Jump to content

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Many of us were. Todays young hero's have never spiked a wire brace at the end of the pole half pissed with a burning ring. They are a bunch of poofs.

Great days!

HARRUMPPFFFFFF!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

So what's wrong with an Opti kid being awarded the Rolex Male athlete of the Year?  Here's what  Shirley Robertson had to say: "Marco is undoubtedly a great talent, and I'm sure in time we will s

It's strange where one can gain motivation, sometimes in the unlikeliest of places. Mrs Octopus, stumbled a bit and has misrepresented the facts. Curious by comparison just appears to be  misinformed,

That's an awesome set of rose-coloured glasses you've got on! Yes, I prefer the discourse be public as other anarchists are interested also in the discussion.  You must be puzzled by the disconne

Posted Images

3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I am not since retiring. And I am doing the delivery from Airlie to Hammo. I pull my weight. Are you in for Airlie?

Indeed, looking forward to it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/11/2021 at 9:46 AM, Recidivist said:

This is just fucking ridiculous - no surprises then that AS is involved!

5 hours motoring in bad weather is going to get you precisely nofuckingwere.  But in a diesel powered boat that runs out of fuel, another boat can assist by approaching close enough to throw a line and use that to transfer a jerrycan of juice.  How the fuck do you do the equivalent with an electric drive?

Have any of these useless cunts ever been in a storm at sea?

I can only assume that MA is building a new boat with electric drive ...

If we all just work 2Gev4.... :-D

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I am not since retiring. And I am doing the delivery from Airlie to Hammo. I pull my weight. Are you in for Airlie?

How selfless!

Well done you, claiming an easy daysail reach amongst tropical islands as a delivery. Hey, it's not like you would have had to take a boat to get to the Island anyway.

Hang on, yes it is. 

Forget hiding behind flinders with fuck all to do while the rum runs out. Do the hard yards from Airlie to Hammo instead. Taking one for the team.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I am not since retiring. And I am doing the delivery from Airlie to Hammo. I pull my weight. Are you in for Airlie?

Really pleased to see you adjusting your deliveries to your age mate.

Watch out for the charters, and if you want a quiet anchorage, Cid Harbour is my recommendation, the tourists apparently think that sharks board boats and stay away!  Quiet as and it's a half way rest up for you.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

The CYCA has killed the 2 handed aspect of "Aussie club/ocean racers" thread.

i think it was the IOC that has taken the heat out of the Two-Handed scene.  I am sure a lot of Two-Handers had visions of Olympic glory.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, random. said:

Really pleased to see you adjusting your deliveries to your age mate.

Watch out for the charters, and if you want a quiet anchorage, Cid Harbour is my recommendation, the tourists apparently think that sharks board boats and stay away!  Quiet as and it's a half way rest up for you.

Where T.F is Cid Harbour?   I mean, i grew up halfway between brisbane and hammo, thought I had sailed to most places on that strip of coast.  Never heard of Cid Harbour.

Gladstone or Keppel would be about half way.   A few sharks, and less crocs but just as many box jellies as Airlie...

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Spoonie said:

Where T.F is Cid Harbour?   I mean, i grew up halfway between brisbane and hammo, thought I had sailed to most places on that strip of coast.  Never heard of Cid Harbour.

Gladstone or Keppel would be about half way.   A few sharks, and less crocs but just as many box jellies as Airlie...

Hahahaaa

Read his post.  He's transiting between Airlie and Hammo.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I am not since retiring. And I am doing the delivery from Airlie to Hammo. I pull my weight. Are you in for Airlie?

LB,

This is just another reason that you won your first Nobel Peace Prize for sailing and world peace. 

 

All you need now is GRS to nominate you for a knighthood and a AM.

 

May I ask what boat your delivering ?

Pulpit

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I am not since retiring. And I am doing the delivery from Airlie to Hammo. I pull my weight. Are you in for Airlie?

I'm not sure I want a visual of what weight you apparently pull LB - but A2H is a voyage not to treat with disdain. You will require at least 12 beers - take a slab in case you silly cunts go against the tide

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Ah yes these young people to day. Back in the day we would sail through a gale in our taft plastic jackets, eat the homing pigeons and take turns to roger the bow boy in the forepeak after a few tots of rum.

But will the young people today listen to you?

Noooooooooooooooooooooo Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

I thought it was “Roger the Cabin Boy?”
 

At least, he said his name was Roger....

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, trt131 said:

i think it was the IOC that has taken the heat out of the Two-Handed scene.  I am sure a lot of Two-Handers had visions of Olympic glory.

The CYCA not allowing 2h go for the Tatts, under well accepted 2h rules, because of big boat owners lobbying will have dampened interest. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Se7en said:

How selfless!

Well done you, claiming an easy daysail reach amongst tropical islands as a delivery. Hey, it's not like you would have had to take a boat to get to the Island anyway.

Hang on, yes it is. 

Forget hiding behind flinders with fuck all to do while the rum runs out. Do the hard yards from Airlie to Hammo instead. Taking one for the team.

I doubt we will be reaching. We will just motoring - the owner behind the wheel and the rest of us in the rack enjoying our force 10 hangovers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, pulpit said:

LB,

This is just another reason that you won your first Nobel Peace Prize for sailing and world peace. 

 

All you need now is GRS to nominate you for a knighthood and a AM.

 

May I ask what boat your delivering ?

Pulpit

X 41 Matrix. The Ox won't be with us this year so we can drink during the races. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

That's why X's have 2 fridges,  one for the drinks, & another one for the drinks!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

CYCA should read this - or maybe Rolex should tell the CYCA!!

Two-Handed growth for Fastnet Race

Published on July 19th, 2021 

 

While the International Olympic Committee denied the Mixed Offshore Keelboat event for the Paris 2024 Games, interest remains high on this segment of the sport, with 91 duos among the 400+ entrants set to start the 2021 Rolex Fastnet Race on August 8.

With 64 entrants in 2019, the 2021 race has moved the finish line from Plymouth, UK to Cherbourg, France, extending these shorthanded sailors from 608 to 695 nm and crossing the English Channel … real gets realer.

