Oh boy, do I agree with this^^^^^

I just went from a dead simple boat (O'day 23) to a small cruiser (Catalina 28); a boat with an outboard and a portapottie to an inboard diesel, shore power set up, pressure hot and cold water, etc.  I was very hesitant; I really only daysail, and I could do all the work on my boat myself.  I was comfortable and satisfied.  I had decided against making an offer on the Catalina, but I was having dinner with my parents (both in their 80's), and told them about my choice.  My father, one of the most frugal men alive, urged me to buy the new boat.  "If not now, when?"

So I did it, and I'm so happy I did.  Broke me out of my comfort zone.  I have to learn new things, which has been so rewarding.  And I am lucky enough to be able to afford to pay others to fix/maintain things that I can't.

 

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Looking at the two Vineyard Vixen models. Quite different!

                 SA/DISP  DISP/LWL

29 footer  13.89      315.55     Slow, underpowered; Heavy

34 footer   16.16      270.68    Reasonably good performance; Moderate

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8 hours ago, Bull City said:

Looking at the two Vineyard Vixen models. Quite different!

                 SA/DISP  DISP/LWL

29 footer  13.89      315.55     Slow, underpowered; Heavy

34 footer   16.16      270.68    Reasonably good performance; Moderate

Bull, 

I don't want to burst your bubble, but even the 34 is on the heavy/slow side, particularly on a lake in NC...Tonic is a 19.5 SA/Disp and 161.26 Disp/L.  A new J/99 is 22 and 160, and there's a thread where people are wondering if its not fast enough in light air...

That said, its a beauty of a boat.  Well maintained systems are generally easy to continue to keep "well maintained."  It's only if someone has let a system go, that it takes money, effort and know how to bring back.  Most common maintenance tasks on a small diesel are pretty easy to accomplish, and don't require the Snap-on truck to be parked nearby.  Certainly, there are enough of us here to be able to talk you thru/come by and help you learn to do most of them. Easy for me to say, I'm in Socal right now....

Given the mid-summer heat in NC, and your proclivity to escape to the NE in the summer, what about keeping Tonic on the lake, and the Vixen up north?  No reason you can't spend most of - or a good chunk of - the sailing season cruising New England and Canada, and then as soon as it starts to get cold (Sept) come back home and sail Tonic on your lake.  You deserve to be the Commodore of a Squadron of your own. :P

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9 hours ago, Crash said:

Bull, 

I don't want to burst your bubble, but even the 34 is on the heavy/slow side, particularly on a lake in NC...Tonic is a 19.5 SA/Disp and 161.26 Disp/L.  A new J/99 is 22 and 160, and there's a thread where people are wondering if its not fast enough in light air...

That said, its a beauty of a boat.  Well maintained systems are generally easy to continue to keep "well maintained."  It's only if someone has let a system go, that it takes money, effort and know how to bring back.  Most common maintenance tasks on a small diesel are pretty easy to accomplish, and don't require the Snap-on truck to be parked nearby.  Certainly, there are enough of us here to be able to talk you thru/come by and help you learn to do most of them. Easy for me to say, I'm in Socal right now....

Given the mid-summer heat in NC, and your proclivity to escape to the NE in the summer, what about keeping Tonic on the lake, and the Vixen up north?  No reason you can't spend most of - or a good chunk of - the sailing season cruising New England and Canada, and then as soon as it starts to get cold (Sept) come back home and sail Tonic on your lake.  You deserve to be the Commodore of a Squadron of your own. :P

Crash,

Thanks for these thoughts. The VV34 is a temptress, and this one appears to be well-maintained and reasonably priced. That said, she is not nimble. A few other things don't make sense for me.

  • At 34-feet, I think she is getting a bit large for my sailing venue, IMHO. If I were to shift my venue to the Oriental/Pamlico Sound, it's a 3 hour drive, and it's a different type of sailing - shoals, jelly fish, phosphate barges - and I would be crew dependent.
  • A good friend has a 34-footer on the near Oriental. He bought her second hand in 2002. He depends on me and another fellow for crew for weekend sails (we're retired so the "weekend" is anytime). 
  • Mrs. Bull is not a sailing enthusiast, but is happy to tag along occasionally. When she comes, she is a good crew, but sometimes worries about what would happen if I took ill, or worse, while we were sailing. I'm 71, so it's not unreasonable. She's happy on the lake, but I don't think she'd feel good half way between Oriental and Ocracoke.
  • A lot of my sailing is single-handing, and while I'm comfortable with that on Tonic, the VV34 would be a challenge. Few things are more sad than an old fart with more boat than he can handle. 

