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18 hours ago, Rum Monkey said:

if you saw it at a distance whilst in on your boat , wouldnt it look like a nav light?

 

50 minutes ago, Fintho said:

Well yes, but so does a normal flare I suppose

Buuuut, the WA rules state that you can only use them if you also have a PLB/EPIRB on you, so if I see a nav light coming from the same place my chartplotter is saying there's an MOB, I'D start heading over there. And then the light staying on for 10 hours instead of 5 minutes becomes a whole lot more useful.

 

Electronic flares flash in "random" patterns. You will not mistake it for a nav light, but maybe you will think someone is having a disco...

Some will also flash SOS like this one.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fintho said:

Well yes, but so does a normal flare I suppose

Buuuut, the WA rules state that you can only use them if you also have a PLB/EPIRB on you, so if I see a nav light coming from the same place my chartplotter is saying there's an MOB, I'D start heading over there. And then the light staying on for 10 hours instead of 5 minutes becomes a whole lot more useful.

 

It takes you 10 hours to motor to something in visual line of sight? You need to have a diver clean your prop or anyone relying on you to rescue them needs to be pretty good at treading water.

Just joking. We played with these things at a safety conference I went to about 10 years ago. They weren't approved yet but they were very impressive. Not as much fun on new years eve however.

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18 minutes ago, Fintho said:

Some new PLB's are equipped with AIS, or you can get something like this, which lasts for 7 years and appears to be pretty useful particularly for racing

 

https://www.whitworths.com.au/ocean-signal-ais-dsc-personal-man-overboard-locator-device

 

That's not a PLB as far as the safety regs are concerned, you need satellite 406 model, they are VHF only, they won't initiate a search and rescue operation. 

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15 minutes ago, BOI Guy said:

That's not a PLB as far as the safety regs are concerned, you need satellite 406 model, they are VHF only, they won't initiate a search and rescue operation. 

two very different beasts.

For ocean racing, the AIS MOB device is way more useful and they should be mandatory, not PLB's for all crew. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

For ocean racing, the AIS MOB device is way more useful and they should be mandatory, not PLB's for all crew. 

And for that reason, many ocean racers have both. AIS first, then if the boat doesn't turn around/can't find you/you're dying, pull the PLB... We keep ours in bum bags, so that it's not attached to a pfd that you only wear at night, and so you can have it on when you go up on deck off shift to have a piss. They also happen to be good for snacks

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14 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

For ocean racing, the AIS MOB device is way more useful and they should be mandatory, not AND PLB's for all crew. 

 

AIS MOB good for not much when your boat sinks and there is no one else around.

It all depends on your circumstances, PLB for safety Regs makes sense, it always works. AIS in race sailing instructions.

If you sail in crowded waters AIS is probably better, assuming people have their AIS radio on. AIS is best for MOB.

If you need outside assistance PLB all the way.

 

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6 minutes ago, BOI Guy said:

AIS MOB good for not much when your boat sinks and there is no one else around.

That's when the crack that's also in said bum bag gets broken out.

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2 hours ago, Fintho said:

And for that reason, many ocean racers have both. AIS first, then if the boat doesn't turn around/can't find you/you're dying, pull the PLB... We keep ours in bum bags, so that it's not attached to a pfd that you only wear at night, and so you can have it on when you go up on deck off shift to have a piss. They also happen to be good for snacks

 

2 hours ago, BOI Guy said:

AIS MOB good for not much when your boat sinks and there is no one else around.

It all depends on your circumstances, PLB for safety Regs makes sense, it always works. AIS in race sailing instructions.

If you sail in crowded waters AIS is probably better, assuming people have their AIS radio on. AIS is best for MOB.

If you need outside assistance PLB all the way.

 

I agree both is best, but if they are going to mandate only 1, AIS is better. It does depend on the race though. 

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23 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

a 406 epirb/plb is for finding the body

an ais/vhf is for finding your crew that fell over the side and you can test it...