The 2013 race was a golden edition for the father and son duo, Pascal and Alexis Loison, racing JPK 1010 Night and Day to overall victory. Alexis Loison’s success continued in 2019 with JPK 1030 Léon. Racing with the boat’s builder Jean Pierre Kelbert, Léon was the winner of IRC Three and IRC Two-Handed.

Léon was leading the Two-Handed Class by 17 minutes at the Fastnet Rock but won the class by nearly five hours by the finish. “After the Rock we had strong reaching conditions with big seas,” recalls Alexis Loison. “With the A5 spinnaker up we were surfing at 19 knots and by the time we reached the Scilly Isles we were with IRC One!”

Scuttlebutt-Banner-Ad-TC.png

For the 2021 edition, Alexis will race Léon with a rising star. Guillaume Pirouelle has excelled in the 470 Class, won the Tour de France à la voile and has been selected to skipper Region Normandie in the Figaro Class. Should the pair taste success in this year’s race, the two Normans will undoubtedly receive a hero’s welcome in Alexis’ home port of Cherbourg.

“We don’t think about the finish; all of our effort is put into preparing Léon for the race,” continued Alex. “The competition in the Two-Handed Class is very strong from the British Sun Fast teams and like Léon, they will be very fast in strong reaching conditions.”

A new Two-Handed pairing this year and proven race winners are James Harayda and Dee Caffari racing Sun Fast 3300 Gentoo. Dee has vast offshore experience, including the Volvo Ocean Race, six Round the World races, the Vendée Globe, and was the first woman to sail solo, non-stop around the world in both directions.

James competed in 2019 on Gallivanter and is looking forward to the new course and tactical decisions that come with it. “I love the race for the adventure, excitement and challenge and am looking forward to the new finish destination of Cherbourg,” said Harayda.

Henry Bomby and Shirley Robertson will be racing Sun Fast 3300 Swell in the Rolex Fastnet Race. Henry was second in the Two-Handed Class in 2019, racing Fastrak XI with Hannah Diamond. Four times Figaro sailor Henry Bomby also competed in the last Volvo Ocean Race and this will be his fifth Rolex Fastnet Race. Shirley Robertson was the first British woman to claim consecutive gold medals in the Olympics. This will be Shirley’s third race, but she is under no illusion that it will be a very different experience, racing doublehanded in the Rolex Fastnet Race for the first time.

2015 Two-Handed winners Kelvin Rawlings and Stuart Childerley will be racing Kelvin’s Sun Fast 3300 Aries. Kelvin is an amateur sailor with decades of big boat racing success. Stuart is a two-time Etchells World Champion and double-Olympian. Stuart will be racing after returning from the Tokyo Games where he is Race Officer for the Finn Class. The Aries crew has a combined age of 126 years.

Earlier in the 2021 season, Aries put in a winning performance beating both Bellino and Gentoo. “It’s all down to Stuart Childerley, I am only the labourer on the bow!” joked Rawlings. “Our aim is to win by sailing as best and as hard as we can. I enjoy every second of it.”

Veteran racer Alex Bennett will be racing Two-Handed with fellow pro-sailor, Conrad Humphreys in his 1984 Swan 46 Ginny B. The British teams accolades run off the page with Bennett excelling in the Mini Transat and Class40 arena, whilst Humphreys’ success includes winning skipper in the BT Global Challenge and completing the Vendée Globe.

“The challenge is always bigger when you go shorthanded and it offers the greatest challenge over this kind of course,” says Bennett, who is in awe of the IRC Two-Handed fleet. “It is huge – like the Mini Transat fleet in terms of numbers.” Bennett first sailed the Rolex Fastnet Race in 1995, when, aged 19, he led the Fastnet Youth Challenge to second place in class aboard a Sigma 36.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mccroc said:

CYCA should read this - or maybe Rolex should tell the CYCA!!

Two-Handed growth for Fastnet Race

Published on July 19th, 2021 

 

While the International Olympic Committee denied the Mixed Offshore Keelboat event for the Paris 2024 Games, interest remains high on this segment of the sport, with 91 duos among the 400+ entrants set to start the 2021 Rolex Fastnet Race on August 8.

With 64 entrants in 2019, the 2021 race has moved the finish line from Plymouth, UK to Cherbourg, France, extending these shorthanded sailors from 608 to 695 nm and crossing the English Channel … real gets realer.

The 2013 race was a golden edition for the father and son duo, Pascal and Alexis Loison, racing JPK 1010 Night and Day to overall victory. Alexis Loison’s success continued in 2019 with JPK 1030 Léon. Racing with the boat’s builder Jean Pierre Kelbert, Léon was the winner of IRC Three and IRC Two-Handed.

Léon was leading the Two-Handed Class by 17 minutes at the Fastnet Rock but won the class by nearly five hours by the finish. “After the Rock we had strong reaching conditions with big seas,” recalls Alexis Loison. “With the A5 spinnaker up we were surfing at 19 knots and by the time we reached the Scilly Isles we were with IRC One!”

Scuttlebutt-Banner-Ad-TC.png

For the 2021 edition, Alexis will race Léon with a rising star. Guillaume Pirouelle has excelled in the 470 Class, won the Tour de France à la voile and has been selected to skipper Region Normandie in the Figaro Class. Should the pair taste success in this year’s race, the two Normans will undoubtedly receive a hero’s welcome in Alexis’ home port of Cherbourg.

“We don’t think about the finish; all of our effort is put into preparing Léon for the race,” continued Alex. “The competition in the Two-Handed Class is very strong from the British Sun Fast teams and like Léon, they will be very fast in strong reaching conditions.”

A new Two-Handed pairing this year and proven race winners are James Harayda and Dee Caffari racing Sun Fast 3300 Gentoo. Dee has vast offshore experience, including the Volvo Ocean Race, six Round the World races, the Vendée Globe, and was the first woman to sail solo, non-stop around the world in both directions.

James competed in 2019 on Gallivanter and is looking forward to the new course and tactical decisions that come with it. “I love the race for the adventure, excitement and challenge and am looking forward to the new finish destination of Cherbourg,” said Harayda.