The bubble hasn't burst, but it is floating away.

B.C.

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39 minutes ago, frozenhawaiian said:

if you're gonna dream big, dream real big. I've always loved eleonora

She's beautiful, but I'd dream about her like I dream of Porsches - would love to drive someone else's 

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1 hour ago, frozenhawaiian said:

if you're gonna dream big, dream real big. I've always loved eleonora, I got to race on her several years ago during antigua classics. 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2000/herreshoff-van-der-graaf--eleonora--2995857/

 

large_445_166ce.jpg

eleonora1.jpg

I thought you said “if you’re gonna dream real big?”

I’d buy her but Only if the paid captain would let me drive.  (Nothing Like insolent employees always watching out for the rocks and owners sanity) 

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4 hours ago, Bull City said:

Crash,

Thanks for these thoughts. The VV34 is a temptress, and this one appears to be well-maintained and reasonably priced. That said, she is not nimble. A few other things don't make sense for me.

  • At 34-feet, I think she is getting a bit large for my sailing venue, IMHO. If I were to shift my venue to the Oriental/Pamlico Sound, it's a 3 hour drive, and it's a different type of sailing - shoals, jelly fish, phosphate barges - and I would be crew dependent.
  • A good friend has a 34-footer on the near Oriental. He bought her second hand in 2002. He depends on me and another fellow for crew for weekend sails (we're retired so the "weekend" is anytime). 
  • Mrs. Bull is not a sailing enthusiast, but is happy to tag along occasionally. When she comes, she is a good crew, but sometimes worries about what would happen if I took ill, or worse, while we were sailing. I'm 71, so it's not unreasonable. She's happy on the lake, but I don't think she'd feel good half way between Oriental and Ocracoke.
  • A lot of my sailing is single-handing, and while I'm comfortable with that on Tonic, the VV34 would be a challenge. Few things are more sad than an old fart with more boat than he can handle. 

The bubble hasn't burst, but it is floating away.

B.C.

71 is kinda late to be upsizing to a "big" boat.

Most of us nearing that age are well along in downsizing - for the factors you mention.

The VV 34 is a pretty serious cruising boat, not a daysailer/weekender. Operating costs will be many multiples of your current boat.

Do you have anyone who would partner with you on it? That works extremely well for a friend of mine with a 38'

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Bull,   (please recline in a comfortable position on this couch,  I've got some questions for you)

Now, Mr. BC, you have an aesthetically pleasing, sweet sailing, perfect little daysailer for your current lake waters.  However, I detect a bit of dissatisfaction with your current ride,  tell me a little more.  Do want to sail on larger waters?  Do you need a little more camp space down below?  Or is there a certain aesthetic 'itch' you wish to satisfy?

Trust me, I've spent time on that there couch as well, AND with similar internal disturbance.  We need to understand the underlying objective before we can adequately recommend a course of treatment. I, too, am still in the diagnosis stage so can relate

Dr Veeger  (not really a Dr but I play one on the inter webs)

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48 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

71 is kinda late to be upsizing to a "big" boat. True

Most of us nearing that age are well along in downsizing - for the factors you mention. True

The VV 34 is a pretty serious cruising boat, not a daysailer/weekender. Operating costs will be many multiples of your current boat. True

Do you have anyone who would partner with you on it? That works extremely well for a friend of mine with a 38' Mrs. Bull? :P

 

27 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Bull,   (please recline in a comfortable position on this couch,  I've got some questions for you)

Now, Mr. BC, you have an aesthetically pleasing, sweet sailing, perfect little daysailer for your current lake waters.  However, I detect a bit of dissatisfaction with your current ride,  tell me a little more.  Do want to sail on larger waters?  Do you need a little more camp space down below?  Or is there a certain aesthetic 'itch' you wish to satisfy?

Trust me, I've spent time on that there couch as well, AND with similar internal disturbance.  We need to understand the underlying objective before we can adequately recommend a course of treatment. I, too, am still in the diagnosis stage so can relate

Dr Veeger  (not really a Dr but I play one on the inter webs)

Doctor Veeger, the VV34 is a temptress, as I have said, but I think she would be overkill. The H-Boat meets almost all of my needs. I'm really pretty happy on the lake as opposed to the coast. A few more creature comforts would be nice. If Mrs. Bull and I were committed to coastal cruising, the VV34 would be a good choice. 

Jimmy Carter on lust: "I've looked on a lot of women with lust." Same with most of us... on boats too! It's fun as long as we practice safe lust.

