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So what's wrong with an Opti kid being awarded the Rolex Male athlete of the Year?  Here's what  Shirley Robertson had to say: "Marco is undoubtedly a great talent, and I'm sure in time we will s

It's strange where one can gain motivation, sometimes in the unlikeliest of places. Mrs Octopus, stumbled a bit and has misrepresented the facts. Curious by comparison just appears to be  misinformed,

That's an awesome set of rose-coloured glasses you've got on! Yes, I prefer the discourse be public as other anarchists are interested also in the discussion.  You must be puzzled by the disconne

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It's been a while since I've had contact with them, but the NYRC had one of the best and most effective sail training programs I've ever seen. Exactly what I would have liked to duplicate if I had the resources.

I don't know what caused the falling out with AS; possibly the fact the training was not at that time in accordance with AS prescriptions (which I viewed as always destructive of the efforts of volunteer run clubs).

I couldn't find the correspondence referred to but if the $69 is what AS want per member - yes that is a lot of money. It is a full half of the fee charged for membership of our small club. So that take that half and give absolutely nothing, zero, zilch in return, leaving the club to run on the other half with all the costs that running a club entails.

And in our low to lower middle class area, there is no shortage of push back on the $140; especially when trying to sign up younger persons. It all just makes expanding the sport of sailing harder.

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3 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

Hi roon

I'm happy to reserve judgement, but I certainly did read the emails "outlining the implications" as a very thinly veiled threat - at the very least, someone needs to take a lot more care when wording sensitive communications like that one. 

As a qualified NRO,  I took great umbrage at the "implication" that my qualification would be at risk if I volunteered to help out at a club that wasn't AS affiliated.  Who I help out is none of their fucking business, the same as who I invite to come for a sail on my boat.  

I wish NYRC good luck in resolving the issue.  The club seems prosperous, so maybe the levy isn't a big deal to them.

Cheers mate! The issue in question has been dragging on for some years....The letter from Ben has been a great tool for bringing this issue to resolve and for enlightening many sailing members of the club about the situation with AS. I'm dirty because I thought I was affiliated through my membership fees....it appears this hasn't been the case! It also has implications on my vessel insurance with respect to racing.

She's a good club the NYRC....drop in on a Wednesday and come for a sail!

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1 hour ago, lydia said:

By the way Roon, what did you exactly get for your $70.00

Because that is the problem.

This...

This registration identifies you as a member of an affiliated club complying with RRS 46 allowing skippers and crew to sail in more than three officially sanctioned races

https://www.sailing.org.au/nsw/nsw-affiliation/

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1 minute ago, roon said:

Cheers mate! The issue in question has been dragging on for some years....The letter from Ben has been a great tool for bringing this issue to resolve and for enlightening many sailing members of the club about the situation with AS. I'm dirty because I thought I was affiliated through my membership fees....it appears this hasn't been the case! It also has implications on my vessel insurance with respect to racing.

She's a good club the NYRC....drop in on a Wednesday and come for a sail!

Hi Roon how does it effect your vessel insurance? my boat is insured for racing and for anyone getting hurt as well or others whilst racing. 

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7 minutes ago, lydia said:

By the way Roon, what did you exactly get for your $70.00

Because that is the problem.

I have long questioned what value for money I receive for my subs. If by paying this money it means I can enter my sailboat in yacht races then unfortunately I have to pay it. I live in hope that one day the right person will helm AS and provide members with more accountability, less expenditure on the Olympic gravy train and generally show a real interest in promoting and supporting the sport of sailing at all levels.

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1 minute ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

This...

This registration identifies you as a member of an affiliated club complying with RRS 46 allowing skippers and crew to sail in more than three officially sanctioned races

https://www.sailing.org.au/nsw/nsw-affiliation/

Don't you think that's a lot of money just to give me permission to go sailing. More like extortion really.

And if what is said above is right, we no longer get the three introductory sails - the dumbest move ever by them if they had the slightest idea how clubs without an 'R' prefix expand membership.

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6 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

This...

This registration identifies you as a member of an affiliated club complying with RRS 46 allowing skippers and crew to sail in more than three officially sanctioned races

https://www.sailing.org.au/nsw/nsw-affiliation/

And why should I pay $70.00 (or in my case about $300.00) for that.

I also pay my club entry fee or are you suggesting that clubs should not charge for race entry.

That's right some don't as the view is taken that this covered by the annual dues.

What a great idea.

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6 minutes ago, Rum Monkey said:

Hi Roon how does it effect your vessel insurance? my boat is insured for racing and for anyone getting hurt as well or others whilst racing. 

Hi Rum! I'm with Nautilus....I've just tried to copy the wording but it won't let me?? The wording reads; ".....while competing in sailboat races as defined by the ISAF rules..."

 

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1 hour ago, lydia said:

And why should I pay $70.00 (or in my case about $300.00) for that.

I also pay my club entry fee or are you suggesting that clubs should not charge for race entry.

That's right some don't as the view is taken that this covered by the annual dues.

What a great idea.

Jeesus, keep your shirt on.

Sarcasm font intended.

I reckon its time to get back to having fun on the water.

F#### AS, and the CLUBS.

Gate start.

Fastest boat hangs around and records the finish times . 

Everyone meets down the local for a drink ,or a raft up, whatever

 

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16 minutes ago, roon said:

Hi Rregum! I'm with Nautilus....I've just tried to copy the wording but it won't let me?? The wording reads; ".....while competing in sailboat races as defined by the ISAF rules..." 

Roon, talk to the insurer, this was an issue with new independent clubs that have formed in Sydney and Pittwater and has been sorted as I understand it for racing under a set of Col Reg based rules

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This is the email posted on the NSRC Facebook page sent to members of the Noosa River Sailing Club who have chosen to disaffiliate from YA.  The tone is disgraceful

 

Dear Member

I am writing to you as a current or recent sailing member of Noosa Yacht and Rowing Club to inform you that the Club has chosen to disaffiliate from the sports governing body’s of Yachting Queensland and Australian Sailing. We find this decision very disappointing.

 

What this mean for you as an individual:

You are no longer eligible to participate in any sailing events

You no longer have Australian Sailing Personal Accident insurance If participating at events at NYRC

the racing rules of sailing no longer apply and there is no means to seek redress or appeals to any decision made by the race committee

If you are an accredited Race Official your ability to act as such may be affected

If you are an accredited Instructor or Coach your ability to act as such may be affected

You will no longer have access to your online mySailor log and record of membership, qualifications, etc.

 

Please see attached a letter that has been sent to the Committee of NYRC. This letter further outlines the consequences to the clubs with regards to the sport of sailing as a result of their decision to disaffiliate. Should you feel strongly one way or the other we suggest you take it up with the club committee.

 

Should you wish to be an active member of the sailing community you may need to consider joining another club affiliated to Australian Sailing.