Henry Bomby and Shirley Robertson will be racing Sun Fast 3300 Swell in the Rolex Fastnet Race. Henry was second in the Two-Handed Class in 2019, racing Fastrak XI with Hannah Diamond. Four times Figaro sailor Henry Bomby also competed in the last Volvo Ocean Race and this will be his fifth Rolex Fastnet Race. Shirley Robertson was the first British woman to claim consecutive gold medals in the Olympics. This will be Shirley’s third race, but she is under no illusion that it will be a very different experience, racing doublehanded in the Rolex Fastnet Race for the first time.

2015 Two-Handed winners Kelvin Rawlings and Stuart Childerley will be racing Kelvin’s Sun Fast 3300 Aries. Kelvin is an amateur sailor with decades of big boat racing success. Stuart is a two-time Etchells World Champion and double-Olympian. Stuart will be racing after returning from the Tokyo Games where he is Race Officer for the Finn Class. The Aries crew has a combined age of 126 years.

Earlier in the 2021 season, Aries put in a winning performance beating both Bellino and Gentoo. “It’s all down to Stuart Childerley, I am only the labourer on the bow!” joked Rawlings. “Our aim is to win by sailing as best and as hard as we can. I enjoy every second of it.”

Veteran racer Alex Bennett will be racing Two-Handed with fellow pro-sailor, Conrad Humphreys in his 1984 Swan 46 Ginny B. The British teams accolades run off the page with Bennett excelling in the Mini Transat and Class40 arena, whilst Humphreys’ success includes winning skipper in the BT Global Challenge and completing the Vendée Globe.

“The challenge is always bigger when you go shorthanded and it offers the greatest challenge over this kind of course,” says Bennett, who is in awe of the IRC Two-Handed fleet. “It is huge – like the Mini Transat fleet in terms of numbers.” Bennett first sailed the Rolex Fastnet Race in 1995, when, aged 19, he led the Fastnet Youth Challenge to second place in class aboard a Sigma 36.”

I think the problem is that the CYCA ARE  aware of the above.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Nah, this two handed shit will never catch on, its just a fad

And the best sailors in the world like Matt Allen (who?) wouldn't lower themselves to sail on the same level as Shirley Robertson. What has she ever done?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

I think the problem is that the CYCA ARE  aware of the above.

Those self-interested, status-quo preserving cunts have their heads so far up their arseholes that they have shit on their shoulders. Change is gonna come as it has for the rest of the sailing world but they will stubbornly resist it until the bitter end. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

So how long before all the industry insiders and bloodsucking pros get there hands into the 2 handed owners pockets and fuck it for everyone?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rawhide said:

So how long before all the industry insiders and bloodsucking pros get there hands into the 2 handed owners pockets and fuck it for everyone?

What time is it now?

T'was ever thus.....!

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rawhide said:

So how long before all the industry insiders and bloodsucking pros get there hands into the 2 handed owners pockets and fuck it for everyone?

They're trying already. Olympic change may slow them down, but unfortunately people are seeing a "market" rather than seeing a side of the sport that has never developed in Sydney due to the CYCA's  efforts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Rawhide said:

So how long before all the industry insiders and bloodsucking pros get there hands into the 2 handed owners pockets and fuck it for everyone?

The blood sucking pro’s will be fighting it all the way. A boat with a spot for one pro only, not something they will support. Unless they can find an owner willing to just fund it, then there are still only two spots. 

Plus it’s hard to point the finger elsewhere when there is just you and the owner to chose from. :lol:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Gissie said:

The blood sucking pro’s will be fighting it all the way. A boat with a spot for one pro only, not something they will support. Unless they can find an owner willing to just fund it, then there are still only two spots. 

Plus it’s hard to point the finger elsewhere when there is just you and the owner to chose from. :lol:

Wasn't ken read pushing some 2 handed sailing recently.

It has already started.

A pity ws couldn't get their shit together

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, huwp said:

Wasn't ken read pushing some 2 handed sailing recently.

It has already started.

A pity ws couldn't get their shit together

I think the point a few of us are making is that Ken Read and a whole pile of professionals getting into double handing and setting the agenda based on Olympics and/or other high profile events does not necessarily help anyone but themselves, and in a way could actually discourage others that don't have sponsorship from taking it up.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, mccroc said:

I think the point a few of us are making is that Ken Read and a whole pile of professionals getting into double handing and setting the agenda based on Olympics and/or other high profile events does not necessarily help anyone but themselves, and in a way could actually discourage others that don't have sponsorship from taking it up.

 

In which way would you rather never win the Tattersall Cup, as an ineligible 2H racer or as a 2H racer outgunned by pros racing with the latest and greatest?

At least with the 2nd option you have a chance, even if is a bit like the chance you have at winning the Tatts $20m powerball draw.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Gissie said:

The blood sucking pro’s will be fighting it all the way. A boat with a spot for one pro only, not something they will support. Unless they can find an owner willing to just fund it, then there are still only two spots. 

Plus it’s hard to point the finger elsewhere when there is just you and the owner to chose from. :lol:

You’ve got it all backwards - imagine a program where your minimum pro quota is 50% ?

 

Free hotel rooms and flights for all!

 

Just don’t ask me who delivers the boat home...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I also got an interesting email from Australian Sailing today telling me which yacht clubs in Sydney I can gather at to watch some Olympic sailing.

 

Which would be great. If we weren’t in a fucking lockdown. And those clubs weren’t closed.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Jason AUS said:

I also got an interesting email from Australian Sailing today telling me which yacht clubs in Sydney I can gather at to watch some Olympic sailing.

 

Which would be great. If we weren’t in a fucking lockdown. And those clubs weren’t closed.

You missed the (small) qualifier

*Clubs currently under Covid state restrictions/lockdown. All sites across the country will only proceed if it is safe to do so, pending COVID restrictions across that State or Territory at the time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BoatSlut said:

You missed the (small) qualifier

*Clubs currently under Covid state restrictions/lockdown. All sites across the country will only proceed if it is safe to do so, pending COVID restrictions across that State or Territory at the time.

Which isn’t going to be any time in the next month for Sydney. So the email is a pointless “hurry up and wait” exercise for someone.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jason AUS said:

Which isn’t going to be any time in the next month for Sydney. So the email is a pointless “hurry up and wait” exercise for someone.

Sounds like marketing spin of a product launch.

but that would be cynical.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/15/2021 at 3:03 PM, Recidivist said:

Thanks Glen, I appreciate that you "reached out" as they say.