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18 minutes ago, Bull City said:

 

Jimmy Carter on lust: "I've looked on a lot of women with lust." Same with most of us... on boats too! It's fun as long as we practice safe lust.

Oh, wait..... let me go find my funny little white collar and black shirt...

 

Ah, yes,  Rev. Veeger here, at your service....

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5 hours ago, Bull City said:

Crash,

Thanks for these thoughts. The VV34 is a temptress, and this one appears to be well-maintained and reasonably priced. That said, she is not nimble. A few other things don't make sense for me.

  • At 34-feet, I think she is getting a bit large for my sailing venue, IMHO. If I were to shift my venue to the Oriental/Pamlico Sound, it's a 3 hour drive, and it's a different type of sailing - shoals, jelly fish, phosphate barges - and I would be crew dependent.
  • A good friend has a 34-footer on the near Oriental. He bought her second hand in 2002. He depends on me and another fellow for crew for weekend sails (we're retired so the "weekend" is anytime). 
  • Mrs. Bull is not a sailing enthusiast, but is happy to tag along occasionally. When she comes, she is a good crew, but sometimes worries about what would happen if I took ill, or worse, while we were sailing. I'm 71, so it's not unreasonable. She's happy on the lake, but I don't think she'd feel good half way between Oriental and Ocracoke.
  • A lot of my sailing is single-handing, and while I'm comfortable with that on Tonic, the VV34 would be a challenge. Few things are more sad than an old fart with more boat than he can handle. 

The bubble hasn't burst, but it is floating away.

B.C.

A three hour drive means that going sailing or doing maintenance isn't easily done in a single day.  If your wife is an occasional sailor she might not want to go with you often, yet may be unhappy being left alone at home if you spend the night on the boat.

As far as single handling a boat that size at 71, there is a Tartan 3800 on my dock that is often single handed by the owner, a 87 year old man. He and his wife also go out for 1-2 week cruises a couple of times a year.  His only concession to age is an electric halyard winch.  He is my inspiration when I think about the distant future.

The annual costs and maintenance labor are another factor.  Slip fees, annual haul out and bottom paint, and insurance could cost you $4K a year or more depending on local costs.  And more money for fixing things that break and replacing things that are worn out.

On the other hand, sailing on your lake with your current boat may eventually get old and a new boat and new venue could be just the right solution......

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

71 is kinda late to be upsizing to a "big" boat.

Most of us nearing that age are well along in downsizing - for the factors you mention.

The VV 34 is a pretty serious cruising boat, not a daysailer/weekender. Operating costs will be many multiples of your current boat.

Do you have anyone who would partner with you on it? That works extremely well for a friend of mine with a 38'

I tend to agree- I moved to a much bigger boat a few years back as a youth of 65. I find the challenges interesting, I hope to do more local cruising and already live in an area ideal for it, and I love exploring my boat's history (overall winner of the Sydney-Hobart in '71, etc.), and generally I like doing the woodworking and maintenance.

But there are times when I really miss my old Aphrodite 101. At 33',  6' beam, and about 7,000 pounds & with a fractional rig and self tacking jib, I could be sailing by myself in 15 minutes. For the pure, simple pleasure of sailing it was hard to beat. And everything was a LOT less expensive. Unless you are going to use the boat for what it is best suited for, it's probably best to admire from afar. Still, that is a really beauty...

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

 

Doctor Veeger, the VV34 is a temptress, as I have said, but I think she would be overkill. The H-Boat meets almost all of my needs. I'm really pretty happy on the lake as opposed to the coast. A few more creature comforts would be nice. If Mrs. Bull and I were committed to coastal cruising, the VV34 would be a good choice. 

Jimmy Carter on lust: "I've looked on a lot of women with lust." Same with most of us... on boats too! It's fun as long as we practice safe lust.

Jimmy only "lusted in his heart". :D

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44 minutes ago, Oceanconcepts said:

I tend to agree- I moved to a much bigger boat a few years back as a youth of 65. I find the challenges interesting, I hope to do more local cruising and already live in an area ideal for it, and I love exploring my boat's history (overall winner of the Sydney-Hobart in '71, etc.), and generally I like doing the woodworking and maintenance.

But there are times when I really miss my old Aphrodite 101. At 33',  6' beam, and about 7,000 pounds & with a fractional rig and self tacking jib, I could be sailing by myself in 15 minutes. For the pure, simple pleasure of sailing it was hard to beat. And everything was a LOT less expensive. Unless you are going to use the boat for what it is best suited for, it's probably best to admire from afar. Still, that is a really beauty...

Just out of curiosity, did you have your Aphrodite out of the water years ago at Race Rock in West Van?