 

To find your closest club please visit this link - https://www.sailing.org.au/club-finder/

 

Kind regards

Ben Callard

Ben CallardRegional Manager ‑ Queenslandt: 07 3393 6788 | m: +614 1705 3015ben.callard@sailing.org.auwww.sailing.org.au
578 Royal Esplanade, Manly, 4179

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7 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Jeesus, keep your shirt on.

I reckon its time to get back to having fun on the water.

F#### AS, and the CLUBS.

Gate start.

Fastest boat hangs around and records the finish times . 

Everyone meets down the local for a drink or a raft up.

 

I suggested that once and I got shouted down and called a fuckwit.

Must just be me.

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1 minute ago, lydia said:

Roon, talk to the insurer, this was an issue with new independent clubs that have formed in Sydney and Pittwater and has been sorted as I understand it for racing under a set of Col Reg based rules

Cheers Lydia, good to know. The wording is in my opinion a little ambiguous....but as you well know, best not to make your own assumptions on policy wording :-)

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1 minute ago, Bill E Goat said:

This is the email posted on the NSRC Facebook page sent to members of the Noosa River Sailing Club who have chosen to disaffiliate from YA.  The tone is disgraceful

 

Dear Member

I am writing to you as a current or recent sailing member of Noosa Yacht and Rowing Club to inform you that the Club has chosen to disaffiliate from the sports governing body’s of Yachting Queensland and Australian Sailing. We find this decision very disappointing.

 

What this mean for you as an individual:

You are no longer eligible to participate in any sailing events

You no longer have Australian Sailing Personal Accident insurance If participating at events at NYRC

the racing rules of sailing no longer apply and there is no means to seek redress or appeals to any decision made by the race committee

If you are an accredited Race Official your ability to act as such may be affected

If you are an accredited Instructor or Coach your ability to act as such may be affected

You will no longer have access to your online mySailor log and record of membership, qualifications, etc.

 

Please see attached a letter that has been sent to the Committee of NYRC. This letter further outlines the consequences to the clubs with regards to the sport of sailing as a result of their decision to disaffiliate. Should you feel strongly one way or the other we suggest you take it up with the club committee.

 

Should you wish to be an active member of the sailing community you may need to consider joining another club affiliated to Australian Sailing.

 

To find your closest club please visit this link - https://www.sailing.org.au/club-finder/

 

Kind regards

Ben Callard

Ben CallardRegional Manager ‑ Queenslandt: 07 3393 6788 | m: +614 1705 3015ben.callard@sailing.org.auwww.sailing.org.au
578 Royal Esplanade, Manly, 4179

There goes my participation in the next wooden boat regatta.

well at least according to AS.

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4 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

The coverage is shit, $75k Death & Permanent Disablement, $300 per week loss of income for 52 weeks

https://www.networksteadfast.com.au/industries-and-associations/sailing/personal-injury-australian-sailing-members-insurance/

That a pay rise for a sailing instructor.

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1 minute ago, roon said:

Cheers Lydia, good to know. The wording is in my opinion a little ambiguous....but as you well know, best not to make your own assumptions on policy wording :-)

Sorry should have mentioned. pretty sure Club Marine changed their policy wording to say a race run under an aquatic permit where the aquatic permit sets out the applicable rules ie RRs or Col Regs etc.

Smart solution really.

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39 minutes ago, roon said:

Cheers mate! The issue in question has been dragging on for some years....The letter from Ben has been a great tool for bringing this issue to resolve and for enlightening many sailing members of the club about the situation with AS. I'm dirty because I thought I was affiliated through my membership fees....it appears this hasn't been the case! It also has implications on my vessel insurance with respect to racing.

She's a good club the NYRC....drop in on a Wednesday and come for a sail!

What region is Noosa in regards to the port/starboard rule? I know  one evening offshore from your fair city there was a misunderstanding a few years ago.

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4 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

This is the email posted on the NSRC Facebook page sent to members of the Noosa River Sailing Club who have chosen to disaffiliate from YA.  The tone is disgraceful

 

Dear Member

I am writing to you as a current or recent sailing member of Noosa Yacht and Rowing Club to inform you that the Club has chosen to disaffiliate from the sports governing body’s of Yachting Queensland and Australian Sailing. We find this decision very disappointing.

 

What this mean for you as an individual:

You are no longer eligible to participate in any sailing events

You no longer have Australian Sailing Personal Accident insurance If participating at events at NYRC

the racing rules of sailing no longer apply and there is no means to seek redress or appeals to any decision made by the race committee

If you are an accredited Race Official your ability to act as such may be affected

If you are an accredited Instructor or Coach your ability to act as such may be affected

You will no longer have access to your online mySailor log and record of membership, qualifications, etc.

 

Please see attached a letter that has been sent to the Committee of NYRC. This letter further outlines the consequences to the clubs with regards to the sport of sailing as a result of their decision to disaffiliate. Should you feel strongly one way or the other we suggest you take it up with the club committee.

 

Should you wish to be an active member of the sailing community you may need to consider joining another club affiliated to Australian Sailing.

 

To find your closest club please visit this link - https://www.sailing.org.au/club-finder/

 

Kind regards

Ben Callard

Ben CallardRegional Manager ‑ Queenslandt: 07 3393 6788 | m: +614 1705 3015ben.callard@sailing.org.auwww.sailing.org.au
578 Royal Esplanade, Manly, 4179

Cheers for posting Bill. As a recipient of this email with letter attached, I found the tone factual and succinct. It's definitely made for healthy inter member discussions! Lake Cootharaba was looking good for an increase in membership this year but I'm led to believe a resolution isn't too far away......

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4 hours ago, roon said:

Cheers Lydia, good to know. The wording is in my opinion a little ambiguous....but as you well know, best not to make your own assumptions on policy wording :-)

Ambiguous by design Roon, all the more wiggle room if they decide they are having a bad month and want to reject your claim.. I think you will find Pantaenius policy language a breath of fresh air. Most of my clients are with them now. PM me for a quote.

 

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On 1/31/2020 at 3:20 PM, Rambler said:

I was hoping someone else would start this discussion (pure cowardliness on my part), but I was incredibly disappointed by the speech of the former president of AS reported on the front page of Sailing Anarchy. All about the Olympics, America's Cup and TV reporting of the Olympics. Not a mention of club level sailing. It's like we don't exist. Just a nuisance appendage to sailing; who unfortunately happen to be the overwhelming majority of their members.

 

And if what you guys say about the amendment to RRS46 is correct, really? Haven't they ever been inside a moderately sized yacht club (one without the 'R' prefix) on a race day. How do you think you get new people into sailing except by volunteering to invite into your crew for the day randoms who turn up at the club wanting to find out what sailing is all about. Are they really that divorced from reality? How do we clean out these guys and start again?