The MA comment was apropos his  - shall we say, "apparent influence" within AS.  How's the MH thing going?

I have put my name and details out publicly here in the past, so that doesn't worry me, except that MA IS in a position to cause harm to someone from my family, so I'll lay low ATM.  The MH thing indicates that he has a propensity to be spite driven.  That said, I doubt it would take much to work it out.

Probably nearly 20 years ago I attended several AYF (as it was) meetings as a delegate.  I had a particular interest in youth sailing and a new manager of that area had recently been appointed.  This person never had a report prepared to circulate, and repeatedly gave verbal reports as to how the person was "progressing" with drafting a policy (I was pretty sure a policy DID exist before this person was appointed, but they wanted their name on a shiny new one).  As far as I saw, the person never did an actual thing for youth sailing or youth sailors. I was very disillusioned by this.  I'm not sure the policy was ever completed.

I am not anti-Olympics at all, and frequently accommodated Olympic hopefuls and thoroughly enjoyed their enthusiasm and skills.  At one national regatta, I bumped into "the medal maker" - I actually repaired his fibreglass runabout when it was sinking beneath him.  A ruder, more self-important and abrasive person would be hard to find. And he gave not an iota of time to any sailor who was not part of "his team" (unlike some other coaches who actually encouraged young sailors wherever they were from). No wonder so many people complain that AS is only about the Olympics.

Since those days, I have watched the Australian body consolidate it's own position by eradicating the State bodies and removing direct membership (and say) of the sailors that the State bodies represented.  Further consolidation has given me the distinct impression that AS staff were interested primarily in ensuring funding for their own positions rather than caring about the sailors.

The stupid Sailpass scheme further indicates to me that AS cares nothing for the actual sailors, and attempts to justify its existence by arrogantly wandering outside its remit.

Now this latest boneheaded proposal (the 5 hours endurance thing) just seals the coffin that contains the corpse of a once relevant organisation.  AS is dead to me, which probably doesn't matter much as I'm now too old and broken for competitive sailing anymore, and my involvement is in a volunteer role.

I would like to see the peak body turn itself around, but the announcement of the "Maxi Championships" shows pretty clearly where AS sees that it's interests lie, and it's not with the bulk of competitive sailors in this country. See McCroc's post above.

That's enough from me for now.  Over to you ...

 

 

 

 

Hey @grs , you asked, I answered. It would be polite for you to address the response …

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/25/2021 at 10:12 AM, Recidivist said:

Hey @grs , you asked, I answered. It would be polite for you to address the response …

I did ask and you explained your thinking, thank you. I didn't realise we were getting into a public discourse here though. I guess we can agree to disagree. I see the AYF evolving to YA and now AS as being an exceptionally well run sport in AUS, and a great contributor on the international stage with World Sailing. We are now properly structured as a company with one of Australian sport's best constitutions, we have a great board and relationships with (constitutional) members are ace, staff know their purpose and approach it professionally, we're in a financially sound position with responsible budgeting, clubs have access to what they need and are supported, we have helped thousands of people become coaches, instructors or race officials, safety is on point. Learn to sail programs are there. Online website, entry and membership database services are readily available. Assisting clubs and classes with grants and government advocacy. Getting major sailing events into AUS. And more policy positions, such as the change to rule 46 and SailPass, are developed in consultation with clubs than what the internet would like to believe. I'm sorry you've had a couple of bad experiences, but the organisation has come a long way over the last 20 years. Far from dismal performance me thinks, but we don't have to agree.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, grs said:

 And more policy positions, such as the change to rule 46 and SailPass, are developed in consultation with clubs than what the internet would like to believe. I'm sorry you've had a couple of bad experiences, but the organisation has come a long way over the last 20 years. Far from dismal performance me thinks, but we don't have to agree.

I normally stay out of this forum discussions about AS. I have, shall we say, reservations about AS and its precursors based on experience over the years (and since its over more than 20 years, maybe some is outside your parameters). But I try and live and let live if they don't impact too adversly on my sailing.

But I might chip in on the consultation with clubs bit. Having sat in on the rule 46/ Sailpass 'consultation' with our club it seemed to work much the same way as the 'consultations' that took place 20 years ago as whatever was then AS tore apart club based learn to sail programs as they then were (my view and experience of whch is recorded elsewhere on these forums). The outcome was always a fait accompli. They were there to persuade if they could and absorb the heat if they couldn't - nobly or with obvious annoyance, depending on the AS representatives concerned. But it wasn't really a consulatation.

Now my sailing life has always been with small clubs - which I've always put a lot of effort into making bigger ones by bringing new people to sailing, which is why AS activities have impacted significantly, and rarely (actually never) positively on what I do. Maybe there are real consulatations with a few big clubs, but I just have never seen true consulataion occurring at the more predestrian level. Nor have I seen AS take the feedback from the meetings to try and smooth and make easier the burdens they impose on the small clubs.  Just one preson's experience.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, grs said:

I did ask and you explained your thinking, thank you. I didn't realise we were getting into a public discourse here though. I guess we can agree to disagree. I see the AYF evolving to YA and now AS as being an exceptionally well run sport in AUS, and a great contributor on the international stage with World Sailing. We are now properly structured as a company with one of Australian sport's best constitutions, we have a great board and relationships with (constitutional) members are ace, staff know their purpose and approach it professionally, we're in a financially sound position with responsible budgeting, clubs have access to what they need and are supported, we have helped thousands of people become coaches, instructors or race officials, safety is on point. Learn to sail programs are there. Online website, entry and membership database services are readily available. Assisting clubs and classes with grants and government advocacy. Getting major sailing events into AUS. And more policy positions, such as the change to rule 46 and SailPass, are developed in consultation with clubs than what the internet would like to believe. I'm sorry you've had a couple of bad experiences, but the organisation has come a long way over the last 20 years. Far from dismal performance me thinks, but we don't have to agree.

That has got to go to the front page!