I remember selling a Yanmar shaft coupling to a Seattlite who was there with a shaft problem - probably 15 years ago or so.

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

 

Doctor Veeger, the VV34 is a temptress, as I have said, but I think she would be overkill. The H-Boat meets almost all of my needs. I'm really pretty happy on the lake as opposed to the coast. A few more creature comforts would be nice. If Mrs. Bull and I were committed to coastal cruising, the VV34 would be a good choice. 

Jimmy Carter on lust: "I've looked on a lot of women with lust." Same with most of us... on boats too! It's fun as long as we practice safe lust.

The 34 is the perfect boat to go for a day sail and spend the night on the boat at the mooring.  That's what my parents who are in their mid-70's and with some health issues will do with my 38'  boat this coming Summer. While you will lose the simplicity and responsiveness of the H-boat, might the gentler motion and more comfortable accommodations make it more interesting for Mrs Bull? 

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I wouldn't regard the singlehanding aspect of that boat as a deal breaker. I looked at buying the attached boat (that actual boat - Porpoise) years ago. The 90 Y/O owner/builder was selling it because it was getting too much to singlehand. Plain winches, no furling, 15 tons loaded etc.

With modern gear I think a pretty big boat can be handled alone as long as you are still spry enough to sail at all.

image.png.73dbe077a6e2f72d025c94cbbc7461f2.png

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Just out of curiosity, did you have your Aphrodite out of the water years ago at Race Rock in West Van?

I remember selling a Yanmar shaft coupling to a Seattlite who was there with a shaft problem - probably 15 years ago or so.

Not me- mine stayed on Lake Washington for many years. I owned it with a friend and neighbor here on the lake. It was kind of the neighborhood sailboat when our kids were growing up. Unfortunately my boat partner fell ill and died at a very young age, and I let the Aphrodite get into pretty rough shape. Teak decks had gone and so forth. I was able to sell it to a very nice couple who did a bang up restoration and are now racing it. In one of those great outcomes, one of my former partner's daughters lives abroad on the same dock and sometimes races with them. I'm really happy that someone is caring for the boat- it is well worth it. 

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7 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

if you're gonna dream big, dream real big. I've always loved eleonora, I got to race on her several years ago during antigua classics. 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2000/herreshoff-van-der-graaf--eleonora--2995857/

 

large_445_166ce.jpg

eleonora1.jpg

Right on brotha.

 

go  big or  go home 

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Can we please return to therapy for a moment?  All the points made regarding the impracticality of the Vixen for you are well taken. However, this particular statement probably puts several of us on the couch with you:

7 hours ago, Bull City said:

Mrs. Bull is .... a good crew, but sometimes worries about what would happen if I took ill, or worse, while we were sailing. I'm 71, so it's not unreasonable. She's happy on the lake, but I don't think she'd feel good half way between Oriental and Ocracoke.

There lies the tension, doesn't it? I don't know about you, but a voyage to somewhere transports me back to a childlike state of enthusiasm. Yes we are all bounded by resources, time, and the "sensibility" of doing the thing. (My wife's imaginary line is oceans: "If you sail to Bermuda, get a good crew, because I'll be meeting you there.")  But sailing is highly unlikely to take any of us out. (Think flu or cancer or some other unromantic end.)  So don't buy the boat because the logistics of your life just aren't a fit with this particular craft. But reassure yourselves that with sailing, the risks are smaller than they may sometimes seem, and the rewards of its freedom and adventure are hard to surpass.

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2 hours ago, Elegua said:

While you will lose the simplicity and responsiveness of the H-boat, might the gentler motion and more comfortable accommodations make it more interesting for Mrs Bull?

Hmmm... I'll have to ask her, but I think the answer is probably not.

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21 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

Can we please return to therapy for a moment?  All the points made regarding the impracticality of the Vixen for you are well taken. However, this particular statement probably puts several of us on the couch with you:

There lies the tension, doesn't it? I don't know about you, but a voyage to somewhere transports me back to a childlike state of enthusiasm. Yes we are all bounded by resources, time, and the "sensibility" of doing the thing. (My wife's imaginary line is oceans: "If you sail to Bermuda, get a good crew, because I'll be meeting you there.")  But sailing is highly unlikely to take any of us out. (Think flu or cancer or some other unromantic end.)  So don't buy the boat because the logistics of your life just aren't a fit with this particular craft. But reassure yourselves that with sailing, the risks are smaller than they may sometimes seem, and the rewards of its freedom and adventure are hard to surpass.