Anybody who has run a few successful election campaigns can advise you. Especially if they have been internal party campaigns which would be more like this situation. Read the constitutions of all the relevant bodies, organize your forces and engage. In all likelihood a relative small minority of eligible voters participate at the various organizations / levels so not too hard to stack the votes if you actually have broad support for your ideas. Likely your biggest challenge will be some fine print that limits % of board who change each election or some other change of control obstacle but then you just have to work a few extra cycles.

Written by someone who knows nothing about Australian sailing but has managed some successful campaigns in unrelated entities YMMV.

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3 hours ago, Rambler said:

Yes, the Aussies here need to comment on the post passionately and often.

That would require me to have a Fauxbook account, which I don't, never have and sincerely hope, never will.

Besides I don't give a fuck about Australian Sailing, they do nothing for cruising sailors at all as far as I know. If you racing types don't like what they're doing, vote them out or set up your own organisation with different articles of association.

FKT

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11 hours ago, KC375 said:

Anybody who has run a few successful election campaigns can advise you. Especially if they have been internal party campaigns which would be more like this situation. Read the constitutions of all the relevant bodies, organize your forces and engage. In all likelihood a relative small minority of eligible voters participate at the various organizations / levels so not too hard to stack the votes if you actually have broad support for your ideas. Likely your biggest challenge will be some fine print that limits % of board who change each election or some other change of control obstacle but then you just have to work a few extra cycles.

 

Written by someone who knows nothing about Australian sailing but has managed some successful campaigns in unrelated entities YMMV.

 

You can’t. Australian Sailing only have 7 members they represent- the 7 state and territory Yachting Associations. You can’t change them- it is time to disrupt.

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My small club in Far South Tasmania has maintained its affiliation to AS for a number of years even though we only run one actual event conducted under the RRS, our Easter Regatta. This is our biggest annual revenue raiser from entries, bar and food sales. Plus it has a certain historic value, 160+ years old. Though I bet for the first 130 years no bloody fee was played to anyone.

We've maintained the affiliation for pretty much all the reasons that AS threatened Noosa with: insurance, so boats from affiliated clubs can enter without fear etc, etc.

BUT - if individuals who want to sail maybe once or twice, certainly up to 3 times a year can now do so by buying an affordable Day Pass, how about the option for a private club which wants to run one sailing event a year to be able to purchase a Day Club Pass? Seems more equitable than charging every single member of that club, most who never ever compete or participate in any organised on-water event a fee to support, well, to support what exactly?

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My small club in Far South Tasmania has maintained its affiliation to AS for a number of years even though we only run one actual event conducted under the RRS, our Easter Regatta. This is our biggest annual revenue raiser from entries, bar and food sales. Plus it has a certain historic value, 160+ years old. Though I bet for the first 130 years no bloody fee was played to anyone.

We've maintained the affiliation for pretty much all the reasons that AS threatened Noosa with: insurance, so boats from affiliated clubs can enter without fear etc, etc.

BUT - if individuals who want to sail maybe once or twice, certainly up to 3 times a year can now do so by buying an affordable Day Pass, how about the option for a private club which wants to run one sailing event a year to be able to purchase a Day Club Pass? Seems more equitable than charging every single member of that club, most who never ever compete or participate in any organised on-water event a fee to support, well, to support what exactly?

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1 minute ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Aahhh ffs..............

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So I have read the sailpass blurb on the Australian Sailing Page.

Still does not explain why I will have to pay to take my own family members sailing on my own boat in a Wednesday fun race at a club where I am a full member.

Or how when I sail in the next wooden boat festival race all my crew must be members of a club and registered with SA.

So come on GRS, when I take my family members for say the Exhibition Holiday Wags Race at Manly, do I get a RRS 69 ban for intentional and knowing disregard for RRS 46.

That will get a few people excited.

Or lets say I want to take ten of my staff on a Ladies Skippers Race at WMYC on my own boat, is that say $250.00 for day passes for me to pay as well as the race entry.

And I really love the part on the sail pass page about how it will give me better marketing opportunities.

It is pretty clear that no one that owns their own boat was engaged in the sailpass process.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, (p)Irate said:

My small club in Far South Tasmania has maintained its affiliation to AS for a number of years even though we only run one actual event conducted under the RRS, our Easter Regatta. This is our biggest annual revenue raiser from entries, bar and food sales. Plus it has a certain historic value, 160+ years old. Though I bet for the first 130 years no bloody fee was played to anyone.

We've maintained the affiliation for pretty much all the reasons that AS threatened Noosa with: insurance, so boats from affiliated clubs can enter without fear etc, etc.

BUT - if individuals who want to sail maybe once or twice, certainly up to 3 times a year can now do so by buying an affordable Day Pass, how about the option for a private club which wants to run one sailing event a year to be able to purchase a Day Club Pass? Seems more equitable than charging every single member of that club, most who never ever compete or participate in any organised on-water event a fee to support, well, to support what exactly?

So that club would be the most successful in Australia right now by doubling membership in 12 months.

So no doubt it about the get fucked by banding.

As it runs one four day event a year why can't we get a weekend pass every Easter GRS?

Does not matter really, about 1/2 the competitors are out of the Huon Valley and you got no chance of getting any money out of them!

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19 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Love the real estate blurb.

As moved in to be closer to the sailing community.

 

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2 minutes ago, lydia said:

Love the real estate blurb.

As moved in to be closer to the sailing community.

 

The closest they will appear to be able to get. Lets see.... whats wrong with this picture?

The association tasked with improving sailing in Australia, chooses to move into premises in likely the most expensive real estate in  Australia; when the clubs they represent, are generally struggling to pay the rents on their established premises. And this will somehow improve sailing in Australia? Fucking parasites.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

You can’t. Australian Sailing only have 7 members they represent- the 7 state and territory Yachting Associations. You can’t change them- it is time to disrupt.

Darn

Well as I said, my comment was written by someone who knows nothing about ...

Yes going full on disrupt is an option (maybe the best)...

But having just skimmed the constitution of Yachting Tasmania ...I think my advice might still apply?  I believe 2016 governance initiative probably gave them all similar or the same documents.

My favourite line:

4. Objects and Purposes of the Association:

....

(d) The doing of anything which, in the opinion of the Association, is incidental to or not inconsistent with the forgoing.

 

I bet the association could pretty much argue it is their opinion that anything they want to do is in their opinion incidental to or not inconsistent with....

As I suspected there are some anti takeover provisions notably that it would take two elections cycles to replace the full board. Also limiting scope for action is that prospective members (clubs, sailing associations) must be approved by vote.

Some of the convening of meeting provisions need managing as well.

You’d have to balance the effort of forcing change from within vs. from without. In either case you need a lot of sailors that care enough to be actively part of the change.

If you decided to do the Trojan horse approach you should consider encouraging the formation of many potential membership associations...e.g. break a bunch of existing clubs up into four or five “special” interest clubs who group to share facilities and expenses....thus quintupling your voting power.