 

The Bavaria 47 "Essence" sank off NZ in a gale in 2019. A wave broke over her and literally squished the hull and popped the glued windows out. The liferaft, dinghy and ships epirb also went west along with the windows. They got off the boat into the water as she went down after about 15 mins.

  One of the crew had a personal Epirb attached to his life jacket and it saved most of them after treading water a few hours, one died 3 survived. They were located by a NZ airforce Orion and dropped a liferaft. So close to a total loss with all hands.

You can get the lat-lon of the epirb from the rescue coordinators pretty quickly.

 

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Well said Mike, AIS and electronic flares wouldn't have saved them.

 I believe NZ is a well served for search and rescue, I would not rely on AIS Beacon around here, not enough boats around.

I would expect a pretty quick response around most of the coast to a PLB distress signal, probably much better than the chance of a boat being nearby picking up an AIS signal and responding to it. They work for land SAR too.

I sail the coast around here quite a bit, often solo, often no other boats in sight for long periods, I don't have AIS either so I won't be responding to any call for help even if you see me, flare might work.

If I set off my PLB I would be surprised if I didn't see a helicopter within an hour.

I understand the views of the US and Europeans who claim AIS is best, they should appreciate that its a bit different sailing around here. 

 

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38 minutes ago, MikeJohns said:

The Bavaria 47 "Essence" sank off NZ in a gale in 2019. A wave broke over her and literally squished the hull and popped the glued windows out. The liferaft, dinghy and ships epirb also went west along with the windows. They got off the boat into the water as she went down after about 15 mins.

  One of the crew had a personal Epirb attached to his life jacket and it saved most of them after treading water a few hours, one died 3 survived. They were located by a NZ airforce Orion and dropped a liferaft. So close to a total loss with all hands.

You can get the lat-lon of the epirb from the rescue coordinators pretty quickly.

 

Yes if the version epirb you have is a gps one that sends the position, much safer
Depends where you are what the outcome for rescue will be.
Satellite gets a 15minute window over you every 100 minutes plus you need to ensure the shore based number they will call to check the epirb owner will answer.

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14 hours ago, Sailabout said:

..................Satellite gets a 15minute window over you every 100 minutes plus you need to ensure the shore based number they will call to check the epirb owner will answer.

That's changed a lot over the decade or two, there are now geostationary receivers that cover close to 90% of the planet. Satellite Response is now practically instant outside of the polar regions.

Crew should be briefed to only activate their personal epirb when its clear visual contact has been lost.

An emergency call center will respond with the beacon LatLon as well as working with you until rescue is accomplished.  Even if it's an unregistered beacon.

Then not only the calling vessel but other craft and aircraft will be coordinated externally regardless.

Consider a dissmasted vessel with crew overboard or even an inverted vessel; keel-less mono or inverted multi.

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, MikeJohns said:

That's changed a lot over the decade or two, there are now geostationary receivers that cover close to 90% of the planet. Satellite Response is now practically instant outside of the polar regions.

Crew should be briefed to only activate their personal epirb when its clear visual contact has been lost.

An emergency call center will respond with the beacon LatLon as well as working with you until rescue is accomplished.  Even if it's an unregistered beacon.

Then not only the calling vessel but other craft and aircraft will be coordinated externally regardless.

Consider a dissmasted vessel with crew overboard or even an inverted vessel; keel-less mono or inverted multi.

 

 

 

A geo stationary satellite is only going to work for a gps enhanced epirb as below...

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtEpirb

406 MHz GEOSAR System

The major advantage of the 406 MHz low earth orbit system is the provision of global Earth coverage using a limited number of polar-orbiting satellite.  Coverage is not continuous, however, and it may take up to a couple of hours for an EPIRB alert to be received.  To overcome this limitation, COSPAS-SARSAT has 406 MHz EPIRB repeaters aboard several geostationary satellites.

Note that GEOSAR cannot detect 121.5 MHz alerts, nor can it route unregistered 406 MHz alerts to a rescue authority.  GEOSAR cannot calculate the location of any alert it receives, unless the beacon has an integral GPS receiver.