Iz, this is all your fault. I never, ever lusted on Yachtworld before you started this thread. Now look what you've done. :P

I think you're right about sailing. With navigation technology, forecasts and telecommunications, many hazards can be avoided. When I said "took ill, or worse," I was thinking natural causes, although the crack of a boom on the noggin could also be a problem.

 

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

Hmmm... I'll have to ask her, but I think the answer is probably not.

Charter something similar for a weekend and see.

You dropping dead on her can be covered with a VHF. :D My uncle had a big plane - Beech King Air. My aunt learned enough to land it if Gordon croaked while they were in the air.

Just keep a big flag on the boat so she can slip you over the side.

 

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

Hmmm... I'll have to ask her, but I think the answer is probably not.

The situation here was greatly helped by the bigger boat's more, um, stately motion, and the superior wine and cheese potential. Also a cockpit table and better places for friends to congregate and relax.

Also, it's a special case, but my wife is an electronics engineer/ instrumentation designer, and it helps that there is a part of the boat that she understands better than I do. 

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25 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Charter something similar for a weekend and see.

You dropping dead on her can be covered with a VHF. :D My uncle had a big plane - Beech King Air. My aunt learned enough to land it if Gordon croaked while they were in the air.

Just keep a big flag on the boat so she can slip you over the side.

 

No, it's best to hang onto the body, it shortens probate.

As far as boat size, I'm turning 70 this year and I frequently singlehand our C&C 35, and also doublehand with SWMBO. We really like the extra space and the size gives us a bit more comfort when we spend 4-6 weeks a summer aboard.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

You married well.

That I did- I was late getting to it, though. 30 years last year.  

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10 minutes ago, Oceanconcepts said:

The situation here was greatly helped by the bigger boat's more, um, stately motion, and the superior wine and cheese potential. Also a cockpit table and better places for friends to congregate and relax.

Also, it's a special case, but my wife is an electronics engineer/ instrumentation designer, and it helps that there is a part of the boat that she understands better than I do. 

Ocean, you are getting close to the "things." The ability to mix a cold, dry martini would be nice, and I do love simple, Mediterranean cooking. The VV34 offers this. On the other hand, Mrs. Bull was a Math and Humanistic Studies major. She doesn't know one end of battery from the other.

I am very jealous of you lucky, fucking bastards fellows who can get your wives to cruise with you. BTW, Mrs. Bull was and still is quite a swimmer. She was invited to the Olympic trials when she was 15 or 16, but couldn't be bothered. Even now, when she gets into the water now, at 71, she is a motoring machine. Truly amazing.

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12 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Ocean, you are getting close to the "things." The ability to mix a cold, dry martini would be nice, and I do love simple, Mediterranean cooking. The VV34 offers this. On the other hand, Mrs. Bull was a Math and Humanistic Studies major. She doesn't know one end of battery from the other.

I am very jealous of you lucky, fucking bastards fellows who can get your wives to cruise with you. BTW, Mrs. Bull was and still is quite a swimmer. She was invited to the Olympic trials when she was 15 or 16, but couldn't be bothered. Even now, when she gets into the water now, at 71, she is a motoring machine. Truly amazing.

Bull, the lingering thought I have about the Vixen is how the two of you would be received when arriving at practically every public wharf from here to Maryland: A steady stream of admirers, sailors wanting to share stories, invitations from interesting people for drinks and dinner. Just sayin' :)

Hats off to your bride for keeping up the swimming. There is a lady in her 70s who passes me steadily at the local pool, using the quietest most efficient stroke. A great skill and great cardio exercise.

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

Iz, this is all your fault. I never, ever lusted on Yachtworld before you started this thread. Now look what you've done. :P

Misery loves company. Today I was fixated on that damned Morris here in town...maybe the owner would make a crazy deal...no of course he wouldn't. Let's keep browsing...

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Bull, at 71 the tables say you’ve got another 14 years. You could have a good ten summers with Vixen

Move to Canada and you might last another 18. Make sure it isn't Winterpeg, that will shorten your expectancy by about 14 years.

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I am here in Winnipeg and my friend tells me the best sailing in Canada is on Lake of the Woods.  He has sailed both unfrozen coasts.  I have dinghy sailed Lake Winnipeg and it can be interesting and a challenge.  Living at these temperatures does require some hardiness.  Outdoor activities require proper clothing at -30C but still are rewarding.  The hard water sailing season is short but a tremendous rush.

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15 minutes ago, The great unwashed said:

Kanters are nice--this one in particular.  But I have an unreasoning (possibly) fear of used aluminum boats.  What if somebody dropped a few strands of copper wire into the bilge 3 years ago....

what if that's the tradition?