If instead you go full on disrupt then plan an active communications and lobbying campaign...even though Australian Sailing’s constitution and governance processes protect it, public pressure can do a lot.

Best of luck.

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What is the mischief that is currently occurring, that this fucking dictatorial nonsense is purportedly intended to address, and how is it expected to be rectified by this bullshit step?

 I plan on totally ignoring this "rule" and going about my sailing as I wish.  If that gives rise to a rule 69 process, I figure by then there will be in the order of 100 rule 69 protests a week, and AS will not be able to withstand the public pressure - they will cease to be recognised as the peak body for sailing in Australia and the fuckwits who currently sponge off the rest of us will fade into ignominy.  

AS does not, cannot and will not, dictate to me when I go sailing, or with whom.  They do not "own" the sport of sailing in Australia, and their puerile threats only debase themselves.

Oh, and AS it looks like you will lose an NRO as well - way to grow the sport!

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11 hours ago, KC375 said:

Darn

 

Well as I said, my comment was written by someone who knows nothing about ...

 

Yes going full on disrupt is an option (maybe the best)...

 

But having just skimmed the constitution of Yachting Tasmania ...I think my advice might still apply?  I believe 2016 governance initiative probably gave them all similar or the same documents.

 

My favourite line:

 

4. Objects and Purposes of the Association:

 

....

 

(d) The doing of anything which, in the opinion of the Association, is incidental to or not inconsistent with the forgoing.

 

 

 

I bet the association could pretty much argue it is their opinion that anything they want to do is in their opinion incidental to or not inconsistent with....

 

As I suspected there are some anti takeover provisions notably that it would take two elections cycles to replace the full board. Also limiting scope for action is that prospective members (clubs, sailing associations) must be approved by vote.

 

Some of the convening of meeting provisions need managing as well.

 

You’d have to balance the effort of forcing change from within vs. from without. In either case you need a lot of sailors that care enough to be actively part of the change.

 

If you decided to do the Trojan horse approach you should consider encouraging the formation of many potential membership associations...e.g. break a bunch of existing clubs up into four or five “special” interest clubs who group to share facilities and expenses....thus quintupling your voting power.

 

If instead you go full on disrupt then plan an active communications and lobbying campaign...even though Australian Sailing’s constitution and governance processes protect it, public pressure can do a lot.

 

Best of luck.

 

I don't think Yachting Tasmania exists anymore .... all of the State entities were collapsed as part of the "one Sailing" initiative and handed their assets etc over to AS, and then wound themselves up.  This is a note I coincidentally received yesterday from AS

"In December 2018, NSW clubs voted to wind up Yachting NSW. The Australian Sailing constitution was amended to allow clubs to become voting members and clubs in NSW are now members of Australian Sailing. A Regional Advisory Committee (RAC) was established to represent NSW clubs, which has replaced the function previously performed by the Yachting New South Wales board.

The current New South Wales Advisory Committee consists of:

·         Richard Hudson (Chairman)

·         Sam Haynes

·         Alister Copley

·         Christian Brook

·         Clare Alexander

You can find the more information about the New South Wales regional advisory committee online here.

As part of the establishment of this the RAC we have allocated a committee member to each club as a key point of contact along with the Club Services team."

 

Some good folks there, but not sure how much they can influence things.... might have to ring our Club's allocated contact!!!

 

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Some how AS have become more important to clubs than the owner members of those clubs.

As I understand it I have to check in my crew online before I go sailing. The comment was this will be a small burden on the owner, made by a non owner flag officer.  GET FUCKED.

All the work, money, time and effort that is done by an owner to get the boat on the start line and we are being forced to do AS bidding for no benefit. The insurance bullshit argument will be rolled out but I have 20 mill indemnity insurance already as part of my insurance.   

This is all to raise the participation numbers of AS so it gets more money from the government each year. 

So many questions so many issues. 

 

 

 

The AS tackers program was born out of Victoria after the importer of optimist designed a training program. AS picked it up and went national with it. That is as much strategy went into it.   

    

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I am confused.

How can AS stop a yacht participating sailing in an event utilising Colregs, which by the way EVERY event where sailin after sundown and before sunrise is supposed to be sailed under, because RRS cannot be enforced.

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2 hours ago, Stanno said:

I don't think Yachting Tasmania exists anymore .... all of the State entities were collapsed as part of the "one Sailing" initiative and handed their assets etc over to AS, and then wound themselves up.  This is a note I coincidentally received yesterday from AS

"In December 2018, NSW clubs voted to wind up Yachting NSW. The Australian Sailing constitution was amended to allow clubs to become voting members and clubs in NSW are now members of Australian Sailing. A Regional Advisory Committee (RAC) was established to represent NSW clubs, which has replaced the function previously performed by the Yachting New South Wales board.

 

The current New South Wales Advisory Committee consists of:

 

·         Richard Hudson (Chairman)

 

·         Sam Haynes

 

·         Alister Copley

 

·         Christian Brook

 

·         Clare Alexander

 

You can find the more information about the New South Wales regional advisory committee online here.

 

As part of the establishment of this the RAC we have allocated a committee member to each club as a key point of contact along with the Club Services team."

 

Some good folks there, but not sure how much they can influence things.... might have to ring our Club's allocated contact!!!

 

OK, @LB 15 was right.

Go full on disruptive.

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3 hours ago, Recidivist said:

What is the mischief that is currently occurring, that this fucking dictatorial nonsense is purportedly intended to address, and how is it expected to be rectified by this bullshit step?

 I plan on totally ignoring this "rule" and going about my sailing as I wish.  If that gives rise to a rule 69 process, I figure by then there will be in the order of 100 rule 69 protests a week, and AS will not be able to withstand the public pressure - they will cease to be recognised as the peak body for sailing in Australia and the fuckwits who currently sponge off the rest of us will fade into ignominy.  

AS does not, cannot and will not, dictate to me when I go sailing, or with whom.  They do not "own" the sport of sailing in Australia, and their puerile threats only debase themselves.

Oh, and AS it looks like you will lose an NRO as well - way to grow the sport!

I'll be standing there next to you R

I am Spartacus

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39 minutes ago, snoopy said:

Some how AS have become more important to clubs than the owner members of those clubs.

As I understand it I have to check in my crew online before I go sailing. The comment was this will be a small burden on the owner, made by a non owner flag officer.  GET FUCKED.

All the work, money, time and effort that is done by an owner to get the boat on the start line and we are being forced to do AS bidding for no benefit. The insurance bullshit argument will be rolled out but I have 20 mill indemnity insurance already as part of my insurance.   

This is all to raise the participation numbers of AS so it gets more money from the government each year. 

So many questions so many issues. 

 

 

 

The AS tackers program was born out of Victoria after the importer of optimist designed a training program. AS picked it up and went national with it. That is as much strategy went into it.   