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Just a quick question for the brains trust regarding Australian sail numbers.

If a boat has had a sail number since launch but any club or organisation affiliation or involvement ceased a few years ago...Under new ownership, that Sail number was never transferred or renewed.. Is there any way to preserve that boats sail number use(for nostalgic purposes) other that paying Australian Sailing $400+ dollar+ annuals? 
 

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8 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

A geo stationary satellite is only going to work for a gps enhanced epirb as below...

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtEpirb

406 MHz GEOSAR System

The major advantage of the 406 MHz low earth orbit system is the provision of global Earth coverage using a limited number of polar-orbiting satellite.  Coverage is not continuous, however, and it may take up to a couple of hours for an EPIRB alert to be received.  To overcome this limitation, COSPAS-SARSAT has 406 MHz EPIRB repeaters aboard several geostationary satellites.

Note that GEOSAR cannot detect 121.5 MHz alerts, nor can it route unregistered 406 MHz alerts to a rescue authority.  GEOSAR cannot calculate the location of any alert it receives, unless the beacon has an integral GPS receiver.

Sure....  obviously it's a GPS personal Epirb required for an effective  MOB device .  They are around $350 here from the retailers.

I note that it has to be registered, always should be anyway. Amsa here had indicated previously that even unregistered with but with correct country code registration was routed to them.

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7 minutes ago, MikeJohns said:

Sure....  obviously it's a GPS personal Epirb required for an effective  MOB device .  They are around $350 here from the retailers.

I note that it has to be registered, always should be anyway. Amsa here had indicated previously that even unregistered with but with correct country code registration was routed to them.

Sure but they are going to check on the ownership and any maydays before they send a frigate to find an epirb that fell over the side. Thats true worldwide, too many false alarms.

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/1864801/search-widens-hong-kong-yacht-sailing-philippines

Here is a sad loss, one epirb ping, not registered ( although that was unlucky as they had just sent the docs in) so it was ignored.
Search only started when the vessel didnt arrive.

The punters forget how important the shore based contact is from your epirb registration

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19 minutes ago, FixinGit said:

Just a quick question for the brains trust regarding Australian sail numbers.

If a boat has had a sail number since launch but any club or organisation affiliation or involvement ceased a few years ago...Under new ownership, that Sail number was never transferred or renewed.. Is there any way to preserve that boats sail number use(for nostalgic purposes) other that paying Australian Sailing $400+ dollar+ annuals? 
 

Sail numbers are issued by clubs. If there isn't an existing boat with those numbers at your club its all yours. If you aren't a member of a club who gives a fuck what your sail number is? Put anything you like on your sails.

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18 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

Sure but they are going to check on the ownership and any maydays before they send a frigate to find an epirb that fell over the side. Thats true worldwide

Not in this part of the world. They will attempt to confirm its validity but will go ahead any way.

If you set off you MOB AIS 100 miles off the coast around here, good luck to you, the flashing lights might entertain you for a while but not much else is going to happen.

From the RCCNZ

“In relation to response times RCCNZ will respond to any beacon within our area of responsibility, regardless of its country of origin, once we have the beacon alert.

"All beacon responses plans should be commenced within ten minutes of receiving the initial alert."

Another valid point to your input:

"There is a lot of misinformation put out (in NZ) about response times to beacons in the NZ registry and other ‘foreign’ registries. I consider this to verge on criminal misinformation"

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1 hour ago, BOI Guy said:

Not in this part of the world. They will attempt to confirm its validity but will go ahead any way.

If you set off you MOB AIS 100 miles off the coast around here, good luck to you, the flashing lights might entertain you for a while but not much else is going to happen.

From the RCCNZ

“In relation to response times RCCNZ will respond to any beacon within our area of responsibility, regardless of its country of origin, once we have the beacon alert.

"All beacon responses plans should be commenced within ten minutes of receiving the initial alert."