 Image result for put a penny beneath the mast

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Aluminum has some great properties as well as not not so great ones.  When I was a mid at the boat school in '82?  One of our crews ran Cinnabar across a 4 ft shoal in the Delaware Bay on a night it was blowing close to 60 knots.  Bent the keel a good amount off straight up and down.  No cracks, no leaks.  Just a boat with a fair amount of a list when it got home.  (Early experiment in canting keels?) Took 2 trips to Newport Offshore to fix it right, but not sure a fiberglass yacht would have withstood that punishment without taking on a bunch of water....

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On 2/17/2020 at 9:07 PM, SloopJonB said:

Those are gorgeous boats but I think one would be disappointed in their performance - PHRF is about the same as a San Juan 24.

Well, if all you're going to do is sit in your dink and admire it, I suppose that doesn't matter. :lol:

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7 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

I'm admiring the shingle house behind it as well.

They're called cottages once you get north of, oh, Watch Hill, RI! 

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On 2/13/2020 at 12:39 AM, Crash said:

Aluminum has some great properties as well as not not so great ones.  When I was a mid at the boat school in '82?  One of our crews ran Cinnabar across a 4 ft shoal in the Delaware Bay on a night it was blowing close to 60 knots.  Bent the keel a good amount off straight up and down.  No cracks, no leaks.  Just a boat with a fair amount of a list when it got home.  (Early experiment in canting keels?) Took 2 trips to Newport Offshore to fix it right, but not sure a fiberglass yacht would have withstood that punishment without taking on a bunch of water....

Cinnabar!  OMG, that boat and some of its skippers have quite the history (all pre-internet I think).  Dang, that is a blast from the past. Overtaking anyone!?!

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Yeah, pre-internet.:rolleyes:..like the computer lab that filled Ward Hall, and learning to program with "if, then" statements (Basic I think it was called), and punch cards, etc....

Ahhh, those were the days!

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10 minutes ago, Crash said:

Yeah, pre-internet.:rolleyes:..like the computer lab that filled Ward Hall, and learning to program with "if, then" statements (Basic I think it was called), and punch cards, etc....

Ahhh, those were the days!

Better than water from Isabel LOL.  You been back and seen the new cyber building going up?

Hey and given the boat reference and your name...  you ain't the overtaking skipper are you? 

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On 2/6/2020 at 6:41 PM, Bull City said:

Ocean, you are getting close to the "things." The ability to mix a cold, dry martini would be nice, and I do love simple, Mediterranean cooking. The VV34 offers this. On the other hand, Mrs. Bull was a Math and Humanistic Studies major. She doesn't know one end of battery from the other.

I am very jealous of you lucky, fucking bastards fellows who can get your wives to cruise with you. BTW, Mrs. Bull was and still is quite a swimmer. She was invited to the Olympic trials when she was 15 or 16, but couldn't be bothered. Even now, when she gets into the water now, at 71, she is a motoring machine. Truly amazing.

I will tell you this: at 64, my wife would not camp on an H-boat for money or for love. 

She did 2 Bermuda returns on the SW-42, that was a nice sized boat for us, actually has the interior volume of a modern 36'-er, but well laid out.

Oddly, Restive is actually a little easier to handle than Sparky. 

Beth prefers the sailboat to the house. She'd move aboard if I were willing to retire.

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2 hours ago, Bull City said:

Well, if all you're going to do is sit in your dink and admire it, I suppose that doesn't matter. :lol:

True - it does peg the row-away meter.

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I was actually there for Isabel too!  I spent the night on my brand new J/109, as quite literally, all my cash was tied up "to the dock" so to speak!  My (new) wife was teaching there in Weapons and Systems.

I was not the overtaking boat.  I had been skipper of Spitfire that fall (82) then lost the boat when my GPA was an impressive 1.2 at the end of the semester.  Didn't fail any classes, but 4 D's and 2 C's did not impress anyone.  Got to go to the long green table during Christmas Break.  So that spring (it was really 83, not 82) I was doing foredeck on a Yawl that they gave to my "XO" from Spitfire.  We spent that night "chasing" a strobe light off shore of Ocean City, MD, talking to the Coast Guard, thinking it had to mean a Mid was overboard off one of the other boats ahead of us...After many hours we and the Coast Guard gave up as there were no distress calls from any boats.  We ended up shooting the inlet into Ocean City (that was kinda crazy) around 3 am or so and sitting out the rest of the storm there.  When we got back, found out one of the other yawls had hove to in the storm, and lashed their MOB strobe to the boom to "increase their visibility to other boats" and they all went below to ride it out. <_<.  Also heard about Cinnabars time on the bar.  Knew the Skipper well, he was a classmate.  Later that summer I was one of the Ensigns that took to Cinnabar up to and back from Newport Offshore to be fixed the first time.  Then when we got back, looking at it in the slip and realizing she still had a list.  So then we took all the gear, etc off her, and still listing, so we hauled her and measured, and sure enough, bottom of the keel not centered.  So back she went.

 

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36 minutes ago, Crash said:

Yeah, pre-internet.:rolleyes:..like the computer lab that filled Ward Hall, and learning to program with "if, then" statements (Basic I think it was called), and punch cards, etc....

Ahhh, those were the days!

When my kids were in high school in the 90's I made mention of punch cards.

I got a blank "what's that" from them. :D

I still had some in my desk at work FFS.

One of my earliest "Gawd I feel old" experiences.

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16 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

I will tell you this: at 64, my wife would not camp on an H-boat for money or for love.

Well that's your fault for a lifetime of spoiling her. ;)

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4 minutes ago, Crash said:

I was actually there for Isabel too!  I spent the night on my brand new J/109, as quite literally, all my cash was tied up "to the dock" so to speak!  My (new) wife was teaching there in Weapons and Systems.

I was not the overtaking boat.  I had been skipper of Spitfire that fall (82) then lost the boat when my GPA was an impressive 1.2 at the end of the semester.  Didn't fail any classes, but 4 D's and 2 C's did not impress anyone.  Got to go to the long green table during Christmas Break.  So that spring (it was really 83, not 82) I was doing foredeck on a Yawl that they gave to my "XO" from Spitfire.  We spent that night "chasing" a strobe light off shore of Ocean City, MD, talking to the Coast Guard, thinking it had to mean a Mid was overboard off one of the other boats ahead of us...After many hours we and the Coast Guard gave up as there were no distress calls from any boats.  We ended up shooting the inlet into Ocean City (that was kinda crazy) around 3 am or so and sitting out the rest of the storm there.  When we got back, found out one of the other yawls had hove to in the storm, and lashed their MOB strobe to the boom to "increase their visibility to other boats" and they all went below to ride it out. <_<.  Also heard about Cinnabars time on the bar.  Knew the Skipper well, he was a classmate.  Later that summer I was one of the Ensigns that took to Cinnabar up to and back from Newport Offshore to be fixed the first time.  Then when we got back, looking at it in the slip and realizing she still had a list.  So then we took all the gear, etc off her, and still listing, so we hauled her and measured, and sure enough, bottom of the keel not centered.  So back she went.

 

Great stories.  I got nothing to compare. Well other than being sponsors to a youngster who sunk his first command - a J22 - in the middle of the Severn. 

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The nickname Crash was bestowed on me while at school.  2 sailboat accidents. 1st was port/starboard match racing on Shields - totally my fault! The second port starboard as acting skipper on a yawl while a second class.  I was on starboard that time.  Other guy (civilian 37 footer) was just leeward and ahead of us, and tried to tack and cross.  Jib got fouled on the tack, and he parked himself right in front of us.   Tried to crash tack, but the yawls weren't all the quick.  Hit him right at the shrouds.  Dropped his mast, and broke his prop shaft.  Had a small tear in our #3 and some scraped paint on the bow!  Withdrew from racing, and towed him in.  Got to go have a "personal" interview with "Nasty Ned" Shuman, the Capt in charge of the sailing team.  Got an ass reaming the likes of which have never yet been equalled.  And kicked off the team for the rest of that season.  Then as a Firstie, sneaking out to see some girls up in Morgantown WV, drove my car over a set of railroad tracks.  So the name just kinda stuck.  Later as a Tomcat RIO, my pilot managed to bump wings with the Skipper's jet while in parade formation...so maybe the name is "well earned?"

Many years later I was at the Annapolis Boat Show, and the Pax River guys had one of the Yawls at the show (they had just restored it).  I was standing there looking at it, when some older guy said, "I was once hit by one of those..."  Yep, sure enough, it was the guy.  We each had quite the laugh!

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6 minutes ago, Crash said:

The second port starboard as acting skipper on a yawl while a second class.  I was on starboard that time.  Other guy (civilian 37 footer) was just leeward and ahead of us, and tried to tack and cross.  Jib got fouled on the tack, and he parked himself right in front of us.   Tried to crash tack, but the yawls weren't all the quick.  Hit him right at the shrouds. 

Wouldn't this have been the "civilian's" fault?