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, grs said:

I did ask and you explained your thinking, thank you. I didn't realise we were getting into a public discourse here though. I guess we can agree to disagree. I see the AYF evolving to YA and now AS as being an exceptionally well run sport in AUS, and a great contributor on the international stage with World Sailing. We are now properly structured as a company with one of Australian sport's best constitutions, we have a great board and relationships with (constitutional) members are ace, staff know their purpose and approach it professionally, we're in a financially sound position with responsible budgeting, clubs have access to what they need and are supported, we have helped thousands of people become coaches, instructors or race officials, safety is on point. Learn to sail programs are there. Online website, entry and membership database services are readily available. Assisting clubs and classes with grants and government advocacy. Getting major sailing events into AUS. And more policy positions, such as the change to rule 46 and SailPass, are developed in consultation with clubs than what the internet would like to believe. I'm sorry you've had a couple of bad experiences, but the organisation has come a long way over the last 20 years. Far from dismal performance me thinks, but we don't have to agree.

That is supposed to be in purple Glen

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, grs said:

I did ask and you explained your thinking, thank you. I didn't realise we were getting into a public discourse here though. I guess we can agree to disagree. I see the AYF evolving to YA and now AS as being an exceptionally well run sport in AUS, and a great contributor on the international stage with World Sailing. We are now properly structured as a company with one of Australian sport's best constitutions, we have a great board and relationships with (constitutional) members are ace, staff know their purpose and approach it professionally, we're in a financially sound position with responsible budgeting, clubs have access to what they need and are supported, we have helped thousands of people become coaches, instructors or race officials, safety is on point. Learn to sail programs are there. Online website, entry and membership database services are readily available. Assisting clubs and classes with grants and government advocacy. Getting major sailing events into AUS. And more policy positions, such as the change to rule 46 and SailPass, are developed in consultation with clubs than what the internet would like to believe. I'm sorry you've had a couple of bad experiences, but the organisation has come a long way over the last 20 years. Far from dismal performance me thinks, but we don't have to agree.

That's an awesome set of rose-coloured glasses you've got on!

Yes, I prefer the discourse be public as other anarchists are interested also in the discussion.  You must be puzzled by the disconnect between your insider view and the almost universal dissatisfaction with AS expressed by posters here.

How can you say "safety is on point" while promoting 5 hours of motoring endurance "away from danger"?

And while "helping thousands of people become coaches, instructors or race officials" sounds laudable, an alternative view is that AS have created an income stream for themselves running a licensing racket where people who already have the skills are required to be accredited in order that they can volunteer their time running events for their friends.  And I think I've expressed my views on the "prescription" that purports to limit who I can take on my boat!

So no - we don't agree.  I adhere to the view that AS is a self-serving organisation that is interested only in the top end of the sport because that's where the money is, and cares not for the little people who make up the bulk of the competitors at the many little clubs around the country.

 

 

  • Like 12
Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^^^^^^

Exactly.

My club voted against this lot for 15 years.  The issue was raised whenever we had some important issue to discuss, a way of bogging down the meetings long enough to cause dry throats and a rush for the bar.

Some fool must have decided that it looked like a good idea.

An efficient parasite does not kill its host.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, harrygee said:

^^^^^^^^

Exactly.

My club voted against this lot for 15 years.  The issue was raised whenever we had some important issue to discuss, a way of bogging down the meetings long enough to cause dry throats and a rush for the bar.

Some fool must have decided that it looked like a good idea.

An efficient parasite does not kill its host.

You are from Tasmania, they also took all your money.

And when we asked for some of the Tasmanian money to rebuild a Tasmanian clubhouse burnt down by an arsonist , we were offered a loan at rates a mezzanine lender would be proud of.

Even the Tasmanian Labor Party offered more assistance than our own peak body.

Just grubs.

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, grs said:

I did ask and you explained your thinking, thank you. I didn't realise we were getting into a public discourse here though. I guess we can agree to disagree. I see the AYF evolving to YA and now AS as being an exceptionally well run sport in AUS, and a great contributor on the international stage with World Sailing. We are now properly structured as a company with one of Australian sport's best constitutions, we have a great board and relationships with (constitutional) members are ace, staff know their purpose and approach it professionally, we're in a financially sound position with responsible budgeting, clubs have access to what they need and are supported, we have helped thousands of people become coaches, instructors or race officials, safety is on point. Learn to sail programs are there. Online website, entry and membership database services are readily available. Assisting clubs and classes with grants and government advocacy. Getting major sailing events into AUS. And more policy positions, such as the change to rule 46 and SailPass, are developed in consultation with clubs than what the internet would like to believe. I'm sorry you've had a couple of bad experiences, but the organisation has come a long way over the last 20 years. Far from dismal performance me thinks, but we don't have to agree.

Delusional at best.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, harrygee said:

 

An efficient parasite does not kill its host.

Great line - great description!

So does anyone on here know anyone that agrees with the RRS 46 prescriptions?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, mccroc said:

So does anyone on here know anyone that agrees with the RRS 46 prescriptions?

No, but I know of a couple of clubs that are content to go along with it.  In one case I don't think any real thought has gone into the matter - that club holds the attitude that if AS makes a rule, the club will comply.  The other club may have undergone a bit more critical analysis, but is constantly chasing membership so hopes it may have a positive spin-off.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

No, but I know of a couple of clubs that are content to go along with it.  In one case I don't think any real thought has gone into the matter - that club holds the attitude that if AS makes a rule, the club will comply.  The other club may have undergone a bit more critical analysis, but is constantly chasing membership so hopes it may have a positive spin-off.

Yeah, the building membership thing is an issue. I have asked my Board a number of specific questions regarding the implementation, and also the policing of the new RRS 46. Will be interesting to see what they say. I don't think more than one or two of the Board even know about it, and its ramifications.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Recidivist said:

That's an awesome set of rose-coloured glasses you've got on!

Well, what else? Whilst I wondered whether there was any point replying with my view, I think you should all be proud of having a national authority or national sport organisation (World Sailing / Sport Australia parlance respectively), that is going from strength to strength.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, grs said:

... I think you should all be proud of having a national authority or national sport organisation (World Sailing / Sport Australia parlance respectively), that is going from strength to strength.

You have missed the point that everyone here is trying to make - AS may indeed be going from strength to strength, but sailing as a sport is not!  AS is thriving at the expense of it's constituent base!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, grs said:

Well, what else? Whilst I wondered whether there was any point replying with my view, I think you should all be proud of having a national authority or national sport organisation (World Sailing / Sport Australia parlance respectively), that is going from strength to strength.