    

In a nutshell!

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1 hour ago, snoopy said:

Some how AS have become more important to clubs than the owner members of those clubs.

As I understand it I have to check in my crew online before I go sailing. The comment was this will be a small burden on the owner, made by a non owner flag officer.  GET FUCKED.

Just do what everyone else does (or should do) on impertinent forms - fill it out with bullshit.

Fred Bloggs as crew has a nice ring to it. Back when the Sydney Morning Herald was trying to enforce logins, I found that I couldn't be Fred Bloggs as there was already some thousand plus - I had to be FredBloggs1845 or similar.

I anticipate a lot of entertainment from this. Let's see who backs down first.

FKT

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I was on the YT board when all this came out it is good for AS and bad / indifferent to owners / clubs. AS organised itself and the clubs have to fall into line. 

"Club Clusters" is another good one. AS have a list of clubs that are able to provide international and national events and award those events to those clubs as they wish. Now you have clubs clambering over them selves to get these events and seek government funding for these events and the facilities to host them.

What this has created is that the clubs end up hosting events that have no relevance to it or it membership while burning through its resources that could better serve its membership.  

There is a petition going around to keep the sail maker at Royal Geelong because the proposed redevelopment to attract "big events" to the club doesn't include a space for him. AS policies is now influencing the design and construction of the club as well as its culture. 

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On 2/3/2020 at 4:03 PM, LionessRacing said:

The sailing there seems to be even more buggered than elsewhere in Australia. and it's not like it's unreasonably warm or remote as far as I can tell. 

QYA has had interesting things going on as far back as the late 90's.    

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9 minutes ago, snoopy said:

I was on the YT board when all this came out it is good for AS and bad / indifferent to owners / clubs. AS organised itself and the clubs have to fall into line. 

"Club Clusters" is another good one. AS have a list of clubs that are able to provide international and national events and award those events to those clubs as they wish. Now you have clubs clambering over them selves to get these events and seek government funding for these events and the facilities to host them.

What this has created is that the clubs end up hosting events that have no relevance to it or it membership while burning through its resources that could better serve its membership.  

There is a petition going around to keep the sail maker at Royal Geelong because the proposed redevelopment to attract "big events" to the club doesn't include a space for him. AS policies is now influencing the design and construction of the club as well as its culture. 

Why should club members need to get up a petition? Aren't they voting members? TELL the management that they can't do stuff like that.

If you can't muster enough actual (as opposed to muttering in the beer) opposition to vote on these issues, you basically deserve what you get. If the club articles of association are such that your opinions can be safely ignored - shrug. Stop giving them money. Find another club that's more responsive. Start playing the long game by trying to change the articles that perpetuate the control.

This shit is some of the reasons why I'll have nothing to do with yacht clubs.

FKT

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On 2/3/2020 at 8:13 AM, BboySlug said:

Hi all, 

So my insurance company (Nautilus) is more than doubling my insurance premium rate this year. I've had good experiences with Nautilus in the past so I asked them why my rate was doubling. Nautilus said that they have lost their relationship with Australian Sailing which apparently subsidized their insurance policies in the past making them cheap for the quality.

I wrote Australian Sailing and they confirmed what Nautilus said, but didn't say anything about what new insurance company they may be switching to. Does anybody have insider knowledge on what insurance company(s) have relations with AS? If not, can anybody recommend an insurance company for off the beach classes which they've had good experiences with in the past? 

Thanks in advance. 

I've made a few calls to people at the pointy end of racing yacht insurance in Oz and this excuse from Nautilus is complete horseshit. There is no way possible that AS could be subsidising Nautilus unless they were offering something in return like a huge chunk of sponsorship. If they were doing it without a return then AS would be wide open for an anti-competitive lawsuit. In any case Nautilus are no cheaper than anyone else. Generally you will find there is very little difference with insurance premiums amongst the major players, and if there is then someone has either has, or has not, accurately assesed the risk of your particular vessel. It's a pretty simple numbers game. All the major insurers are given very strict guidlines to offer cover by their underwritters so there is very little room left for "special" deals.

Get a quote from Pantaenius or Club. I bet they are within 5% of each other. The devil is in the details, and if you are anything like me you will find the simplicity of the language in the Pantaenius policy a breath of fresh air. It's nice to know exactly where you stand!

Edited by Abbo
spelling!
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At present rule 46 has a prescription that after three races all crew of any race shall also be a club member; and that Australian Sailing was reviewing the requirement.  From 1 January 2021 the Australian Sailing prescription to the rule will require that all crew are members of an affiliated club and registered with Australian Sailing- regardless of the number of races they have competed in.  When publishing the RRS in 2016, Australian Sailing informed competitors (in the rule itself) to note that it was reviewing these requirements and to expect changes to be made requiring that all crew of any race to be members of an affiliated club and registered with Australian Sailing.  Since that time Australian Sailing has made enough changes around database tools that enable the easy registration of clubs’ members, flexible membership and registration systems allowing for short-term or introductory memberships, and we’ve disconnected club’s affiliation fees from their levels of membership.

This is to say:

  1. Advance notice of the change (now approved) has been published for the past four years, and
  2. The systems used for club membership and registration with Australian Sailing are ready for the change, and
  3. This is not a revenue raising exercise. Your clubs’ affiliation fees are not impacted, and
  4. Alternative solutions (ie Crew Club in NSW) will be discontinued.

 

Competitors’ membership of clubs and registration with Australian Sailing has for a long time been a major strategic priority for the sport of sailing. These strategic priorities are completely compatible and in line with the priorities of any given club.  Where your club and Australian Sailing needs your support is in making sure the crew on board your boat have signed up as a member of a club; either using SailPass or their normal membership offerings. This simple check and encouragement are something any and all of you can do. Guide people enjoying this sport to be members of a club and registered with the sport.

For further information, please contact:

Glen Stanaway
Glen.stanaway@sailing.org.au
Direct Phone: 0417 446 727


 

 

 

 

FUCK YOU Australian Yachting.  Both Ways

 

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I hope that in practice most clubs will ignore this new prescription. SailPass does offer three free races, and then $5 per race after that, or $95 per year.

If I want to invite non-sailing family friends or clients I will continue to without registering them. I have never asked a newbie crew whether they are AS members or not.

I believe this is all about AS being able to claim so many more "members" therefore obtaining more money from the Australian Sports Commission (?) and more importantly the AOC. So AS saying it is not about "revenue raising" they are lying.

So don't run races under RRS. RMS (Sydney) does not care whether sailing events are run under Col Regs or RRS in order to qualify for an Aquatic licence. The only hindrance in Sydney Harbour would be to find courses that don't use the AS marks that all clubs pay for, but it could be done.

 I think this new prescription is a step too far, even for the dickwads at AS, and I can only hope the clubs stand up and tell them to take a running jump at a flying fuck.