Another valid point to your input:

"There is a lot of misinformation put out (in NZ) about response times to beacons in the NZ registry and other ‘foreign’ registries. I consider this to verge on criminal misinformation"

Its a system built for shipping so any epirb anywhere in the world gets action but as has happened in many cases a short ping then nothing will result in the background check, authorities would be silly not to do this.
A non gps epirb will require several satellite passes to fix a reasonable position.
A gps enabled one hopefully sends a fix so they have a starting point.

Read this from NOAA, 96% of alerts are false.

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2 hours ago, Sailabout said:

the phone must answer to confirm that status

You are wrong, how do I get that through to you? 

I quoted a direct answer to a direct question to the rescue coordination centre here, who are the receivers of the alert.

They will respond, phone call or not, to any alert in their area. They don't respond to US area alerts, they don't respond to Philippine area alerts, how those areas respond is up to them apparently. None of them are coming to your MOB AIS.

Even then you seem to be talking shit, this is from the US coastguard:

"Search and rescue personnel begin responding immediately to every activation of a distress beacon."

You are spreading dangerous mis-information

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1 hour ago, Livia said:

Thanks for posting that Livia. 

I thought MJ comments were quite restrained.  What I don't understand was why GRS was acting as a party's representative in the initial hearing - was he crewing on the boat in question or something?  In any case, given his position within AS, I would expect that he would be very cautious about descending into the fray. 

But maybe as a "knowall from Sydney" he doesn't feel constrained ...

 

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Clearly the Appeal Panel did not think much of the evidence.

I hear Mr Jones has resigned from Australian Sailing

Another gain for the sport, not.

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5 hours ago, BOI Guy said:

You are wrong, how do I get that through to you? 

I quoted a direct answer to a direct question to the rescue coordination centre here, who are the receivers of the alert.

They will respond, phone call or not, to any alert in their area. They don't respond to US area alerts, they don't respond to Philippine area alerts, how those areas respond is up to them apparently. None of them are coming to your MOB AIS.

Even then you seem to be talking shit, this is from the US coastguard:

"Search and rescue personnel begin responding immediately to every activation of a distress beacon."

You are spreading dangerous mis-information

Nice to know NZ who have one of the largest RCC areas on the planet and zero false alarms dispatch ships and planes to every epirb signal
I think you are confusing the difference between react to every call immediatley ( so does the every RCC worldwide) with send a rescue team.

Are you guaranteeing rescue within a time limit?
You are spreading dangerous mis-information

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12 hours ago, FixinGit said:

Just a quick question for the brains trust regarding Australian sail numbers.

If a boat has had a sail number since launch but any club or organisation affiliation or involvement ceased a few years ago...Under new ownership, that Sail number was never transferred or renewed.. Is there any way to preserve that boats sail number use(for nostalgic purposes) other that paying Australian Sailing $400+ dollar+ annuals? 
 

Had wondered about that.

how the heck do they jystify charging stupid amounts of money, for you to register your sail number.

My boat has a sail number, I'm quite happy with it, but be buggered if I am paying to "register" it

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15 minutes ago, JasonL said:

Had wondered about that.

how the heck do they jystify charging stupid amounts of money, for you to register your sail number.

My boat has a sail number, I'm quite happy with it, but be buggered if I am paying to "register" it

You are in Qld, just do what you want.

No system here

 

NSW YA did run a register but when AS took that over you got the stupid fees.

Just ignore them.

Just another example of AS cunt conduct.

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On 10/12/2021 at 9:47 AM, LB 15 said:

Peter H is commodore for life. If you PM me I can give you his number.

Tried PM'ng you, was not able to send a PM.

i think I can get a number for him from a chap in the timber business.

another "club" i was wondering about, also, was Pete's Yacht Club Bilgola NSW.

these are in the lowest AS fee banded  fee clubs.

the club I'm at , are grumbling about the fee increases,  its a small 30 member) group of 60-80 year olds that want nothing to do with AS,  dont use them,  just like doing Social sails under colregs, we only have two "young'uns" that are interested in saili racing with other clubs, the "old guys" seem to think being part of AS is a bit of a woftam.

 

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6 hours ago, Livia said:

Clearly the Appeal Panel did not think much of the evidence.