I don't know about that because I'm not sure what it means.

I know I'm proud of being part of a small country based dinghy club that has strong racing fleets and a good vibe.

I'm proud of the fact, entirely as a result of efforts made at the club, we have more or as many women sailing and racing twin wire skiffs at our club than probably exist in the rest of the country (an indictment by the way of the failure of AS as that reflects badly on the state of the FX fleet; and notwithstanding offers, AS has shown no real interest in knowing how we did that).

I'm proud of the fact that when a question was raised as to whether we should split off our skiff fleet because of the crowded waterway, the overwhelming answer was no because our young adult sailors enjoyed the commaradie of the social interaction with the old farts that made up most of the rest of the fleet.

I lament the isolated nature of our Olympic team. I was going to say elitest, but I didn't want to refect badly on the individuals. There is nothing to critize in those I have met. But the existance of the team does little to nothing for sailing in general, even if a contribution to the medal count somehow reflects well on the country.

And a national body going from strength to strength sounds more like an increase in head count than anything else. I ask this as a real question, in what other ways does it show its strength.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

You have missed the point that everyone here is trying to make - AS may indeed be going from strength to strength, but sailing as a sport is not!  AS is thriving at the expense of it's constituent base!

Which point? You wrote "...the performance of AS over the past decade or two is so dismal..." and I thought yeah nah. I think AS is a strong NSO compared to any other in Australia, which is far from a dismal performance.

We can disagree on "thriving at the expense" of its constituents too. Being a member based organisation, we are but a reflection of our constituents. We've got a lot of great sailing going on in AUS. Everyone here should be proud of that too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, grs said:

Whilst I wondered whether there was any point replying with my view

well if no one else is going to pat you on the back you might as well do it yourself, if that makes you feel better.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, grs said:

Well, what else? Whilst I wondered whether there was any point replying with my view, I think you should all be proud of having a national authority or national sport organisation (World Sailing / Sport Australia parlance respectively), that is going from strength to strength.

Glen, your 2 IC working for Australian Sailing as Safety and Regulation Co-ordinator is a principal of a training business offering courses to the public is competition with third party commercial providers.

So the person responsible for the administration of the SSSC scheme is a service provider of the scheme.

Just asking if I have this right.

 

Meet the Team at 27 South Ocean Training

 

Melanie Peasey - Principal

 

Melanie cofounded 27 South with Stacey when they saw a need for sailors in their local area to have access to the Safety and Sea Survival course.

Melanie started sailing in Sabots on the Brisbane River, racing many dinghy classes and ending up sailing 420’s in her teens.  Coming home after working on the Isle of Wight as a sailing instructor she graduated to sailing ‘big boats’ competing in most of the East Coast of Australia’s offshore races. She has now gone back to dinghy sailing, crewing on a Cherub in her mid 40’s.

Melanie has never been far from boats in general, having 20 + years working in ships chandleries, sailing schools, a maritime college and now her full-time role is with Australian Sailing.

She is looking forward to working with instructors Stacey and James to provide a SSS course that is conducted by offshore sailors for offshore sailors.

Melniosunnies.jpg
 

 

 
 

27 South Ocean Training ABN 89 643 716 081
mobile: 0480 364 065
27southtraining@gmail.com
Manly, Queensland. 4179

 

  • Facebook
Australian Sailing square logo.jpg
World Sailing square logo.jpg
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Recidivist said:

You have missed the point that everyone here is trying to make - AS may indeed be going from strength to strength, but sailing as a sport is not!  AS is thriving at the expense of it's constituent base!

Correction - yet again.

SAILING is doing just fine.

Sailboat racing as a sport may well not be. Dunno.

AFAIK by joining an affiliated club you automagically get counted as part of the growth in AS members, yes? Or is there the ability to decline to pay capitation fees to AS and still be a member of an affiliated club?

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, grs said:

 Being a member based organisation, we are but a reflection of our constituents. 

Well done on saying that with a straight face.

It must annoy you that all the AS members who feel disenfranchised and that their voice is not being heard are gathered together here on SA. You should encourage some of the legions of AS members who are satisfied with what they get to post here as well...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Well done on saying that with a straight face.

It must annoy you that all the AS members who feel disenfranchised and that their voice is not being heard are gathered together here on SA. You should encourage some of the legions of AS members who are satisfied with what they get to post here as well...

Glen, last you where a "club orientated organisation"

Your words.

WTF

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, grs said:

Which point? You wrote "...the performance of AS over the past decade or two is so dismal..." and I thought yeah nah. I think AS is a strong NSO compared to any other in Australia, which is far from a dismal performance.

We can disagree on "thriving at the expense" of its constituents too. Being a member based organisation, we are but a reflection of our constituents. We've got a lot of great sailing going on in AUS. Everyone here should be proud of that too.

 

BE39C90B-5DC5-4571-A16D-768350A4B5F5.png

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, grs said:

 

We can disagree on "thriving at the expense" of its constituents too. Being a member based organisation, we are but a reflection of our constituents. 

Glen, isn't this the problem?

AS has as its members, the clubs.

We individuals who may or may not be members of clubs get no say as an individual and yet it is we individuals that have to pay for your very existence. Then to cap it off, AS clearly does not reflect the views of the individuals (if the straw poll on SA is any measure) who actually pay the money to the clubs so that the clubs can affiliate and be members.

it may be before your time but can you answer why individuals don't get a vote. What is AS scared of? What is the stick that AS uses to get the clubs into line?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, DtM said:

it may be before your time but can you answer why individuals don't get a vote. What is AS scared of?

It's simple.

All you have to do is change the Constitution.  I suspect that is where who can vote is defined.

Over to you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh dear Randumb.

So those that have the vote now, the clubs, will vote to give those who want the votes, ,the individuals, the vote.

Especially where the present system works (or maybe not in all cases but certainly for the biggies) for the clubs.

Really !!!  What universe do you live in?

Just so you know in advance, I am not going to waste my time with dealing with your endless shit. I have watched that play out way too many times on these forums.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, DtM said:

Just so you know in advance, I am not going to waste my time with dealing with your endless shit. I have watched that play out way too many times on these forums.