 

 

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18 hours ago, KC375 said:

Darn

 

Well as I said, my comment was written by someone who knows nothing about ...

 

Yes going full on disrupt is an option (maybe the best)...

 

But having just skimmed the constitution of Yachting Tasmania ...I think my advice might still apply?  I believe 2016 governance initiative probably gave them all similar or the same documents.

 

My favourite line:

 

4. Objects and Purposes of the Association:

 

....

 

(d) The doing of anything which, in the opinion of the Association, is incidental to or not inconsistent with the forgoing.

 

 

 

I bet the association could pretty much argue it is their opinion that anything they want to do is in their opinion incidental to or not inconsistent with....

 

As I suspected there are some anti takeover provisions notably that it would take two elections cycles to replace the full board. Also limiting scope for action is that prospective members (clubs, sailing associations) must be approved by vote.

 

Some of the convening of meeting provisions need managing as well.

 

You’d have to balance the effort of forcing change from within vs. from without. In either case you need a lot of sailors that care enough to be actively part of the change.

 

If you decided to do the Trojan horse approach you should consider encouraging the formation of many potential membership associations...e.g. break a bunch of existing clubs up into four or five “special” interest clubs who group to share facilities and expenses....thus quintupling your voting power.

 

If instead you go full on disrupt then plan an active communications and lobbying campaign...even though Australian Sailing’s constitution and governance processes protect it, public pressure can do a lot.

 

Best of luck.

 

 

7 hours ago, Stanno said:

I don't think Yachting Tasmania exists anymore .... all of the State entities were collapsed as part of the "one Sailing" initiative and handed their assets etc over to AS, and then wound themselves up.  This is a note I coincidentally received yesterday from AS

"In December 2018, NSW clubs voted to wind up Yachting NSW. The Australian Sailing constitution was amended to allow clubs to become voting members and clubs in NSW are now members of Australian Sailing. A Regional Advisory Committee (RAC) was established to represent NSW clubs, which has replaced the function previously performed by the Yachting New South Wales board.

 

The current New South Wales Advisory Committee consists of:

 

·         Richard Hudson (Chairman)

 

·         Sam Haynes

 

·         Alister Copley

 

·         Christian Brook

 

·         Clare Alexander

 

You can find the more information about the New South Wales regional advisory committee online here.

 

As part of the establishment of this the RAC we have allocated a committee member to each club as a key point of contact along with the Club Services team."

 

Some good folks there, but not sure how much they can influence things.... might have to ring our Club's allocated contact!!!

 

So Glen, 

Why not put your name to this post and when are AS and you going to start being open to your members ?

 

AS’s  new headquarters is a disgusting wast of money and just shows how out of touch they are. 

 

Glen, growing Sailing isn’t rocket science and it isn’t a “rap and pillage” of anyone who wants to try Sailing like AS is doing now. Supporting grass root classes and clubs is a great start to growing the sport. Spend more time retaining new members and their families. You grow any fleet from the back 1/3 of the fleet, not the front. 

 

I look at the Optimist fleet as a classic example. Dad get kid Sailing and both dad and kid join the local club, 2 memberships.  Dad  gets pissed off at the politics from both the association and AS only pushing the Olympic path way and the top sailors in the fleet and the family end up leaving the sport altogether. 2 memberships lost. 

 

If you look at Southport Yacht Club and the fleets that are growing ? It’s the OK dinghy and the paper tiger cat. Why, cheap boats to get into, fun racing and plenty of old time fun. The OK dinghy fleet started with 2 or 3 boats and now is a fleet of 12 to 15 boats. Growing fleet and new memberships to the club. Not even a Olympic pathway Boat and very little help from AS or YQ. 

 

Glen, it’s time both AS and you get out of fantasy land. Grow the back half of the fleet and the sport will grow, numbers will increase and more medals and world championships will come as the cream will always rise to the top and get your hands out of the back pocket of the new sailors as it’s a loosing deal for the sport.

 

Pulpit

David Pullin 

 

 

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1 hour ago, pulpit said:

 

So Glen, 

Why not put your name to this post and when are AS and you going to start being open to your members ?

 

AS’s  new headquarters is a disgusting wast of money and just shows how out of touch they are. 

 

Glen, growing Sailing isn’t rocket science and it isn’t a “rap and pillage” of anyone who wants to try Sailing like AS is doing now. Supporting grass root classes and clubs is a great start to growing the sport. Spend more time retaining new members and their families. You grow any fleet from the back 1/3 of the fleet, not the front. 

 

I look at the Optimist fleet as a classic example. Dad get kid Sailing and both dad and kid join the local club, 2 memberships.  Dad  gets pissed off at the politics from both the association and AS only pushing the Olympic path way and the top sailors in the fleet and the family end up leaving the sport altogether. 2 memberships lost. 

 

If you look at Southport Yacht Club and the fleets that are growing ? It’s the OK dinghy and the paper tiger cat. Why, cheap boats to get into, fun racing and plenty of old time fun. The OK dinghy fleet started with 2 or 3 boats and now is a fleet of 12 to 15 boats. Growing fleet and new memberships to the club. Not even a Olympic pathway Boat and very little help from AS or YQ. 

 

Glen, it’s time both AS and you get out of fantasy land. Grow the back half of the fleet and the sport will grow, numbers will increase and more medals and world championships will come as the cream will always rise to the top and get your hands out of the back pocket of the new sailors as it’s a loosing deal for the sport.

 

Pulpit

David Pullin 

 

 

I’m buying you a beer... well said, that man.

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1 hour ago, pulpit said:

 

So Glen, 

Why not put your name to this post and when are AS and you going to start being open to your members ?

 

AS’s  new headquarters is a disgusting wast of money and just shows how out of touch they are. 

 

Glen, growing Sailing isn’t rocket science and it isn’t a “rap and pillage” of anyone who wants to try Sailing like AS is doing now. Supporting grass root classes and clubs is a great start to growing the sport. Spend more time retaining new members and their families. You grow any fleet from the back 1/3 of the fleet, not the front. 

 

I look at the Optimist fleet as a classic example. Dad get kid Sailing and both dad and kid join the local club, 2 memberships.  Dad  gets pissed off at the politics from both the association and AS only pushing the Olympic path way and the top sailors in the fleet and the family end up leaving the sport altogether. 2 memberships lost. 

 

If you look at Southport Yacht Club and the fleets that are growing ? It’s the OK dinghy and the paper tiger cat. Why, cheap boats to get into, fun racing and plenty of old time fun. The OK dinghy fleet started with 2 or 3 boats and now is a fleet of 12 to 15 boats. Growing fleet and new memberships to the club. Not even a Olympic pathway Boat and very little help from AS or YQ. 

 

Glen, it’s time both AS and you get out of fantasy land. Grow the back half of the fleet and the sport will grow, numbers will increase and more medals and world championships will come as the cream will always rise to the top and get your hands out of the back pocket of the new sailors as it’s a loosing deal for the sport.

 

Pulpit

David Pullin 

 

 

Hi Dave

I hope you aren't confusing me with Glen!!

We are still trucking along at Hunters Hill.... doubled the membership of the club since 2018, over 120 under 18's sailing ... largest team at Opti Nats, equal largest NSW 9er team at Nats, 3 Nacra 15's based at the Club, Mirrors still trucking along (3rd and 4th at Nats), boards going well and a new resilience program for kids at risk starting with the local public high school ....oh and OptiChicks is on again at the end of the month!!!

Hope all well...

Chris "Stanno" Stannage, President HHSC

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23 minutes ago, Stanno said:

Hi Dave

I hope you aren't confusing me with Glen!!

We are still trucking along at Hunters Hill.... doubled the membership of the club since 2018, over 120 under 18's sailing ... largest team at Opti Nats, equal largest NSW 9er team at Nats, 3 Nacra 15's based at the Club, Mirrors still trucking along (3rd and 4th at Nats), boards going well and a new resilience program for kids at risk starting with the local public high school ....oh and OptiChicks is on again at the end of the month!!!

Hope all well...

Chris "Stanno" Stannage, President HHSC

What about Windsurfer LT's Stanno? I'm booked in to visit your club towards the end of March for the traveller's tropy. Hope to meet you... :P

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8 hours ago, snoopy said:

Some how AS have become more important to clubs than the owner members of those clubs.

As I understand it I have to check in my crew online before I go sailing. The comment was this will be a small burden on the owner, made by a non owner flag officer.  GET FUCKED.

All the work, money, time and effort that is done by an owner to get the boat on the start line and we are being forced to do AS bidding for no benefit. The insurance bullshit argument will be rolled out but I have 20 mill indemnity insurance already as part of my insurance.   

This is all to raise the participation numbers of AS so it gets more money from the government each year. 

So many questions so many issues. 

 

 

 

The AS tackers program was born out of Victoria after the importer of optimist designed a training program. AS picked it up and went national with it. That is as much strategy went into it.   

    

This

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In QLD there is a club that used to have a sailing charity operating out of it( a member who kindly lent his 800k  each week and  they also used the club boats - with this bringing lots of newbies down each Wednesday’s. Then the operator of the charity was threatened by a past commadore that the club could not continue to support the charity if the operator continued to associate with certain people that they claim were in breach of rule 69. (Note that they never had the balls to actually bring a rule 69 complaint against the people in question)  Shortly after that the members boat was vandalised. And yes the operator of the charity taped the conversation. That club is nothing short of toxic. This is the same club that charges backpackers to sail on members boats on Wednesdays.

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18 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

What about Windsurfer LT's Stanno? I'm booked in to visit your club towards the end of March for the traveller's tropy. Hope to meet you... :P

Well, there is mine ..... and the ratpack of Techno kids keep talking about going "old school" .... I'll be there!!!

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

In QLD there is a club that used to have a sailing charity operating out of it( a member who kindly lent his 800k  each week and  they also used the club boats - with this bringing lots of newbies down each Wednesday’s. Then the operator of the charity was threatened by a past commadore that the club could not continue to support the charity if the operator continued to associate with certain people that they claim were in breach of rule 69. (Note that they never had the balls to actually bring a rule 69 complaint against the people in question)  Shortly after that the members boat was vandalised. And yes the operator of the charity taped the conversation. That club is nothing short of toxic. This is the same club that charges backpackers to sail on members boats on Wednesdays.

shitfull behavior - now i wonder which club that was.....mrs o will be along shortly to be a fuckwit

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8 hours ago, snoopy said:

The AS tackers program was born out of Victoria after the importer of optimist designed a training program. AS picked it up and went national with it. That is as much strategy went into it.   

    

Yeah...and for some more history....I personally registered the name "Tackers" for a program that our little club was running.....and as the owner, I was approached by a mate who was running the Oppys. He explained what they were doing...and I liked it ...so I donated the registration to them. 

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1 hour ago, Jason AUS said:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/sailing-boss-hits-out-over-pulled-600-000-as-olympic-funding-divides-sports-20181129-p50j6j.html

 

Apologies if this was posted previously, but clearly AS has a funding shortfall to make up. But how? However can we make that shortfall up?

 

"...Sorry squire....scratched your record...sorry squire...scratched your record....sorry squire...."      So here we go again....Lympix has hijacked our sport to deliver medals to satisfy political aims....AS does not represent or serve the broader sport. Lots of questions around even why the Australian taxpayer should be expected to subsidize a relatively non-inclusive, high socio-economic group like those involved in elite performance sailing (and I'd also include any winter sport here). Want to save money? Well they could move into a more cost effective admin location...but...The bigger question should be...where should we spend money that best advocates for our constituents? If this means scaling back olympic programs...so be it. Build grass roots and see what happens. And frankly, I doubt there'd be anyone outside of AS that would shed a tear to see funding for Lympix programs slashed....wingeing, self important, bunch of buggers begging for middle class welfare! Rant over...for now! ;-)

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  Quote

 

At present rule 46 has a prescription that after three races all crew of any race shall also be a club member; and that Australian Sailing was reviewing the requirement.  From 1 January 2021 the Australian Sailing prescription to the rule will require that all crew are members of an affiliated club and registered with Australian Sailing- regardless of the number of races they have competed in.  When publishing the RRS in 2016, Australian Sailing informed competitors (in the rule itself) to note that it was reviewing these requirements and to expect changes to be made requiring that all crew of any race to be members of an affiliated club and registered with Australian Sailing.  Since that time Australian Sailing has made enough changes around database tools that enable the easy registration of clubs’ members, flexible membership and registration systems allowing for short-term or introductory memberships, and we’ve disconnected club’s affiliation fees from their levels of membership.

This is to say:

  1. Advance notice of the change (now approved) has been published for the past four years, and
  2. The systems used for club membership and registration with Australian Sailing are ready for the change, and
  3. This is not a revenue raising exercise. Your clubs’ affiliation fees are not impacted, and
  4. Alternative solutions (ie Crew Club in NSW) will be discontinued.

 

Competitors’ membership of clubs and registration with Australian Sailing has for a long time been a major strategic priority for the sport of sailing. These strategic priorities are completely compatible and in line with the priorities of any given club.  Where your club and Australian Sailing needs your support is in making sure the crew on board your boat have signed up as a member of a club; either using SailPass or their normal membership offerings. This simple check and encouragement are something any and all of you can do. Guide people enjoying this sport to be members of a club and registered with the sport.

For further information, please contact:

Glen Stanaway
Glen.stanaway@sailing.org.au
Direct Phone: 0417 446 727

 

 

 

 

AS is using the rules to get me to do the admin so that it can get an eventual financial benefit. The work load has been moved off the clubs and on to the owners, as if we dont have enough to do?   

The clubs and AS should be offering discounts to owners on their fees now that they dont have the burden of administrating this initiative?   13 crew at $200 a year is $2600 every year, IRC is $36 a foot, race entry as well. That is a lot of revenue over time. I recruited the crew, I Provide the vessel, I do all the other work required. Where is the support for owners?

The owners arent members of AS the Clubs are and the clubs interests are being met.... 

 

I dont have a problem with clubs trying to increase members and getting sailors to be signed up, but do it with a value based initiatives, a carrot if you will not with a fucking stick dont burden those who already support the system.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This is not an issue for Clubs and the Club's administrators.  The onus is squarely on the owners as noted in RRS 78.1

78.1 While a boat is racing, her owner and any other person in charge shall ensure that the boat is maintained to comply with her class rules and that her measurement or rating certificate, if any, remains valid. In addition, the boat shall also comply at other times specified in the class rules, the notice of race or the sailing instructions

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1 hour ago, snoopy said:

  Quote

 

At present rule 46 has a prescription that after three races all crew of any race shall also be a club member; and that Australian Sailing was reviewing the requirement.  From 1 January 2021 the Australian Sailing prescription to the rule will require that all crew are members of an affiliated club and registered with Australian Sailing- regardless of the number of races they have competed in.  When publishing the RRS in 2016, Australian Sailing informed competitors (in the rule itself) to note that it was reviewing these requirements and to expect changes to be made requiring that all crew of any race to be members of an affiliated club and registered with Australian Sailing.  Since that time Australian Sailing has made enough changes around database tools that enable the easy registration of clubs’ members, flexible membership and registration systems allowing for short-term or introductory memberships, and we’ve disconnected club’s affiliation fees from their levels of membership.

This is to say:

  1. Advance notice of the change (now approved) has been published for the past four years, and
  2. The systems used for club membership and registration with Australian Sailing are ready for the change, and
  3. This is not a revenue raising exercise. Your clubs’ affiliation fees are not impacted, and
  4. Alternative solutions (ie Crew Club in NSW) will be discontinued.

 

Competitors’ membership of clubs and registration with Australian Sailing has for a long time been a major strategic priority for the sport of sailing. These strategic priorities are completely compatible and in line with the priorities of any given club.  Where your club and Australian Sailing needs your support is in making sure the crew on board your boat have signed up as a member of a club; either using SailPass or their normal membership offerings. This simple check and encouragement are something any and all of you can do. Guide people enjoying this sport to be members of a club and registered with the sport.

For further information, please contact:

Glen Stanaway
Glen.stanaway@sailing.org.au
Direct Phone: 0417 446 727

 

 

 

 

AS is using the rules to get me to do the admin so that it can get an eventual financial benefit. The work load has been moved off the clubs and on to the owners, as if we dont have enough to do?   

The clubs and AS should be offering discounts to owners on their fees now that they dont have the burden of administrating this initiative?   13 crew at $200 a year is $2600 every year, IRC is $36 a foot, race entry as well. That is a lot of revenue over time. I recruited the crew, I Provide the vessel, I do all the other work required. Where is the support for owners?

The owners arent members of AS the Clubs are and the clubs interests are being met.... 

 

I dont have a problem with clubs trying to increase members and getting sailors to be signed up, but do it with a value based initiatives, a carrot if you will not with a fucking stick dont burden those who already support the system.   

Clubs should offer discounts to owners, but only after AS has reduced their association fee. :)

 

The whole rule 46 is just total BS....

It should be 1000000% up to individual clubs as to whether crew needs day passes, not those in Ass Sucking. Let the clubs decide how best to encourage people to become members. 

 

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I note on Seabreeze it seems some more information on the system has become available in the following post from Tamble...

OK, I've received some extra information on this which, indirectly comes from a club rep of AS, as follows-
"Sail Pass" is the new mechanism AS have rolled out to register drop in/day sailors.
It is free.
The drop in sailor/first timers register themselves on their smart phone, ie, once set up, not an admin burden for the club.
The club can determine how many times a sailor can use "Sail Pass" before requiring membership.
The club can determine if it wants to apply a fee for the day pass. (fee goes to the club, not AS)
The day sailors do not impact club membership numbers / affiliation level fees.
It ensures the club is covered if anything goes wrong, and who that person is, in the case of drop in backpackers for example, we often don't know much more than the first name and it's 'welcome aboard" no address/DOB/contact details etc.

If all this is correct, it does moderate things a bit; especially the bit about it being a self service mobile phone App (as long as someone at the club doesn't need to spend half an hour showing the drop in how to use it).

But I do wonder, when this issue has been running hot on various forums (including the AS FB page) why the extra detail is only now coming to light and through a closed one on one meeting at that (although I have permission to reproduce). You would think AS would be splashing this reply everywhere to take the sting out of the debate.

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34 minutes ago, trt131 said:

This is not an issue for Clubs and the Club's administrators.  The onus is squarely on the owners as noted in RRS 78.1

78.1 While a boat is racing, her owner and any other person in charge shall ensure that the boat is maintained to comply with her class rules and that her measurement or rating certificate, if any, remains valid. In addition, the boat shall also comply at other times specified in the class rules, the notice of race or the sailing instructions

Agreed. However the authorities are CHANGING the rules and using the system to enforce the change.

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1 hour ago, Rambler said:

I note on Seabreeze it seems some more information on the system has become available in the following post from Tamble...

OK, I've received some extra information on this which, indirectly comes from a club rep of AS, as follows-
"Sail Pass" is the new mechanism AS have rolled out to register drop in/day sailors.
It is free.
The drop in sailor/first timers register themselves on their smart phone, ie, once set up, not an admin burden for the club.
The club can determine how many times a sailor can use "Sail Pass" before requiring membership.
The club can determine if it wants to apply a fee for the day pass. (fee goes to the club, not AS)
The day sailors do not impact club membership numbers / affiliation level fees.
It ensures the club is covered if anything goes wrong, and who that person is, in the case of drop in backpackers for example, we often don't know much more than the first name and it's 'welcome aboard" no address/DOB/contact details etc.

If all this is correct, it does moderate things a bit; especially the bit about it being a self service mobile phone App (as long as someone at the club doesn't need to spend half an hour showing the drop in how to use it).

But I do wonder, when this issue has been running hot on various forums (including the AS FB page) why the extra detail is only now coming to light and through a closed one on one meeting at that (although I have permission to reproduce). You would think AS would be splashing this reply everywhere to take the sting out of the debate.

Now there is the real point, "if all this is correct".  AS running a great disinformation campaign.

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1 hour ago, DtM said:

Shirley the SI's could amend rule 46 so that it does not apply.

DtM,

It is a AS Prescription to the Rule and prescriptions cannot be changed

I understood the Day Pass thing is being phased out.  I could be wrong though.

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