I hear Mr Jones has resigned from Australian Sailing

Another gain for the sport, not.

It’s officially time to buy a powerboat...

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I recently observed a very prominent rules expert tell a sailor - who is a very active and passionate sailor "to stop wasting our time" when a request for redress fell apart in 30 seconds. I'm pleased to know that the "guidelines" can be deemed just that if done professionally and conversationally - and to someone who should know better.

Funnily enough I don't think I have done another hearing since.

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7 hours ago, JasonL said:

Tried PM'ng you, was not able to send a PM.

i think I can get a number for him from a chap in the timber business.

another "club" i was wondering about, also, was Pete's Yacht Club Bilgola NSW.

these are in the lowest AS fee banded  fee clubs.

the club I'm at , are grumbling about the fee increases,  its a small 30 member) group of 60-80 year olds that want nothing to do with AS,  dont use them,  just like doing Social sails under colregs, we only have two "young'uns" that are interested in saili racing with other clubs, the "old guys" seem to think being part of AS is a bit of a woftam.

 

Sorry Jason, I will clean out my PM's. I get a lot of 'Fan' mail you see...

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Participants being bullied and sued over a humorous video, Flag officers using their position to conduct personal vendettas against members, clubs claiming that their constitution trumps the RRS, the list goes on.

I am out, this sport is fucked.

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16 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Participants being bullied and sued over a humorous video, Flag officers using their position to conduct personal vendettas against members, clubs claiming that their constitution trumps the RRS, the list goes on.

I am out, this sport is fucked.

Come sail toys boats LB. That last weekend away at Units pub with Deano and Tubby was one of the funniest weekends of my life. There's still a few dick heads around but they seems to be a healthy amount of ridicule thrown at them if they start causing a fuss. 

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34 minutes ago, Abbo said:

Come sail toys boats LB. That last weekend away at Units pub with Deano and Tubby was one of the funniest weekends of my life. There's still a few dick heads around but they seems to be a healthy amount of ridicule thrown at them if they start causing a fuss. 

Ok. I will do bow.

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9 hours ago, Jason AUS said:

It’s officially time to buy a powerboat...

 

4 hours ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

AS lay claim to looking after those too if you’re at a club!

Mate, 

2 clubs in SE Queensland have a lot of power boats that log race and the power boats members in both clubs told AS to stick it were the sun don't shine 20 plus years ago and haven't paid any fees to AS for years. 

 

Pulpit

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10 hours ago, Livia said:

You are in Qld, just do what you want.

No system here

 

NSW YA did run a register but when AS took that over you got the stupid fees.

Just ignore them.

Just another example of AS cunt conduct.

Have to agree with this. The clubs that allowed to have their own prefix - A, MH etc, can require a new owner to remove the prefix, but that's about it. It is interesting looking the AS list of sail numbers to see how many have old owner's names, or none at all. I sail on a 1932 classic, and we use the sail number we believe it originally had - paying no fees to AS.

My advice would be to just keep using whatever number is on your sails - unless the previous owner wants to keep it.

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Just picked the sail nos I wanted, looked up the AS site, but saw the owner who had the sail number had died and boat no longer racing

It is no it like the list gets updated

 

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3 hours ago, Abbo said:

Come sail toys boats LB. That last weekend away at Units pub with Deano and Tubby was one of the funniest weekends of my life. There's still a few dick heads around but they seems to be a healthy amount of ridicule thrown at them if they start causing a fuss. 

So you’re saying Randumb and his friends are there? 

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6 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Volunteer abuse

 

14 hours ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

So what started as a frivolous waste of a few volunteers time in Hobart became a significant frivolous waste of many volunteers time around the world. I suppose that’s one way to get AS on the map.

I know that this wasn't exactly the point that Octopissy was trying to make ...

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

In two words- sum up everything that is wrong about the sport in Australia.

I will start.

Mould Eleven.

Australian Sailing

I win!

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22 hours ago, Recidivist said:

Thanks for posting that Livia. 

I thought MJ comments were quite restrained.  What I don't understand was why GRS was acting as a party's representative in the initial hearing - was he crewing on the boat in question or something?  In any case, given his position within AS, I would expect that he would be very cautious about descending into the fray. 

But maybe as a "knowall from Sydney" he doesn't feel constrained ...

 

Why on earth would GRS file a complaint with RYCT?  Is he so thin skinned? Can he take no criticism/the truth?

Is the next step to have Mr Jones banned for life by ArSe? Without a hearing of course.

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49 minutes ago, DtM said:

Why on earth would GRS file a complaint with RYCT?  Is he so thin skinned? Can he take no criticism/the truth?

Is the next step to have Mr Jones banned for life by ArSe? Without a hearing of course.

put it on youtube and let the public decide

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3 hours ago, DtM said:

Why on earth would GRS file a complaint with RYCT?  Is he so thin skinned? Can he take no criticism/the truth?

Is the next step to have Mr Jones banned for life by ArSe? Without a hearing of course.

Are they currently drafting and fast tracking a retrospective ‘AS Staff Protection Policy’ to protect those Self Entitled Staff from those pesky volunteers and members ?Word is any minimum penalty is 2 X Life Time Bans to be served back to back not concurrent.

Seriously his position is totally untenable.Definitely needs jump before he is pushed.

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49 minutes ago, (p)Irate said:

Any coincidence that the website used to create the Matt Allen video is now offline? Unless it's just my dodgy locked down Far South Tasmania ADSL.

https://www.captiongenerator.com/make-a-hitler-reacts-video

 

ok, tried it but fails and says the ssl config is not compliant with cloudfare who are presenting that site in my region
Server is in San Francisco

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16 hours ago, DtM said:

Why on earth would GRS file a complaint with RYCT?  Is he so thin skinned? Can he take no criticism/the truth?

Reminds me of the old saying...

"It is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

What has this complaint about injudicious comments achieved other than to bring the matter to the attention of a much, much wider audience?

Nobody seems to be disputing the accuracy of the observations, only the lack of judgement in just when/where they were made.

FKT

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22 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Volunteer abuse

The delusions run deep in this cult don't they? Almost as big a lie as Trumps stolen election.  1. There was no abuse. 2. Your definition of volunteer is pretty loose if you include those parties that allege being abused. 3 There has never been an official hearing over this alleged abuse where all parties have been granted a fair hearing so  it is an entirely untested allegation. 4. The alleged abuser is one of the greatest volunteers the club has ever had, there are very few that can compare. 5. One of the allegedly abused  volunteers has been found guilty of assaulting a woman with a chair and has been expelled from the club. Puts a tiny dent in the credibility of the accusations wouldn't you say? Intelligent folks have drawn their own conclusions. The cult members are rabidly clinging to their version of events.

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18 hours ago, DtM said:

Why on earth would GRS file a complaint with RYCT?  Is he so thin skinned? Can he take no criticism/the truth?

Is the next step to have Mr Jones banned for life by ArSe? Without a hearing of course.

Perhaps he's a cuck and gets off on the humiliation? 

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I see from an update from Mark Hipgrave on his GoFundMe page (about the ongoing Matt Allen campaign to have him (MH) banned from the sport for life) that AS have been up to more shitfuckery in that matter also.  

WTF is going on in that "organisation"?


 

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I think there is more to the RTYC allegations than meet the eye.  It looks like there is some deep resentment held against outsiders in Tas.

How can to independent committees organised by World Sailing come up with such differing outcomes.  Nothing in the two findings were even close to agreeing.  Both from WS, so which one actually got it right.  Put your sharp biases of GRS aside for a while and re read the findings.

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20 minutes ago, trt131 said:

I think there is more to the RTYC allegations than meet the eye.  It looks like there is some deep resentment held against outsiders in Tas.

How can to independent committees organised by World Sailing come up with such differing outcomes.  Nothing in the two findings were even close to agreeing.  Both from WS, so which one actually got it right.  Put your sharp biases of GRS aside for a while and re read the findings.

Not really across all the players here with a few decades away from the sport.I thought the reference to ‘GRS’ was an abbreviation for Gender Reassignment Surgery.

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33 minutes ago, trt131 said:

I think there is more to the RTYC allegations than meet the eye.  It looks like there is some deep resentment held against outsiders in Tas.

How can to independent committees organised by World Sailing come up with such differing outcomes.  Nothing in the two findings were even close to agreeing.  Both from WS, so which one actually got it right.  Put your sharp biases of GRS aside for a while and re read the findings.

So how come you get to have two goes at Mr Jones.

You make a complaint to RYCT under its Constitution.

Then you also make the complaint under Reg 32.

Completely different regimes.

Yet the evidence before one becomes evidence before the other.

Something very wrong there.

Contrast the "Rumble in Rocky" bar fight.

The OA start a RRS 69 investigation on the complaint of the OA officer.

An investigator and a Panel are appointed to hear it.

Investigation begins and statements taken.

Then it looks like the outcome might be embarrassing to some people.

The OA and AS stop the RRS 69 proceeding and it is never concluded.

The OA deals with only some of it members involved in house under its Constitution.

Surely it has to one or the other, you can't shop until you get the right answer.

But apparently you can if you work for Australian Sailing.

 

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1 hour ago, trt131 said:

I think there is more to the RTYC allegations than meet the eye.  It looks like there is some deep resentment held against outsiders in Tas.

How can to independent committees organised by World Sailing come up with such differing outcomes.  Nothing in the two findings were even close to agreeing.  Both from WS, so which one actually got it right.  Put your sharp biases of GRS aside for a while and re read the findings.

No deep resentment of outsiders at all, but a frustration with those who come from outside and act like this ..

 

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14 minutes ago, (p)Irate said:

No deep resentment of outsiders at all, but a frustration with those who come from outside and act like this ..

 

Yeah I watched that. He's got some points, I'd agree. But the flip side is, what he's saying is nobody who moves to an area has the right to change things that the existing residents like.

That's a pretty difficult position to justify really depending on what it is. Noise & lights - pffft. Suck it up, they were there first. Possible water pollution affecting downstream users is another thing altogether IMO. But first you need to prove it's happening. And I do wonder what a pig farmer does about keeping his pig shit out of the environment.

The fish farming biz overall is a whole different and big can of worms. A lot of the same stuff was said about the 'sustainable' forestry biz. And look where that went. The fish farms are using the Channel and bays as their personal waste disposal system. They fucked up Macquarie Harbour to the point where even the other fish farmers started screaming.

I've been here for 24 years. My GF is probably 5th or 6th generation Tasmanian at least. I know my place though - I'm a mainlander blow-in. Don't care.

FKT

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9 hours ago, Abbo said:

The delusions run deep in this cult don't they? 

Jesus Ab, steady on, you are going to choke on LB’s cock at this rate.

We wouldn’t want that , as we so enjoy your illuminating posts.

Nah, just joking.

Please continue …… dance monkey dance.

 

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45 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Please continue …… dance monkey dance.

 

I'm putting you on ignore just for reminding me of that god awful song! :lol:

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10 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Jesus Ab, steady on, you are going to choke on LB’s cock at this rate.

We wouldn’t want that , as we so enjoy your illuminating posts.

Nah, just joking.

Please continue …… dance monkey dance.

 

Is that why you did that double take and turned on your heal and virtually ran when you saw me at the club yesterday?

You had the same look on your face as Macbeth when he saw the Forrest move.

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On 10/18/2021 at 5:20 AM, LB 15 said:

Is that why you did that double take and turned on your heal and virtually ran when you saw me at the club yesterday?

You had the same look on your face as Macbeth when he saw the Forrest move.

For me to continue to troll I need more information. 

………. turned on your “HEAL “  WTF

What club are we talking? Surely not RQ as I thought you had done a runner from there.

Unless you have taken up golf the chances of our paths ever crossing near any club are very slim.

Time to have another guess.

Who doesn’t like a good game?

Bwahaha

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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