You are where you are because you do not know how to work the system.  I was going to give you some advice, after working in NFP organisations of similar structure, but you can go and fuck yourself.

Q7L.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, grs said:

.We've got a lot of great sailing going on in AUS. Everyone here should be proud of that too.

Goldcoast 2020 - cancelled.

Hobart 2020 - cancelled.

Goldcoast 2021 - as good as cancelled.

 

Go team!

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, grs said:

Well, what else? Whilst I wondered whether there was any point replying with my view, I think you should all be proud of having a national authority or national sport organisation (World Sailing / Sport Australia parlance respectively), that is going from strength to strength.

I just could not help thinking about.......

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

In the meantime....in Enoshima....our AS subs are providing "our" sport with such enthusiastic coverage that the whole of Australia is excitedly unifying behind it. Clearly our youth are benefitting from it and.....yes...that trickle down effect is being felt across this wide brown land so obviously "girt by sea..." Clubs are basking in the "success" of "our" athletes as they perform in classes that fail to produce recognisable fleets in their own countries...except of course the Finn...which is destined to be dropped in favour of that fantastically successful Foiling kite board fleet that remains the backbone of our participation base....so please...stop this petty squabbling and rejoice in the "success" of "our" AS and the ongoing contribution it makes to the grass roots of "our" sport.....

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, DtM said:

What is the stick that AS uses to get the clubs into line?

They have no power over some clubs. RQYS has a clause in their constitution that is in direct conflict with the RRS, yet the so claimed peak body has neither the power nor the will to get them act within the rules. Of course we must remember that RQYS is Australian Sailing (Queensland) landlord. The claim that RQYS can exclude any competitor without giving a reason is why they should not be allowed anywhere near the Olympics. Or any other sanctioned event.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, DtM said:

Glen, isn't this the problem?

AS has as its members, the clubs.

We individuals who may or may not be members of clubs get no say as an individual and yet it is we individuals that have to pay for your very existence. Then to cap it off, AS clearly does not reflect the views of the individuals (if the straw poll on SA is any measure) who actually pay the money to the clubs so that the clubs can affiliate and be members.

it may be before your time but can you answer why individuals don't get a vote. What is AS scared of? What is the stick that AS uses to get the clubs into line?

 Those that actually participate in the sport are not recognised as stakeholders. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

 Those that actually participate in the sport are not recognised as stakeholders. 

And, as I keep pointing out, you boat owners have the power to cure this.

As you don't do anything except complain then AS has no incentive to change.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

And, as I keep pointing out, you boat owners have the power to cure this.

As you don't do anything except complain then AS has no incentive to change.

FKT

How do we change anything at grass roots when the head organisation doesn’t understand the basics of cashflow. We are a very small country club that might get eight mixed class boats of cats and mono’s out on a good day around the cans. We also run a midweek Pacer junior sailing program after school in summer, to which between twenty and thirty kids turn up and over run the club. We love it and to run this we need about ten volunteers so that there are always enough experienced people. This used to be easy, now we need to have enough people with instructor tickets recertified despite most of us doing it for over 20 years. Now we have to book the course instructor in for minimum of six people to be recertified at $500 per participant plus they need to inspect the premises again and certify it as a approved training facility. That’s $3,500 in fees for just the certification to run a sailing intro scheme at a tiny club, the AS sailing insurance doesn’t fully cover our club for this scheme either and that’s another $3000 in insurance we have to pay out, I can go on with other issues but surely if Australian Sailing was interested in grass roots introduction to sailing they would send out an instructor to recertify us during the week at a much reduced price, in the hope that enough of these new kids will go onto eventually paying their AS membership as adults and grow AS

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would they change?

A business with volunteers doing the work and paying for the privilege, while the entitled dream of new obstructions.

What's not to like?

I walked long ago.

Unfortunately, as a life member, I still count as an AS statistic, at the expense of my old club.

Life's too short for this stuff.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, madboutcats said:

How do we change anything at grass roots when the head organisation doesn’t understand the basics of cashflow. We are a very small country club that might get eight mixed class boats of cats and mono’s out on a good day around the cans. We also run a midweek Pacer junior sailing program after school in summer, to which between twenty and thirty kids turn up and over run the club. We love it and to run this we need about ten volunteers so that there are always enough experienced people. This used to be easy, now we need to have enough people with instructor tickets recertified despite most of us doing it for over 20 years. Now we have to book the course instructor in for minimum of six people to be recertified at $500 per participant plus they need to inspect the premises again and certify it as a approved training facility. That’s $3,500 in fees for just the certification to run a sailing intro scheme at a tiny club, the AS sailing insurance doesn’t fully cover our club for this scheme either and that’s another $3000 in insurance we have to pay out, I can go on with other issues but surely if Australian Sailing was interested in grass roots introduction to sailing they would send out an instructor during the week at a much reduced price, in the hope that enough of these new kids will go onto eventually paying their AS membership as adults and grow AS

Disaffiliate the club from AS and stop paying them.

What value are they adding to your club? If the answer is zero or actually negative, why stay inside their embrace?

Would the boats, crew and volunteers disappear if AS disappeared?

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, harrygee said:

Why would they change?

A business with volunteers doing the work and paying for the privilege, while the entitled dream of new obstructions.

What's not to like?

I walked long ago.

Unfortunately, as a life member, I still count as an AS statistic, at the expense of my old club.

Life's too short for this stuff.

One of the reasons I'm not a member of the local clubs. I own a 12m sailboat, I go sailing as & how I please, I have no certifications, no skills and definitely no ability.

Yet somehow I manage to go sailing anyway.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Disaffiliate the club from AS and stop paying them.

What value are they adding to your club? If the answer is zero or actually negative, why stay inside their embrace?

Would the boats, crew and volunteers disappear if AS disappeared?