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15 minutes ago, Crash said:

The nickname Crash was bestowed on me while at school.  2 sailboat accidents. 1st was port/starboard match racing on Shields - totally my fault! The second port starboard as acting skipper on a yawl while a second class.  I was on starboard that time.  Other guy (civilian 37 footer) was just leeward and ahead of us, and tried to tack and cross.  Jib got fouled on the tack, and he parked himself right in front of us.   Tried to crash tack, but the yawls weren't all the quick.  Hit him right at the shrouds.  Dropped his mast, and broke his prop shaft.  Had a small tear in our #3 and some scraped paint on the bow!  Withdrew from racing, and towed him in.  Got to go have a "personal" interview with "Nasty Ned" Shuman, the Capt in charge of the sailing team.  Got an ass reaming the likes of which have never yet been equalled.  And kicked off the team for the rest of that season.  Then as a Firstie, sneaking out to see some girls up in Morgantown WV, drove my car over a set of railroad tracks.  So the name just kinda stuck.  Later as a Tomcat RIO, my pilot managed to bump wings with the Skipper's jet while in parade formation...so maybe the name is "well earned?"

Many years later I was at the Annapolis Boat Show, and the Pax River guys had one of the Yawls at the show (they had just restored it).  I was standing there looking at it, when some older guy said, "I was once hit by one of those..."  Yep, sure enough, it was the guy.  We each had quite the laugh!

You folks lead some interesting lives. Then and now.  Thanks for what you do/did.  Just stay away from me while on the water LOL.  And in the air!!  You ain't still in are you... should be long since retired and enjoying life...

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26 minutes ago, Wess said:

You folks lead some interesting lives. Then and now.  Thanks for what you do/did.  Just stay away from me while on the water LOL.  And in the air!!  You ain't still in are you... should be long since retired and enjoying life...

Long since retired.  My wife says I learned where the ends of my boat were while someone else was paying the bills!  Keep your fingers crossed, but I've never had a repeat with my own boats.:rolleyes:  I might have learned some caution and judgement as I've aged...

 

41 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Wouldn't this have been the "civilian's" fault?

It was, and the skipper apologized right away, and accepted full responsibility.  Probably why I got to come back to the team next semester and still got a boat as a Skipper a year later.  Capt Shuman's point was it is never just "one persons fault" and that as a Skipper it was my job to have been aware of what the other boat might do and be ready to take action to avoid him regardless.  His delivery was not of the kind and nurturing manner however.  Around the time of Isabel - so 20 some odd years later, I was at a friend's promotion to 0-6.  And there at the ceremony was this very quiet, humble, self deprecating older man.  Capt Shuman, retired, himself.  I went and introduced myself, and recounted his memorable ass-chewing.  He seemed quite embarrassed.  I told him it was just what that cocky, over-confident young midshipman needed, and thanked him for delivering it.    

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4 hours ago, Crash said:

Capt Shuman's point was it is never just "one persons fault" and that as a Skipper it was my job to have been aware of what the other boat might do and be ready to take action to avoid him regardless. 

I take his point, although sometimes there is no time.

I was an Ensign then Lieutenant(jg)in the early 1970s, in DESLANT. From my vantage point today, it was all fun.

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

And over 10,000 square feet.

Oh, that's sooo funny? A 10,000 square foot cottage???

 

 

 

They don't come that small. 

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Priced to sell!  Jump on it!  fyi, not only is this guy smart to sell at a 'buy it now' asking price, he is/was smart enough to let the Admiral run free with the pillows too.  Waaaay cheaper than most any single electronic item and guaranteed to achieve full 'buy in' for the Admiral. 

 

(ask me how I know)

Edit:  I'd change it over to a tiller..... give the pedestal to someone who actually wanted it...

 

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Half price for a 13 year old boat?  Offer $90 and you're probably a boat owner. 

I like  the boat. The vee berth likely only sleeps one actual human and some pillows comfortably, as it is quite narrow, reflecting the beam of the boat, and no way there is room for two sets of feet at the foot of the bunk. The settees look comfy, and it likely a fine place to entertain another couple before they go back to their own boat. 

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2 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

 

Half price for a 13 year old boat?  Offer $90 and you're probably a boat owner. 

I like  the boat. The vee berth likely only sleeps one actual human and some pillows comfortably, as it is quite narrow, reflecting the beam of the boat, and no way there is room for two sets of feet at the foot of the bunk. The settees look comfy, and it likely a fine place to entertain another couple before they go back to their own boat. 

Agree it’s a double berth for short anorexics only and that chart thingy should go in the bin along with the wheel.

Its a 36ft sailboat with no locker for your foulies.

 

 

 

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