FKT

Yes it would disappear because public liability is non negotiable to our members running the club, I would love to do without AS but we need a governing body to help us

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, madboutcats said:

Yes it would disappear because public liability is non negotiable to our members running the club, I would love to do without AS but we need a governing body to help us

Well in that case you're fucked so I suggest that you buy your lube in bulk at Costco or wherever so it doesn't hurt as much.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, madboutcats said:

How do we change anything at grass roots when the head organisation doesn’t understand the basics of cashflow. We are a very small country club that might get eight mixed class boats of cats and mono’s out on a good day around the cans. We also run a midweek Pacer junior sailing program after school in summer, to which between twenty and thirty kids turn up and over run the club. We love it and to run this we need about ten volunteers so that there are always enough experienced people. This used to be easy, now we need to have enough people with instructor tickets recertified despite most of us doing it for over 20 years. Now we have to book the course instructor in for minimum of six people to be recertified at $500 per participant plus they need to inspect the premises again and certify it as a approved training facility. That’s $3,500 in fees for just the certification to run a sailing intro scheme at a tiny club, the AS sailing insurance doesn’t fully cover our club for this scheme either and that’s another $3000 in insurance we have to pay out, I can go on with other issues but surely if Australian Sailing was interested in grass roots introduction to sailing they would send out an instructor to recertify us during the week at a much reduced price, in the hope that enough of these new kids will go onto eventually paying their AS membership as adults and grow AS

Agree with all of this.  I was a flag officer at a small club.  We couldn't have afforded instructor certification at full rates so we just didn't go there when running weekly beginner training, based on volunteers with many decades of experience.

All fine, except it kept me awake at night (as the responsible officer) because no doubt, if there'd been an "incident", the first question from the authorities would have been "can we see your certification documentation".

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

13 hours ago, Couta said:

In the meantime....in Enoshima....our AS subs are providing "our" sport...

 

This is incorrect. Absolutely no club or member affiliation fees are used to find any part of Australian Sailing's High Performance programs. 100% of HP funding for Enoshima comes from government grants, sponsors and patrons. Nonetheless, we can be proud of them too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, grs said:

100% of HP funding for Enoshima comes from government grants, sponsors and patrons. Nonetheless, we can be proud of them too.

The sponsors and patrons? Or the government?

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Jason AUS said:

The sponsors and patrons? Or the government?

Well, yes I guess you got me there. But its the OLY sailors we can be proud of. Great stuff, fantastic application of your tax payer dollar. Enriching lives through sport, no less. I've just watched the Men's 470 race 2. Great to see Belcher and Ryan work their way back up through the fleet and get a credible 5th.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is interesting that a number of comments have in their own way reinforced my earlier comment about how AS (or its predecesor) ripped apart club learn to sail programs.

It was something I dealt with at some length in another thread in response to a US sailor who lamented the "deporable state" of Australian Sailing. In my reply I specificially referenced in detail just how the National/State bodies had damaged the clubs, especially the smaller ones and especially their LTS programs. It will be interesting to see how much that aligns with the views and histories of some other commentators

The discussion had some context about whether Olympic Sialing was a benefit or hindrance to the pedistrian sailors, so recognise the context of some of my comments.

Still I thought that went too far, so commented as follows...

 

"Deplorable state of sailing" is perhaps too harsh. Yes, it is not what it used to be when all the old farts who inhabit these threads first started out. But that is not something specific to sailing. Many sports have suffered the same fate.

But there are a couple of things that many feel have done more to damage sailing than helped it.

Much/ most/ all of this can be associated with a broadly defined concept of "Olympic pathways" that seems to predominate the thought process of National bodies.

If one grew up with sailing that was 'club focused', and think that way (as I do), the sense of betrayal and abandonment is all the greater.

Start with learn to sail courses. Traditionally these were run at club level by putting a number of beginners in a suitably docile boat with a more experienced sailor. Forward thinking clubs usually used their intermediate juniors as their in boat trainers (obviously looked over by someone in a motor boat). That provided three benefits in one. It spread the training load, gave the juniors a sense of having a duty to put back into the volunteer club and gave them a sense of confidence and achievement at teaching. And better still the glow it gave the parents of those juniors when a trainee adult went up to the parents and congratulated them on what a fantastic and competent child they'd raised was something to be seen.

But NO said the national body. That's not how we'll do it. [As I understand it] to get our Olympic support money from the Government we need a more structured system than that. So this is what's going to happen (if you want an accredited sailing school) -

  • All instructors and assistant instructors must be accredited by us. Taking into account the training they must receive from us, that will cost you heaps per instructor (so there goes your 'spread the load, train the kids' system)
  • You will use a system where you put kids who've never been in a boat before, kick them off from the beach and tell them to come around a buoy and come back. A great system for a professional instructor wanting to deal with a big class to make money, but hopeless for a club using the old system and indeed a hopeless way of teaching because -
  • It scares a lot of kids witless not to have the comfort of an on board instructor; so you've immediately filtered out a certain part of the possible sailing group
  • It doesn't allow for a club operating in a 4 knot tide or with ten layers of moored boats off their beach.
  • They then pushed for the adoption of the Optimist Dinghy as the boat to be used for this. Something that must have been designed around 1700 (purple font), can't take more than one person (so no sailing with a friend), something where you have to be taught to sail and bail at the same time and something where when you capsize they come up full of water (assuming the scared witless kid doesn't just swim back to the beach). Why? Because its an international class and so offers a better Olympic Pathway. This at a time when many clubs were moving into junior classes with self draining cockpits and that could be sailed one or two up. And the difference is that when these boats capsize - after the first time - the kids love it.

Secondly, this 'pathways' program seeks to drain the clubs of sailing talent to put them in high performance programs. Bottom line is, the top guy goes through for special training, the rest end up as so much cannon fodder; dispirited, no longer tied to their clubs and usually lost to sailing.

Thirdly, there's a sense the bureaucracy all this has created (where the administration was previously slim and somewhat volunteer) now seemingly have a number of KPI's that impact on clubs. The recent requirement that everyone racing in every race must be a member of a club (and thereby affiliated with the National body) was viewed by many as effectively a way of artificially boosting 'membership' to meet KPI's. Much of the mucking about with learn to sail courses one suspects was also KPI driven.

Fourthly, this administration heavy body seems to drain money from clubs without offering anything meaningful back in return.

Some have additional beefs which go to specific incidents, but mine really goes to the way they have pulled clubs apart over the last 25 years. Sure they held 'public meetings' about all this, but completely ignored the many voices like mine that objected to what seemed to be their irrational plans. 

..............................................

I just thought the above was pertenant to the above discussion and indeed, it would even be interesting to have an AS view/ push back on the comments.

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites